#37 Stopping The Fastest Growing Waste Stream, with John Shegerian, co-founder, Chairman and CEO of ERI

My guest in this episode is John Shegerian. John is the serial social entrepreneur responsible for co-founding Homeboy Industries, FinancialAid.com, Engage and many other impactful organizations. He currently serves as co-founder, Chairman and CEO of ERI, the largest recycler of electronic waste in the US.

Highlights of our conversation include hearing John describe starting his work life washing floors at the age of 10 at the dry cleaners, appreciating that all his bosses were mentors, discussing the impact of the Greed Is Good generation, and a strong encouragement to study the great leaders.

John also describes a very impressive Board of Directors at ERI, including JB Straubel who is the founder of Redwood Materials and a co-founder of Tesla, the Koo family who are the founders and owners of LG Electronics, and the aluminium production giant Alcoa. 

Enjoy the conversation 

To find out more about ERI go to: https://eridirect.com 

You can follow John on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnshegerian 

You can follow ERI at:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/electronic-recyclers/

To learn more about what it takes to be an evolved leader, and to check out our other podcast episodes, go to:  https://www.evolvedstrategy.com.au

Chapters

• 5:44 All my bosses were mentors
• 17:54 A very impressive Board of Directors at ERI
• 28:14 Be your best, against the odds
• 31:54 Impact of the Greed Is Good generation
• 36:04 Study the great leaders

Transcript

00:46.57
davidmcdermott
Could be.

01:01.81
davidmcdermott
Hi guys welcome to the show. My guest today is John Shagarian so John is the serial social entrepreneur responsible for co-founding Homeboy Industries Financialai Dot Com engage and many other impactful organizations. He currently serves as co-founder chairman and Ceo of Eri and yeah ei is the largest recycler of ah electronic waste in the us which is pretty cool and we'll learn more about that shortly John welcome to the show.

01:35.76
John
That's what it's an honor to be here David thank you for having me today.

01:40.39
davidmcdermott
It's really cool to have you on and let's hear about who are you in terms of your background tell us about your leadership journey so far as much or little as you'd like to share.

01:51.73
John
Yeah I got um I was very I was born in New York City and my mom was a social worker and my dad was an entrepreneur so when you when I look back and this is only in retrospect how I even got on this journey. Is you? You know when you have. 2 strong parents that really are committed to what they're doing. Ah you take social worker with entrepreneur and you get social entrepreneur and that's that's really, ah, but what? what was really my my humble beginnings in Queens New York

02:26.80
davidmcdermott
Wow, That's very cool and um, it's interesting when guests talk about their their upbringing and the influence of parents and we had this recently on an interview I'm I'm a great fan in terms of leadership of actually going there and and. Considering as a leader what impact did my parents have on me because they're the most formative people in our lives for most of us. Um, what? What were the biggest things that shaped you as a leader that you would say are attributable to your parents and you know both. The good and the bad if you know depending on what your experience was.

03:01.21
John
Yeah, both were um, both were very curious. My mom was very curious. She's ah, um, probably can be termed a biblial file someone who's constantly reading and and always wants to know and learn so that was great. My father was a fixer. He would see voids in ah white space in the marketplace and want to ah um, create Solutions. So It was really a nice mix of curiosity and learning both formal and informal educational learning with. Um, ah the the ability to look for voids in the marketplace and things that need to be fixed on holes that need to be filled and creating commercializable and and scalable ah business opportunities to fill those voids and that was my father's strength.

03:52.17
davidmcdermott
M.

03:55.35
John
And my mother's strength on the education side and that's really it was really a very um, ah positive mix. They got divorced when I was very young but they both were very big in my life and as was um, my grandparents all immigrant hard workers and you know that Dna of.

04:13.94
John
Of coming to a ah country where you you don't know anybody and you have to be resilient and you have to be tough and you have to be flexible and adaptable though that that never leaves you and even though I was born in this country in the United States that Dna is is embedded in you. And and not only by ah by blood and genetics but also by vision by watching the the immigrants that came over and watching how hard they worked and how much they sacrificed for our better opportunities. It really set my brother and myself off on a very good path. To um, want to succeed and want to and want to honor all the sacrifices that they made.

04:58.62
davidmcdermott
So that's really interesting to hear the impact and it sounds like your dad was you know very committed and and probably ambitious and and entrepreneurial in his own way. Um, which ah sounds like you've certainly picked that.

05:08.24
John
Um, yeah, yeah.

05:13.23
davidmcdermott
That characteristic up.

05:16.22
John
Yeah, and and it's interesting. My parents were so different and it was probably but for the best they got divorced because even to this day my mom ah she loves talking about any book or anything in the news or the media. She's 84 she just retired.

05:30.80
davidmcdermott
M.

05:33.90
John
And my dad has long since passed but my mom still is unbelievably curious reads all the time challenges me all the time on current events and what's going on and and and recent ah ah media events and important issues political and otherwise social and ah. And but she doesn't really understand the world of entrepreneurship which is fascinating. They were that much different. But when you put together that it could be a very happy balance and for me, it's a happy balance of curiosity and business that I really get to enjoy capitalism.

05:52.39
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

06:03.80
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah, that's 2 really um, mutually beneficial characteristics as you say to to come together in one. So John what about.

06:06.42
John
And ah and and and and always learning always learning always wanting to learn.

06:17.53
John
Um, yeah.

06:20.79
davidmcdermott
Um, your organizational leadership journey before Eri What? what can you share with us about that.

06:27.79
John
Yeah, it was it was it started off at a very young age my my in the beginnings. My parents were very um, ah you know they they like my most young parents we didn't have much and I started working at a very young age at 10 years old sweeping floors. And got to be very close with my boss in a dry cleaner in the United States and learned a lot from him about hard work and and and making money and also investing money and I kept finding mentors along the way you know, no one is ah a success on their own. Um, no one is a quote unquote a self-made man or woman and so when you're lucky enough to find mentors along the way ah to help guide you push you pull you um pick you up when you fall down and you crash and burn and that's sort of been my journey. Um. I can I could literally track it. It's it's very very clear now now that I'm sixty one years old um from my dry cleaning days in Saul Jacobson who was my first boss and um, an amazing mentor and very caring human being ah to my days of horse racing I was all. Harness Race trainer and driver one of the youngest ones in in North America harness racing is very very popular I know in Australia I bought a lot of horses from down under and also was very popular back then in the United States and Mike Gagliardi and other mentors I had um you know, racing horses and also.

07:55.23
John
Tending for horses you know horses were a great experience in my teen years David in that you know you can't be ah, a good leader and and in in absentia you have to show up and and horses are a great example. Whereas you don't if you have a business and you don't show up. That's 1 thing you're missing from the business that your team is missing their leadership and missing their direction but when you don't show up to your barn when you're 11 or 12 or thirteen years old or 14 years old or seventeen years old you have a lot of horses that start going hungry that start. Ah, ah you know. Don't get the care that they need and these horses are not cheap. Horses. They're race horses and so it was I learned very early that you have to show up every day and you have to be on time if not early and you have to do what you promise you're going to do otherwise everything around you will suffer and um. And so that was a great lesson and then that went on until I ah got over to I worked for my father for a while and he had a very large printing company. Plus he also was the first person to bring windmills to North America he created a company called Windmaster back in the late 70 s and. That was a great experience. I learned about the environment and that there wasn't just one way to do things. He was already challenging the ah ah the fossil fuel. Um, ah, ah, based energy industry by bringing wind to America and creating wind farms and so that set a great impression on me.

09:25.62
John
And onward I went into real estate and the law and all my all my bosses were mentors. So really what I learned David is I was never really the smartest person in the room I was smart enough but I was always curious and I was always I'll outwork anybody. And I was always the first to show up in the last to leave and that's what set my career on a great path in terms of leadership and so I've been very lucky along the way to have so many great leaders that cared for me that pushed me that pulled me and that also really picked me up. Ah, whenever I fell down.

10:03.46
davidmcdermott
And really cool to hear you calling out the the value of mentorship and ah and how generously and and passionately you describe all your bosses from the very first. You know, sweeping floors at the dry cleaners you you've referred to your boss there as a mentor and that's that's amazing as well. Um, so I I want to make sure we leave um a good amount of time to understand what have you. Built now. What do you give your energy to now John you know at this point in your journey which as I understand it's yeah eri. Um, and and tell us about that and and tell us you know, just linking with what the story you just told was there a gap there you know where you left off before? Yeah eri.

10:37.10
John
Um, yeah.

10:48.50
davidmcdermott
Was founded or did did that link into yeah Eri beginning. What's the story there.

10:51.90
John
Yeah, great. Great question I moved I moved from my wife and I lived in Beverly Hills with our children in 96 we moved to Fresno California where her parents were from and I opened up a brewery. And when I opened up that brewery I realized that that wasn't my last stop but it was a great way to meet people. It was a restaurant in brewery and the young guys that made my t-shirts at the at this restaurant and brewery ah became very good friends of mine. They were 2 brothers they Matt and Michael O'brien and they knew a lot about computers because their dad was one of the first importers of computers in America and I knew nothing about computers and they kept telling me we had to get involved with this new world. This internet world back in ninety six ninety seven ninety eight and I was like I don't even understand how to turn on a computer I don't understand what you mean, but they they coach me and they taught me and we. We talked a lot about it and finally in 9098 we started in the back of my brewery. A little company called financial aid.com and everybody laughed at us and every Vc threw us out of their office and um and we and we mortgaged our homes and and we went into debt. And we we literally started this little dot com that everyone predicted would fail and we got very very lucky David the 3 of us stuck together and stuck to our mission and stuck to our vision and it grew and it grew and it grew and it grew and we moved it down to San Diego and ah before you knew it we we really.

12:15.62
John
We grew 1 of the largest dot coms starting in 98 which is the year Google was founded and um and we we democratize a student lending business and what we learned is what we don't know we can learn and what we learned is just because someone tells you no doesn't mean you shouldn't do it and what we learned was. Um, even when it's a brand new industry and a brand new world which the whole internet world was them. Ah, again, they still opportunities for everyone. Even if you don't have a classic and a formal or an informal education in that area and that was a tremendous lesson. It was like getting in. Like getting an Mba both in business and also in ah in entrepreneurship and startups and then I took that and during that period running that in San Diego to we sold it in 2004 I met a young man named Aaron Blum he was introduced to me by by a guy that worked for me named Kevin Dylan at Financialai.com and Aaron was starting a little company recycling electronics and by the time we sold financial aid dot com Aaron then came to us we were very close friends at the time and he said listen can you do the same thing for my little recycling company that you did for the.com and Kevin and i. Talked among ourselves and we studied the electronic waste business david and but we realized back in 2003 and 4 was that electronic waste back then was the fastest growing solid waste stream in the world and it looked like the trend was going to continue to make it keep growing so we made a deal with Aaron.

13:49.95
John
Where we closed down his San Diego location got rid of the name and reopened in Fresno California after we sold financial aid dot com with a brand new name. Yeah ei electronic recyclers international and um and we just put our heads down and we started working again and again David we didn't know this business. We knew a.

13:58.30
davidmcdermott
M.

14:06.70
davidmcdermott
3

14:09.66
John
We wanted to do something that that was good for the environment that that was that was a holdover theme in my life from from my father's windmill company knowing that it's a good feeling every day not just to make a paycheck but to make the world a better place that's number 1 number 2 we realized. Also. There was no formal industry. It was just mom and pop scrapyards around around North America that if we formalize it just like we did with Financialai.com we we democratize the student lending world by putting that online. We were going to democratize ewaste recycling by professionalizing on. Professionalizing it and then taking it on the road and that's what we did. We started in Fresno put our heads down work really hard and then before you knew it 20 years goes by and it's where we're about 21 22 years into this now David and and we're the largest company in North America we have 9 locations. But a thousand employees and we recycle about £20000000 of electronic waste every month and that feels really good and that feels really good.

15:12.99
davidmcdermott
And for listeners in Australia £20000000 let's see if I can quickly do a conversion here. It's probably something like ten thousand tons a year something like that does that sound right a month yeah right

15:27.70
John
A month that's a month that's a month you're exactly right? that is you're you're right? that is that is the conversion but that is a month and and it's a lot. It's a it's a lot of electronics and you know we're just hitting the.

15:32.44
davidmcdermott
Wow.

15:39.60
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

15:42.34
John
It's a drop in the bucket David I wish I could tell you hey we started this business. We built it to 9 locations and we've eradicated the problem but unfortunately David the problem has outgrown us it grew faster than we could ever grow the company.

15:48.89
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

15:57.21
John
And e-waste today is not only the fastest growing solidation the root in the in the world. Still, it's now the fastest growing solid wastestream by an order of magnitude of 2 to 4 times the second fastest growing wastestream which is post post-consumer single use plastic. So it's um.

16:12.16
davidmcdermott
Right.

16:16.21
John
As you and I know electronics have become ubiquitous to our lives. You know we have all this one. You know you and I are talking today over this great over our computers and Zoom and all this wonderful technology and we're all we all have ah wearables on us and we drive our ev cars which are basically computers on wheels and. The internet of things have taken over and it's made for a world full of electronics but it's also made for ah for a world form of opportunity for for companies like us.

16:46.21
davidmcdermott
So true and just for listeners who um, aren't familiar with the space when you you know when we look at ewaste being the number 1 waste product as you say by 2 or 4 times. What? What is the big concern with waste and if you know we're not recycling it as it builds up like what? what are the scenarios of ah and and the concerns that come with the future with that with that amount of waste piling up.

17:14.80
John
Um, yeah, yeah, the the real problem is this a historically David this stuff has been put in landfills around the world or been thrown in lakes rivers or been burned just to get to the precious metals which burning it creates. Toxicity in the air because the plastic is absolutely toxic if you burn the plastic off of the like the electronics when you put it in a landfill unfortunately, most landfills have liners and once it gets rained or any type of moisture gets into it. The linrs get holes the liners leak. So then. Then the mercury the lead the cadmium the arsenic the beryllium that are all contained in some amount or another and in all electronics will leach into our ground supply which which will leach into our water supply which will of course then leach into our vegetation animals and eventually make it back to us and that's unnecessary.

18:00.59
davidmcdermott
Ah.

18:07.49
John
Here's the beautiful story part of the story David when you keep electronics above ground in any country wherever they're used and there's a responsible recycler there and I'm here to tell you there's responsible recyclers like Eri in Australia in Europe in Asia in South America in in the Uae and in North America here in the United States when you keep these materials above ground and responsibly recycle them all all the commodities that are contained therein can go back into the circular economy. So let's look at electronics what comes out of electronics. What's the biggest commodities. Shredded steel, shredded plastic shredded aluminum copper and then you have the trace metals gold lead and silver. All those materials can go back to smelters and go back into the circular economy and pretty much besides 1 or two percent of the gross weight. All of it goes and gets reused again.

18:55.77
davidmcdermott
The.

19:03.64
John
And everyone wins the environment wins you create jobs you you have these materials going back into new materials and also these huge carbon offsets because you're saving massive energy from drilling and mining to go get this material out of the ground. That you don't have to mind unnecessarily.

19:21.45
davidmcdermott
Yeah, we we actually had a previous guest Ryan Swenson who's the Ceo of ssconomy and there's a business here in Australia office works John. Which is a pretty big business and they you know they're the biggest supplier to office and schools. You know when school time comes all the kids are out at office works buying their you know their pens and pencils and rulers etc. Sooomy was actually a business that came out of office works and it became a separate entity. Ryan used to be an ah executive at Officeworks and was then appointed as Ceo and they're a circular economy business and their total focus is it's a bit different to yeah eri. But it's about taking stuff that would otherwise end up in waste and it's not just e-waste you know it can be office furniture and fitouts and all that sort of thing all that stuff that. Would otherwise go to landfill they take that and they refurbish and they do refurbish printers and phones and that sort of thing but as I understand something which you guys do is it sounds like you actually melt down the raw materials. Are you melting the metals down and you know giving it back or does that happen in in a separate. Part of the process.

20:29.84
John
It's a great question. We have strategic partners that invested in us that sit on our board of directors that actually do that so I'll give you our 3 strategic partners a company called Lsm and m out of South Korea Second largest copper and precious metal smelter in the world owned by the coup family.

20:42.96
davidmcdermott
M.

20:46.11
John
The coup family is the owners and founders of algae electronics. So they take back all of our copper and our and our and our precious metals and they do that Alcoa the famous brand Alcoa the aluminum brand Alcoa one hundred and fifty year old company Asin on our board of directors they invested in us and they take back our aluminum and last but not least.

20:47.73
davidmcdermott
Right.

20:58.91
davidmcdermott
Ah, m.

21:06.12
John
Ah, gentleman named J B Strabble who was a founder of redwood materials. J B is the co-founder of Tesla he sits on our board of directors and they take back all our lithium ion batteries and they smelt them down and then they they extract all the the metals from those the black mass the copper the nickel the cobalt.

21:10.80
davidmcdermott
M.

21:25.81
John
And they sell that back into the Ev marketplace. So again, it's a win on every level. But no, we don't own the Smelters orself our partners own the smelters they sit on our board of directors their investors and all of it goes back to the circular economy Everybody wins.

21:39.91
davidmcdermott
That is really cool and what an impressive board of directors. You guys have I mean it's It's one. Yeah I mean it's one of the things that we've seen on this show is the successful leaders attract high quality people around them. Both.

21:45.25
John
Yeah, I'm very lucky guy.

21:58.62
davidmcdermott
On their executive team. You know in their delivery team and on the board and yeah, you should a smart leader will gather a whole bunch of people around them who are smarter than they are at many things.

22:09.00
John
Ah, hundred percent not only smarter but have have spheres of influence and spheres of knowledge that they don't have and you know you don't want to make it a you don't make a board of directors of people that think and look just like you because then why do you just wake up and and look at the mirror every day and just talk to yourself then.

22:15.98
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

22:27.94
John
That's really all it becomes you have diversity and inclusivity of all different types of people from all different types of backgrounds. It makes decision making it makes the the vision. It makes everything richer and makes the innovation opportunities richer because you have a lot of different and diverse ideas.

22:28.36
davidmcdermott
Um.

22:45.97
John
And and thoughts that go into these ah the running of a company then and it's not all about you. It's not all about the 1 leader the like you say great leaders surround themselves with other great people.

22:59.48
davidmcdermott
Absolutely um I want to before we move to looking at where where is eri going which I want to make sure we leave some time for in terms of the vision for the future. Um I want to understand. More and help listeners to understand. Um, what? What really is the mission of yeah eri I mean I know that yeah tangibly you've got you're recycling e-waste you've talked about the problem of you know how that can leak into the soils and essentially yeah know there's a poisoning issue there and it's ah it's a really significant issue and a really. Beautiful and focus to to ah to work on reducing that. But as you say you wish you could say you're you're recycling all the e-waste and ten thousand tons yeah I think you said it's a drop in the ocean. Um, what? What is the the ultimate mission is is it to.

23:48.82
John
Right.

23:53.81
davidmcdermott
I mean because it reminds me a bit of Ray Anderson's interface who we actually interviewed the manager the australian managing director of interface. The the world's largest carpet manufacturer and Ray you know he has passed away now but he developed mission zero and then they're now missions takeback so they've achieved mission zero and they're just about now. Teaching other organizations. How to how to get their emisssions to net zero um and is it about just doing the best you can or is there a bold ambitious goal of we do want eventually to hit you know, 0 waste. What's the ultimate vision and and. What's the practical aspect of how that's going now.

24:36.16
John
We're tackling one part of the waste stream. The nice thing David the truth of the matter is we were very very early. We were if if you were to look at different businesses and say what were you like? ah you know in in other industries. Let's look at the internet business. Do you want to? you know we were the myspace of our industry we should have gone away a long time ago was we were so too early. The world wasn't ready for it but we so we hung in and just kept our head down and focused and and educated people that you got this is the right thing to do people.

24:56.78
davidmcdermott
A.

25:12.84
John
Although they understood it was the right thing David They didn't it was. It's a whole new It's a whole new light item that they have to pay for and people aren't interested and excited to wake up every morning and learn that that their business or their organization has another light item that they have to pay for. But then when they understood all the negative. Things that could happen and the outcomes that could happen if eas is mishandled first we have the environmental ones that you and I just talked about the stuff that gets into the environment and or are rivers or lakes and has no business getting there. But what we also need to talk about is privacy. The cybersec security trend has taken off since 2004 with the advent of palantier. And now all the biggest cybersecurity companies in the world and so when you think about your old electronics think about all of your family and organizational business. That's contained on your laptops on your tablets on your desktops on your cell phones if that was to get into the wrong people's hands.

26:06.29
davidmcdermott
A.

26:08.30
John
And not saying everybody's a wrong person but there are people that mine our old electronics for the information more than anything else. Ah that would be a catastrophe for a family. It would be a catastrophe for a business and this happens on a regular basis.

26:14.24
davidmcdermott
A.

26:25.60
John
So one of the things we also do is not only protect the environment. We protect the privacy of people of of of organizations of government entities homeland security is a client of the yeah of erai department of justice is a client of era the biggest the biggest defense contractors. And airlines are our our clients of Youri as are the biggest financial institutions because the environment is important to them. Yes, but also cyber security if they're going to be a sustainable business in a resilient business. They also have to protect themselves from allowing their trade secrets and their clients information.

26:52.17
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

27:03.11
John
To get in the wrong people's hands and that's another thing that we destroy and take care of on a regular basis and protect.

27:10.10
davidmcdermott
Yeah, and that's really cool to hear and I've I've seen that on the ah the yeah Ei website The the cyber security aspect I Want to probe a bit deeper because there's a principle here and it and it relates to leadership and it relates to philosophy and it relates to people's worldview. And it sort of links with you know the interface example I gave Um, you know they they can't they haven't achieved zero. You know perfectly. Um, neutral Environmental impact. Um for everyone and all the businesses they work with.

27:37.81
John
Um, right.

27:41.74
davidmcdermott
Ah, you know another more recent example, 1 of my clients is sea shepherd Australia and they're they're part of the global sea shepheron operation. They're kind of these Maverick Rebels who will drive their ships out and literally get between the whaling ships and the whales. The japanese whaling ships and 1 of their big successes. They.

27:57.67
John
Um, I've seen them.

27:58.87
davidmcdermott
Yeah, they they they have successfully ended whaling in the southern ocean and the australian operation and you know that's a pretty big win in the international marine court and so I was at a fundraising event for them recently and you know the Ceo was a client of mine and some other executives there and. At this event I so the Ceo spoke Jeff Hanson and and a couple of other supporters and the chairman and Peter Hammerstead captain Peter Hammerstead and what I really picked up and and this is the question I have for you John is they are aware that in terms of you know removing ah illegal plastics from the ocean. Um, stopping illegal fishing ending whaling you know all these priority areas that sea shepherd focuses on they. They've got some great wins. They're doing some awesome work. But they're aware There's a huge amount that goes unchecked and there's a lot of you know, enormous. Um, waste in terms of fish species ah being killed and you know in vast numbers that are totally unnecessary and in illegal fishing. There's marine reserves where poachers are coming and destroying populations and and that's going unchecked and. Their efforts to stop illegal shark culling. Ah you know a drop in the ocean but they wake up positive every day and they charge out and do it and and that's what I picked up is that there's this big problem of yeah, there's all these things which aren't being done which are continuing to be a problem and actually growing in scale.

29:29.21
davidmcdermott
But they wake up every day and they go and do their bit and they and they're happy and and they see that we're we' we're doing a beautiful thing and we're going to keep doing it and nothing's going to stop us We. We don't let the big. Yeah these other aspects get us down So That's what I want to throw back to you. I Mean is it the same kind of thing philosophically or how do you see what you're doing compared with you know the the bigger problem and the scale of that and the impact.

29:53.17
John
David you couldn't have brought up a better and more elegant analogy honest to gosh. That's literally exactly how I I think about it if you were to lay in bed every day and say okay I have era i. I built this thing with my partners. We have 9 locations. We're doing all this to ten Thousand tons a month but man the whole world's on fire climate change isn and moving fast enough. There's so many other problems we haven't even tackled the entire e-waste problem I wouldn't get out of bed any day and but I'm I'm of the exact mind that you just brought up hey. I'm gonna do the best and be my best and make erai the best it can be every day that's my job and my job is to be better and to get better and to make ei better every day to evolve it and not sit on our laurels not sit on our leadership position and to inspire other young people I encourage people hey you think this is a good story. We're in the top of the second inning. Maybe the bottom of the first come you start an eways company. Ah ah, young man young woman. There's plenty to do all around the world and or start a company that cleans water or fix. This is the single use plastic issue or any other issues that you see out there. That can are scalable commercializable and can be profitable but still also make a difference in the world and let's join hands and do it together because fixing the world. We didn't destroy this world alone. no no one company no one robber barron no one billionaire or no one organization

31:25.62
John
Destroy the environment and brought us to the brink of that we have with climate the climate issues that we have today. We're going to have to join hands inspire and encourage each other to work together in the sectors that we are in and the sectors that we know and the sectors that we need tackling and. Make the world better together. But there's unfortunately unfortunately the environment's only one so if there's a tragedy today on the environment in Australia that affects us in California that will make its way to California some portion of that pollution will make its way here and and impact us the same thing happens in other in Asia. In Europe in North America we're one and together. So this battle is one that we're fighting together and we all have to find our corner of it and then put our head down and work on it and make and and just try to make it better every day we're not It's not gonna be a perfect process. There's gonna be fits and starts. There's gonna be failures but we can't quit and we just have to be celebrate the wins and learn from our learn from the failures and keep moving forward and that's how I get up and that's how I lead this place every day.

32:36.30
davidmcdermott
That is very cool to hear and I love this topic because it's it's to me a philosophical topic. It's what's the philosophy. You've come to in your journey for anyone. Ah that you know even against apparent. You know, significant odds. You wake up every day and as you said John you do your best you strive to to make things better. Um, yeah, if we if we had more time I I get the sense. There's some very interesting territories to explore around this issue from a philosophical perspective and um, you know that. Perhaps goes beyond the scope of of our conversation today. But it's ah it's a really fascinating topic.

33:15.82
John
And I celebrate clients like you have I've watched them on on on my on my television and I've watched them get in between the whalers and and and try to get rid of all those bad practices and it's our job to celebrate them and encourage them and and and and cheer them on. And that's what we're supposed to be doing for 1 another you know David unfortunately from the greed is good generation of the eighty s back then so many people were meant to think millions of people who were interested in being an entrepreneur. Or capitalist. We're meant to think that it's a 0 sum world and it's actually the opposite. It's a world of abundance because because David's succeeding doesn't meet I'm failing because because ah, because ah one of my competitors is succeeding. Doesn't mean erai is failing. There's so much to do out there. We could all succeed together succeed financially and also environmentally socially and otherwise it's not a world. It's not a 0 sum world it's actually the reverse it's a world of Abundance and there's so many opportunities out there. You know how many times David I go and speak at Mba classes or colleges or other institutions and and and and and people raise their hand and say well I love your story of of of ah of financial aid dot com or ei but all the all the best ideas have been done I'm like.

34:48.71
John
I wish I was 21 again I've got a list that's longest list ever businesses I could start today that can be profitable scalable and not only make money but also make a difference. There's so many things out there for your listeners.

34:48.80
davidmcdermott
Person.

35:04.20
John
And ah to to to roll up their sleeves and do if that's what they really want to do and they can make a lot more than just the paycheck they can make the world a better place.

35:13.42
davidmcdermott
Absolutely and you know for further um, ah, um, examples please do also check out our interview with the managing director of interface Australia Rob Coombs who actually retired shortly after our interview with him but that's earlier where. You know he talks about very much the same topic. Um I mean I totally agree with you John and you know what I'm reminded of a a long time ago I was involved in a charity called Luca Leadership founded an affiliate of that in Australia and we used to run a lot of very hands-on practical leadership team building exercises. Ah, 4 young leaders that you know were clearly going to be up and coming and influential people in their in their own leadership journey. One of the ah team tasks. We used to call them that we ran. There were 4 different groups each had a different amount of materials like planks barrels ropes tires. Some teams had lots and lots of materials. Others had barely any and the task was essentially you know to build it. Um an island using a plank that the whole team could stand on that was the brief and the teams were left to their own devices and it was so interesting to see how. Different perspectives where teams would sort of hubble in and try and make their own thing with the resources and the team with the most would often celebrate and quickly make their bridge and then watch everyone else suffering and of course you know there was an opportunity there for all the teams to see it that.

36:38.66
davidmcdermott
The the task is for everyone to build a bridge successfully not just one team and of course the review afterwards drew out those insights. Whatever happened and sometimes people would share resources and sometimes they wouldn't but it was really interesting. It really drew out that collaboration Verse competition and how what is the ultimate goal here. Is it to win against another entity or is it actually to achieve a higher outcome and a higher purpose so you're you're totally in alignment with what I've experienced in my own journey.

37:08.32
John
Hundred percent hundred percent

37:11.95
davidmcdermott
And John believe it or not we're quickly moving towards time here but I just want to finish with from a leadership perspective and we use the term evolved leadership on this podcast. Whatever that means to you you know the word evolved and and tying that to leadership. From from your rich history of experience with the organisations. You've been involved with and now erai what would be a top tip or 2 that you you have for listeners who are looking to evolve as leaders in their own journey I know you've spoken already about the hard work ethic and being the first to arrive for.

37:46.62
John
Um, yeah, you know.

37:49.60
davidmcdermott
Must leave but what what are 1 or 2 other tips. You'd have to share on the topic of leadership.

37:53.44
John
Yeah, you know one thing as I do is I so I continue to study the great leaders I don't I don't I don't ever. You know the the quest to learn never ends and to be a lifelong student is so important for all of us to keep our brains fresh and and clear and sharp. But also to keep our skills fresh and sharp and um, you know recently unfortunately ah the the brilliant ingenious Charlie Munger passed away and I've just and I'm um, I'm ah owner of a stock. My wife and I haveve owned his stock over 20 years Berkshire Hathway we've been to their conference. But.

38:21.44
davidmcdermott
And.

38:32.84
John
I've I've just started more recently just reading his book and even today I just bought um his ah poor charlies ah almanac and I intend to read that during the holidays you could always continue to learn Charlie was ninety nine I'm 61 how much can I learn from his lifetime. It's.

38:45.70
davidmcdermott
Move.

38:50.18
John
It's it's beyond incredible I've just been enjoying reading everything I can just the last week about him and I've been a shareholder and up for over 20 years and I've I've learned a lot about him over the last twenty years but I realize I don't know enough so learning continually learning and staying a lifelong student is critical. And I want to go back to my favorite thing you know when I was young I didn't have some some some of my friends and relatives have the ability to remember songs and poems and that's just not my skill set my memory to to remember that stuff isn't that great. So when I was a very young kid. I committed to memory one poem and it was by my hero back then Muhammad Ali and that poem has served me so well, not only not only in my just in my my personal life but in my my leadership life and it's really a simple poem and it was his shortest poem. It's this is the poem David it goes like this me, we you can't ask people to do things that you won't do yourself and people are watching more than you ever believe your children are watching. Your spouse are significant others watching and every one of the people that you've been tasked to lead whether you're just a manager at a company whether you're a vice president or president at a company whether you're the owner or the Ceo everybody's watching you those who you think are watching.

40:20.48
davidmcdermott
Yep.

40:21.90
John
And those who who you don't think are watching are watching so you have to you have to live the life that you want to embody and that you want people to follow and that what you want your company to be if you want your company to be X. But you're acting like Y. You're not gonna get it to x. Even if you message X. But if you act like Y. You're not going to get there So it all starts with me and keeping my side of the street clean and keeping keeping my journey the right way and always standing in the right direction is is really the whole one of the key tenets to leadership. You can't say something and do another. They have to match up.

41:07.35
davidmcdermott
And 100 % and that was a really beautiful insight to share ah to finish and I love the the notion of study the great leaders and i. And I mean in in the leadership programs. We run we insert you know pieces of wisdom from various leaders. But it's something I've I've loved in my own journey and I know many many leaders don't prioritize doing is taking some time to read the great books like long walk to freedom by Nelson Mandela um you know, whatever mentors or leaders. You know, really hit the mark for you learning about them. Um, you know the founder of Grameen Bank Mohammed Yunus reading about his journey in life and infinite you know, infinite examples finding the ones that really float your boat and and studying them as you say.

41:54.10
John
Correct and also find so find some leaders that you not necessarily agreed with from what you read about them in the media and and learn the other side learn about leaders who you thought were on the other side of what other opinions you have.

41:56.13
davidmcdermott
Brings enormous benefit.

42:13.82
John
And and and find a way to keep an open space to learn about other sides. It's only going to make you a richer person to be able to argue both sides of any important social political or business issue of the day. So. There's so many great leaders out there whether they're great coaches from sports. Whether they're the great political leaders as you point out whether they're the great social leaders like Mahatma Gandhi ah but Martin Luther King and and so many others including including Winston Churchill they so many great leaders and now Charlie Munger we've lost a legend. Actually we've lost numerous legends in one week in one short week. We lost Sandra Day O'connor 93 year old brilliant woman first woman on the supreme court of the United States we lost Charlie Munger we lost Rosalind Carter and we lost Henry Kissinger for the greatest leaders in America in world history probably and there's a lot to learn from all of them. We all can learn more and we all can be better and if we're better ourselves. We're better leaders. Ultimately.

43:44.64
davidmcdermott
That that can be that can be edited out. Sorry so thank you very much for calling that out. John um, it's been a big week in the world of leadership and thank you for for honoring those names that that you mentioned those leaders to finish.

43:48.90
John
I.

44:04.70
davidmcdermott
We're we're going to put in the show notes the you know obviously the the details to direct people towards yeah ei and um, and for you on Linkedin if if people want to connect and and the company page is there anything else that you direct listeners to you know whether it's ah. Um, articles of interest resources books you know, anything at all that that you'd um, recommend for people's own journey of evolution.

44:32.48
John
You know, ah 1 other one other thing I have to say we all can't sit and read quietly every day reading is very important but we all we all want to be healthy and all want to be our best also physically and mentally so I find another great hack. And another great way to keep taking in knowledge and learning is I listen to a lot of books audiobooks and podcasts the right type type of podcasts and audiobooks can be also great resources. So when I'm in the gym lifting weights I'm listening I'm not just listening to music. Willy -nilly I'm listening to some of the great leaders out there. Who've written amazing books same thing when I'm on a walk or a run I'm listening same thing if I'm in the car instead of using that as dead time I either if I'm if I'm listening to to great great thoughts and great wisdom. There's a lot of ways to take it in It's not only anymore. A unilateral way of books and and keep your mind and ears open for everything. There's lots of ways to take in wisdom that can help you be a better leader.

45:38.61
davidmcdermott
Well thank you so much John and it's been really really cool to speak with you today and and hear about your journey you know leading up to yeah eri what? ah erri does and and the awesome impact that the organization has ah. You know? and and also the philosophical aspect of waking up and doing your best you know despite you know what might be going on around you. Thanks! Thanks so much for your generosity today and it's been really great to have you on the show.

46:08.18
John
Grateful for the time. Thank you for having me love to love to I wish you continued success in good health and your in your podcast and all your endeavors David and keep up the great work.

46:20.36
davidmcdermott
Thank you John.