How We Decide if a Marketing Tool is Worth Using

Transcript

Fractured Stacks And False Promises

Zac 0:00

Deciding which marketing tools are actually worth your time isn't easy. We should know we've spent time simplifying our own stack and cutting platforms that overpromised and underdelivered. In this episode, we're breaking down how we evaluate new tools, red flags to watch out for, and how to decide what's truly worth using.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Well, hey, welcome to another episode of Cocktails, Tangents, and Answers. I am Rich and this is Zach. We are uh coming to you from a morning recording. We usually do these in the afternoon, Zach. Morning is killing me, but I got I got my coffee and my branded cup going.

Zac 0:38

I got my matcha, so I'm good too.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Yeah. Uh so today we're talking about um systems that don't overwhelm and the tools that you use. This is kind of a follow-up to last week's episode. So um a lot of people don't have issues because they don't have technology. They have technology and a lot of technology.

Zac 0:59

Probably too much.

Cocktail Interlude: The Blinker

SPEAKER_00 1:00

The marketing stack, like fragments, right? Like it's just like, there's a piece over here and a piece over here, and a piece over here, and a piece over here. And sometimes you need that, right? You can't get absolutely everything in one. Like, I was talking to a client the other day, a new onboarding, and they're frustrated with HubSpot's social media reporting because they're used to Sprout Social. And it's like, yeah, Sprout is amazing at that social media reporting. HubSpot is not quite there yet. Um, but give them feedback, like they'll get there eventually. Um, so yeah, so let's talk about like how you figure out if a tool adds value or if it's just gonna frustrate the heck out of your team. Um, some mistakes people make when adopting new platforms, and why the best systems are often the simplest ones. So sometimes having all of those options isn't really the greatest. Simpler can be better.

Zac 1:53

Less is more, as they say.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Yes, less is more. I feel like we're saying that a lot these days, especially with, like you said, with our own systems. Like we've gone through this as well. Like, I don't want 400 tech companies like in our stuff. Like, let's thin it down. So we'll talk about that. But first, we gotta get to a cocktail, right?

Zac 2:13

Yes, the blinker. So uh if you're in Gen Z. Is this as in turn signal like blinker or there's another term for blinker too, if you're if you're younger, but I won't explain that right now. Um, this drink was first printed in 1934. Uh, it's surprisingly potent and very refreshing. So modern renditions have tried to twist into the shape of a traditional sour, but it's more of sort of a greyhound highball, highball. Um we recommend using a decent potent rye and then a homemade grenadine to make this the best it can be. And that's straight from punchdrink.com. So they recommend doing that. But uh yeah, this is a simple one, but definitely one that I would like to try. So if you want to explain what's in it, how to make it.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Sure. But first, um, you won't say it. I'm gonna look up and you'll have to tell me which one of these. So there's multiple definitions for blinker. You're talking about the one with the vape pen, right? Yeah, what you're referring to. So yeah, it's basically inhaling from a pen until the indicator light blinks, um, which is new to me. I don't smoke, I don't vape. Um I don't intend to. But um, the other one is like it can be somebody, this is better for this episode. Somebody who has a tendency to overlook important details or become too narrowly focused.

Zac 3:36

That's perfect.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

So that is from um, I don't know, from someplace. It's some slang meaning that's out there. Um, and then it's like, you know, there's also just, you know, your turn signal um or a blinking bulb. Or some people call a light switch a blinker. Did you know that? Like in some countries, it's called a I feel like that's an English thing, probably, or Australia. We'll have to ask Megan if it's an Australia thing, but yeah, you know some blinkers.

Zac 3:59

Some people call a TV remote a clicker, and that's kind of what that feels like.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Well, and they used to be so first of all, they used to be attached to the TV with a cord, they weren't cordless. And when you pushed them, they made a loud clicking sound.

Zac 4:13

Like so it made sense.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, it was real like it was uh like if you ever use one of those dog-like um behavior toys that cli makes a loud click. It was it was literally like that. Um, and then when they had the infrared remotes, everything was like, oh, it's so crazy, but it still clicked. All right, anyway. How do you make this? This is not my drink. So two ounces of rye, you lost me there, but I know a lot of people love rye. You're a fan. Um, so you start there, three ounces of grapefruit juice, one ounce of grenadine, and you garnish it with a grapefruit twist. Um, so you can have a really nice color on this one too. For a whiskey drink, you don't get um, there's not always a lot of color. They're usually very brown. Um but that grenadine's gonna give you a splash of color. So you put everything except your garnish, of course, into a cocktail shaker filled with ice. Um, I mean, you can throw your garnish in there. It's just stupid. Like it's just weird. Um, so you're gonna want to shake that until it's chilled. It's about 15 seconds or until your hand is too cold to hold your uh your shaker. Um, strain it into a chilled coop glass. We are on a coop glass run right now, Zach.

Zac 5:14

Yeah, I know. We're also on an easy shakeable cocktails run.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Mm-hmm. Yeah, these are much simpler. Like three ingredients shake it, pour it, garnish it, drink it. Done. Uh twist a piece of grapefruit zest over the drink and top into the glass. So you want to get that, that's why you don't shake your zest, right? Because you get the oil out. You want to twist it and put the oil right on top. Um, and uh yeah, drop it into the glass and then enjoy. So, I mean, aside from the rye, I like this. I would probably just replace the rye with like vodka or gin, and it you could do the same thing. It's just a greyhound, right? So nice. I need to I need to probably have people over because I always feel weird like making my own craft cocktail for just me. Well, me and the dogs, but they can't drink it. Um but I love using my coupe glasses, like I love our coupe glasses, they're so cute. Um but anyway.

Zac 6:10

Should test out some of these recipes and see what other people think.

Defining The Problem Before Demos

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah, 100%. You know what we need to do? We need to do, if we can get it together, a recipe episode where we get together and actually like try them all, make the drinks and try them. Like that would be a fun one. We could just step away from marketing and just like do some day drinking. Yeah. All right. Well, should we take a quick break and get back into the episode?

Zac 6:34

Let's do it. We're back.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

All right, yeah, we're back. Um, so you're evaluating tools, Zach. Like how do you how do you even make that happen?

Zac 6:55

So start by asking yourself the question, what is this tool supposed to solve, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

What's our problem?

Zac 7:02

Oftentimes as marketers, I think we're oversold a lot of tools and we're thrown into we're like barraged by this new AI tool, this new marketing tool will save you hours every day. And it's getting to the point where it's like tools are becoming super niche and specialized, and you don't necessarily need those kind of tools, right? Also, like tool adoptions should start with a problem, not a demo. You shouldn't be demoing a tool and then being like, oh, this could be great for us. You should already have a problem in mind that that tool will solve because otherwise it could just end up creating more problems for you, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Yeah, I have that issue because I like the cool new shiny tech. Um, I'm a self this is actually from Modern Family a while ago with Phil, but I'm a definitely a premature adopter. Like I'm not just an early adopter. I adopt before anybody should actually be using the thing. Um, and I usually don't get frustrated because I know what I'm getting into. But yeah, like there are certain things that like a demo seems really great. I actually, great example, like our corporate cards are through our payroll vendor, but that's like one big software tool that we've got a whole bunch of stuff in. And I was looking at another one because I don't like how they sync to QuickBooks and like, you know, all of that. And so I was looking at this thing and I asked them in the beginning, like, hey, does this sync to QuickBooks like a real credit card? Like there's a credit card like Ledger, the transactions come in, I match them and reconcile them. Yep, yep, yep, 100% from the salesperson, 100%. Get on the demo. So I'm like, okay, I'll do a demo because like if I can, that's my one problem, is it's I have to manually go to this other tool to push those transactions to QuickBooks, where like our Amex just comes into QuickBooks every day, like four times a day, I think. So on the demo, and we get in there, and I'm like, hey, what you're showing me is I have to go to your website to manually push these over. And he's like, Well, yeah, but you just check them all that are approved and push them over. And I'm like, that's exactly what I'm doing today. Like, and I'm like, so do they go into a credit card ledger? And he's like, No, they just go into your general ledger. Like, you don't have to do anything with them. And I'm like, Yeah, that's not how I want this to work. I want it to work like a credit card. And he's like, Oh, and I'm like, your salesperson said it works like a credit card. And then he started bashing the salesperson. I'm like, you know what? I'm done. Like, it's just starting to get like tense. So yeah, like I knew my problem, but then I was lied to before the demo. And then I got on the demo and was like, oh, this sucks.

Zac 9:24

And a lot of meetings can go like that too. Like they a lot of overpromises, and then like if you're not careful and you don't ask the right questions, you could run into a lot of tools that underdeliver and don't do the things that they promised you it would do. So it's really important to know what problem you're trying to solve because if you don't, you get caught. You get caught not you can get caught with a tool that doesn't do exactly what you want to do.

Sales Hype Vs. Reality Check

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, you're paying for something you don't need and is it working for you? I think the other piece to that is like trendy and popular. So AI is all over the place. I don't know how many ads you get. I get at least 10 a day for like we've got a suite of AI agents that will run your business for you, fire your agency, use our marketing AI tools. And those are really trendy, really popular. I have tested a few of them out. Um, I usually wait until I get like a hell of a deal on them. So I got like like Sintra AI is one of them. They have these cute little characters who do stuff for you. And I'm like, I'm gonna try it. Like, I want to test it and play with it. And it's not bad. Um, but I also waited until it was like it was like$69.99 for the year to try it out. And I'm like, okay, I'll like I'll spend$70 for the year. But there's just so many of those. Um, and AI can go off the rails. Like Google's AI goes off the rails with Google Ads sometimes. Um, so yeah, you've got to kind of watch what's trendy and popular and new. This is not an area to be a premature adopter. Um, an early adopter, like, like like I said, you know, I'm trying these things, but I'm not using them in my day-to-day. I'm trying them with, you know, my old consultancy that I had that still has a website, still has email. I'm not using it. It's not going to anybody. Um, just trying to see what it would create. And some stuff is really good and some stuff is just really terrible. Like really, really terrible.

Zac 11:17

So I think with that point, it's like if you don't have a problem that you're solving or you don't know what problem you're solving, don't go into a meeting blind and don't chase trendy tools, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Mm-hmm. I think the other thing is look at your existing tools and see what you've got there. So, like, and we talk about HubSpot a ton. So, you know, a lot of people who come into HubSpot are using Calendly. And, you know, I've had one onboarding recently where they were like, yeah, we're just gonna stick with Calendly. And I'm like, well, tell me why. And they had a they want to take payments through PayPal on the link. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm like, HubSpot will take payments, but not through PayPal on the link. There's a third-party integration that'll do that, and blah, blah, blah. And he's like, Yeah, it's already too complicated. And I'm like, okay, so aside from that, he said, we have 18 different types of meetings and they have logical flow on forms depending on what a person chooses from the and I'm like, yeah, just stick with Calendly because I don't have time to migrate that. I'm like, if you want to migrate it, we can, because you're paying for a tool that's technically duplicative. Um, but understanding kind of what the reason is, and for that one, you know, they had a really good reason to stick with that tool. You know, we're still using BuzzSprout. We love BuzzSprout. Shout out to Buzz Sprout. You could advertise with us that maybe that'll keep you. Um, but um, you know, HubSpot has their podcast tool and it's in beta and it's not perfect. And our big problem is the import leaves a bunch of HTML in the description. And so we've got to go pull that out and all that. So, like, but could we like dump a tool that's costing, I think, like 30 bucks a month and move over to HubSpot? Yeah, we could. Um, but right now the cost of entry for that is a little bit too high for us.

Zac 13:00

Well, and that goes to our next point, too, is whether a tool reduces or adds complexity. The people that uh wanted to use Calendy, Calendly instead of HubSpot, HubSpot would have just added complexity for them, right? And um, sometimes keeping existing tools rather than adding a new tool is way better. And like you said with HubSpot's podcast, like if HubSpot's podcasts were in a place where we could use them, we would probably not use BuzzSprout just because it would reduce a lot of the complexity and save us costs, even though it's$30 a month, that still adds up.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Yep. And uh I think the other thing there is like the functionality, right? So um Apple is gonna roll out video podcasts with the next updates of iOS and Mac OS and all of those. Um so they're pushing video podcasts to their podcast tool. So will HubSpot push a video podcast? We'd have to look into that. And will they support Apple's video podcasts immediately? Where something like BuzzSprout, which is an industry leader and only does basically only does publishing of your like distribution of your podcast episodes, they're probably gonna be on it pretty fast because I think BuzzSprout already pushes video to YouTube podcasts, don't they?

Zac 14:10

Yeah, they push the audio version.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Oh, the audio version, but not the video version.

Zac 14:14

Not the video version.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Okay, but so if they don't do video for Apple, we could, you know?

Zac 14:18

Yeah. And it's interesting too because the software we use to record all our episodes, Riverside now is doing podcast hosting as well. And I think they push videos straight to YouTube, but they also do live streams where we can live stream to YouTube, Facebook, and stuff like that. So a lot of these tools are adding new things, but I mean we're still sticking with BuzzSprout at the for the moment and probably HubSpot eventually.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

It's inertia though, right? Like because we've got so many episodes in BuzzSprout already, and like it's easy to just hold them there. And that's where I think you've got reducing and adding complexity is sort of twofold, right? So there's the ongoing, does it make it more complex or simple? But then there's the migration to that tool from what you're using or the setup of that tool. Can you absorb that complexity right now? And honestly, where our business has been right now, I don't think we could absorb it today. Second half of the year, we probably have some bandwidth to to take that on. But our first half of the year is is really full already. Yeah. So yeah, it's um it's interesting to see like how that works.

Zac 15:22

Yeah. And I mean, we've been like we kind of mentioned earlier, we've been, specifically you, Rich, have been uh reducing our tools in our stack a lot just because there's a lot of tools that we were underutilizing or maybe not using to their fullest capacity. And taking those away really like helped kind of make us focus in on the tools we have and use those to their fullest capacity.

Trendy AI And Premature Adoption

SPEAKER_00 15:50

And a lot of that is um administratively for the company, right? I look at that big time, but I also look at just what we do on our day-to-day and how you guys are using things. So, you know, we looked at whether we could do project management in HubSpot, and there's a third-party tool that does it. It's possible, you need an enterprise suite. We have an enterprise, you know, suite. So it's one of those where it's like, yeah, we could do that, but we looked at there were a few downfalls in how it reports like profitability and whatnot. Um, and so we ended up just going with a third-party tool that was tried and trued that we've used before. Um, and it does okay. It integrates with HubSpot pretty well, it integrates with QuickBooks just fine. Um, but same thing, you know, we were doing bill play pay through our payroll provider because they've got a full HR suite of things and bill pay is in there. Um, but same issue, I had to manually push them to QuickBooks. Well, when we went back to QuickBooks, they have bill pay and it's the same for like 50 cents for an ACH or something. And then I don't have to do anything. So it's that removing steps, right? Instead of just adding features. Like I don't care if the feature set goes up. I don't care if the feature set goes down like two features. I am fine with that. What I really care about is is this faster, easier, especially with accounting, right? Like I don't, we don't make money by me doing accounting stuff. Um it's important and we have to do it to know where the money is and you know, profitability and all that, but it's not we no one pays uh pays me to do accounting. It's just what we have to do. So fewer steps there for me, for Jessica, you know, for Riley, for anybody is good.

Zac 17:23

Yeah. And I think that goes into our next point too, is when we pressure test a tool against real goals and workflows. I mean, you were looking at the goals of our the of the company, and you made the adjustments you needed to to get more of a meaningful impact and make sure the tools fit our current processes.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Yep. So And we ended up paying a little bit more, right? Like having QuickBooks is a little bit more because it used to be integrated with our project management system, but that was a great project management system, not a great accounting system, but it didn't push anything to QuickBooks. They wanted to be their self-contained thing. So I think that's the other thing is these tools that are just a walled garden and they don't talk to any other tools, even through like a Zapier or something like that, like that. Um, and you don't always know that until you get in. And that's where like having a demo is great. A 30-day or 60-day free trial is gold because if you can play with it um for a little bit, or even if you have to pay, but you can do it monthly with the cancellation, like everybody wants to lock you into the annual contract because they want you to get in and just be like, well, I guess we have to keep using this because we paid for it. But there's that opportunity, if you can use it, you'll find the flaws pretty quickly. For me, it's like buying a car or buying a house, right? Like you can test drive the car, you can tour the house, you can have the house inspected. Um, and I'm going through this right now. Like, we put in new faucets in the primary bathroom. And our we have a handyman and he's great. And he came over and he was doing it, and he's like, Yeah, he's like, Did you know your valves like from the basement to the sink are leaking left and right? And I'm like, What? He's like, Yeah, he's like, it's not a big leak, but like there's moisture around them. So he's like, we need to replace the valves. And I'm like, okay, like that, we've we've been in this house two and a half years, but you know, the inspector didn't catch that, like nobody really got it, but now it's fixed. You know, so kicking the tires, driving the car, playing with the software, playing with the tool, like real time is important. And that's like my Sintra AI thing. Like, I can play with it for a year for 70 bucks, totally great, totally great, you know. Low cost to entry, I can mess with it, also see how it evolves with AI, like it's changing every day.

Zac 19:38

So something that I would kind of want to bring up is uh, you know, HubSpot actually has if you're a user of HubSpot, you're kind of barraged with a lot of new product updates and tools. And even though you have you have depending on your like account level, you have access to most of those tools. Testing them is important and uh figuring out like what's actually worth your time to, because there's a lot of tools on there, especially when it comes to AI, that aren't ready for like the big time, I guess you could say, they're not ready to be like for full usage or full adoption. But I don't know, I kind of wanted to bring that up too because we do we've been doing a lot of reviews, especially this year, of the tools that have been coming out for HubSpot. And it's not just uh, oh, this is how this tool works. There's actually some insights from some of our team members. So make sure you check those out.

Reduce Or Add Complexity

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Because we play we play with that, yeah. So it's just an Android71.com slash hubspot-tips, I believe, if I remember correctly. Um, yeah, the other thing that with HubSpot is a lot of those are hidden, like they're they're betas. So when we turn on a lot of betas, and I'll go to like do an onboarding with somebody, I'll be like, oh, you need to turn this on, you need to turn this on, you need to turn this on. Um, and so if you're looking for those, there if you go to the upper right menu in HubSpot where your company name is and you click that, there's a product updates, and you can see everything that's launched in beta, sunsetting, private beta, all of that. Um but yeah, it's you know, and HubSpot has plenty of AI going on too, like depending on what you've got. But like to your point, like, do you want to test it in your real environment? I've got somebody working with the customer uh agent, which answers questions in your chat. And she's like, I don't really want to test this live. But and there is a little tool that says test your agent, and you can type in questions and things. So here's my my secret tip. It's technically a tangent. Um HubSpot has what's called the Smart CRM. Um, and it's a standalone CRM for people who don't want the marketing sales, et cetera, tools. They just want a better CRM. However, you can add it for$75 for one user per month to your current stack. So you could have a pro suite and you could add smart CRM. And here's the trick Smart CRM Enterprise is$75 per core seat. A core pro seat, like Marketing Pro, is$85. So it's like add that and you will get you get a sandbox, which is important for testing things like this. Um, you get permission sets, which is great. You get custom objects. So there's a few of the features in Enterprise that you get just by having that one add-on that's very cheap. You also get like you already have the smart CRM technically, but you can add that seat. Um, and it's a real great trick to have that playground, right? Because we love a sandbox where we can play around and not hurt anything. So yeah.

Zac 22:24

And I think uh that kind of goes into our final point too. It's like when you're looking for a tool, don't just look for like short-term stuff, look for something that can help you in the long term. Uh, we kind of talked about this earlier with the danger of shiny object syndrome.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

SOS. You're gonna need an SOS if you get into shiny object syndrome.

Zac 22:44

Yeah, it's easy to get carried away on new tools that look really fun and exciting, but how does that actually help your team? How does it actually help you? And is it going to help you pass the short term? Like pass quick wins. You want a tool that will have staying power, that will stick with you, and that your team can use more than just once or twice like a month or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

And I think also like scale is a big one because a lot of people are charging for seats now, you know, HubSpot's charging for seats. So is that per seat price uh absorbable in your overhead and in your current business model? And as you add, if you add 20 seats, 50 seats, 100 seats, can you can you scale and not break the bank? Like that's one thing. But then there's also like collaboration tools, how the team uses it, how it integrates. Have a few of your team members torture test it. They're gonna tell you pretty quickly if they feel like it's one good for them, and two, if they think it can scale if they add it. Because you can just say, what if you had 10 direct reports? Does this tool still work for you? Hypothetically work in that situation. Look to see what their like pro pricing is or enterprise pricing and how they deal with those additional seats and what features come with it. Because the other big one, and we get into this in HubSpot a lot, and I talked about those permission sets, which are only an enterprise. Um, the more people you get into HubSpot, the more you need to manage permissions and who can do and see what. And without permission sets, it's pretty limited in what you do. I really wish they would roll permission sets down to pro. I think it's time. Um and they might, maybe that'll come this fall. Who knows? But understanding what your level of effort is today versus what your level of effort will be long term is so, so, so critical. Like, can it scale? Um I think we're fortunate because we really at most will add like five to 10 more people to our agency. And that's kind of our limit that we've set strategically where we would cap because we want to be small and we want to be kind of like under 20 people. So that's my evaluation for tools. I don't need to know if it works for 200 people. I need to know if like we get this in for 20, will that work? Um so yeah.

Zac 25:02

Yeah. I think that's an episode. I think we covered everything.

unknown 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

And I do think um one last point that's in here is you know, you do want those quick wins with a new tool because you need to prove to management or whomever that like it's gonna work. But you've also got to balance that with staying power. Like, can you solve something really quickly? Your team's also gonna love you if you can solve something really quickly. Um, but then is there is does it last? Like, or is it just a really fun first date? And then when you get into the relationship, it really sucks. Hopefully not. All right. So um just a quick recap. So define your problem, find a tool to solve it. Um, look to see whether it reduces or adds complexity, short-term and long-term, your migration to the tool and your usage of it. Pressure test it against real goals and workflows, have your team get in there, try to get a trial of some sort where you're actually using it parallel to your old tools. Um, and then look for long-term fit, not just short-term excitement. Um, again, very much the dating thing, like short term, it's so exciting, but long term, will that really last? So I think that's it. That's a great um great follow-up to last week.

Migration Costs And Inertia

Zac 26:10

And uh Yeah, you can find our agency at antidote71.com and all of our socials are there as well. If you have a question you'd like to send our way, head to CTApodcast.live to shoot us an email, or even better, leave us a voice message on our hotline at 402-718-9971. Your question will make it into a future episode. Uh, we'll see you next week when we discuss trends that are why trends aren't worth chasing, or why most trends aren't.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

All right, look forward to it.