Intersectionality in the American South
Intersectionality in the American South is a podcast for anyone whose ready to take a long, hard, look at the ways oppressive systems land in people’s lives. We bring together academics and everyday people in conversations about the intersectional forms of oppression that marginalized people experience. You will hear thought provoking conversations about hard topics that center the often-silenced voices of Women of color, queer, trans and non binary folks and immigrants.
Intersectionality in the American South
How Technological Advancements are Reshaping Higher Education
In this episode of 'Intersectionality in the American South,' host Dr. Katie Acosta dives into the ways tech is changing how educators and administrators approach their work higher education . Recorded during a symposium in Mainz, Germany, this episode features interviews with Dr. Kameelah Martin and Dr. Karen Jackson Weaver. Dr. Martin talks about her new research project looking at the ways digital platforms connect cultures across the diaspora. Dr. Jackson Weaver shares her views on using AI in education while emphasizing the need for digital ethics and inclusivity. Both guests highlight how tech can both advance learning and pose challenges for BIPOC communities.
Follow us on instagram @intersectsouth or visit our website at https://sites.gsu.edu/intersectsouth/
Welcome to intersectionality in the American South, where educators, students, activists, and community members come together to unpack current realities for black, indigenous, and people of color. Each episode we'll discuss the impact of racism, sexism, classism, heterosexism, and anti-immigrant sentiment on the lives of Atlanta residents and bipoc individuals throughout the south. This is your host, Dr. Katie Olta, inviting you to embark on this journey with us. This past summer, the intersectionality in the American South Collective were all hosted at Johannes Gutenberg University in Mines, Germany. We were there for a symposium on the influence of technological advances on our racialized experiences. Over the course of several days, scholars explored how science is driving transformation. And what it means for us as educators to interact with the technology ethically, responsibly, and in the interest of furthering inquiry, I was so excited by the many compelling conversations that took place that I asked several participants to speak with me one-on-one after their presentations to delve deeper into their important work. Today I am sharing my conversation with two participants. First, Dr. Camila Martin, who talks about her use of social media to advance a fascinating academic research project. And then we will hear from Dr. Karen Jackson Weaver, who speaks from her position as a higher ed administrator on the role of AI technology for educating the next generation. Let's get to it. I would Like to start by asking you to, um, state your name and your affiliation for us. Okay. Sure. If that's okay.
Speaker 3:Yes. My name is Camila Martin and I'm a professor of African American Studies at the College of Charleston.
Speaker:Awesome. And can you tell me how you racially identify?
Speaker 3:I identify as African American. Okay.
Speaker:I ask because I think it's really important for how we talk, have this conversation, right? Mm-hmm. Because I'm asking you to reflect on, um, the, the prompt, which I, I'll, I'll state in just a second. Um, but I'm asking you to reflect on this conversation and it's, it's, I think it's really shaped by your own racial identity, the landscape in which you are coming at this work. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So it really matters. It absolutely does. Yes. Yes. Well, the prompt is how have global technological advancements shaped the ways that we think about race migration, transnationalism and histori biographies, and what does our increased digital presence mean for how people come to understand identity and interracial and interethnic connections?
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker:So I wanna encourage you to think about this as a scholar, but also as a person, right? Yes, absolutely. Who's engaging on Instagram and TikTok, and as we all are, we're seeing the impact of, of these platforms in our lives?
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely. So initially, you know, immediately I go to, um, Instagram is my social media of choice. I think about all of the, um. The videos, right. I teach African American studies, uh, particularly literary and, and folks that folklore studies, and I teach this course called, um, folklore of the African Diaspora, in which I am talking about I I start in West Africa, pre-colonial, west Africa and kind of move into the present and I talk about some of the foundational. Cultures and, and, and folk practices that came out of West Africa and then moved into the diaspora. So we're talking Brazil, Cuba, Haiti, Britain, all, all of the places, right? And what I find so fascinating right now in this moment is as I'm talking about these things with students, you know, if you go to Instagram, you can see how those connections are being made. Um. Across generations, across time and space, you know, by, by content creators. Right there, there's one of my favorite that's like, you know, oh, this, this dance is really Jamaican, right? And so you have the Jamaican person on one side, and then you have the the, the Kenan saying, no, actually we created that. Right? And so you're seeing both versions of this. Dance. Right. Or this song, or this music or this food, right? Yeah. From across the diaspora. And it's basically showing you right, the connection, right, the overlap, the connections. Um, you know, even, even thinking about, you know, kind of the lineage when we think particularly about West Africa and then the Americas, right? Thinking about kind of these sources of origin, right? Or, you know, cultural borrowing. Or, you know, putting these two cultures in, in conversation with each other. And I think it's just such a rich example. And I think for my students, you know, I, I go to the books and I'm showing them documentaries and, and they're reading the articles. Right. But it doesn't hit home like playing that clip in class. Yeah. You right. And, and or playing, you know, some Afrobeats music or, you know, and they're, they're able to contextualize it, not only. In terms of their generation, but in their own forum, right? Mm-hmm. Like they're, they're kind of the born digital generation, right? And so it just resonates in a very different way. And I was caught off guard by that, but I'm like, oh, okay, let me dig into this, right? Sure. And, and help them to understand this idea of what it means to be transnational, right? What it means, uh, to be part of the diaspora, right? Like it's right there in front of them and they can see it. In real time. Um, and so I think for me, that that was kind of my gut response to, to the prompt. I think about the beautiful ways that we're able to visualize, right. The cultural continuities across geographies, across time periods, right?'cause some, some people post these documentaries from National Geographic that are like 20, 30, 40 years old. Yeah. And then here we have this present day iteration of the same thing, right? Sure. Mm-hmm. And so it's just, it's just a beautiful, I think. Archive, if you will, right. Of, of some of these co cultural continuities. And I, I, I really dig into it as a, as a scholar, but even as, as just a Black American, it's like, you know, my scholarship, my knowledge only goes so far. There are areas in, in ethnic groups on the continent and other places that I have not yet explored. And so I'm learning as well. Right. Yeah. And so it's, it's, it really is just the beautiful evolution of, of some of the, the content and the ideas. That I've been trying to, to, to share with students for generations now, or gener a generations years now. Right. Just some years That's, yeah, just some years. Right? Yeah.
Speaker:Um, it's so important and I. You're totally right. It resonates to hear, for me to hear you talk about how this is us meeting our students where they are Yes, absolutely. And communicating with them in their language. This is absolutely right. Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3:cause Zora Hurston can't do what, what TikTok can do. Precisely. Precise. I mean, like that's not even a fair competition right there. Right? It's not. It's not. But that's, that's where we are. That's where we are. And if that's, if that's how they can receive it. And process it then. Hey, that's where I'm going, so I'm with you. Yeah, yeah, I hear you.
Speaker:Okay. Um. One thought that I have, hearing what you just shared with us, it, um, made me think about my Instagram algorithm.
Speaker 3:Yes. Mm-hmm. We all have
Speaker:our own algorithms, right? We all, we all do. Right. Everyone's gram is gonna be tailored to what they're, they're going for, and we've gotta to think about those things critically, right? We do. We do. Yes. Um, so mine, I'll tell you a little bit about myself. Mm-hmm. Like mine is giving me a whole lot these days about moving to Latin America mm-hmm. And, and getting a digital nom match visa. Yes. Yes. And a lot of it is black women, you know, talking to other black women about how we the United States and find a safe place to be. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, that's where we are. Right. Um, so my gram is doing a lot of that.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:The other thing that. Seeing a lot of on Instagram for me is, um. Education
Speaker 2:mm-hmm.
Speaker:That's being shared around resisting the erasure of blackness. Yes. And black histories.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely. Um, in all
Speaker:of the Americas, just the United States. Right. In all of Right. In all of the Americas, yes. So I'm getting a lot of like celebration of Afro Peruvian. Mm-hmm. Right. Let's talk about what blackness looks like in Panama. Yes. Um, and I'm, you know, this is all just like being being sent down to me. Yes.'cause of what. Yes. What the digital world mm-hmm. Has recognized as like my areas of interest.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Um, so every time I log on to these platforms, I know it's an opportunity for me to engage with things that, you know, I don't have as easily and readily available to me. Yes, exactly. Mm-hmm. Um, so, uh, I teach a course at Georgia State called Race in the Americas. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And the focus of the class is to talk about, um. What blackness in particular, but blackness and indigeneity. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, sometimes together and sometimes like as parallel pieces like look like throughout the Americans. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um. In different countries that have had these very complex histories with slavery. Yes. That are distinct in some ways from what we have in the United States, right? Mm-hmm. But that have interesting parallels, right? Yes. And it's really important for me to teach that to a us
Speaker 2:mm-hmm.
Speaker:Student body. Most of my students are, you know, um. Graduate students who have been trained in the United States. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And who have gotten some version of history that's US based and looks at slavery as something that is something the United States did and that they need to atone for in some way. Right? Mm-hmm. Um, and that, you know. They've gotten very rudimentary versions of that in general. Yes,
Speaker 3:yes.
Speaker:Um, so, but when they come into my class, I'm like, but let's talk about what systems of slavery look like in other places. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because in order for me to look like I do right, and be from the Dominican Republic, like I'm a descendant of a slave history that I've had to fight to know Yes. In a diff, you know, in a different way. And that's important.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker:Um, and so. We get to talk about, um, blackness in Mexico, right? We talk about the Seminoles mm-hmm. In Mexico. Mm-hmm. Mm. We talk about. Mm-hmm. Um, and. I, so I say all of this to say that there's a way in which my engagement with social media platforms has provided a space to resist erasure. Yes. Right? Yes, absolutely. Um, and how that changes the way I, I look at my identity and how I share identity. Mm-hmm. And learn, you know, teach it with others. So it's powerful.
Speaker 3:It's, it's, and, and, you know, I, that really resonates with me. Uh, you know, like I said, there, there are corners of the world that I just don't have the expertise in, but what I do know, mm-hmm. Right. Particularly in the Americas Right, is there is likely not a space on this earth that was not touched by enslaved Africans mm-hmm. In some way, or the trait in some way. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. And to think about. Being Afro-Colombian. Right. It's, it's one thing to kind of have it up in your head and, and, and know that it exists. Right? But then to see images of it being celebrated. Mm-hmm. And what it looks like. And to finally understand why in high school, in my Spanish book, there were all of these black and brown people with afros in these Latin American countries. I was so confused. Right. The social media is allowing us to move from kind of this knowing intellectually right, to knowing it more internally, knowing it. Viscerally. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Knowing it in ways that, you know, our, our education system at, at, at multiple levels just can't give to us. Right. And so when I see those things, I think it is so beautiful. Right. And I, I am, I am very intentional about sharing and reposting and, and sharing with my students, because I'm also like, okay, we're existing. Resisting erasure. Let me help move this along a little bit, right? Right. Let me spread this to five or 10 more people who have never seen it and who can then understand better, right? What it means when we say the African diaspora, right? Mm-hmm. Because it's not, it's not just this trajectory from the west coast of Africa. To the United States, right? Mm-hmm. Which is, we're kind of, it's kind of truncated, right? That's what we learn. We don't think about all these other places that, that, that slavery existed, right? But it really gives nuance to, you know, Columbia and Cuba and Panama and all of these different places to help us understand. The, the multiplicity, the, um, multifaceted experience of enslavement, right? But not just that. And I do think that's important, but then also to, to take that and understand the, the brilliance and, and, and the ingenuity of, of these enslaved communities to then transform the spaces. Where they existed. Right. And to create these beautiful cultures that are celebrated across the world and, you know, that are just richly, um, deeply enriched rather, um, with that African presence in that African past. And so, you know, resisting sharing, I, I may not necessarily identify with some of the culture. Mm-hmm. But what I do know is that there's a similar historical experience and so. I take it, I take it as my personal duty to help to resist that erasure and to pass it on and to bring it into my classroom where it's relevant. Right. Because I'm like, how, how better to then spread it, right? Right. And share it, right. Than to bring it into the classroom and get students to engage with it. Right? Because I feel like if, if I don't know. Maybe, maybe they don't know. Right. And so let me help them, you know, get further than I was when I was their age. Right? So I just think it's such a incredible universal tool, not just for the classroom, but just, just for life in general. And for people who, like you said, are are moving, moving about the world, right? You have to have some understanding and awareness of the spaces that, that you occupy, whether it's, you know, uh, to relocate, um, as an expatriate of the, the United States, or, you know, you're just. You're just island hopping. You're just on vacation, right? You still need to understand right. The politics Yes. Of the space that you're inhabiting in Indeed, yes. Yes indeed. Yes. And I think And that there's a
Speaker:social responsibility with that. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes,
Speaker 3:absolutely. And I just think social media really, not just social media, but since we're talking about the the Gram, right. Social media really does help to, to do that. Right. And, and just on a side note, I had no idea there was so many. Black ex expatriates, you know, scattered about the world, but you know, living all over the place. All over the place. Right. I'm like, lemme find out. There's a whole community of us, Costa Rica. Like it's just, you know, I would've known these things, right? But I'm like, okay, so let me plan for the future. These are some possibilities, right? So it's just, it's just an amazing resource and I think we, we don't. We don't often stop to reflect enough about the way that it really is shifting, um, our consciousness, shifting our political awareness, even if we don't necessarily identify as being political, right? Mm-hmm. Or, or being intellectual people, right? You're engaging with these spaces and, and this, this content, and it is, it is going to shape you one way or the other, whether you're, you're conscious of it or not.
Speaker:Indeed. Mm-hmm. Indeed. Mm-hmm. Um. So in the presentation you gave this morning
Speaker 2:mm-hmm.
Speaker:Which I loved by the way. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker:Um, I was really fascinated hearing you talk about what's showing up in your algorithm. Yes. Right. Um, and all of this stuff around, um. People using the Gram as a space to teach others mm-hmm. About healing. Mm-hmm. About herbs, yes. About medicine. Mm-hmm. And about spirituality. Yes. Um, and it's, it, it, it hit me that I, I grew up with. Ideas, familial, mm-hmm. Ideologies. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Around African religiosity.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:As something we didn't talk about. Right. Because I'm from the Dominican Republic. Mm-hmm. My family definitely on like, they experienced how colonialism Yes. Impacted and shaped and changed, right?
Speaker 2:Yes. Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Our views about religiosity mm-hmm. And about spirituality. Right. Really more than religion. Yes. But to some degree as well. Um, but there was always this tension with the two, right? Mm-hmm. So I, I very much received mm-hmm. From my elders, this message around. Ways of healing.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And protecting, mm-hmm. That were entirely tied to a spiritual connection. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And to a higher power. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. And simultaneously it was like. But you know, Catholicism says, right. And so yes, that's, so, you know, we compartmentalize these two
Speaker 3:Uhhuh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I
Speaker:grew up seeing it as something we didn't talk about out loud. Right. Like, it was more like in, it was like private space conversation. Yes, that's right.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker:Um, that was just, that was my experience with it.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So, hearing you talk about this all over Instagram,
Speaker 3:listen,
Speaker:that is like fascinating to me,
Speaker 3:right? It is. It is. It's um,
Speaker:it's like one of these spaces where like, you know, I, I never, I would not have. Thought right about the world. About social media being a space where we can share Yes. Um,
Speaker 3:yes.
Speaker:Yes. About this topic in particular, because for me it was always such a, such a like taboo, like powerful. Yes. But also very like hush hush. Yes. So this is important. I think just that, that doing right, that sharing on these social media platforms, um. About herbs. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. About ways in which we can heal mm-hmm. That don't have to involve western medicine. Right. Um, and about deities. Mm-hmm. Um, is something I think in itself is such a like. I see it as its own resistance.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You know what I mean? Because it's always kind of existed. Right? And if you know, you know, you find the communities, you find the people who, who are safe enough to talk with about these things, right? Mm-hmm. And it was very much kind of word of mouth and, and community centered. But I think with the pandemic, it really. And because black and brown communities were, were, were disproportionately being affected. Right. It's like, okay. And, and you know, I'm, I'm a shout out black women because that's who, who's showing up on my algorithm. Right. But what I do know right. Is that they were like, listen, our children are elders. Our brothers and sisters are dying. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And we don't know, we. The community. We don't know what this is, the government doesn't know what it is. The medical community doesn't know what it is, but I know what these symptoms are, and you know what, I got this ancient wisdom that I've been using for eons and I can address right. The, the, the buildup of the mucus in the chest. I can address, you know, the, the, the breathing I can, I can address all of these individual symptoms and so I'm going to teach my people how to save themselves. Mm-hmm. And, and I don't think that's really a novel idea. Right. Our communities have been doing that. Again, for generations, right? But with the pandemic and with the, the world shutting down, right? And going into, um, you know, quarantine and whatnot, I think, you know, what pushed it to the surface was really, um, kind of the, the, the emergency of the situation. It's like, listen, people are dying. Every day. Like we, we, we saw the numbers, right? And it's like, no, we need an intervention. And what I do know is that I got these herbs and this is how you do it. I mean, literally walking a step by step, how to create these healing bombs, how to make these teas, how to go outside and identify the actual. Herbs, herbs that you need to do it, right. These women were, were selfless. It's like, okay, we have this knowledge and we've been using it for years, but guess what? The world is in crisis and so we're gonna give this to the world. We are gonna put it out here. And maybe it started as being for our communities, right? But it's like, it's not, it's not gender specific, it's not race specific. Like whoever needs it, whoever can use it, have it. And so that's when I began to, to really just kind of pay attention a little bit more.'cause I'm like, they, they are doing god's work out here. Like, they're like, listen. We don't have time to wait on the government. And, and they, they are, are, are flawed anyway. We, we can't trust them. But what we can trust is grandma's recipe. Right. Um, and I was talking to, to one of our colleagues, uh, who mentioned that in the Haitian community, right. They had. Kind of the same thing going on, the same phenomenon where they were sharing these different recipes, uh, for COVID tea, right? They invented this COVID tea and gave it a new name, but it's like, listen, if, if you're congested, use these herbs to treat these symptoms, right? And so I just think it, it was just such a phenomenal moment to witness, right? Because I'm, I'm part of some of these communities. I know that, that some of these women are like. Having out-of-body experiences and, and, and people are coming to them in dreams and telling them, yeah, do A, B, and C Yeah. And, and put this pulis on your chest mm-hmm. And cover up with it. And, you know, they're taking this, this information that these other ways of knowing, right. This, this, these spiritual pathways to healing. And they're putting it out in the world. And they may not necessarily talk about, oh, well, you know. My, my grandmother or my spirit guide, miss, miss, you know, Mabel came to the dream last night and told me how to save myself or how to save my community. Right? But they're still doing the work. Right. And so it's, it's really interesting'cause there's this balance between putting it out there. For its functional use. Right. But they're not necessarily saying where it came from. Right? Yeah. And so it's like, there, there's just this implied knowing, right? Yeah. If you're kind of part of these communities. Okay. Um, so I just thought it was just this, this amazing thing that was happening and I, I'm just watching it happen. I could go on, but it's, it's just this incredible moment where black women, you know, answered the call to, to save and to serve and to pull on their ancient traditions, um, that we, we share at the kitchen table that we, we don't necessarily talk about the dreams or the definition or all this other stuff where it came from, but we gonna slide you that t. Right? Yeah. We're gonna slide you these herbs and tell you what to do with them. Um, and that's just how we've always operated. So to see it on the one hand is not surprising to see it because we have operated in these ways and so for so long. But to see it. Rise up on social media and just be out there. That was a little surprising to me. And so I'm, I'm very curious to kind of really dig into it more, uh, as a scholar to understand mm-hmm. You know, that moment, you know? Mm-hmm. Because I just think it's just, it's just such a beautiful thing.
Speaker:Yeah. It's fascinating. It is. To say the least. To say the least. It's fascinating. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, I cannot wait to see where this research goes. Um, and I look forward to the book. Well,
Speaker 3:thank you. Thank you, thank you. Yeah. I don't know how it's going to evolve. Right, right. Now I imagine it'll just be an, an article. Right. But, but who knows? Who knows where It'll, it'll go and, and you know where the work will take me. I
Speaker:mean, I find that the research projects that I'm most interested in and most excited about, other ones that I'm like, I'm not sure exactly where it's going. Exactly. Let's just see how we talk. Yes, exactly. Yes, yes. Right. We're
Speaker 3:just, we're just gonna go where we're led.
Speaker:Yeah. There's, there's power in that. Absolutely. And just like, you know, sometimes I feel like d like certain projects, like something bigger than me is pushing that work along. Absolutely. And I'm the vessel that helps make it happen. Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. And so,
Speaker 3:yep. I just, I just give myself over. I surrender. There you go.
Speaker:Well, thank you so, so much. No, thank you. Thank you for the invitation. Yeah. It's been really nice to hear your thoughts, um, on such an important topic. And there you have it. That's Dr. Camila Martin. Now let's hear from Dr. Dr. Karen Jackson Weaver. So thank you for joining us and if we could start with you sharing your name and your academic background.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. I'm so delighted to be here. Thank you so much for having me, and thank you so much for providing this platform and this opportunity to talk about, about the work that we do, not only in the academy, but really. Within the global community. So yeah, hello to the community listening in and for those who will be watching via video. My name is Dr. Karen Jackson Weaver, and I am an African American woman from the United States. I have been a global higher education leader. For the last three decades, I started my career in higher education as a dean at Princeton University, primarily working at the graduate school. Subsequently, I spent time at Harvard Kennedy School as a dean there. Uh, before my vice presidency at NYUI spent time as a visiting scholar and dean and residence at Oxford University at the Benik School of Government. Thrilled to be here and excited to talk more about the work that I do as a board member of the Leadership Alliance, which is a national consortium of about 30 institutions, taught research institutions historically black colleges and universities, Hispanic serving institutions and tribal colleges, as well as private industry members who support research excellence and research innovation.
Speaker:That's fantastic. So I heard your presentation, this morning and I really, really, really appreciated it. It was so helpful to hear your thoughts on how AI can be both like a pedagogical tool for us Absolutely. To lean into. Yes. And also something for us to be weary of. It gave me a lot to think about in terms of, um, how educators can. Engage with AI in ways that are. Attending to digital ethics.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker:Um, and how we can teach that
Speaker 4:Absolutely. To our
Speaker:students. So I, I am an academic at Georgia State University and in my department, there's a lot of reticence around AI in general. The, you know, the faculty are like, Ja, GBT is terrible. Mm-hmm. And I wanna respect and honor where people are with that. Right. And simultaneously, I'm also like, we can't stop them from using it. We have to figure out a way to make this a healthier relationship.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. Um.
Speaker:Technological advances in this area are moving so, so quickly that it's like it's infiltrating our lives whether we want it to or not. That that's right. Whether we're noticing the extent to which it's, you know, becoming part of our lives, the ways it's in our smartphones, the ways that That's right. Every time we have a conversation. Yes. Something
Speaker 4:yes. Yes, absolutely. It's there. Yes.
Speaker:Um. So, and you having served in administrative positions at university, I think are uniquely positioned to be able to share mm-hmm. Thoughts on this particularly like how. Technological advancements in AI are being adapted in higher ed. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I think there's a lot to learn from you. Yes. In that, in that regard. How are. Administrators. Mm-hmm. Supporting and leading the way. Because we take our cues from them, so That's right. You know? That's right.
Speaker 4:No, I, I'm so glad you posed that question, and it's such an important question to ask. And if I had to paint a diagram, I would ask people to think about not just AI and what artificial intelligence represents, but to think about AI as a tool for technological advancement. And it, so if we were to create a diagram with AI at the center. And let's say AI is kind of emanating from that central point. How do we use it as a tool for good, for innovation and advancement of every single institution? Not just in the US but we are here in Germany, right? This is a global conversation that we're having and so I. Uh, in, in addition to putting AI at the center point of that diagram, I would also place digital ethics there. Yes. And I wanna be specific and just kind of highlight some components about what I mean, because I think. People say digital ethics and it means different things. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, there's cyber ethics, right? There's information ethics when we talk about technology, but there are many categories that, that are a part of this. And so it's data privacy and security, right? How do we as institutions think about that algorithmic bias and fairness? Information, integrity and misinformation, right? Intellectual property and copyright, digital accessibility and inclusion, cyber bullying and online harassment. There's so many different areas that tie into digital ethics, and I think when we think about administrative leadership at our respective institutions, there are ways to think about AI in terms of. Systems and systems development and strategic planning and thinking. But the other component is really a leadership issue. So how do administrative leaders, leaders and leadership work in partnership and in collaboration with faculty, staff, and students. So that AI presents us with an opportunity as a community to learn and to leverage the resources that it provides. But what that means is that we have to be thinking about. AI as a teaching tool, pedagogically. And so that means we have to invest in faculty In many ways, I give people paint the picture of imagine the internet right when it first existed. So, you know, and people are like, oh, the Internet's horrible. It's bad. Don't, don't use the internet. You know, just go to the book. Right. And, and I love books. I'm, I'm the kind of person, I love to smell the book. I love to turn the pages. To turn the pages. Yes. So I understand the apprehension and the fears, and I think in many ways AI is. Very similar in terms of how we thought about the internet in the early days, right? About how it could be used for good. You know, ways that we could develop, develop, um, commerce, webinars, you know, just so many different ways to innovate using the internet. And I think similarly when we think about AI and its potential, there's so much opportunity, uh, for, for growth and learning and development. But we also have to be careful that we're empowering people and educating people. So that means our faculty need to learn about how to use AI as a teaching tool. Students need to know what it means to use chat GBT responsibly. Mm-hmm. Notice I underscored responsibly, right? In the same way that they would demonstrate writing a paper and using citations for articles or for a book or for a particular academic or intellectual study. We have to be able to kind of point to ways that we're using inciting artificial intelligence or use that is not original thought. Okay, so that we are able to train students and give them guidance on how to use it as a tool. I think there hasn't been the kind of investment, quite honestly, it has to be a part of professional development and leadership development for faculty staff, and for our executive leaders at every single hire. Education institution, not only here in the US but globally, so that we can share best practices, so
Speaker:we can share and learn from each other.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. Mm-hmm.
Speaker:With such new technology, that sharing and learning is gonna be super important, right? I think so, because you know this, we're kind of in a, we're in a little bit, we're a new territory. We are,
Speaker 4:we are. We definitely a new territory and I think a lot of people are uninformed and afraid. Okay. And quite honestly, I don't know that. Institutions have taken the kind of leadership that they should in this area. So faculty need institutes, right? Right. Faculty need workshops and so do students. And so where are the learning communities? Where are the workshops and the seminars? Uh, we can use online learning, uh, and really leverage the kind of global conversations that we wanna have. And so I'm, I'm happy to, to share that those are kind of things in the works and under development, but I think it's really important that what we experienced earlier this morning. The in-person conversation that we had. I applaud you for creating this space on this podcast. Mm-hmm. To give people real time access to conversations that are taking place with, with a, you know, we're having a community conversation, uh, with those of us in, in the room, all from all across the US as well as all across the globe. And you're sharing that right now with, with your listeners. And I think that's the kind of thing we wanna see replicated again and against.'cause I think today, today's timestamp, this is the worst that it's gonna be. It's only gonna get better tomorrow and the day after. The technology, the technology is gonna be better. Okay, so how do we keep up with that? We need to to, to find creative ways and opportunities to continue that learning.
Speaker:Okay. I hear you. Just as someone who's in the classroom with students Yes. Who look to us to lead. Yes. It's hard to know what to say when I'm still trying to wrap my brain around how chat GPT works. Yes. Understood.
Speaker 4:Understood. And a little freaked out at everything. It knows. Well, we, we, you know, these are some of the things that we're talking about in terms of thinking about not just chat GBT, but also as we think about, um. Bias. Yeah. Right. In the digital era. Yeah. And what that means in terms of how it impacts, um, that space. And I, I really wanna acknowledge the work of scholars who are doing this work. Sophia Noble and her book, algorithms of Oppression and so many others have allowed us to learn more about this space and being intentional as we think about algorithmic justice and algorithmic equity, how that ties into artificial intelligence and teaching and training. I think there are others who are doing. Absolutely f fantastic work as it relates to innovation and imagination and how that impacts technological advancement and digitization in an era, in an AI era. Mm-hmm. So I would say Professor Roja Benjamin has been one of the people at the forefront in, in this, in this work. And so reading their work, you know, their books and, and looking at their scholarship is kind of a required, uh, I would say. A required part of our lifelong learning that we do. Those are the scholars who are doing this work, and I think that they're able to give insight and perspective on. Ways of thinking about AI and how it's, it's something that we can use that will benefit society, but if we're not careful, some of the things that we see in terms of oppression with different groups, whether it's women or people of color, those same trends can and have been repeated and, and when we look at ai and so. I think you have to approach this and be very, very deliberate in terms of thinking about when we say AI for all.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Do we really mean AI for all? Does that mean people who look like me as an African American woman? Mm-hmm. Does that mean, uh. Women, does that mean people of color? Does that mean groups that have been historically marginalized? Are we being proactive, inclusive, and comprehensive in, in how we're creating platforms and tools to be complimentary? Mm-hmm. And so that, that question in my mind, when you paint that AI diagram and when you have digital ethics emanating from the center. AI for all that sense of plurality, cooperativeness, and equity has to be embedded in that model. And if it's not, then you have to say, well then why is it not at the center? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. And who's at
Speaker 4:the forefront of kind of determining which way we're going without asking those questions?
Speaker:Mm-hmm. Okay.
Speaker 4:Does that make sense? It does.
Speaker:It does.'cause we can reproduce the same kinds of inequalities. Right. We don wanna do that. The same forms of oppression. Right? That's right. That's right. And we have That's right. An in-person dialogue, right. In the cyber world.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker 4:And I also loved your question Yeah. Around technological advancement and how it ties into different categories. Mm-hmm. So I don't know if that's something you still wanna get into. Yeah. Or should I wait? Let read it. Okay. Let me,
Speaker:let me read the prompt. Yes. Um, and then feel free to respond to whatever pizzas of it resonate with you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker:Um, so the prompt is how have global technological advances shaped the ways that we think about race migration, transnationalism and histori biographies, and what does our increased digital presence mean for how people come to understand identity and interracial and interethnic connection?
Speaker 4:That what a phenomenal. Question. You should host a symposium on that. Yes. You, I, I saw the question and I thought, wow, this is, this is a book. Yeah. So do a call for pa I, I'm happy to help you facilitate this because I think the question that you asked is so provocative, so profound, and so timely, and I'm gonna tell you why. So when you talk about. Global technological advancements and what it represents and symbolizes, it's really an important question in terms of how global higher education is being shaped right now, uh, in the contemporary era that we're in. Right? And so when we think about race migration, transnationalism under the guise of thinking about historiography. The question that you're asking really forces us to think about the history of global higher education and historically what that has meant in terms of who has access. Yes. Right. And how race has been a central theme in terms of who's not included racially, right. In terms of migration, what that means in terms of different groups that have been historically marginalized. And in some of the workshops when I talk about the future of global higher education, and when I talk about. Learning communities and and are, are kind of projecting what the future of higher education and global higher education looks like. I remind people about how we got to the point where we are today, right? Look at access in terms of who had access to education. We look at early America and American institutions. And so many of the, the, the schools that have existed for hundreds of years did not allow women to be educated there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Did not allow African Americans, uh, Latinos, um, native Americans. There was no access for people of color, uh, until very recently. And so when you have these gatherings and get togethers of alumni, or you think about legacy and legacy admissions? Well, the legacy, uh, opportunity did not exist for many people who are just now gaining access for the, from the 1950s and 1960s when you have this wave of women coming in and people of color. So in terms of race and gender and technological advancement. You know, there's a shift that's taking place and I think that, um, migration and, and if you look at the historiography of, of many of these institutions in America. In many ways, if you look at the story, there's one of omission, one of oppression. Mm-hmm. One of exclusion. If we're being honest about the legacy of, of learning in higher education. There's so many groups, uh, first generation students, uh, who, who have not had access. And many of those students did not have the privilege or the opportunity to benefit from American higher education institutions. Uh, even though when you think about technological advancement. You know, you know, we're talking now about AI and online learning, but I think, uh, when you look at Dr. Diana, Julia Cooper, her writings from a Voice from the South mm-hmm. And Dr. WEB Du Bois, who talked about the problem of the color line in the 20th century. Yeah. Right. Yeah. They were. I think providing for us a reminder and, uh, uh, an important way of thinking about society and, and, and one of inclusion plurality and, and collaboration.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:That somehow has gotten lost. Right. Reminding us that as we promote technological advancement, we have to be mindful of racial exclusion, racial, uh, obscurity, ways that, uh, we've been deliberate in terms of gender inequity, gender discrimination, w. What I think is important is to kind of look at not just process and mission, vision and values of institutions, but if we talk about mission, vision, and values and, and the administration that we're seeing right now, quite honestly in the United States, much of the work that has been done to promote a, a kind of pluralism within campus communities and looking at historical disenfranchisement, much of that has been taken away or has been, you know, removed from. The conversation is, is relates to recruitment, admissions, advancement of students and graduation, but also for faculty. Right. Faculty training. Many faculty have lost grants. Yeah. They don't have access to the same resources from the, the federal government when in times passed, there was an investment in science, technology, research, innovation, and so much of that has also been removed. And so then the question becomes. How do we invest and promote in a deliberate and intentional way, ways of thinking about technological advancement and its impact globally and what it means to American higher education in the 21st century digital era. Here's the other thing, and, and I hate to be the one to have to say this, I'm not alone, but we need courageous leadership. Where are the courageous leaders who are willing to be honest about where we've been, right where we are now and where we need to be? And if, and if we're really serious. About investing in learning research excellence, research innovation, and how technology can better society. Then we have to be honest about the vestiges of, of racism, of oppression that are still inherent in many of the systems that are in operation. Absolutely. We had to be honest about it.
Speaker:Absolutely. And I don't
Speaker 4:think that, um. In, in the time that we're living in, many institutions have felt the ability to do that. So if, if we're not doing that and there's, and then there's this feeling of, of backlash and that we've gotta kind of, you know, really maneuver in a way that is kind of obscure or not deliberate, then. What does that mean in terms of our digital presence and how we understand our identity, not just as, as, as, as individuals, but as communities mm-hmm. As institutions, yes. That are part of communities. Yes. And what does that mean in terms of interracial inter ethic connections that are transnational and that are global? And I don't, I, I think people are almost, there's a sense of being overwhelmed or just, um. Depleted or just a sense of, of despair, if I'm being honest, from people who are in leadership because it's kind of like, well, we're trying to do the day to day and we're so overwhelmed with the, the upheaval that has taken place that we can't even really quote unquote deal with that. It's kind of like, well, if we don't deal with that. Then we're gonna be playing catch up instead of being at the forefront and being intentional about this work.
Speaker:Right. Right. Because we are at a place where we can set the platform that's right now. Yes. Right. To avoid replicating. That's right. The same kinds of inequities. That's
Speaker 6:right.
Speaker:Um, or we can try and fix it on the back end, which obviously
Speaker 4:Right. Exactly. Exactly. Why not be visionary, courageous, and bold in terms of how we move forward. Mm-hmm. And, and that is what my hope is. And I think your questions actually, both of them point to that, you know, if, if we're serious about global technological advancement, and I mean that serious,
Speaker 5:serious,
Speaker 4:intentional, that's right. You have to be intentional. We have to prioritize it. Then we have to look at ways that migration operates, ways that race operates within systems and, and what that means in terms of the historicity of how our institutions have functioned and what that means for. How we operate currently, but how we wanna operate going forward. And I think your, your second question about the digital presence. H how do we become relevant and innovative in terms of our digital presence in 2025 and beyond? What does the next 25, 50, 100 years look like? Right. How do, how do we imagine a future? Right. What are technological futures? Uh, what do they look like and how are we preparing to set the way for the current students and the students after them, and the students after them? And I think what Anna Julia Cooper and what WEB Du Bois did is. To raise those questions, right? Like, what, what does it look like now? But how can we be imaginative? How can we bolden and visionary? And I think to some extent, Dr. Rha Benjamin raises this about imagination. Sure. Intellectual imagination, being creative, but being sensitive to, uh, the dynamics and, and how we think about race, uh, particularly within the 21st century global context and what opportunities that provides to kind of. Allow us to evaluate our positions, our positionality, and to be honest about the, the various social identities that we bring to the space. And so I introduced myself as an African American woman, but, but I have to be very clear, I'm an African American woman from the south. Mm-hmm. Right from Chesapeake, Virginia. And so having that southern upbringing and some of my, you know, my husband's family, they're from Mississippi and Louisiana, so they're like, well, Virginia's not the real south, you know, but it is to me, right? And so it's, it's having that sense of upbringing and understanding, uh, that informs my work. As, as a scholar, as a researcher, as a higher educator, uh, global, higher educator, administrator.'cause primarily my career has been in the, the North Atlantic, the mid, the Mid-Atlantic and the Northeast. Not by choice, it's just those are the institutions I applied to. Those were the ones that accepted me and supported my work as well as being, uh, at Oxford. And so my identity, uh, is very multifaceted and, and, and so I bring that sensitivity with me to my, the spaces that I can't just look at someone in a, in a one dimensional way.
Speaker 5:Absolutely. Yeah. And so
Speaker 4:the work that we do has to demand greater rigor and greater sophistication. Mm-hmm. We have to hold executive leaders. Um, we have to hold them with more. I think there has to be greater accountability and, and greater expectations, and I think we have to provide more support to faculty. But I would also say our educators are elementary and secondary educators. Uh, what are best practices that we can provide that provide opportunities for learning, growth and development that are intentional with regards to not just ai, but technological advancement? What does a 21st century classroom look like at its best?
Speaker 5:Okay. Right, right. That's really what what I hear. Yeah. If we can envision it, yes.
Speaker:Yeah. If we can envision it, then we can be intentional about moving in that direction.
Speaker 5:Yes.
Speaker:Yes. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:That's why I love your question. That's what I hear. Mm-hmm. And as someone, you know, coming to the table with a global higher education lens, this excites me because technology is a resource and it's a tool. And if we think about the global context of it, there's so much potential. I see. you know, my daughter, she's 25, and my son, he's 22. You know, their generation and how they are connected to the global community was very different than what my experience was as a college student. Right. But it's exciting because they understand their place in the global community, and I think it allows us to then also be creative. And to be deliberate and intentional about how they can engage with one another. How, how they can provide opportunities to learn from one another. And so I think what it requires is in many ways a reorientation of how we think about leadership training, leadership development, professional development, professional training, uh, and making that something that we. Institutionalize. Mm-hmm. And, and what does it look like to have collectives, workshops, seminars, symposia, that allow us to have toolkits and resources so that we can learn from one another? And I, I, I'll have to create, I guess, some kind of. Um, ongoing, uh, list of resources that I can share, and I'm happy to, you know, provide that as a, a follow up because I think there are some people who are really doing great work and opportunities for ongoing learning that we need to just commit to doing so that we're doing this work and understand that it's a lifelong commitment. It's not kind of a one and done type of thing, but we're my, my job. I feel, and as a parent, but also in the classroom, is to create what I did for my kids is to, to educate them, to be global citizens. But I feel that way about my students. I want my students to be global citizens, and I want them to also be lifelong learners. So whatever you get in my class, that's kind of like an introduction, even if it's kind of a, you know, advanced seminar or a graduate course, but. I want them to feel a responsibility to want to learn more and to understand you have to commit to learning and doing this work for life. Yes. And so what does that mean in terms of our own personalized curriculum that we learn from or that we develop and to create a lifelong learning plan?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:That's exciting.
Speaker:And that's the key here, is that this becomes part of how we approach education. That's right. That we, we think about it from this. That's right. Focus. Global citizens is the goal. Right? That's right. And so
Speaker 6:I love it. I love it. Okay. You see the vision? I do. I, I, I am completely with you on this. I see your vision.
Speaker 4:Well, it's a shared vision. That's the beauty of it. And when people. Have that shared vision and that sense of possibility.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:It's exciting because then it's a, a matter of creating the space to dream, creating the space to imagine the future, and thinking about how global technological advancement can be a resource to making that a reality.
Speaker:Thank you for sharing your thoughts for the podcast. I super appreciate it.
Speaker 4:Thank you. And thank you for the great work that you do and for creating the space to ask these questions and for us to be able to collaborate, engage, and dream together. Thank you. I really appreciate it.
Speaker:As an educator and social scientist, both of these scholars insights resonated deeply with me. Dr. Martin's work is such a great example of the potential for social media to further our research, and Dr. Jackson Weaver helped me learn to think about AI as a tool to educate my students. Still, these technological advances are ripe for abuse in ways that make Bipoc more vulnerable. We'll keep exploring this topic on our next episode where we'll hear a student's perspective on the role of social media and activism. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Intersectionality in the American South. Follow us on Twitter or Instagram at intersex South. For additional resources, visit our website at sites.gsu.edu/intersex south slash Please use the contact us feature to leave us a comment, let us know what topics you want to hear us cover on the show. And don't forget to subscribe to Catch every new episode. Leave us a review to help us get the word out to others. See you next month.