The Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast
The Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast is a deep dive into what 3D printing and Additive Manufacturing mean for prosthetics and orthotics. We’re Brent and Joris both passionate about 3D printing and Additive Manufacturing. We’re on a journey together to explore the digitization of prostheses and orthoses together. Join us! Have a question, suggestion or guest for us? Reach out. Or have a listen to the podcast here. The Prosthetic and Orthotic field is experiencing a revolution where manufacturing is being digitized. 3D scanning, CAD software, machine learning, automation software, apps, the internet, new materials and Additive Manufacturing are all impactful in and of themselves. These developments are now, in concert, collectively reshaping orthotics and prosthetics right now. We want to be on the cutting edge of these developments and understand them as they happen. We’ve decided to do a podcast to learn, understand and explore the revolution in prosthetics and orthotics.
The Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast
Breaking Boundaries in Latvia: A Prosthetic 3D Revolution with Katie Leatherwood
Welcome to a groundbreaking exploration of the world of prosthetics and orthotics. What if you could witness the future of personalized healthcare and 3D printing, causing a seismic shift in the industry? That's exactly what this episode is about: a revolution in the design, production, and delivery of prosthetic and orthotic devices. Our guest for this transformative journey is Katie Leatherwood, an ABC certified prosthetist and orthotist making waves in Latvia. Katie's involvement with O & P and her experience with the impact of prosthetics on lives will inspire and move you.
In the second half of our episode, we underscore the paramount importance of follow-up care in the realm of prosthetics and orthotics. By dissecting various nonprofit models for humanitarian aid, we stress on the crucial need for sustainability and comprehensive long-term care. As we delve further into the advantages of 3D printing, the concluding segment promises a peek into the future.
Welcome to season five of the prosthetics and orthotics podcast. with yours peels and Brett Wright, we're bringing in industry experts, patients, vendors and thought leaders to share their stories, insights and visions for the future. Whether you're a clinician, a researcher, a vendor or someone with a personal interest in the field, we have something for you. Join us as we delve into how advancements in personalized healthcare and 3D printing are revolutionizing the industry and changing the way we approach the design, production and delivery of prosthetic and orthotic devices.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone. My name is Joris Peels and this is the prosthetics and orthotics podcast with Brett Wright. How you?
Speaker 1:doing, Brett Hey, Joris doing well. What do you think of your AI voice that we created for you?
Speaker 2:That was scary. I played it to friends and they were like no, that's you. And I'm like no, i never said those words. That was really, really terrifying. I am super afraid of what that's going to do in 10 years from now. We are going to be replaced, but not right now. It's actually us right now. It's actually us. Real live people podcast not just true robots talking to each other.
Speaker 1:I had a fun time doing that and man, that was pretty crazy how that turned out. And now to our listeners. We don't do that a lot. That was just a kind of a fun thing. But I will tell you this, when we have some sort of technical difficulty or something like that, there is a chance that, you know, in the spirit of the podcast we'll fill something in. But for the most part I will say 99.99% of what you hear is totally raw. Brent and Yorah.
Speaker 2:So, Brent, who do we have to sponsor the show today?
Speaker 1:Advanced 3D is the title sponsor for this season, season five And Advanced 3D. Many people know that I'm a part of that, and it's much more than just that, paul and Tyler as well. We're really trying to come alongside of people in the orthotic and prosthetic space, meet them where they are, wherever they are, and help them into this digital journey. And there are, you know, low cost, low risk ways to get into 3D printing. And then our main thing is control what you can control, which is start by printing check sockets and using that and really having the control of the fit of the device for the patient. And then you can outsource for multi-jet fusion or powder-based fusion for these definitive products And you end up with a really good looking socket. And so that's what we're about. We want to empower clinicians to make good clinical decisions, but also using technology for great patient outcomes.
Speaker 2:Okay, that sounds great. Dude, That sounds great, and thank you for the sponsorship. Hey, so, brent, who do we have on the show today?
Speaker 1:Well, yours. I'm super excited to have Katie Leatherwood on. She's an ABC certified prosthetist and orthotist And she lives in Latvia, and so this has been an interesting journey We have had. East Point in general has had a relationship with Katie for a while and we've been following her journey in Latvia and just really inspired by what she does. And most recently she is serving Ukrainian refugees as soldiers and the like that will come to her in Latvia and get a prosthesis.
Speaker 1:And Katie is on a digital journey of digital transformation And she's had some pretty great successes with multi-jet fusion. So I do the design here in the US, i send it to a company in Sweden And literally three to four days later Katie has it at her office and is fitting it. So it's pretty wild to have this decentralized design and production And yet the patients are getting stuff very, very quickly. So Katie's making all the clinical decisions And then I'm just helping her out on the design side And then we're letting the robots make the definitive sockets. So I think we're going to have a lot of fun with this one, yorick, okay that's cool, that's great.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the show, katie.
Speaker 3:Hello, thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:So, katie, how did you get involved with?
Speaker 3:OMP. My first experience with OMP was back when I was in university. I went to Laterno University in Texas And during my time there I was on a student research project that developed prosthetic knees for developing countries. So that was my first experience. I was on that team for about two years. I was on the science team, So basically studying how well the prosthetic knee that the engineers have created, how well that actually does on the body, And then I went to Kenya for two months and did the more research on patients in Kenya And that's when I saw the impact that prosthetics can have, especially on people that have limited resources. And coming back from that trip, that's when I decided okay, this is what I want to do as a career and with my life.
Speaker 2:Okay, and what was it specifically you felt? Was it just like this was the profession for you, or was it more than a profession for you?
Speaker 3:It was kind of more than a profession. I saw the impact not only on mobility and independence, but on the whole person when they were able to use a prosthetic limb, and so, as a profession, i decided, yes, this is what I want to do, i will go to graduate school, get my experience. But also I saw how I could make an impact on someone's life in a greater way using these skills in prosthetics and orthotics.
Speaker 2:Okay, super cool. And then okay, so how did you end up in Laudvia That's the next question Like, that sounds like very far away. How did you end up getting there?
Speaker 3:So I worked in prosthetics and orthotics for about eight years in Texas after graduate school and left my job. I was seeing patients, learning lots of things and getting my experience. I ultimately had a longer term goal during my time in US after gaining experience and understanding of prosthetics and orthotics, I wanted to take it somewhere in less resourced areas. So about five years into my career I kind of came into that place of okay, I kind of know what I'm doing, What's next. So it was about a two-year process of talking with people, of exploring different organizations, different opportunities, praying about it and seeing what would be my next move. And, long story short, Latvia became that next place for me.
Speaker 2:Okay. So, having done business in both countries, like, okay, what's the difference between being an orthotist and a prosthetist? Well, first of all, can you just show up and be like, hey, i'd like to be an orthotist, and then it's fine. Or is it really difficult, or how does that work?
Speaker 3:So Latvia is a European Union country, so there is a lot of regulations, and so my first few years I've been in Latvia for almost eight years My first few years was mostly consultations, working with other clinics here in Latvia, working with university students doing some lectures, so more is it consultation, because the process to get recognized was a very long one. So I went through all the hoops, went through all the regulations to get recognized. My certifications, my ABC certifications, needed to be recognized by Latvia government, and then all the other requirements that they require, and it took until actually September of last year until I was fully legal to have a full medical facility. So now I have designed to live orthopedia And it is a registered medical facility in Latvia.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool. And what's it like? Is it like culturally? Well, just like, apart from just living there, business-wise is it very, very different.
Speaker 3:It is that the system is more I guess not socialist health care, but it's not insurance-based like we have in US, and so everything goes through government funding, which means a lot of wall weights. And so I kind of operate different than the standard clinic here in Latvia. We have kind of a nonprofit side and then a business side. So the nonprofit side of my work is providing prosthetics at no cost, and these are specifically for patients right after amputation, when they're ready we can get them up walking within one month or when they are safely healed. Because the average wait time in Latvia for government funding is eight months, and so that's eight months of waiting and losing strength and everything else that can go with that. And so we want to get any patient up as quickly as the doctor says.
Speaker 3:It's safe, without any documents, without any go-thring in the process. It's by donation. So we use donated components, we use thermoplastic sockets, and the goal is to care for the patient quickly And then after that the patient can go through the process of government funding. If they qualify, then we can go through the funding process for the additional legs that will follow. But unfortunately the funding is quite small, so that limits what we can choose. So we still will use some donated components, along with what the funding is available, so that we can give the best possible prosthetic for that patient.
Speaker 2:Okay, and how do you separate both of the charity and the commercial side of things? Do you have different days for different businesses? How do you keep that very separate, because I think it can be kind of very blurred kind of you know.
Speaker 3:It is very blurred. So the business side and the nonprofit side actually work very connected. The business supports the nonprofit, so the funding that we actually get through the government helps us to be able to help more people through the nonprofit side. So basically, we take any patient that comes to us and then we determine are they eligible to go through the government system If so, now or later, and then if not, then we will help them either way, And so it really just depends where in the process that the patient is. If they're eligible for government or not, then we make that decision at that time. But either way they get the same prosthetic, they get the same quality. Thermoplastic or 3D printing is also decided based on the situation.
Speaker 2:And when you're talking about like having like, basically providing access to people who don't have it, is that, do you have a particular target audience? Is it only people in Latvia, or who are you aiming at in that sense?
Speaker 3:Our main focus is people of Latvia just most of us. You know where we're at, and so our target audience is either those that don't qualify for government funding for whatever reason There's many different reasons why they might not or those that don't qualify yet, and so that could be because they just had amputation and they're not quite ready according to government standards, and so we will start their fitting process much quicker than what they could.
Speaker 2:Okay, and for you is it like? well, does it change? How are the prosthetic devices themselves On the device level, is it the same within the stage? Is it more low-tech, is it more durable? Is there a difference?
Speaker 3:Mostly I mean for what I provide it's gonna be the same, except for we're not providing any electronic devices because of the cost. We're not able to provide those because of the high cost, And so most everything that I provide is gonna be mechanical, hydraulic or carbon fiber, whatever mechanical based. But when comparing an American system with Latvian system, as far as what they provide, it's mostly the same. But there are, and Latvia things are slowly developing And so it's only been a few years since liners have started to be used. They're used to more of the the PTB design, the quad design but slowly they're learning and they're changing to use more issual containment design and they're using more liners. But the technology is still a little bit behind. But thankfully the colleagues that are in the government system are all quite young And so they know that there's better technology out there, there's better designs, and so they're very active in learning what these new designs are and using them on their patients.
Speaker 2:That's kind of interesting. You would say the younger, because the younger people join the government system and they don't have like their own practices yet and then later some of them maybe set up their own practice actually. So the commercial system is, if you will, it's more conservative.
Speaker 3:I would say, i would say well, the government side and the private, they all are based on government funding, and so it's not a private insurance system here, it's all through government funding, as far as what prosthetic can be provided. Of course, the patient can pay additional to what's provided, but that rarely happens, and so, in total, there's about seven prosthetic clinics throughout all of Latvia. So Latvia is a very small country, and so most of those are, i would say, run by older prosthetists that have been around longer, that have been around during the, the Soviet time, and so the younger generation is coming up and realizing there's different ways, there's new technologies, and so it's really exciting to see that, even just the few years that I have lived here in Latvia, i've seen a huge progress in the quality and the designs that Latvia technicians and prosthetists are putting out.
Speaker 2:And okay, no electronic devices. Does that mean, do you miss that? Are you like, oh wow, this one patient would really benefit from an electronic device. Or are you like you know what? I don't really miss it day to day. I don't think most of my patients really miss that. Really mega high tech stuff.
Speaker 3:I sometimes I do miss it because I always really enjoyed doing the programming and you know the high tech stuff. But overall I've actually seen a good fitting mechanical prosthetic Can. Most of my patients can pretty much do anything they want on a mechanical prosthetic And so it's really not limiting so much What they they are able to do. It's mostly just maybe sometimes makes it more challenging for me to To be able to select the the best mechanical device with alignment and things like that. But but overall it's I I don't I don't miss it so much But and it really wouldn't matter if I missed it or not because we can't, we can't afford it here And so we're we do the best with what we can, and most of it is is donated components. So we're very grateful with whatever we have And then in some instances we do purchase brand new Components.
Speaker 2:But but mechanical and is there also like cultural stuff? I know for a friend of mine as a doctor that sometimes in some societies, like you know, men tend to under report pain, for example right or other supplies. People are more likely to complain. So do you notice any cultural differences like that from when you were in the same?
Speaker 3:I wouldn't say brilliant that sense, because Latvia was occupied by Soviets for a long time. Only since 1993 they have been Independent, and so there's still a lot of mindset in the society from the Soviet time. And so disability was was always kind of pushed to the side. So if you had any disability at all, especially a visible one, as an annotation, you were kind of pushed you know, don't come out, cover it up, you know, make sure nobody sees that. And so the some of the older people kind of still have this idea. But the younger ones, they, they don't have this at all. They want to show off their prosthetic, they want it to. They don't put covers, they want it to be part of them, and so kind of the The more out there, the better, which is slowly changing society's view as well. And so the I see the younger generation is actually helping society to view a disability in a better, better perspective Because of their openness and showing their prosthetic.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's, that should be much more healthy. But that stuff we see here that, like you know, the carbon fiber legs are cool That's not yet happening or it is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, i don't offer Covers. All of the ones that I do are gonna be either 3d printed or thermoplastic, and and that's how it is We don't. I offer some covers to older people, but usually they're they also aren't requiring them and so, yeah, it's it's kind of Carbon fiber 3d printing. Let's put some designs on it, let's paint it up, let's make it fancy, put Christmas lights on it at Christmas, and so with the younger generation, the older ones, they, they kind of I just want to walk. I don't care what it looks like, for you know, make me what you can. As long as it's comfortable and I can walk, i'm happy. And so I would say The people here may not be as picky Because the resources are limited Compared to America, and so mostly They're satisfied kind of it's if, as long as it's comfortable, they're satisfied with, with kind of anything.
Speaker 1:You talk about the regulations and such that comes along with Latvia And part of the European Union. Can you just take our listeners who may not be familiar with that, what, all, what all that means and some of the red tape that you have to jump through to get some of these devices on patients.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so so doing nonprofit prosthetics in Latvia is much different than doing it in in Mexico or in Africa or wherever else, because of the regulations. Latvia does follow European Union standards, which is good in a way because it's protecting their people, but also it's very hard to meet all of these standards, especially with donated components, and so I have to be very aware of what donated parts and any parts donated or not What I put on patients, and so everything has to have the CE step Or be made with a machine or equipment that has the CE step, and so that's, that's a standard from EU, and so that does limit some, some devices or some some of these people that are making different things for for nonprofit organizations I cannot use here because they are not CE Approved so that's, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:How does it affect some of your socket choices or What have you along there? is it because it's custom?
Speaker 3:you're able to fabricate, okay yeah, custom custom devices kind of fall in a different category. So if it's custom made, it's the. The equipment that you use to make the custom made prosthetic has to be CE stamped.
Speaker 1:Okay, so and then along along that, and I know we've had some discussions along there and one of the things that you know, i tell so many people about you and your organization and Is the longevity and the plan for follow-up Can you, can you just share with our listeners, because you know prosthetics and orthodists have massive hearts. They want to help a lot of people. But can you share Kind of your perspective on the nonprofit world in the prosthetic and orthotic field and and what makes I Mean I'm I'm gonna go ahead and say you've got a good nonprofit going, but what makes you unique compared to some of these other ones that may just Don't don't have a plan? Can you share a little bit about that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, i've. I've been involved with different prosthetic missions at different places in my my history, and so I've seen some really good practice models with Charity prosthetics and I've seen some not so good ones, and I've been part of some of these not so good ones. So I've learned kind of what's the most important aspect of doing prosthetics as charity and as a humanitarian aid, and Throughout the years everything comes down to, in my opinion, follow-up care. So anyone can go in that country, you know, as soon as possible, get on a prosthetic and make lots of nice photos and good stories, but there then they go home and so what is going to happen, you know, a few months later, a few years later, will that patient have care and if not, then did that Prosthetic really do any good long-term? and so my work here in Latvia and the projects that we do with, with my, with designed to live here in Latvia, one of my main priorities is follow-up care, and so one advantage of Design to live is we, i live here in Latvia, so I'm not going anywhere, i live here. And so the Charity prosthetics that I give I I will see that person, especially if they're from Latvia. We will have follow-up care. They will come whenever, two weeks after, a month later, six months later, i am here and so I can always make those adjustments, make those replacements, whatever is needed.
Speaker 3:If we've talked about the Ukrainian patients starting mission Ukraine project, as sustainability and follow-up care were number one priority, if I'm going to start this project Which, which I want I have to figure out how to do it in a sustainable way, so that, once we give them the prosthetic, there will be a plan in place of how they will Get follow-up care, how they will do replacements, how they will do adjustments, and all of that should be in place. Otherwise, in my opinion, it would have been a lot of wasted energy and wasted money not wasted, but in the long run, in the big picture, that patient would not have long-term care. And so this this is very important for any of the work that we do is follow-up care, and having that plan And 3d printing has been very important in in in this follow-up care plan.
Speaker 2:Look, it just seems kind of logical. I mean there's, there's like a point where you know, it seems like kind of logical, so we'll give them something, because then they won't them, i'll have something, you know, because anything is better than nothing. Or is it really true that you'd rather have less people? You know what I mean. You know, if you could help, let's say, 10 people, or like you know 10 people, but only given the prosthetic, or five people, and you also give them follow-up care, is there kind of like a you know a path in the middle where you prefer one over the other, or one safer or better or Improves quality of life a little bit more?
Speaker 3:I think they're both important. It's just to consider what the situation is. And so, like we'll talk about in Ukraine, people rushing in to fit as many prosthetics as possible, that's good. It gets them up walking, it gets them seeing that their life's not over, that they're able to live Okay, that's a good thing. But then if they just come in and leave, then there's nothing after that. And if they need a replacement in just a few months, will they have someone there that can help with that? And so I see it both ways.
Speaker 3:I can't really say one is better than the other. I just think it's very, very important to really consider all of the aspects, including how will this patient get continued care? Will they find someone in Ukraine? Will they find someone? Will they come back to Latvia? Will they go to a different center? Just have that plan so that you can talk with that patient about what's next, and so there's many different ways that that can be done, but I think it's just important not to not consider that. But that's so important to think through, to talk with the patient about okay, you're gonna need a socket replacement very quickly. Here's what the plan will be at that time.
Speaker 1:I think that's good advice And I think the bottom line here is that it sounds like just have a plan right, so a plan that's beyond delivering the prosthesis, and we see this quite a bit as well, just in Guatemala, where there is not a plan and then you give patients this taste of walking and independence and all that, and then it's like you take it away And that's a tough, tough thing. So I agree with Katie in that getting them up and going and inspired and all that stuff is really great. But that plan afterwards is really where everything kind of comes together, because you wanna keep that inspiration, you wanna keep the fit going, keep them healthy, you don't want them frustrated And you don't wanna take away their freedom that they had for a lot of times, that short period of time since they got their first prosthesis So super important. And yes, thank you, katie, for thinking about that and really bringing that into the conversation, because it is a big deal.
Speaker 2:And so in this kind of like, I don't think we need a differential, because we have low cost prosthetics, like, let's say, a place like Congo or something where there's no infrastructure, it's difficult. And then we've got like the high cost kind of all the bells and whistles, us kind of private patient kind of stuff. Then we've got like kind of like average cost, the US kind of prosthetic, and then we've got kind of like in lobby it's kind of in the middle between that US prosthetic and the low cost prosthetics. So we've got a medium cost prosthetic and that kind of like cost restricted area. Does 3D printing actually help you? Does it really play a role?
Speaker 3:Yes, it really does. I was quite hesitant for many years But I would say, going back to the idea of low cost versus high cost, especially when the Ukraine war started, many of the low cost organizations that do the low cost actions I was contacted by many hey, would you like to use our technology? We're gonna go into Ukraine to do this technology, But I advised against it because Ukraine is Europe And so they are not developing world. They know technology, they know yeah, they know high technology, They're doing their own research. They're expecting good quality prosthetics. So I think when you're deciding what technology to use for charity prosthetics, you need to understand their expectations and their environment and their culture, Because what you might do in Africa that would work really, really well there might not be accepted at all in Europe And may not be even legal to use in Europe, And so you have to understand a lot of considerations when choosing what technology to use. You have to use appropriate technology for that specific area.
Speaker 3:As far as your question about 3D printing, yes, it has greatly helped what I'm doing, Most of it with the Ukrainian project. That's where we kind of watched that the 3D printing was with Mission Ukraine And the main reason I decided to go with 3D printing was for the follow-up care, Because with 3D printing, when the patient leaves, we have a copy of their socket, And so in a few months, when they reduce in size, they need to replace it. They don't have to come all the way back to Latvia. I could make a few changes in the software, push print and have a new socket and send it to them in Ukraine. They're able to come to Latvia, they're welcome, But it wouldn't be necessary for them to come all the way back here for a new socket, And so 3D printing has been integral in our plan for Mission Ukraine because of this reason.
Speaker 2:So I'm really interested in this idea of like you can design a prosthetic in one part again of Brent in North Carolina, You can use components from Iceland, whatever, And you can print it out in a third country and even deliver it in a fourth country. And does that really help you? Or do you really think that one integrator operation, with like design and scanning everything in one place, is really a much better thing?
Speaker 3:No, i think this way is working. Of course it may not be the ideal way, but it's a way that I could get started. Brent came along and said hey, are you ready to start 3D printing? yet I had rejected him many times when he asked this, but finally it was a very good reason to convert over.
Speaker 3:We started the transition quite slowly. The first thing was, okay, get a good scanner. Then we've been doing a hybrid workflow where actually I still do everything with plaster by hand, traditional check sockets. Then when we get a good fit, i scan it and I send it to Brent to process in the software. Slowly this is improving, it's changing. I now have the software, which will get trained in that Eventually I will have my own printer to do test sockets For me. It's been a slow transition, but in the end, even from the very beginning, we have an MJF socket for the patient and a very quickly process. We do everything in-house up until the final scan of the test socket that works. Then within three days we have the MJF socket in-house. It definitely has. It slowed us down. If anything, we've been able to be more efficient once we got this hybrid workflow down and I'm excited in the near future we'll be even more efficient because I will be able to do a lot more of the design and processing here in Latvia with Brent's assistance.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's really cool. Do you think that that's also a model for everyone's prosthetics? You could see that that outsourcing, i think, could be really cost-efficient as well. If we're only talking about the business aspects of stuff, do you see that as a way forward as well?
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure, because at the very beginning I was thinking, oh, you have to have everything to even start, you have to have your own printer, you have to have your scanner, you have to have software. But I've proven that you don't. You can start very small and use what you know and then just slowly transition as you are able to and outsourcing it. I don't plan to ever have a MJF printer in my office One, it's too small, but also just the upkeep and the maintenance and all of that. I find that outsourcing it will be much more efficient for my setup. Then, even with the design, if you don't have the time to dedicate to learning a modifying software, there's people like Britt who are out there who can assist in that. There's so many options with digital technology, with prosthetics, that I think anyone can start at any point and you can have as little or as much of the technology and still make it work.
Speaker 2:Okay, That's exciting. Are there any digital tools more scanners, more printers that you would really like to have? Do you think that we'd be like, oh why, if I had that, that would really make everything much better.
Speaker 3:I'm waiting, waiting. soon I will have an FDM printer. It will be set from US here in Latvia. Hopefully by August we will have that. We will start making test sockets here and scanning the patient directly. I just recently was able to purchase the GeoMagic Freeform. I'm waiting for the haptic device to arrive in Latvia so I can start training on that more. Then I hope that Britt will come to Latvia soon and can help train me in person. Then my timeline is hoping by October, november I will be full digital and be able to do everything as 3D printing and digital that is appropriate for that patient.
Speaker 1:What was your turning point, katie? I mean, it was literally years that we talked about 3D printing and things of that nature For our listeners. For myself, I was very entrenched in our traditional fabrication and then made the move to digital. But for you, what was the tipping point of like hey, this is really something that I've got to check out.
Speaker 3:For me. I was quite scared because I had a bad experience with FDM printing. I was kind of no, no, no, it's not for me yet. But then the tipping point was really the Ukraine war. I saw, okay, i need to do something that will have a follow-up care component to it. 3d printing was that.
Speaker 3:I had experience in America with CADCAM and so I knew the advantages of having a digital copy of the socket. So the next step to that would be 3D printing. Also, i said, okay, britt, if you want me to do this, show me what the best technology 3D printing is. So you arranged to have a sample of an MGF socket sent to me and I was sold. I was like this is amazing. It looks so good, it looks very quality, it's lightweight, you can do anything.
Speaker 3:So that was the tipping point of I just saw the benefit of what it looks like, of the time that we could get it and just the help of Britt working with me to help me. He didn't just say, okay, you should do it, figure it out, but he's been there the whole way of giving assistance and advice and helping to process it, and so I think having someone like Britt that is there to help guide you, at least in the early stages, and give you advice and recommendations. For me that's been very, very helpful, knowing that I'm not in this all new world all by myself, but I have someone that has experience that can help me understand the process and the workflow.
Speaker 1:So having those parts in your hand, though, the multi-jet fusion parts, was that a big aha moment Like you're, like I can't believe this is 3D printed. Or can you take us through some of that, Because I know we're such tactile as far as in the profession. So I'm just you know, Yoris and I are on this journey of is there truly a tipping point for the whole field of orthotics and prosthetics for 3D printing? And that's why we're having a conversation with you, among other guests, And we're trying to find that time where it's that aha moment of like hey, is it something in your hands? Is it something that you saw? What was it that you're like you know what the multi-jet fusion, or powder-based fusion, makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for me it was having it in my hand because it was actually a copy of a prosthetic that we had made traditional thermoforming. And so having both of them side by side and seeing the quality of the MJF and the weight difference of the MJF and the octagon hexagon design on it, and just kind of like, wow, it's basically the same, but it is better. It's lighter weight, the edges are more smooth, the more yeah it was, i think, just comparing them side by side in my hand. And then it's only gotten even more aha moments as I get more in. And so we had Ukrainian soldiers that wanted like their logo on their prosthetic arm And so we had that imprinted and we painted it And I was like, oh, that's even better.
Speaker 3:And then we were doing another one. We offer it every other patient. So, okay, do you want a logo? Do you want it, as we call it, a tattoo? And so having that personalization that they are able to choose, they're able to choose colors, they're able to choose in prints or just so many options. I'm still trying to learn not to stay in the little box of my understanding and thinking by realizing there's basically 3D printing and design can do anything that you can imagine, and so that's. I'm still learning that, but I do notice that I'm to the point now of not thinking will this work for 3D printing? But it's more why would this not work for 3D printing? And so I kind of see that shift in my mindset, which is interesting to see.
Speaker 2:Wow, It's very, very exciting. I think I really really love your journey and how this is really bringing you advantages and stuff like that. So thank you so much for telling us all about this today, Katie.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for having me. It's exciting to do it and exciting to have someone like Brent and just to see the benefits that 3D printing is having on my patients and also my work here in Latvia.
Speaker 2:Perfect. Thank you so much. So onto the news section. So what prosthetic and orthotics news have we found? that we find interesting, and this section has been brought to you by Gespodo, that's G-E-S-P-O-D-O. What does Gespodo do, brent?
Speaker 1:Oh, so Gespodo is a Belgian company and they really are working on automating specifically foot orthoses. Right now is right in their wheelhouse. But, man, i've been seeing behind the curtain on some of the stuff that they're going to be able to do with AFOs and automation of that whole process And I really think it's a game changer for the field of O&P. It's going to allow clinicians to have a quick way to make an orthosis both foot orthoses and AFOs and eventually CAFOs exactly the way they want to make them in a short amount of time, and then do that decentralized production, like what Katie was talking about, and so I'm really excited about seeing where they go.
Speaker 2:Okay cool, sounds very good. So what news have we been brought today? Well, that is news created. It's based on a paper by Francesco Ibarita, who's from the Bio-Robotics Institute of the Health Interdisciplinary Center and the Department of Excellence in Robotics at Scuola Suporia Santana in Pisa in Italy. And he's not alone. There's a whole team there as well. There are people including some people from, i think, from EPFL in Lausanne in Switzerland, and what they've done is something quite curious, and the paper is a paper in science and it's called Restoration of Natural Thermal Sensation Upper Limm Amputies.
Speaker 2:Now, what they've done everyone will definitely hear is familiar with this kind of phantom limb feeling. Well, they've talked to patients, found patients with phantom thermal feeling. So they have feeling either in localized fashion or in a map of thermal feeling in a hand that is not there anymore. So what they did then is they tried to get them to, you know, fuel these phantom thermal sensations, and they are able to reliably and consistently feel those thermal sensations, which is really kind of crazy. And they then tried to make a device. It's like a little wearable device that you know they want to help people, you know, feel these feelings in a more reliable way. This is called the Mini Touch and it's still, like you know, very, very far away from commercialization, but it's still kind of a wearable device that could amplify these sensations. I don't know, like the heat sensation, it seems like it could be a lot safer, you know. But is it like something that people really really really ask about, brent, or worry about, or what do you think of this?
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting and I love anything that has to do with adding one of your senses back to you, especially through a prosthesis, and this idea of feeling the limb that is amputated is a real feeling. That it's called phantom, kind of like what they're saying a phantom feeling. All those nerves that still run to your brain are severed somewhere in your arm, and a lot of people don't think about that, but your body is then taking readings off of wherever those nerves end and you know it will give your brain something to process And I think it's pretty interesting. What they're doing is giving those nerves something to process.
Speaker 1:When it comes to thermal feeling And this idea of hot and cold, you know I don't know that I've had a patient be like, oh, i wish you know I could feel hot and cold, but I can also tell you patients that love having airflow or being able to regulate their temperature a little bit. So I think it's an interesting way to get information And I think it's another step in. You know, we had a deal on from Sionic and he was talking about the vibration feedback of like, hey, when you're getting this pinch grip you're, so you're getting your feedback through this vibration. So having, you know, a vibration along with this thermal sensor type of thing, you know, anything to get more feedback to your body to tell you what your prosthesis is doing, i think is going to be a win.
Speaker 2:Okay, i like that. I like that. That's really good. So I'm also excited about the fact that this is like using a small wearable device to convey this sensation. So imagine we all know how much more powerful fit bits have been getting these smart watches, fitness trackers generally, also just our Apple watch that a lot of people wear. So that technology is getting is being propelled by this whole wearables kind of thing. Accelerometers are now really cheap and and these devices can measure so much. So I would love to see more people working on. You know we're talking before about low cost things.
Speaker 2:Well, imagine you integrate this accelerometer into your prosthetic right, so you know, and you don't have to buy some really fancy thing. You just use an old, you know Apple watch or something you know. Imagine then you can learn over time how that thing's performing, or you could actually track how active the patient is, how many times a day that actually make a step or do something. Imagine just how powerful the things like fitness trackers will become. Also, like you know, imagine a fitness tracker five years from now. It's going to be crazy what that thing is going to be able to do. You know that we got blood pressure monitoring, heat, all this kind of stuff sleep. So imagine if you put that just through a prosthetic device and kind of, like you know, upgrade that whole experience and get much more tracking. I think that'd be really exciting.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely. And I think the other thing is it's going to tell us, as these sensors get better and better, it's going to tell us and we're going to get data, kind of like what we were talking to David Boone about about the fit of the device, And maybe one day we'll have enough data to actually quantify what makes a good fit. And wouldn't that be wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. Or rather than somebody saying like I'm kind of active, you could actually look at the forces or the kind of pressures or the kind of data day, how many steps they take and how many should they do, you know, and find out that you know, somebody's definition of kind of active could be a lot different. in some guy just 20,000 steps a day and runs up and down stairs, so yeah, I think that could be really anything quantifiable is of course very wonderful.
Speaker 1:Anyway, this is great.
Speaker 2:So thanks to GuestPoto there for that sponsoring our news. So I think that's really exciting news. It's something new I didn't expect at all. So that's always good And, yeah, thanks for sponsoring that, guys, and thank you for listening. This is another episode of the prosthetics and orthotics podcast with Brent Wright and yours Putes. Have a great day.
