TuTu Thin: A Podcast for Dancers | Be a healthy dancer/athlete in mind, body and spirit.
TuTu Thin: A Podcast for Dancers | Be a healthy dancer/athlete in mind, body and spirit.
Robyn L. Goldberg, RDN. CEDRD-S
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We welcome Robyn Goldberg, RDN to the TuTu Thin podcast. Robyn began her career at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles as the in-patient dietitian in the Department of Cardiology. Over the last twenty-five years she has developed her own private practice in Los Angeles, CA, where she specializes in medical conditions, disordered eating, eating disorders, Health at Every Size, pre-pregnancy nutrition, and people in recovery. Robyn is a Certified Eating Disorders Registered Dietitian and Supervisor from IAEDP as well as a Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor. For the last eight years Robyn was the Nutrition Counselor for the Susan Krevoy Eating Disorders Program at The Wright Institute Los Angeles, led eating disorder and body image groups at various sober livings in Los Angeles. She is a contributing author and is a nationally and internationally known registered dietitian nutritionist. She has been quoted in The New York Times, The Huffington Post, Vogue, The Fix, Shape Magazine, Fitness, Oxygen, Pilates Style, Diabetes Forecast, BH Weekly and Life & Style. She has been on national television as the eating disorder expert on The Insider. Robyn is the author of the book The Eating Disorder Trap: A Guide for Clinicians and Loved Ones, Co-author of the online course Your Recovery Resource and the host of the podcast The Eating Disorder Trap Podcast.
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Welcome to the Two Tooth In Podcast. We're so happy today to have Robin Goldberg, who is a registered dietitian specializing in the treatment of eating disorders. She's also the author of the eating disorder trap and also the person who heads the podcast for the eating disorder trap. So I'd like to welcome Robin. And we're going to talk a little bit about Robin's background and how she fits into the Two Tooth In podcast. So welcome, Robin. Thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_01Thank you very much, Don. It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_00So tell us a little bit about your work as a dietitian, how you got into it. You know, tell us a little bit about you. Sure.
SPEAKER_01So April will be 26 years. I've been in practice. I this is my one and only career I've ever had. And I actually got into my profession based on my family history of heart disease and high cholesterol. At the time my father was alive and always hearing about high cholesterol and all his heart problems, as well as all my other family members. That was what initially got me interested. And I myself hereditarily have high cholesterol. And I will know in a few weeks if I have heart disease and I'm going on medication. It's um fortunately you can't change your genetics, you know, your diet and activity or a certain part of it, but your genes are your genes. So I always like to say I do the best I can with the hand I've been dealt. So that was my initial introduction to just the idea of being a registered dietitian, just when careers were suggested to me when I was in my 20s. And, you know, the other area that I thought, like, hmm, that I could potentially be interested in is I was a college tennis player and a competitive tennis player my whole life and never really put much thought into nutrition and performance. More like I was always um my parents were always very focused on me being on these very nutritionally dense shakes because I played so many hours of tennis a day that I had a hard time being able to keep my body weight up. Um, so you know, I thought, you know, the idea of being a registered dietitian for a sports team was always my number one passion until I learned about all the other avenues that you can pursue as a registered dietitian. And ironically, and I'm actually telling you, Don, like how I became interested in these different areas, how it kind of all twofold um happened for me when I went to college. My first year I played at a college in Northern California, and I would fall asleep at night to my three different roommates purging. And I never knew anything formally about anorexia nervosa or bulimia nervosa. I had other challenges, which we'll talk about. But you know, being able to, you know, being on this athlete schedule, um, I never I thought, like, oh, they're they're hung over. I never really understood what was happening until one of them came to speak to me at breakfast one morning to share her quote unquote her secret with me. So it was years later when I decided to pursue the path of dietetics and had my first job at the Cedar Sunday Medical Center when the chief clinical dietitian had asked, like, you know, who's interested in seeing these patients with eating disorders? So I always like to say that I learned about eating disorders backwards. And what I mean by that is like every dietitian is trained in what's called enteral and parental feedings, tube feedings, TPN. And, you know, we're not trained in counseling and how to establish a relationship with people. So I always look back to it, it's hearing about just my family history of heart disease and high cholesterol that got me interested, and then these other areas of my life too. Wow.
SPEAKER_00Um, tell me about your tennis. Did you pursue it or did you like how'd you get into tennis?
SPEAKER_01Well, I grew up in a tennis family. My father was a tennis player. In fact, he passed away on the tennis court. Um, you know, my mom uh was a tennis player and my brother was, but really my dad was the main tennis player. And it was just out of all the different activities we did as a family, tennis was sort of like the main type of activity that I really took a liking to. I was introduced to dance, excuse me, because my mother was a professional dancer. I never connected with it and I was forced to do tap, jazz, and ballet and always felt very awkward. And I think for me, always being a natural gift with having great hand-eye coordination and really being able to pick up sports naturally, that was more what I was drawn to. But yeah, tennis was what I was drawn to. That was it. Yeah, tennis and basketball till I stopped the basketball and went tennis exclusively. Um, do you still play? I do less often, probably every few months. But um, yeah, I it it took a long time for me to learn how to go out and just have fun versus being competitive. So now I'm just so laid back about it. But then I find that competitive side of me comes out and I get frustrated that I'm not at the level that I once was. But certainly it's funny because I just had lunch with my tennis friends that I haven't played with. And they're like, oh, you got to come out, you got to be on this league. I thought, you know what? I'm not at a stage of my life that I want to be on a league where I kind of gave that part up. It's nice to go out and just experience nature and be outdoors.
SPEAKER_00Um, the competitiveness that's part of the eating disorder and part of being an athlete and part of being a dancer, like that competitiveness to always be achieving the next thing. So tell me about your um work with dancers and athletes, because you and I, prior to the podcast talk starting, talked a little bit about it. And it sounds like you do a lot of work with dancers and athletes.
SPEAKER_01Definitely. I I actually, Don, when I started my career out in the early days, I always wanted to be the dietitian for the Lakers. And I remember my professor telling me it was important that I expand my areas of interest, and I definitely have over two decades, but I think for me, you know, after playing college tennis, I competed in triathlon for six years. And I think that culture is definitely disordered within itself, too. So, you know, seeing clients that engage in different forms of movement is something I really like to help with because I know one of the areas that looking back now and having more wisdom in my life that I see was really problematic was I was not allowed to acknowledge pain or discomfort. And what I mean by that is I've had four foot surgeries all on my left foot, starting at 13 years of age. And I had chronic feet problems. And I remember the different coaches and the people I saw would tell me to just work through the pain. And unfortunately, I did, and I think it's certainly caught up with me over the years, but with with this, because nutrition was not a focal point when I was playing. It was like just getting enough calories in. And I see with, for example, clients I see that dance now, and you and I are touching upon this a little before, there's such an emphasis on your image, because especially if you're dancing, you're in the public eye, you're in front of a mirror, I think the body checking is just off the charts for clients I see that dance, as opposed to when I'm speaking to someone who's a swimmer or a tennis player or a cyclist, not that they don't engage in these behaviors, but I think when there's a sport that focuses on appearance like wrestling, gymnastics, ice skating, there's such an emphasis of Robin, you know what? I have to eat a certain way because I need to look a certain way, but then there are people that are breaking the mold of the stigma and the stereotype and don't look like quote unquote the traditional or classic person, it's like our genetics, which you know we were discussing before, play such a huge role in not only how we look, but health conditions we develop for time too. And so I really like to be sensitive to listen to where each person is at and what they engage in. But also, if you're feeling lightheaded every time you're in your hip-hop class or you're seeing flashing stars, or you're feeling your legs are weak and you can't stand, and you are in a jazz class and you're needing to hold the bar the whole time, and you're not a senior citizen, that's something to take a look at.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's so interesting because I think so many times aesthetics takes over, especially for adolescents and people who are starting off because they're they're trying to get noticed or try to move forward, whether it's in a sport or a dance, but dance, you're right, everybody spends their time looking in the mirror, um, versus fueling their body and fueling their body with what it needs on a daily basis. And so, you know, you know, I know you work a lot with eating disorders, but I'm curious as to um your work with dancers and athletes that maybe don't have eating disorders, but need to learn how to fuel their body. And, you know, hopefully they reach out before they have an eating disorder versus after.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I I think one of the areas that I really like to encourage clients to pay attention to is how is your body feeling? For example, when you're fueling up and you're actually having a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and the glass of milk before getting on your bike. Like, how am I feeling energy-wise? How am I feeling stamina-wise as opposed to I just grabbed a couple carrots and a bite of a granola bar and feeling this is my discipline to force myself to go on that 20-mile bike ride versus your body authentically having that energy that it can and wants to go on its own, that you're not feeling my calves are cramping up, or I'm not quick and sharp to maneuver a squirrel darted out in front of me, or there's a car behind me. I think the problem is when a person is not eating regularly, or they're not having a sufficient balance of enough carbohydrates in their diet, enough fat in addition to protein, their ability to be agile and quick and respond in these emergency situations is very unlikely to happen. So I really like to pose the idea of like, do you ever notice how you're feeling when you're eating such and such before your ocean swim versus I'm going on an empty stomach and swimming to the buoy and back, especially because when you're out in the world engaging in your type of sport or activity, you can only rely on how you're feeling. It's different when you're in a studio and you're in the yoga class or you're in the dance class and you're like, oh yeah, I could get a sip of Gatorade or I could grab a bite of a banana. It's like, can you or can you not? Versus like and having these mirrors that are certainly feeding into how you feel about yourself versus when you're out in the open world to be able to really rely on that internal feeling and connection with yourself is that much greater and more important.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And I think it's learning how to listen to your body, meaning not being afraid to hear what your body is telling you.
SPEAKER_01And it's okay to stop and take breaks.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and we're it's something we're born with. It's an innate sense that when we're babies, we cry because we're hungry or tired, you know, and so but somewhere along the line, and I always like to talk about how it's a disconnection between the brain and the body, like there's a disconnect that happens where it's not stopping at all the floors, the elevator's not stopping at all the floors. So um tell us about your book because your book is great. And um, how did you decide to write it? I love the title, so tell us a little bit about it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01So, my book, The Eating Disorder Trap, a Guide for Clinicians and Loved Ones, the birth of it came about, it was in the works for over four years, and I had thought long and hard about if I was ever going to write something that would be in our field. I wanted to have a book that was different from what currently existed. And what I mean by that is a book that anyone can read. You could be your parents, or you could be the neighbor, you could be a teacher, or you could be a new clinician to the field. So I wanted something that could be written in a very simplistic manner that was relatable to all. In addition to growing up, my brother collected comic books, and I found that comic books and illustrations for me, being a visual learner, had always been a way that I could grasp concepts that maybe if someone was speaking about, that I would not be able to understand. So I think having a picture to me was like, oh yeah, I get what they're saying. So I felt like having illustrations in a book that could be catchy and cute before I dive into like a serious topic. I wanted illustrations that would not be stigmatizing, that could be inclusive to all, in addition to just the place we're at now in the world of having literature written with appropriate pronouns. I thought, well, that's lacking in the field of not only dietetics, but eating disorders. So I thought, okay, I'd like to have that. And there's so many people that I respect and have golden nuggets to share. I thought, well, this could add more credibility when I'm having I had two wonderful eating disorder therapists as experts that were contributors, and four wonderful eating disorder physicians. And I felt like there's not been anything done like this before. So that was sort of how it came about. And so I have it into four sections, and I thought I don't want to have a book that I talk about what all the different eating disorders are. There's so many books like that out there, maybe, of course, to touch upon what it is, but really like basics about like what a person needs to know about it. Also, when you're around people, being able to know, like, wow, okay, you know what? I'm a tutor, I'm around people more than you know, their parents are, and what impact and role I play in being the piano teacher or the tutor. And when there is the diagnosis, being able to understand like how your language can be harmful and how it can be helpful, as well as really getting into so my so that's like one basic section. And then I have um another section, like section two, like the evaluation assessment, like the dietitian's role, important screening questions that we incorporate into our sessions, um, debunking the myths about BMI and you know, and laboratory tests, not always showing everything that they need to. And we hear the term normal. I think normal is such an arbitrary term, and being able to just kind of break down all this wording and coding that we essentially hear and and discuss, but but also to be able to say, okay, you know what, since BMI is not always effective, what are other screening methods and um eating disorder assessments that can be incorporated when you're sitting and speaking to someone? And you don't have to be an expert, they can just be questions that you implement into a conversation. And I thought, okay, the hardest section to really bring into this was, and I could have gone on and on, were all the different medical complications, how all different body parts and organs are affected, and there's you know others as well. But these were the heavy hitters, but without having one feel, okay, I'm already overwhelmed, but knowing like a snippet of what could happen. And then if they're interested, of course, there's other data that they could pursue too, and being able to say, okay, my third section, the the the big macro, I always say ring around the rosy of you know, the banana and the fish and the bread, all these different foods, holding hands in harmony. There isn't the discrimination and bias and rules that one would have. And I then like to talk about, of course, as being a registered dietitian, the benefits and the myths about carbohydrates, and the same with protein and so forth with fat, and of course, with water, because I think people think like, oh, water, that's harmless, and really understanding like how it can be dangerous, the overconsumption of water, and really getting into that. And then my last section, which I think, too, if I were ever to do a second edition, um, like a book within itself. And I know you talk a lot about this too, Don, like with clients. I mean, really like the road to recovery and what that looks like. And I think if we don't have compassion for ourselves, then we'll be in this constant tug-of-war match and being able to learn how to speak to and with the eating disorder voice, but really being able to look at like the purpose that it has served, as opposed to saying, you know, wow, there's other areas in my life that are more important and more fulfilling, and where you're able to have the soul self be able to merge with the eating disorder self. So you're able to be like, okay, you know what? You've been there for me, but there's other areas I'm finding that I'm getting more fulfillment in now. And then how to really have that team because I think the team is really the key and critical part in being able to be recovered. I think oftentimes people say, Oh, I'm feeling really confident, I'm doing great. I've been in treatment for a month, a month. That's that's like the honeymoon period. And the honeymoon period is not over. It's many months before you get that. It's it's really being able to warm up your seat and get ready for the ride. And that's yeah, so that was how this whole thing came about. So I mean, I really wanted a lot merged in. And I think it could be as other colleagues are like, oh, Robin, you could have a second, like I feel like there's other things I could do with it, but it's like, as you know, Don, it's a lot of time, energy, it's a it's a love relationship. I would say a lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into it. It's like, okay, do I want to have the next? I mean, there's I feel like it's like Nancy Drew or the Hardy Boys. I could have so many versions. And for those of us that are listening that are younger and don't know what it is, I know Don knows what I'm speaking about, but I think this is like a good intro where I'm putting a lot in at one time.
SPEAKER_00I love the book. I think it's really easy to read, uh, great for family members. The thing I love that you put in there, which I use all the time with family members, is the helicopter story. Um, because I think it's such a great analogy for healing from an eating disorder and for families to understand that the eating disorder has a purpose. Yeah. And it's there for a reason. And you have to, you have to find out the reason and be able to replace that reason, or people aren't going to want to let go of that life preserver. Right. You know, and so um, and so I I love the fact that you put that in there because I I send my little terrible copy of the helicopter story to all my family so that they so that they have a better understanding.
SPEAKER_01Um I have my my my textbook I see here with all the yellow pages, as that book is a page the rife and rife.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's like the 1990s, right? Yeah, it's great. Great though. It's great. Um what was I gonna ask you? Um, I'm I'm curious about um and and tell me about your podcast because you've been doing a podcast for three years. Getting there, yes.
SPEAKER_01So when my book came out, it was the week before the world shut down. And as I pivoted with other ways to get my message out there and my book, I thought a podcast, which was one of the things I always said I would never do. But you know what? It's nice to have more resources for people. So my podcast, the Inusar Trap Podcast, is on now bi-weekly. It was weekly up until the end of 2022, but each episode is 15 to 25 minutes, and I have all kinds of guests on. I have clinicians in the field, I have clinicians in other fields, I have parents who have lost children to eating disorders. And I really like to be able to have it be a platform for learning in regards to how they can better serve the person in their life that is struggling. And it's been fun. I think it's been a way to connect with people I haven't been able to see or speak to in quite some time, but also learning other tidbits of things that they like to do that where they're not just identified as this specific profession. Um, yeah, it's been it's been really wonderful, and I've had great feedback from it. And yeah, I'm just trying to be able to continue to be creative with it as well.
SPEAKER_00How do you feel like the because you've been in the field a long time, and how do you feel like it's changed over the years?
SPEAKER_01Well, when I first started my feet, my in my field, um, and in the field, I should say, there were not as many non-diet approach weight inclusive providers. So it's really wonderful to see how that area has expanded and grown. So I've been in practice, I've been doing this coming on 26 years, and I started my career when the first edition of Intuitive Eating came out. Now it's the fourth edition. So, like the term haze health at every size, I never knew that term. I don't even know if it existed back then. I mean, I think about it, I've only really known about it and been as a part of being a haze provider, I would say for 15 years. Um, I think people are more expressive, and there's a lot more political um things I would say now. It was it was such a weight normative approach. And I know when I started my career with the first edition of intuitive eating, and I was working at Cedar Sunday Medical Center, and I would want to practice on the patients that I would be called in to see things that I had learned in intuitive eating, and I would put it in my chart notes, which whether it was quote unquote the right or wrong way, it was my way because I was so excited and passionate about it. And being called in to the chief clinical dietitian's office, them questioning me, like, what does this mean, Robin? You're asking, like, how did this feel in their body? Like, you're being called in for uh two grams so like a specific reason, and I will do what I'm required to do, but then I'll veer into my way. So I think to myself, wow, if I were to start my career now as a new young dietitian working in the hospital, I don't think I would have been working in a hospital for five years where they would have kept me for five years, because either I would have left or they would have said, say la vie to me. So I think it's a lot different now, and it's great to see how there are many new younger providers that are interested in being inclusive and the language and not putting people on a diet and wanting to not harm them because we're all trained in this mold as registered dietitians, and more and more programs are expanding their approach and philosophies. And it's great to see how, like with my book, it's a required reading at several universities in the dietetics program, in the psychology um department, and in the exercise physiology department. So I see that there's more headway that way. And I think, well, gosh, this is over 20 years. What will the next 20 years look like?
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, who knows? More exciting things to come. Yeah. Uh I just want to thank you for what you do in the eating disorder world. I think you're out there, you're so active, and um people need help with education, you know, that um dietary education. So I want to thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, John. You know, it's been my heart and soul and my mission. And I feel like this is what I was put on this planet to do. And, you know, clients ask, Do I have children? And I say, you know, I have two senior four-leggeds, I have a husband, but I say my clients are my children. I've really like dedicated my life to helping people, and it's just been wonderful. And I love it so much, and I'm so happy that I'm in our field and I chose this career path.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. Um, yeah, I have four four-legged children. So um anything fun that you'd like to tell us about you that you haven't shared?
SPEAKER_01Anything fun. A fun fact. That's my question. I always ask. I know no one's ever asked me. Well, a fun fact, I'll tell you, you might know this, but I think especially since a lot of the listeners are dancers, since I grew up with a mom who was an amazing dancer, she was a Vegas dancer, and she used to choreograph the Rams cheerleaders. And I always felt very uncomfortable and awkward to dance around her. My parents were always in dance contests, West Coast swing. Over the summer, I had a big birthday. I had my 50th birthday, and I took dance lessons for eight months because I thought my mom had two full knee replacements and I want to be able to dance with her and have my father from heaven smile because he would never have believed that I was like, okay, I'm gonna be vulnerable, I'm gonna take these dance lessons to be able to learn disco and hustle and even hip hop so I could dance with my mom. And it's it's um definitely out of the box for me, like the whole party, the whole thing was because for people that know me know I'm not into bright colors and sparkle and glitter and sequence. I was literally the opposite, you know, low cleavage, like everything I'm not, and had just this great time to be able to do this with my mom.
SPEAKER_00So it's very special, very special, very funny because my mom did the choreography for the Cincinnati Bengal cheerleaders. Oh wow! So you and I have a have a kindred uh connection. Um I just want to thank you again for being on the podcast and uh for everything that you do to contribute to the eating sort of world, for your book, for your podcast, and for the work that you do with clients. So um thank you very much, Robin. I really appreciate it. And you know, to the to the listeners on Tutu Thin, as always, um thank you for listening. You can always reach me through my website at tutothin.com or dontheodore.com. We want to thank Robin for being on and again have a wonderful day and thanks for listening.
