The Evolved Leadership Podcast

#40 Social Gaming, Ice Baths, & Franchising, with Troy Warfield, CEO of The Social Gaming Group & Chairman of Surf Lakes

• David McDermott

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My guest in this episode is Troy Warfield. Troy is the CEO of The Social Gaming Group, a gastro-gaming venue business, where he has led the company’s rapid global expansion. He is also the Chair of Surf Lakes, a global surf park business.

Troy's prior roles include President of Topgolf International, Executive Director of the Board at British Airways as well as BA's Brands & Customer Experience Director, and Chief Commercial Officer of Avis Budget Group where he led the international franchising of the business. 

Troy was also previously Managing Director of the UK and Ireland for Kimberly Clark, and has held senior roles at Unilever.

He is a very proud father of three children, and enjoys giving back to the community via many charitable roles through his career, coaching his son’s rugby, and being with friends.

Highlights of our conversation include franchise wins in the Middle East for The Social Gaming Group, the benefit of focusing on strategic cluster, dealing with the fact that the more senior you get the lonelier you get, and the leadership benefits of exercise, ice baths and meditation.

 

Enjoy the conversation 

 

To find out more about The Social Gaming Group go to: https://www.thesocialgaminggroup.com

 

You can reach out to Troy at troy@oche.com  

 

To learn more about what it takes to be an evolved leader, and to check out our other podcast episodes, go to:  https://www.evolvedstrategy.com.au

00:00.66
davidmcdermott
Hi guys welcome to the show I'm delighted to have on the show today Troy Warfield who is the chairman of surflake's a client of mine and also chief executive at the social gaming group owners of ockey where he's led the company's rapid global expansion Troy was appointed. And Ceo of the social gaming group in March Twenty Twenty one so a bit over 3 years in the role Troy has an extensive executive level background in sports media entertainment luxury consumer industries and travel and hospitality most recently. He was president at the sports and entertainment company top golf international where he was responsible for the rapid international expansion program outside of North America which involved building a strong global franchise footprint. Prior to top golf. He was an executive director of the board and brands and customer experience director at British Airways at Avis Budget Group he was chief commercial officer and he also led the international franchising of the business during his time at Kimberly Clark Troy was vice president of the european family care business. And was also managing director of Uk and Ireland he has also held senior roles at Unilever and is currently on the board of surfflakkes as I mentioned an australian surf park manufacturing company. He's a very proud father of 3 children and enjoys giving back to the community through many charitable roles.

01:31.00
davidmcdermott
Regarding his career coaching his son's rugby and being with friends Troy welcome to the show.

01:35.81
troy
Thanks David great pleasure to be here.

01:39.44
davidmcdermott
So we just heard the snapshot but can you give us your perspective on what's your leadership journey been so far. Whatever you'd like to share.

01:51.33
troy
No definitely. Ah I think and and thank you for reading that out. It's sort of a bit exhausting when you listen to your career flash back in 30 seconds but I think very early on I started out I'm i' australian I currently live in London and have.

01:55.85
davidmcdermott
Sort of.

02:07.21
troy
Have done. So for the last twenty years but my journey in Australia really started out going through I went cranbrook school in in Sydney which was a great formal education as well as a great network and moved it to doing a bachelor of commerce at union of New South Wales which which furthered that. And then went into the career by joining unionever and I think that's an excellent starting ground for any young executive and gave me really a one one on marketing and sales and then in the end general management and and also I think very early on. And be in Australia you you do feel a little bit isolated from the world. So ah that this idea of wanting to have an international career was somehow I don't know part of my Dna very early on in my yeah in my leadership and probably career aspiration. So I yeah.

03:04.97
troy
Very fortunately managed to go to the yeah uk and work there with Unilever and and then that moved on and through the course of that I I had in the back of my mind always wanted to be a general manager or managing director of the business and that opportunity came came by by moving to Kimberley Clark ah this time. Ah a large us consumer goods giant and I did that for a number of years and really on my leadership journey there that was the first time of having a business where I could wrap my sort of arm around 400 odd people and many thousands out in the yeah out in the factories. And and creating culture and creating a strategy and a vision and and it was really about taking a bunch of people and giving them ah a view of where we could be as an organization and very fortunately we we took that organization from being the sort of sixteenth ranked business in the Uk to number 1 according to all the Kimberley Clark and that was that's ah stunning in terms of yeah, the the feel and the culture of the business that can transform ah then at that point there was a bit of revolution going on internet was moving fast and.

04:02.96
davidmcdermott
Kimberly clog. Yeah.

04:21.24
troy
Ah, ecommerce was becoming such ah a vital part of people's businesses and consumer goods seemed a bit behind the the times and so moving to the service industry was a way of sort of touching that in customer and I did that by moving to being the chief commercial officer of Avis Budget Zipcar and also ran their their global franchising and and that was very much a big part of that was transforming the whole digital journey from search right through to how how customers interact with with the vehicles and and that was that was fascinating just in terms of. Ecommerce was 25% of the business and we grew that up to be about 40% of the business in the end so that that whole if you think about where digital ecommerce is now was a really early foundation of having a new toolset at my disposal.

05:15.72
davidmcdermott
M.

05:15.81
troy
In in terms of leadership and thinking away through new ways to solve old problems I guess is is probably the best way to put it that then took me on to working for British Airways so an evolution of the service industry experience and and British Airways really was about taking some of the experience i'd'd learnt at to avis and looked at the entire journey and and a big part of what I did there was to transform the the entire business class proposition for for British Airways

05:49.56
troy
Everything you think of from seats to food to to yeah the bedding to the in-flight entertainment and that was I had sixteen and a half thousand people working for me so that was a little bit of a test of my leadership. Ah and ah, but you know one of the. But like great joys I had there was the cabinn crew fourteen and a half thousand cabin crew reported in and and they really are the heart and soul of British Airways so working with them and and trying to bring that to to life was was both a challenge but an enjoyable one and then and then. Moved into this world called competitive socialising which is where I am today but that was with a company called topgolf and and that was moving out of big global established businesses that I've worked in before and this was now working in the world of private equity and startup to scale up.

06:28.10
davidmcdermott
Hey.

06:46.11
troy
Working for a Us business top golf. Um yeah marries up at a sort of a big driving range with technology with food and drink and music and so a real departure I think I went from ah a leadership role of sixteen and a half thousand people to a leadership role of 16 so It's about how do you How do you transform your your mind to that. But ah, the leadership challenge. There really is. It's all up to you. You know there's there's not this huge infrastructure around you. So if you're if you're going to get things done. It really is about waking up each morning and and having the drive to to make things created. Which was incredibly exhilarating and and we we managed to take the top golf business which was predominantly a us business to then be a truly global business across many geographies and that then walked me nicely into where you and I sit today where i'm. Ah, the Ceo of the social gaming group which is a and a norwegian company tech. We're ah a technology business in hospitality to to create shared happiness for our guests and we do that by. Automating the game of darts automating the game of shuffle board and then combining that with international sharing plates and cocktails and wines and beers and ah music so an evolution from top golf and and this is very much about taking something which when I I yeah joined it. We had 1.

08:20.61
troy
1 one venue in Oslo one venue in Brisbane now we have about to open our tenth venue in the world. So so ah yeah, and then I marry that with a ah real labor of love which is being on the board of surf flakes.

08:26.16
davidmcdermott
Fantastic.

08:33.87
davidmcdermott
2

08:38.61
troy
And that's that's about taking an australian technology and seeing seeing it really come to life around the world and I firmly believe it is the best technology in the surf park industry and I guess you can take that from. All the brands I've worked for probably the 1 thing that they've all got in common is they they're probably the best in their industry. Whatever they do and and I think surfakkes is is that I like to think that's what oey is as well. so um so I've been I've been.

09:05.75
davidmcdermott
Earth.

09:14.60
troy
Part art part science. Let's say David but but very blessed in terms of the career I've had being both in Australia and very very international by choice that probably leaves me to where I am today.

09:15.62
davidmcdermott
15

09:22.83
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

09:29.78
davidmcdermott
Well, it is a fascinating career path and you you started out as ah as an executive for major businesses and consumer goods, uity lever and Kimberly Clark and hi I guess ah car hire.

09:46.41
davidmcdermott
Fleet management I guess Avis British Airways obviously airline and now sports and entertainment with top golf surf leaks and the social gaming group which is very much I mean those 3 are very much about providing fun experiences for people which are pretty cool things to be involved with.

09:55.82
troy
A.

10:05.37
davidmcdermott
Um, so I mean and they're They're also more entrepreneurial where you know they're not major publicly listed companies yet. Um, although I'm not sure about top Golf. You can comment on that. Um, but yeah you you very much started out. And cutting your teeth in in senior roles for for major companies and then you've gravitated to smaller businesses but helping them to grow a scale with a vision of turning them into really big businesses and I know top golf is is quite a large business now. Um, and. I Made this observation to you before in a previous conversation. We had that it's I sense a certain amount of strategic or deliberate choice in decisions you've made in terms of how you want to spend your energy career wise. How how much of your journey has been deliberate versus things just came your way and you went for it.

10:57.32
troy
Yeah I think I think in many aspects of my life. You're sort of if you give yourself that lovely rare moment of sitting down and actually thinking ahead five or so years and saying 5 years time where would I like to be. And it's not It's not specific about I want this job that looks exactly it's it's more about what you're based on who I am now from a career perspective. How do I want to build my capabilities. How do I want to test my leadership and I think when you when you at least have a view of where you want to head. It's funny how all of a sudden probably subconsciously. You've got a filter in your head that you're filtering things in and out in conversations in where where it is and as a result of that I think I had a view. So if I go back to my you know, very early days I wanted an international experience with Unille will. In in those days that came about being very clear with Unilever I wanted international experience and there there weren't that many from Australia that we're getting that. But if at least if you're clear that that's what you want then you're half a chance of of making that happen obviously performance at all of those things are ah given um.

12:08.76
davidmcdermott
Um.

12:10.83
troy
So I think there's there's that aspect the the other aspect I think ah I've been also very conscious about this concept of bringing the outside in and it's It's very easy when you're in big companies to almost think that's the entire world but bringing the outside in is always being conscious of what's happening.

12:20.19
davidmcdermott
A.

12:30.42
troy
Outside in industry. What what are the trends and I think ah, where where that came about very much was I did an e-commerce course at London Business School and just seeing these people that were yeah back in those days. Yeah. The the the bricks and mortar businesses are dead. It's all it's all going to be online and and you sort of listen to that mosh. You've got to filter some of that rhetoric out what it did say is yeah, you need to get more involved with this and and that was really the deliberate shift out of consumer goods and inter-service. The service industry.

12:50.93
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

13:09.15
troy
So I think that that was ah that was a deliberate one that the big shift out of big large global corporates into the more entrepreneurial I think probably I had an innate entrepreneurial spirit I think that came from um, my my father who was a real entrepreneur. Um.

13:25.60
davidmcdermott
Right.

13:28.59
troy
In owning pubs owning a number of different businesses owning resources I I think I'm I've got an innate in entrepreneurial spirit but probably in the balance of all of that a more cautious entrepreneur. So once I once I had the opportunity to hear about the growth.

13:33.79
davidmcdermott
Um, group.

13:47.17
troy
Plan of places like top golf of the social gaming group and of surfflakes. It's so energetic and compelling to sort of jump out of business that every year are growing 2 or three percent the growing businesses that could be yeah, doubling their business in in twelve months

13:53.68
davidmcdermott
This yeah.

14:02.90
davidmcdermott
Yes, that makes sense. Um and we will definitely talk about the the fun side of business in terms of businesses that are about helping people to have fun. But when you talked about British Airways ah a memory popped up for me and.

14:13.70
troy
Um, and e.

14:21.87
davidmcdermott
And for those who've read Richard Branson's losing my virginity I wondered if you were around at British Airways at the time when there were there were some major conflicts going on between British Airways and virgin where I know that I think it was the Ceo of British Airways and and Richard Branson they just had a um. Ah, real loggerheads battle with each other and there were you know a lot of sneaky tactics including trying to solicit you know change of I know British Airways staff at least how Richard Branson describes it from his perspective out there on the floor trying to offer. Virgin customers better deals and stealing business but were you around at that time or did you have any perspective on that.

15:02.43
troy
I wasn't around at the time but it was hard not to see if you lived in the Uk it was almost frontline headlines in terms of some of the and some of the marketing tactics are both and have been have been brilliant I remember um.

15:08.85
davidmcdermott
E.

15:20.66
troy
When when the London eye if you know what the London eye is massive massive sort of wheel which is now a great tourist attraction. Well that was British Airways when it first started and it was actually laying in the thames and to get that structure up was an enormous engineering feat. Well of course Branson had a field day with it and was in the front page.

15:21.69
davidmcdermott
Yes.

15:34.51
davidmcdermott
Wow.

15:40.32
troy
1 of the papers saying yeah british airways can't get it up so classic ranson type classic bras and typerilla marketing. But no wait that was that was before my time by the time I got into British Airways the the competition had really shifted and mainly to the Middle East

15:42.80
davidmcdermott
Her is should.

15:57.56
davidmcdermott
Um, right.

15:58.80
troy
And partly the us and so hence the yeah yeah, the strategic analysis that I did at b a was really the the business class was was a critical part of the proposition. But if you had a look at every aspect of business class. It was going backward versus the likes of um. emirates ettihad qatar and and even to a degree the the resurgence of some of the us airlines so that that was about looking at every aspect and and and then yeah going back to the concept of looking at the outside and yeah, bring it in. Ah, if you look at who's the best in the world at catering. It's not necessarily an airline caterer. That's the best in the world of catering. So if you look outside there are companies like doenko who do the paddock club for it used to be for bernie echolson formula one and and still do. If you look at the catering that they do um then they have to be the people you want to bring in if you want to be the best in the world of catering and we did we brought do and co in they do british airways. In fact, right up until today and um, doing things like if you want to improve betting. You don't go to an airline betting provider. In the yeah uk one of the best was the white company so we brought the white company into british airways

17:20.21
davidmcdermott
That right? Yes, so you you missed that time in terms of your involvement there and the market had changed more more coming from the Middle East and that's a great story about the London eye and Richard Branson's clever marketing. What about um. The the social gaming group. So jumping forward to what sounds like it's your main energy focus now and I know there there are conversations in the Middle East I think our franchise agreements signed but why don't you tell us? What's what's the current status of the social gaming group and. Um, how do you see that business rolling out over the next 3 to 5 years

18:02.21
troy
Yeah, look I've been delighted since ah since joining the social gaming group and the brand that that people would recognize within that is a brand called Ockie which which is the line that you throw a dart from in a game of darts. Um.

18:16.21
davidmcdermott
Ah.

18:17.10
troy
So yes, we had Oslo which is our and which is the home city based yeah to norwegian business. It's backed by a company called carbon invest one of a very large norwegian tech investor and they've been incredibly supportive in terms of the growth story that that we are are at today. Um, moved to Brisbane and so from with my australian head on that was a delightful to joint a business that was already present in my in my home country and then from there we we really started to expand mainly around Scandinavia with Amsterdam and gotten booth. But.

18:44.85
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

18:53.96
troy
But after that really the strategy was start to put ockeys in places where we we could think about the future in terms of franchising and really growing by franchising so that that then led to opening up ockey London in the Strand. Ah. And then oki Singapore oki Melbourne and we've just recently opened Noki and Dubai right? Opposite Dubai mall and we will be very soon opening up oki and Rekjavik in Iceland so.

19:16.58
davidmcdermott
Oh.

19:23.67
davidmcdermott
Show.

19:26.56
troy
We've we've gone from yeah, very local business soie in Oslo to now having a truly global footprint and that will enable us and and is starting to enable us in terms of growing our footprint and oki Dubai is a great example of that with our partnership with ramel hospitality. Who were ah one of one of the Uae's best hospitality partners and and if you there's a brand called Wagamama which very big and in ah in the U K and they my mama is number 1 franchise partner across that across the globe.

19:54.47
davidmcdermott
Oh yes, I'm away. Yeah.

20:05.40
davidmcdermott
So um, in terms of the social gaming group as a franchise is it a franchise like top golf or is it a little bit different how it's structured.

20:13.65
troy
Ah, no, it's it's very similar so both both top golf and and ockey we we look for partners that have got good track record. They'll have capital. They'll have good expertise in. Probably hospitality within their given country and the ability to and ideally they'll have operational capabilities to be able to to run it because yeah if you look at a top golf that could be up to 4 to 500 people that need to run that it's a big big facility.

20:29.92
davidmcdermott
The.

20:44.31
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah.

20:46.70
troy
So that's that's ah, bigger than most small companies. So yeah, being able to work out the logistics of running a hospitality entertainment concept of that size is really is a really critical element and ah.

21:02.90
troy
Both with top golf and and now more recently with lucky I'm ah so delighted with all the people that we we brought on board and from a top golf perspective many of those people still yeah, very ah, very Friendly. We've still got great relationships and and very friendly parts of my yeah. My career relationships.

21:28.94
davidmcdermott
A Detroit.

21:35.58
troy
Hello.

21:44.80
davidmcdermott
You you frozen Troy so I'm not sure if you can hear me I'll just wait until you come back on.

23:06.39
troy
Um.

23:41.57
davidmcdermott
Um, ah.

29:32.99
davidmcdermott
Ah, ah success I just stayed in so I thought you'd eventually come back in.

29:36.53
troy
Um, hello No idea what happened there.

29:45.17
troy
Um, yeah I I was sitting there and it said if you if you log out. It won't save changes so I thought oh God so.

29:50.38
davidmcdermott
Ah, yeah, it's It's a it's a tricky one when when that happens but it's all good. It'll definitely save what we've talked about so far because I didn't I didn't log out and so yeah.

30:01.82
troy
Okay, perfect what where do where do where do we get to we I I was getting because things were happening I was getting a bit lost.

30:05.86
davidmcdermott
Well yeah, yeah, so I was hearing you clearly and then it just suddenly froze but you were talking about the social gaming group and you got you got up to I asked what? what's the next 3 to 5 years look like from your perspective. So why don't we just start with that one again.

30:24.78
troy
Um, yeah, obviously of.

30:25.60
davidmcdermott
And then we might move on to more individual leadership questions and and wrap it up in about 15 minutes all right? So I'll just do a little clap and then we'll get. We'll get it back into that question so Troy the social gaming group.

30:34.76
troy
Um, yeah, no problem.

30:45.70
davidmcdermott
Um, is it a fascinating business again, you know in in the sports and entertainment industries or I don't know if you'd classify it as sports I guess darts darts are sports so yes, sports and entertainment like surf lakes like top golf and how do you see that business. Ah, rolling out over the next three to five years say

31:07.83
troy
Yeah I think I think we'll take the foundation of where we are which we've now got a clearly global footprint with with with our tenth one being built in in iceland an opening up in may so I think from there that's a great foundation for us to now. And build and and grow a number of the partners that we've signed on will have a natural program of growth so that that will give us exactly as we thought from a strategic perspective is bringing partners on board that can focus on their geographies. They they can open faster and quicker than we could.

31:40.37
davidmcdermott
Are.

31:44.94
troy
Individually from ah from a global perspective. So a lot of a lot of the growth that we will be doing will be centered around building our geographies where we've already signed partners and then the other will be continuing to to grow across the the many other aspects. So um. Come 3 to 5 years time. We'd we'd like to think we could have signed up 100 ockeys around the world and and know that we've got ah a very good legacy and and footprint for people that want to have a great game of darts. Enjoy some nice international sharing plates and drink drinks and.

32:07.53
davidmcdermott
Oh.

32:23.87
troy
Beers and wines and cocktails and they've got a place to go.

32:25.10
davidmcdermott
It's really really cool I still have to get up to the brisbane one I know you've encouraged me based on the Gold coast but I I will most certainly get up there and I'm looking forward to trying it out and with franchising I mean when. And when you go down the franchise path as the franchisor increasingly as ah as the business expands your role becomes very much supporting the franchisees as opposed to the core business of you know, finding the venues delivering the service doing the sales and marketing. How are you finding? you're spending your energy is it more. Franchisee support signing on franchisees or are you sort of spread across a few things.

33:05.48
troy
Yeah, very much very much about finding new Partners. So Now we've got proof points out there. It's it's about a discussion with the right type of partners and and bringing them on Board. And you're right I Think the the role there becomes in in a way, a sort of educated consultant in terms of we've got a helicopter view of both our own venues but also our franchise partners venues.

33:26.84
davidmcdermott
Earth.

33:38.46
troy
And we can. We can see what works What doesn't work and and you know our job as a franchisor is to help our franchisees make as much money as they can from our brand So thinking about that thinking about different ways to solve old problems and and then creating a community where we can share that learning.

33:43.22
davidmcdermott
And.

33:56.95
troy
Is very much a part of it and I think I think I learnt that back in my a dayss when I took on responsibility for global franchising. We had 150 different partners around the world and and like with everything trying to. Trying to work out. How do you deal with 150 different partners. Well we what I did did there was sort of put them into strategic clusters and about 8 to 10 of those 150 were enormous businesses like osh in turkey.

34:21.70
davidmcdermott
Ah.

34:30.60
davidmcdermott
Who well.

34:31.87
troy
They represent 10% of Turkish gdp. Well you're mad not to leverage that sort of strength and and that sort of Capability. So It was then about for those 8 to 10? How do you almost form them in a way to become ah almost partners similar to how you would. Work with your own corporate stores and corporate venues and and that became a very rich way of of thinking about and then as we co-developed with them then we could bring that and pass that on to other franchisees knowing that we're already listening and understanding I would see in time that that evolution in terms of what we do with.

35:08.92
davidmcdermott
Earth.

35:11.65
troy
With the Yockey partners will definitely become something something in terms of bringing it to life.

35:13.69
davidmcdermott
And could it include those strategic clusters that you experienced at Avis over time with ockie could it be that that sort of sizable as a business.

35:25.16
troy
Yeah, definitely yeah, definitely that that will take a little little time. Um, but I think you can already see the shape now when when you look at partners like ramal hospitality in in the Uae. Yeah they've got. Fantastic franchising experience. Great hospitality experience and already in our interactions. They're already starting to come up with innovative new ways to grow the brand. So. It's about how do you make that a more 2 wo-way interaction rather than franchisor hands over pack of how it's done franchisee. Executes.

35:43.52
davidmcdermott
Um, in.

35:58.71
davidmcdermott
Um.

36:00.58
troy
My my experience is it's far richer once that interaction becomes a bit more fluid and and because they are ah now the eyes and ears of our customers in the Ua they will be the best ones to feed back What you know what are the ways that we can improve our brand.

36:18.90
davidmcdermott
Yes, and moving more to an individual focus now on you as a leader. Um, whether it's ah you know whether ah someone's a business owner or you know a seasoned executive or both as in your case I.

36:18.56
troy
Particularly for the Middle East customers

36:33.29
davidmcdermott
My observation has been usually people in senior leadership roles particularly with global businesses. They enjoy global business. They find it stimulating. Um, it's it's it's fun that of course there are challenges as well and stresses and strains. But what's your. Whether it's one or a number of peak experiences or peak experience in what you do now.

36:50.88
troy
Um, you can um.

36:56.36
troy
Yeah, so I I think at the heart of it. It's going to sound Cliche but it it is absolutely and absolutely the truth from my perspective is it is about people and and I do love the international nature of business and I had that from an early age. And and also yeah, being sort of ah you know my my mother and father probably if you looked at both of what they did what they were both very good at was their interaction with people and empathy with people and understanding and I think yeah I've picked that up and um.

37:33.76
troy
What what? I've found from that therefore is as as I think about international business really being able to first of all understand the culture that you're dealing with and then within that understanding the people within the culture and then and then. Thinking about the business problem that you may have seen before and making sure you don't obviously just fall into the trap of thinking it worked over there. So. It's naturally got to work here. So it's that that subtle art then of working with a different culture different people. But then also thinking about.

37:56.87
davidmcdermott
Yeah, thanks.

38:09.31
troy
Ah, similar business problem. But through the lens of those 2 areas to try and come up with the right solution so that that I think just adds ah in in some ways. Ah add to a bit of complexity to what you've got to do. But I think from a mental stimulation perspective far more interesting. They're just.

38:28.88
davidmcdermott
Yes, and just as I mean it's not a cliche at all. Your first response was in terms of your peak experience is people and people in the context of global business and when you set out with a really interesting mission. You attract some really cool people.

38:29.34
troy
Repeating the same things in the same geographies with the same sort of people.

38:48.14
davidmcdermott
And that's been a theme on the evolved leadership podcast one of the stories I um I like to share is will davies who founded Carr next door a former attendee at our Luca leadership programs many years ago and reflected on how we wanted to uplift humanity which was a question we used to ask at the time. And he sold his share in his mortgage brokerage in Bondi East Side Home loans to his business partner and ah tried a few different things but settled on peer-to-peer car sharing and with a a mission of reducing environmental emissions. So but making it possible for people who didn't own a car to use a car when they wanted and not need to you know, have.

39:18.86
troy
Um, money.

39:26.41
davidmcdermott
Have more cars manufactured and more cars on the road If if they weren't actually being utilized and he he sold the business to uber two years ago now for a good son and it's now uber car sharere and I know and he's now moving on to other things. So um, yes, really. And and they have attracted amazing people. He had high retention rates because of the mission of the organization. What about that indicator just from your perspective whether you want to comment on on ockie social gaming group or or surfla or or other in terms of retention rates with regards to a ah fun. Slash Exciting mission.

40:07.46
troy
Yeah I think I think yeah similar to what will did in terms of our vision we're we're a technology business in hospitality to create shared happiness and the shared happiness is not only for our guests. It's also for our employees and for our stakeholders. And yeah, how you define that I think is is really important so when when you're talking to people to bring them into a business like ours. You've you've got to think about there's there's many aspects. But yeah, it's interesting bringing someone into a business that's only got 1 or 2 venues if they're being part of a big business. On the promise that we're going to grow and yeah, the future here is where the future is so it does take a certain sort of person to want to sign on to the journey and then and then the the whole role is is to sort of keep them within that journey so that's I think that's a fascinating part of.

40:51.78
davidmcdermott
And.

41:04.90
troy
Ah, part of business I think on the other other part I've been I've been blessed through the years all through all through the many companies that I've worked for and I've I've either worked for some really inspiring leaders that have clearly developed me through the years or I've been fortunate to work with some really really intelligent and capable people who I saw at a very early stage of their career and you know some of them. Ah a good lady who is now the the chief operating officer of son Tory beverages.

41:38.75
davidmcdermott
2

41:43.80
troy
And she's she's going on to bigger and greater things there and that's that's someone who I sort of was ah a manager role early in her career and now play a sort of a loose mentoring role with but you know it's that that aspect now I get a lot of energy from where where you can continue relationships.

41:51.00
davidmcdermott
Yes.

42:01.65
troy
That you've had for years and years from a career perspective see them flourish it but continue to sort of have that that to that sort of relationship that you can help in any way you can't.

42:13.28
davidmcdermott
So where we're starting to get towards time Troy and I also want to ask you in addition to the peak experiences that you commented on. No one has a perfect run in their career whether they're an entrepreneur or senior Exec or both. Um. What what are some of the toughest times darkest times you know the times where you you really weren't in a great place either personally or business-wise or both often. They you know they they come hand-in-hand that um, that you'd be happy to share with us now is some of the realities of of business leadership and ah. At a high level.

42:51.81
troy
Yeah I think so probably the more senior you you get probably the lonelier you get which which is you know I and I think when you when you get to that point when the buck stops here.

42:55.37
davidmcdermott
A.

43:07.73
troy
Yeah, know you've you've got to you got to think through how am I going to approach things I think from that. Um what I've probably learned over time is sort of bringing more people into that sort of decision-making set. Um, yeah, and and in that it helps it helps you really. Being able to sort of throw ideas around and then get some clarity for yourself. So I think that's sort of been a safety valve that that I've I've often used and I think the the other aspects are um.

43:30.81
davidmcdermott
Ah.

43:43.10
troy
Yeah, no, no matter how tough it gets um, being able to sort of take a step away getting some context and then and then then having the confidence then to put a new plan in place. Yeah, when the current plan just isn't working being able to to take it.

43:55.17
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

44:02.49
troy
Ah, step away and and probably the best way I've done that is that bringing the outside in um and and and so looking at different industries and bringing in parallel experiences is enabled sometimes to to resolve issues that within the industry you're in don't seem able to be resolved.

44:09.23
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

44:22.27
troy
But by doing that it really really has made a difference.

44:23.38
davidmcdermott
Yes, and it's a great tip at second Road. We used to use exactly that the parallel Worlds Framework um to help not just businesses but also large government departments at times and tackle a Wicked Problem. And Wicked problem being a problem that doesn't have actually ah a particular solution but it it needs the tools of conversation and and dialogue to arrive at a best way forward of the appropriate options. Um, yeah that that space is very much I think in the. And the territory that you're talking about.

45:04.50
troy
Yeah, and I also think from ah sort of an outside work perspective having some balance. Yeah, other interests of which yeah my my kids are now sort of high teenage years and into their twenty. So but yeah, the kids are a fantastic.

45:06.12
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

45:22.18
troy
I have been fantastic in terms of yeah, seeing their development being part of their lives but the other yeah, the other aspect is then from a very personal perspective and I know myself keeping physically fit and strong. Um, you know that sort of.

45:33.12
davidmcdermott
Oh.

45:40.00
troy
Ah, keeping physically strong helps keep mentally strong. And yeah, the times when when business gets really tough and stress can often take you away from that you sort of you don't even have the energy to do the things that you know are really important and.

45:42.24
davidmcdermott
Yep.

45:49.90
davidmcdermott
Move move.

45:57.99
troy
what I've what I've known through the years is you know, keep doing keep getting in the gym keep doing the weight keep feeling physically strong and it really does have a ah sort of correlation.

46:00.12
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

46:06.46
davidmcdermott
So we have to talk about a little bit this ah this a little bit to finish because it's such ah, an interesting topic and I love that you've been very clear that something something that helps you and has helped you in the past is focusing on your fitness and being physically strong in whatever way. Um, you'd you'd like to do so the gym or whatever often I find with my executive clients. They do have a discipline when they're when they're in senior roles. They do have some kind of discipline with regards to personal fitness and um as well as the I mean because. Personal fitness it sort of blends a bit with the inner and outer work of leadership but you could argue part of me. It's more out of focus the physical side but then there's the inner side and that world opens up meditation mindfulness awareness emotional intelligence and. Ah, whole host of other topics which are probably beyond the scope of what we're going to talk about today but I'd love just to hear your thoughts because the physical side is is super important and I totally agree with you and I apply the same in my own practice keeping your body as fit and strong as possible is a great. Way to be able to deal with stress without letting it overwhelm you and being able to have those good chemicals that activate the endorphins, the oxytocin all of those things that strong physical exercise stimulates and over over the last year been exploring ice baths.

47:40.96
davidmcdermott
And have got it down now to about sitting in it in the bath for 10 minutes at ° and it can yeah can certainly get a lot colder than that. But that's what I've you know a year bumped it down to but I find it really extraordinary actually the the effect.

47:44.21
troy
Um, if.

47:58.67
davidmcdermott
You know if I'm stressed about this or that I just go and jump in the ice bath for 10 minutes at ° and it really helps. That's just a fact I think he takes it to a totally another level. Yeah, one of my one of my goals is to do one of his courses in person I've had clients who've gone.

48:07.16
troy
Um, I'll have to call you David Hoff from now on.

48:18.59
davidmcdermott
And attended in-person sessions with Wim Hof and apparently it's pretty extraordinary and he he has an amazing story which for those who don't know I actually only discovered this recently? um you you may may not be aware Troy but he actually lost his wife and he was so devastated. Um, nothing. He tried took the pain away and he and he was just in a really bad place and he found the only place where he had a bit of relief was taking his body down the cored temperature down really really low through his ice bath techniques which you know he he then. Um, grew a following to where he is today but that was his pivotal sort of stimulus a really tragic event and he now offers a massive service to so many people who get benefit from his techniques and and ah. Ah, certain path of stress reduction. It's pretty cool.

49:16.77
troy
Yeah, definitely definitely I think I think that there are lots of different ways I think that the the art has really find out what works for you and yeah for for me.

49:25.47
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

49:32.82
troy
Ah, back to your discipline for me. It's doing waits 3 to four days a week and then and then each day yeah, having having ah a dog is wonderful and so it gives you a very yeah deliberate thing to do your 10000 steps but knowing you're doing something great for your dog. But also yeah, there's a.

49:32.91
davidmcdermott
A.

49:40.20
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

49:52.79
troy
Great correlation for what you're doing for yourself. So yeah, these these are simple things but from a mental perspective. Yeah that that works for me and I know I got a good friend that's go to plunge pool and he swears by it every morning goes out into his into his ice plunge pool and.

50:08.43
davidmcdermott
Um, yes.

50:11.91
troy
And and that's that's his way to kick off the day.

50:13.40
davidmcdermott
And I totally agree with you. You've got to find what works for you. Ice bars are not for everyone. My wife doesn't want to go near one. She's just not at all suited to the the cold as being a way to to destress. Um, what one last question which I'd love to ask? what What's your perspective on um the interdisciplines of what you might call meditation or mindfulness or awareness some of those things which Daniel Goldman very briefly hints at in his articles on the 5 domains of emotional intelligence like self-awareness self-regulation more the um. The inner disciplines of um, you know which is the harder work of how you're responding to your own thoughts and feelings and how you're expressing that with those around you.

51:05.21
troy
Yeah, ah look I um I think once again I think it's another another tool that people can use and I know many people that ah it's ah it's an essential part of of their makeup now in terms of how they do I met my brother. Um, is is a very very big advocate of of meditation and and sees it as ah as a wonderful way of of dealing with dealing with the stresses of everyday life. It's it's not something that I've actively done myself. Um, maybe because I know what works for me at the moment. But um I have I have done the ice baths myself and and various other things. But um I think the ability to.

51:41.20
davidmcdermott
O.

51:56.17
troy
Probably what I do my form of meditation is walking a do for ten kilometres. Yeah, and in doing like I'm sort of distance away from things I'm I'm sort of in my own world thinking through things and I solve many problems on that walk I know for others, it's about totally cutting off the world for a while.

51:56.29
davidmcdermott
Yeah.

52:09.74
davidmcdermott
Earth m.

52:13.86
troy
Getting nearer and a breathing going and and and getting and getting meditation. So um I I would say if if it's if it's a powerful tool for people then absolutely use it.

52:22.85
davidmcdermott
And what you've just described to me is absolutely meditation. It's just dynamic meditation rather than static meditation where you more sit down and close your eyes and I've I've found over the years I often prefer the the walking meditation as well. Which is. And meditation's a funny word. It's um, can attract a lot of judgments and perspectives but everyone has to find what what it means to them but to me it's just really being being centered in yourself and being able to reconnect with the freshness of the present moment and what. But better way to do that than go for a nice walk in nature.

53:04.41
troy
Yeah, and've I've got some gorgeous places around here to walk and particularly if you've just been. You know those mornings where you wake up and you the first thing. Ah.

53:10.80
davidmcdermott
And.

53:16.39
troy
After you've you've had a coffee or something you look at your emails and whatsapps and you've got about 7 different problems that have hit you before eight thirty and you say right? and and on some of those mornings boom the dog gets an early walk and off we go and yeah, it's amazing. How by the end of it. You can.

53:18.76
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah, yes.

53:25.74
davidmcdermott
Yeah, yeah.

53:34.96
troy
Start to put things in context. Yeah, start to have a bit of a plan so that you know you're not just knee-jerk reacting to things you know that's sort of you know Whatsapp reaction or email reaction that you can get into a bad habit of.

53:47.74
davidmcdermott
Totally and when when you described walking your dog I instantly had the image of Abraham Lincoln and there's a famous story where presidents would often stay in the white house with their families. Um, and he at those times it was recorded that sometimes. Like his schedule was so packed people would climb through the windows to try and get an audience with him because they were being shut out at the at the gate and he refused to stay in the white house with his family There was ah I think it was called the white cottage or something and it was a 2 hour horse right away and every day.

54:13.61
troy
Um.

54:22.16
davidmcdermott
He rode his horse for 2 hours there and back and that's where he got his time to chill just just like you've described walking your dog and just sort out. Let let his subconscious sort out the biggest issues of what he was doing with ah the country of America at the time. Um, really really interesting that. Ah. Deliberate choice that leaders make just to let their subconscious give themselves a space where their subconscious can bubble over and decisions be made without having to do much thinking about them.

54:57.31
troy
Yeah, his horse ride might have had to deal with a few more issues of bigger consequence. But maybe from now on I'll walk with my dog with a not black top hat on so I can get into this near the and the zone exactly. Ah.

55:01.85
davidmcdermott
Ah, ah, that would be great and England is the right place to do it.

55:14.92
troy
It usually comes out around ascot time. But I might have to bring it over here.

55:15.00
davidmcdermott
Oh yes, yes, well Troy thank you so much for your time. It's been thoroughly fascinating looking at more the strategic side ah earlier in our conversation of the businesses you've been involved with and are now and then more an individual leadership focus and we haven't. Don't think we've had a detailed conversation with a guest so far about that more practical. How do you manage your stress I think we've talked about it briefly here and there but that was really cool to dive deeper into that and the disciplines associated with it.

55:51.26
troy
You're welcome and and thank you very much for the time and hope I pass the audition.

55:55.15
davidmcdermott
Ah, you certainly did now for listeners I mean there are no doubt people who may have a personal interest in reaching out to you regarding Ockie the social gaming group or or other matters. You know whether they're possibly interested in franchising or who knows but. If someone's interested in touching base with you. What's what's the best way for them to get in touch.

56:17.98
troy
The easiest way would be TroyTROY at ockie.comockey spell o c h e

56:21.21
davidmcdermott
Cool I will put that in the show notes. Thanks very much Troy it's been a real pleasure.

56:33.60
troy
No problem David have a great day.