#32 Diamonds Are Forever, with Karl Schwantes, Owner Of Xennox Diamonds and Founder of The Reputation Builder program

My guest in this episode is Karl Schwantes. Karl is the owner of Xennox Diamonds, a 47-year-old second-generation family business. He is also the Founder of the The Reputation Builder program, which focuses on showing business owners how to craft remarkable client experiences that generate great Google reviews. 

Karl is a Customer Experience Expert and an international award-winning author, a Telstra business award finalist and winner of the My Business Awards 2020 for the Best Customer Experience.

Highlights of our conversation include insights on the global diamond industry; the fact that whatever you think you’re worth, you’re right; how to steal business from your competitors using social proof; magical moments of truth in your business; hanging out with Richard Branson on Necker Island; and the importance of understanding the reputation phase that we’re now entering into. 

Enjoy the conversation 

To find out more about the Reputation Builder Program go to: https://reputable.global 

You can contact Karl at: karl@reputable.global 

You can connect with Karl on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karlschwantes 

To learn more about what it takes to be an evolved leader, and to check out our other podcast episodes, go to:  https://www.evolvedstrategy.com.au

Chapters

• 16:14 Ethics in the diamond industry
• 25:14 Whatever you think you’re worth, you’re right
• 26:54 Stealing business from your competitors using social proof
• 33:14 Magical moments of truth in your business
• 35:39 Hanging out with Richard Branson on Necker Island
• 42:24 We’re entering the reputation phase

Transcript

01:02.37
davidmcdermott
My guest today is Carl Schwanters Karl is a customer experience expert and an international award-winning author a telstra business award finalist and winner of the my business awards 2020 for the best customer experience. Karl. Has an uncanny eye for quality and uniqueness as the owner of Xanno Diamonds a 47 year old second generation family business his skill lies not just in making unique jewelry but also in crafting phenomenal experiences with clients. His clients are left feeling like they have just been part of something truly special which has seen xannox diamonds generate over one thousand and eighty seven five star google reviews super impressive 20 Carl launched the reputation builder program sharing all the xennox business secrets and showing business owners. How to craft remarkable client experiences that turn great testimonials into Google reviews that drive leads and sales in their business twenty four 7 without spending a dollar on ads sounds pretty cool. Carl welcome to the show.

02:10.58
Karl
Good night David great to be here.

02:14.28
davidmcdermott
So before we get into that and I'm very interested in that some of those secrets. Whatever little little tips. You might be able to share and I know plenty of listeners will be interested in in how they can build their Google reviews for the businesses they run without spending a dollar on ads. It's um. Something. That's very very attractive for people to learn more about and I think an unharvested area but can you tell us a bit about your leadership journey so far from wherever you want to begin.

02:45.66
Karl
Well, ah, for those of you who get to know me I'm a pretty straightforward straight shooting guy which is probably aligned with being a first child and I think for all the other first childs out there. You'll probably know what I mean you know we tend to be quite driven. We like to. Naturally gravitate towards positions of leadership straight out of school I went into uni and also signed up into the army. So I joined the queensland university regiment and spent end up spending 10 years in the military finishing as an artillery captain. So I think from a leadership point of view. The military has so many great lessons to teach you not just around leadership around you know people around you know, strategy and just seeing the world from a different place. So I think that in a lot of ways gave me some really good grounding. As to how to approach you know all things in life from brist business to to family and beyond.

03:44.54
davidmcdermott
So you you started and with with 10 years in the military. Um, and yes, it's It's well known you know people people go through that process and and get a really strong grounding in leadership and strategy so you were you in layers of leadership in. In the Army car.

04:04.27
Karl
Yeah, you normally just go through the process of learning you know from? Ah, you know doing military study to ethics to law to tactics and all of those sort of things you know went progress through the ranks of being a life tenant through to being a captain. Ah, managing men that were under me I Love the camaraderie of of the military. It's one of the things that I probably missed the most ah about not being in there. You know a funny side story on that. Ah, you know people often, ask me? you know, did you get a chance to go overseas and.

04:21.60
davidmcdermott
A.

04:35.10
Karl
I really came very close at 1 point to potentially going to Afghanistan atwa yeah iraq at the time it was but my wife and I who've been coming up to our twenty fifth Twenty first wedding anniversary this year. We actually had four kids under two so that was triplets plus one. So.

04:47.75
davidmcdermott
A.

04:53.43
Karl
The idea of leaving my wife at home with 4 kids under 2 on an eight month deployment probably wouldn't have been a great idea.

04:57.50
davidmcdermott
Yeah, totally understand So what happened then was at the end of the army.

05:08.12
Karl
Yeah, pretty much went inactive at that point and I guess you know, growing up in a family business I mean the business this year is 47 going soon to go on to 48? Um I think that you you get pulled in to a family business. You know in lots of different ways you talk about it at the dinner table. You know I used to go in on the weekends and ah help out you know, starting at the bottom and you know making the coffees and and doing all of that sort of stuff and you know progress your way through it's it's kind of like very much sometimes it's funny as you think about it you know in leadership we progress generally through different levels. No I think no one comes out of the womb. Being like this amazing leader. So I think you you just progress and you learn to do your time and I think that was the same as the army same as working in a family business and you don't get that free ticket just to go to the top because you haven't learned the life experiences that you need to have in order to be able to handle. Whatever's coming next. So. You know I was making my first rings when I was about fourteen years old and I think for me it. It was always a thing for me to be in a position of leadership meant that I needed to have a really good understanding of every aspect of the business. You know so when when I was speaking to the jewelers or when I was speaking to a client or when I was speaking to wherever it was I came from a position of having a certain level of expertise and understanding and I never just wanted to be the sort of person that was just in a position because of a birthright. Let's say so.

06:32.97
davidmcdermott
3

06:36.30
Karl
You know going through school I became a qualified gemologist diamond grader Valuer and and you know received all of the credentials that I'd ever need to be considered. You know at the top of that position and I think from leadership. It's all about I guess leading from the front. It's about showing that. You're prepared to do the work first.

06:57.11
davidmcdermott
Yeah, and ah, do you still have a significant involvement in Xenox diamonds in terms of leadership.

07:08.77
Karl
Well over the last you know so so people sometimes ask me where did where did the new business come from and it's like well you know everything at xenno was going really well I'd ah gotten to the point where the business could run fairly much without me I I installed a see um manage. Not a managing director general manager into the business somebody that actually I promoted from within who'd been with me at the time five or six years really understood also almost all the aspects of the business. Um, and then started putting in a leadership team so that I wasn't involved in the day-to-day running of the business today I worked 2 to three days a week and sometimes buy appointments I mean clients who specifically want to see me or have a design concert with me. They'll generally make ah a private appointment but in in terms of being there on a day-to-day basis or involved in the day-to-day operations of the business I'm not really involved in that way which allows me then to focus on.

08:00.91
davidmcdermott
And.

08:05.27
Karl
What I kind of see is potentially the next chapter of where I'm taking business and leadership.

08:10.59
davidmcdermott
Well we we'll definitely talk about that. But before we before we go into that topic. Um, what what have been your main learnings from a leadership perspective ah with your I think 27 years at at xeno diamonds.

08:28.32
Karl
I think that ah particularly if you're transitioning leadership. You need to create space. What I found in the early days was even having a general manager and me being in the office. You know every day. You know, sometimes as leaders we can cast a big shadow and it's very hard for other people to shine. So one of the things that I did was get an office that was offsite so you know again that created the space to allow that other person to be able to step up and shine in their own right without constantly having me you know in the general vicinity.

08:58.44
davidmcdermott
E.

09:01.43
Karl
I Think that's one lesson I Think yeah, the other lesson that that was a hard one to kind of grasp is is the lesson that the whole, not good. It wouldn't be as good as what you could do it and allowing other people to make mistakes because ultimately I think as leaders.

09:13.88
davidmcdermott
A.

09:19.10
Karl
We got to where we are because we made mistakes and that's okay, we made mistakes we learned from them. But it's another thing sometimes when you have to let other people make a mistake so that they can get the same life learning about how to do things differently so I would say they're the 2 main lessons that that I've probably learned over the last few years.

09:35.59
davidmcdermott
Well, that's a really interesting area and I mean how how did you manage that are we talking about other gemologists. You know you you as the expert can see I don't know certain ways to cut a diamond or fit it to a ring and. You can see that they're not quite doing it right? But you let them have a go and muck it up anyway and then have a review conversation with them afterwards or what what sort of stuff. Are we talking about here.

09:53.00
Karl
Um.

10:02.49
Karl
Yeah, for price it was more the design concept sign of things. So the diamonds we buy that already pre-cut Australia doesn't have an industry for that. Um, but it was more about the design process like how a ring would be designed now I've won two national design awards for designing jewelry. My my father's won 10

10:06.90
davidmcdermott
It.

10:17.00
davidmcdermott
Okay.

10:19.77
Karl
So He's a little bit ahead, but it was a different world. It was a different world back then. But yeah so I've got a unique particular way of designing jewelry that's different from most people so it was a matter of letting them do the designs and and it wasn't as good as what I would have liked to have been but the clients were still happy and and sometimes I think that's ah, that's a. Ah, lesson for us that um, we don't need to micromanage everything in that sense because sometimes the clients may not have appreciated the difference anyway and they would just be as happy with what they received. You know, always the quality was there was just the nuances with design I'm just quite particular about.

10:57.75
davidmcdermott
Yes I understand um I mean the world of diamonds specifically I I do also just want to go into that a bit because it's a world that many people apart from you know, buying an engagement ring and ah in a wedding ring that might be their early foray into the world of diamonds if. If indeed they buy a ring that has diamonds on it. Um, and it you know it is it is its own very unique and global industry and and one that um you know there's a whole underworld that comes with it as well. I've had and just some little dabbles in in the industry myself but by by no means an expert. The charity that I I founded an Australian affiliate of Luca Leadership Australia was founded by people in the uk who they they ran programs in Luca the town of Lucat Nero near pisa and and ah they had a beautiful villa that could house about 50 participants residentially catered with a you know and produced its own wine had its own olive groves and the money came from the de beer diamond mines and so the the de beer family. You know who. And were significant owners of of diamond mines and I when I worked at second road second road consulted to the argyle diamond mine in in Australia that's the famous producer of the rare pink diamonds but you're yeah, you're you're the expert. what what stories

12:23.43
davidmcdermott
Just out of interest could you could you share? you know, even just 1 or 2 of some of some of the more fascinating elements of the diamond world and.

12:32.23
Karl
Yeah that's a great question David um, so I was actually very fortunate and a number of years ago to get invited by debiers one of about 15 jewelers globally to go and visit visit their venetian diamond mine in South Africa which is right at the top there. On the border of Botswana in Zimbabwe and ah, that was an experience. You know it was like going through one of those hamster rat mazes you know like they had doors that kind of open and close and they would x-ray um, you know, breathaly everything and even once you got through all of these checks and and.

13:00.60
davidmcdermott
Totally.

13:09.51
Karl
You got to the other side that would give you all new clothes that you had to wear so you couldn't take anything of yours into the the mind site and there were many people there just watching everybody like a hawk you you know? Basically you were not allowed to tie your shoelaces and they told you that so you know if you if you're going down on your on your knees to tie something you know they're really right there with you. So that was a fascinating experience the Venetian Diamond mine like the opening to the top part of that mine was about 18 football fields which is quiet at like to to get a visualization and I think stage one went down three hundred meters stage 2 was going to go down another seven hundred meters but so that was quite fascinating and we also got to go and see the local schools that um debiers help support and fund you know so they do a lot of charity work in and around the areas I'm sure you're you're well aware and the communities that benefit not only from you know, labor and working there but but just the whole. Contribution to communities. There's conservation and and national wild park side of things so that was a very interesting experience to get to go to.

14:16.82
davidmcdermott
Well, that's really cool and a very ah, very unique experience that many people would never would never get to um to have themselves what about the the ethical some of the ethical questions of the diamond industry I mean many people will have seen. Um. Blood diamond I think with Leonardo Dicaprio and what I mean we've had all sorts of conversations on this show. You know artificial intelligence and the ethical implications. How about ethics as applied as applied to the diamond industry whether it's in your direct experience or just from knowledge of what's out there.

14:44.34
Karl
Um.

14:50.83
Karl
Yeah I mean yeah, it's an I mean everybody would be aware of ah like you said the movie Blad Diamond and you know the the Diamond community really came together with the Kimberley process to kind of really help um, weed out you know diamonds that were being used to fund Civil Wars and things like that.

14:51.18
davidmcdermott
Human rights et cetera.

15:10.31
Karl
Interestingly, ah, in recent times the the bigger 1 is actually the russian diamonds. So the diamond the alarosa mine the divak mine in in Russia is actually 1 of the big is a huge mine. And you know how do we stop the control of those diamonds entering the market and it's it's a very difficult thing sometimes it's kind of a case of like which chicken laid that egg. You know it's it's very hard to kind of ah track and monitor that all I would say is that in Australia we've got such a small market. Um. The amount of diamonds that come into our country legally and and that are all certified as being conflict free no matter where in the world they come from ah is more than enough to satisfy what comes in you know there, there's no real need for people to go outside the regular channels to do that. So that's what I would say but everything these days.

15:46.69
davidmcdermott
A.

16:02.80
Karl
Is ah is a train of trust so I buy from suppliers that I've been buying from for however, many years they have their own supplies and and trust is such an a strong point that nobody really wants to break it because once you've broken it. It's It's pretty much gone you you pretty much won't work. In that in that business again.

16:23.53
davidmcdermott
Well, and trust you know that's very much the foundation for leadership particularly with high performing teams know related to the the content of this podcast trust is number 1 it's the number 1 Um. Foundation for a team to be highper performing and really in any kind of relationship and if if trust breaks down and it's game over. It's the the dot the domino that falls and topples all the other dominoes. So 1 more diamond question just out of ah fascination.

16:52.12
Karl
Guy. What.

16:53.98
davidmcdermott
Before we we might move on to um, your other business. Ah so the the art of being able to spot a fake. Obviously you know 99.9999 nine percent of people on the planet would have absolutely no idea even if they were wearing that special eyeglass you know and how you would do that like what.

16:59.90
Karl
Um, no.

17:04.61
Karl
Um, um.

17:13.16
davidmcdermott
Um, how how much of an art is it for for a professional to be able to spot a a real diamond from a fake. You know say some of the best fakes in the world and you know are there fakes that can get through even the most astute eye or ah, what? what are your views on that.

17:30.29
Karl
Well when we talk about diamonds. There's really 2 different things. 1 is a simulant which is something that's similar to a diamond but not the same so things like cubic suconia so the the secret shop and all that sort of stuff that they do. That's something so they're like a dead easy to spot because they just.

17:42.20
davidmcdermott
Then.

17:49.31
Karl
They're not as hard as a diamond. So the edges become abraided and to us when we look at them. They just look completely different. You know they just don't sparkle the same way. They don't have the same crispness. Not the same internal refraction and dispersion. But the the bigger one today. And it's a contentious issue particularly in the international community is all around the created diamonds where a created diamond has the identical physical chemical molecular optical properties of a mine diamond. It was just made above the ground in a laboratory. Those are almost impossible to tell the difference without laboratory equipment or looking at the laser inscription that's inscribed on the stone. So that's it then the the big difference for most people is the price difference. Um, you know one carat ah at today's recording ah, 1 carat ah laboratory grain diamond might be around the $5000 mark ah in ah in a mind one. It could be some around 12 to 15000 so it's a very big difference and if you go to a 2 or three carat you're talking $100000 versus 10 it. It comes even bigger.

18:50.61
davidmcdermott
In a.

19:01.73
davidmcdermott
Why why? the exponential increase not um, not just proportional to volume is because they're rarer the bigger they are.

19:11.15
Karl
Because ah were in mine diamonds. Yes, yeah, so you know finding a 3 carat mine diamond is to give you an idea like those big tonka truck kind of dump trucks that take all the the or up.

19:13.46
davidmcdermott
E.

19:25.98
Karl
I think they have to move about twelve tons with of ore to find a single one Carat Diamond now the only reason that a one Carat diamond yeah the only reason that a 1 carat diamond doesn't cost 40 or $50000 is because in there are all the small little ones that essentially kind of subsidize the price. So.

19:28.36
davidmcdermott
1 cameras. Okay.

19:40.14
davidmcdermott
In.

19:44.49
Karl
Find 2 or three carat you have to understand that it becomes even laish to go through so much more or and and wait to find those those special stones. So that's why the bigger the stone becomes exponentially more expensive.

19:57.11
davidmcdermott
Yep, that makes sense so I truly could explore many other areas related to diamonds because it's It's just one of those fascinating industries. But um.

20:03.64
Karl
Yeah.

20:09.36
davidmcdermott
I do also want to leave time for your other business which came out of xenox diamonds and you know you've got as we said in the in the intro one thousand and eighty seven five star reviews and out of that you've built a program and an offering which um, you know you share with other businesses. How how to also. I guess harvest opportunities and build their Google review base and ideally not have to put money into paid advertising. So yeah, can you can you tell us what? what is this that you've built and and what's the vision for that and how's it going.

20:44.80
Karl
So yeah, as I said everything was going quite well with xennox until this little thing called covid came along so I know some of you probably still can remember that um and the government came out and banned weddings. Which is pretty devastating when that's pretty much what you do and we pretty much lost 97% of our revenue overnight for about eight weeks and so I was in a position where I was like well we need to find some more business where where our clients coming from so that you know if I could find that out. Then that would make it easy for me to go out and find new clients and what I found really surprised me I found that in the previous year so 2019 we generated 173 sales so that's sales and not leads that had come purely from our Google reviews. And that was all recorded in our point of sale I thought isn't that interesting I thought well I could teach other people. How to do that and so then I just started down this road of um, teaching them how to do it. But what I realized and it's one of those great things you know from a leadership point of view. They say to truly know something is to teach it and what I found was in teaching it I started to get all of these extra distinctions about how to do it differently? Oh well, it's not as easy as doing that I could give somebody my script on how to do it. But if they didn't have these 3 other things upstream fixed it made it very difficult. So.

22:08.30
Karl
Really over the last year to 2 years It's been all about unpacking the ip like why is it that I do what I do and how I do it that gets the repeatable. Um, you know result that that we're aiming for and so you know in the beginning I called the business five star reviews because that's kind of what it did. But what it's become over the last year or so has evolved into something so much bigger which the new name is called reputable because ultimately what we do is help make you reputable online. There are many businesses out there that could charge 2 to 3 times what you're charging. They're not any better at what they do. They just have a reputation in the marketplace that dictates that that's what they can charge so you know there was great. My uncle always used to say to me you know whatever you think you're worth You're probably right? You know if you think you're worth $100 an hour. You're right? if you think you're worth $500 an hour. You're right.

22:54.56
davidmcdermott
Say.

23:03.48
Karl
So but it was all about how could we send that signal to the marketplace so that you show up as the employer of choice if people are looking for a job you show up as the business of choice. You are the market leader as seen by Google and as far as I guess. Anybody who uses the internet is concerned that Google is still the number 1 search platform by a long way. Not just in terms of looking for inquiries but also in terms of looking at reviews because there's other review platforms out there like Yelp Trust Pilot etc but Google is.

23:36.28
davidmcdermott
A.

23:40.82
Karl
Well the number 1 review platform out there on the internet.

23:45.56
davidmcdermott
Absolutely and I love what you said to me in a previous conversation I think you said when people you know, initially speak to you Ah ah, being interested in and the now what's reput reputable was my five star reviews your your first question to them sometimes is. Do you use the internet. Um, and yeah I've shared that story with others with others and it's it is you know? Yeah, it's ah it's a simple statement but it it is absolutely true. Is um, everyone I mean i. I can confidently say almost everyone you know who has access to technology and in this global world today when they want to know something or they want to um, get a service of some kind or product. They will absolutely be typing that into Google as their. As their first way of of starting to explore that. So it's ah it's a no-brainer.

24:38.33
Karl
Well the the gre. Yeah, the research shows that actually only 2% of people online. Don't read reviews so that means that 98% ninety eight percent do so

24:45.28
davidmcdermott
A.A.

24:53.84
Karl
This this? Oh and you can just Google it. There's overwhelming number of stats that talk about the power of social proof. It was even ah, a book that I'm reading at the moment by Robert Chiardinni around influence I don't know whether it's on your library behind you. But it's a great book that talks about.

24:56.42
davidmcdermott
Skip into this.

25:07.21
davidmcdermott
No.

25:12.58
Karl
The power of influence and social proof and there was another research study done by Google called the messy middle really really powerful and they and they found in this study that um that you can steal traffic away from a competitor.

25:30.28
Karl
If you use these 6 modifiers and they went in even so far as to use legitimate businesses. But then they wanted to test the power of social proof by going even further and they made up businesses made up logos made up everything and they were still in some cases able to steal 70% The clients by using these modifiers and and one of those modifiers was social proof. You know, displaying reviews next to a product or service had a massive impact on whether people decided to engage or or use that business.

26:06.12
davidmcdermott
That is fascinating and um I'm sure if if people are interested. They can read that book and learn about the other modifiers out of interest Now What? What are the the other main modifiers in addition to social proof.

26:23.66
Karl
They think things like um category heuristics. So like mental shortcuts that you can create they had Authority like if you've won awards you know you're displaying the awards that you've won. Um, there was the power of now.

26:35.21
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah.

26:38.40
Karl
You know the ability for people to get whatever it is that they're shopping for now there was the power of free So you know if you have a free version of something or other that can help people do it. So yeah, some simple things that you could do in your business to really help.

26:39.24
davidmcdermott
A.

26:55.85
davidmcdermott
Well really cool and what I mean I'll ask at the end for people who are interested how they can get in touch if they if they'd like to you know, learn more about the the program that you run, but just.

26:56.10
Karl
Ah, basically steal traffic away from your client from your competitors.

27:14.42
davidmcdermott
As a little bit of detail. What for a business owner particularly who um, who is aware they haven't put a lot of attention on their Google reviews and and would like to actually cultivate that space. What? what do you provide.

27:30.83
Karl
Um, so basically I just teach them my framework so I created the reputation builder framework which essentially has 9 business accelerators that walk you through everything you need to do to have an amazing reputable business online. And when I think about like amazing businesses I think about the Ferraris the ritz carltons you know I mean imagine if you could own any of these businesses and what do they all have in common. Well principally they have 3 things in common which is they've got lead flow like that they've got more people wanting to do business with them than than sometimes than they can handle.

27:50.50
davidmcdermott
The.

28:07.38
Karl
They do offer remarkable client experiences and they have an undeniable credibility in the marketplace. So the 9 business accelerators help you ah really transform your business so that you can have them and they range from things like mindset. Which should come as a no surprise you got to have the right mindset for believing that it's achievable that it's worth it and that you can do it ah ownership is all about making sure that you've got somebody in the business that is really a defender for the client journey experience and responsible for reporting how the Google review progress is going. Metrics is all about being able to make sure that you can quantify like so I could go in at any point and print off a report off my point of sale that says we've generated this much revenue from our Google reviews now you said in the intro about not spending money on ads I think the zuckerbergs. And even the Googles have enough money already. They don't need any more of mine. So if I can show people how to generate organic leads with organic reach. You know that's going to be a lot more effective. We put so much time and effort blood sweat and tears into building our businesses. We just need to get.

29:05.79
davidmcdermott
Um, a.

29:20.87
Karl
Better at telling that story and sometimes it's not about us getting better and this is the thing I love about this review. Space is it's about amplifying and elevating your brand reputation as told through your customers stories. Which is so much more powerful like if I tell you my business is great. That's 1 thing but if I've got 100 clients telling you that my business is great. That's so much more powerful. So so being able to quantify that and do that then the next phase is all about Google is a game there are rules.

29:46.76
davidmcdermott
Um, absolutely.

29:58.50
Karl
And there is a scoreboard and it's very clear if you play by Google's rules you'll do well on the scoreboard. So the first stage is all about differentiation and differentiation is not about being 5% better than the competition. Nobody wins in that space.

30:01.10
davidmcdermott
E.

30:13.34
Karl
Ah, you need to become so radically different that you become the new benchmark by which all other business owners are judged against so at Xennox One of the things I did was when I built my new showroom I built in a whiskey bar now primarily because I like whiskey but what it did was create a really.

30:26.51
davidmcdermott
Okay.

30:32.18
Karl
Ah, an experience element. So when I'm teaching people in this space. We talk about experience silos so if you came into the showroom. You know the first thing I'll do is you know we greet you and and do all of that something. But then I'll take off like one of the lids off the whiskey bottle and I'll I'll get you to smell it and then we'll do another one. And and you know you've got this real sensory experience even before we've gone anywhere near looking at a diamond ring. So that's the differentiation phase the next one is what I call the magical moments of truth and the magical moments of truth are the profound client impacts that you have. With your clients that make the idea of going somewhere else unthinkable. That's a really hard 1 to teach people because it has to come from a heart space. You have to you have to be so connected with like going above and beyond for a client and it's like. I look at my clients in that way like they're a long lost relative like a cousin a sister brother someone that you haven't seen for 10 years and what would you do for them. Anything. Um, recently we had our dog got very sick and we had to put them down and we said to the the company that we bought the. Ah, pet food from we said look can we can we return it is it possible. We understand if it's not what they wrote back was an example of a magical moment of truth what they wrote back was um, don't worry about returning the food. We've credited ah the last order.

32:00.93
Karl
Where you the 3 unopened bags and we've also credited the previous order for the open bags that you still didn't finish or use all we ask is that you donate the food to a local shelter animal shelter so that someone else can get the don't worry about sending it back.

32:19.86
davidmcdermott
That.

32:20.76
Karl
Now when you hear something like that in the story you go? Well like I mean I've told this story now dozens of times. Ah, and next time I need pet food that that's we wouldn't go anywhere else So that's an example of a magical moment of truth but you have to empower your team.

32:24.64
davidmcdermott
And.

32:39.68
Karl
So that they feel safe in order to be able to do that and sometimes in businesses that I see they will um, discipline Reprimand somebody for doing something like that going low. You're giving away money and and all of this and stuff but it it has to come from a different place to do that. So that's.

32:39.95
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

32:51.40
davidmcdermott
And.

32:58.53
Karl
That's the magical moments of truth the next phase is googleization googleization is all about doing the stuff that Google wants. You know how do we get more Google reviews that have our Keywords listed in them. How do we Ah, optimize our Google business profile like. Google created this amazing tool. It's worth like 36% of your Seo. Your reviews are worth 16 like these 2 things are worth more than 50% of your website traffic that you can earn or steal away from your competitors. But Google expects you to Google how to use it? yeah.

33:34.76
davidmcdermott
Yeah, yeah, ah, such a good point.

33:36.25
Karl
The ireing of it but you know so it's so so my my mission in this space is to really show people how to get the best out of their profile like tell their story like showcase their products like there's no point being the best kept secret on the internet. That's the old joke. You know, like where do you hire a dead body. The answer is on page 2 Google because nobody's looking there. So. It's all about understanding how to get the best out of your Google profile and the reviews and optimizing it for that the next phase that we move into is all about the team.

33:59.13
davidmcdermott
Thinking.

34:13.96
Karl
And I've been very fortunate enough to spend a couple of weeks with Richard Branson at his home on Necker Island and also Africa and I can tell you apart from the fact that he's like the most amazing ah english gentleman that you could imagine like everything you would imagine that he would be he is but um, he loves. Team team to him is like 1 of the greatest assets a business can have so in the team phase we're talking about the team identity. What is it that the team has to leave about serving a client to their highest value without judgment. Without judgment's the hard pipe because it's so easy sometimes to go oh that client was a wallie or you know it. He's being difficult or she's being difficult. You know, but the problem is that creates a lens or a filter to how you treat them or how you treat the next person after that so being of service. My wife one of my favorite programs. My wife and I used to love watching was.

35:08.65
davidmcdermott
A.

35:10.30
Karl
Downton Abbey and I have such immense respect for the butlers I don't see it as a position of ah servitude or like like a subordinate position I think it's one of the most beautiful things that you can do is to be of service to your clients and you know when you look at those butlers they knew like to be like. 7 different spoons this one was for eggs this one was for a tea this one was you know the knowledge and all of that stuff that they had was such an admirable thing. So it's all about getting the business and the team to to see that as a service and 1 of the things that that often happens when I'm working with a business is. When we start getting people looking at Google reviews and it's very much like a dashboard metric. It's like ah it's like the fuel gauge. It's a lagging indicator. It tells us whether something's going right? or not going right? So one of the things that that often happens is that when I start getting everybody in the business focus on this dashboard indicator. Is that the service standard within the business starts to race because I look at Tom over there and Tom's getting a Google review. Well I want a Google review as well. I mean it's like a digital high five on your back someone telling you how amazing you are and what a great business. You've got I mean who doesn't want that It's awesome. So but it's about getting this in the business where everybody goes I want I want to I want the dopamine hit on that I want to get in on that. So so that's one of the byproducts that happens from focusing on this strategy the next one is all about um discipline. It's all about the rhythm and the routines.

36:42.10
Karl
I Wish as a business owner that we could tell the team something once and they would just get it. The reality is it does not happen. You need as a business owner to have daily indoctrination with the team. You know it's that constant reiteration of it. So.

36:56.42
davidmcdermott
Yeah, yeah.

36:59.73
Karl
You know we talk about core value. All of this sort of stuff I can guarantee you almost every business you walk into if you ask any of the team. What's the what's the core values of the business. Maybe they might be able to name 1 or 2 but almost nobody very rarely will be able to answer all 3 5 7 or however, many of the business has. And the reality is is they haven't had that daily indoctrination. So we talk about the daily huddles. The weekly retrospective the monthly the quarterly the annual target setting. How do we do that and break it down. It's it's that whole sort of thing like we we tend to you know, underestimate what we can achieve in a year but overestimate what we can do in a week but when I break it down for people and go okay, let's say you want to put on 100 reviews or 200 reviews this year we'll divide that by 52 then divide that by the number of team and sometimes it's like 1 review a ten or a week it's like nothing It's so achievable. It's so achievable. But it's it's the not not It's not.

37:46.26
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah.

37:56.79
Karl
It's the it's the inability because you've never walked the path to know how to connect all the dots and the last element in the in the in this phase is all about the multiplier and multiplies is about understanding that you're building a business asset.

37:58.82
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

38:14.34
Karl
That can add a multiple to your business valuation had a client of mine who's a podiatrist helped him become the number 1 highest rated podiatrist in Australia. He's projecting that over the next twelve months he's going to generate over 600 k from his Google reviews now when he's now considering selling his business. So the value as it came in said that there should be a 1 to 2 x multiple based on this business asset that's attached to the business. So tremendous value in in this so this so this is the framework that we walk everybody through it's it's not and it was it. It was a process. It's up discovery because I just thought well it's easy for me.

38:36.77
davidmcdermott
M.

38:43.90
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

38:53.10
Karl
Must be easy for everybody else, but it's it but it doesn't it doesn't happen that way Sometimes we take for granted the things that we're good at as being easy for everybody else to do.

39:02.12
davidmcdermott
So perhaps ah um, a challenging question for for a range of reasons and thank you for generously sharing that was absolutely thoroughly thoroughly relevant and and useful I think for for many many listeners. And um, and you really generously shared. You know, a very very clear set of areas that business owners need to be thinking about to um to build a strong Google review base and and the reasoning behind it. Ah it was that was absolutely fascinating. Thank you very much for taking the time to do that as as you were nearing the end. I started to think about digital marketing and you know I've worked with a number of digital marketing clients in terms of coaching and consulting to them. Um I've dabbled in that world myself and you know I won't talk at this point about the various experiences I've had but I know my own opinions on the subject and. Um, for ah for my business in terms of leadership development and consulting as a professional services business but what are your views as a professional who runs a business a bet that helps other businesses build their Google reviews with a focus on being able to organically generate. Leads without having to put money into digital marketing. However, what are your views on digital marketing as an industry. Not not just for any business but are there businesses that benefit products and services and scale of business that in your view does benefit from investing in some digital marketing or are you.

40:19.80
Karl
Um.

40:33.31
davidmcdermott
Of a different view. What what are your views on that topic Karl.

40:39.39
Karl
So great question. Um, so when I think about the old days right? The old days were the yellow pages now David you look like you're about my age so you probably remember the old ads of the not happy Jan you know as the lady was running down the street because she had forgotten to put the ad in the yellow pages.

40:52.85
davidmcdermott
Um, ah yes.

40:57.36
Karl
And I used to hate the yellow pages. You know every year they'd come to me and say your ad's gone up a thousand bucks and if you don't take the spot. We're gonna give it to your competitor and you're gonna lose out. Never get it back I hate that you know, um, and then we moved into what I saw as the digital age which was all about clickthroughs impressions and everyone loved it.

41:03.85
davidmcdermott
M.

41:17.00
Karl
Because you know it it created some sort of more easier measurable way of tracking everything the problem with that is that the the market has got into that space and they really abused it so much advertising there today is Clickbait. You know, spammy kind of stuff. Um, I think that the research shows that it's something like about 84% of millennials particularly don't trust conventional digital marketing today again. Why all about me telling you I'm great. It's it's that why? well of course you're going to say you're great. You know, but I would rather trust.

41:38.88
davidmcdermott
A.

41:53.55
Karl
Reputation side of things which is where we've moved into now which I see is the reputation marketing age where brands like Richard Branson has now Cruise Ships hotels airline he could start a lolly company or whatever and I'm sure people would transfer that reputational trust over to him. So. I see that today when you look at again the old way of marketing versus the new way the old way be it digital or print you know is high effort. Um, low trust typically um, can be expensive and is ultimately. Ah. Business generated like if you don't do it the minute you stop spending money on an ad it stops the results stop. But if you caught off that with a good way of marketing which is you know around that leveraging your own brand reputation. No one's brand is stronger you know or more valuable to you than your own.

42:33.70
davidmcdermott
And then a.

42:49.12
Karl
So If you compare that with a new way reputation marketing is user generated which I love you know see clients are generating all this seo content for you. It's free costs you nothing like I mean what's better than free I haven't worked that part out but it's low effort. Um. And can generate the the results quite fast so you know when I ask you like what do you think between the old way of marketing or the new way I think I'd rather choose the new way.

43:13.97
davidmcdermott
Yeah, really interesting to hear your your perspective on that and I know it's a question and and a conflict that business owners feel. Yeah should I be putting some money into digital marketing How much for X period and and depending on scale of business. It's something.

43:27.57
Karl
I will for.

43:32.32
davidmcdermott
Business owners often struggle with.

43:34.66
Karl
And what what I would say around that is ah I'm not anti ah like Facebook ads or Google ads. In fact I think they they do form a really important part. What I would say is you should get your house and order from ah from a digital reputation point of view first because if you think about it right? like.

43:47.19
davidmcdermott
E.

43:52.22
Karl
If you think about it. Google's got 2 profiles here. You know the one on the left has a profile that was just claimed and has never had anything done with it. The profile on the right has been optimized is updated regularly is doing everything to play by Google's rules rules.

44:06.41
davidmcdermott
M.

44:09.86
Karl
Now imagine I'm going to spend $100 on Google Ads who do you think Google's going to give the preferential treatment to the and unknown um, optimized profile or the optimize one. Definitely the optimized one I better click through is better impressions. So what I would say to you is should absolutely at some point. Do.

44:16.34
davidmcdermott
Um, yup.

44:28.93
Karl
And money on digital marketing. But only after you've optimized your profile you've gotten the systems and the process in place to generate consistent regular reviews Google loves you know consistency ah high quality. You know regular content coming through. They don't want to see you get 20 reviews today.

44:38.50
davidmcdermott
Um, money.

44:44.32
davidmcdermott
Yeah, ah and.

44:47.37
Karl
And nothing for six months they want to see one to 3 reviews so get get all of that stuff and then say okay, great. Let's put some money on some digital ads now.

44:54.80
davidmcdermott
Yeah, really great advice and um, that's you know that's the kind of perspective that balances the competing apparently competing ah questions of you know do I go with the digital marketing route or do I just purely focus on organic. You know there is no. Potentially a middle ground to be struck depending on the kind of business. You run. And yeah, that's that's a really great tip to um, get your house in order first from a Google profile perspective and get that optimized and build a base of consistent reviews that are coming in and get those systems down and then look at right? do I need to or want to invest in digital marketing that. Yeah, that's a great principle to approach it I really like the way you explain that so we've we've run out of time Carl and um, there are as always so many questions like yeah, well, it's really fascinating but we we do have to bring it to a close there. So.

45:39.75
Karl
But I could talk hours on this.

45:50.70
davidmcdermott
For those? um who do want to follow you, you know and or learn more about the program. What's the best way for them to do that.

45:58.33
Karl
Well, the new website. That's that's just being launched live is reputable dot global so reputable dot global is where the online academy is gonna live and the reason I created the online academy is just so that people could consume the content that they need on demand like you can watch the 3 to 5 minute videos couple here couple there. You're to have your whole team. Ah do it for me. It's now about how do I create a bigger impact. How do I help more business owners because I've been in business nearly thirty years I know what it's like to be in the trenches I know what it's like to you know sometimes wake up in the morning and and say is today the day. You know, a client's gonna come in and and you know buy something. So I think that there is a better way of marketing your business and I'm on a mission to help other business owners just like me you know, use their great reputation and start generating new business because I ah genuinely believe that business owners. Love what they do. They just want to do it with more clients.

46:53.93
davidmcdermott
Um, a.

46:54.40
Karl
So that's what I'm on a mission to do butboard dot global or or emailing me at carl@youknow,reputable.globalwillgetthroughtomeaswell. but I'm sure you'll have all the links and everything in the bio connect with me on on now. Yeah.

47:01.86
davidmcdermott
Yeah, that will share all those in the show notes. Yeah, cool. Well Carl thank you so much for your time today and your generous wisdom.

47:13.42
Karl
Thanks David it's been an absolute blast I've enjoyed it.