Cultivating Growth and Innovation in Multifamily with Heather Williams

In this episode of the Multifamily Women® Podcast, hosted by Carrie Antrim, we have the pleasure of welcoming Heather Williams, Vice President of Strategic Solutions at Willow Bridge Property Company. Heather shares her journey and the various factors that have contributed to her remarkable success in the multifamily industry.

The discussion begins with a reminder about the upcoming Multifamily Women Summit, a crucial event for professionals seeking to expand their network and gain industry insights.

Heather Williams attributes her success to several key factors: a collaborative work environment, the embrace of technological advancements, and the unwavering support from her leadership. These elements, she believes, have been instrumental in her professional journey and in executing numerous significant projects across her region.

A central theme of the conversation is the necessity of embracing innovation in the multifamily industry. Heather emphasizes the importance of pushing boundaries and staying ahead of the curve.

Heather also shares her strategies for building effective teams. She stresses the significance of fostering open communication and a feedback culture within the team. According to her, adaptability is a key trait, especially when new initiatives arise or when aligning with investor objectives.

Leadership plays a critical role in the multifamily industry, and Heather highlights the qualities she values in a leader. She looks for individuals who are willing to embrace innovation and adapt to the changing industry landscape.

Mentorship and nurturing new talent are passions for Heather. She discusses her approach to guiding and supporting the professional growth of her team members. This includes creating dynamic job roles tailored to individual strengths, fostering an environment conducive to personal and professional growth.

A notable aspect of the discussion is Heather's involvement in the Multifamily Innovation® Council. She shares how the Council has been transformative for her, both personally and professionally.

In closing, Heather offers some powerful advice to the listeners. She encourages embracing risk-taking, committing to continuous learning, and viewing failure as an opportunity for growth. She emphasizes the importance of adaptability in the face of technological shifts and reminded listeners of the fundamental human element in the work they do - creating homes for people.

Connect with Heather Williams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-t-williams/

Connect with Multifamily Women®:

Multifamily Women® Summit: https://multifamilywomen.com/
Carrie Antrim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrieantrim/
Be a Guest on the Podcast or at the Summit: https://apps.multifamilywomen.com/speakingrequest
Multifamily Women® Leadership Series: https://apps.multifamilywomen.com/join

Transcript

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Hi, and welcome to the Multifamily Women podcast. I'm your host, Keri Antrim, and we are having candid conversations with some of the most successful women in the multifamily industry. Before I introduce my guest and we dive in, I want to remind you that the Multifamily Women Summit is coming up, and trust me, you cannot miss this. Take a moment, visit multifamilywomen. com and secure your place at the summit today. This is a prime opportunity to meet industry experts one on one. Gather practical insights, boost your business's success and your own performance. We also have a brand new partnership opportunity, one partnership, one price, infinite reach. So you'll want to check that out at multifamilywomen. com as well and get that secured today. And if you are getting value from these podcast episodes, we ask you to support us by subscribing, rating, and reviewing. Your feedback helps us tailor our content to your needs. And it also helps other multifamily professionals discover this resource. Your time and your thoughts are greatly appreciated. So without further ado, joining me today is one of our multifamily innovation council members, Heather Williams. She's the vice president of strategic solutions for Willow Bridge property company, formerly Lincoln property company. Heather oversees Willow Bridge's strategic solutions and pre development programming departments handling over 70, 000 plus units across the Southeast region during her 16 year tenure. So I am very excited to be talking with her today. Heather, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Well, I'm so glad you're here. Let's just jump right in. Listen, you've built an amazing career working on very significant projects. What would you say contributes to the type of success you've had? Oh, you're so sweet. Thank you. I, I honestly believe the success of my career can be attributed to a combination of factors. Really? I've been fortunate enough to work with some incredible people and alongside some really great owners who value innovation and strive to stay ahead of the curve. The Really, the collaborative environment has allowed for the execution of many great projects across my region. I'd say that starting in the industry as a summer job as a leasing professional to evolving to many different management and leadership roles over the years, understanding the ins and outs of the onsite teams daily interactions also helps me better navigate through some of the technology advancements taken the heavy burden off our onsite teams. It's crucial. I feel like, you know, Truthfully, my boss has played a huge role in all of this, you know, I mean, his support and willingness to accommodate my crazy requests have really been instrumental to my professional growth at Willowbridge. I feel like, you know, his preparedness is always, it's always resting on my shoulder, reminding me daily to have a plan B just in case things don't go as planned, you know, this adaptability and ability to pivot. Really have been essential in overcoming challenges and constantly moving forward, especially as it relates to innovation and technology. It's really the combination of working with really great talented individuals and having leaders who embrace innovation. It's hard to find and being prepared for uncertainties that have contributed to the success I've had over the span of my career. The old saying of, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it isn't relevant anymore. It's more like. Push boundaries. Let's figure it out. Then networking with other like minded individuals. It's really what fuels my passion for change and creating an overall positive resident experience for our clients. That's really interesting and very powerful what you said. You mentioned you have a great boss and, and you're able to go to him with all your, these were your words, I think, crazy ideas. I would never call you crazy, but what does that what does that feel like? How has that helped with your development and your career growth, having that kind of relationship where you can Yeah. Go to someone and, and feel confident that, you know, this might be a crazy idea, but here's what I think and not get shut down, you know, I think the younger you are and getting into the industry, you know, you're, you're a little afraid to approach these topics with your bosses or even your teammates just out of sounding silly or, you know, feeling like it's a dumb question. You know, I, I would say it's No matter how long you've been with a company, sitting down with your boss is always a little unnerving sometimes, but really sitting down and saying, listen, I really need to talk to you about this. We need to make some positive change, but this is going to require some, some trust on your side and, and really believing the value of the information that I'm bringing to the table. And you'll, you'll see quickly how that. Transforms and changes the relationship between not just your boss, but your team members. You know, when your team members know that you believe in them and you allow for open communication and feedback and learning, I feel like you gain that respect the more you're bringing important items to the table and not just with your boss, but with your clients and Third party management is, is not easy and you have a lot of decision makers in the process. So really being firm and educating yourself to the topics that you're talking is really important on all levels. Absolutely. Was that, was it scary for you in the beginning? Like, what did you have to do in order to, to get some wins under your belt and gain that trust and credibility with your teammates and your boss and your clients and everyone? You got to make mistakes. I would say, obviously, you got to make some mistakes to learn and grow. And, you know, I think people sometimes get in a rut and don't really have that learning environment to grow as an individual, personally and professionally. I think it took a lot of car rides you know, with my boss and really starting to learn who he was, how he operates. And, you know, I'm very fortunate. We have a very tenured group of individuals in the Southeast and, you know, with that comes that. That feeling of family and people supporting each other and supporting their successes and their failures, you know, and, and really kind of learning how to pivot and having those conversations and airing your, you know, not so, so much dirty laundry, but more so airing your frustrations and saying, can you help me navigate through this kind of built that trust for me. You know, and it, it's, it's not an easy task and you're always going to be intimidated by your boss because at the end of the day, they're your boss. But I look at it now, like I can go to him with everything, anything and everything. And I've been very fortunate with that opportunity because of a lot of those times that we've had traveling together, pitching together. You know, really getting to know each other personally and professionally for sure. Wow. That, that's really great. So when you're working together with teams as opposed to just your boss, but all your teams, how are you bringing people together on projects? For example you know, like the investor might have an objective and then new initiatives require communication throughout the organization. How do you move through that? Great question. I would say collaboration is at the heart of any successful project execution and bringing people together is a skill I've honed in on throughout my career when working with teams, especially in scenarios where, like, investors and have specific objectives and effective communication. It's paramount. We do this by ensuring clarity on the investors goals and objectives, asking those questions, repeating what they say and what their goals are. And then once. These are understood. We initiate transparent and open lines of communication throughout the organization. I've found that providing regular updates, clear direction of information are crucial to keep everyone on the same page, especially when you're bridging the gap between marketing technologies and operational efficiencies. I mean, we we often leverage Cross functional teams, bringing individuals from different departments, ensuring that we have a diverse range of perspectives and skills at play. This not only enhances our problem solving, but also fosters a sense of ownership and shared responsibility, which is nice. I personally prioritize creating a culture of open feedback. I mean, this encourages team members to share their thoughts, concerns and ideas freely. And it fosters a collaborative environment where everyone feels heard. And I would also say adaptability is also key. You know, I'd say new initiatives often require adjustments to the initial plan. Same goes with marketing. When you deploy a paid search campaign, you know, you're gonna look at what needs to pivot, what needs to be changed. We're identifying the challenges. Assessing the progress of those campaigns, flexibility, and the ability to recalibrate strategies ensures that we can meet the objectives, even in a dynamic environment. And I'd say a combination of clear communication, cross functional collaboration, a culture of feedback, the adaptability that allows me to bring people together on projects and aligning with investor objectives. While keeping the organization informed and engaged is super powerful and important. Yeah, absolutely. So when you say you know, a culture of open feedback, I love that. Because I was going to ask my follow up question was about pushback, but I'm wondering if, you know, just the terminology of what we use rather than pushback, is it more feedback or do you, you know, how do you handle that when When your teams might not quite be on board or they're not understanding the purpose of it or something like that. Yeah, I think that comes to the openness of how you lead the team. I feel that if you open that door, you got to keep it open. And that's where that old saying, you know, open doors. I have an open door policy. It's not really a policy, but the fact that your team knows that they can text you, call you, ask questions and freely, you know, answer questions. Feel exposed. They learn and grow from that. And, you know, I think with any third party management, you get pushed back, as you say, you know, on money spent. And I would say that marketing gets the brunt of a lot of. You know, fault sometimes. And so you kind of have to understand that we're all sensitive people, especially marketing people. We have to build their self esteem. We have to help them grow in their role and have clear boundaries and know, Hey, what do you want to do? What, what is your feedback? What are your objections? Do you have objections? Because at the end of the day, they may not believe in the product or the process. You know, why is that really understanding the why behind it all? Absolutely. So, you know, we're all experiencing a constant state of change all the time, but I'm wondering what is something that has remained the same for you? Hmm. I'd say in the midst of the ever evolving landscape of technology. You know, our lifestyle is changing. Architectural design is changing. One thing that's remained constant for me is the importance of the adaptability and the commitment to continued learning. While technology and the way we live may change rapidly, the ability to adapt to these changes and stay curious has been a constant in my approach. Embracing new technologies, I would say, and The shifts is essential. I've found that, you know, a mindset of continuous learning not only helps in staying relevant, but also in thriving with those lessons. Another enduring constant for me is the value of human connection. And despite the advancements of technology, changes in lifestyle and the essence of meaningful relationships and connections. Really have remained unchanged, building and nurturing relationships, whether in a professional or personal context remains a fundamental aspect of my life you know, with, with the dynamic nature of our surroundings and our, our culture climates and the constants of adaptability, continuous learning, and the value of human connections have really served as anchors for me, providing me for stability and guiding my approach to the evolving world around us. Now, you mentioned, you know, you've, you have this great relationship with your boss and your teams and, and you have. Learn that and then also cultivated it within your leadership style. I can tell from what you're saying, what do you look for in a leader? That's a great question. I get asked this all the time. You know, I value several qualities in a leader and throughout my gosh, 23 year career. I've been fortunate enough to have experienced some exceptional leadership in the industry and one key aspect that I always prioritize is a leader's willingness to embrace innovation and try new things. Flexibility and adaptability, honestly, are crucial qualities that I find essential when navigating today's dynamic and ever changing landscape. Whether that's in new construction development, well established stabilized asset renovations, where new amenities or technologies are deployed across the region. It isn't just one person. It's a team of people who support and challenge me every single day. And they challenge me. They'll, they'll fight me on certain things, but you just have to learn how to pick and choose your battles too. Well, you know, 11 distinctive feature of some of the leaders I've had the privilege to work with is honestly the tenure of our team at Willow Bridge. I mean, we've built a strong network that feels more like a family and I know that the new hot buttons and I've read the some of the recent articles about saying don't compare your work family with your real family and crossing those lines. But at the end of the day, I feel like we've built that strong network that feels more like family. I mean the sense of having that family bond that sets us apart from our competitors. It's not only creating a strong sense of unity, but also fostering a collaborative environment and helps to build that environment where people can go to people and ask questions and make mistakes and not feel stupid or, you know, a leader who combines a willingness to explore the new ideas with a flexible and adaptable mindset. And one who prioritizes building lasting connections with the team is someone I truly value and respect at the end of the day. Yeah. I agree with you on the family. I mean, a lot of times we're spending as much or more time with our work family, you know, than our real family when, when times are busy. So I, I agree with you on that. What does it feel like? Having I'm assuming in your career you have mentored or helped, you know, foster these leaders through what does it feel like personally for you to see someone maybe come in at at an entry level right in the front door and work their way up because of, you know, maybe some Guidance and advice that you've given. I always say bob and weave, you know, or, you know, avoid the fog, stay out of the gossip and rumor mill. You know, that's a, that's a huge thing. I would say in corporate America is you just got to stay away from the negativity and sometimes it sucks you in. And sometimes being silent is better than speaking your opinion. You just have to learn and, you know, unfortunately, Hey, we've all learned the hard way. Sometimes you make mistakes. Learn real quickly that what you're not supposed to do, but, you know, I, I think that. Finding out what their true passion is, building on that, creating roles for those specific role, you know, positions at companies is really important. I've had a, you know, a great success writing job descriptions. Like I feel like that's my part time job, you know, and really finding what sets these individuals apart and creating a role that's specifically dynamic for them, where they're going to have personal growth and. Personal accomplishments, you have to love the people you work with. You spend so much time with them. And, you know, at the end of the day, I feel like the proud mom moments when I see them be successful, I never want to stand in the way of someone else's success, you know, I would rather hold them up and watch them flourish and know that I had some small piece of that journey, you know, it's. It's important to me and, you know, it was done for me and a lot of, a lot of different people and organizations I've worked with and, you know, I, I feel that that's a valuable lesson. You mentioned Writing job descriptions. That's really interesting. What, do you mind taking us through like what, how you approach that process before you start, like what your methodology is, how you think through it to, to find that great person? Well, I will tell you when I first started doing it. Well, the best example I can give you is when I first came on with Lincoln. My boss sent me a job description and I, I thought to myself, I don't want to do this job. This sounds absolutely horrendous. Like no. And, you know, he said, well, just look it over. Take out everything you don't like, add in some things you do like. And I'm like, okay. I turned to my husband and I was like, Do I, is he really right asking me to like redo this job description? I, I don't even know where to start. And so I started going in and redlining things and saying, absolutely not. Don't want to do that. And I gave it back to him thinking, there's no way he's going to be okay with this. And he sent it back. He's like, great. When can you start? And I said, Oh my God, I just wrote my own job description. This is freaking awesome. You know, I mean, after that you start to grow and say, okay, well, your company doesn't have that role. How do you create some mid market type positions where people have that growth opportunity in their role? When you hire somebody as a director, where are they going to go? You know, I mean, it's, it's harder and harder to go up the ladder. So create some additional layers in that support structure. With maybe an associate or a manager level, and then they can move up to directors and VPs. I mean, they're having a Channel that you can grow in provides not only personal growth But professional growth for those individuals and finding what sets them apart from another person in that role And and kind of honing in on that and i've learned over the years give that flexibility of that job description take out that That same old same old I I've read lots of different job description descriptions over the years and some of these I'm like, Oh, this sounds like, you know, just corporate jargon, you know, and not really valuable and there's so many things that. They say that's not my job. Well, it doesn't need to be listed in a job description for you to do it. My view has always been, if it's not part of your job description, who cares? Like, let's, let's figure it out. Let's look at it and see how can I bring value to the table? You know, and I think, I think I've been, I've been very fortunate with a boss that's allowed me to do that over the years. Right. And, and I mean, I've left and come back and I've learned, you know, grass isn't always greener that you just have to, I think that comes with age and tenure in the industry in general. And I feel like you have to learn from your lessons over the years, but I try to empower my team. To say, okay, we need to add some support. I just did it recently, actually. And I said, I need to, we need to add some support structure to you. You're only one person. How do we do this? Well, we need to create some roles that can come in and help supplement what you do. And let's build this team. And I've allowed this individual to write her job description for her support structure. And we go back and forth about the description, what to include and all that. So I try to empower my team to. Take a look at it and, and play a crucial role when writing a job description and saying, how do we build the next you like, where, where do we, where and how do we build your succession? And that's been powerful, I would say to not only me, but to my teams. Well, I mean, that makes perfect sense. You're going straight to the source, right? You're going to the person who's currently doing the job. You know, they're going to know best what support they need. Yep. Yep, absolutely. You mentioned that, you know, throughout your, your tenure, you left, you came back. Did that. Take courage, not only to leave, but then to come back and making moves. I know in the in the industry, a lot of people, you know, we're all making moves all the time. Was that scary for you? Or was it empowering? What did that feel like? Oh, it was very scary. You know, you, you, you tend to become complacent after, you know, a long time at one company and you think that there's no growth and maybe there wasn't. And maybe you had to leave to A, learn a lesson or B, Continue to grow and learn from a different perspective and I had the pleasure of being able to build a really great solid team and some of which decided to stay on with me when I came back and you know, that's that speaks volumes as well. And I think that it's a humbling experience. You know, and I always tell people on my teams is, you know, just do what makes you happy. If you're not happy, do what makes you feel happy inside. Because at the end of the day, if you don't love your job, It really isn't going to be lifelong experience and exposure for you. Like you got to love what you do and you got to be able to pivot. And I've always loved reinventing myself. After a few years reinventing yourself isn't, you know, taking you out of one, one space, but it's actually enriching and enhancing. You know, and I, I'd say I've been humbled over the years. I'm not going to lie. I mean, I've, I've made bad decisions, but I've also made some really good ones. And. Most of the lessons that I've taken is you got to learn from it and I've become a better person and a better leader because of that and you know, you, you, you kind of have to pivot. That's my favorite word is you just have to learn how to pivot and it both personally and professionally. Yeah. I love that. Now one of the things that is exciting is that you are a member of the Multifamily Innovation Council, and I'm wondering what has that brought to you? You know, we meet every week and we have a members area with all the cool stuff, all the summits and everything. What has that brought to you personally and professionally? Yeah, I'm still digging in on all of that, but I will tell you, even in my, there's a lot, there's a lot, but I love it. I love it. There's so many resources and so, so many great people, you know, I, I think it's been very transformative for me, both personally and professionally. And, you know, on a personal level, I think that the council has provided a unique opportunity for growth and continuous learning, which I love and engaging with a diverse groups of industry experts and thought leaders has really expanded my perspectives and deepened my understanding as to different roles, you know, professionally, I think that the council has been instrumental in staying at the forefront of innovation within the multifamily sector, where we didn't really have this in the past, which is. Super nice. The collaborative environment has also allowed for the exchange of cutting edge ideas, best practices insights that are invaluable in navigating the challenges and opportunities in and outside our industry, which I love because you can get a different perspective from so many different people on the council and, and really have the resources at hand to say, you know what? I remember we had this. Podcast, you know, let me look it up. I need to refresh myself, you know, building relationships with some of the council members, you know, it's been pretty spectacular for me. You know, most of these are leaders in their respective fields and it's opened doors to new collaborations and partnerships and opportunities for a professional advancement for me and being part of the council is not only enriched my knowledge, but skills and also provided a network of like minded professionals fostering both. Personal and professional growth in the dynamic landscape of multifamily real estate, which was never so complex in the past, which is so much more complex now. And you know, I'm thankful in the sense of, you know, we did have a pandemic that pushed us into innovation and technology, which we really needed. And the council is just a, a phenomenal opportunity to be able to broaden that experience and exposure for yourself. And I think that, you know, it's not a stiff, you know, group of people. Everybody is on camera. People are connecting, not just virtually, but they're connecting through site. And, you know, that's another thing. Zoom came out of the, the pandemic as well. And you're able to see people and interact and collaborate with people on a small scale, large scale. It really depends. And everybody's got different history. And so maybe their efforts in trying things may not have been successful for them, but it may, I may have pulled some little tidbit of information that they shared in candid conversation and said, Hey, wait, let's look at this a different perspective, you know, even with big companies, you have, you know, streamlined processes and you have you know, controllable environments with national versus regional and all of that. But with your smaller companies, I learned so much more from them sometimes on how to approach a topic or how to really look at it through different, a different lens. And that's, that's powerful. And, you know, I think historically for me is who do you turn to for some advice on some of these things, you know, outside of just your vendor partnerships who are, you know, selling the product or standing behind their product. How do you really get that motivation to, to dig in deeper? And the council's allowed me to do that. And having these candid conversations, it's very powerful. Yeah. I think those relationships are so crucial. Now I want to ask, how do you do it all? How, you know, you are, I'm sure you are busy. You are very successful. I'm sure you're traveling and doing all these meetings and everything and leading all these great teams. How do you do it? Pivoting. There we go, I love it. And prioritizing. You know, I think some things are, you know, better fought later. There are some things that what's going to really move the, the meter faster. What do we really need to focus on? Those are sometimes things where. Okay, you got to pick and choose your battle and how are we really going to what's going to move the meter and in the decision making product process, right? Like you got to learn how to juggle, but prioritizing is number one for sure. And. Yeah, it's, it's important to know the value of the information you get from people and, and how you approach those conversations with people who may be even, shall I say, close minded, you know, sometimes people are, this is the way it's been, and this is the way we do it. You know, you have to evoke change somewhere and that's kind of where you're like, okay, I'm going to challenge you on this. And here, I just want you to listen to me or, you know, you just sometimes need to learn how to just balance and not just personal and professional, but you've got to balance your workload and. You've got to know what's going to weigh more at the time and then you have things that you come back to and say, you know what, this is going to take some deeper thought. I've got to really strategize and, and figure out the right, the right recommendation here. Yeah, that's great. I wrote down better fought later. You know, I, I, everyone I've heard pick your battles, choose your battles. Right. But I like that phrase better fought later. I love that you have to, I mean, sometimes you're, you're, you're plates full, you know, It's funny. I have a friend of mine in the industry too. And she's like, I don't know how you do it. It's like you juggle and you'd never know that you're juggling and you just have to, you have to find that balance and you can be juggling and freak it out on the back end, but you can't freak out on the front end. I think that comes with wisdom and dare I say age and experience, you know, having that grace to give yourself like, yeah, my brain is absolutely on fire right now, but nobody knows because I'm fine. I'm fine. We're all fine. Everything's fine. I'm fine. You're fine. Exactly. I'm wondering if you have any final thoughts you'd like to share. You know, I would like to leave our listeners with a few thoughts that I've been, that have been really instrumental in my own journey. Firstly, embrace risk taking, you know, in a world that's constantly evolving and taking calculated risks is often the catalyst for innovation and growth. And continued learning is another key element. I'd say that the landscape of technology and our industries is ever changing. And the more we commit to learning, the better equipped we are to navigate these changes and be a perpetual student on your journey. Never be afraid to fail. Know that failure is not the opposite of success. It's part of the journey. And it's Through failure that we learn and grow and ultimately succeed and embracing it as a stepping stone towards your own professional goals. You know, in the realm of technology where changes happen daily, the ability to pivot is crucial. It's not about avoiding change, but rather how you adapt and pivot that determines your success and flexibility and agility in the face of technological shifts will set you apart. And finally. You know, I'd say let's remember the core of what we do, whether it's in technology, innovation or any other field. At the end of the day, we create places where people call home. And these, this connection to the human experience is a powerful motivator. You know, just keep that in mind as you navigate your professional journey, your personal will come in line. Those are great thoughts. I'm, I'm happy that you said all that. I actually took notes for later. That's amazing. Yay! Yay! Yeah! So I'm imagining that there might be people out there who will want to continue this conversation or reach out to you and just pick your brain or just say hello and meet you. What's the best way for someone to, to reach you? Yeah, I always encourage people to connect with me on LinkedIn and I guess it's a heather t williams on LinkedIn. Okay. And we will link to that in our, our show notes as well. Awesome. Thank you so much, Heather, for sharing the time today. I really enjoyed our conversation. I think I'm so excited to have met you and that you're part of the council and, you know, I'm just, I'm so, I think that this is going to be very valuable for our listeners. Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. This is great. Yeah, absolutely. So before we wrap, be sure to connect with Heather on LinkedIn. And if you'd like to be a member of the Multifamily Innovation Council as well and connect weekly with industry leaders just like Heather, be sure to head over to multifamilyinnovation. com and click on Council. Be sure to check out the show notes for this episode to connect with Heather and everything else we've mentioned today. And as we wrap up today's episode, I'd like to extend an invitation for you to join our Women's Leadership Series. By joining, you'll gain access to our private group with over 5, 000 members. It's just a fantastic place to exchange ideas, inspire one another, and grow together. You can find that on multifamilywomen. com and click on join. Thank you for listening and we will see you next time.