#20 The Business Of Surfing, with Aaron Trevis, CEO and Founder of Surf Lakes

The Business Of Surfing, with Aaron Trevis, CEO and Founder of Surf Lakes

My guest today is Aaron Trevis.  Aaron is the CEO and Founder of Surf Lakes, a company which provides a technologically advanced wave-generating device to wave park project developers around the world. Since its establishment in July 2016, Surf Lakes has grown to become a holistic solution provider for world-leading surf park destinations. Surf Lakes’ strategy is to develop surfing communities, enhance lifestyles, and bring economic benefits and employment to regions around the world. 

Some of the highlights of our conversation include finding the balance between accountability and appreciation, the biggest highs and the lowest lows in the Surf Lakes journey so far, staying calm while everyone around you is breaking down, generating 30,000 smiles a day, a really healthy addiction, and safety in a multitude of advisors.

If you'd like to learn more about Surf Lakes, go to: https://www.surflakes.com 

Check out the Surf Lakes technology in action here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJDG-Lp5JZM

To learn more about what it takes to be an evolved leader, and to check out our other podcast episodes, go to:  https://www.evolvedstrategy.com.au

Chapters

• 7:24 Finding the balance between accountability and appreciation
• 17:24 The biggest highs and the lowest lows in the Surf Lakes journey so far
• 20:24 Staying calm while everyone around you is breaking down
• 30:09 Generating 30,000 smiles a day
• 31:39 A really healthy addiction
• 37:09 Safety in a multitude of advisors

Transcript

00:00.00
Aaron Trevis
Hey thanks David great to be here.

00:01.72
davidmcdermott
Aaron welcome to the show.

00:06.69
davidmcdermott
So we'll start with your leadership journey Aaron tell us a bit about that.

00:08.42
Aaron Trevis
Well, it's interesting for me really the first leadership opportunity I had was at school I went to yeoonn state high and was elected as school Captain. So thrust into you know early learnings on dealing with. Various officials and parties and speaking in publict cetera so that was that was helpful. You know it gave you a bit of a bit of a taste and you learned some lessons the hard way from there I I managed to get selected to the Australian Defence Force Academy which is. I guess the top gun academy I was in the air force. There was a tri forces academy and again, there's a lot of input there on your leadership development but I was 17 and there was dollar drinks at the bar and so i. Didn't pass everything that first year and decided that perhaps this isn't for me. So also I learned some good things I also picked up some bad habits and then continued on with university not really focused much on leadership until excuse. But so. But then I finished my mining degree and was was pressing on into a career in what was underground metaliferous coal mining where as an engineer you're expected to progress into the management ranks and and I had an interesting time where I started.

01:14.52
davidmcdermott
Um.

01:30.87
Aaron Trevis
I actually joined Amway as a distributor as ah as a young man and they got on this book of the book of the month program and for the first time I started to you know, develop skills outside of the core professional space if that makes sense and so there was a lot of those things which I found incredibly helpful. To apply into the professional field so you know I remember reading the 7 habits of highly effective people and started to apply that in the professional sense and it was incredibly helpful. You realize that? Um, yeah, there's there's things that you can apply and and and your. Really given leadership opportunities then because you're organized and you're actually you know making an effort over and above just doing your core job if that makes sense. So yeah, that was a bit of ah, an eye opener for me recognizsing that you have professional development but leadership is often something different to your core. Skills right? and so a leader and a manager and then understanding the difference between management and leadership in that journey as well and and being around good and bad examples of both of those you know helps sort of set the the benchmark for me as to what leadership looks like.

02:27.30
davidmcdermott
Yes.

02:44.13
Aaron Trevis
And so it's it's been a pretty fascinating journey for me and then out of that I actually had an opportunity to get promoted but it was time away from home and so if I finished that career for the sake of my family moved to Brisbane and worked in executive search where I was finding leaders for company. So starting off with senior engineering roles. But. Into you know, seasuite rolls for major mining oil and gas and engineering organisations. So again, it was learning but by association in one sense, you know I was yeah recruiting people for companies that were far more senior than me in rank and maturity and experience. But. You know I had to connect and relate to these guys and so again it was that itself would for me was a really good lesson in leadership as you're gleaning from these people their own journeys and you get the chance as a recruiter to ask all sorts of awkward questions that would be very impolite to ask in a normal setting but you have to do that. To test these people and put them through the paces on behalf of your client and so yeah I just found that really really interesting. Um to to delve into their journeys and what makes them tech and why they should be the right person for this particular role and yeah, some significant significant role. So um.

03:59.47
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah.

04:01.18
Aaron Trevis
So that's been very helpful. Um, from there I got called to serve into a christian not-for-prot as the national executive director. So that was you know a being dropped into a national leadership role of membership of you know. Two and a half thousand people in a hundred different locations with the budget of a small to medium enterprise right? So managing volunteers as well as staff was was a really really interesting and very different to your normal commercial environment. Um, where. You know leaders ah and leading volunteers can be very different to leading you know, professional and paid employees. And yeah, so so again I just found that challenging but incredibly helpful because.

04:47.79
davidmcdermott
100% yeah

04:55.59
Aaron Trevis
You have to encourage and inspire and and and you know exercise gratitude for service which as I believe now as you apply that back in the commercial setting is actually the right way to lead everyone not just volunteers because people are essentially volunteering to work in your company. They.

05:12.20
davidmcdermott
Um, you know.

05:15.30
Aaron Trevis
They don't have to be there. They're choosing every day to turn up and so finding the balance between accountability and appreciation is yeah has been really helpful and so that that Context. Of leading Volunteers I found very very helpful. Ah well, ah, finding it helpful now that I'm in this business leadership.

05:34.15
davidmcdermott
Um.

05:40.71
davidmcdermott
It's ah it's a really interesting point and I love that you've you drawn out the principle of service leadership I'm a great fan of Patrick lension you know who's pretty well known in the the leadership development world and yeah, his book getting naked the motive 5 dysfunctions of a team and.

05:52.63
Aaron Trevis
Um, yeah.

05:57.49
davidmcdermott
I was reading recently he he finds when people talk about service-based leadership. He it really frustrates him that term because he he says I mean it. It should just be a no brainer that leadership is service-based it shouldn't have to be specifically called out as a unique style of leadership it. It is of course.

06:02.20
Aaron Trevis
Um, yeah.

06:11.40
Aaron Trevis
Yes, that's it. Yeah, so you know it's It's always a tension. You do have your your situational leadership. You know moments where you have to apply certain sort of skills to to deal with the situation but to me there's this.

06:16.87
davidmcdermott
The core of true leadership.

06:30.40
davidmcdermott
E.

06:30.90
Aaron Trevis
Values-based and and and core experience of of serving others. Not that you're subservient. But I guess you know I'm a big believer in compassionate Capitalism. Playing out that there's there's firm boundaries. There's firm accountabilities. There's results that you have to get and we expect people to put in their time plus one but the services Then how do I grow people as Leaders. You know if I'm not serving my team and helping them.

06:56.46
davidmcdermott
Um.

07:00.86
Aaron Trevis
Develop as leaders I've I've failed them and failed the organisation and so to me, there's no option but to grow leadership to grow others to give them the best opportunity within the realms of your capability and and opportunity of the company. So that they can thrive and become they can be and so there's a ah sequence ah in my mind that if if I look after the team well and grow them. Well they will look after the customer then the shareholders will will reap that So there's sewing and reaping and and it starts with me. Doing the best for the team and the core because it's the only way it works in my head I don't see it working well or sustaining any other way if that makes sense.

07:40.43
davidmcdermott
M.

07:48.42
davidmcdermott
Yeah, and that you know that's you as that you are ah thinking as the true Ceo that if you can grow and develop ah a really high-per performing leadership team. It's a nobra of that the organization is going to be successful and. Deliver value to to all its stakeholders including shareholders being one of them customers clients the internal team themselves suppliers, etc.

08:07.90
Aaron Trevis
Um, that's right? yeah.

08:11.76
Aaron Trevis
So That's that's the principle I Guess yeah, then applying that going From. You know my own sort of little recruiting business at one stage and then getting into developing surf lakekes as a startup man you pick up a whole range of other lessons in that startup Journey. It's all very Nice. Theory. But then you've got to lead yourself and your family and others through that What can be agonizing phase but it's it's then more vision led right? So you can. You can see where the the prize is big enough so it'll draw you along and draw others along as Well. So I get.

08:31.94
davidmcdermott
No.

08:49.76
Aaron Trevis
Looking back. It's fair to say I've probably been a better leader than Manager I've got a lot to learn in terms of the day-to-day management skills. But I think in some of the core areas of leadership. We've managed to do that and attract a team and thankfully our product is so exciting enough that.

08:56.66
davidmcdermott
English.

09:07.43
Aaron Trevis
You know I don't have to try too hard to attract good leaders but you do have to foster it and build the culture and build the values base so that it sustains and and Triman maintain that as well and that's the hard part is where you do have to actually let some people go because there's no way they're going to breed a good.

09:14.83
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

09:26.66
Aaron Trevis
Culture and you have to protect that so that it's ah yeah, so anyway I it is yeah that's right, um and and and I guess I'm learning to trust my instincts and experience more with that.

09:30.62
davidmcdermott
Indeed Yeah, this is get the right people on the ship.

09:44.28
Aaron Trevis
That even though someone might present well with the skills base if their heart's not right or they they they aren't of the right sort of stuff or integrity if you like then it's it's either a very short term thing or it's dangerous ground to be plowed. It shouldn't be there really.

10:00.29
davidmcdermott
Yeah now I do really want to dive into the story of surfflakes in a way up to now and I really want listeners to hear the.

10:11.11
Aaron Trevis
Ah, yes.

10:14.67
davidmcdermott
The crunchy stuff of that. But I also want to ask I know surfflak is not your first business and and you have you know that you have other milestones in your entrepreneurial journey. Can you mention? Ah, whatever's significant around.

10:16.91
Aaron Trevis
The point.

10:28.43
Aaron Trevis
Yeah now I think it's really important looking at the entrepreneurial journey of starflakkes when we go back to some of the early efforts that I had my my wife and I had bought a store in Mackay when I was a mining engineer and she was looking for.

10:29.74
davidmcdermott
Yourre your entrepreneuriale endeavours before Surf lakes.

10:47.60
Aaron Trevis
Something else to do and so we worked together building this what was called Budget baby gear. It was not easy working together and trying to build that up and so there were some really interesting lessons there in in that retail space on what to do and not to and and you know working together as husband and wife so that did that that was a bit of a fail that one. Um.

11:00.00
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah.

11:06.20
Aaron Trevis
You know I've I've started started Amway businesses I've done you know window cleaning. Um I actually had a really interesting project which was an invention to replace shuttle cars in the underground coal mines which took some momentum and we managed to get. Ah, big engineering group to come on board with an r and d start grant we won three point one million dollars of federal government funding to develop this what we were trying to do a mining company on board to fund the other three and a half so the engineering company didn't really have to cough up the money we were very close with a group and then. They got bought out by another mining company which sort of scattered the budget. The people and everything and so at the end I was left holding the can and this engineering company and fair enough said no we we can't really afford to yeah, risk three million bucks on this project and so they pulled out. And so that was tough that was really hard to make a decision there face the truth of yeah, how much do I believe is this idea when I've got you know I was working for myself in my own little recruiting company at the time so a bit of a glutton for punishment here with these self-loyment world and then this project. And then I had a wife from three young kids and so I had to make the decision there to stay married and just let that one go which was really hard because you know when you when you can see it so close and you got funding and and we almost had the funding. You know we had the government funding. We just didn't get the other half in the end. So yeah, that was.

12:30.41
davidmcdermott
Ah.

12:38.30
davidmcdermott
Me in.

12:39.17
Aaron Trevis
That was learning to deal with loss and failure and I remember saying you some at the time you know I could head down the and Nba path and spend the time and money on that or I could take this entrepreneurial journey and yeah I remember thinking gee the Nba would have been a lot cheaper than this one but but the the less of the value.

12:57.27
davidmcdermott
Sure.

12:57.30
Aaron Trevis
Because I think what I've gained out of it is is this ah you recognize the emotional rollercoster. You recognize the reality of working you know some seven days a week through the exhaustion still having to perform and turn up and. And and you just can't get that out of textbooks and studies right? There's just the the leadership in the trenches as an entrepreneur and as a business owner. It's it's very difficult to package up and and train that it's something I think you just need to experience and what it gives you is a resilience and. Ah, and a confidence in your ability to to navigate that sort of chaos at times which has been incredibly helpful. Um, because when I've applied that surf lake yeah, you could have quit a thousand times but I didn't because you know know that there's a solution there. You can step up and.

13:36.18
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah.

13:47.10
davidmcdermott
Yep.

13:52.60
Aaron Trevis
Find a solution some other way.

13:56.38
davidmcdermott
So let's let's shift to surfates and yeah, what what? you're talking about is a realworl Mba which is far more useful than the the academic qualification not to um, downplay that that's useful too. But yeah, it really comes to life when you're when you're actually in the in the trenches.

14:01.38
Aaron Trevis
Um, yeah, yeah, that's it.

14:14.86
davidmcdermott
Living it every day you know in in real organizations that have a purpose and mission in the world and ah and in a leadership position particularly so at Surf Lakess Yeahs As you said it's a really interesting and exciting business with ah with a big vision. It's surfing everyone loves surfing.

14:15.36
Aaron Trevis
Um, yes, yeah.

14:34.12
davidmcdermott
And you've got this um technology that can generate up to nine foot waves as the the prototype is ah can cancurrently produce the full scale prototype in yourpoon and we'll put a video in the show notes. So that listeners can check out some of some of that footage and what what of some of the.

14:36.87
Aaron Trevis
Um, yeah.

14:45.78
Aaron Trevis
Um, yeah.

14:54.00
davidmcdermott
The biggest highs and the biggest lows been in the journey so far up to now.

14:55.54
Aaron Trevis
Yeah I think for me, it was very much a step of faith to jump into this and my wife trusted me to even start the journey so that was exciting knowing that you've got something which could be really valuable. But. Yeah there's just a lot of grunt work for me in getting that to a point where you believe in the product yourself, you've proven it enough to then take it to the market. So there's this moment in time as an inventor where you have to actually face the public or someone with your idea and say here it is. You know, can you back me on this and it's ah it's a real moment of truth when I had you know family and friends of course um that the family friends and fools with the small amounts is 1 thing but then to have a a foundation investor come in with a 6 figure sum to help make this real was was. Sobering exhilarating scary all at the same time because now the risk levels are going up. You know, suddenly this is real money that I'm putting into a hole and I believe it can work but I hadn't proven it yet and so yeah, so that was that was.

16:05.10
davidmcdermott
Who.

16:05.76
Aaron Trevis
Like I said it was a high and a low all at the same time if that makes sense you you take a big death and dive in through that there was many Agonizings moments where you just weren't getting the result and had to keep pressing on to do it. Um, and then these serious deadlines where.

16:10.92
davidmcdermott
You.

16:24.21
Aaron Trevis
And I had three days left on one particular on this 1 prototype site where the owner just said look enough. You've got ah you've got to pack that thing away and get off the site and managed to get her investor there I had to work seventeen days straight and you know 3 nights of sort of. 3 hours sleep no hour sleep 3 hours sleep to get the thing finished so that was probably the most exhausting thing I've ever done in my life and I'd run out of favors credit card family had had enough. Everyone had had enough. It was just me in the lake right? So so that was that that was the real moment of truth for me where I had to just.

16:45.74
davidmcdermott
Ah, you.

16:50.48
davidmcdermott
M. Yeah, yeah.

16:59.30
Aaron Trevis
Going you know or or quit that was you know, just hours left to get the result and we did and and you know Reuben Buchanan turned up that day and then put his money on the table and then the next day we pulled in the excavators and flattened it and kept going so it was you know down to the wire down to the hours. Um, so that was again I'd call that a low point but then also a high point as you sail out the other side of that thinking. Wow we're alive you know like it was you've escaped. You've escaped another train wreck. Um, and so then the journey continues gone. So yeah, it's been It's been incredible I mean for us.

17:19.88
davidmcdermott
Me.

17:30.50
davidmcdermott
M.

17:38.40
Aaron Trevis
Then? yeah, fast forward to the various prototypes and we got the full scale unit built inipoon and we got some waves which was incredible people surfing on these waves which was incredible and then we completely broke the machine and had to start all over again. It was dramatic. But what was fascinating to me is I had such belief in what we were doing and where we were going that when that machine yeah literally broke in front of us I was incredibly calm and you know I had engineers crying and you know like people just in a state of shock.

18:13.74
davidmcdermott
E t.

18:17.67
Aaron Trevis
But I think I'd been through enough and realised that no this This is just a speed hump that I could manage to rally the troops and get that together and and and off we went again. So I was proud of that moment that was ah whilst it was an incredible challenge I was relieved that I didn't fall apart in the midst of that. If that makes sense. So yeah, with a highlight? Yeah odd. Ah Absolutely absolutely no, it was. It was really shocking and and and shocking at a big scale now.

18:41.90
davidmcdermott
Um, and if the engineers were crying if the engineers were crying. It must have been pretty bad for for an engineer to shed it to you.

18:56.15
Aaron Trevis
You know it's it's the equivalent of you know Spacex blowing up another rocket. It's that sort of thing. So a rapid unscheduled assembly right? So um, but the difference is yeah.

18:58.23
davidmcdermott
Um.

19:03.24
davidmcdermott
Yeah, yeah, but you stayed calm so I so you stayed calm Aaron and I just want to explore that what what was it. Ah, but whether it was about how you were showing up that day or um or what was going on for you in terms of your you know your clarity but in your words you're you're the one who experienced it how how were you able to stay calm in that moment.

19:32.80
Aaron Trevis
Ah, look for for Me. There's a very strong spiritual faith and and and a belief that there's more to this than just you know the science and work behind it. So So there's ah I guess ah more of a global perspective on Life. You know that. This is just a speed bump in general and it's not my main game if you like so there's there's that perspective you know and I've always said that to my family is that there's an incredible pool of shoot and I'm super excited and grateful but compared to you know any of my children.

20:01.98
davidmcdermott
And.

20:08.74
Aaron Trevis
You know it pales into insignificance. My yeah, my wife and children my marriage and children are priceless. This is a business right? So it It So at times like that you get that perspective. Okay, what's really important. Okay, they're really important and and it's this is nothing like them. In terms of its value. So It's going to be. Okay, yeah, so so that helps so having that faith and having that perspective really helps because as excited as I am and passionate and driven as I am it's still you know I'm not going to sacrifice my family or my marriage for it So you got to find that.

20:31.41
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

20:45.55
Aaron Trevis
Perspective to navigate through and and you know it's It's not always.. It's easier said than done because you do work incredibly hard. But yeah I Guess that's probably my way of describing it. It's it's It's a big game but it's not the big game of life. Does that make sense.

21:05.57
davidmcdermott
Um, really cool. Thank you for Yeah, thank you for shifting and the conversation to to the level of perspective. It's such a great point and I I really love to. Dive right in but that we potentially would have um, an entire podcast interview just on that and I don't want to miss I don't want to miss the surf flake's story ah in terms of you know what's coming and and where you're currently at I'll just I'll just quickly summarize. You know, facilitating your strategy review day early this year um that

21:23.70
Aaron Trevis
Um, yeah.

21:27.69
Aaron Trevis
Um, yeah.

21:40.67
davidmcdermott
You know the business now has you know, almost 20 licenses sold globally, you've got a focus on getting the first site open to the public and yeah, you've got a really great team on board very high quality people who who love being in the business and are very passionate about what what the vision is you've got to.

21:41.23
Aaron Trevis
Um, yes.

21:58.40
davidmcdermott
Um, an operational mission to to see a hundred sites operating by 2040 at you know all the major so locations around the world. Um, what? What would you like to see ah this business achieve that. Um you know. In your words is is how you would express it.

22:18.60
Aaron Trevis
Yeah, though, it's a big one I mean we have ah a vision of creating a healthier world by building surfing communities and technology um sounds lofty but that actually is our our plan for me.

22:36.50
Aaron Trevis
As exciting as the surfing is I mean that to me has been a real gift you know back into it surfing of um you know, getting better every day um to me, it's got to have a higher goal to make it worthwhile staying passionate about right and and just waves is not enough. There's got to be an impact into the the communities that we're dealing with and. What we're seeing is that actually is happening and so so again, ah, underwriting the the purpose of the business with with that mission is really really important to me and that actually helps other people gather around that as well. So so the technologies. As cool as and we've got you know so many other ideas that we're going to be pursuing and developing the business performance is incredibly important shareholders have now given us you know I think 37000000 Australian dollars to get us this far big responsibility to give a return for right? So it's incredibly important. No I take that seriously. But what i'm. Realizing is you can actually have you know real I guess purpose in in business. It's not just for profits. You can actually make a really positive difference and be deliberate about that which then attracts what I believe is the best team which then serves the clients and they rally around that purpose to the point that.

23:34.46
davidmcdermott
Ah, the.

23:53.24
Aaron Trevis
Yeah, we've got a saying that you know the surf akes vortex people come into our vortex and they kind of never getting out right? It's just so exciting and compelling that we warn them so be be careful. Yeah, if you come in here, you probably you probably got to be into this for life. So don't take it lightly. And and that's been a real real treat to have that sort of following now not just on social media. But with the licensees with the team that we're really doing something special. It's it's like it's unlike any business I've ever been involved with and yeah quite proud of the team to help create something which.

24:12.62
davidmcdermott
Um, and.

24:14.58
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

24:31.75
Aaron Trevis
Will genuinely shift the needle in in health for people in opportunities whether it's adaptive surfers just middle- aged tragics like me who want to get fitter and healthier and that will have a ah flow-on effect to generations so yet alone the. Yeah opportunity of surfing in the Olympics and you know making really positive. You know, ah real estate developments around the world. So it's just layer upon layer of benefit and opportunity that we're facing and and I did not see that when I started like I just couldn't see that all I knew what that this is a cool idea. It's going to work.

24:51.34
davidmcdermott
Um.

25:03.60
davidmcdermott
Are a.

25:07.56
Aaron Trevis
And so I'm regularly encouraged by the response and what's happening and then the opportunity that flows out of that to do good by doing your business and that to me is quite profound.

25:24.40
davidmcdermott
Yup, and I I really love you know it's it's in your your marketing you talk about generating 2000 waves a day generating 2000 smiles a day and.

25:34.31
Aaron Trevis
Yeah, well not actually well, it's actually better than it's 2000 rides an hour so it's um, yeah, yeah, yeah, and what? um.

25:38.48
davidmcdermott
That to me is is actually significant.

25:45.11
davidmcdermott
Um, upper hour. Okay.

25:48.89
Aaron Trevis
And look. We know it works I mean we just running the the old prototype here with you know the rough conditions and what have you there but the waves are brilliant and I was joking the other day I said I've never been hugged so much in my life you got grown men you know hard-core Sur investors coming up and just getting you on a bear hug almost in tears because of the incredible euphoric experience. They.

26:04.89
davidmcdermott
Um, enough.

26:08.61
Aaron Trevis
These waves it just blows their mind. Yeah yeah, it really is it really is cool.

26:08.97
davidmcdermott
Yeah, the euphoria So when when these are up and running these sites over to the public. You know what? what could a full day of operating look like if it's.

26:25.55
Aaron Trevis
Yeah, yeah, well look at in a peak period in summer you could have 15 hours of waves or 16 hours of waves in a day. Yeah, you look at the sites. We've got.

26:27.12
davidmcdermott
You know and 2000 waves an hour not per day how many hours a day could the thing run realistically in ah in a commercial site.

26:42.34
Aaron Trevis
Well even in Australia but the the bigger ones in America 90 minute radius you've got 17000000 people now you know that's that's a lot of people and and not just the surfers but those who want to learn the surf and come and enjoy the perimeter.

26:54.33
davidmcdermott
Um.

26:57.75
Aaron Trevis
We just don't see a world where these things aren't full of people day. Um ah day and day out because already the feedback response is my goodness if you can create this Inland ocean with waves that are ah better than anything you see most times in the ocean anyway and they're accessible and you can like it's just fantasy land.

27:07.22
davidmcdermott
Yep.

27:17.13
Aaron Trevis
You know? So so we we we know and it's not just for the surface I mean what? what are shareholders who just don't surf at all. But they love the cool factor of the machine and the whole experience and the market and where it's going and and even here at youroon we got plenty of people who just turn up to look at it.

27:19.41
davidmcdermott
It is.

27:31.90
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

27:34.51
Aaron Trevis
Just want to see the thing operate and see the waves and it's a real spectacle by itself before you put in the the experiences of it and so that that will will be wherever it goes.

27:37.27
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

27:43.70
davidmcdermott
Yeah, it totally. It's an extremely positive product and that's what struck me about it from the beginning you know when and when I first started working with the business and 2000

27:58.93
Aaron Trevis
Um, yeah, yeah, so.

28:02.94
davidmcdermott
Smiles an hour is if you pack it out in peak peak period in a busy in a busy area. You could get it. You know 30000 smiles a day plus generating from the machine and you'll you'll have a whole range in terms of your um your customers. But you.

28:03.88
Aaron Trevis
Um, yeah.

28:09.93
Aaron Trevis
Um, it's a um.

28:18.50
Aaron Trevis
Um, yet.

28:18.73
davidmcdermott
I see you know the teenage kid who could be sitting playing call of duty for 8 hours a day if he if he gets hooked on a surflake. He can be out and you know getting hundreds of waves potentially until he's so exhausted. He comes home exhausted yes, but super happy physically much fitter. You know, um.

28:31.43
Aaron Trevis
Yes.

28:38.38
davidmcdermott
Compare that with the effects of being in front of a screen you know playing a pretty violent video game for the same period of time. It's It's ah, not Rocket science How this how this is a benefit to the planet.

28:40.78
Aaron Trevis
Yeah, absolutely yeah and you know we we've all got our own story of that where you know because this is yeah coming now and available in even in the demo form suddenly I'm more health conscious you know i'm. Training stretching surfing more working on my skill like it's it's happening to me. You know when I first started this I hadn't thought for years I literally could I was so stiff and unfit I couldn't even stand up on a surfboard and yeah, just on the weekend I went to Northern New south wales I was tackling some pretty heavy sort of drops. And making it time and time again I thought wow this is transformed. You know my view. Um for the better like I've you know it's it's it's that sort of that sort of impact now. It's a really healthy addiction I think I think it's a very very.

29:27.47
davidmcdermott
Oh.

29:38.82
Aaron Trevis
And that will tell.

29:39.66
davidmcdermott
So just to understand your your practice on the waves you're practicing on the and you know the actual prototype in your poon has has built out your skill know in the ocean you're able to surf heavier waves more capably is that right.

29:51.46
Aaron Trevis
Yes, yeah, that's right and and and there's there's there's There's certainly that from the from the Lake has helped a lot but then it's the association of other surfers who are excited about that and and the other providers and coaches who come around that.

29:59.40
davidmcdermott
Very very cool.

30:11.60
Aaron Trevis
And so you again you're learning from all of these others right? and so that community starts to grow and so when you get a positive community that aaging it a hey well look. Yeah, you don't have to have five alcoholic drinks just have one and and let's go for surf to my room work on your health and fitness instead. Because it's just as exhiing as you know what have you? So so I can genuinely see that Shift. You know happening already in our small world and that'll multiply out into to many others and that like you said it's an incredibly positive thing to do. We're kind of tricking people to be healthy and and um.

30:30.10
davidmcdermott
E.

30:48.13
Aaron Trevis
And moving more and and that becomes the culture that becomes the norm. That's a good thing and the coolest place in the world to hang out is where you're you know on a skateboard around the park or running around looking at the waves or in the waves or you know on the climbing wall or whatever it is so that becomes the norm that becomes the place to be.

30:49.59
davidmcdermott
Totally.

31:09.22
davidmcdermott
Um, so leadership. What? yeah yeah, the surf ake's business model is incredibly cool and um yeah, we've just been exploring that a little to a little.

31:17.96
Aaron Trevis
Yeah, yeah.

31:24.33
davidmcdermott
Bit of depth just in terms of what we can get through in this interview in terms of leadership. What do you see will be. You know a ah significant challenge and for what you what you're aiming to achieve moving forward.

31:36.61
Aaron Trevis
Yeah, so there's this layers to it I guess where I've had to adjust and learn is you're you're leading the team internally. But then as Ceo you're reporting to a board which I've found very difficult and I've had to you know, adjust. I've had to exercise leadership in that sort of leading upwards as well as sideways and downwards if that makes sense and so how I lead the board and receive that leadership is incredibly important.

32:05.66
davidmcdermott
Me.

32:10.27
Aaron Trevis
So that's been probably the hardest lesson for me partly because we didn't do it well anyway in the selection process originally. But now we've got a pretty solid board. So yeah, that's been if I if I'd say the surprising thing or the most challenging thing for me is to. Learn to submit to the leaders of others when you know you want to be the heroic Ceo taking this to the world but you don't get it all your own way. You know you're not the controlling shareholder anymore and so that you have to dig deep to that you know and this is you know working with yourself as you know as a coach is is already helpful.

32:35.79
davidmcdermott
A.

32:45.35
Aaron Trevis
Ah, working with Don Mackenzie from the dc's group and understanding the stages of company growth and how as a founder as well. You know you you've got an even greater responsibility because she can be the most disruptive influence in a company if you're not careful and so. That's that's been I guess the the big aha which I know it sounds ridiculously obvious. But when you're in the thick of it. You don't always realize the impact of your words and behavior on others and you know both up and down and to the shareholders and so again, it comes back to leading myself better. And disciplining myself in how I lead that team as well as the management team and the shareholders. It's been a sobering but healthy healthy reality because the the point is whatever I do you know from here, you're just going to have to deal with.

33:31.48
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

33:42.29
Aaron Trevis
People that you have to surrender to whether it's government whether it's a board whether it's clients and you know I mean so there's a maturity process there required which again often you don't learn until you go through a few bumps yourself and and experience it in its in its poor form as well as you know the positive form.

33:49.24
davidmcdermott
Yep.

34:01.50
davidmcdermott
Yes, and we've we've almost run out of time Aaron but for listeners and you know there'll there'll be a whole bunch of business owners listening in and and they may or may not be you know at exactly that point that you're speaking about. Maybe they. They have that yet to come. Maybe they went through it. Maybe they are right in the thick of all all of that at the moment. What what would be a tip that you would give you know someone who who's currently there or might be there in the at some point in the future and you know you went through it and.

34:20.67
Aaron Trevis
Um, death.

34:35.68
davidmcdermott
And you tried various things and some I know some things worked well and and others not so much but what? what would be a ah top tip that you'd share with listeners regarding that particular experience of um of leadership.

34:46.65
Aaron Trevis
Ah I think there's ah, there's a great saying is that there's safety in a multitude of advisors and I think for me this journey has been so far. What I would say beyond my pay grade that I had no choice but to draw on advice. Um. And then I've had to learn to you know, lean on others. Ah and and again just humble yourself to recognize that you you may not like the personality but the advice you know is right? So you go and take it anyway. So That's been a really helpful thing but the same time.

35:17.65
davidmcdermott
Are.

35:20.46
Aaron Trevis
There are moments where you've just got to have the courage to trust your own instinct and experience as well. Even if you disagree and so there's there's this balance between drawing on the advice but knowing that you know if you truly believe that what you you know your process is the best one Then It's okay to fight a little bit and stand up for that and as long as you don't you know. Fight dirty and try to pull everyone in the right Direction. So So yeah, so that's been attention for me is is is drawing on a lot of advice and a lot of different advisors and and trusting that you know where I don't know better but where I think I do know better I've had to. Self more and and and that's played out a number of different ways where I've I've learnt to have more confidence in my views in some things other things I don't have a clue so I get the right advice and just take it and run with it.

35:57.80
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

36:13.34
davidmcdermott
Perfect and to finish there are really 3 types of people who I want you to and address here one is of course potential customers of the waves in the future. You know how can they stay in touch with ah with progress and when there's.

36:21.78
Aaron Trevis
Um, yeah.

36:30.66
davidmcdermott
Sites opening to the public to investors if people are interested in getting involved as investors. You know how can they do that what opportunities are there and 3 you know whether it's developers or similar groups that might actually be interested in in speaking with surffl akes about becoming a licensee. How can they do that.

36:41.29
Aaron Trevis
Yeah, yeah, well I think for for those that are interested in the the development the licensee we've mapped out our top 100 sites in the world. We've got 17 signed up so that leaves 83 to go. Yeah, we've had. More than 20 other discussions in the pipeline so they'll fill up pretty fast. So I'd encourage you if you're serious then to make contact pretty quickly through our website. There's an opportunity to just contact us there or through social media we are. Ah, looking for investment still for surf lakes and for our projects and so there's no shortage of opportunities there. So and it's starting to now get into you know the the bigger end of town with institutional money and financial institutions as well. And so that's really encouraging to see that appetite growing. For you know each of the projects can be 100000000 plus so there's a lot of support coming to the industry. But obviously we're still open to conversations there for sure. Um, yeah, so from that perspective and I guess for you know for others who who. To get involved in some way. Yeah we've've we've got a strong social media presence so reach out with us if you got a service an idea or you know some people call us for what they want to work with us and that's okay, too. We. We're always looking for good people.

38:03.58
davidmcdermott
Cool and of course yeah, the Tiktok and and other social media platforms if you want to stay in touch with the waves coming out of the prototype and and and progress towards sites sites being open to the public just follow, follow the social media that you guys are pretty active with that.

38:09.90
Aaron Trevis
Yeah.

38:14.86
Aaron Trevis
Yeah, well actually they that's right and now on yeah on our website you can just subscribe to our regular updates and emails as well. And so so that best way to get regular updates from us as well as the social media and we'll be launching a subscription.

38:22.30
davidmcdermott
And old platforms.

38:34.61
Aaron Trevis
Model for um, for people preparing to come and surf in the parks and stay connected that way as well later in the year so lots of opportunity.

38:44.53
davidmcdermott
And we'll do it. We're going to do a part 2 interview a little bit down the track. So hopefully we'll have an update on that particular aspect and more when we have a part to Aaron. Thank you so much that was thoroughly stimulating. Thanks for your time.

38:46.50
Aaron Trevis
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:58.33
Aaron Trevis
Ah, good said did it did it meet them meet the need. Yeah well thanks Mate I Really appreciate it. You did such a great job drawing drawing out.

39:04.50
davidmcdermott
It Most certainly did.

39:11.59
davidmcdermott
Thank you mate.