#38 We've All Got A Purpose, with Tim Dwyer, Founder and Managing Director of Tolemy

My guest in this episode is Tim Dwyer.  Tim is the founder and Managing Director of Tolemy, a brand-led growth agency educating entrepreneurs and business owners on how to design, build and activate a business strategy based on a foundation of core assets aligned with purpose. 

Tim has worked with private industry for over 25 years, supporting thousands of businesses to grow and scale. He believe that by helping business leaders shift mindsets, businesses and industries can shift to benefit our communities and society.

Highlights of our conversation include the Tolemy framework acting as a "Google Map" for your business, making the point that we've all got a purpose, ego being a wonderful servant but a terrible master, and the importance as a leader of working out what your trauma has been.

Enjoy the conversation 

To find out more about Tolemy go to: https://tolemy.com

You can connect with Karl on LinkedIn at:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/timdwyer1

To learn more about what it takes to be an evolved leader, and to check out our other podcast episodes, go to:  https://www.evolvedstrategy.com.au

Chapters

• 4:39 The 5 Whys: A Toyota example
• 9:14 What if you had a "Google Map" for your business?
• 14:44 We've all got a purpose
• 18:14 Our gift is our inner capability
• 25:41 Ego is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master
• 32:09 Work out what your trauma has been

Transcript

01:44.22
davidmcdermott
Hi guys my guest today's tim dwyer tim has worked with private industry for over twenty five years supporting thousands of businesses to grow and scale. He's the founder and managing director of ptolemy. Ah, brand-led growth agency educating entrepreneurs and business owners in how to design build and activate a business strategy based on a foundation of core assets aligned with purpose by helping business leaders shift mindsets. Businesses and industries can shift to benefit our communities and society something tim is most passionate about enabling tim's specialties are product innovation leading with brand led go-to-market strategies. And offering creative insights to problem solve and create growth opportunities for clients tim brings business frameworks to life breaking down the complexities by sharing experiences and is well known for connecting businesses to their vision and purpose. Tim welcome to the show.

02:49.83
Tim Dwyer
Thanks David good to be here.

02:55.37
davidmcdermott
Let's start with I know you? um you have a ah very interesting history from our previous conversations. What what would you like to share of that with listeners to kick off with.

03:06.23
Tim Dwyer
Um, so yeah, so history is important of course and 1 of the things that I've been doing over the last twenty five years is learning about the growth pathways and the growth mapping for business. Um, so back in my corporate career I headed up a sales strategy for telstra at the time back in the 90 s um and at that that point in time I realized there was no clear pathway for.

03:39.89
Tim Dwyer
Guiding small and medium and private enterprise on growth. There was a lot of consulting companies that were helping corporates but there was very little support that was happening in the private enterprise market. So what I decided to do was to jump out of the corporate world and jump into. Small and medium enterprise and learn for myself. What this growth journey was all about and so the last twenty five years I've been working on the mind part of the growth which is the mathematics I've been working on the heart side of growth which is our motions and how our motions impact our decisions. As well as getting connected into the spirit side of things which is connecting to our true purpose for what we're here to do and so I've been having a hell of a lot of fun going through that process but but whilst I've been doing it I've been mapping all the mistakes. So all the mistakes along the way and I affectionately say that I've made six hundred and twenty seven myself um and been mapping all of those so that I can see where the hidden dangers are and been busy putting it into a mapping system so people can.

04:37.60
davidmcdermott
Since.

04:50.88
Tim Dwyer
Ah grow with more confidence.

04:52.13
davidmcdermott
Well I'm afraid I beat you because I've made 947 mistakes in my own career. This.

05:01.18
Tim Dwyer
Ah, there's a funny stat that ninety four point seven percent of all stats are made up on the spot. Yeah.

05:05.68
davidmcdermott
Correct. So I mean ah just in terms of probing your history a little bit. Um you know of of all the mistakes that we make you know which usually are the things that teach us the most is there a real doozy which um. But you can share with listeners know something that where you you would say Wow that was a big one but on reflection it was necessary and you know all part of my own transformation.

05:35.50
Tim Dwyer
Yeah, well at at a top level. Ah, all success is founded in either capability or culture. So so when a business has ah a very strong cultural foundations. Um, and they're highly capable. Um, then they will be successful. Um, the root cause of every failure and every mistake um is actually something to do with culture or it's something to do with capability. Um, and so when when an organization has both those elements mapped. Um, they can see where they need to build the next level of capability or where they need to resolve ah a cultural issue. Um, so that they don't fall into a pit on that and they don't fail so at the at the very very high level. I mean if you look at. Um, for instance Toyota work this out many many years ago um that they've got a ah 5 wise exercise where they they go into root cause analysis of why something will fail and they ask the question. Why 5 times.

06:49.51
Tim Dwyer
Um, and in every case it comes back to a training or a capability issue always comes back to that. Um, um, you marry that up with culture So culture is all about the attitudes and the energy and commitment of the people to the organization.

07:08.15
Tim Dwyer
And capabilities all the um, the elements around technical capability as well as management Capability Leadership Capability Strategic capability. So there's all the different elements that we've put into the ptolemy map to be able to assess whether a business has capability or not.

07:25.97
davidmcdermott
Yeah, and I think we'll dive more deeply into the the ptolemy map and all that is ptolemy and shortly um, is there anything else in terms of you know what got you here and I know you know there's the Sherlos Story you know and another. And other aspects is there anything from that. That's interesting to mention that listeners might might find useful.

07:54.13
Tim Dwyer
Um, well I mean the the ah every every so every pathway that we enter into I mean I when I when I set out in business. Um. My father. My father said to me son it doesn't matter what you do as long as you're the best at it and I said okay, that's good advice. Um, so so when I get out no pressure. So when I set out in the business journey and especially when I.

08:10.98
davidmcdermott
Sneak. No, but no pressure.

08:25.40
Tim Dwyer
Stepped out into the entrepreneurial world I set the intention to be the best that I could be ah now when when we set an intention to be the best that we can be ah what happens is is all the stuff. That's not the best shows up.

08:45.60
Tim Dwyer
So so life is a reflection So everything that I've gone through the the number one ah element to it all is I create my own reality. So everything that shows up for me is a lesson for me.

09:00.26
Tim Dwyer
And so all the way through my when I started out the coaching business when I started out the mathematical structuring business when I started the brand business each time I started a new one. Um I would learn.

09:14.43
Tim Dwyer
What I needed to learn at the point in time and if I took responsibility or as I took responsibility I was able to then collect those learnings and evolve my business practices to be able to achieve the successes that that we get from good capability and good culture. So um, so each business journey to today has been absolutely perfect. I've learned an enormous amount that the sherlo's journey was ah amazing. It taught me around. Ah it. It was the start around the belief side of things understanding that what we believe is what we create.

09:50.85
davidmcdermott
Um.

09:51.60
Tim Dwyer
Um, it showed how the emotional journey unfolded in business and so there were some some terrific frameworks that were in the in the in the Sherlos kitbag.

10:01.42
Tim Dwyer
Um, and then and then when I went into the structuring and the mathematics and then back into my origins of the brand side of things working with some global leaders in that space again a whole lot of the the issues and the mistakes that society and business makes as a collective showed up. Um, so we're able to sort of identify those and see the trends and go okay I can see where this is heading. Let's let's change our business this way and that's where ptolemy was born.

10:27.32
davidmcdermott
So it's time now to dive into that and um, when when you and I know started speaking I was really struck by ptolemy and and I'll you know also just explain for listeners. You know, particularly moving forward. It's it's not going to be um. Normal for a coach you know consultant to be ah on the show. It's it's usually execs or you know business owners who are out charging in different ways. But I I invited Tim to be on the show because I was so blown away by what he's building with ptolemy and. I so I sit I probably only understand the tiny tip of the iceberg at the moment but I get the sense that there's a really incredible system which um, which is going to be of great benefit to anyone who uses it and that's why I I wanted Tim to come on the show and speak about what he's doing and and how it can be of. Of use and it hasn't yet launched as I understand you know in ah in a big public way. But it's it's sort of getting to the point where it can be used by by leaders and and I think you said Tim anyone in business. So rather than me trying to explain what it is how how do you explain it to.

11:32.80
Tim Dwyer
Yeah.

11:39.71
davidmcdermott
You know the and anyone who who's listening whether they're an expert in business or not.

11:43.70
Tim Dwyer
Um, okay, well what what? I do if I ah might just spend 1 or 2 minutes giving some of the inspiration behind it first just to give a a bit bit of the backstory. So um, one of the one of the things happened in the 2000 was we had Gps mapping come out.

11:50.20
davidmcdermott
Cool.

12:02.33
Tim Dwyer
In the form of Google maps and Apple maps and and other different navigational systems that came out to personalize navigation one of the one of the things I so ah said to myself at the time when I saw it and experienced it for the first time was ah imagine what it would be like if. Business. Every business had an equivalent Google maps for their business because what Google maps has done for us as it removes stress. It's given a far greater confidence. Um, and it's helped automate. Decision making so that people when they enter in their destination and they know their starting point. It gives you choices of how to get from a to b based on on your preferences now. Um ah in in mapping systems. Ah mapping systems that.

12:45.65
davidmcdermott
Are.

12:54.82
Tim Dwyer
In history have given us confidence to grow and expand so at the core of this is all about connection at the core of it. It's all about exploration and expansion all the way through history. It's been the explorers. And that have been the ones that have been the most successful because they've gone out and found new riches and new ways to open up commercial commercial pathways so to speak even if we go back to the seventeen hundreds um in the seventeen hundreds um there was ah we we were using longitude and latitude to map the world. That's the most um, most used system. But what we didn't have is we didn't have longitude at sea because of um, the weather would block us out and and we couldn't use the stars to navigate with. Using longitude and latitude. It wasn't until the mid seventeen hundreds when the Harrison clock was invented. Did it create safe passage at sea because Longititude was now being able to be measured at Sea. So so the sea bearers wouldn't actually and there was a lot of people eyes lost before that now what happened is as soon as longitude was invented at sea it opened up the world because we could navigate our oceans with more confidence.

14:23.24
Tim Dwyer
Which then created the mass expansion of people around the world I mean it's where Australia was discovered where the us was expanded upon because of the safe navigation. So when when I was creating the ptolemy map I was creating it to work out what will help. Businesses navigate the growth journey the best and so what I had to do is I had to go back into well what is the objective of business to start off with and and how do we? How do we map it successfully so that we can learn from each other. As well as learn from previous people's mistakes around where the pitfalls are where the dangers lie in business. Um, and so what I've done is I've created an autolemy map that that covers every aspect of business and life and puts it into a mapping system so people can see. How each element impacts each other element with ease. So that's the the the quick overview in 3 minutes

15:27.50
davidmcdermott
And I guess you created this in a couple of hours

15:33.23
Tim Dwyer
Yeah, no, a little bit more time than that. So but but what what it's done though. It's um, what what? I what I've basically done is I've mapped. How do we create value. So the the objective of business.

15:34.45
davidmcdermott
For first.

15:48.87
Tim Dwyer
Is to create the maximum value exchange with the most amount of leverage whilst having the most amount of fun. So for me, that's the global objective and the global purpose of business. Yeah, um, so yeah. You you look like you got a question on there. David.

16:09.63
davidmcdermott
Yes, and because I really like that you mentioned the word fun because that can often get lost and what what people use the word fun. They you know it can be used as a token because ideally everyone wants to but how how does that practically come in when um, you know you. Working in a business in that may not be in an industry that has a reputation for being fun like if you if you take it to you know law or or banking or something like that and sure you know you can. You can definitely have fun in that sort of industry and there's so many different types of roles. But um. And particularly law just to look at that it it traditionally comes with a requirement for a risk mindset and having to watch out for things that might go wrong and having known many lawyers in my life and had personally with friends and others I've often heard in you know in the Big. Law firms. It's it's quite difficult to maintain an upbeat positive attitude because everyone's really in this risk mindset I mean in in those sorts of Industries. How How do you bring fun and how how can the ptolemy system work there.

17:15.32
Tim Dwyer
Yeah, well I mean so the the autonomy system's got 4 components to it. So it's got longitude and latitude but instead of longitude it's got how do I create value and then how do I create value instead of latitude. It's.

17:20.64
davidmcdermott
And.

17:33.36
Tim Dwyer
How do I create value in relationship with others others um now at the at the very top of how do we create value is our purpose. Um, so we've we've all got a purpose when we've all and when we when we learn to connect with what our purpose is. Um, and we learn to move towards what we're drawn to do as opposed to what we're driven to do the world starts becoming a hell of a lot more fun now. Um they say if you love what you do,? You'll never work a day in your life So connecting into. Ah, passion and it's connecting into purpose now if if I'm in a legal practice. For instance, my purpose might be to de-risk business. Um, and I need to work with my private clients to de-risk them. So therefore I'm I'm connecting with that purpose and so therefore the the risk.

18:26.68
davidmcdermott
And then.

18:30.71
Tim Dwyer
Is not the heaviness anymore. It's the lightness. Um, it's when we it's when we get caught up in what what I call a spin right? So people get caught in a spin as I call it a spin cycle in business. Um, when they make it about themselves now.

18:31.53
davidmcdermott
M.

18:50.47
Tim Dwyer
When we make it about other people and we're in service of other people and we remember that we're in service every single person on the planet is here to be in service and we know what our role is and we know what our asset being our gift is. We can then go and get out of the spin because we're not making it about Ourselves. We're making it about our clients or we're making it about the people that we're here to serve when we make it about them lightness and fun comes into it because it's all a game anyway. So if we learn how to play the game to be better in service then.

19:16.31
davidmcdermott
Um.

19:24.56
Tim Dwyer
We can have a hell of a lot of fun.

19:24.93
davidmcdermott
And you know you're revealing your very and progressive and and positive perspectives which there would be a journey there I know of how you came to those views I want to play Devil's advocate a little bit and be the person who. Um, you know is in the shoes of waking up and their their work experience might be okay, but not necessarily mind-blowing and um and representing you know, many on the planet who who probably would see work as more a requirement rather than a. You know a requirement to survive and provide and and if they didn't have to and provide then they yeah they wouldn't be doing that work and you you make this statement. Everyone has a purpose and that's just a firecra at it to unpack. But I I do want to go I do want to go into that with you.

20:19.40
Tim Dwyer
Um, yeah.

20:21.68
davidmcdermott
And my question is not how do you know because that's probably the subject of philosophy and and a whole bunch of inquiry which goes well beyond the scope of this conversation but my question and for today is more in terms of we all have a purpose. Ah, what? where does that come from.

20:46.29
Tim Dwyer
Um, so ah, so there's the rules of the game. So we're in a game we're in this this universe called a game right? So and we're and we're on this planet called Planet Earth and we're being given these beautiful machines called a human body.

21:03.84
Tim Dwyer
From which to have ah an experience. So the the first comment is we're all spiritual beings having a human experience. So so whether you believe in God or other elements that like this is not an accident that we're here.

21:22.82
Tim Dwyer
But so but we're here for a purpose. Um the purpose firstly is to have fun right? The first the per the we're supposed to we're we're here to enjoy ourselves and enjoy life. Um, now in order to do that though. There's rules to this game.

21:40.00
Tim Dwyer
The the first rule is we're here to be in service of everyone else. We're here to be in service so we have a purpose and we have a gift and our and our role here is to give our gift to the world. So other people can benefit from that gift. Um, the gift is our in ah inner asset. Our gift is our inner capability. Our purpose is how we get it out there now when people say I don't know what my purpose is I go. That's okay, if you there's no language around it yet right. All you need to do is be in service of other people in your daily role or in service of your family or in service of your kids. It's not to bear servant right? So I'm not a servant to my kids but I'm in service to my kids but I've got ah I've got a role to play.

22:26.54
davidmcdermott
Are.

22:33.83
Tim Dwyer
To bring them up as safely as I possibly can and give them good rules and boundaries and help them build their capability so in my family life for my kids. My purpose is to help my kids develop um the purpose with my wife is to love her. Um, is to be in service of her.

22:50.26
davidmcdermott
Yeah, so yeah, so what I'm hearing is I mean you could say fundamentally what what you're speaking about when you say purpose is everyone's purpose ultimately is to be in service.

22:52.75
Tim Dwyer
Not to be her servant right? My post? yeah.

23:05.68
Tim Dwyer
If.

23:07.10
davidmcdermott
But that will manifest differently for each and every unique individual and of course there are many on the planet who don't see it that way and and have it connected with that way of thinking but like along you know that track of what you're speaking about and it sounds like at whatever point in time is right for them. There is this insight for everyone to have that being in service is where it's at and ah and you're calling it. The rules of the game and when you find what that is for you then I guess you're living at at your optimum.

23:31.57
Tim Dwyer
Um, and.

23:36.57
Tim Dwyer
Yeah, exactly. So once once once people realize that and start acting in that way. What happens is the language around it will start to present itself and the language is important. Because when we know what the language is it starts to resonate inside of us and when it resonates inside of us. We can then open up and communicate our purpose so when we can open up and communicate our purpose. It means that we are then able to more authentically. Live our purpose because we've now got language around it but the starting point is just the belief and the desire to go help other people first.

24:13.32
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah.

24:21.30
davidmcdermott
And there's something here which I'll call out because I I was raised literally from birth and I've I've spoken about this a little bit in and episode 0 and and other podcasts and with a a very strong influence with with this kind of idea. Um, of being in service is is where the ultimate peak experience in life is and that was really healthy and I'm really glad for that input in my formative years but the not and great side of that was it also came with ah essentially just. Give yourself sacrifice everything a very stoic kind of attitude of you know which led to and blocking emotion. You know, being physically very kind of tough and and that kind of um, not necessarily hard enough but a bit of that and. That was combined with this idea of serving serving and and there was the healthy side of being opened up to the idea of service to others but it came with this idea of not actually looking at myself as part of that service to others and um I just want to call out as someone who learned this lesson the hard way over many years that I've learnt that an equally important part of being of service to others is to be of service to yourself and I found that absolutely includes full nourishment and rejuvenation taking time to to get a good deep massage on a regular basis if if that works for you enjoying the spar and saa.

25:42.34
Tim Dwyer
Um, yeah.

25:51.60
Tim Dwyer
Yeah.

25:56.18
davidmcdermott
You know, having a really strong exercise regime making sure you you're spending time with friends as well as family and doing your hobbies I found all of that is totally part of being in service rather than separate and and I was brought up with the idea that.

25:58.65
Tim Dwyer
Um, or.

26:14.13
davidmcdermott
The 2 work against each other and it took quite a while to integrate them that they're actually totally necessary for each other. So for listeners who might who may have made the same mistake that I did one of the nine hundred and forty seven I just wanted to put that out there for and for those to to avoid what I what I went through.

26:20.62
Tim Dwyer
Um.

26:24.68
Tim Dwyer
But well it's's it's funny what you've what you've mentioned there David is the second rule of the game. So there's there's all these rules to this game. The first one is that we're all in servicer for each other.

26:35.68
davidmcdermott
Right.

26:44.75
Tim Dwyer
Um, and in being in service we need to give first but we also need to receive so we need to be open to receiving. Um, so that's the that's the so in the ptolemy map the ptolemy maps actually it's ah it's mapped against the energy cycle. So. Up here. You you give and then you receive you give and you receive you give and you receive if you give and then you don't receive the energy gets blocked and so the the whole purpose of business. If ah, if the statement I said before was around value exchange.

27:20.66
davidmcdermott
Yep.

27:21.28
Tim Dwyer
Ah, we need to exchange value and in that we give and then we receive now the second rule of the game is self-care. So so the the whole aim here is. It's like um when you get on a plane I know it's not the best analogy they say you've got to put your mask on first before helping those others around you um the the principle applies if if we deplete our energy by giving so much and we don't look after ourselves first. Then that's exactly what happened is depletion happens now. So self-care rituals are incredibly important to keep our energy up and self-care in another way, it's ah self-care equals self-love. So when we when we care for ourselves so much we can then have that overflow to others if we're not caring for ourselves. It's really really hard to be in service. So what? you've just mentioned there is rule 2 of the game.

28:28.34
davidmcdermott
Perfect well um, and 2 big ticks from me so far and and is there a rule 3

28:36.44
Tim Dwyer
Um, Rule three is driven to Drawn. So This is a game see that the the game we have is ah we have a mind to be able to work out Logic. We have a heart to be able to with to feel and we have a spirit. Guides us which is which is our intuition So ah, different language patterns around spirit is gut feel intuition knowing um guidance connection to source like there's all these different descriptions for how we connect into spirit. But when we connect into our intuition into our spirit. We find what we're drawn to do as opposed to what we're driven to do Now. So So when we know when we can connect into what we're drawn to do it means that we're letting go of our Ego. So rule 3 for those that are writinging these down is ego is a wonderful servant but a terrible master so ego is there. How do we know if we when our ego is engaged well, our ego is engaged when it's when it's looking for all the problems. So Ego identifies problems which is good but what we want to do is we don't want to make decisions based on our ego because quite often Ego is ah in a fear construct. It will be looking at the problems and putting a fear into it and if if our ego is running the show. We might be.

30:08.90
Tim Dwyer
Feeling anxious about something or we might be feeling disconnected or it' normally be ah if ego is running the show that we'll be having a negative emotional experience when when ego is used as a tool and we partner with our ego as a tool but we do what we're drawn to do because that's what we're here to do.

30:27.68
Tim Dwyer
Then things open up and and and business and life flows so that the the rule number 3 is let your ego be a servant not the master.

30:29.45
davidmcdermott
Are. Yeah, and that's what I'm reminded of is is Plato's analogy of the the chariot and he I think uses the word mind and then he gives the example of the the mind as the chariot with the horses and the soul or spirit. As the chariote and he's talking about when um when the mind is is left unregulated particularly by um, having the senses out of balance the five senses and all the various you know inputs that are coming if that's out of balance. The mind is going to. Drive the chariot and the chariotteer will not have control and it's all over the place whereas when when there's balance you know, ah particularly he's in that analogy talking about around how we manage our sense our senseate life then as you said it's a good servant.

31:17.21
Tim Dwyer
Um, yeah.

31:31.66
davidmcdermott
So it's a mad master but a good servant is is how Plato describes that spirit as charioteer with the mind and senses as the chariot and horses and.

31:36.77
Tim Dwyer
That's it.

31:41.55
Tim Dwyer
That's it. Yeah I mean all all of the all of these learnings and all of these rules of the game have been around for for eons. But boy, there's there's there's a couple that I've got in here that have been completely forgotten and when people. Remember them. They go oh my god now I can see why there's been so many problems sharp in my business is because I wasn't following a fundamental rule of the game. But so John draw me to go to rule number 4.

32:02.55
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah.

32:06.46
davidmcdermott
I Think everyone is is salivating and waiting to hear what's next.

32:11.11
Tim Dwyer
Ah, okay, so um, rule rule number 4 is we we are the creators of our reality now. So we we we in our own world. We create our own reality. So whatever's going on for us is our creation. Now. We're either creating 1 of 2 things so we're either creating value in the world and for ourselves or we're creating drama but we're always creating now. So there's 2 fantastic psychologists. Um, who documented this um in the nineteen late nineteen hundreds being maslow so maslow, most people would have heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Um, and that's looking at where we go from our baseline needs of um. Shelter food and shelter all the way up to self-actualization at self-actualization. We realize that we are the creators of our reality. That's what self-actualization is um now so that's what we call above the line. We've got maslow's hierarchy of needs where we're creating value. Now as per rule number 3 we get out of our out of our ego and go create the value that we're drawn to go create in service of other people as well as to receive now below the line. However.

33:41.26
Tim Dwyer
Is Carpman's drama triangle so a lot of people would have heard of the drama triangle before it was sourced by Carpman he was the creator of it and in that what he worked out is when drama is created. There's a persecutor. There's a rescuer and there's a victim and when we're playing with we're persecuting someone or ourselves or we're rescuing someone or ourselves or we're the victim of someone or we're a victim of ourselves we're sitting in the drama triangle now. Now drama triangle lowers our energy vibration whereas ma's maslow's hierarchy and needs elevates our energy vibration but the rule of the game is understanding that where the creators of our reality and we're creating one of 2 things all the time. The art of the game is to work out how to remove drama from your world and then stay as a high percentage up into the creation of value when we learn to remove drama. We replace it with value creation which means that.

34:52.71
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah is bohi.

34:54.74
Tim Dwyer
Starts to expand our business and our success exponentially because Drama is no longer holding us back.

35:03.34
davidmcdermott
Yeah, and you're yeah, really really cool and you're talking about. And yeah, we we are effectively either evolve or evolve at any given point in time and and it's really ah often a.

35:11.94
Tim Dwyer
Yeah.

35:17.96
davidmcdermott
And there there are unconscious trials but we we certainly have influence and and the ability to be conscious in in our experience there I mean I mean I'm just seeing the the amount of drama that occurs in Businesses. No personal lives aside. But if we just look at businesses. And and from um, you know difficult clients difficult team members. You know, poor leadership and you know systems that that are outdated or you know aren't there and and so many other things that can create and drama that.

35:43.90
Tim Dwyer
Um, who.

35:51.80
davidmcdermott
As you as you describe it Tim if if there was a principle which enabled drama to be minimized and deleted. You know that every every minimisation and deletion of of drama absolutely uplifts, a business and and enables it to be stronger and clearer and and that certainly have more fun.

36:05.40
Tim Dwyer
And approve.

36:11.44
davidmcdermott
In in the in the business and be able to more easily achieve its and its objectives. It's a pretty simple philosophy. But um, the implementation of it however is a totally different ballgame.

36:25.54
Tim Dwyer
Yeah, you, you're spot on see um my my advice for all entrepreneurs and business leaders is to work out what their trauma has been so every single person. That comes into this planet has experienced trauma of some kind some people have have experienced extreme trauma in their early days from naught to seven seven to 1414 to 21 ah, those forming years of our lives is where we create our beliefs our initial beliefs now in the initial beliefs are limiting beliefs which are sourced in trauma now trauma for instance for me. Um, was um. I had ah a very blessed um, upbringing. But even though I had a very privileged upbringing I still carried trauma from my childhood into my adulthood.

37:31.71
Tim Dwyer
Um, ah forgotten that I've just got a mental blank on the person who would show me the child at 7 and I'll show you the adult. Um, um, ah yeah, um, it's it's been. It's been quoted a lot. So ah, the thing is um trauma.

37:36.28
davidmcdermott
I could have been skinner or someone like that. Yeah.

37:50.54
Tim Dwyer
All drama is sourced from trauma. So all drama is sourced from trauma and all trauma is sits in the subconscious. So the subconscious mind drives our machine. And it's over 30000 times stronger than our conscious mind and our subconscious is always recording everything right? So when we learn to tap into our subconscious to find out what our trauma is. We we learn not to bring that trauma and drama into our business now the leadership when the leadership knows their trauma and knows their drama. They won't create drama. They won't subconsciously create. It.

38:23.54
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

38:31.98
davidmcdermott
Yeah. So this is an area I mean yes, it depends on who's facilitating and and who's coaching but this this is an area which doesn't get so much airtime and and probably you know mint. Minimal airtime in a lot certainly in a lot of business consulting work. You know if if any I'm reminded of our first guest on the show. Tim Mundan who who is the former global chief learning officer at Unilever and Tim talked about putting 40000 people at Unilever through their deep purpose workshop and. At 1 point he shared his own story of realizing and dealing with a major trauma that he had which was due to a car accident in his younger years and he also had spent about 10 years in the army and I think there were there were aspects there. Um, but Tim I mean no, but. When I met him and then much later interviewed him on the show. He'd already achieved an incredible amount as a leader you know I met him he founded a global leadership development charity separate to his work at Unilever and and that's how we connected but he didn't.

39:40.10
Tim Dwyer
That.

39:43.72
davidmcdermott
Come to deal and acknowledge and deal with this particular trauma till much later I think only sort of four or five years ago and he was already working at the highest levels but he just really noticed how and you can check out episode 1 to hear the detail how he. He would go and revert to a fairly childlike and immature state with certain triggers and yeah, he finally actually went into that and had a look and found out it went back to this car accident and I asked him about therapy and how much of a role therapy had and.

40:06.67
Tim Dwyer
Him.

40:17.20
davidmcdermott
He said for him. Certainly you know, definitely involved a journey of individual therapy. So I just wanted to highlight that part with what you're talking about with leaders understanding their trauma. Tim, how does therapy fit into this and the whole world of clinical psychology because when you you know. Trigger potentially quite unopened trauma or something that someone hasn't looked at or it's quite fresh or raw. It can you know, send people into states that if you're in a room of executives may not be a safe place for them to talk about that will will work with it. So how do how do you? suggest.

40:52.47
Tim Dwyer
Yeah, well so so firstly you mentioned a ah very important word there being the word trigger see it's it's becoming aware and so.

40:53.99
davidmcdermott
Leaders work with it about a million in the toller in the ptolem in the ptolemy model.

41:09.99
Tim Dwyer
There's a lot of development programs out there. There's a lot of psychotherapy processes that can help people there. There's a lot of advanced methodologies that are now coming into society that can help people go down into their subconscious to find out what their triggers are. So when we know we're triggered We have a reaction inside us so we have ah so it's an it's an explosion. It's a reaction someone someone says something to us and we react not respond when we have an internal combustion reaction. It means that we're. Somehow we've been Triggered. We've had a limiting belief triggered of some sort now when we are conscious enough that we've been Triggered. We can breathe a news breath work or we can breathe through it and use meditation methods to work out or why did I Why was I triggered then. Now if you're sitting in ah in ah in a boardroom table and and and someone's triggered you the art of the game is to breathe through it and just go Okay I'll explore that later or if in some organizations you actually have permission to explore it then and there. And in exploring it then and there you can get reflection back to you which can give you the Answer. So if you're in a community environment where you've all got permission to talk about your triggers or when you are triggered you can get insight from just the people around you it doesn't have to be a psychologist.

42:45.10
Tim Dwyer
Can be the people around you that know you that can help share. Could it be this or could it be that and then when you when you allow yourself in Meditative State to go back into your history. You can then see where the source of the trigger is but it it takes practice and it and there aren't. Specific techniques on how to do it.

43:03.96
davidmcdermott
So What I'm hearing is for anyone to understand and and resolve their triggers and I guess become a more free person. You know that isn't isn't going to be a slave to their trauma and. They may or may not.

43:21.13
Tim Dwyer
You become you? Yeah you you become the neutral observer So when when when you work out that when we're not this body went like we're here to have this experience and you go Well let the feeling experience. You're not even you're not even your feelings. Ah.

43:38.31
Tim Dwyer
Ah, we're a spiritual being So What we're doing is it's it's to observe them and go Oh. Let's go into that. What's that all about why am I feeling Angry. Why am I feeling Frustrated. Why am I feeling Joy. Why am I Like. It's all these different feelings you go I Wonder what's and if it's a negative one you go I Wonder what's triggered that and it's the it's the the art of being curious to work Out. What's what's actually going on.

43:59.45
davidmcdermott
Yep.

44:02.92
davidmcdermott
So it sounds like with the ptolemy map and system and that there are methodologies that are part of that took for and for people who engage with the with the system to to work on their own trauma is that correct.

44:17.17
Tim Dwyer
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, there's places and things you can do to to work it out and to work out. Well, what do I need to do and what am I what am I what am I working on today that at the source of the ptolemy map is what we believe is what we create.

44:28.50
davidmcdermott
M.

44:35.74
Tim Dwyer
At the source of it. We're here to connect explore and expand our consciousness the way that we do that is to remove limiting Beliefs Now once we remove limiting Beliefs Then what happens is the energy opens up in business. As soon as we remove the drama. Because we understand where the trauma and the triggers are for the leader when the leader learns. How to do that then the leader then can start setting boundaries for the business So that other people's trauma and drama don't impact the business. Yeah, which is.

45:08.18
davidmcdermott
Perfect. Yeah, but let's hear it.

45:11.19
Tim Dwyer
Which which is the fifth rule of the game. So the fifth rule. So the fifth rule of the game is hold your virtual virtues close now. So so virtues have been around since Aristotle right? So he he came up with the 4 cardinal virtues for which to live life now there's 4 of them and if if you go back into history. You'll see these virtues everywhere. But um, ah this this they're marked to be a shield so they they're they're there to protect us from negative actions and energy now. So there's prudence justice fortitude. And Temperance Prudence justice fortitude temperance now our virtues is prudence is being prudent with who I share my inner truth with yep. So as I said before if you're in a boardroom that hasn't got permission. To be able to share you're in in truth you don't want to share you're in a truth if there's potentially a hostile environment so you got to be prudent with who you share what with yeah the next one is justice which is but doing on to those that you want to see doing onto you.

46:43.61
Tim Dwyer
So Whatever life is reflective So Whatever you put out. There is what you'll receive fortitude is about wishing good fortune for everyone so that removes any jealous genes that we might have in our bodies. So it's it's it's it's celebrating everyone else's success and wishing them good Fortune there. And life is abundant. It's not scarce. There is enough here for everyone. Um, and the last one is temperance which is don't shut people out and run cold and don't burn people because when we burn people that comes back to us and when we shut people out.

47:15.45
davidmcdermott
You see.

47:19.99
Tim Dwyer
Means we we find ourselves alone so when we when we live by our virtues. We create our own reality in value through letting go of our ego whilst being in care of ourselves first. So that we can be in service of others. We have the 5 rules of the game and we learn how to then navigate all the other elements of business which is how do I create a brand How do I product ecosystems how do I go to market. How do I build infrastructure for scale growth. All of those things become so so easy to create when our belief structure is actually solid.

48:02.78
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah, and what you're talking about I I use the language of the inner and outer work of leadership and this may be simplifying it a bit but what I hear is the first the the rules of the game are very much about the inner work.

48:19.60
Tim Dwyer
Yep.

48:19.40
davidmcdermott
And it's the most important and it's the place to start if you rush straight to the outer work and ignore the inner Work. It's going to create very likely a whole mess down the track that could have been avoided had you clarified the the inner aspect of the game or the yeah the inner work of Leadership. Before then moving to all the outer parts of of actually building the business in the in the world.

48:40.47
Tim Dwyer
Yeah, exactly Yeah so everything everything is sourced in belief to start off with then once you've dealt with belief then the culture and the capabilities then Grown. So So everything in business can be taken back to culture and capability. What I've done is I've built belief into the cultural element of business. Yeah, so that's where it sought the issues. The true issues are sourced now a lot of this stuff is the hidden issues so we've got Hidden assets and Hidden dangers in Business. So What I've done is I've mapped.

49:03.93
davidmcdermott
Ah.

49:09.76
davidmcdermott
Yep.

49:14.61
davidmcdermott
Yeah, yeah.

49:18.86
Tim Dwyer
All of the hidden dangers as well as where to find the Hidden assets. It's a game. It's like a treasure hunt.

49:28.73
davidmcdermott
And we're we're almost at time unfortunately Tim and we could really unpack this at much greater length but a final question on on ptolemy um, in terms of the practical way that. Business people can work with this is it is it like a you know 1 to 1 and group coaching sort of environment. You know where there's conversation and you know a kind of program that people go through you know I know whether it's highly structured. But what does it look like in terms of the journey.

50:00.89
Tim Dwyer
Um, so so to date. It's been very personalized and and I've put ah parts of the information through workshops excuse me, um, and parts of it with I've gone through other business platforms and I've put the.

50:01.57
davidmcdermott
You and.

50:17.50
Tim Dwyer
Parts of the information through that I haven't done anything with the complete map Yet. So My first first point is documenting it which I've written a book and the book's Called. It's a new game and it's all about how to navigate the mind heart and spirit. Business for life. So inside of that map is every aspect and element that you can think ah of in business and it's put in a way that you can see the source issues and how to solve them. Now? Um, um, wanting to do that as much as self-help as I can so a lot of this information's just going to be given in in in written format of then recording ah a presentation which will then be animated. Um, and then this is a journey for getting this all out there in one map now I'm the I'm not a guru. Um there. There is so many people that can come and contribute to this. Um I don't know all of the different elements and I can't go deep deep into all the other.

51:22.71
davidmcdermott
Who.

51:29.93
davidmcdermott
Yeah, yeah.

51:30.60
Tim Dwyer
So many people that have got so much capability in me. So the map has been designed to um, point people to where the experts are which is not me so there's experts in Beliefs There's experts in uncovering trauma. There's experts in brand.

51:41.70
davidmcdermott
Yep, yeah.

51:49.39
Tim Dwyer
Although I like Brand there's experts in productization which is my gig as well. But there's other experts around social media. There's experts around scale. There's experts around partnerships. So there's it's it's designed to go What do I want to work on and where can I go find an expert.

51:57.49
davidmcdermott
Perfect.

52:06.29
davidmcdermott
Perfect and for listeners who want to stay tuned and you know stay up to date with with how this project is developing. Is there a way that they can and know be informed and kept up to date.

52:19.91
Tim Dwyer
Yeah, yeah, they can. Um, um, I'm not active yet I do have a Facebook profile. So if you want to come and join us at Facebook there's there's not a lot going on in that just yet. Um I'll be activating that later if they want to come to ptolemy. They can go to ptolemy.com and you can see an overview of the mapping system. Again, it doesn't have a lot of depth of information that'll be coming out in the in the book as well as the project papers that attach to the book. So people be able to dive deep. So just reach out just ask to be put on the database and as we launch each element of it. They'll be able to um.

52:55.87
davidmcdermott
Um, cool.

52:59.29
Tim Dwyer
They'll get an invitation to to get gain access to all the information.

53:02.16
davidmcdermott
Well, that's great. Well Tim is there anything else as a final note on anything at all whether it's ptolemy or otherwise to finish today.

53:15.61
Tim Dwyer
No I Just thank you for having me. It's been fun having a chat. Um, and yeah, just for everyone out there. Life's not not meant to be difficult life is meant to be easy so to make it easy on yourself. Um, become the neutral observer live by the rules of the game and have a hell of a lot of fun.

53:37.68
davidmcdermott
Fantastic! Thanks so much Tim it's been really really interesting

53:42.34
Tim Dwyer
Cool. Thank you.