From Green Beret to Wellness Advocate: Dan Kronz's Journey

In this interview with Dan Kronz, a former Green Beret, he shares his journey through military service, personal struggles, and his current work in mental health and resilience for first responders. Discover practical tools and mental models to enhance well-being and manage stress effectively.

Take Aways:

• Prioritizing mental health and resilience in high-stress professions is vital
• Practical tools for managing stress and anxiety are crucial 
• The importance of holistic wellness including physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health is a must in high-stress professions

Dan Kronz:

dan@sharpperformance.tech

Transcript

Vernon Phillips (00:03.408)

All right, welcome back to Critical Aspects of Law Enforcement. I'm your host, Barney Phillips. And today on the show, we have Dan Kronz. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to just turn it over to him. I'm let him explain just who he is, kind of give a little rundown on his background, kind of what he's done in the past and then what he's doing now. So Dan, I want to just turn it over you, man. I appreciate you coming on.

Dan Kronz (00:26.446)

Thanks, Vern. I appreciate it, man. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm glad we finally got this going. So my name is Dan, Dan Krons. I was a former Green Beret in 7 Special Forces Group.

I served for almost 15 years total, multiple combat deployments to Afghanistan. I also did some deployments down to South America doing counter-narco terrorism. But the majority of my career was combat operations in Afghanistan. Sadly, I medically retired in 2024. Left the military before I was ready to. I had the aspirations. thought...

I thought I was going to be, you know, four star general. I really did. And so, you know, a mix of the fall of Afghanistan and just watching our country pull out coupled with what I was going through personally and physically and in my career shortly. And so that was a rough time being removed from a tribe that I thought I was going to be at for a very long time. And going through a little bit of an identity crisis was a harder feat than I was ready for, but an area that really turned my life around and kind of saved it per se is the wellness community. And it started with taking care of myself and it's something I became very passionate about. And kind of how, why we're talking today is I started working for an organization called Sharp Performance. They are a cognitive performance coaching platform for high risk professionals. And in short,

We took the lessons learned from being in our country's longest war, 20 years of sustained combat operations. For example, I've lost more friends, more men that I've served with in combat operations, exchanging lead down range with Taliban. I lost more to suicide than I did in combat.

Dan Kronz (02:12.852)

And we started looking at, know, what are the reasons for that? You we look at things like PTSD and what the VA is doing. I'm not here to talk about any of that, but we kind of found some secret sauce and we saw another community that's struggling very deeply right now. And that's the first responder community. I mean, it's no secret across the board with police and fire more service members die by suicide than in line of duty deaths. And so it's become our company's mission to bring a service that is absolutely needed and required. And we found like we found something really special. And I know that's how you and I first met. And that's why I'm here doing this. But that's the quick intro on me.

Vernon Phillips (02:45.475)

Yeah.

Vernon Phillips (02:51.503)

Yeah, and there's a lot there. I mean, we can, we could pull apart and draw and, you know, just kind of dive into, but, um, I mean, obviously you've got a lot of, you know, experience and a lot to draw from, but when you kind of look at, you know, your time in the military and then also what you're doing now, you know, how did you, um, you know, how did you just keep yourself balanced? Like, you know, what did you do to just keep yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually just, you know, grounded and is dialed in. Because that's a big thing, right? Is making sure that we're balanced individuals, right? We want to operate at our best and highest capacity. And to do that, we've got to make sure that we're investing in all those areas. So it wasn't that you were doing that kept you dialed in.

Dan Kronz (03:40.398)

I'm going to start with while on the job. think some things I did very well when I was active duty and an operator and extremely busy in that realm. It goes with taking care of yourself. What you put in is going to come out. And so I think initially what I did a really good job at was physical, mean, staying physically fit, eating healthy, focusing on sleep, even things simple like hydration. But that's only going to take you to a certain point. At my prime, mean, dude, I was a physical specimen. You know what I mean? I was like, rucking 20 miles, running 20 miles, doing multiple workouts a day. That was not a problem. What I was doing

Vernon Phillips (04:22.037)

Yeah, I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna get there one day.

Yeah, I probably not gonna have that that body until until I go to heaven right and then you know I get my get my new body and I'll be like this is what this looks like

Dan Kronz (04:36.178)

Exactly. But that only takes you so far, man. I think to talk about the things that I didn't do well, I didn't take care of this thing right here. I didn't take care of my mental health. I was doing nothing proactively. I wasn't doing things to push into my parasympathetic nervous system. I wasn't doing things to take care of my spirit, my soul, my body. And what happened to me is I broke.

Vernon Phillips (04:39.469)

Yeah.

Dan Kronz (05:00.566)

I hit rock bottom, losing, not only did I lose my military career, shortly thereafter I lost my family. I went through a pretty, I went through a divorce. I have two young boys and when I lost my foundation, that's when I started to crack. And thankfully I had the right resources and the right people in place to kind of help me turn that around. So first and foremost having...

Having a solid group of individual, a tribe who can be there for you, understand what you're going through and be a support system, that is one of the most important things that I've found to keep me afloat. The next piece is taking care of your nervous system. And it's simple things. It's waking up in the morning and first thing, not getting on my phone. I'll spend the first part of my morning doing quiet time.

And that looks different for different people. Quiet time, you could be spending time in the Word with whoever that is for you, your Lord and Savior. It could also be just spending quiet time off a screen, putting earbuds in and doing some mindfulness and meditation.

I have learned that that has become my cornerstone and my foundation for living a lower level stress and anxiety lifestyle. And just like anything else, it's thing it's over time. Like you don't start running a marathon by doing long, long distance runs. You start with doing short runs and building up. And now that I'm on the backend of things, that's what I see. I've seen the second and third order effects of talking with the right people and getting sound advice, taking care of myself and a diet.

Vernon Phillips (06:07.416)

Yeah.

Dan Kronz (06:30.508)

diet way and a physical way by working out, but more importantly, it's been taking care of this thing and doing those right steps on a daily basis. you, mean, it's, it's over time. You look back a year later, you're like, my gosh, like I can manage stress. can manage adversity. can manage hardship in a much better way than I was ever able to before. And so it's, it, it's absolutely holistic, for sure, for sure.

Vernon Phillips (06:55.755)

Yeah, I mean, think making sure that you're investing in yourself and taking that time is key. mean, so you used a couple of big words, right? Parasympathetic nervous system. mean, and so I talk about that sometimes when I talk and do trainings and stuff, but it's like, you know, probably just like in the military, in law enforcement.

They're never taught how to engage their parasympathetic nervous system. And for a profession where you spend so much of your time amped up, right, in that sympathetic state where you're just always going, going, going, it's like, you know, it dialed up. so to learn how to self-regulate and to learn how to tap into your parasympathetic nervousness, right, to get yourself back to, you know, a baseline, you know, just to get yourself into some recovery. It's just something that, you know, we haven't really done a great job at teaching those coming into the profession. I mean, it's getting better. You know, and I'm sure you probably saw that a little bit in the military too.

Dan Kronz (08:10.156)

Yes. And on that knowledge is power. And I truly believe that. And to talk a little bit more about the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system for any of the listeners who might not be aware is your brain is lazy. Your brain is a lazy piece of equipment sometimes. And normal people kind of operate right here in the middle. You know, there's the sympathetic over here and there's the parasympathetic. And what happens to people like me and you, whether you're a police officer, firefighter, military, is you have to operate in the sympathetic so many times. Being on a call, getting off a call, you know, fire alarm goes off, getting the truck out of the truck on a mission, not. And so what ends up happening is it's easier for your body just to in that elevated state. When you wake up in the morning, what's harder for your brain is to go full parasympathetic and then something happens, sympathetic back to the parasympathetic. So the way I was starting to wake up is I would wake up before my alarm. I have so much anxiety. need to, like, I gotta get, I gotta get dressed. I gotta get changed. I gotta shave. I gotta get my uniform on. I gotta get going. have to like, everything is so important taking that time to slow down just for a few minutes every day. And like I said before, inches make miles sort of thing. And it's something that I've learned the importance of. And it's mitigated my stress, my anxiety to the point where when I did retire, I was going through some hardships and

Trying to do therapy in the right things and got on SSRIs and other medication to try to help mitigate that. And a few years later, I'm not on anything. I take no medication. I'm actually out of therapy right now. What I use is a coaching service. It's another person that I can kind of meet with. But then more importantly are all the skills and tools that I use to kind of mitigate the nervous system that has been taxed to the extreme.

Vernon Phillips (10:05.163)

Yeah, I mean, that's important. So, I mean, just to hear you utilizing that stuff now, where you're at, but, you know, if you don't mind, I'm going to kind of, you know, press a little bit. So when you, when you, when you got out of the military, I know you said that was like, you know, that was a rough time and there's a lot of things that were going on. You know, if you're willing to, can you kind of walk us through a little bit of that of like how you, you know, you know, what are some of the things that you did to get you to where you're at now mean, you know, to kind of get you on the other side of that, right? Because there's a lot of people that are dealing with something that where they're, you know, they're, having a hard time with a particular, you know, maybe it's a call for service or maybe it's just a bunch of just built up calls. And they're just like, man, I don't know if I can ever get beyond this, right? How do I get past this? So

Dan Kronz (10:55.916)

Yeah, no, great, great question. And I think the first one is going to be a little bit more personal. It might not relate to everybody, but for me, a big one was getting sober. And I say that because you, know you're very aware of this, the people you work with, it is a bandaid and it is a tool that we utilize to mitigate stress, help with sleep, overcome the problems that we're going through. And for me, I leaned very hard into the bottle. I'm coming up on four years sober. My sobriety dates June 11th and alcohol was definitely my poison. But it's natural thing. Booze is a big thing in your community and the police. It is huge within my community, special operations.

And like I said, it was a bandaid. was something I would use to help me go to sleep, to calm things down, to have some fun. But when you're in a profession like you and me are, and you have demons that you haven't worked through, it can end up becoming a significant problem. And even with sleep, like you're not having well-rested sleep. You're not taking care of your nervous system. And so for me, getting sober was absolutely the most important thing that I could have done. I don't think that I would be in the same state that I am now if I was continuing to drink. But again, what I'm not doing is condemning drinking or saying that you can't do it. But moderation for a lot of us A type personalities is a very hard thing to manage. am still, you know, that saying like anything worth doing is worth overdoing. That's something I have be very cocky, you know, even working out. I can overdo in that aspect.

Vernon Phillips (12:26.717)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Kronz (12:31.246)

So for me, first and foremost was that, and then it's prioritizing the little things. I think a lot of people with our backgrounds, we don't prioritize sleep.

That's another big one. mean, that is when your body is literally resetting. Your body is changing its growth hormones. It's healing itself. And we stay up late. We get up early. We don't prioritize that. And so that that wasn't my number two was prioritizing my sleep. And then things that come along with that when you get sober and you're sleeping well, taking care of your physical, the body getting outside. When I was going through my retirement, I was involved in a couple of severe blasts, a lot of wear and tear in the body. So when I started

Vernon Phillips (12:42.985)

Yeah.

Dan Kronz (13:11.12)

going through retirement. had my third shoulder surgery. I had bilateral knee surgery, both my knees done. I had four cervical spine epidurals. I probably need spine surgery.

I didn't take care of myself. And it's little things like not going on a walk, not getting outside and getting sun, not getting the body moving. And you can easily find yourself in a state that you would never think that you would be in. Like I was, I went from being a high optimized operating green beret to a couch potato that sleeping in, getting up whenever staying up super late, not doing anything. And it's, it's little things getting out and getting some sun. do morning walks. go to the gym 30 minutes a day, something simple to get the body moving. That's all the physical stuff. I cannot overemphasize the importance of finding somebody that you trust, somebody who is vetted. I say vetted because you might have trust with that individual, but what is their background? What is their training? What is the ability to provide you with that advice? There is no replacement for talk therapy.

Vernon Phillips (14:08.892)

Yeah.

Dan Kronz (14:15.726)

I put it in quotes because what I'm not saying is that you need to talk to a necessarily licensed professional or clinician, but the stuff that we do, the stuff that we see, the things that we go through, and even more so being a man. Nothing against the women, but we have this macho, I got to be the alpha male, I'm off. That bravado talking to somebody. And for me, I had a man in my life by the name of Michael Wise, former Green Beret, and then I work with now Brendan Dowling, former Navy SEAL. There is something about talking to an individual who has been through similar things that I've been through.

And having it be normalized like yeah, dan, of course you get angry when x y and z happens like look at what you did in the past like Look what you did for the last 15 years, dude. Everything you're explaining to me is completely normal It's normal to feel sad. It's normal to feel upset. It's normal to feel depressed or anxious staying in those states That's a different story so finding an individual that is well trusted and wise in that area cannot be replaced That is probably the most important thing I did because the things that I got from that individual were the things that I just shared beforehand, getting sober. I got sober because of Mike Wise, getting better sleep, getting better nutrition, getting out there and moving around. Those are the things that came from talking to somebody else. And for me, I'm not saying this is everybody. Sometimes one of the areas I have with therapy is the person on the other end doesn't necessarily get it. There is a time and a place for therapy. I've used therapy. I still stay in touch with my therapist but there is something about lived experience. And I know that you fundamentally understand that just from the roles and responsibilities you've had and what you do now. Lastly, is finding an outlet. And I think there's outlets in many facets. It can be, I skydive. That's my main, that's how I, on the weekends, man, that's where you find me most of the time is jumping out of planes.

Dan Kronz (16:13.538)

But for the day-to-day stuff outside of working out, going back to that mindfulness and meditation, there is science backed, there's proof in the pudding, whether it's getting up in the morning and doing some box breathing, getting up in the morning and doing some Wemhoff breathing, getting up in the morning and doing a 15 minute meditation, or spending time, I've gotten big into stoicism. And so what I do in the morning is I wake up and I do a stoicism journal.

Vernon Phillips (16:21.223)

Dang it.

Dan Kronz (16:38.542)

The last one, especially if you're starting out and you're new to this stuff, gratefulness. I can't explain it. I'm not a doctor, but there is something that chemically changes in your brain when you focus on gratefulness. And so the first thing I did is I got an app. It's free. It's called three good things. And once a day you get in there and you write three good things that you're grateful for. The more that I've done it, the more that I've learned, there's something about putting it down on paper and writing it out.

Vernon Phillips (17:07.079)

Thank

Dan Kronz (17:08.556)

what that is, but there's something about writing it out on paper. And so for me, before I go to bed every night, I just write three things that I'm grateful for. And it can be as simple as like, honestly, one of them is probably going to be this. I'm grateful for the friendship that I developed with Vern, which then allowed me to get on a platform and talk on a podcast and talk about something that's extremely important to me. can be that simple. It doesn't have to be this grandiose thing. But I say that because it's all too often in our profession, we see rough stuff. see dead kids. We see

Vernon Phillips (17:29.436)

Yeah.

Dan Kronz (17:38.428)

trauma, we see violence, we see things that most people shouldn't see, and that's not normal. And you can get in a very negative state and find yourself like everything sucks, nothing's good, I'm not happy. And so by focusing on that gratefulness has done wonders for me. And so I think I answered the question pretty in depth there.

Vernon Phillips (17:58.279)

Yeah, no, that's awesome. No, I appreciate it. Because all that's important things to me, because, you know, all of those things that you're talking about are, like you already said, are the things that you can see in the first responder community as well. You know, you can see trying to drink the demons away, right? It's just one, you know, one glass of whiskey or bourbon or whatever it is, whatever your choice is, right another one, another one, it's like, I just gotta get to where I don't see this face anymore, right? Every time I close my eyes, I see this face, or I see this, and it's like, and like you brought up, it's like, okay, that might help you get three, four hours of sleep, but it's not good sleep, right? Because what happens when you do that is you wake up three or four hours later, and you're like, oh, all right.

Dan Kronz (18:46.05)

Yes.

Vernon Phillips (18:54.662)

I guess I'm up now. You're not getting that good, restful, regenerative sleep because that's vital, like you said, to your body and your mind. And I'll tell you right now that for me, that's probably an area that I definitely could do better in, prioritizing sleep better. Just like everybody else, you're busy, work, family, just.

Dan Kronz (18:56.568)

Yep.

Vernon Phillips (19:20.007)

You get home and by the time you kind of go through all the routines, the nightly routines that you have, and you finally get ready to go to bed, you're like, man, okay, so we're pushing 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock, one o'clock, depending on what's going on. then my alarm's getting ready to go off in five hours. So it's that perpetual cycle. eventually that's going to catch up with you you're going to wear your body down.

And then just practice and some of those other things you're talking about. Getting yourself out of that negative suck, right? That negative suck hole that if you just stay in that, it'll just perpetuate and you'll just continue to revolve around what you perceive as all the crap in your life, right? And all the bad. practicing, you know, what you're grateful for, know, this practice of that gratitude, right? Like writing those things out, putting them on paper, because then you start to realize like, okay, it's not as bad as I make it out to be. You know, and the thing is I just had a conversation, you know, with a friend of mine just several weeks ago, like we were at breakfast and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go, I gotta go down to this meeting and I know if I wanna go. It's just like, kind of like, I'm like.

It's probably gonna be, no, know, it's gonna be a waste of my time. I gotta drive, you know, X amount. then, you know, long story short, afterwards I'm like, man, I'm really glad I went because, you know, I got to meet some really cool people, hear some really cool stories and make some really good connections. And, you know, I texted him and I told him, said, hey man, this is, know, I met this guy, blah, blah, and he's like, see, he's like, sometimes, you know, things aren't as bad as we make them out to be. And that's what we do, like, you know, like,

Some of these people that do that, like to call them catastrophizers, right? And first time I used that word, my wife's like, that's not a word. I'm like, it's a word. I'm like, and I've used it in a paper, you know, during my doctoral studies and she's like, that's not a word. I'm like, it's a word, right? It's, you know, just this, everything is a huge deal. Everything's worst case scenario. Everything is, you know, suck, suck, suck, right? And it's like, okay, you can find one thing.

Dan Kronz (21:39.726)

Thanks

Vernon Phillips (21:45.637)

Right? So just if you're somebody, you know, that's listening, you know, all five of you, right? That and you've that's where you find yourself and you find yourself in this area where like you're just constantly focusing on the negative, right? You're constantly focused on me. I always get stuck with these calls or why, you know, why do I always have the supervisors? It's just on me, on me, on me. Why do I always get this crap assignment? You know, I want to challenge you to find one.

Dan Kronz (21:52.397)

Hahaha

Vernon Phillips (22:14.913)

Just one thing we're not even gonna make you do you the full-on three day and Dan thing, right? We're gonna just just find one thing right that you can be grateful for And it could be as simple as man. You know what today. I actually got a good cup of coffee from the gas station. I Mean it could be something as simple as that like, you know Because sometimes you you take a gamble. Sometimes they gas station coffee could be good. It could be bad

Dan Kronz (22:20.376)

you

Dan Kronz (22:32.877)

Right.

Vernon Phillips (22:44.812)

Right? so something as simple as that, but the more that you invest that, you know, that optimism in your life, right? I mean, that's, that's just that fuel for resilience because then every situation is not, you're not just always focusing on like, okay, hey, you know what? I'm going to draw one good thing out of this, out of this, this call.

I'm gonna draw one good thing for your world out of this op and like, man, it sucked and it went, did not go the way we wanted it to, but let me draw one good thing out of it. And then that doesn't keep you in that just constant state of negativity. mean, you probably dealt with it with teammates and people in first responder world deal with it with their coworkers or their zone partners or if they worked attention, their pod partners and things like that. It's like, it gets old, right? Working with that person that's just in that perpetual state of just suck, right? I mean, there's no other better, there's no other word to put it. like, they're the Eeyore. It's like, why bother, right? It's just, you I mean, and it's like, and I'm sure you've experienced that and you and I both probably been that person at one point or another.

Dan Kronz (24:02.658)

Yeah. Yep.

Vernon Phillips (24:11.268)

Right? So it's like, you know, what is your suggestion? If there's somebody that, you know, that's who they're, that's who they're dealing with, right? That's their, their supervisor, their, their zone partner, their, you know, just, you know, their, their buddy, whoever it is, right? What would you suggest? How would you suggest just kind of plugging back into them to get them out of that?

Dan Kronz (24:11.416)

percent.

Dan Kronz (24:32.065)

Yeah, as silly as it sounds, first, it's the power of positive thinking. It really is. mean, the whole time you were talking, that's one of the things I was thinking about, how easy it is to walk outside and be like, man, this sucks. And the more that you see negative, you're going to continue to see negative. It's just science. And so my encouragement to somebody like that is be that positive person for that individual. I know that when my buddies are going through a hard time like, man, this sucks or this sucks. Provide them with a little bit of silver lining. Yeah, man, but dude, at least you get to see your kids. get like, dude, my kids don't live with me. They live with their mom.

But I get to see him on the weekends and I get, I get them all summer. get them every spring break. get them Thanksgiving. I get them Christmas. Like I get to see my kids every holiday when I'm not working. Do know how great that is? And that is a positive way instead of being, I don't get to see my kids. They don't live with me. I don't get to see them during the week. I don't get to see them when they come home from school. I miss most of their sports games, whatever it is. That's going to put me in a negative place by just thinking about that. And kind of circling back a little bit when you were talking about the mindfulness stuff, do want to get back into it. I would encourage them, that person. The reason I keep going back to mindfulness is how often do we operate on autopilot? You wake up, you know exactly where your phone is. You walk out, you go to the counter, you know where your coffee is, you press start, you grab the remote, the TV, you turn it on. Everything you do is mind, it's mindless. You're just on autopilot and taking the time to slow down and be intentional.

Vernon Phillips (26:07.587)

Yeah.

Dan Kronz (26:11.82)

When you take the time to slow down and be intentional, stop and smell the roses, that's going to make you appreciate things more. So those people that are in that negative space, slowing down just a little bit can make a ton of change. And for me, one of the things that I got into, I've fallen out of it a little bit in the last year or so, but what helped me slow down and get a little bit more intentional about what I was doing was photography.

And so when I talk about finding outlets and other things, like, yes, skydiving is great and it hits my dopamine, serotonin. But one thing that was really good for me with the photography was instead of looking at the tree, I'm looking at the ants crawling down the tree that are carrying the leaves and I can see the veins in the leaves and where they're going in the path.

Vernon Phillips (26:36.356)

Good.

Vernon Phillips (26:42.242)

Yeah.

Dan Kronz (26:57.046)

taking that moment to slow down and then be like, wow, dude, that's incredible. This is absolutely incredible what I'm looking at right now. And I can capture a picture of this that's unique to me. And so that's going to make you appreciate things more. And when you can start appreciating things in a better manner, you're going to start thinking about things more positively. And it sounds easy. So for any listeners, the five listeners we have,

Vernon Phillips (27:16.494)

Yeah.

Dan Kronz (27:23.89)

If you're not in that headspace and you are in that negative space, I've been there. I've had weeks where I can't find something positive. You know what I mean? Like depending on where you're at in life, that can be an extremely challenging thing. And so that's I go back. It's these little changes, man. It's these little, little changes that make such a big difference.

Vernon Phillips (27:45.443)

Yeah, mean, and just like you, I mean, I've been there before where I'm just like, man, like super, like super down on yourself and just like, man, like you just, we are, you know, they always say like, you're your own worst critic. And you absolutely like, that absolutely is true. I mean, like there'll be some times where like, you know, stuff will go, you know, go on in my life. And I'm just like, bam, like just absolutely dogging myself, right? And you know,

Dan Kronz (28:00.238)

Yeah.

Vernon Phillips (28:13.443)

And sometimes my wife will have to be like, she'll gut check me and be like, what are you doing? Why do you talk to yourself that way? And it kind of makes you have to step back and be like, what way? Because you can do it so often and...

So like, know, so often that it just becomes like a default, right? To where you mess up and you're automatically, you know, like, man, like you, you're like, why are you so stupid? Like, why are you so stupid? Like what is wrong with you? Like, you know, and then it just spirals from there. You're like, man, you're always messing with this or what you're always doing. And then you're, you're, you're throwing out the always, right? You always do this, man. Every time this is what you do. And it's like, we start doing this at the, start throwing out absolutes and it's like,

Dan Kronz (28:45.762)

Yeah, yeah.

Dan Kronz (28:52.492)

Yeah.

Dan Kronz (29:03.597)

Yes.

Vernon Phillips (29:12.258)

Okay, dial it back, right? And it's like, okay, yep, messed up, a mistake. What do I need to do to not make that mistake moving forward? like you said, I sometimes you could just be, man, like just in a rut. I mean, just a couple of weeks ago, like I was just like, man, like I was just in a rut. I'm like, what in the world? I'm like, what the heck is wrong with me? Like, you know, come on, like to get yourself.

You know, get yourself in gear and, know, and, and then you kind of start falling back on these old patterns where, you know, especially in this, in this profession, you always hear, Hey, just, you know, suck it up. You know, right. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. You know, I've even heard, Hey, you know, we don't get mental health days. And it's like, you know, sometimes, sometimes there is, there is the need, right. To have that, that old school mentality just kind of come in and say, okay stand up, stop, but then there's also times where it's more than that, right? Other things need to take place, other steps need to happen before you can kind of get yourself to that point where you can talk to yourself and say, right, hey, enough, all right, but let's get moving, let's get up, dust ourselves off, it's a new day, right? You know the routine, you know what you need to do, put it in practice. And that's why I'm...

What my wife will do for me is like when I, you know, kind of when I get stressed or I kind of get those moments, she'll be like, Hey, what do need to do? Like, you know what you need to do? What do you need to go take a walk? You need to go jump in the cold plunge. You need to sit in the hot box. the hot box is what we call our infrared sauna. it's just easier to say hot box than to try to teach our little, our little dudes, Hey, you know, it's an infrared sauna. So the big, you guys go into the hot box, you know? and

Dan Kronz (30:48.387)

Yeah.

Dan Kronz (30:57.599)

yeah.

Vernon Phillips (31:09.761)

Yeah, so like there's just things that I'll do on a regular basis. I mean, like even the last like couple of weeks, you know, I've gotten back out of the habit of going out every morning and you know, doing five minutes in the cold plunge. Um, just, mean, like you go out and you know, I'll just, I'll just put my, you know, put my, my AirPods, AirPods, AirPods in, um, you know, and I've got a, uh, I've got a clip that I, um, screenshot and it's a, it's just, a bunch of Viktor Frankl quotes for like five minutes, right? And it just cycles through that and I'll turn that thing on and I'll get down in there and I'll just, right? Just control my breathing, let that thing play through, get out. it's like, man, as soon as you get in, I'm sure you're familiar with cold plunge and you probably do it. It's like, man, it's like something, it's like there's a switch, there's a dial in your brain and it just goes.

It's like somebody turns up the dimmer, right? It's like, bam. And that's why I love it. If I don't get out there and do it, I'll just take cold showers every day, right?

Dan Kronz (32:12.172)

Yeah.

Dan Kronz (32:20.16)

It's the things you can do for your cardiovascular system as well.

Vernon Phillips (32:23.329)

Yeah. So, you know, even though I haven't been going out there and getting in that every morning, like I still do, I still do the cold showers. Just because, you know, for one, it's just, good. builds up your resilience, right? It's good for your immune system. It boosts your metabolism. It, you know, it's just good overall for your body. It helps you, helps you wake up in the morning, helps your, you your mind kind of just brighten up. But, you know, there's some people that will make not a chance.

Dan Kronz (32:51.726)

I

Vernon Phillips (32:51.905)

They will not do it at all. But for me, that's just one of those things that I kind of leaned into that I really enjoyed just like the hotbox. I when I really started diving into myself a couple years ago, like, what are some of these things I can do? What are some of these modalities I can practically put in place? I was going to a holistic medical practice where they had the cold plunge and they had brain tap and they had these little things. So it's like,

After I did that for about a year, was like, you know what? We should invest in our own infrared sauna. we looked and we found a good deal. we've been putting that to use. pretty much, we use it almost every night in my house. There's a couple nights, just because of things, we don't get into it. But when I get home, we change our clothes, we get out in the garage, we do a workout, and then we finish up with the you know, with the hotbox. and it's just, man, it's just part of, part of the routine. and when you get out of that, then I, I've also noticed that my, you know, my endurance to doing, you know, 30, 40 minutes in the hotbox reduces, right? My ability to sit in the cold plunge for five minutes significantly reduces when you, you, when you kind of remove that for a time period.

Man, you get in the hot box and it's like 140 degrees and you're like, how long have I been in here? Like, you know, and you're like, man, I've been in here five minutes. You know, it's like, I used to sit in there for 50 minutes, right? and it just used to be my time where the one at the, the, the health practice was larger, right? It was like a, it was a, I think it was a four person so I could go in there and I could lay, I could lay down on the thing on the bench and man, I'd be

Dan Kronz (34:26.943)

Yeah.

Vernon Phillips (34:49.832)

I doze off for a good 30 minutes. So the one we got as a two person, mean, so, you know, it's comfortable, but you get out of that practice. It's like the cold punch, you go get in and you're like, you're just trying to do 30 seconds. So, but then once you get back into it, man, you just prolong that, you know, that time, that ability to withstand that. So it's just, man, it's just doing things like that.

Dan Kronz (34:51.862)

Hahaha

Vernon Phillips (35:18.695)

really help to keep you regulated for sure.

Dan Kronz (35:20.938)

It does. I know for me, again, it's that knowledge. And part of it is that your autonomic nervous system, it's autonomic, automatic. You can't control it. Right. And you talking made me think of it. It's that's why I really anchor on breathing. It's your, the breath is really, you can't control your perspiration. You can't control your heart rate. And even when you're in the cold tub and it sucks and you're not doing good by anchoring on your breath.

Vernon Phillips (35:46.344)

Yep.

Dan Kronz (35:49.024)

Even like you're going through stress, traffic, whatever, stopping and doing a few breaths is how you can get your autonomic nervous system to go down. And when you can learn that skill and tool, you can use it in the hot box. You can use it in the cold plunge. You can use it when you're frustrated with your partner. You can use it when you're frustrated with dealing with somebody on the street by

Vernon Phillips (36:09.789)

Yep. I think breath work is the most underrated modality that we do not teach first responders, cops, firefighters. What is a trade craft secret of special operations individuals?

Dan Kronz (36:34.206)

I don't know. What is it? yeah. mean, dude, yes. Like, so where, where I learned it is, I was very fortunate when I first got to the, to the eight teams in special ops, they sent me to free dive. And for those of you that don't know free dive, you go down to pass level one, you have to go down to 66 feet, touch the kettlebell and go up. And before that, I could probably hold my breath for like 30 seconds.

Vernon Phillips (36:35.539)

What? Breathwork, right?

Yeah.

Dan Kronz (36:59.366)

And in one week doing a free dive course, I got my breath hold to two and a half minutes underwater. there is being able to control your breath is a game changer for special operators. And I wish something that was taught more to our first responders.

Vernon Phillips (37:14.898)

Yeah, I mean, you but before you probably went into a high risk op, what was something you guys were automatically doing by default? You were probably automatically doing some type of breath work, right? Whether it was box breathing, whether it was, you know, long, long short exhale, whatever it was, you were probably already doing that and getting ready to go in there to, to get yourself in a right state of mind, to be able to concentrate on the mission at hand and take care of what you need to take care of.

Dan Kronz (37:42.734)

the thing about stress shoot. when you get a guy to do a bunch of pushups, sit ups, do some jumping jacks, get them to shoot. I'm learning how to get that, you'll be a better shooter. That's literally the stress shooting. And if you can bring that into your personal life, it literally does the same things. They're all tied together.

Vernon Phillips (37:50.496)

yeah!

Vernon Phillips (38:02.962)

Yeah, yeah, mean, so, you know, some of the stuff I teach, you know, I'm like, hey, look, box breathing, simple. I mean, it's simple. It's, if you can't do it yourself, there's all kinds, you can find an app, you can find a YouTube video, but I mean, it's pretty simple to start getting yourself to do box breathing. It'll take a little bit to get used to, right, to start going through the cycle, but once you start doing it and you and you just start integrating that into your daily life, you'll find yourself doing it by default. I always tell them, say, hey, look, anchor it to something. So as soon as you leave for work in the morning and you get in your cruiser and you click your seatbelt, do a series of box breathing. Right? The same thing when you get home to try to, you know, kind of self-regulate before you can get out of the car. As soon as you unclick your seatbelt, do a series of box breathing, right? Or I say, hey, when you go in and you start taking off your uniform and your duty belt and all that and you start taking, you know, take your gun out, it in the safe and you start going through all your stuff. Every time you take off an article of the job, do a series of box breathing, right? Because for one, you're anchoring it to what you're doing, but the other thing is you're physically tying your breathing to I'm shedding my job for the day, right? I'm no longer.

Dan Kronz (39:09.826)

breath.

Vernon Phillips (39:30.46)

deputy so-and-so, I'm no longer officer so-and-so, I'm no longer operator so-and-so, hey, I'm getting myself back into where I can engage my family, my friends, those that are around me because the first group of people that we crap on is our support network at home. Everything you bring in, you dump it on them, or you come in and you're shut down, you're stonewalled, you're checked out.

Dan Kronz (39:47.096)

Yep. There is.

Vernon Phillips (39:58.273)

And that translates to them as, what did I do? Right? Must be me. I know that he's at work all day talking, engaging and everything. But what they don't know is it could be the fact that you just did CPR on a three year old. Right? So figuring out a way to self-regulate before you cross that threshold, like that is one of the biggest things that we need to be teaching. Teaching our people. Absolutely. mean, like you've got to...

Dan Kronz (40:22.796)

Bye,

Vernon Phillips (40:26.493)

You've got to plug that in because we are, I mean, in the first responder community, mean, families are just getting destroyed because people are not, they're not self-regulating and they're not communicating. Right? And that's a huge thing. don't, you're, they don't need to know everything that happened, right? They don't need to go in and they don't need a detailed timeline of everything you did that day. Right? Because you don't want to, you don't want to, you know,

Dan Kronz (40:42.69)

Yes.

Vernon Phillips (40:56.249)

Vicarious trauma, right? You don't want to give them that secondary trauma, but They just want to know something they just want some type of conversation some type of interaction some type of communication like a Phone call or text on the way home. Hey There's a pretty rough day when I get me look I get home just give me give me five minutes. Give me ten minutes just to kind of Self-regulate and then let me jump in right so but that doesn't happen

Dan Kronz (40:58.413)

Yeah.

Vernon Phillips (41:25.65)

It's like.

Dan Kronz (41:25.838)

No, it doesn't. to kind of jump in here is anybody in a high risk profession, especially if you're new, everything you just said is what kind of spurred this, but it's preventative. People need to learn how to do these skills way, way before then. And the analogy I use, I think I even used this one with you when we were on the phone at one point, is nowhere else in health community are we reactive.

We're proactive everywhere else. Like for example, I bet everybody got up this morning and brushed their teeth. Floss, use mouthwash. You're going to see your dentist a couple of times this year. You're going to brush your teeth again before going to bed. Proactive oral hygiene before things get bad so things don't get bad.

For some reason, we don't treat the strongest tool in our body that same way. And if anybody should be doing it, it's first responders. My understanding is first responders see more traumatic events in one year than most people do in a lifetime. And there's something called your allostatic load, which I'm sure you're familiar with, but it's the cumulative wear and tear on the body and brain caused by chronic stress and repeated activation on the body's stress response and nervous system. And that's why the allostatic load is extremely high in combat veterans, first responders and high stress roles. And so that context actually explains PTSD burnout and recovery. And so, mean, you know, one of the reasons why I'm working for the company that I do is

All the things that I just talked about is what Sharp Performance does. Like a little bit of a shameless plug here, but it's a coaching service. We provide unlimited coaches for first responders and we have over a hundred exercises that you don't have to go to Google or YouTube to look this up. It's all built in there. But these are the things that I've done to help manage some of this stress. so, you know, to circle back to the point of this is anybody who's even thinking about going into this community.

Dan Kronz (43:29.014)

Should be learning how to do this stuff now. So that 10, 15, 20 years on the job, you have a backpack of tools on how to mitigate, mitigate, manage that. And I think that is a gap that I saw within my community and special operations. And I see right now in public safety.

Vernon Phillips (43:48.528)

Yeah, and think what you talked about was good because you have to have a backpack of resources, of tools, right? Because every situation, right?

You're not gonna just be able to pull out one tool that you can keep in your backpack and it solve everything. I we'd like that, but I I go into my garage and I've got tools for different things, right? That's just the way it is. Like there's a different job that I'm gonna do, a different project I'm gonna do. It's gonna be a different set of tools and then a different one. you have to have that adaptability.

And the other thing is like, you're gonna, you're gonna fail. Like there's gonna be times where you're gonna fail and you're gonna go reach for a tool or something. And like, you're just gonna, you know, you're, gonna muck it up. Right. And so, and that's just happened to me last, like last weekend. you know, like I was trying to make these, these roll up things and I was using the air fryer and I was like, man, these things are gonna come out awesome. They're gonna look great. You know,

I've done it before where they come out and they just look really cool. I'm trying to make, I'm like, I'm going to take rice paper, right? And I'm going to make these kind of like a pizza roll, but it's going to be more like a stromboli. I was going to put ricotta cheese in there and some pepperonis and stuff. I'm going to roll them up and they're going to come out awesome. It's going to, you and I coated it in egg and I threw a little, you know, I crushed up some like pork rinds and gave it anyway, long story short, take these things, put them in the, you put them in the air fryer and I go to flip it and it completely just like, know, like, yeah, it just, it just went, and I was, and I got, I, and I was a little bit embarrassed. I went back and I apologize for what I got. So I got so mad. Like I was like, like I was, I was, I was sitting there at the counter and I got this, the stupid air fryer.

Vernon Phillips (45:54.395)

And I go in there and flip the thing and the thing is like, that's sticking. And I go to flip it and it just breaks open. And now I got ricotta cheese all in the air fryer. And I'm just like, and I could just feel it, right? It was just like, I was so, I was so mad. And I'm just like, you know, and she comes over and she's like, can I do? I was like, I just want to be left alone. just, just, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, I just.

Dan Kronz (46:14.754)

need a minute, I need space. I need you to get away from me. I feel you, man. I'm right there with you, man.

Vernon Phillips (46:19.896)

Yeah. So, so I went and I had, and I say this and I'm being completely transparent. They're like, like, we're not always going to be at our best. Right. And the thing is, like, so leading up to that, I was, you know, I was hyped up. like, man, this is going to be all these things are to come out awesome. You know, she's going to be like, so that's, you know, cause my wife's gonna be like, this thing's are, those things are great. part of it is, you know, I'm a perfectionist, right? So when things don't go the way that I think they need to go.

Yeah, but.

So I took a few minutes and I was like, okay, it's not a big deal. Let me just rework it. You know, it said, all right, I'm gonna use a little parchment paper this time and you know, and we got it done. But I went back and I just, you know, I said, hey, look, I said, said, you know, and I apologize, you know, and I was accountable for, you know, I didn't like, you know, I didn't throw anything. didn't smash nothing, right? I didn't, you know, I didn't yell at my kids or anything, but I was just, you she came over to offer to help and I was just like, I was like, no, just,

I'm good just and she's like, you okay? I'm like, no, I'm so angry. It was almost like, you know, couldn't even, I couldn't even say that I was so angry. And I'm like, and I was like, wow. And I went to her, was like, I'm kind of embarrassed. I'm like, like, so then I had to kind of like, all right.

Vernon Phillips (47:42.52)

Cause it wasn't about the stupid roll up thing in the air fryer. Right? And that's thing. So I kind of had to walk back through my day in the week and just like, all right, like what's going on? Like what are some of the things that I was like, okay, here, here, here. It wasn't this, right? It was some of the other things that I was already kind of frustrated with earlier in the week and stuff. But I had to kind of just go and say, hey, look,

That was kind of embarrassing and I'm sorry. I just got really angry. Yeah, and that's the thing. was saying sometimes you're going to mess and you're going to fail. Sometimes you're going to reach in that backpack or you're not going to pull any tool. You're like, I put it on upside down today and all your tools fell out. Sometimes that's how the days work.

Dan Kronz (48:28.875)

the wrong tool.

You said, I'm out, I'm out.

Vernon Phillips (48:42.006)

But then getting right in there, owning it and being accountable and saying, hey.

Dan Kronz (48:47.822)

But what you just shared is a prime example of, I'm using an example from my life of coaching. I'm not a coach. I've never been a coach. I would love to be a coach. I don't have any of the training, but I've had very similar situations that you just gave where I was talking to my coach about, and I'm bringing this up here to use this platform as an example is first and foremost, your reaction, that's normal. It's normal to get angry.

Like anybody would be angry if you put effort into something that you want. then now the air fryer is all dirty. You're going to have to clean it. don't get like that as a normal reaction. What is not a normal reaction is what you do with that anger. And I think a lot of men like us, we experienced that and then we feel shame and there's a difference between guilt and shame.

And so I mentioned stoicism earlier. One thing that helped me was working with a coach because my anger used to be really bad. It's, that was probably my biggest problem. And one of the things I've done to help conquer it, I still mess up and grab the wrong tool or no tool, but is identifying, okay, that just happened. That sucks. I'm angry about it. If I display anger right now, what benefit is going to come?

That's by going now I'm taking tools that we talked about today. Take a breath. I'm angry. If I show this anger, what benefit comes normally is nothing. Nothing is going to end how the stoics looked at it is if you start displaying that anger, it kind of shows how weak you are. shows like, Dan, you're getting messed up because you burned something in the oven.

You're that upset about that, that you're breaking plates in the house. Like, you know, whatever it is, that's not a normal reaction. And I think by having individuals in your life that you can go to and talk to about this stuff, one, it makes you feel normal to go that like, you're not the only dude to lose their cool from messing something up while cooking. So I think being able to talk that out is a huge part too. It gives you perspective.

Vernon Phillips (50:50.518)

Hell yeah.

Dan Kronz (50:57.494)

I just had to jump on that one there.

Vernon Phillips (50:59.411)

No, absolutely. I want to be respectful of your time. I think we could probably just keep this thing rolling. But to be respectful of your time and as we start to wrap this up, when you look at where you're at now and you look at your career and what you're doing now, how much has your faith played a role in that?

Dan Kronz (51:08.974)

You can go all day.

Dan Kronz (51:25.39)

Ups and downs. So I grew up, my dad was a pastor and being a preacher's kid can be a challenging experience. so, but during my time in service, it was a big cornerstone for me. mean, when you

Vernon Phillips (51:36.972)

That's a whole other podcast.

Dan Kronz (51:45.398)

Like I mentioned before, I've been deployed a lot. I've been in more combat than most of my peers. I don't bring that up as a bragging point, but I've in some tight situations. And I think if I didn't have that to lean on during those times, I don't know if I'd still be here today. But with the ups and downs, think where I'm at right now, I've fell a little bit away from my faith. I think that came from the war in Afghanistan when it when we left it that changed me verne III put so much into it and I lost so much from it When we left that country and then the friends that I've lost Six six of my teammates to suicide and the majority of those were after the war ended It's challenged my faith. So I'm in a weird place right now when it comes to that

Vernon Phillips (52:35.286)

Hmm.

Dan Kronz (52:38.586)

I'm searching and I'm looking and I'm learning. But that's been something in my head. I've talked to my dad about it. Thankfully, I still have a wonderful relationship with my father. He is an excellent man. He displayed what a man should be as a father and just in general. And so he's somebody I've been talking to about it. at least right now, that is a challenge point in my life. In the essence of honesty and integrity, that's what it is.

Vernon Phillips (52:47.734)

Yeah.

Vernon Phillips (53:09.514)

Yeah, no, and I appreciate you being honest with that because there's a lot of people that are at that point. Much like in your background, just like in first responders, where some of the things that they've seen and interacted with and witnessed really can challenge people's faith. there's definitely a refining that happens there. But man.

But I appreciate you being honest and I'm going to continue to keep in touch with you, reach out to you in any way that I can help you. Just like I know that you're more than willing to step in and help me anytime. So, but man, I appreciate it. I think it's been a great conversation. think we've touched on a whole lot of things and we've shared some not so great moments of ourselves, but it's all in the process of

of making sure that we're doing better than we were the day before. And that's what it's about. We want to get people to a place where they're operating at their best. And that's not just from the physical standpoint, from a mental standpoint, emotional, it's from the whole, all of it across the board. That's why I like to dive into the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual, because we want people to be well-rounded, well-balanced, and just...

Dan Kronz (54:11.086)

100%.

Dan Kronz (54:25.463)

All of it.

Vernon Phillips (54:35.509)

investing into all those areas in their life just to make them a better individual. But Dan, I appreciate it and I appreciate what you're doing and if anybody wants to get in contact with you or have a conversation with you, is there a way they could do that?

Dan Kronz (54:40.686)

Couldn't agree more.

Dan Kronz (54:52.994)

Yeah, absolutely. Best way to reach me is going to be my email, dan at sharp performance dot tech. So it's S-H-A-R-P and then performance P-E-R-F-O-R-M-A-N-C-E dot tech T-E-C-H. Please shoot me an email. Would love to jump on a call and chat more if anybody's interested. And Vern, I want to say thank you for what you do. Thank you for having this platform.

I think what you do at the department, being a chaplain, my uncle was a chaplain in Charleston. Thank you for what you do for the men and women in blue, man. And thank you for having me. I really appreciate our conversation.

Vernon Phillips (55:26.749)

I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. So, yep, me too. Thanks, man.

Dan Kronz (55:31.97)

Yes, sir.