#42 Come Down From Your Ivory Tower, with Karen Dare, CEO of Communify

My guest in this episode is Karen Dare. Karen is the CEO of Communify, a not-for-profit dedicated to meeting a range of needs in the community, including child safety, housing, mental health, family support, emergency relief and refugee support. 

Karen has over 30 years of experience working within the community sector, and has been with Communify since 1994. She has seen the organisation grow from a small neighbourhood centre with limited resources to the thriving multi-service hub that it is today. 

Karen also works broadly in the community and has sat on the boards of several prominent community organisations and other representative committees including 4Walls Housing Company,  Suncorp Stadium Advisory Committee and Building Services Authority.

Karen is a recipient of the 2001 Centenary Medal and the Brisbane Australia Day Award for her contribution to the community sector.

Highlights of our conversation include a pattern in the sector of everyone wanting their own charity, the power of not-for-profit team members moving on into influential government roles, how Communify develops their leaders, the importance of coming down from your ivory tower as a leader, and Karen sharing the internal contract she has with herself.  

Enjoy the conversation 

To find out more about Communify, go to: https://communify.org.au/

 You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-dare-99b3b44b/

To learn more about what it takes to be an evolved leader, and to check out our other podcast episodes, go to:  https://www.evolvedstrategy.com.au/podcast

Chapters

• 11:00 Different not-for-profit models
• 16:35 Everyone wants their own charity
• 20:50 How Communify develops their leaders
• 32:41 Come down from your ivory tower
• 34:00 Have you got an internal contract with yourself?

Transcript

00:00.99
davidmcdermott
Hi guys welcome to the show. My guest today is Karen Dare Karen is the Ceo of communify. She has a social sciences background and over thirty years of experience working within the community sector. Karen has worked with communify 9094 and has seen the organization grow from a small neighbourhood center with limited resources to the thriving multi-service hub that it is today always with a community development focus. Karen Works alongside the communify management team to develop services and programs that will support people living in the inner city communities of Brisbane karen also works broadly in the community and has sat on the boards of several prominent community organisations. And other representative committees including 4 walls housing company sunkorp stadium advisory committee and building services authority karen has a strong interest in supporting and developing responsive services within the housing mental health family support emergency relief and refugee support areas. And she's also the recipient of the 2001 centenary medal and the brisbane australia day award for her contribution to the community sector karen welcome to the show tell us about your leadership journey so far.

01:17.50
Karen Dare
Um, thank you David lovely to be here.

01:25.33
Karen Dare
Okay, so in my early years. Um I ah managed a youth service so I was a very young leader in a very small service and a great way to cut your teeth. You do everything from the accounts to submissions to the acquittals. And running the programs. So um I did that for the first 8 to 10 years of my career and then um obviously moved up here to Brisbane that was in Adelaide moved up here to Brisbane um, applied for the job at the local neighbourhood centre. Um, as the community development worker and I've been there ever since. So. Sort of moved through I think you know even in my leadership now I feel like I'm ah um, you know I just have a ah greater role as the Cd worker. Um, but yes work and doing community development. So the programs that have come on board have been through. You know. Needs analysis in our community and hearing the voice of the people that come through our services so where we started with two part-time workers um in a neighborhood center. We now have 230 staff? Um, but twenty odd standalone services. Um, a big corporate team. A fantastic leadership team. Um and lots of um partners. We're very big on partnering in our you know, um in our sector so that we we don't think we can do it all on our own so communifise a big leader in that sort of consortia and partnership. Um area. So.

02:55.60
davidmcdermott
Well, we'll hear more about that shortly. But how so when did your journey at communify begin Karen.

02:55.63
Karen Dare
Yeah.

03:03.18
Karen Dare
So in 1984 sounds like ah um, and yes, ah I um one as their Cd worker I think I got my application in 1 minute before it was meant to close so it was sort of meant to be so I I was the Cd worker for a number of years and then moved as we got larger.

03:05.63
davidmcdermott
Are.

03:20.17
Karen Dare
Sort of had a flat leadership structure and then it came to the point where um, it needed some leadership so I became the general manager and then sat in that role for about 5 years and I've been the Ceo for about 10 to 15 now. So and I'm sort of at the um you know I'm not.

03:34.43
davidmcdermott
Hi ji.

03:39.97
Karen Dare
Right to say I'm 65 um and I'm looking at you know, um, the future in terms of retirement and and what I might do then but I've got a few things um on the boil that need to to be completed before I I pass the baton.

03:55.86
davidmcdermott
All right? Well maybe we might hear about some of those later. Whatever you'd like to share What do you most love about communify.

04:02.99
Karen Dare
Um.

04:07.72
Karen Dare
Look I think um, it's It's a not-for- Profit. It's run by a community-based board a skillsbased Board. We're not affiliated with any um church or political party. Um, so we're very we can we stand Alone. Have a very strong focus on Effvocacy and influence and because we don't We're not affiliated with a larger entity that would be afraid of that it gives us the capacity to um to do some very important pioneering work. We have a board that. Is not risk Adverse. So I think sometimes in those larger orgs you know risk umcure you know stops a lot of the kind of work that we do we work in very um, edgy. Um and and sometimes volatile situations. Ah. I think I Love the the people that want to work for us are those people that really roll up their sleeves and get in and do the job. Um, nobody's precious. Um, we've got a group of young leaders that are just Amazing. Um. You know they've come up through the ranks and as as I have and um, you know have been frontline workers and are now really great managers and I think that's one of the things that communify does. Well we really foster um, development of our teams and.

05:36.11
Karen Dare
Develop young leaders and we've had lots of young leaders. Go off and become ceos and general managers of other organisations. So that's exciting to be able to do that. So I think the fact that we're not affiliated. Gives us an opportunity to really do some very important work.

05:54.55
davidmcdermott
And for listeners who are not familiar with that term in the Not-for-profit Sector Can you explain a little more about what being affiliated or not affiliated means.

05:55.52
Karen Dare
So.

06:06.19
Karen Dare
So it means that we're um, we're not bound by the rules of a larger organization. So if I worked for a large church organization. There would be a governing body that tells me what I can and can't do um. Particularly around advocacy and influence which unify we we go ride out on a limb. Um and advocate for some of the most marginalized people people like asylum seekers. So we we run a consortia supporting asylum seekers. Um, and that wouldn't have happened if we had. Been in a larger org. Um you know, ah we did a lot of very strong advocacy and we're very proud that um, we've got 7 partners that all joined together and we led that so that they could stand behind us. Um, because some of them receive funding from.

06:59.80
Karen Dare
The federal government in the terms of settlements. So um, yeah, it just gives us that capacity to do sort of groundbreaking work without the constraints of an overarching governing body.

07:13.63
davidmcdermott
All right? Well,, there's a couple of things you've said there that I want to explore more but can you just? um, in terms of giving listeners. Ah a better sense of exactly what communified does just share like what are the primary ways that it interacts with the community. Are there workers out there on the front line. You know, working with Asylum seekers and and other groups like what? what are the main things that you guys do.

07:36.80
Karen Dare
So um, just to give you like a bit of background one of the things that we dreamed about when I first started at communifying was being a 1 ne-stop shop so in our sector the way that funding often rolls out is that you go over here for homelessness. And over to this organization for drug and alcohol and over here for mental health. But when clients come in and they might come in um, seeking housing they might come in for emergency relief. They might come in um, experience Mental Health mental health challenges and there's always. Um, a range of difficulties and challenges that they're experiencing so we've been able to over the years build a suite of services that we can wrap around people fairly quickly. So someone might come in. Um, who's experiencing homelessness. They may have ah the underlying cause of that might be addiction. They have no money they have no phone and so what we are able to do the intake team at our heart 4000 homeless ah service will obviously get them housed pretty quickly whether that's an emergency accommodation or other and then we'll start to rop those services around people so we have a ah day we ran the. First dual diagnosis day rehab service. Um, so they might go into our springboard program. They might then come onto our mental health service. Our emergency relief service will make sure that there's food on the table. Um, they might come in in with a spur debt.

09:05.66
Karen Dare
So if they're involved in some of our programs they can work off their spur debt. So the idea is that we really can wrap um, fairly quickly services around people who are most vulnerable so we do everything from cradle to grave so we have our own chalkre centre. Run the intensive family program we have the complete suite of aged care services and a lot of our and a number of our aged care clients are highly vulnerable. They've um, lived challenging lives and and have got significant health issues. We run the homelessness. Service 1 of the homeless services here in Greater Brisbane we run sustaining tenancy ndis we run community hubs I have to read them because we've got so many um neighborhood centers are at the heart of what we do. Um, we we provide emergency relief no interest loans. Um, yeah, so.

09:48.68
davidmcdermott
Um, something.

09:56.25
davidmcdermott
Yeah, yeah, you're offering a lot of support and and it sounds like you're very much working at the front line interacting directly with community members in need in a range of different areas from financial support to and to to all sorts of other things.

09:56.93
Karen Dare
Lot of services.

10:04.70
Karen Dare
Um, yeah.

10:09.55
Karen Dare
Um, absolutely yeah.

10:13.84
davidmcdermott
But in terms of Asylum seekers. What what is the service that you offer to Asylum seekers.

10:15.80
Karen Dare
We so we have 18 units of crisis accommodation 3 doors down from our head office which we lobbied for it was sitting vacant and we knocked on the door of the department of housing. Um. We are provided funding um through multicultural affairs for emergency relief. So we have money to provide some support because at times people have no work rights and no income. So we don't get involved in the right or wrong of their humanitarian. Um, situation or their visa situation. What we do is we make sure people have a roof over their head and food on the table. Um and support to um health support mental health support and employment opportunities to to gain employment. Um.

11:03.73
davidmcdermott
Yep.

11:05.17
Karen Dare
We do have a legal team that's part of um rails is part of the consortium and they support people with their visa applications and so on but primarily the state has funded us to provide relief to people emergency relief and and support for the base women.

11:20.50
davidmcdermott
Okay.

11:24.40
Karen Dare
Needs like you know Healthcare housing food.

11:25.16
davidmcdermott
Yes, because the not-for-profit sector is ah is ah obviously ah, um, really ah, a whole skillet itself to master and and get to know as a leader and and you've been in the game for for many years Karen and like I I found it a.

11:42.14
Karen Dare
Um.

11:44.24
davidmcdermott
Leadership development charity and about twenty years ago that was ah and an Australian affiliate of a global youth leadership development charity and we did not work on the frontline. In terms of disadvantage. We did go and do community work. We had these community days where where the team would go and do frontline work but our core offering was running youth leadership training where we trained up and coming leaders as coaches and the idea was they would then go and do good works effectively and.

12:09.51
Karen Dare
Are.

12:14.24
davidmcdermott
Yeah, some of them did start charities but it was all about uplift humanity as a leader and a couple of my clients in more recent years have been sea shepherd Australia and opportunity international australia so sea shepherd gets on the frontline also and their customers are the inhabitants of the ocean.

12:17.40
Karen Dare
Are.

12:22.79
Karen Dare
Um, you know.

12:33.37
davidmcdermott
So they're they're really looking to and conserve and marine conservation is the full focus whereas opportunity international they're a microfinance organization and they give about $10000000 a year around the world in in third world countries and they're not working on the frontline they're and they're providing. Loans to to people in third world countries to break out of effective cycles of slavery and then and repay the loans and repayment rates are very high. So. There's all sorts of models but it it sounds like um and you you know you tell me is it is communify a hundred percent frontline

12:59.65
Karen Dare
Um, oh.

13:12.30
davidmcdermott
Work or is there a hybrid of ah you know financing or or providing and loans or or more helping those that then go out and help the disadvantaged is there ah is there a bit of a split or is it 100% working with the disadvantaged on the frontline.

13:27.60
Karen Dare
We're a hundred percent frontline we're 100% mine and we're we're really in a fantastic position that we have like we have 230 amazing staff. But we have over 200 volunteers as well. So you know we we run transport services we you know a whole range of.

13:30.27
davidmcdermott
Right.

13:45.50
Karen Dare
Things that we couldn't do. We've run through eat pantries. So every day at our acacia rid site people can come in for food um twice a week at our other neighborhood centers people can come in for food relief. They can get no interest light. We are absolutely frontline and everything we do donations that come to us 100%

13:59.84
davidmcdermott
Yep.

14:03.38
Karen Dare
Go to the front line. Nothing goes internally and that's one. It's quite unique. A charity we have enough. Um, you know we have enough funding to manage you know the costs and and we run. Ah the ah we're not um, shy in saying we run a very good business. It is a business. We've got.

14:21.25
davidmcdermott
Um, yeah.

14:23.26
Karen Dare
Hundred and thirty um people to pay every week we have. We have a very strong corporate team that have we have accountants and we have a range of um you know volunteer managers and marketing team like it takes a lot. Um, but I would say the majority of our staff probably.

14:32.67
davidmcdermott
M.

14:42.33
Karen Dare
Ah, hundred and eighty five to one hundred and ninety a frontline and then we back andorphville sees where there as enablers to to make sure that our teams can do what they need to do.

14:57.53
davidmcdermott
And with the volunteer team which sounds like it's roughly the same size as the the actual core core full-time team How much of your core team does the volunteer team take up because but managing volunteers is is um, a whole art in itself and it comes with a whole.

14:59.86
Karen Dare
Is.

15:15.53
davidmcdermott
Ah, range of challenges how much how much of your time does that take up.

15:16.50
Karen Dare
So We we have one 4 day a week volunteer um coordinator we have ah a really good volunteer management software and as people come in to volunteer. And and you know we look at their interests and align them with one of the services that we're offering. Um, we then transfer they transferred over into that team and then the manager of that team manages them. So Um, and we have a couple of little services like we've got the um, we've got a free range library. Where it's all volunteers and they with this. They were an entity unto themselves and that fell over and so they came to us and they run themselves basically under our support and they collect books and get them out to boarding houses and hostels and um, just. You know out to to um areas where people don't normally buy books or have access to books. So yeah, we have those little services right through to very large you know our food pantries couldn't so couldn't do it without Volunteers. We've got volunteers every day sorting fruit and veg and um. You know, supporting people to make choices about what food they would like. So yeah, we are very reliant. So we've got ah a large group of Retirees Um, and we've got you know a number of um, you know lawyers and you know people that have had very rich lives that really want.

16:42.68
Karen Dare
To spend some time giving back to their community. So we're in a very good position with a number of volunteers and you know their passion and and their commitment sort of every week

16:56.30
davidmcdermott
So from from what you've observed in the novel in the not-for-profit sector since 1984 or and that's sort of get pretty much exactly 3 decades if my maths is correct or is it um or four decades I think my my maths. Tells me 4 decades if that's right? Um, what what have been the main insights that you know that you now have come away with in terms of ah the not-for-profit sector in Australia what you've observed the the challenges and what the sector needs to deal with.

17:13.86
Karen Dare
Um, getting in tobacco list. Yeah yeah.

17:30.14
davidmcdermott
And what are the what are the current challenges in the sector that are still unaddressed that you see are the the biggest things that need to be worked on.

17:34.98
Karen Dare
Um, look I think um, there are lots of fantastic organizations. Um I think I'm going to be controversial here. Everybody wants their own charity and. You know more and more small charities are popping up and it really just disperses the efforts. Um I'm going to talk about food relief. Um, you know we we get a lot of of food from odds half as and second bite I'd be saying to them. You know. Rather than all these little charities wanting to do good work. Let's cluster them together because we're all getting not enough food now to to provide for the people that are coming in so more and more I'm seeing people that want their own charities who knows why um rather than you know, knocking on the door of some of you. Local charities and offering their assistance. There. So I think that's a concern and you know, um I'd love to see some coordination of um registration of of charities and trying to get us to work closer together. Um I think the other. Big thing is that you know running an organisation is a business and for a lot of organisations. We've had a number of organisations merge with us because they've got into financial difficulties because even even though they're small. They have the same responsibilities that we have.

19:04.12
Karen Dare
So accreditation. Most of us are accredited through ah some standards whether it's hsqf or Hd care. It's a big job to get ready for accreditation. You have to have a quality manager you have to have an accountant you know like small charities are really struggling. Um because you know the requirements. Um. In managing charities is the same across the board. So I think I think there's some issues I think you know we'd be encouraging some of those smaller charities to cluster together people often say to us can we we want to identify in Gladstone or we want to identify. And I say you've got it. You've just got to bring all your guys together and operate under one. You know you don't have to lose your entity. But if you could start operating and share back back. Ah back office services or just get um, creative about the way you you're working. That would be helpful for charities. So I think some of us have been in ah in a good situation where we've been able to win tenders and grow others haven't um that hasn't been their priority but now they're really struggling with the regulations and compliance issues that um. Importantly, are there to protect. Um, yeah to protect the community and and the investment from government. So yeah, it's it's it's tricky. Oh yeah.

20:29.61
davidmcdermott
Yes, and yeah, you communifize one of those stories of ah of success in terms of you have attracted funding. You have been able to grow and now you it sounds like you are sustainable. You know when donations come in. They go straight to the frontline.

20:34.20
Karen Dare
1

20:44.10
Karen Dare
Fifth.

20:46.90
davidmcdermott
Work that you do not not um, be be needed to pay salaries, etc. And and that's funded from the fund from the funding that you get directly. Ah, you mentioned at the beginning. Yeah you, you've got a leadership.

20:59.44
Karen Dare
Oh.

21:04.26
davidmcdermott
Ah, development focus where it sounds like people do rise up and then they become gms et cetera and then go off and become gms and ceos of other other organizations is there a trend as to whether they gravitate towards the Not-for-profit sector and stay in the in the sector or go to the. For-profit Sector is a little bit of ah, a mix of everything.

21:25.81
Karen Dare
So we we seeing people and and some of it's you know, just for leadership development and you know they're ready. Um, so they either go to ah another ngo or else they go into government so they might go to Queensland Health or to a primary health network. Um.

21:37.42
davidmcdermott
Right.

21:42.25
Karen Dare
So yes, they're the kind of 2 splits they go into government. They don't tend to go into private business. They tend to go into another not-for profit or into a government role and both of those are good. It's great to have people that have been on the frontline in government positions because they gave a deeper understanding. Um when they become. You know, funders and and influences in how government dollars are spent so I was great thing if we have some move in to into government roles I do like to see them sector too. So yeah.

22:07.65
davidmcdermott
Um.

22:12.24
davidmcdermott
And how yes and how do you guys? develop leaders at communify.

22:23.49
Karen Dare
Look we start right? We take students. Um on um, placement through to doing social work or psychology. So it starts way back then. So um, when we've got we see some really great students. We've always got opportunities for um to employ. So some of our best leaders have come up through being um students and then taking a role with the organization we do invest heavily in training. Um and opportunities for our leaders to um to go to conferences and we have um. You know we we provide supervision and we have external group supervision. Um, we have we have a range of opportunities for young leaders to um to build their skills and each year during you know the appraisal they identify what they'd like to do in the in the next year have their own each of us staff have a ah training budget. But we also invest further in in in um, opportunities that are going to benefit the organisation from our investment in our in our staff. So yeah.

23:30.85
davidmcdermott
And yeah, the the fact that and you know that I guess there's some that will show natural interest in leadership and others that you know it's not.. It's not for them but they are rising up and they are moving on what about those that you retain I guess there a pattern that. That people hit a ceiling and then they do go elsewhere or do you also get a core that that have remained and and a part I Guess your core leadership team.

23:59.45
Karen Dare
Yeah, look we've got um the ten year ten year and overc club like we've gotten using retention um, particularly ah in our leadership. So um, yeah, most of like my c um cio has been with us 10 years

24:04.12
davidmcdermott
Um, okay.

24:17.27
Karen Dare
We've just got a new cfo. Um, and our previous had been there for 7 so actually people love working for us which is great I think we've got ah a really good culture. We really foster. Um, independent thinking and you know I thought in my team get an idea, get your wings go for it. You know don't fly. Far away. But you know like we want people to come. You know our teams to come up with ideas innovate um some of the best work that we've done has come from our our leadership our springboard program which is a dual diagnosis. Aod program. Um, one of my staff. Ah has a lived experience. He was running running my menia health service but had had ah a very a big addiction in his life and had been to jail and had extraordinary turned his life around is such a great um example of recovery. He said I'd love to run a a diagnosis aod program. So we applied for link funding we applied and ran a pilot It's now up and running and growing and he leads that um his idea I mean um I helped put it together and locked on lots of doors. But um, that's a testament to him and you know every graduation class I try and get there. And celebrate. You know that more people have been able to um, experience. Ah, you know, get through a program. That's really supporting them to recovery. So yeah, so they're great. You know we are very um, yeah I think because people are leaders.

25:55.36
Karen Dare
Have ah ah a level of Independence in there. Um with their teams in decision making and and how they all want to operate their teams. They're very experienced. We don't get In. We don't get in the way they're not micromanaged I think that makes a huge difference and we've had you know. More Junior staff go off and work somewhere else and come back which is ah a testament like we've gone and and worked there and thought well we you know? Um, she unifies a great place to work.

26:26.58
davidmcdermott
And I mean it sounds like it's grown steadily over the last four decades is does the growth still continue or is it maintained at ah at a certain size now and impact.

26:31.10
Karen Dare
For.

26:39.80
Karen Dare
Like um I said to the board I think we said at our last strategic plan. We'd like to get it to um, 25000000 turnover. Um and within a year it was 30000000 so but aiming for a 3 over 3 years or 25000000 in a year. It had exceeded that. So I think you know I have to say success. You know builds on itself. We've got a really good reputation. We deliver really high quality services. Our focus is on the outcomes for the people we support. It's never about. Business or about the dollar. But if something comes up and we think that would be an amazing um addition to our suite of services that's going to mean that we can do this and this and this um we don't just chase. Um, we don't just chase tenders. It's very well thought out. Because you can get yourself into um a big mess if you're just running out and trying to to win business. You've actually got to deliver so we never buy off what we can chew. We're really clear about what our capacity is um, we've built. We've got fairly advanced um systems in place that allow us. Really strong platforms. So we can um, you know we can win tenders that are quite large um and manage the financial components of them and the staffing and so on and we're just at that point where after 5 years we're putting in. Um.

28:11.49
Karen Dare
We're doing some financial digital transformation and we're updating our client record system. So you know we're always moving our systems and improving those as we grow I Think if we don't do that You know.

28:26.93
davidmcdermott
Um, ah.

28:30.16
Karen Dare
You just end up with a um yeah, a workload that's unmanageable and it ends up that your backend is you know, taking too much ah out of the out of the funding pool that should be going. We try 77% to the frontline. So um, which is.

28:40.42
davidmcdermott
Yes.

28:49.76
davidmcdermott
Yeah, that that is significant and in terms of your leadership team I mean ideally the role of the Ceo is to support the leadership team to do what they do best. So how.

28:50.80
Karen Dare
Pretty extraordinary.

29:05.70
Karen Dare
Now.

29:07.10
davidmcdermott
How do you find that in your day-to-day and what can you share with us in terms of stories of your interactions with your leadership team highs and lows you know things that are challenging and things that are really a peak experience. Can you share with us some stories of that side of the business.

29:15.46
Karen Dare
Um, so look we we? Um, we have a corporate team that meets on a regular basis I probably talk that 3 chiefs would talk every day. Um, you know Cio Cfo and myself so we're talking daily. Um, the corporate team meets monthly. Um, my door is I don't actually have an office I'm mobile. So um, am I anyone can ring me from somebody who's in a domestic team. Write through um, can ring con phone me email me write me a letter I'll respond I think because I've come from the frontline. Um I'm still problem solving with um our team leaders and coordinators and managers. So our structure is. We've got a corporate team. As part of that corporate team I have 3 senior managers they they manage the strength work that we do each of those senior managers has a team of leaders under them. Um, and I so but I still will work with the the tear down because we might have an idea you know. And at the moment I'm thinking ukulele classes. You know like you know like an I'll go and like I'm still wanting to contribute to what we deliver you know um and they'll come up with ideas and say or they'll say Karen we're we're drowning in this can you see what funding you can get for us around this so you know we it's.

30:26.60
davidmcdermott
Fin.

30:43.99
Karen Dare
Um, very involved I mean I ah do know organizations where um, the staff have never seen their Ceo and you know that's extraordinary I see and talk to the leadership team on a regular basis. So and they've you know, bounced stuff off me if we've got any. You know, no incidents that they need to um you know support with they'll phone I'm very involved hands-on with um, any of the problems that emerge but also any of the ideas that um, you know that they come forward with you know I'm still writing submissions and tenders and. Doing less of that these days I'm trying to um, build a bank where they can actually go into you know and and look at what's been successful in the past and and co-write that with me or start to write it once I'm really I want.

31:33.27
davidmcdermott
If yes.

31:38.77
Karen Dare
Um, you know like I am going to fade off into the sunset at some stage and they need you know I don't want a dependency on me for the business. It's got to if I you know hit my bus tomorrow. This comfi would be absolutely fine. It's got various this ship. They know what they're doing. So and that's the sign I think of a business you've got to be able to be if you were be we were removed would it still function I mean on a day-to-day but um, level absolutely strategically I mean I think the Ceo is in much more of a strategic role that might need to you know.

32:00.81
davidmcdermott
Um, and it yes.

32:17.93
Karen Dare
But yeah frontline and even you know day-to-day operations. The organisation is very strong.

32:23.61
davidmcdermott
Yes, it's and it's a really interesting 2 questions to ask whether it's a business owner or or an executive with whether in the public or private sector. Firstly, if you left Today. Could the organization continue and and a lot of business owners will say no to that question some will say yes and and a lot of execs will say yes if the organization's bigger and it has momentum and then an interesting second question is even if their answer is yes to the first planets.

32:43.70
Karen Dare
Yes, wow.

33:01.24
davidmcdermott
If you left today could the would the organization continue to grow would it be able to grow and ah those that said yes to the first question most of those would actually say no to certainly business owners and to the second and I I find that's a good. It's a sign of a.

33:13.95
Karen Dare
Whom.

33:19.83
davidmcdermott
Ah, healthy organization is when you can as the Ceo answer yes to both those questions I mean there may need to be a fit. Yeah.

33:25.21
Karen Dare
Yeah, we've we've got yeah, we've got free thinkers you know I think that's really important like you know we've got really creative um team leaders and and managers that um know the business they know homelessness. They know mental health they know disability they know better than me. Um, so they could and you know we've got we are who we are now we've got our streams. We're probably not going to go more broad than what we are. We're pretty broad already. Um, so we've got. Talent within the organization to um to grow. Definitely so I mean I'm you know I'm nervous about a changeover um because I feel strongly about that a Ceo in our business needs to have a practice background. You know, um. Business skills and that's you know and I've learnt mine along the way I didn't I haven't got you know masters of business I've learned along the way I'm a pretty good accountant you know like you have to you know? Yeah I can write you know like think you learn I would love to see somebody. That's had. Um, and I think some of the best not-for-profits are run by those people that have actually been in practice and understand business and and and the people we serve and the vulnerability um of people and and what it is they need I mean I used to for many years still um.

34:44.16
davidmcdermott
Yes.

34:56.74
Karen Dare
Work on a Friday and see people you know because I missed it so and I think you know and I do try and get out to staff meetings and get get to know um who our teams are and you know make them acknowledge them.

35:13.92
davidmcdermott
Yeah, and it's such a great point. You know that the the Ceo particularly getting down from their ivory tower not being in their ivory tower at all ideally and connecting with.

35:15.96
Karen Dare
For the way. Do.

35:30.41
davidmcdermott
What's happening on the front line whether it's in the not-for-profit sector or um or private I mean there's some great stories of and ah the Ceo of air New Zealand is well known for just turning up on flights and there'll be this. Gentleman not dressed in the normal flight attendant uniform serving tea and coffee and other things and if people ask he'll tell you that he's the Ceo and every now and then he gets on a flight just to stay in touch with what's actually happening on the on the front line and there are other others ceos well known for doing the same thing I know there's a story in a.

35:53.84
Karen Dare
That's from te more.

36:04.90
davidmcdermott
Ah, a big vitamins business in Australia of a Ceo dressing in plain clothes and cleaning the floors with a broomman going around and just listening to customers talking and so he won't attract attention but he can hear what what really is going on on the ground.

36:19.80
Karen Dare
Yeah I mean I think we all of us and you know roll up our sleeve. So I'm not proud to have to go and you know, ah quite okay to go and clean the toilet because there's been an accident you know and and I think that's you know I do the dishwasher you know I will be on the phones if.

36:33.80
davidmcdermott
And if.

36:38.20
Karen Dare
You know we're down on the phone. So I think um I think that's and because I don't have an office and I'm not sitting away in a big corporate office I just move around and you know oh it's a great job luck I've been saying since 1984 um

36:46.10
davidmcdermott
Says it sounds fun.

36:57.36
Karen Dare
Five years I'll give it 5 years when I run out of steam I think a big part of what I do is um dream the dream and you know like really try and dream what we can do for people you know and I say when I run out of that I'll I'll go you know and I'm still I keep saying I think I've got three more years now because I'll be.

36:58.98
davidmcdermott
7

37:15.61
davidmcdermott
Strange.

37:17.41
Karen Dare
67 but it'll probably be 5 Um, but yeah, ah you know when you're done and I yeah I feel like um, there's a few things that I really want to finish before I retire. Um, yeah, so every five years I've kind of renewed my um.

37:20.80
davidmcdermott
Move.

37:33.84
Karen Dare
My contract internally with communified. But yeah I worry I feel like it's been an amazing organisation to work for.

37:35.58
davidmcdermott
Yes.

37:42.50
davidmcdermott
And I love your term internal contract because yes we sign a external contract with a business and if if we work within it in any role and but this idea of an internal contract is actually much more important and that taps into.

37:57.45
Karen Dare
Um, and.

38:01.79
davidmcdermott
What do you actually want to achieve what's your internal contract with yourself whether it's a business you you own or or a business that you're a leader within So can you share anything about those couple of things you said that are part of your internal contract before you before you consider retirement.

38:01.97
Karen Dare
No.

38:19.81
davidmcdermott
What what detail can you share at the moment.

38:21.18
Karen Dare
Yeah, so um, we have been working for the last couple of years on a new initiative in the child protection area. So we run the intensive family support service for North Brisbane in partnership with that for kids so we see children. We notify all the time. Um, where children are at risk living with high risk families. Um, these families. Love their kids. Um, they often. There's often underlying issues domestic violence mental health drug and alcohol that really gets in the way of of their responsible parenting so and there's nothing between.

38:43.59
davidmcdermott
Ah.

38:56.91
Karen Dare
Um, you know a weekly visit and removal and at the moment removal for many kids is residential. So our foster care system is kind of broken. Um, and so we've we're seeing four yearolds in a rei so that means two kids in a house with staff moving through.

39:06.17
davidmcdermott
Oh.

39:14.52
davidmcdermott
Oh.

39:15.96
Karen Dare
Terrible so we came up with I mean there was ah um, a pilot down in Victoria in Heidelberg and it was a um, a model of care for these kids in high risk and ah it was an enriched learning environment. We've taken it a step further. And what we are looking to do is have a shed care model so that we've got it'll be a licensed childcare that it'll run seven days a week potentially from 7 to 7 and kids will come into our care and we'll be um, looking after their um. Their care needs including nutrition I mean we had two kids die last year from malnutrition you know like we can do better less. So um, we you know we're looking after you know we've we've got attachments. So we're there every day they've got that certainty. They've got the safety. Um, we've reduced the exposure.

39:56.64
davidmcdermott
Ah.

40:09.23
Karen Dare
For these little ones in highrisk families. We've given parents the opportunity to spend the time on um, recovery, um and getting treatment and so um, I've had this wonderful group of women. Um, ah businesswomen behind us. Um, and so. We're at the point where we bought a block of land. This is what comunfi has been able to do because we've been very careful with our money we have reserves so we've just bought a $2000000 block of land at Zumma and we're in the process. Um Carolyn stoler from hassles has been involved and so we've got some master planning. So we're at the point where we are raising money and support for um to build so. It's very exciting so I need to build this wonderful facility and we need to be out start to care for um, our most vulnerable children and I know there's lots of. Charity children's charities and we need all of them. But if we can't look after these most vulnerable kids these are the children that die under 2 more children die few than any other child children within that child protection system. So um.

41:14.14
davidmcdermott
Ah.

41:20.45
Karen Dare
Dedicated We want to get proof of concept and not that communifi will roll it out elsewhere. But we'd like to see that um that it it the results from this could be replicated and taken to other regions and we'd love to work with other organisations to do it.

41:34.50
davidmcdermott
And when when the facility is built. Will it be effectively like an out-of-home care facility run by Communify or what would you call it? okay.

41:43.62
Karen Dare
Will be. They'll go home at night children will go home either to to a foster to a foster carer. We've been working with kincare so we've been working with and um northside elders. So um, they'll come in for the day. Um, we'll go and pick them up. That's the other thing like you know if you. Um, a lot of these ah kids their families will be on a voluntary order. This will be the the step before children being removed. It'll be an opportunity for families to be able to try and turn things around at the moment There's not a lot of opportunity because they've got their kids in care. So and that's where we we could go up to seven days a week

42:14.12
davidmcdermott
A.

42:22.35
Karen Dare
Um, some children might only come in for a few days a week and or or five days a week till five o'clock we might have some kids where we bath and do dinner and take them home for book and bed. But what and then if we if we turn up and the environment is not safe. We would have an emergency foster situation. So we're just trying to get something and everyone that we've talked to from the um head of emergency at the royal children's hospital to the head of psychiatry there to child health to the legal system even to the department everybody is saying this is the missing piece. It's one of the missing.

42:41.22
davidmcdermott
Right.

42:59.90
Karen Dare
I mean the child protection system numbers are growing opportunities to support kids is reducing. We also want to um, help these kids hit school ahead of the game because what happens is they normally quite delayed. Um and so they start school behind and then. You know you often see then the naughty child and you know the kids you're seeing in juvenile justice now are these kids that have had a really challenging early years your personality and and who you are is formed in those first 3 years we want to give kids the chance to have the best life that they can have rather than fix a break.

43:24.37
davidmcdermott
And.

43:34.55
davidmcdermott
Yes, yes.

43:38.67
Karen Dare
Child later. We want to nurture ah little ones now and give them the bests in life and so ah look I'm an adopted child and I um I had it's a sliding door and you know we a number of the people who are involved in in this are.

43:44.62
davidmcdermott
Yep.

43:57.86
Karen Dare
People that have had um, opportunities in their childhood. Um, so it's pretty exciting and we've got you know people like Matthew Miller from Dexas and Mary Rowan from Gadden's we've got Carolyn stalkel. We've got Naomi White we've yeah we've got an amazing group of people. Are getting behind us but we are holding our fundraising lunch on the twenty second of February um, and we want people to come and and pledge just the water in some way dollars or or even um, yeah, building material. Whatever it is.

44:26.10
davidmcdermott
All right? We'll put it. And is that in Brisbane cool. Well, we'll put the details in the show notes and and the email out for this for this episode. Thank you and i.

44:35.60
Karen Dare
It is. It's at the Cricketers club.

44:41.68
Karen Dare
Um, and and people happy to put my number and um, give school.

44:51.00
davidmcdermott
I consulted for roughly 3 years to the department of family community family and community services in New South Wales which has now been amalgamated into the department of communities and justice. But even as a consultant you know with a firm at the bouti firm at the time I I was going in and I was. Um, doing a discovery work in in the centers. Yeah in in the fax centers at the time and seeing um to a certain extent and the realities of of the child protection system in New South Wales and and the tragic stories and I have a particular passion and.

45:15.76
Karen Dare
You are.

45:29.31
davidmcdermott
For for that space and there were many innovation projects that came out of our work in that area but not 1 exactly in the way that you just described that sounds like a really really exciting solution to to the many challenges that exist in the space. So.

45:37.47
Karen Dare
A group.

45:47.73
davidmcdermott
Ah, wish you all the best with it Karen and what? what a great project to be focused on um and in the no.

45:49.64
Karen Dare
Um, thank you.

45:54.47
Karen Dare
So I can't leave until it's on so um and you know as I said it's been three years three years now we've got the land probably another eighteen months to build. We need to get it up and run. And yeah I want to stay to see it. So yeah.

46:07.88
davidmcdermott
Yeah I I hear your commitment. It's very clear so we're at time. Thank you so much for your generosity today. Do you have any final thoughts to share with listeners.

46:25.39
Karen Dare
Um, support your local neighborhood center become a volunteer roll your sleeves up. You know I think um times are really tough at the moment for people. Yeah, we can hear cost of living and we've never seen the level of homelessness that we've seen. Um, yeah.

46:34.51
davidmcdermott
And.

46:42.00
Karen Dare
Join your local community in response to those people who are doing it tough in in your community because so we you know takes a village so that I'll be suggesting your local neighborhood center or your local charity that's working with vulnerable people. We need you.

47:02.66
davidmcdermott
Yep, beautiful, great suggestion and I fully support that. Also thanks again. Karen I really appreciate your time.

47:15.50
Karen Dare
Um, I've really enjoyed it. Thanks David.