Practically Ranching
Join Matt Perrier as he visits weekly with interesting, thoughtful, entertaining individuals within the beef community. Conversations will inspire curiosity and creativity while maintaining the independent spirit and practical nature for which ranchers are known.
Practically Ranching
#42 - Tucker Stewart, Washington to Washington
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Tucker Stewart is the Senior Agricultural Policy Advisor for U.S. Senator Roger Marshall.
Raised on his family's farm and ranch, Mid-Continent Farms, near Washington, KS, he strives to share the story of production agriculture with all those around him, whether at work or play.
Links:
Advocacy for Agriculture, The Show Circuit, https://bit.ly/SCAdvocacyForAg
Episode #35, Practically Ranching, Gregg Doud, Building the Coalition
Thanks for joining us for episode 42 of practically ranching. I'm your host, Matt Perrier. Today's guest is Tucker Stewart. Tucker is from Washington, Kansas. And now lives in Washington, DC. He's had a very similar upbringing and education to a lot of us who listen to this podcast. He's raised on his family. Seedstock operation Mid-Continent farms. He went to junior college and onto a land grant institution. Uh, in Tucker went to law school. And I think it was there that maybe he really figured out how to. Put that Stuart charm and ability to communicate into use for, for all of us in the ag community. I'm not going to give Tucker's whole CV. He'll touch on them, uh, later on in the podcast. But suffice it to say that Tucker is in his element there in DC. When he mixes with. This very diverse crowd that is in our nation's capital. Always sporting his cowboy hats and boots. The folks around the beltway immediately know his roots and Tucker is always proud to share them and stories that go along with. And I think that connection between Washington, Kansas in Washington, DC. Is more than just your typical double entendre. It has become Tucker's way of bridging the divide between rural and urban America. And all of us know that we need plenty of that. And you're going to get the real DC experience in this episode, we recorded it during Tucker's lunchbreak. So he's right there in the Senate office building. With all of the acoustics that one would expect with marble and wood everywhere. Uh, you're going to hear the occasional police siren. You're going to hear plenty of construction equipment outside and commotion in the background. So. Just trying to give you the full effect and the full DC experience in this, in this podcast. Now. A word of caution. I was, I was raised not to talk much about politics. And I'm going to break this code just a bit on this episode. So for those of you who lean a bit left of me on the political spectrum, You're going to grimace a few parts during Tucker in my conversation. Those of you who lean a bit right of me. Get ready because. You're not going to be immune either. Uh, I don't want to get too philosophical, but my perspective on politics. And my perspective on cattle breeding. I share a few similarities. I find the extremists in both of these arenas, very thought provoking. They add a lot of excitement. And entertainment. But when it comes to making choices that I think are right. For my family and for our business and for our customers. Whether we're talking politics or cattle breeding. I think there's usually a sweet spot someplace right in the middle or. Maybe a little right of middle. That's the most practical and maybe dare I say the most profitable spot for us to be. I think Tucker tries to walk this tight rope pretty well also while he has like, I, his conservative principles. And those are non-negotiable. He also sees that without a little compromise and a little coalition building. We don't get much done. So I'm hope you enjoy our conversation. We're going to talk politics. We're going to talk the farm bill. And, um, everything in between and as always, we appreciate you joining us for practically ranching.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940yeah. You know, uh, I like to say I kind of stumbled my way into dc It wasn't really ever a part of the master plan for, for myself. You know, I, I was a livestock judging scholarship winner for Butler Community College. Went down there with an agriculture degree. Um, came up to K State again for the livestock judging program at K State. Got myself an animal science degree and, uh, was kind of faced with the decision, you know, do I, do, I go back home, uh, on, on the family ranch. Uh, my brother Brigham is back home, my dad and, and my oldest brother Garrett was going back to, to start his vet practice. And, uh, uh, I was in that decision mode. Do I, do I go back and help the family farm or do I try something, uh, a little different and, you know, help the ranch in, in a different way? And so, uh, ultimately kind of shot from the hip, took the LSAT and decided to go to Washburn University to get my law degree. And, uh, while I was there, I actually started the first, uh, ag law related student organization. It was, uh, frustrating to me to see the administration at Washburn try more and more to be like KU when You know, even in western Kansas, while there's shortages of, uh, vets and, uh, techs and, and labor, uh, there's still a pretty big shortage of, of attorneys in Western Kansas. And so, you know, why try to beat KU at their own game when we could carve out, you know, washburn's own little niche in the state of Kansas and serve the rural community. And so, uh, that was ultimately a really successful student organization that still exists today, a lot of membership. and then when I graduated, I was, I was looking to probably go back home to hang my own shingle, maybe, maybe be a county attorney when, uh, the Livestock Association in Kansas had a job opportunity open up. I had, had worked some with, Livestock Association while in law school, I interned at the Department of Agriculture and was in kind of their, legislative team somewhat as well. So had several interactions with Beam and, and, uh, Aaron Popelka over there. And so, you know, they really encouraged me to, to apply and ended up getting that job and was there for, oh, gosh, six years, maybe longer. And, Senator won his election to, to be US Senate here at in Kansas. And, uh, got the phone call from his team asking if I was curious to, to join his team and, and be a part of the ag policy crew here in DC and, and, uh, ultimately decided to, to say yes and packed my bags up. First time I've ever actually outside of the state of Kansas. I went from Washington, Kansas to Washington, DC so
Track 1Ha ha, that's
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940very confusing for pe for people. I'll be on the road
Track 1ha
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940an airplane and, Hey, where are you headed to? I'm headed to Washington, heading home. Well, that, that doesn't do us any good at, which home are you headed to in d dc or Kansas? So,
Track 1That's good. So you're now the Senior Ag Policy Advisor for Senator Roger Marshall. Is that the correct title?
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940is the correct title. I'm also the only attorney on staff, so I, I handle a lot of counsel related questions and, you know, legislative building related questions whenever someone's asked, you know, am I, am I right in this thing? Right? I can give them some guidance on, on what they're trying to get done.
Track 1Would that be a little unique in D. C. amongst, uh, senators, staffers, to only have one attorney?
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Uh, not as rare as you'd think. I mean, there's, there's, there's certainly attorneys on a lot of people's staffs, but, um, there's also a lot of policy staffers here that aren't attorneys. But I will say sometimes I don't know how some of those other staffers do it. You know, law school kind of rewires your brain and makes you think a little bit different when you're approaching, uh, transactional and statutory drafting. And so, you know, as an attorney, I'm kind of the second or third line of defense on is what we're crafting in a bill, doing what we actually want it to get done. You know, we have ledge counsel up here that does an incredible job at, at building things for us. But, you know, without truly being kind of an expert in both policy and how things are supposed to be written, you know, there's, there's things that can slip through the cracks.
Track 1Yep, indeed, and, uh, Um, as much as we like to give attorneys a hard time, if you don't take those steps and things do slip through the cracks, uh, what was intended won't necessarily be what occurs. And so, um, yeah, that's, that's some good information and good insight. Uh, before I forget, you mentioned Brother Brigham, congrats to him on the, uh, I think I just saw that was Facebook official a couple of days ago.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Right there at the state fair too. And I, I have to say I wasn't read in at all. Um, he had hinted,
Track 1you found about it on the same way the rest of us
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940just as surprising for me. He had kind of, sort of maybe hinted he had bought a ring, but, you know, wouldn't, wouldn't confirm and kind of dodged all my questions whenever I'd ask him about it. And we were sitting there, uh, when it was kind of accidental that I was there because I had a flight back outta Kansas City the next morning to go to DC 'cause I was at State Fair for, political reasons with Doc doing a couple ag forums. Uh, and it was, you know, also great to be around with the steer show. But, uh, as soon as we knew that the crossbred steer had had, had won the crossbred division, I decided to stick around and. I'm glad I did because we, we won the steer show. Uh, Dak Seber, good kid, real good kid, uh, was leading his calf up to the backdrop. And uh, suddenly I see Brigham kind of playing in the dirt. And I'm like, what? Why is he, why is he down there in the dirt? lo and behold, he wasn't playing in the dirt. He was just proposing So
Track 1What a deal. What a deal. Well, if anybody knows, Greg, or anybody else, they would say that that is a classic Stuart move. the whole thing, you know, the location, the timing, the, uh, not, not reading you in, uh, the whole thing. So, good for Brigham, good for Brigham. Yep, that's good stuff.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Megan's awesome.
Track 1Good, good to hear. Well, all the best to, to all of them. Well, You kind of glossed over as you were talking about the timing of your arrival to D. C. Am I correct? You got there like January the first week, Tucker? That's what
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Yep. That, I think I officially started, uh, January 3rd. I moved in in December into an apartment, uh, December of 20. So, uh,
Track 1thought I remembered seeing a post about
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940um, you know, quite entertaining I suppose. Uh, number one, everything's still kind of on covid protocols, and so coming from
Track 1that.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Kansas Covid protocols versus Washington DC Covid protocols was, was a bit of an adjustment. Um, in dc oddly enough, you were supposed to wear masks outside and, uh, Uh, here I am, you know, full suit and tie, cowboy hat, I hate to admit this, but, but riding a scooter to work. I was just close enough that, you know, I didn't wanna buy parking at my apartment complex. And so I rode a scooter, but, you know, I would never wear a mask outside, for obvious reasons. And, you know, family members would come visit and they would get yelled at. They're not wearing any cowboy hat or anything, but they would get yelled at for not wearing a mask outside. And I tell you what, wearing that cowboy hat, not a single person ever mentioned anything about wearing a mask outside. it was, it was, it was kind of funny. But yeah. Then I think three days after I started, we had the January 6th protest happen and, um, they locked us down and, uh, typical farm kid fashion. So this is like, we are Are just starting. We're in a temporary office space in the basement of Russell. We have no actual big TVs to watch what's going on. We have, I mean, I mean, to tell you the size of a computer screen TVs that were just kind of sitting around. And earlier in the day, I walked out to my pickup truck to uh, just get a couple trim nails. 'cause I have tools in the back, obviously who doesn't. And, uh, hung some little right? Hung a couple little trim nails so we could actually at least put the, the baby TVs on the wall so everybody could watch it. And so we're just kind of seeing this thing unfold. And I remember walking out to my truck and just looking down, uh, I think it's Constitution Avenue, then it connects to Pennsylvania Avenue. But you can see, you know, quite a ways down there. And it was just a sea of people. I, I, I have a hard time comparing it to anything because. Country Stampede is probably the biggest event that I've ever been to, right? And so think country stampede times about 10 or 20. that's the sea of people I saw down there. And that was back, you know, when the rally was over by the White House. And so I bring in a bag of tools, like a hammer and nails to hang these tees up, TVs up, and my truck's parked right next to the Capitol building. And then we get locked down and we're watching everything unfold. I remember going to the restroom in our basement and no one really came into the Russell side, but I could, I I started coughing a little bit 'cause my throat got tingling. I'm like, wow, am I coming down with something? And then it, it was, you know, tear gas, Of, kind of wafting in and you know, went out the next day to, to my truck and it was still in the same spot, not a scratch. Of course it has eat beef on the front, a antenna looks like a 50 caliber bullet and then, you know, drink milk on the back So, um, I'm sure I got investigated by the F B I just because my truck was sitting there parked and it, you know, looked like someone who would be at the protest. But, um, you know, it really didn't impact us over in the Senate. We were just kind of watching it unfold on small TVs.
Track 1So I'm curious and you were probably far enough away and I don't want to get too deep into this because we've got bigger fish to fry going forth, but you had the televisions stapled to the wall and you had the reality out the door that you could watch. Um, was there any difference? In what you saw either place?
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940so because we were so secluded, I mean, we, what, what was happening, and being covered on tv, we, we didn't hardly see at all in the Senate buildings. You know, of course the, the Capitol building sits in the middle, and then you've got house buildings on the south Senate buildings on the north, and there's a tunnel that, you know, connects some. I, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't, I don't think there was any senate offices, impacted in the actual Senate buildings themselves. So,
Track 1So you were on the other side of the Capitol.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Right. And then, so we're in the basement, no windows, so couldn't really see outside, you know, eventually they let us out, when I, when I got let out, there was a lot of people going home and, with flags and stuff. I don't even know, man. There's Not a lot of hotels that could accommodate that many people in dc. So I don't know where they were all going, but they were just kind of dispersing it, it was, it was not as, um, scary from our perspective as it was portrayed on the TV because we weren't really in the thick of it.
Track 1So, fast forward to today. what do you do? What's a, what's a normal day in Tucker's life today?
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940I feel kind of worthless saying this, but uh, you know, I read, I write and I talk to people, you know, that, that kind of sums up the job of an attorney, you know, pretty simply. But, uh, you know, a day in the life is, is pretty simple. I, you know, come in the morning, check my emails, kind of figure out what my schedule looks like for the day with regard to meetings with constituents and meetings with the senator. Uh, and other offices, uh, kind of plan out what I need to get prepared for each one of those. Uh, and also the next week's, next day's meetings, uh, and then do a whole bunch of communicating all day long. Uh, It's kind of 24 7 ag advocacy up here. Especially when you're handling the ag portfolio and you know, whether it's building a, a new bill, you've gotta talk to your stakeholders, you know, really hone in on what they want to see accomplished in the bill. Then you gotta work with legislative counsel to get it drafted. And obviously, 'cause I'm an attorney, I'm gonna have several changes, you know, to, to really make it abundantly clear what we want to do. and then, you know, a lot of it is, is talking to groups and it's not always the, the pro ag groups that come in. Sometimes there's some anti ag groups and, I think, uh, communication is key. And so, when I know someone has an adverse opinion, I'm still not shy at, at voicing, you know, the senator's opinion and agriculture's opinion and, maybe it'll fall on deaf ears, but, you know, maybe it'll resonate with some and, and move the dial a little bit.
Track 1in my opinion, that's sometimes... All we can ask for is at least, resonating with the folks that think that we're doing something wrong in, in agriculture, whatever the case may be from an environmental impact standpoint, from a farm bill standpoint, et cetera. a lot of times it's just ignorance, ignorance in the true sense of the word of not knowing, not necessarily not having the intelligence as sometimes we. Misconstrue or miscommunicate the word, actually not knowing it because they don't have any experience. So, DC is, is as good a place as any for someone like yourself that has the background and has the education and the passion, of course, um, and also the ability to communicate that
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Well, and, and it's, it's, there's, there's somewhat of an art to being able to isolate what even an adverse group would want to accomplish and how that, you know, how that could fit in with, with some of our goals. because sometimes building those relationships will make An adverse action that an organization wants to do less adverse, you know, it's a lot easier to work with someone who is a friend than someone who is, you know, stranger. And so, you know, towards the end of the day, a lot of what we do is more networking. So, you know, there'll be receptions or events in several evenings where you go and you meet other staffers or other lobbyists and, you know, you don't necessarily have to talk about work. You talk about who's the best football player in the league, Patrick Mahomes, you know, make, make personal connections because again, when it comes down to, decisions, it's a lot easier for, for a staff member to recommend a, uh, up or down vote to their boss, you know, based on how, how well liked you are too. So, a lot of our solutions for this farm bill, are, are bipartisan. And that's, you directly correlated to me having conversations with. You know, groups that aren't necessarily mainstream ag, but, seeing what they want to do and how that meets what our farmers also wants to do, and, and finding a little bit of common ground to build those relationships out, uh, to maybe stave off something bad in the future. You know, it's something I, I'm really keen on doing.
Track 1So those relationships, whether they be during hours or after hours, I mean, I agree completely. but today, I hear quite often and I sense quite often from folks inside the Beltway and outside that This divide that I think sometimes gets shoved down our throats more than even truly exists. Now you're there and maybe you can tell me, oh no, it's, it's definitely there, but this divide between the Democrats and the Republicans, between the Liberals and the Conservatives, or whatever lines you want to draw. has it always been there? Is it worse today? And is that a good or a bad thing as we try to do what's right for farmers and ranchers, rank and file U. S. citizens, whoever the case may be.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Yeah. I mean, I think there's no doubt that the divide is widening that, I mean, there, there is definitely a rural in urban divide. I, I don't necessarily, yeah, I don't think it comes from a place of, nefarious activity. I think it kind of comes naturally. I mean, I lived in a town where, you know, we had more cows than, than people. Right. And then I moved to El Dorado. Jumped up, but now about 10,000. Moved to K State, jumped up about 20,000, moved to Topeka, jumped up about a hundred thousand, moved to Kansas City. Jumped up, you know, half a million, uh, and then moved to DC where it's jumped up several million. So I've kind of experienced living in ultra rural to now a major metropolitan area and just like in EPDs with cattle environment plays a factor. I think that's very much so true in belief systems. You know, you have to, you have to believe a little bit that genetics has something to do with it as well. But again, genetics plus environment equals who you are. So, you know, I wrote an article in the show Circuit magazine not too long ago kind of describing this, but imagine You know, waking up every single day in the city, you open your window, you can see your neighbor feet away, uh, sirens in the distance. The government's taking care of water or trash, literally everything. There's no ability to, to contract through a private entity for something like that. Uh, there's so many people that you'll inevitably have dings on your car or your car get broken into, you know, if, if you're living every single day without privacy and without other people respecting your property, right? That kind of instills some type of values in yourself, right? And so, especially if you've never experienced real privacy or never experienced a place where there's very few people and could truly appreciated, you know, your values are gonna be dramatically different. You know, when I think back to, to Kansas, I mean, sometimes your neighbor would come over just to say hi, but usually they'd give you a heads up. Otherwise there's gonna be a dang good reason that, you know, they're on your front porch wanting to talk to you. Whereas in the city, someone might just walk across your front porch. Right. Um, so it's not surprising, I suppose, that, you know, people in urban areas have a different value structure than people in, in rural areas. But, you know, being out here, you know, there is still a, a driving curiosity behind a lot of 'em where, you know, they don't know, know something that they wanna know, but you can't really ambush 'em. Right. You can't, you can't start out the gate with something that's controversial or start out the gate with, you know, where does food come from? You kind of gotta build trust and rapport like, Oh my gosh, tuck you wear a cowboy hat, is that, you know, are, is that all hat no cattle, or is that, is there something behind that? Right. And then I describe a little bit about my life, how I grew up. You know, then they, they recognize that I'm, I'm, I'm from agriculture, and then we will talk about sports or we'll talk about Game of Thrones or a book that, uh, that, you know, we, we both enjoy. And, you know, once they begin to trust you and, and, you know, enjoy your opinions on matters of life, they remember, oh, he's also in agriculture. I bet, I bet I could ask him the difference between, uh, no label and the organic label or, you know, what does, what does no antibiotics mean? Uh, you know, how, how are animals treated in what they would call that k o Right. Uh, so eventually they'll, they'll be curious and ask those questions. Um, and you can't really force it. And so I don't know. That's, I'm a big proponent of when people. Come from rural America and go to a city. I mean, think about your last vacation. You know, did you go to another rural area or did you go to a metropolitan area? And nine times outta 10 rural people are going to a metropolitan area for vacation. So, you know, sit at the restaurant with other people at the bar, you know, talk about life and then maybe they'll ask you about agriculture. And, and you know, in that article I said, you know, advocacy, you know, knowing how to talk to someone should be, you know, as important as knowing how to change a tire on the trailer Um, you know, because you never know when, when you're somewhere and someone might actually take the time to ask you about agriculture and you can move that needle.
Track 1And you mentioned when we country folks go on vacation to the city folks backyard, I would turn it around and say quite often, especially since COVID, there's a lot of city folks who are coming to even. The Flint Hills of Kansas and experiencing that as quote unquote tourism that I never saw when I was a kid in the 70s and 80s. and it's happening now. And so whether it is us initiating that conversation or us allowing that conversation to happen when they're in our territory. both are, are very valuable opportunities and ones that I must admit. I feel like we as a group of farmers and ranchers often squander, and often because we don't have or don't think that we have that tie. Because we don't watch Game of Thrones like you do, because we may not have read a book that they may have read, and we don't feel like we can make that bridge. There's always a bridge there, but I think quite often we... in production ag are probably, in rural America, are probably guilty of not trying to find the bridge. We just, we just look downstream and say it's too wide to cross. And, um, and it's dangerous. It's dangerous when we need to build that rapport or that communication or that, do that negotiation on a farm bill or whatever the case may be. It's dangerous when we don't have that. That bridge between us. I do, I want to back up just a step. I went down, I did, I made the cardinal sin and went down the road of D's versus R's and liberals versus conservatives and you immediately made it more of a rural versus urban. Would you say that regardless of political party, regardless of let's say beliefs system, That if there is a divide in our country, in D. C. today, that it's more of a population, rural versus urban divide, than it is a political divide.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Oh man, that's a tough one. I probably categorize it as, as rural versus urban. I mean, data shows the more rural it is, you know, the darker red it is, the more urban it is. The, the brighter blue it is. You know, there's, there's the outliers in each community, obviously. but I still categorize it as. As, as rural versus urban, you know, mainly because of the, the belief structures and where, you know, where does that belief come from? 'cause there's a reason why your geographical location of being rural will likely make you more red. You know, it's, it's your experiences being in that area, and to some extent the other people you are around. So, know, it does become more partisan. Sure. and I've actually said this, a you know, a lot, you know, Democrats could probably do fairly well in rural America if they would, back off of some of the radical environmental stances that, certain special interests would have them vote on. You know, I, and I say special interest lightly because, you know,
Track 1We're all a member of a
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Exactly. You know, um, every, everybody has a lobbyist, whether they pay for the lobbyist or not. You have one and you have a special interest. and so it just so happens that Democrats align with the special interests of more radicalized animal rights activists, more radical analyzed, you know, environmental activists. again, folks that are naive, you know, we're, and I'm talking about, you know, numbers, right? There's always the one off there. There's probably a radical animal rights activist who has grown up on a farm, right? That, that is, there's probably someone out there that has done that. But if you were to take a, a census of all of them, it would most likely be more urbanites who have never experienced life on a farm, right? And so, yeah, I, I really, I really do think it's It's more of a rural urban divide that, you know, percolates itself over into politics. And, you know, I kind of missed one of your former questions. You know, what, what's the temperature like out here? You know, on the Senate side, politics is business, you know, for the most part it's definitely business for Republicans. It's not personal. and so it's easier to get along with your colleagues over in the Senate because you're not praising or you're not worshiping a religion of politics In the house, it's a little bit more difficult. It's, it seems like it's trench warfare over here. Over there, they've got an election every two years. And so with 435 members, you could get drowned out pretty easy. And so I. You know, it's, it's quicker to become a hot potato over there, to ensure that they're trying to, you know, drive an election campaign where, folks would say cooler heads prevail in the Senate. I don't know necessarily think it's that. I just think there's not the pressure to be reelected every second year. And so, you know, that in itself, allow folks to take a step back and, and, and take a big breath. Uh, I will say the votes still probably land fairly partisan on a lot of issues. But if you, if you take the time to build the coalition and do the work, you can get some bipartisanship fairly easily here, here, over in the Senate.
Track 1Well, and some would say would quickly say that, that's not necessarily a good thing. The longer I watch politics and the longer I watch our government at work, as ugly as it may be seeing the sausage made. It makes it even more impressive the way the United States of America was set up two hundred and some years ago. And our forefathers had that presence of mind to create both segments of the legislative branch. And there was a reason that one was going to be... Very quick election and one was going to be a little longer term and it it's it's worked as ugly as it seems to be Today, there's always been ugly times in history and it's still it's it still works It's still can and should
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940And politics shouldn't be religion. That, that, that's, that's, I guess my biggest thing is, you know, there are people that are just very venomous. have an opinion, they can't let it go. And it's, it's hard to wrap my head around it. It's almost like it's becoming a religion and politics shouldn't be a religion. Now, I would say that the left is probably more guilty of allowing politics to become a religion rather than the right, but, the right, we have our quirks too. but at the end of the day, almost all politics should be about business, right? And so it gets difficult, you know, it gets difficult when you're dealing with folks who sometimes believes politics is religious. I mean, let's say. Someone truly believes in a environmental cause or that farmers are, are poisoning the earth. And that's a, that's an elected official. And that's, that is their closely held belief. It's almost as if it's a, a religion. How do you ever get them to back away from that religion That would be akin to, a, a Muslim or a Jewish individual coming to me and saying, your religion is wrong. What you believe in your core is, is wrong. you need to, to come to the light. Right? And, and politics should never be that, that black or white. that's why it's so important to communicate and tell your story in politics so people continue to understand that it's just business. It's not, it's not religion. you can change your mind in politics. Um, because it's not faith-based it is, you know, it's, it's based in what you believe is the right or the wrong course of action in a decision, not, not faith.
Track 1Well in a lot of the political decisions not all but a lot are constantly changing because of changing data and changing trends and changing situations and, yeah, I often hear people say, Well, I can't believe that that elected official changed their position. How dare they change their position? Well, it might be because they succumbed to the pressures of of Washington and of the swamp, but it might be because there's new information and from their perspective, it changed and they had no choice but to change. And again, it was business because just like we in the cattle business may change the way that we tackle an issue, breed cattle, choose the technologies on our farm, whatever the case may be, we're doing that. with hopefully all the data that, that comes in and we're doing it for the right reasons if we study it hard enough and long enough. So, one of the things that I know is going to be, or probably has been already big on your plate, um, definitely revolves around business, businesses right back here in Kansas. the Farm Bill is set to expire this year, correct? And I know that's something that's, probably lurking out there in the future, whether it is an extension of the current Farm Bill or a new Farm Bill. what should we expect here? We talked a little bit about. The basics of the Farm Bill with Greg Dowd on this podcast back, uh, would have been Early spring March April. I think it was episode 35 So if
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940big shoes to fill.
Track 1yeah, if folks if folks want to refresh your course on what the Farm Bill is from Dowd's Perspective you can go back and listen to that one if you didn't already But you know give us your perspective on it and where we are going in the near term and long term with Farm Bill
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940go ahead and just stop listening to this now and, and, and listen to that. 'cause you're gonna get a lot more insight on, uh, all things agriculture with Ambassador o Dowd. Uh, what a great, great Kansan to, uh, represent him or represent us in his tenure. Um, doing good things now for the dairy industry, but Farm Bill, um, man, I can give you some real inside baseball. Again, I'm gonna put a disclaimer here. This is just me reading the tea leaves. This is not official, uh, because every farm bill's unique, but just looking back into history, uh, I, I think we're probably behind the eight ball if we want to pass a farm bill by November, elections of next year. I think it's gonna be exceedingly difficult to do that based upon the political nature of the House and Senate right now. And just by the law of averages, uh, you go back to the 1996 Farm Bill at Pat Roberts chaired in house. He got that thing done in 91 days. They dropped the bill in January. It was signed by Clinton in April of that year. So 91 days really, really quick. Well before the election. that was a long time ago. His bill that he held as a chairman when he was in the Senate would've been 2018, and that one was over 200 days. And so it didn't get passed till after the November election of that year. Uh, the bills in between it were all relatively long. You're looking at kind of a four year running average of over 500 days from when a farm bill is introduced to when it's passed. It's a, it's a little bit shorter if you go further back into history. so regardless, you're looking at eight months plus, you know, eight months to, to two years really, with the law of averages, you know, it's very rare to have that really short one done. So even if we were to drop Bill text this fall, it would be difficult to get it done by Q two of next year. And as you get closer to that election day, I'm just thinking of the number of greenhorns we have in, in the house, you know, what's their incentive to get a major piece of legislation done right before an election? for US Republicans, yeah, it's, it is obviously important, but the amount of money we're spending, and we're still protecting farm bill programs with, with a, with some type of continuing resolution. I think it would be fine in farm country to say, we want to get this thing done right rather than get it done for a soundbite on elections.
Track 1Yep
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940then let's say you hit the November election and the balance of power changes. Maybe you, maybe you lose the house, maybe you gain the Senate, maybe you lose or gain the presidency. If the balance of power rearranges, then the incentive to pass something in the lame duck also decreases because the new people in power will want to dictate what's going on. so vice versa, you know, there, there is a possibility of lame duck, but the way I have Views on the elections. I, I think the incentive would be probably after the lame duck session. Um, if, if I'm reading the t reads leaves, right? So it's, it's hard to say when exactly we'll get a farm bill done, you know, sure they could, they could drop something, um, in November and get it, get something done by December. Maybe we'd have to skip a whole lot of process to do that. Think, you know, not very many opportunities for amendments or changes, et cetera. And that's just not the, the way that business is being done right now. There's, there's a lot more emphasis on process and making sure people have opportunities to weigh in on what they want in a piece of policy, uh, and actually have amendments. I think we've done more amendments in, um, this, this last couple congresses and than several of them before that. So, realistically it's definitely into next year. Uh, maybe into 2025.
Track 1And so, as a result, we will, Congress will then have to extend the current farm bill, correct?
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940in on January one, you have the drop dead date. That's the, that's the dairy cliff that everybody talks about where, a lot of programs revert back to pre eighties policy, and nobody wants that to happen. So we kind of have a little bit of leeway here from when it expires in September to January one, where they can still kind of operate on the previous, the authorizations from the 2018 Farm Bill. but as soon as you hit January one and you haven't passed some type of extension or an actual farm bill, you hit that dairy cliff, which is no bueno. You still have orphan programs out there where they're authorized, but then won't actually have funding attached to it. And so it'll be difficult to handle those, because you actually need a farm bill for those, for orphan programs to continue. You could probably do it in, in a budget, but again, it's not necessarily an ev easy lift to, to get something in a budget either. So, some interesting and complicated questions are coming, bottom line or 30,000 foot level, whatever you wanna call it, the current farm bill will be extended by January one or will pass a farm bill. but my money is an extension and probably not passed, you know, if we missed the Q two. Window in 2024. I really think it's gonna be 25. Call me crazy.
Track 1So as you read those 2025 tea leaves, assuming that you're correct or your bet is correct, what does that farm bill look like compared to the one that we are operating under today and about to be extended likely?
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940I think there won't be dramatic changes. most of our focus will probably be on bipartisan tweaks that increase flexibility of programs without increasing cost. 'cause with any chamber being ran by Republicans, the spending level becomes, one of the prime points of discussion and rightfully so, you know, in. 2018, we passed a farm bill where we were anticipating 60 ish billion dollars being spent on nutrition programs. The last two years we've spent over $180 billion a year. That's, that's triple, it's triple the amount of nutrition spending in a farm bill over the last couple years. Then what we banked on, uh, sure, because commodity price increases, you have some incremental increases in, in the farm titles, but the massive increase has been in, in the nutrition program. And so how do you reconcile that? What, at what point do we say, you know, why even worry about it? Why don't we just extend the current farm bill programs we have? If, if we're not gonna actually, you know, meaningfully put resources behind production agriculture, that's something that will have to happen above my pay grade, but, it does have some merit to, to discuss, there's a lot of folks that wanna raise that safety net as input costs increase, you know, and that's a very, very valid request. if, if you're falling from a higher position and the net's still at the same spot, it's still not a fun fall. So, my anticipation is that's what's gonna be the hangup in why it takes so long to come up with a deal. Democrats aren't gonna want to budge on Snap. Republicans are gonna want to make sure resources are appropriately going to production agriculture, and, try to reign in the outta control spending that Snap has had. and, and there's where the rock meets the hard spot. You know, I think everybody wants to keep those things married. There'll be some that wanna split 'em up. But in farm country, we know the value of buying the urban vote with programs that benefit them. Um, you split that urban vote away, then it, it's exceedingly difficult to pass something just with rural priorities. And so we don't wanna see people going hungry in this country. But again, when you budgeted for $60 billion and that thing expanded to $180 billion, that's gonna turn some heads. Uh,
Track 1without a
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940otherwise, you know, a big focus for, for my boss, has been flexibility tweaks, trying not to increase funding unless we know where some money's come for coming from. We've got some bills that would trim back some of the U S D A spending. Discretionary funds to help pay for some priorities. So, you know, there's a way we can, we can hopefully rearrange some, some monies to get some good priorities done. but Stabenow and Bozeman ultimately will have to have their negotiation on total spending and where that spending is coming from before we can really get base text introduced.
Track 1Well, and I think I read, and we touched on this in that episode with Dowd last spring, but you know, I remember taking ag policy under Dr. Barry Flinchbaugh in 1990 something. Five? Six? Well, it was six, because Roberts was working on the farm bill at the time and Dr. Flinchbaugh, every class would give an update on what was happening in DC. Cause he'd probably just gotten off the phone with, someone that was doing that, if it wasn't Senator Roberts, someone in his, in his office. But at that time. The majority, quote unquote, had just started going to food programs. and we, yet, we still called the farm bill today. Uh, Dr. Flinchbaugh said it should be called a food bill. Well, that was when we were spending 60% ish. On snap type programs.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940we're over
Track 1I just yeah, I just read that 84 percent is the projection for 24 or for 2023 that will go to the nutrition title as opposed to. Production agriculture, um, compared with 76 percent in 18 and 67 percent in the 08 farm bill. So it's on a rocket ship. Now we, we don't have time today and you certainly don't have time to debate whether this is good, bad, or indifferent, but we in production ag still talk about the farm bill, like it's our bill, and we have to recognize that. It may be our bill because farmers grew that food that's being included in those SNAP programs, even though it's purchased at retail, but as far as the payments through crop insurance, through subsidies, whatever the conservation programs, the payments to U. S. farmers and ranchers as a percentage of the farm bill, continue to be whittled away to where they're now, what, 16 percent of it, uh, which is. Uh, probably one of those things that needs to be communicated to the world as we talk about
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Well, and, and if you go back and remember I think it was the 2011 farm bill, uh, that took so long because there was a big push to cut spending in government. And so ag came to the table with, okay, we'll cut spending and effectuated those cuts, and then no other kind of industry did that. No other group in government actually effectuated meaningful cuts. And so we're operating off of a, a deflated budget based off of our cuts and all the way back in, in 2011. And so, know, it, it's, it's difficult. Uh, Republicans are very independent thinkers and it seems like the Democrats are always lockstep on policy priorities. And so how do you chip away at every repo, every Democrat saying, we're not gonna cut snap funding when you need at least 60 votes to get a farm bill done. Whereas, you know, every. Tom, Dick and Harry and the Republican Party has an idea of how to, make a program more efficient and save some money. Right? and so it really, it makes, makes it difficult to create lockstep Republican, uh, priorities because, and rightfully so, we're so independently thinking.
Track 1It's the beauty and the curse of, Again, rural America, uh, the cattle industry, you name it. Uh, it's that independence that, that we cherish and that is our legacy. And that in a lot of areas of this country built this country in these communities. we still hold on to them. We still believe that they're valuable, but it makes things incredibly difficult when we can't come together and agree, no doubt. So. You've been there long enough now. I can call you a, uh, an insider. Um,
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940I'm still, I'm still a Kansas resident, Kansas farm kid. I'm not a swamp monster yet. Okay.
Track 1Alright, so, so the Swamp Monsters get blamed for a lot of what's wrong in D. C. and so I'm not going to put you in that camp. what's, what's right with our federal government today? Is there, is there still something that we can hang on to and say, Yeah, this isn't so bad.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940you know, the, the bones of our republic are good. Okay. We always will have pendulum swings, but the way this country is designed is so things don't necessarily happen quickly. I think the founders intended it for that because if things operated quickly, that means you're moving more towards a, uh, pure democracy, which they, you know, firmly intended for us not to be. They did not want a pure democracy after, looking into history of Greece and even Rome, you know, they wanted a constitutional republic, something that kept the government in check and kept and equally kept the, the mob, the rule by a vote in check as well, because you know, every, there's. A lot of psychological studies about mob mentality, et cetera. You know, uh, we talk about ignorance in agricultural issues. Could you imagine, if we had initiative in referendum in Kansas or at the federal level, just like in California, you know, you'd, you'd legislate yourself out of food grown efficiently just because, you know, a radical special interest group with an agenda, not a mainstream special interest group with an agenda. So, our bones, the way we do things in DC is right. Things have been eroded over the years, but ultimately, our constitutional republic, our representative republic, uh, is good, needs to be upheld and is worthy of everybody's praise and support. there's a lot of still good things out here. I think, uh, we just get so hyper-focused on the negative
Track 1And that's why I asked it. Yeah, that's why I asked it because so often you turn on any news, you turn on any, you read any expose, you watch any documentary, and it's going to tell you what's wrong with our elected officials. It's going to tell you what's wrong with
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940sell.
Track 1exactly. And that I still maintain. I go way back to the beginning of this podcast when I talked about the divide, whether it's The way you look at politics, the way you vote, where you go to church, where your house is. I think that this divide appears to be bigger today because of the 24 hour news cycle. Because of the World Wide Web. Because, yeah, comments on Twitter and Facebook and anything else because we don't... We don't know these people anymore. And if you don't sit down for a drink after a vote at the monocle or wherever it is, I don't even know if that thing still exists, but if, if elected officials, staff members like yourself, community members, folks that are vacationing in the big city from the country or folks that are vacationing in the country from the big city, if we aren't Sitting there and breaking bread together because we've been told that that other person is The enemy or doesn't think right or whatever the case may be It's our fault it's not DC's fault. It's not the political process fault and maybe it is Fox and MSNBC and CNN and NBC's fault I I don't know who we want to point the finger blame, but I know who can fix it That's
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Right. And so that was the other thing that works right, is, is it's still pretty bipartisan. You know, I, we just did a forum at the state fair with the senator and put together a one pager with, you know, over 10 of our bipartisan farm bill priorities that add flexibility, don't cost money, you know, go to crux of real problems with, with programs and, you know, are more likely than not able to be included because of the bipartisan, partisan nature of, of these little fixes. And so, bipartisanship is, is not a bad thing. It is a good thing, obviously you gotta weigh that against, what the compromise is. And, and I think you're right. Could you imagine doing a farm bill in 1996 when you didn't have the, you had, you had to worry about the local newspaper and the nightly news. He didn't have to worry about Twitter exploding on, on something you did with 160 characters trying to define a nuanced vote. Um, but, but I mean, I get it. You know, you've got to stand for something or you fall for anything. And so there's, there's principles that, are pretty dang close to non-negotiable for me. you know, I, I hate Sal never negotiate because again, I'm, I'm I'm a businessman, and,
Track 1and an attorney
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940What, what businessmen in their right mind will say something is non-negotiable, unless it's just a tactic to, you know, negotiate Right.
Track 1Sure, yeah,
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Um, so I mean, there are things and pillars that, that, you know, it would take an awful lot for me to negotiate on.
Track 1Sure.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940and that, that still exists, you know, but, Bipartisanship ultimately is still a good thing. And that is, it's fairly alive and well, especially over here, in, in the Senate where you have to be bipartisan to get something done. You got the 60 vote cloture threshold that unless you run the government with 60 senators of the same party, you have to get bipartisan buy-in to get something meaningful passed. Now, I'm not talking about budgets, nominations, et cetera. This is, I'm just talking about run of the mill, legislation that that needs to happen.
Track 1the swamp monsters, get blamed for a lot of this. And I just blamed the media, the one segment and I'm not there every day. So maybe you can confirm or deny this, but the one segment that I don't think gets blamed often enough are the. Political consultants who make their money on wildly swinging pendulums, whether it be the person who has to hire them to get reelected or the person who has to hire them to find some dirt on whoever it is they're running against. I mean, those folks, it is a huge business when you've got a huge divide
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940The I, I call
Track 1and that's the one that gets, that's the one to me that has just, that we, yeah, I guess it was there. You go to the Hamilton musical or you study history and, and, and it's been there for 200 years, but I'm not sure if we've ever seen it to the level that it is today. And that, in my opinion, more than any political party, more than any elected official, more than any career. politician or bureaucrat. That's what is damaging and dangerous to the system. If there is anything that I could point to, it's those folks that are trying to make this thing volatile just so they can make a few extra million.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940It's, it's pros and cons. An individual has never been more powerful in our government than today, but it's individual being driven by, again, that mass narrative, that mass mobs. So they, you know, just like the founders didn't want to happen, they, they did not want A, a mob to be able to rule, right? They didn't want a large sum of people that didn't take the time to understand an issue to rule. They wanted. They wanted those people to determine, you know, was someone qualified to represent them and did they represent most of the, ideology that, that they wanted, right? and so with, with data at your fingertips, you can sway a lot more people a lot quicker. You know, back then nineties and pre, you know, you could put a headline in the paper, but the next week's headline could be a different headline. And so you had the ability to persuade and tell both sides of the stories and then let the mob make an educated guess. Now it's, you can, it's firebrand politics. You can say one line and everybody will be like, yeah, let's vote against it. Anger.
Track 1Or you, or you can just look who printed it. I mean, back then, everybody was basically reading the same publications, and today, if you see, the New York Times or the Post listed, or whatever the case may be, you're not even going to read it.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Also, there's still some silver lining to some of that too, because, I've always thought, unless you're in the business of politics, your business should not be politics. I mean, look at Bud Light as a prime example. I mean, but seriously, bud Light Target. You know, if you expose yourself to a purely political agenda, And try to brand off of it, you're ultimately gonna ostracize a large segment of your consumers. And so a company should never be in the business of ostracizing, you know, consumers, right? And so, unless you're in the business of actually making money off of politics, I see no incentive to weigh in publicly about politics, right? Uh, you know, because you're just, you're gonna shoot yourself in, in the foot. And that's, I mean, that, that's also kind of a problem with, I want to encourage rural businesses to weigh in. But, you know, it's difficult because you could get, boy, you could get boycotted very easily. and so I default back to tell your story, tell your story about what you are doing, and, you know, try to find persuasive ways to, you know, help educate your consumers. and I mean, there's also a, you know, there's a spectrum. So I, I would say from a business perspective, weigh in less on the social issues and more on the business issues, right? If Bud Light did a campaign about, I don't know, someone trying to make beer illegal, perfectly acceptable, right? Um, but they, you know, they had to choose a divisive social issue that nobody wins in, in the business. So it's a, it is a little bit different if, if it's, if it's actually, if there's a political issue that's actually gonna impact your business, weigh in all you want, because at that point you have nothing to lose
Track 1and there's a reason for you to feel that way, amongst your counterparts. Um,
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940not gonna impact your business, and it's the business of politics, you know, maybe do a campaign for breast cancer awareness or, any host of other nonprofit issues, you know, that isn't gonna get you ostracized.
Track 1well, I told you that I would have you off of here in an hour and I've already kept you for an hour and four. So, I'm gonna let you go and get back to it. And I'll just, you know, as we talk about the business of politics, I know you had a lot of different opportunities. From a business standpoint, when you came out of school, and frankly, I'm very glad that you chose the path that you did. And I think all of us as, as agriculturalists are glad that there's folks like you that are doing what you're doing, because frankly, we don't necessarily have the time to go to DC and spend the time. And a lot of us aren't very stinking good at it. And so we're glad that you are there and hopefully that you will continue to, to share that passion. That you have from your upbringing and that we all have on America's farms and ranches with those who need to hear it the most there within the Beltway.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940Awesome.
Track 1So keep up the good work.
tucker-stewart_2_09-12-2023_123940you for that gracious compliment and um, everyone back home, you know, keep your nose at the grindstone. I know it's tough, but there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Track 1Yep. We appreciate it a bunch Tucker.
Thanks again for joining us. If you haven't already be sure to follow or subscribe right now, so you can listen again in a couple of weeks. And if you're so inclined, give us a five-star rating or comment on your podcasting platform. It helps us to spread the word about practically ranching and share this podcast with others in the beef community. As always this podcast was sponsored by Dale banks, Angus we'll be selling 150 bulls and our annual practical profitable genetic sale on Saturday, November 18th. The bulls just came off of summer pasture and we'll be making a few final calling decisions on those, putting the catalog together, getting pictures and videos. And we look forward to showcasing this stout set of range, ready bulls to our customers in mid November. If you'd like to receive a catalog, go to Dale banks.com and contact us anytime.
