Sara:

Welcome to Steele watching, which is a podcast for Remington Steele fans. My name is Sara, and I am broken. Got taken out by a merry-go-round at the fair.

Eric:

That that's pretty bad. That's

Sara:

pretty bad. It's I gotta make up a better story. Yeah.

Eric:

Well, I'm Eric. And last weekend, while my wife and I were at Talkeetna at a cafe celebrating our anniversary, I had an epiphany. I'm not old. I'm historic.

Sara:

You're You're just 25 with however many years experience. Right?

Eric:

That's right.

Sara:

Yeah. Know. I had heard 1 of my students say something about, we were talking about genre in our in the class and made a comment about, like, I had put up some posters of different movies of different genres. 1 of them was Die Hard. And she whispered to another classmate that that was an old movie. And I'm like, excuse me. Excuse me. That is not an old movie. It's vintage. Okay? It's vintage.

Eric:

It's all old. It's classic. Exactly.

Sara:

Yeah. Okay. Anyway. That's what we're going with anyway.

Eric:

Yes. That's what we're going with.

Sara:

So, yeah, today we're gonna be talking about season 4 episode 4 Grappling Steele. And this episode was 1st aired on 10/29/1985, and it was written by Rick Bittleman. And I don't recall if we've ever heard that name before.

Eric:

Doesn't sound familiar to me.

Sara:

Yeah. It doesn't sound familiar to me either. And then directed by Don Weiss, who we have. It's either Weiss or Weiss, and I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that

Eric:

right. But If it's pronounced the same as the big time big name director Robert Weiss, it's Weiss. But

Sara:

Right.

Eric:

I don't know. It could be Weiss.

Sara:

So I

Eric:

What were once vices are now habits.

Sara:

That's true. And I went with the TV Guide synopsis. Laura and Steele protect a popular pro wrestler who's been receiving death threats and has had a series of accidents. So that's

Eric:

In quotes.

Sara:

In quotes. Yeah. I have to do the air quotes.

Eric:

Accidents.

Sara:

And I I'm gonna have a couple of thoughts on the overall, like, wrestling of it all in this episode. I'm just curious. Do you watch wrestling at all? Do you watch

Eric:

No. I don't. No. I don't.

Sara:

So I I my husband and I do. So I've got some a little bit of insight. I obviously, this this is obviously not meant to be what at the time was the WWF and is now the WWE because it's not really big

Eric:

like, what, 3 or 4 times?

Sara:

Only twice, I think, but I could be wrong on that. I just know that they were of a WWF, which is the World Wrestling Federation. And then they had to change it because well, it's weird because they had used that name forever knowing that there was a World Wildlife Federation, and there was no problem until I don't remember when it became an issue. But for some reason, around like the February, the WWF, the World Wildlife Federation said, hey, you can't use that anymore. And so they changed to the WWE, which is World Wrestling Entertainment. And I I read up on it. Now, I don't remember the exact specifics of it. But I'm pretty sure that what Crunch is wrestling in is not that because it's not nearly, flashy enough to be, like, WWF, WWE standards. But there are other pro wrestling circuits that are not nearly as, like, sensationalist.

Eric:

So I think there are some places that have their own, like, local

Sara:

things. Yeah. Yeah. But this is this says pro, so I'm guessing it's 1 of because, there's also If the

Eric:

you're getting paid, you're a pro.

Sara:

True. True. But he's he's obviously pretty high profile because he like, he's dating an actress and he's like yeah. So I'm I'm guessing it's more like it's not like a little rinky dink thing. Right?

Eric:

It's only a a dinky thing. Rinky dinky. Not rinky dinky, it's dinky or rinky.

Sara:

There's different like, there's the WWE. There's world championship. There's extreme championship. There's like, at this time, the eighties, there would have been like yeah. So there was a bunch of different, like, other leagues that were

Eric:

Are are they called leagues?

Sara:

Yeah. I think so. Like, wrestling leagues, like yeah. So he's obviously in 1 of those because these types of these types of, like, smaller wrestling federations or whatever you wanna call it. There's continental wrestling. There's the AWA. There's Pro Wrestling USA. These are where they would get the characters that they would then promote up to the WWE or WWF as it would have been at this point. And that's when you'd get into the big big time where it's millions of dollars and eventually you're doing movies like The Rock and, you know, John Cena. So yeah. So but at this time, I'm guessing he's just in 1 of the other ones because anyway, that's

Eric:

We've never heard of him up here.

Sara:

Well, I mean, he's a fictional character. But you think if they were doing it as if it were the WWF, then you'd have a cameo from maybe a wrestler at the time, like, you have Hulk Hogan show up or something. But like yeah. So But yeah. So we open in a dimly lit wrestling ring. And this is another thing that tells me this is not the WWF because like, you know, the WWF got arenas, sold out arenas with like tens of thousands of fans, and this is not that. Although we do see like fans surrounding the ring, and they're they're cheering as 2 men beat the ever living snot out of each other. And in the audience, we see Mildred and Laura. Laura, I love I love the look on on Stephanie's face here because she looks like she's not sure what she's doing there. You know, she's just sitting there like, why am I here? And, of course, Mildred, she looks right at home. And I love this sort of little bit of Mildred's character that she's a wrestling You

Eric:

know, as far as Laura's response, I imagine part of it is just simply based on the fact that she recognizes it's all an act.

Sara:

Probably.

Eric:

I mean, you could not do to somebody the things that they do to each other and not be seriously injured, much less live. You know? Some of those things would would be absolutely deadly if they actually did them.

Sara:

Well, here's the thing, though. Like and and this is gonna we'll get into this, like, further in as we talk a little bit about it. But, yeah, it's scripted. It is scripted. Mhmm. But a lot of those moves, they do genuinely get injured. Well

Eric:

Oh, yeah. I because Like, they're happen, but but, yeah, it's not it's all it's all staged. Okay. That's that's the we'll use that word. Staged. To

Sara:

a point.

Eric:

Kinda like reality shows.

Sara:

Yeah. Well, I mean, it it's staged to a point, but, like, the actual wrestling in and of itself is not 100% perfectly choreographed. It can't be. What happens is the 2 of the the 2 wrestlers, they'll get in the ring and they know roughly how it's supposed to end. Right? It's supposed to end with this guy winning or that guy winning. And that usually involves like a signature move or something. But what they will end up doing, and this is a criticism I had a bit later on, but I guess I'll point it out now. You do it to me,

Eric:

so I get to do it to you.

Sara:

What they do end up doing is that they communicate with each other as they're wrestling. And you can't really tell from like the TV or from the stands, but like they are sending them each other signals to indicate what move they're about to do. And they're improvising on the spot. So a lot of that match that you're watching is improvised, is is the 2 of them. And that's how injuries sometimes happen because, yes, they practice with 1 another to make sure that they're able to do these moves safely, but stuff goes wrong all the time. Right?

Eric:

Like Sometimes somebody zigs when they should have

Sara:

Exactly. And it used to be like back in this time, they don't do this anymore. But back in this time, they used to actually cut themselves. They used to have little razors that they would hide on their person somewhere, and they'd cut, like, their head, with a with a razor because the head bleeds very, very liberally, even if it's a a superficial wound. So it would look more serious. Like, oh my god. He's bleeding from the head. But, you know, they don't do that anymore, obviously. But yeah. So they it is staged. It is an outcome that they know is is predetermined. But what you're seeing, the athleticism of it is real. Right. Because these are 2 like, 2 people, and they do often like, Brock Lesnar broke his neck. Like, he he had his neck broken while he was wrestling. He if you see the man, he's built like a truck, and his neck is, like, as thick as his head. But, yeah, they don't, they don't walk away without without getting some hurt on them. But Mildred, she loves it. She's having a great time. And Laura, she's

Eric:

just Can't you just see Mildred as as being somebody who really gets into wrestling? Yes. I can. That's why. And maybe even thinks it's real. Yeah.

Sara:

Well, because I I don't know if that illusion had been imagine it was because Steele knows it's not real, and he makes that comment about it being hyped. So I'm guessing that I don't know if anybody ever did think it was real, but I guess some people did. But, yes, she's

Eric:

think there are people who think it is real. Yeah.

Sara:

Fair enough. I I mean, I think most people that I know that are into wrestling I used to well, I still have like, I have a friend who was a huge wrestling fan, and he would talk about it all the time and and about, like, the whole idea of the storylines and everything else. And he knew it wasn't real, but that sort of added to the appeal for him, which I think is where it comes from for some people.

Eric:

But Okay.

Sara:

Yeah. We see Mildred. She's in the audience. She's having having a blast. She comments on how great the seats are as the man in the unitard who we later find out is, dangerous Daryl lands a nasty blow on the other guy. Few more blows and Mildred says that dangerous Daryl is is some hunk. Woof.

Eric:

Okay. She's not there for the wrestling.

Sara:

Well, I mean, there are definitely some women who are into it for the, tight tight little shorts or whatever. I personally don't see the appeal. I but I I'm I'm weird in that I don't see the appeal in, a lot of muscles on a guy. To me, like, if you if you look like a lumpy mattress, you need to take the knee off. You know, like if your neck is as thick as your head, you're at the gym too much. But, Mildred does not seem to mind. And it's clear that if you like, well, from watching the match, the dangerous Daryl is supposed to be what's called the heel, which is the bad guy, right? There's always supposed to be what they call a face and a heel. And the heel is the guy that is supposed to be the 1 that everybody boos. He's supposed to be the jerk and that's his purpose. And of course, the face is the good guy. He's the 1 that everyone's supposed to cheer for. So yeah, that's what and then Laura asks who his opponent is calling him his feathered friend. Oh. Yeah. He's and he's, of course, dressed as your stereotypical 1st Nations and indigenous person or Indian, and apparently, name is Chief Goody 2 Shoes. I mean okay. Sure.

Eric:

Hey. He's he's 1 of the good guys. I you know?

Sara:

Yeah. He's he's clearly the face. Yeah. Yeah. So goody 2 shoes is knocked down, and Mildred's on her feet booing loudly with the rest of the crowd. And Laura, like, she just looks mortified. She looks, embarrassed, and she's, Mildred, sit down, behave yourself. And Mildred's like, no. No. No. You're supposed to do this. And she's right. Like, Mildred Yeah.

Eric:

But it's still embarrassing.

Sara:

Mildred is behaving exactly how you're supposed to behave. She explains that dangerous to ail's a bad guy and you're supposed to boo. And then Laura, this is where Mildred kind of like catches herself in a lie. Because Laura says, thought you said this was your 1st time. And Mildred's like, well, maybe 1 other time.

Eric:

You're right. She started

Sara:

muttering it to herself. But yeah, it's clear she's there a lot. And I support that for Mildred because it's it's funny. I think it's good. So then we see the bell rings. The audience is on its feet again booing loudly. The announcer declares the winner and still number 1 challenger, the velvet vandal, dangerous Daryl. Popcorn is being thrown at Daryl and the audience is not happy. He grabs the microphone and he calls out crunch Kramer saying that the championship belt belongs to him if he's man enough to defend it. So there's the throw down, challenge that is always given. And then of course, a young man in a striped t shirt runs in and jumps into the ring calls him out. He says, You want me? You got me pal, or should I say sweetheart? They start fighting. Daryl manages to get him tied into the ropes, flipping him over as he does so. He bounces him up and down a few times until the guards grab him, and Crunch gets out from the ropes, and the guards hold him back because he yells at Daryl, Saturday night, right here. No holds barred, you wimp. So The theatrics is is, I think, what draws a lot of people to it. Like, that theatricality and the that stuff. Yeah. So

Eric:

yeah. Not me, but okay.

Sara:

Fair enough. I I don't know. I I'm not as like, I enjoy it. I could watch it. I know who the characters are. I know who the bad guys are. I usually know the storylines. I probably wouldn't watch it as often as my husband. Like, I'd probably watch just the big ones like WrestleMania and whatnot, but I think it's fun. It's you know? They drag him off as Daryl yells to get him off, and Crunch gets out of the ring. He sees Mildred, his face lights up, and he calls her hat pin Millie, which we later find out where that comes from.

Eric:

Well, can I address that now? Sure. Where did Mildred get a hat pin? I mean, nobody wore them. They haven't worn them for, what, a century.

Sara:

I'm gonna be honest. I don't know what a hat pin is. I well, I

Eric:

think it's what women used to put through through a hat and through their hair to hold a hat in place. I'm I'm not positive on that, but I think that's what it is.

Sara:

Hold on. I'm look I'm looking this up. What is a hat pin? A hat pin is a long ornamental pin with a sharp point designed, yes. You're right. Designed to hold a hat securely to a woman's head by piercing the hat and catching some of the wearer's hair. Yeah. Also served as a and it say it does say here, though, in addition to its decorative function with jeweled or elaborately designed heads, the hat pin also served as a practical item for self defense, allowing women to fend off unwanted male attention or poke wrestlers in the butt, apparently, because

Eric:

But I'm I'm gonna guess that nobody's really worn 1 for probably close to a century. So where did Mildred get 1?

Sara:

I don't know, but I like that she's got a gimmick. Like Well, yeah. She's known enough that it's not just that she carries this thing that she's got a nickname. That's Yeah. Oh, yeah. So Mildred's a bit embarrassed by this, and she introduces him to Laura. He shakes her hand excitedly saying, alright. You did it, Millie. Nice to have you on the team, miss Holt, tomorrow. And Laura, officially realizing she's been had, eats her popcorn and mutters, I know for the girls. Oh, it's good. Good for you, Mildred. You catch that case.

Eric:

I mean, you can't get them 1 way, do it under false pretenses.

Sara:

Exactly. So we we switch over to the office, and Laura is surprised to hear Crunch say that he is afraid for his life. He mentions he's a bit embarrassed.

Eric:

I think I don't have it completely in my notes here. This Steele is in the the room, what, with this scene. Correct? Yeah.

Sara:

Yeah. He comes in.

Eric:

Yeah. Because we have a missing scene. Hang on. Where is it? Here. Yes. Interior Remington Steele Agency offices day. Mildred jumps up from her desk as Remington breezes in towards Laura's office. Remington, morning, Mildred. Mildred, miss Holt is with the new client boss. I believe you wanted to get right to that Kelsey file. And Mildred thrusts a file at him trying to sidetrack him from Laura's office, but he steps around her with a move. So

Sara:

Okay.

Eric:

There is that.

Sara:

Yeah. Kind of it it does fit, but I can see why they maybe trimmed it if they had to for time. So, yeah, he's he's she's surprised that he's afraid for his life. And he mentions that he's a bit embarrassed. And then that's where Steele pokes his head in the door. Laura introduces him and Steele says he's had the pleasure. He asks to speak to Laura privately. They go into his office and he asks Laura if she's aware that he's already turned Mr. Kramer down. Laura's surprised and he adds that it was 2 days ago. You can still see the shoe prints on the carpet. Does I I don't the rules keep changing for them, but I do find it find it interesting that he turned down a client without telling her.

Eric:

Yeah.

Sara:

You know? I I mean, I I get that he does say they're supposed to be partners, but then she does also remind him that it's still her agency. So it's it's

Eric:

He's I don't probably just, you know, feeling his oats and and thinking, since I'm kind of the head of the agency, even though I'm not really, I should be able to turn down a a client, especially somebody like this, who's an obvious, you know, goofball. I have some

Sara:

thoughts on this later, but yeah. So he tells her to ask Mildred. They call Millie in, and Mildred apologizes to Steele saying that she knows the case has already been rejected, but she really thinks Crunch needs their help. So she went to the boss for a 2nd opinion. Can see the Push that in a little bit. Yeah. Just the face. And I love that they are still this is probably aside from the freeze, the most sort of continuous little storyline that we've had that the events from the 1st 2 episodes are still being felt because Mildred would never before have dreamed of going over Steel's head if he had turned a client down to Laura, even though she had seen their dynamic at work. She still saw him as this infallible hero type character. So now she's like, no. No. I went to the boss, the real boss. Yeah. Ouch. And he that's where he kind of like you can see the hurt on his face. It's not just that his ego is wounded. Like, he's actually hurt by this. Mhmm. And he does say the boss has spoken. And Laura points out she means me. Margaret says, And Steele tells her, you stay out of it. Wounded. He said, he says, I thought we had a partnership. And Laura says, we do, but it's still my agency, which we've talked about before. And right? And she has to be involved in all major decisions. And this is that that's fair. That statement is fair. Right. Because if he's gonna turn a client down, she at least deserves to know that that's Right. You know?

Eric:

Well and and she should also have have veto power.

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

You know?

Sara:

Again, it it is her, like, yeah. Financially, it's her butt on the line. So she adds that Mildred may be right as Crunch seems to be on the level. She tells him to excuse her and she goes back in to talk to Crunch. Mildred looks apologetically at Steele and says she's sorry. She was just trying to help. Inside the office, Laura points out to Crunch that he gets a lot of crank mail. She asks how he knows that these threats are serious. He tells her that 2 days ago, was working out when Zappo. Laura isn't sure what that Zappo. Right? It sounds like a Batman comic, like, you know?

Eric:

So precise a description in terms.

Sara:

It really is. Yeah. Like Zappo? I would have said, like, bam or I don't know. Not Zappo. That would not be the 1st word that comes to mind. She doesn't know what he means. So he demonstrates by getting down on the ground and simulating lifting barbells, I think. Not sure what the weight term is for that. But

Eric:

Yeah. I I think he's simulating lifting some I think they're called free weights. Yeah. It's it's the long bar with the weights on the end that yeah. Yeah.

Sara:

Yeah. He says the supports gave out leaving him with 400 across the throat. Steele walks in as he's doing this. He gets up and says that he would be dead for sure if his dad hadn't been there. Didn't know his dad was so strong, like seems I mean, obviously, we know that his dad's the 1 that's involved in this, but still. Yeah. Steele skeptically says, and when you check the supports you found, they've been tampered with. Right? Crunch asks how he knew, and Steele calls it a hunch. He motions for Laura to join him in his office again. She excuses herself and goes into the office. Steele tells her that this death threat is as transparent as his occupation and calls it pure hype.

Eric:

Yep.

Sara:

Here are my thoughts. Okay? I'm I'm curious about what you think it is. I was rather surprised that it was Steele not wanting to take the case and not Laura. And the reason for that is Steele loves flashiness. He loves being in the spotlight. He loves theatricality. He is the biggest drama queen on the planet. You would think that he would get so much of a buzz out of even if it's a sport he's not into, but just the the attention and everything being placed on him. Whereas Laura, you would think would be more skeptical because it is pure hype and and the the the fact that it is scripted and and whatnot. I don't know. It just seems odd that he and he's really antagonistic towards the whole situation, which is funny because he's a con man. His entire persona is is hype. You know? He's pretending to be someone he's not on a on a permanent basis.

Eric:

Well, I mean, I I maybe it's just that he he just doesn't like the the cut the kid, the guy crunch, you know, whatever you wanna call him. He's just he just doesn't like his personality, his his cockiness, his

Sara:

See, that's weird because I don't

Eric:

think he

Sara:

comes across as cocky. I think he comes across as, like, kinda sweet and just genuinely nonthreatening despite the fact that the guy's name is Crunch.

Eric:

Maybe a little slow in in in the respect of of he well, like, he he doesn't have the he he's at, like, a 16 year old or 14 year old level of maturity.

Sara:

Yeah. Like, he's he's naive. He's definitely naive and a little bit innocent about the world. But he's not I don't know. He's not arrogant. He's not a jerk. He's not walking around, going, look at how good I am. He's I don't know. I don't I just it's odd that he's so antagonistic towards this whole situation when he's living a lie on a daily basis. You think he would be a little bit more I don't know. He'd see a bit more of himself in it, but either way.

Eric:

Or it could just be that he he thinks that Laura might get the hots for him, and he just was trying to trying to avoid that possible scenario entirely.

Sara:

I mean, I don't know. I mean, like, Butch Bemis, it it it doesn't seem sometimes there's no accounting for taste. So I can't really tell how somebody's gonna react to somebody. But, yeah. So anyway, Laura doesn't see it that way. She thinks that she believes he's afraid for his life. He asks her based on what? She points out the gym incident, which he says could have been faked. And the letters could have been written by anyone even crunch with his limited vocabulary, which again, is not the case. He's a college graduate. He's not stupid. Well I mean, I I get that the assumption is usually made because he's big and athletic and he's muscles for days, but his dad especially keeps repeating that fact that he went to college. He's got a degree. He wanted his son doing something intellectual and instead he chose not to to go that route, which is, you know, a choice. But he's not stupid. So, I don't know.

Eric:

But, I don't know.

Sara:

It just seems it's like the like it's there for plot purposes, but thankfully, it doesn't last too long because once it becomes clear that there is a case, kind of just forgets that part of it. So, Laura accuses him of overreacting, and he accuses her of risking his good name. When has that ever worked for you, Steele? When has that ever worked is my question?

Eric:

Well okay. 1st of all, as Laura points out, it's not his good name. It's really hers.

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

And, you know, his comment about just in order to prove who's in charge here, she doesn't have to prove who's in charge.

Sara:

She

Eric:

is. It's as simple as that. She doesn't have to do anything because the fact is she is in charge.

Sara:

Yeah. And it almost seems like they're setting up yet another episode where there's a contest between them, and it just never that never happens. So it's a bit of an odd exchange.

Eric:

It's almost more like he is trying to prove that he's in charge, not Laura.

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

Because after all, it's his good name on the agency. You know? Right. Sure.

Sara:

Yeah. It's it's a weird this this just the opening couple scenes are a little weird. And then once the episode gets into its groove, it it's good. It's great. I actually really like this episode. But yeah, she says, if you're so concerned with your name, which incidentally I gave you, you could prove he's faking it or would a little legwork prove fatal to your system. He says, on the contrary, those are precisely my intentions. He stands up and flicks the plant away from his face. And I have to wonder, because you obviously was were looking at the script. I didn't get a chance. Was that in the script, or was that just a, like, a happy coincidence that the plant happened to be sort of right there?

Eric:

You know, I didn't look at that. What what I thought about was how much that reminded me of the episode where he was in the wheelchair and he Yeah.

Sara:

Yeah. He's hitting the

Eric:

flankus. His leg.

Sara:

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's it's quite funny. Like, the physical comedy is always quite good, and some of it obviously comes from him. So I just wondered if it was there or if he was just like

Eric:

Yeah. And no. There's there's no it just says Remington. To on the contrary, those are precisely my intentions. And as Remington exits, we go to the next scene, exterior Beverly Hills office building.

Sara:

Yeah. Yeah. He walks away, and we see Laura looking some somewhat amused as he kinda stalks off. But, yeah, it's funny. So we switch over to Shelby Sports Serve Incorporated, which is the gym. And it's or, well, the it's the business office that I'm assuming is maybe attached to the gym or I don't know if it's attached, but either way, he's in an office. He's looking at a lot of trophies for various sports. The man behind him, mister Shelby, points out that crunch is in some pretty impressive company. Steele picks up a basketball and reads, to art. Thanks for making it happen. Shelby says that was the year he broke the NBA record. I admit to not knowing any much about basketball at all, which is hilarious because it was invented by a Canadian, but I'm assuming Art is somebody famous in basketball. If there's anybody who knows? I should have looked this up, but like, I don't know who that is. I know who Michael Jordan is. I know who LeBron James is and, you know, the big names. But I don't Yeah.

Eric:

I don't know who that is. I don't know basketball.

Sara:

Yeah. It's really not not my my thing. So Yeah.

Eric:

I mean

Sara:

If anybody knows who that might be referring to, let us know. Send us an email. Steele brushes it off and walks towards the poster advertising the grudge match of the decade. Steele points out that promotion is the name of the game and the death threats must be part of it. Shelby takes offense to this, saying he loves wrestling too much to make a travesty of

Eric:

Excuse me. Definition of travesty is false, absurd, or distorted representation of something. Professional wrestling makes a travesty out of legitimate wrestling, you know, the kind of thing that they do in high school and in colleges. So by definition, he is making a travesty out

Sara:

of it. I mean yeah. But I think I think I think people again, I think most people know the difference between legitimate, what you would call, like, say Olympic wrestling versus the entertainment spectacle that is the

Eric:

That is w called wrestling.

Sara:

Yeah. That is called wrestling, but really isn't. It's mostly yeah. It Steele apologizes and comments on how Shelby also manages dangerous Daryl. He says that he has all the top contenders, and Steele says he bets he would love to wear Crunch's championship belt. Shelby agrees and Steele asks if there are any chances and Shelby says someday. Steele comments on how jealous Daryl must be and Shelby says naturally, that's what makes for a record breaking gate. Certain he's got all he needs, Steele thanks Shelby for the discussion on this fascinating, and he hesitates on the word sport and leaves. Yes. That was very pointed the way he did that. Then we switch over to the Golden Crest retirement home. Laura and Crunch are visiting his father. Crunch comments that when mom died, he found a place close to the gym for his pop. Laura says he's a very devoted son and Crunch says that he busted his buns to put him through college, so he owes him. They knock on the door and the voice from the other side calls out Mike. Crunch tells Laura that his real name is Mike Malinski. He opens the door and introduces Laura and he tells her to come in. Laura enters and it's Al Malinski, right? The dad?

Eric:

Yeah.

Sara:

Okay. I just wrote pop in my notes because they don't actually say his name until like 0.75 of the way through the episode. I couldn't remember. Yeah, Al says he heard a voice and thought it was Mary. He adds that she calls every day and always brings him ice cream. I gotta say, Mary, as, like, twisted as she is, she knows how to play like the dad. She's she's doing the right stuff there.

Eric:

Well You know? Manipulators are very good at manipulating. Let's just put it that way.

Sara:

True. Crunch, annoyed, reminds him that he and Mary are divorced. Al, also annoyed, says, I get the message. He tells Laura to sit down and he offers her some fruit. She says, no 1 asked about the accident. His dad says that his son sits down on the weights and all of a sudden, he's his supports look like a pretzel. He says the next thing he knew, he was strangling to death adding that, thank God he was there and miss and not miss whatnot in the silk pajamas. I gotta say, if he was really lifting 400 pounds and they fell on him Mhmm. I think his windpipe would have been crushed too fast for it to matter how quickly his dad lifted them off.

Eric:

Well, I guess it would depend on how much resistance he was able to hold. Because I can see where he would have been able to hold it off of his you know, keep it from crushing his windpipe and keep it off of it for a few seconds while he was holding it, but not be able to to lift it, you know, because he got caught by surprise his arms and hands or whatever were not in the correct position or or whatever. But Yeah. Mean, I it's it I can I can see it possible?

Sara:

But Okay. I don't know much about lifting weights.

Eric:

I don't I don't either. Yeah.

Sara:

Okay.

Eric:

Crunchy. I don't like I I don't like the idea of of doing it.

Sara:

No. Me either. I'm not

Eric:

a fan. Exercise is highly overrated. And Agreed. Yeah. It will kill you. It will

Sara:

kill you. Exactly. You'll eventually die, and and you you can say in that way.

Eric:

That has been an advocate for exercise has died.

Sara:

Exactly. Jim Fix. We talked about Jim Fix. Right? Yeah. Did a jogging book, jogging video, dropped

Eric:

Lane. Dead.

Sara:

There you go. Don't exercise kids. It's bad for your health. So Crunch is also irritated at this comment, and he says her name is Whitney. He clarifies to Laura, Whitney Chambers, my girlfriend. Now, this next couple lines, I got a little confused by. Laura is surprised, and she clarifies the soap opera star, and then he responds, guess you don't read the papers. But wouldn't the fact that she knew who Whitney Chambers was indicate that she does read the papers?

Eric:

Well, yeah.

Sara:

Like, that was an odd line, I thought.

Eric:

Well, he he specifically references People Magazine, but it it could be that he's aware of Whitney Chambers or

Sara:

No.

Eric:

No. No. Is aware of Whitney Chambers

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

As a soap opera star, but not necessarily that the 2 of them are linked, Whitney and Crunch. You know, they could have been keeping it on the down low.

Sara:

And Doesn't sound like it's Somebody seems like they're trying to make a big thing out of it.

Eric:

Well yeah. But, you know, it could just be a recent development or they had had been successful at keeping it quiet, but then somebody in People Magazine outed them or whatever. So

Sara:

Well, still not satisfied. Al says, compared to Mary, she's a whatnot. Crunch reiterates that it's over between him and Mary, but his father doesn't wanna hear it. He tells him that lots of people get back together after a divorce, but Crunch shakes his head and reminds him that she tried to kill him coming out of the courtroom.

Eric:

Nice lady. Yes.

Sara:

This gets Laura's attention. Maybe something that he should have mentioned earlier. Just a thought. Someone's trying to kill me. Couldn't possibly be the ex wife that tried to kill me, could it? I I

Eric:

don't see how how anybody could possibly assume that.

Sara:

So I got vibes, and I don't know if, you know much about this, but, like sorry. I just knocked over that. There. Stop it. Stop it. Hold on. Grab some technical difficulties. There we go. Okay. I watching this episode kinda got vibes that it felt a bit similar to what's going on now between, Taylor Swift and the football player that she's now engaged to, Travis Kelce. I don't know if that's how you pronounce his last name, but Okay. Plays for the Kansas City Chiefs. And they've endured a lot of criticism. And I don't normally pay attention to this stuff because it doesn't I don't care. But I've just seen a lot of like I've just seen a lot of takes on it from people I know come pop up in like Facebook feeds and things like that. And they've gotten a lot of criticism because there's a lot of people that watch football that feel like she's a distraction from his career. Whenever they show shots of the Chiefs playing, they'll show like a shot up to her watching from her box. And it has elevated It's arguably elevated his profile a ton because I didn't know that name. I wouldn't have known that name from Adam had it not been for the fact that I saw these commentaries and everything else. But that seems to irritate some people and really make them angry that she's kind of giving him that lift. And I kind of felt like that was sort of similar to the plot of this episode that there's a lot of people that don't want to see Crunch and Whitney associated with 1 another because they think it'll be either detrimental to 1 of the other's careers or 1 person's getting more out of it than the other. Mhmm. And so I don't know. Thought that was an interesting parallel like that we're seeing in real time.

Eric:

Well, obviously, Taylor Swift and this Travis Kelce guy are deliberately trying to exploit the script of this episode.

Sara:

Yeah. Yeah. They're both big Remington Steele fans, so they're 100%

Eric:

And realize they realize we can boost our careers by yeah. Well, what's funny about that to

Sara:

me is is for 1, neither 1 of them really needs the other to boost their careers. They're both very famous in what they do. Right? Like, he's he's Apparently. I mean, I'm not a football fan, but, like, he's making$30,000,000 a year or whatever it is playing for the Chiefs. They won a Super Bowl. I think it was last year or the year before. I don't know. But like, they won it recently. And she makes She's a billionaire now. Like, I don't know if it's because she makes more than he does, and her fame is arguably larger than his because whether or not you listen to her music, you at least know the name. I don't know. But there's there is a lot of, like, heavy antagonism towards Yeah.

Eric:

Well, I I can see that potentially there's 2 groups of people that would have antagonism toward that. 1 being the Taylor Swift fans who who think that Kelsey or Trav whatever his name is

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

Yeah. Is is has hooked up with her because it helps his public profile his name recognition. And then there's the football fans for, you said, Kansas City Yeah. Yeah. That are probably thinking it's affecting his game. And and they see things and they say, see, he wouldn't have done that before Taylor Swift.

Sara:

You know,

Eric:

he started dating her, but he's not paying attention to the game like he used to. And

Sara:

he's Well, actually, it's funny because he got better once they started dating. They they won a Super Bowl. Like, they they it went the other way, not but it was more that they thought that she was drawing attention away from him because the the cameras would pan to her during a game and show her wearing her Chiefs jersey and whatever else. And I think there was sort of like

Eric:

Well, I I think also there are people who, rightly or wrongly, feel that when a celebrity is getting a lot of camera

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

Coverage at an event that they're they have no real involvement in.

Sara:

She doesn't.

Eric:

Yeah. They're they're they're ex exploiting the event for their own personal promotion.

Sara:

Yeah. That that's definitely the assumption that was coming from, which is

Eric:

not is Taylor Swift going to do, and what is she going to to contribute to this game? Nothing. Why should she get any more camera time than that guy over there or that lady over there or that kid over there? I mean

Sara:

Well, she shouldn't, but it that 1 that part's not her decision. Right? That's the obviously, people that

Eric:

are Right. But if she wasn't there, then then the people making those decisions wouldn't be doing this.

Sara:

So True. But, I mean, like, she's a a person going to watch her boyfriend play and support him. Right? So, like, there's that kind of, like, push and pull.

Eric:

Why why doesn't she watch sports like everybody else does on I

Sara:

don't know. I don't know. I I'm not Taylor Swift, but I just I got a lot of like parallels with I realize this is a scripted episode from 40 years ago, but it just felt like this was similar in the sense that the media has sort of written 1 of them off as a vapid celebrity and the other off as a sort of, quote unquote, dumb jock. And neither of those things are true necessarily, but that's kind of how they're being painted because we need characters. We need caricatures. Right?

Eric:

Okay. Here's something I just thought of as you were saying that, and you triggered with that comment. How to how to put this without you you're not a guy, so you may not totally understand. I know that's a surprise to you, but that's the truth. You're not a guy. When I was in high school, I noticed the same thing that a lot of other guys who are not jocks notice. Jocks got 3 or 4 girlfriends, and they're all knockouts. And me, them, us, not only can we not get 1 of those, we can't get 1 of, you know, these not so hot girlfriends, and he's got 4 hanging off of him. You know? It's it's it's not fair.

Sara:

I I gotta say things were a little bit different when I was in high school because we we all made fun of the jocks. Like, nobody thought they were cool.

Eric:

Well, nobody thought they were cool either. I mean Nobody But they got the girls.

Sara:

Girls didn't really date them in my high school. In fact, we were, banned from attending our school's games because there was a lot of vandalism that took place. But I think Canada and The US differ in terms of how we view sports too, especially with high school and college. Like, it's not a big deal here. I couldn't even tell you what the name is of our school football team at the school I work at. I really couldn't. We're no idea. Well But it is not as big like, I know in The US, it's like Friday night lights. Like, the whole town will come out and watch a team play.

Eric:

Well, it depends on on where you're at. I mean, the high school I went to, that wasn't the case. We we had a decent crowd for the football games, and the only reason I know that was because I was in the band. But yeah. I mean, there was just this animosity toward the jocks who got all the girls, got all the attention in the school newspaper, you know, all this other stuff. And so you see that happening now with Taylor Swift and this

Sara:

Travis Kelce.

Eric:

Travis guy. So a lot of that same old resentment could be coming

Sara:

back That's true. You're probably right. I just it's interesting how it parallels these 2 characters in this episode because Al Molinsky calls her a whatnot and basically writes her off as a a ditz. And there are others who feel like she's damaging his career and everything else. So it's yeah. I don't know.

Eric:

Well, don't continues to recycle plots and realize This

Sara:

is true. This is true. I think it's a a lot of this episode is and the other episodes we talked about are commentary on stuff that actually happens. So yeah. So they're coming out of the retirement home, and Laura asks if he was serious about his ex wife. Krenish says no, but he adds that she is a bit ticked because she dragged him back to court to get more alimony, the judge reduced it to a buck a year. Now that That's I gotta say is hilarious. Like, that you see that the judge sees that this is just a woman who's digging for gold and digging, digging, digging, digging. And finally, he's like, you know what? No. A buck.

Eric:

Well and presumably, he was able to do that because she's got her own fairly substantial source of income. I mean, because typically, you wouldn't have somebody, a judge, do that in in a divorce case unless they have some some income. And as you said, they're obviously just trying to extort.

Sara:

Yeah. Well, it doesn't seem like she's got much income because she's selling the house, and she when she goes on that, like, rant later on in the episode, like, she she's she basically says she's totally impoverished. So

Eric:

She's not she's I don't think she's selling the house. Is she?

Sara:

Yeah. There's a for sale sign right outside the house when they ring the bell.

Eric:

Oh, okay.

Sara:

Yeah. I missed that. So, yeah.

Eric:

Oh, yeah. You're right. It it is. Yeah.

Sara:

Yeah. And Laura like, Laura does comment that it sounds a bit harsh, and then Crunch says that she had been dragging him into court every 3 months to get the judge to get the ante, and he assumes the judge was just fed up with it. So I'm guessing that the judge did something that really he wasn't supposed to, but she had just, like, wasted so much of his time. He was just like, you know what? Forget it, lady. You get you get nothing.

Eric:

You get Well, and probably every time that she drug him in, she came up with a more fantastical

Sara:

Yeah. Exactly.

Eric:

Excuse for why she needed this, you know, and it's like, because I chipped my toenail, and it cost me $50 every time I go in to have them redone, and I've gotta redo them every every 2 days and you know?

Sara:

Yeah. Sorry. Not buying it. Uh-uh. Nope. Yeah. So he assumes the judge was, like I said, fed up with it. Laura clarifies it, but she did say that she wanted to see you dead. And he laughs and says, yeah, right after she threw the courtroom steno machine at me.

Eric:

He says she didn't wind up in jail before now.

Sara:

Right? Like and then he goes on to say that the judge left her with nothing except for the life insurance policy on him. Again, how did this not come up sooner? And okay.

Eric:

Here's my question. That's what I'm talking about when Steele turned him down because he's just not

Sara:

Yeah. This does sort of

Eric:

You can't take him seriously because he he doesn't he he doesn't view anything seriously. He doesn't think. He just this more

Sara:

naive than anything else, but it feels a bit like marty, but, like, without the sociopathic tendencies. Right? Like but I here's what I'm wondering, and I don't know. I is it common to keep a life insurance policy on an ex spouse? Because I would think that if you, like, had a life insurance policy as a couple and they knew divorce, that you would cancel the policy. Like, I I don't know why you

Eric:

Unless it was part of the divorce settlement

Sara:

that he if he ever remarries that whoever his new spouse is would be entitled He

Eric:

doesn't have to have just 1 life insurance policy. He can get multiples.

Sara:

I didn't know that.

Eric:

But I I suppose it's also possible that it's 1 she took out while they were married and has kept paying the premiums on. But I I would imagine it's more along the lines of part of the divorce settlement was that he had to keep her on a life insurance policy with a value of x number of dollars for x number of years.

Sara:

I didn't know you could do that.

Eric:

Well, I mean, judges can do a lot of stuff. I mean

Sara:

I mean and that gives her a pretty intense motive to want him dead.

Eric:

Oh, sure.

Sara:

She asks she asks him how much it is, and he he pauses and admits it's 1,000,000 even, which she then says, all those zeros can add up to quite a motive for some people. So she says it's time they dropped in on his ex. Then we see them standing outside. Again, it's a nice house. It's got a for sale sign on the front lawn. They ring the bell a few times. They don't get an answer. So Laura suggests talking to the neighbors and see if they know where she is. Crunch tells her that he's going to stay there as she's turned the neighbors against him. The moment Laura is out of sight, however, he turns and goes to the window and pushes it open. He's a dummy. Get what you mean about like, this seems more naive to than it is necessarily that he's stupid. Because again, you can be naive and still be smart. It's 1 of those, he's he's life stupid, but he obviously is intelligent enough to get the the college degree. Right?

Eric:

Well, I've got I've got I've got a a term for people that are book smart, but life stupid and as educated idiots.

Sara:

Okay.

Eric:

Yeah. Doesn't seem to even be book smart because if you were book smart, you would think about these things. And you're talking to a detective, somebody's trying to kill me. I suppose I should have mentioned, yeah, that my ex wife tried to kill me and she's got 1000000 dollar life insurance policy on me. I mean, who who would have thought that would have anything to do with this? You know, that's that's how he comes across.

Sara:

Like that but that's how Artie came across too with the whole, like, no. He would never wanna hurt Ray would never wanna hurt me. You know? He's my pro like, I'm his protege, blah blah blah. I I think it's more of a naive, like, oh, she didn't really mean it.

Eric:

She didn't Maybe that's You know? Maybe that's it. Maybe Steele is remembering that situation.

Sara:

Could be.

Eric:

Yeah. And he's seen parallels, and he just doesn't wanna get involved. I I I don't know.

Sara:

So he sneaks into the house. He looks around. Nobody's there. So he goes into the living room and over to the mantle where his championship belt is sitting. So he obviously wants that back. Yeah. Which is kinda funny. In the distance, he hears a woman call his name. He turns and looks like a deer in headlights as the woman, Mary, sees him in the living room. Now, I looked up this actress because we see her later on when she shows up at the wrestling match. Mhmm. And she's easily at least a decade older, if not more. And I was trying to find out just how old she was compared to him because he looks like he's 25. Right?

Eric:

Yeah. He is pretty young.

Sara:

And she's she looks like she might be my age. Like, she looks like she's in

Eric:

her forties. In her forties.

Sara:

And I couldn't find because she she was under a slightly different name in this episode, and I looked it up both names, and I could not find a date of birth at all. And it doesn't look like she's really been in much aside from this. So I was really quite curious. I was I tried to find out how old she was, but I wasn't able to do it. But she does definitely look a lot older than him. So it's it's interesting. I you kinda wonder how they get together, how they end up married.

Eric:

Well, you know, that age gap and that combination does happen. And yeah, as far as how they happen to get together, that that would be an interesting that would be an interesting fan fiction. Yeah.

Sara:

So she's in a robe, and she has a a towel on her head. She looks like she's just gotten out of the shower, obviously. Mhmm. Her face lights up as he says, hello, Mary. And she says, you've come back. He tells her it was just to get his championship belt, adding that he did ring the bell. She tells him that she can't tell him how long she's waited for this day and how happy she is. He seems really surprised to hear this.

Eric:

Yeah. Don't

Sara:

think so. She tells him she was in the shower upstairs when she heard a noise. So she ran down, and there he was climbing through the window. And then as she speaks, she gets more and more animated, boarding the bus to crazy town.

Eric:

Oh, yeah.

Sara:

She exclaims an intruder. And then she says she grabbed the gun that he bought to protect herself. She reaches into the drawer and produces the gun. Right? And then she says, but I couldn't see, so I just closed my eyes and screamed. She yells this. She pulls the trigger and shoots something on the fireplace next to the belt. He ducks, and she shoots again, this time missing, but getting a vase for

Eric:

Vaz. Okay. I did a quick

Sara:

Oh, did you find out how old she is?

Eric:

Yeah. I I used something called Google.

Sara:

I tried that too. Shush. Didn't work.

Eric:

And I I typed in her I put in her name along with the term date of birth.

Sara:

I tried that too.

Eric:

December 1933.

Sara:

Okay. So how old is he then? That would be the next question. Hold on. Episode guide. Let's see who can Google faster.

Eric:

Gary Casper. You know, the thing about this guy is he looks familiar.

Sara:

He does. I feel like I've seen him in something.

Eric:

Yeah. He was a tough

Sara:

guy too. He's born in 1958. So yeah. Yeah. She's 20 years older than him.

Eric:

Well, more than that. Yeah. 25.

Sara:

So she was, what, 1930 what? '33. 33? Oh my gosh. So, yeah, she'd be

Eric:

I guess likes them young.

Sara:

2. Shoot in 52 here.

Eric:

She likes them young, and he likes them older.

Sara:

Wow. You gotta wonder what the casting decision was there. Because, like, he was 27. She was 52. I just wonder what would make the the casting director go, yeah. We want this woman for this part despite the fact that nobody's ever gonna buy this relationship. Like, I don't buy it that they were ever involved. Well I don't know. It's just kinda annoying.

Eric:

And it also makes you wonder what we didn't get. I didn't see anything in the script from the look through I saw that would indicate any logic behind that particular casting. But

Sara:

I mean, it's no wonder Al Milinski likes her. They're almost the same age. Well, that's true. He could

Eric:

date it. That that that goes into a weird, weird

Sara:

little thing. Like, that's what I'm saying. It's it's a little odd anyway.

Eric:

Dad wants the son to remarry the ex wife because he's got the hots for her.

Sara:

Yeah. Could be. Anyway, Laura hears the shots while talking to a neighbor, tells the person to call the police. Meanwhile, Mary's still shooting and yelling at him to look at this place. The pain is peeling. He jumps over a chair and tries to open a door, but it won't open. She corners him yelling about how the lawn is brown because she can't afford a gardener. She has him at point blank range now, and she's about to fire when Laura tackles her and grabs the gun.

Eric:

Now here's here's the thing. I mean, she's living in 1000000 dollar house. Undoubtedly, she got a very, very generous cash settlement at the divorce, you know, 0.5 the assets.

Sara:

Oh, she would. Yeah. For sure.

Eric:

Because I think California is a community property law.

Sara:

Yeah, it is.

Eric:

Yeah. State. So she would've gotten about 0.5 of the assets. She was probably very well set for most of the rest of her life. If And she's down to complaining about the paint in the lawn, you have to wonder where did all that money go? Where did all the assets that she'd gotten out of this divorce? Where did they all go that she has to now sell the house because she can't afford, you know? Yeah. Problems problems of entitled people.

Sara:

Right? Like, I don't know. You think if you couldn't upkeep the house with your with whatever you got, with whatever your income is, that you would sell the house, which she is now doing to be fair. But you would sell the I would that would be my 1st move, would be to sell the house and just downsize to something I could afford. Yeah. But, obviously, she doesn't wanna do that. She wants to keep whatever lifestyle she had when she was with Grunch, and

Eric:

she's willing pay for it. She would never get fact that she

Sara:

is nutcase. Oh, she's she oh, she's

Eric:

She's totally off the deep end.

Sara:

I mean

Eric:

She's a fluke. She's certifiably insane.

Sara:

She's a few smarties short of a box. That's for sure. Yeah. So, yeah, sitting up, Laura asked Crunch if he has any questions about a motive. So, yeah. We're at the gym earlier and we see Laura come in. She calls to mister Steele who is with Mildred and tells him that she hates to blow holes into his hype theory, but they are holding his ex wife at the police station for attempted murder and now it's up to him to press charges. Steele doesn't get a chance to react because they hear a call for help. They go running and they see a man trying to open the door of the sauna. Steam is pouring out of it and somebody is trapped inside. They pull on it and eventually it opens and a man falls to the ground seemingly dead. I don't get saunas. I don't understand the appeal of a sauna.

Eric:

I don't know.

Sara:

Can't fathom wanting to go into a room that is, like, hotter than hot and sweat on purpose. Yeah. I don't know. That's just me.

Eric:

No. It it just it does not sound like a good time.

Sara:

I've I've been in 1, and it was awful. Like, it was like, you could no wonder they have to sit on the towels. The benches are like they burn you. They burn your flesh. I don't know how that's fun, but it apparently is because people do it. But, yeah. Sonos will kill you. Exercise will kill you. Sonos will kill you. We can see it in this episode. Yeah. So he is wearing Crunch's robe, but the body is much smaller than Crunch. The man not even looking at the victim assumes it's Crunch and goes off running yelling, Crunch Kramer's dead. Call the cops. Dude, the guy's a celebrity, and you're just gonna run off yelling, he's dead. He's dead.

Eric:

This guy must work for the media.

Sara:

Yeah. Clearly.

Eric:

Facts. Facts? We don't need facts. We've got a story.

Sara:

Yeah. Exactly. Behind them, we hear a noise a voice asking what all the noise is, and they turn, and it's Crunch in a towel. Steele flips the victim over, and it's revealed to be Arthur Shelby. Crunch is shocked, telling him that they were supposed to talk business in the steam room. Again, I don't know about you. And maybe this is a guy thing. I don't know. But, like, when I think about talking business, I don't think about doing it wearing nothing but a towel. That's just No.

Eric:

No. I I I've never understood that whole trope. To me, yeah, that's not I mean, if that's a guy thing,

Sara:

then Then I guess you're not a

Eric:

Get my wallet and turn in my guy card because that does not appeal to me.

Sara:

It's weird.

Eric:

Mean, that's like sitting on the toilet and talking on the cell phone.

Sara:

Right? Yeah. That's weird too. We've gone over this.

Eric:

Okay. I'm sorry. I just offended a bunch of listeners. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's okay. You can do that. Just don't do it with me, please.

Sara:

Yeah. Same. Same. So Steele points out that his ex wife isn't responsible for this 1. So yeah. And we have a a scene switch. And at the gym, we see Mildred shoo away all the onlookers while the coroner takes Shelby away. Laura picks up a parking token commenting on it as Steele admits that his hype theory is looking a bit pale. And, I mean, obviously I'm kidding. Yeah. Obviously, the parking token turns out to be a legitimate clue, but I always find it funny watching shows like this where they pick up something off the ground and they're like, a clue. And it's like, or somebody else could have dropped that. It's a parking token. Pretty much everybody gets 1. So yeah.

Eric:

I've never had 1.

Sara:

Well, I mean, if if

Eric:

there's I a get the little ticket stub that I I set in my car, but I'm gonna get hulking.

Sara:

Well, okay. But it would be a ticket stub if if it were in 2025.

Eric:

Just think carry it with you? You just leave it in the car.

Sara:

Well, some of them actually, you have to pay inside, at least where we are. Like, of the parking garages

Eric:

be a Canadian thing.

Sara:

Yeah. You have to actually bring it in and or you can get it validated and not have to pay at all. So No. Yeah. Okay. Anyway Really? But I just find it funny that they could pick up something, and it's, like, it's automatically a clue, not just something that somebody dropped. Laura points out that someone obviously jammed the latch, so the person inside couldn't get out, saw the robe, assumed it was Crunch. She asked if he has any theories. He does. He mentions danger is sterile. He describes him as the heir apparent to Crunch's throne and the man he came to see. He wonders where he was when Crunch was being parboiled.

Eric:

You know, I I get people in my car as passengers, you know, tourists. And, you know, you get the ones from Florida, and and then you also get the ones from, like, Texas or New Mexico

Sara:

or Yeah.

Eric:

Yeah. Or state southern states that are hot, but not muggy and humid.

Sara:

Right. Yeah.

Eric:

And I don't know. We I may have said this before, and they they always but it's a dry heat. You know? And my line my response is always, it doesn't matter. Baked or broiled, you're still cooked.

Sara:

And I I've said this before, but I do understand the difference because we have a very humid heat in Ontario. And it's like, you go out and you can, like, taste the air. It's so

Eric:

Dead is dead.

Sara:

Like well, okay. Yes. But I'm just saying in terms of a preference, I would prefer a dry heat over muggy any day. But Well yeah. Harbroiled. That's a good word though. Harbroiled. I like it. Yeah. So meanwhile, as they drag the body out, we hear someone cry out for crunch. A blonde young woman runs over to the body and throws herself on it crying hysterically. Behind her, Crunch calls out to her, Whitney, and she stands up looking shocked and pulls the towel back, even more surprised that it's Shelby. Laura, Steele, and Mildred follow behind as she throws herself into his arms in apparent relief. Laura tells Steele who she is, Whitney Chambers, the star of Rage to Live.

Eric:

You know, soap opera titles are so ridiculous.

Sara:

I just love it. I love that as the name because, like, it just I mean, I don't watch soap operas. I am not a soap opera person. The closest I've ever come to watching a soap opera was when I was in high school. I had a friend whose grandmother was right across had a house that was right across the street from the high school. And so we would sometimes go over to her grandmother's for lunch because she would make us stuff. And she always had all my children on. So for about an entire semester, even like, not through no fault of my own. I knew the to all my children simply because it was on in the background, and we were there for lunch. And it was as ridiculous as you would think. But, like and but those soap operas have been on forever. Like, all my children has been on for decades. And so has stuff like trying to think of some of the others. There was General Hospital. There was, like, Days of Our Lives. Actually, maybe that was the 1

Eric:

that watched. To live, Edge of Night.

Sara:

To live. Yeah.

Eric:

And then Edge of Night has an interesting story because that originally back in the days of radio, there had been a apparent apparently have been a Perry Mason radio series.

Sara:

Okay.

Eric:

And when it they decided to move it to television, they split it. And the soap opera elements of the radio show became edge of night, and then the detective aspects of it became Perry Mason TV show. Now the original novels didn't have all this romance stuff, but apparently, the radio radio version of it, they they got into that old soap opera thing. So yeah.

Sara:

Yeah. And, I mean, that's where soap operas come from is the old radio shows where they would advertise soap in between. And and that's why they're continuous It's why they're continuous the way they are too because on the radio, every day, you'd get it. It would continue from the day before, and you were listening to a constant sort of unfolding narrative. And that just sort of translated over to TV. So it was really is its own art form in a way, whether or not you like it or you don't. Like, it's

Eric:

You know, you you gotta you gotta give the actors and actresses of those shows a little bit of respect and some props because

Sara:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Eric:

They do what? Some of those are, like, hour shows, I think.

Sara:

Yeah. They're I think they're all

Eric:

an hour. So they have to memorize Yeah. An entire episode's script worth of lines every single day.

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

It's genius. A show like Reyman the Seal where okay. It's we we spend a whole week on 1 of snow. It's every day.

Sara:

And, I mean, I don't know if I've mentioned this before. I might have, but Sara Michelle Geller prior to getting Buffy was on All My Children, I believe.

Eric:

Drink. Drink. Buffy reference drink.

Sara:

This is technically an All My Children reference. But, yeah, she was on All My Children. She played a name a character named Kendall something or other. And when she when Buffy did start filming, they called it jokingly, they called it Buffy the weekend slayer because the show often ran so over time that they would never get any chance to sleep. And Sara Michelle Gellar was often referred to as a complete pro because she never needed, it seemed like she never needed to sleep. But I'm assuming that was probably due to her background in soaps because, yeah, like you said, it's every day you're getting new pages and you're doing the, you know, whatever. And like, I don't know. The 1 that's the most ridiculous, the absolute most ridiculous is Passions. Have you ever heard of this show? Okay. So this show started when I was probably like late teens, early twenties. And I didn't watch it, but I had friends that did and were so obsessed with it that by osmosis, they would tell me storylines and things like that. It was the most like, think of the most ridiculous storyline that a soap could do and multiply that by 1000 and you've got passions because passions was And so I'm looking at the Wikipedia here because the only thing I remember is the doll. Doll? Yeah. So here's okay. So it was an American television series, soap opera that originally aired on NBC from 07/05/1999 to 09/07/2007. And it was the apparently it was the last 1 from that network or something like that. Created by screenwriter James E. Riley and produced by NBC Studios, Passions follows the lives, loves, various romantic and paranormal adventures of the residents of Harmony, a small town in New England with many secrets. So the paranormal thing is this the 1st bit.

Eric:

So what I'm guessing this doll came to life and did stuff.

Sara:

Yes. Yes. Okay. So story lights center on the interactions among members of its multiracial core families. The the African American Russells, the white cranes, the Bennett's, and 0.5 Mexican, 0.5 Irish Lopez Fitzgeralds. The series also features supernatural elements, which focus mainly on the town witch, Tabitha Lennox, and her doll come to life, Timmy.

Eric:

Wish was in it. I wonder what kind of relationship they they had for her and her doll. Don't don't overinflate it. You know?

Sara:

And then, like and if it if it and and to I'm sorry to bring it back to the Buffy thing, but it it crossed over because they ended up referencing it on Buffy. A scene where 1 of the characters, a vampire, is tied up at Buffy's house, and he's being held there kind of as a captive. And he yells to spy to Giles. He says, come on. Passions is on. Timmy's down the bloody well, and if you make me miss it Giles kinda cuts him off. Like yeah. This show was bat crap crazy, and it was like, yeah. So anyway, I

Eric:

just And it was popular?

Sara:

It was ridiculously popular. Because like I said, had friends that watched this show. They were all like, they would talk about it. They would talk about all the characters. They would apparently, in the early days of the show, and I'm looking just this on Wikipedia here, Passion's heroine, Sheridan Crane, is identified as a close friend of Diana, Princess of Wales. Soon Sheridan recalls speaking to her on the phone immediately before the car accident. And then she has like a car accident herself and there's a boating accident, like amnesia and then warlocks and witches and going to hell. There's a door that leads to hell. Like, and then and then doll, like entertainment weekly labeled it as 1 of the 17 great soap opera super couples in 2008. And, yeah, like, they're oh, and there was also an orangutan named Bam Bam.

Eric:

So I I I

Sara:

So I'm guessing rage

Eric:

to that the the the people in charge of this probably should have been, drug screened because

Sara:

Yeah. Probably. All I'm saying is I'm guessing that rage to live probably isn't as crazy as this. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that was just my my little trip down the rabbit hole, but I just think it's quite funny because Steele has never heard of this particular soap opera. So Mildred explains that she plays Tiffany Ames, the wealthy socialite who despite all her money has a good heart, but is constantly being hounded by, and Steele interrupts her, reminding her that she was supposed to be checking on dangerous sales world whereabouts. And I love the fact that Mildred can simultaneously be a wrestling fan and a soap opera fan. I love that for her.

Eric:

Well, I I I guess you could say that there there are actually parallels between those 2 things. But

Sara:

There actually are. And this is why this is, actually, you you said it before I could, but this is what I've had friends compare it to that it's a quote soap opera for guys. Mhmm. And I don't know that that's necessarily true because there's lots of female fans as well. But the soap opera element is what brings people in. That scriptedness that there's always these storylines going on that are are not true at all, but they they hype up the the wrestling itself. They kind of add to that allure and that mystique and everything else. So, yeah, that that's why I think that a wrestler and a soap opera actress aren't a crazy couple at all because they are both technically doing kind of the same thing. It's just different audiences they're appealing to. So yeah.

Eric:

Now after Laura tells Mildred that, hey. You know, you're supposed to be checking up on dare dangerous dare Daryl's whereabouts, we have a missing scene again.

Sara:

Oh, okay.

Eric:

And Myers Todd. In in the script, it's it's well, it is Myerson. I I just have it wrong in my notes.

Sara:

Oh, Myerson. Sorry.

Eric:

Yeah. He he comes in and says, okay, Whitney. Everything is cool. Crunch is okay. Let's get back to the studio and finish taping. And Whitney says, well, thank you, Todd. My place is with Crunch right now. Tell them to shoot around me. I'll come I'll come in early tomorrow. And that that line is in the final script. Then he says, sweetie, may I talk to you alone a minute? As whatever you have to say, you can say it in front of Crunch. Okay. If that's the way you want it, I want it I want you back in the studio now. We have a career to think about, or at least we had 1 until you started mooning over old Crunchy here. Your image is slipping badly, baby. And from high class right into the dumper, I told you, Todd, I'm an actress, not an image. You're a name, a name, and a look, and that's all. And I gave you both of them. Or have you forgotten what your career was like before I entered the picture? So

Sara:

He really is a jackass.

Eric:

So, yeah, bits and pieces of that survived.

Sara:

Yeah. They did keep they get they kept some of it, obviously. I I kinda think they should have kept that last bit because it really just helps to drive the point home of what a creep he is.

Eric:

Oh, yeah.

Sara:

But yeah. But that's interesting. Mildred, before she runs off, says she loves happy endings. And Laura reminds her that Amanda's dead and the murder is on the loose, which isn't exactly a happy ending. Elgin nods and says, good point. Catch you later. She leaves to find Daryl. But and and then this is the part where you're Mhmm. Yeah. So a man walks through through the people taking pictures and tells Whitney that Crunch is okay. And as you said, they they need to get back to taping. She's visibly irritated. She tells him that her place is with Crunch and to shoot around her. She'll come in early tomorrow. Todd says that she's needed in the studio now and that she used to be big news until she started dating Crunchy here. And this is where, like, they kept that part where, you know, your career is slumping big time from high class right into the dumper. Yeah. Crunch tells Todd he heard her and that she will see him in the studio tomorrow. Todd looks at Crunch and tells him that when he heard he was dead, he didn't care. And he corrects himself and says he was glad he was finally out of his life for good before stalking off. I mean Not

Eric:

a nice guy.

Sara:

No. And also maybe something you don't want to admit in public with cameras and stuff.

Eric:

Yeah. Especially if the guy somebody's trying to kill the guy.

Sara:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, not just that. He's so worried about her image and whatnot. It's not gonna look good in the papers if it's suddenly a big news story that Whitney's manager hopes that her boyfriend would die.

Eric:

Well, that's I I maybe he just figures he can control that bit of it. Yeah.

Sara:

But yeah. So Laura and Steele, are watching the entire thing, comment on how it's getting interesting. Just as Laura says this, a man comes through the door to tell Crunch the retirement home just called and his father has collapsed. Now, here's my question. Dad obviously locked Shelby in there. Did he collapse because he had to rush back to the retirement home so as not to be found anywhere near the scene and that it just took a lot out of it him, or was it just a fluke?

Eric:

That's a good question. It could very well be that the exertion was just too much for him.

Sara:

Because, I mean, it wouldn't take much to lock him in the sauna. That would just be a, you know, whatever.

Eric:

But But the stress of doing that and then trying to get back and and away from the scene.

Sara:

Yeah. That's what I figured because it it it narratively, it's positioned here to kind of eliminate him as a suspect in our minds. Right. Which that's why it happens, but you you've gotta wonder, well, why did he collapse? Like, what happened?

Eric:

Well and then the the question is why why would he try and kill his son unless he actually knew that it wasn't his son?

Sara:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's revealed later. He knew it was Shelby. But yeah. So at the retirement home, they rush in and Crunch asks what happened. Al says he heard on the radio that he was dead, so he figured why live? But then he heard he was alive, so he decided to survive. Whitney says she can't tell him how relieved they both are. He thanks her. He looks down at his pills and says, oh, there's no water for my pills. Would you be a sweetheart and get me some? She clearly knows she's being dismissed. So she says, sure, dad, my pleasure, before walking away. I find it weird to call an in law mom or dad. Do you and she's not even married to Crunch, and she's calling him dad. But, like, I don't know. I I don't know if you that's how you refer to your in laws, but I definitely don't call my in laws mom or dad. Like, I

Eric:

There's a lot of ways that I refer to my in laws, but it's definitely not mom and dad.

Sara:

Okay. Fair.

Eric:

Actually, my mother in law's has passed now. But, no. I never never those were 2 terms I never used to refer to them as. Now my wife my wife did refer to my parents as mom and dad. I I I'm kind of under the impression that it's more common for women to do that than for the men. Why? I don't know. Yeah. I don't get it. There seems to be

Sara:

Ask your wife. Let me know.

Eric:

Consistency in in that that not all women do, but more women than men do that.

Sara:

Yeah. No. If I were to like, I don't typically have to call my in laws anything necessarily, but if I were to address them, it would be I just use their 1st names.

Eric:

Yeah. I think my daughter addresses her father-in-law by his 1st name. Yeah. So it's it's yeah. It's not because mister missus So where it's where it's, you know, passed down in the genes, it's hereditary or anything like that. It's

Sara:

just Yeah.

Eric:

Whatever.

Sara:

Because, like, mister or missus so and so, that sounds a little too formal.

Eric:

Mhmm.

Sara:

And I think mom and dad feels way too intimate. They're not your parents. They're they're your spouse's parents. So I yeah. I would just use a 1st name, but and what is even more interesting is they're not married. She's calling him dad, but they're not I don't know.

Eric:

Yeah. But the, apparently, the relationship is such that that she feels comfortable doing that. Yeah. She is trying to

Sara:

to She is trying to

Eric:

get on with him, but, yeah, he's not he's not willing.

Sara:

He's kind of a jerk, honestly. Like Mhmm. You know, whatever you might think of a soap opera actress, it's clear, like, it's clear throughout the episode that she genuinely cares about him. And and as a parent, you would think that that's all you'd want for your child. Mhmm. To have somebody that genuinely cares about them doesn't throw a steno machine at you and, you know, try to shoot you with a gun, like

Eric:

But, you know, you can kind of especially since we don't know when the relationship between those 2 started. But, I mean, you can see where if he's got this attitude about her and this, I'll say, fondness for Mary, his

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

Crunch's 1st ex wife, you can see where he he would he would look at Whitney and say, she's an actress. She's acting. This is not Yeah. Not genuine. This is not real. She there she's up to something. She wants his fame, prestige, money, whatever. You know? And arguably, he could be making more money than she is.

Sara:

I doubt it simply because unless he's in the WWF, which we can see he's not. Mhmm. It's a lower league. I if she's a soap opera practice, she's gonna be

Eric:

But even if it's not the case, he might imagine that it is. And he so he's seen all these things, not necessarily because they're actually there, but because that's what he perceives from her as the kind of person that she is. She's an actress. She's fake.

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

Everything about is fake. And then he's seen whatever facts in air quotes that he wants to see about her, that she's a gold digger, that she's, you know, all these other things. And he's just got it in his head, and he won't let it go.

Sara:

Yeah. To be fair, I mean, soap opera actors aren't necessarily a list celebrities either. But No. They do get paid very, very well for what it is they do.

Eric:

Well, that's like saying that somebody gets paid very, very well for picking up dog poop, but, you know, that doesn't this thing gonna make them rich.

Sara:

Well, I I'm assuming it I'm I'm assume and maybe I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that, soap opera actors are wealthy. I've seen, like, pictures of some of the homes and magazines and whatnot. They're like you know? But anyway.

Eric:

I would imagine they get a decent pay.

Sara:

Yeah. And then a lot of them do go on to enter into mainstream movies and television. Sara Michelle Gellar and some of the other there's a lot of actors and actresses that started out on soaps. Another 1 that I think think of is Shamar Moore, who ended up going on to do, like, some hospital drama, and he was on a bunch of other shows.

Eric:

He started He went from a hospital show to a hospital I don't

Sara:

know if it was General Hospital. I don't know what soap he started on, but he went on to some big time, like, Law and Order type shows. Stuff I don't watch, but arguably more visible than a soap opera because I know who he is. Whereas I couldn't tell you the name of anybody in the soap opera right now. If you asked me, if you put a gun in my head and said name an actor in a soap, I would be like, it was a nice life. Say goodbye to my family for me. So so Steele offers to go help her and Pop says he won't talk with that phony in there. Crunch pleads with him to stop, but Al continues saying that she's tinsel. He says he wouldn't give her 2¢. Crunch tells him to stop and Al says that he knows that Crunch thinks he's being a hard guy, but he and his mother had big plans for him as the 1st in the family to graduate college. He asks, but what have you done with it? Crunch tells him that wrestling is the hottest thing today, and Al says, what happens tomorrow when wrestling's not so hot? And here's the thing. My guess is what happens tomorrow when wrestling's not so hot is he has his degree to fall back on.

Eric:

Yeah. Depending on what his degree is in. Because

Sara:

He makes it sound like it's business because he talks about seeing him as, like, a CEO sort of thing. So

Eric:

Well, I I know some technical degrees. If you don't get into the industry right away, you wait 3, 4, 5 years, even a couple of years. You're far enough out of

Sara:

Oh, sure. Yeah.

Eric:

That you that you can't do it. Now for business, yeah, it's a little more applicable even a few years down the way, but there is that stigma of people that they get a degree, they don't go into whatever field it is for a few years because they're off doing wrestling or whatever.

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

And it's like, you know, people look at them and it's like, you know, you you haven't been in the business. So they presume that you either weren't serious, you weren't really all that that good at it, or that you just you aren't serious about it.

Sara:

Well, it's interesting that you say that, and this just makes me think of Ken you you probably won't know who this is because he was a a goaltender for the Montreal Canadiens, but Ken Dryden just passed away. I think it was yesterday that it was announced that he died. And he was a he he he only played 7 seasons for the Montreal Canadians. He was, I think, there from '71 to '79, but they won the Stanley Cup 6 times. He won the Vizina trophy as the goaltender on the team, allowing the fewest goals 5 times. The Kahnsmeis trophy along with the Caldin Memorial trophy as most valuable player in the playoffs rookie of the year. Like, he he his career in the 7 brief years that he played was insane. He was a really, really good goaltender. After he took a break between the 19 73 and 19 74 season to work for a Toronto law firm and to earn a degree from McGill University as a lawyer. And then, actually, he interned with apparently with Ralph Nader's public citizen organization. So there's that, Ralph Nader connection again. But like he then, after he retired, he went on to work as a lawyer for a number of years. And then he went into politics and he actually became a member of parliament for the Liberal Party for a good chunk of time as well. So, like, it it doesn't necessarily mean your your career's over if you've got something else you can do. Like, he was able to to be a lawyer and then later on a politician. So

Eric:

Yeah. Think there's a lot of factors that come into to play with it, though, because, like I said, even if you have a degree or education in a field that isn't as subject to change as some of, like, the technology fields are, I think there's still a public perception that if you got out of college and you didn't go right into the profession, you're a risk.

Sara:

Yeah. Fair enough.

Eric:

But yeah. I mean, people have people in sports have gotten and I use the word loosely in this application because Fair. We all know that wrestling isn't a sport. But people who've come out of sports, some of them have been successful in other fields. The 1 I'm most familiar with is a guy named Wayman Tisdale. He was a basketball star in the NBA. He played on the 1 of the US Olympic dream teams.

Sara:

Right.

Eric:

And when he when he retired from basketball, he went into jazz. So you can you can do other things and be successful at them. But on the other hand, there's a lot of people who leave sports and their life is a train wreck. And, unfortunately, it seems like there's more of them than there are the ones that make the successful transition. You know? And they they wind up fronting for, you know, late night TV pitchman who's who's turns out to be a scammer or whatever. You know? It just it doesn't always turn out well.

Sara:

Wrestling is kind of interesting, though, in that your public profile is just as important as the the wrestling itself. Mhmm. So a lot of wrestlers, if they don't end up addicted to substances, which to be fair is quite prevalent because a lot of them are taking painkillers to deal with all the injuries that they sustain.

Eric:

Plus probably a lot of steroids to build up.

Sara:

Yeah. Steroids and whatever else. They go into a lot of them go into acting and things like that. Right? Like, you've got The Rock. You've got John Cena. You've got, Dave Bautista. You've got Hulk Hogan who did a bunch of movies. Like, they they've or they'll go into, like what's his face? Wrote a book. I'm trying to remember his name now. My brain's it's not braining at the moment, but like there's a lot of other sort of high profile things that they end up doing because their name is so known that they make money that way. So, he could presumably stay in as a commentator or stay in as a manager or something like that. It wouldn't necessarily have to be. But either way, dad obviously has this very fixed ideas about what he wants his son to be doing. And Crunch reminds him that his manager is dead. Oh, sorry. Sorry. His dad reminds him that his manager is dead. Where are you without him? He tells him it's time to find a career and get some foundation. Then he says in another thing, do you think miss soap opera star is gonna give you a family? I don't know why she couldn't. I mean, actresses get pregnant all the time. They usually either

Eric:

It's him having this preconceived notion about who she is, what she is, what her motivations are, and her general attitude about things like family and and other things that he views as being Right. The important things in life. And she's, oh, no. I I want caviar with with little green flecks on it, and I want it on a blue plate that has little yellow dots around the outside. And if you don't bring it to me that way, I'm gonna send it back. You know?

Sara:

Yeah. I feel like oh, no. I feel bad for Whitney because she's obviously not that person, but that's what Al sees. Right?

Eric:

She's not but there's a tiny element of her that kinda comes across that way.

Sara:

I can see where it would where it would definitely where she could be perceived as that. Yeah. Like, the the singing. Oh, don't get me started on the singing. It's Yeah.

Eric:

I I mean, that's We're just gonna How many TV actors and actresses have tried to have singing careers and they just you know, they no.

Sara:

Unless they're coming out of the Disney Channel or Nickelodeon, it doesn't usually go very well. You're right. In which case, yeah, it's painful.

Eric:

The 1 that's that is most prominent in my mind is, Linda Carter. And quite honestly, I think the only reason her her, 1st album that she made during the or just maybe it was just after the Wonder Woman TV series was popular was because of the back cover.

Sara:

Yeah. Well, William Shatner also put out an album.

Eric:

Oh, he put out several. Leonard Nimoy put out several, and neither 1 of them are singers.

Sara:

No. They are not. Neither 1.

Eric:

And not even close.

Sara:

I mean It's painful. Yes. It's painful. Yeah. So outside, Whitney is talking to Steele. She says this has become a ritual. She comes to visit. He sends her for ice water so he can tell Crunch to drop her. Steele asked why and she tells him that he hates her. She says he thinks she's just some flighty actress who's using his son for cheap publicity. Steele pauses and stares at her sort of sizing her up. She notices and calls him on it. He stutters and says that he doesn't know what an and she says, oh, that you don't know what a nice girl like me is doing with a muscle bound cartoon like Crunch? Steele admits he wouldn't have put it quite like that. Well, I think he would though from what he said before. Mhmm.

Eric:

Okay. And now we have, some missing content here.

Sara:

Oh, okay. I wondered about that because the look he's giving her suggests that there's something else that either is said or done that I I

Eric:

She puts the ice in the glass, looks at Steele, and says, I love him, mister Steele. Remington holds her gaze, then breaks the moment by turning on the cold water. Whitney fills the pitcher. Whitney. Louise Schottsky. What's that? My real name. Louise Schottsky. You see Oh. Crunch and I are a lot closer under the skin than it might seem. He's hardly as dumb as the part he plays, and I, mister Steele, am hardly as smart. I don't know why I'm telling you this. Sometimes I even forget who I am. For some reason, I felt you'd understand. I think I do. Tell me, Whitney, when you and your manager arrived at the gym today, baboom.

Sara:

I wish they had kept that. I really, really wish they had kept that because it gives more context to her. Mhmm. It gives more context to Crunch, and it also gives more context to the look that he's giving her. Because in my notes, I had written after she makes a comment about what's nice girl like you doing with a muscle bound cartoon like Crunch, and Steele says he wouldn't put it quite like that. He's looking at her sort of in fascination. And in my notes I have, is he putting himself in Crunch's shoes? Like, is he trying to empathize? And that's what she says. I love him. And for some reason, I thought you'd understand. And it does seem like a moment passes between them, but you don't really it feels like there's not enough there to earn it aside from her just sort of heartfelt declaration. But I yeah. I really wish they had kept that. I like that. And

Eric:

because 1st of all, the the name Louise Schottsky, it's not the kind

Sara:

of Yeah. It's not

Eric:

an act it's not a pretentious name. And she's got pretentious name now, but Yeah. But, you know, she says Crunch isn't as dumb as he seems or as as dumb as he plays, which could also be kind of an indication that the persona he's given to Steele and Laura is still part of that persona that he's playing. It's gotten to be such a habit that he he plays that. And and she's hardly as smart as she comes off.

Sara:

Yeah. So K kayfabe is the is the word for that when wrestlers keep their persona outside the ring. And there's a whole it's kayfabe. And I'll I was gonna talk about it later when we get to Daryl because there's, like, rules surrounding it. They're not allowed to drop character, not supposed to drop character. They're supposed to continue to play character no matter what because anything that's going on, but, like, there that illusion has to be maintained. Right? So that could could fit into it. And I'll I'll go into more detail when we get to dangerous, Daryl, with that scene. Like yeah. And I I like that she she says he's not as dumb as he looks, I'm not as smart. Not that she needs to be a dumb blonde, but just that her admission that like, she's obviously probably portrayed in the in the tab tabloids as like a smart savvy actress who's making all these great business choices, hooking up with a, you know, a dumb athlete or what have you. And it's not really true for either of them.

Eric:

Well, also the character she plays is probably portrayed as being a smart

Sara:

Yes.

Eric:

You know, ambitious type female. And she is, I think, in this saying, look, I'm not like a lot of actors and actresses. I don't take the persona of my character and assume that that reflects me.

Sara:

You know?

Eric:

I I know who I am. I'm not that character, but unfortunately, that's how a lot of people see me and they assume that I see myself that way.

Sara:

Yeah. And I mean, that that's probably true for a good, like, I'm assuming most actors and actresses because how many actors have been hated, like, viscerally hated because they played a villain? Mhmm. Right? And I mean, this is like

Eric:

or a teenage kid who always saves the day.

Sara:

Yeah. Well, yeah. Because, like, Will Wheaton talks about how he got so much hate for playing Wesley Crusher. And Mhmm. The kid who plays I I don't know if you ever saw Game of Thrones, but there was a character named Joffrey who was a just the most vile, repugnant, evil little son of a, you know what, that ever walked the earth. And the kid that played him was young. He was like 13 or something like that. And this kid got hoards of hate mail just because his character was so awful. But I can't like, when I hear stuff like that, I'm just like, but that's, a, horrible because that's a kid, and b, they're acting. That's their job. Yeah. Like, that doesn't Yeah. Mean that they are that person. Means they're doing their job really well. Mhmm. You know, like, they're probably not a not not a bad person. Sometimes they are. Who knows? But, like, that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the character they're portraying on television.

Eric:

Yeah.

Sara:

Whether it's good or bad. So, Whitney looks at him and she says, like, she loves him for some reason she thought he would understand. He says nothing and then he asked her about when he and her manager arrived at the gym. She is quick to interrupt the question saying that Todd wasn't with her. She had her limo and she doesn't know where he came from. Steele points out he doesn't seem keen on her relationship either. She rolls her eyes and says the press has labeled their relationship beauty and the beast, and that he thinks it will ruin her acting and singing career. Yeah. That is harsh. Steele looks surprised. He says, you sing as well? She sings, but not well. That's what I would like to put in there. She sings, but not well. Because ouch. She tells him that soaps don't last forever. Since when? That's kind of the point. Well Literally, they

Eric:

last forever. Her standpoint, her career on soaps don't last forever.

Sara:

Fair enough. Although there are some I was gonna say some of those actors and actresses from, like, Days of Our Lives and All My Children have been there for literal decades.

Eric:

Yeah. I I was gonna say because this you know, people in the industry are always complaining, well, there's no roles for aging actors and actresses. And it's like, I think you could probably get something on a soap.

Sara:

Absolutely. Yeah. It's it's funny how, like and some of those actors that are that have been on that show for 10 years or longer, they just that's they're happy there. They get their money. They have their you know?

Eric:

They get their their they meet their union minimum to keep their Yep. Pretty much it. Their retirement funds. You know? So

Sara:

Yeah. So, yeah, she you sing as well, and she says that her 1st musical special shoots the next night. She adds that with Todd, it all comes down to money. She says he's so concerned that Crunch is getting more mileage out of the relationship than she is that he accused his manager of arranging the whole thing. And again, this is something that that has happened in Hollywood Mhmm. Where people will pretend to be a couple because it gets the publicity and it gets that, you know, whatever project they're promoting gets more

Eric:

I'm I'm wondering how much of that has actually happened in the last 50 or 70 years as compared to, you know, the sixties, fifties, forties, thirties, You know, that sort of know, where where the word integrity was was considered a a curse word in Hollywood. You know?

Sara:

Well, sometimes it was even to cover up the fact that the actors were gay and didn't want that known. Like, Rock Hudson, Cary Grant, both were

Eric:

Although Cary Grant is that has been disputed

Sara:

Yeah. Well, I mean

Eric:

among others, his his 1 of his wives, Diane Cannon.

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

So and in fact, he's got a daughter, a biological daughter. You know?

Sara:

He could have been bi. But either way, like, it's it's 1 of those things that often happened, like you said, further back just because it would have been career suicide for them to come out, so they would have a a wife or a husband or whatever it is to cover up that fact.

Eric:

But also during that period of time, the media hype machine was more organized and True. Concentrated in in Hollywood than it is now.

Sara:

Yeah. Now it's a wild west.

Eric:

Yeah. And even 50 years ago when Remington Steele was was on, it was still more of a wild west. It was kind of in between. You you had still had some powerful media people, but it had large I think largely been diluted Yeah. Compared to what it had been in the past. And, you know, those people, it was all about, as you said, promoting this movie or this thing, this event. And so, yeah, they would put on all these elaborate shows because it's marketing. It's not real. It's marketing. It's all part of the act.

Sara:

It's all part of the machine. So yeah. And I obviously, Steele is surprised that Todd accused Shelby. Whitney asks, can you believe it? And Steele says, the more he thinks about it, the more sense it seems to make. So we switch over. We're in the rabbit. Laura asks if Steele really thinks that Meyerson might have been gunning for Shelby all along. And Steele says, well, it's Hollywood. Anything's possible. They pull into the parking garage, and he tells her she needs a token. And she lights up, and she says, you don't realize how brilliant a deduction that is, mister Steele. So she pulls out the token.

Eric:

Done it again. Have

Sara:

I? Yeah. Right? And Steele reads b b p on it. And Laura points to the sign that says Blueberry Productions. Steele realizes that that's Todd Meyerson's management company. She points out it might not have been a case of mistaken identity after all. So driving driving up and over the curb and around the entry gate, That's that's a, some creative driving, as Laura is is is known for. And b, I have to wonder how many other people have done that simply because you can.

Eric:

Well yeah. But, I mean, I I can't imagine most people would do it. But, yeah, so I'm sure somebody has. Although, you know, some of these places, they've got alternative security measures to prevent that from happening. You know, the the thing is, if you watch that scene, it's always bugged me because as she goes around the gate, she drives past the sign, which is facing the direction that she came in

Sara:

from. Yes. Noticed that.

Eric:

That says stop wrong way, severe tire damage. So I'm thinking what you know, I I I know that there are places where they will put down those spikes that that drop down as you drive over them. But if you back up over them, it will puncture your tires. But usually it's going to indicate that you can't back up that way or you can't enter that way from but it's from the other side because that's the direction where this sign makes no sense to me. I'm I'm wondering

Sara:

if I noticed that too.

Eric:

If they shot this at some location that had this out and they just didn't bother to Maybe. Yeah. Redress it.

Sara:

You got Steele saying, that's it, Laura. Hold on to the evidence at all costs, which I find funny. So inside, BBB, Todd Meyerson is in his office. He's looking at promotional posters of Whitney Chambers. He rejects the 1st 2. And Steele and Laura kind of come in, and they walk as they walk in, he doesn't even look over at them. He's he just like, would you buy this? And he's he does so absentmindedly, not even realizing who they are or why they're there. Finally, he gets the 3rd poster. He likes that. He claims this is what we're selling, class. He turns and he's surprised to see From

Eric:

what I can see of those 1st 2 posters.

Sara:

They looked fine to me.

Eric:

Yeah.

Sara:

Yeah. They looked like your typical promo shots that you would see of any actor or actress in a show. Like, I didn't see a difference between the 3rd 1 and the 1st 2. But Well, other than the dress. Yeah. Yeah. It was a bit different, but it was fine. It looked fine. Like, I

Eric:

don't know.

Sara:

I guess I'm not in the business. I don't know. But he turns, and he's surprised to see that Laura and Steele are there. He asked if they were at the gym. Steele introduces himself and Laura as his associate. She tells him that they are private investigators. Todd says, so. And Steele tells him they'd like to have a little chat. Laura specifies she wants to talk about his relationship with Arthur Shelby. Todd immediately tells him to get out. Laura asks what he was doing at the gym when Shelby was killed, and he angrily says that he was with Whitney. Steele points out that she disagrees, and Todd yells for them to get out again or he will call the police. And I like this. Steele is fine with that. He please do. And Todd, having his bluff called, obviously doesn't want the police there. So defensively, he says, so I was at the gym. Big deal. Laura inquires about the cut on his knuckle and Todd lies, saying he ran into some coral scuba diving. What? I'm so like, okay. As I said before, I hurt myself yesterday on the trying to get on to the daughter and I she we were at the fair. She took off running down to get to a specific horse, and I was trying to catch up with her, I didn't see where the metal step was. And I tripped and I fell and I smashed my leg, and it's like baseball sized swelling bruise. It's awful. I could think of a better story. Yeah. Right? Like, I I I could make it sound cool.

Eric:

I was working on a a car. You know? I my hand slipped, and I hit hit the

Sara:

I was attacked by a rogue Canada goose. Even that sounds better than than I hit my knuckle cut my knuckle scuba diving. I ran into some coral. Okay. Sure, dude. Way to go. That's no. Still says judging by the bruise, that judging by the bruises on Shelby's face, it looks more like his cheek connected with his fist. Todd admits he hit him, adding he had it coming, the slime ball. Todd asked them if they know how often a Whitney Chambers comes along. When they don't answer, he says, once in a manager's life. And now Shelby and that Freako Crunch are destroying everything he's worked for. He claims he created a Cartier necklace, but they're turning her into rhinestones.

Eric:

You know, it it seems to me that he's kind of admitting that he's not really good at his job. No. Because, you know, this would be the kind of thing that if you were good at your job, you'd turn it into an asset.

Sara:

You'd milk it. You'd milk it for what Yes. It was Yeah. Exactly. You'd you'd milk it because here you have 2 very unlikely people who have somehow found love together, and you'd use that Mhmm. Instead of trying to especially because soap operas draw in 1 type of audience, wrestling draws in another. Theoretically, you want a larger audience. Your audience. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. You would try to exploit that rather than shut it down, but you're right. He's he's terrible at his job. So he yeah. And it still realizes he had it in for crunch too. Todd admits he did. Laura asks if he sent anonymous death threats and Todd says, whatever it took to get him to and Shelby to back off. Steele says, even murder? And Todd says, yes.

Eric:

I mean, no.

Sara:

No. I mean, no. No. I didn't kill him. Like, what a dummy. Laura, however, has taken this as a confession and says that we think we can call the police now. They turn to leave just as the phone rings. Todd picks it up and reluctantly hands it to Steele saying it's for you. He answers it and it's Mildred. He listens for a moment. And again, I have to compliment them on how realistic their phone conversations often seem because he waits quite a bit for Mhmm. Mildred to presumably tell him on the other end what it is she's called to tell him. It's not just, hey. Yeah. Okay. Bye.

Eric:

Yeah. That's 1 of the things I dislike about so many actors on shows that are doing a phone call conversation.

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

Yeah. It's just yeah. The the timing just doesn't work.

Sara:

No. And some of the ones that are done well, they'll actually have somebody call them and just read the lines Mhmm. Just to give that idea of how much time it would take. Mhmm. And they obviously keep that part out of it if you're not supposed to hear the other conversation. But, yeah, the ones that are just like, yeah, okay, thanks. Bye. Then they relay this long conversation that they just had. It's like, no.

Eric:

It's not how it works. It's like somebody is is speaking a foreign language and they go, you know, for for 40 seconds and and somebody asked what what did he say? Said, yeah.

Sara:

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. He looks at Todd 1 more time before telling Laura they won't take up any more of this gentleman's time. Laura is incredulous. She says, this gentleman murdered Arthur Shelby and tried to kill Crunch. Steele says negative and tells her while they were here, someone else made an attempt on Crunch's life. He says good day and they leave. So we have Todd exonerated for the moment and then we see them at the at the TV studio. Steele tells Laura that they produced 2 excellent suspects and provided them both with airtight alibis.

Eric:

To go. Way to do your job, Right?

Sara:

I just I it makes me think of that line and you've narrowed down this case to include everyone in that 2nd base deal. Yeah. Yeah. They find Crunch and Whitney standing next to the set with a large moon. Laura asks what happened, and Whitney tells them that they were rehearsing. It's only paper moon with crunch on the moon when it came crashing down. He admits that he fell 30 feet, was only saved by what looks like a blip shaped beanbag chair. I'm not quite sure what that is supposed to be, but

Eric:

don't know.

Sara:

Yeah. Either way, it apparently broke his fall. So, Laura asks him what he was doing on the moon, and Crunch admits they were planning on making a surprise appearance. Whitney adds that she thought the audience would love it. Laura is surprised the chain just snapped as a man walks in. He introduces himself as Jake Riley, her stage manager. Riley tells them it wasn't an accident. He checked the chain an hour ago and it was fine. He hands it to them and still can see it's been filed apart. Whitney tells Crunch now that he's in good hands, she has to get back to the soap opera taping her Todd will kill her. She winces immediately regretting her words as she leaves. Crunch tells them

Eric:

he Choice of words.

Sara:

Yeah. It wasn't a great choice of words. Crunch tells him that he has to go meet Daryl, and Steele is intrigued by the elusive velvet vandal. Laura says, if he doesn't mind, they would like to tag along, and Crunch agrees. So in the ring, we see Crunch and Daniel sparring. Crunch is practicing for the crowd as Daryl grabs him and throws him over his hip. Crunch is hurt asking what that was. And Daryl tells him it was a hip toss, adding he thought it would look good. And this is where I had my original notes saying that this is not how you prepare. This is not how they would be preparing. As I said before, they've sort of portrayed this as if they've got an airtight choreographed routine that crunch is asking Daryl to stick to and Daryl is deviating from, but that's not how it works. They practice by practicing different moves and they may have a general idea, like I said, of what moves you're going to do at what point. But for the most part, when they get in the ring, it's spontaneous and they talk to each other. So I found an article that I thought was interesting that kind of like talks about this, but it says like you've probably heard of professional wrestling, but do you know what it really is? It's not just people belting each other over the head with folding chairs. There are compelling storylines, heroic acts of daring do, blood curdling extreme moments and enough cultural complexities to make, I can't read that name. Grab his nose. It's a looks like a Swedish name anyway. As a professional restaurant journalist, let me take you through a few frequently asked questions that make me wonder what the hell they're teaching in school these days. So the 1st question so wrestling, you mean the Olympic stuff? No, not the Greco Roman wrestling you might've seen at the Olympics, the other kind of wrestling. The UFC, I'm getting closer, but no, the UFC or Ultimate Fighting Championship is mixed martial arts. So you're saying that pro wrestling is fake? No, I'm saying it's scripted. Wrestlers did spend 100 years pouring energy into extending the illusion of legitimate competition beyond the 4th wall to the point that rivals were forbidden from traveling together between shows. This made it super awkward when mortal enemies Hacksaw Jim Dugan and Iron Sheik were arrested while traveling in the same car in 1987. They were arresting arrested for drug possession, not for breaking kayfabe, which is that word I talked about a 2nd ago. Kayfabe refers to the web of illusion that disguises the contrived elements of wrestling. Giving away results, public appearing out of character, or writing articles like this spoils the illusion and reveals the inner workings of wrestling wrestlers to outsiders or breaking kayfabe. So the original idea was that punters would be more inclined to buy tickets and emotionally invest in the wrestlers if they thought the competition was real. Rigging the matches and constructing storylines raises the stakes, but the more you mess with the legitimacy of the competition, the harder it becomes to maintain the illusion of it. Turns out it's a slippery slope from 2 wrestlers grappling in a believably competitive way until 1 deliberately takes a dive to 2 wrestlers fighting over a magical funeral urn where 1 wrestler burying the other alive in a giant pile of dirt and that dirt being struck by lightning to bring the wrestler back to life. This actually happened. So, right? Like, they just get it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Right? But then he says, unlike stunt performers, wrestlers perform these stage contests in 1 take before a live audience, the ultimate theater in 1 in the round. Giant wrestling or great wrestling is part of a complex choreography and part improvisation with wrestlers feeding off each other and the crowd to create a unique work of art. And then the question here, so still, you know how to fall, it doesn't hurt. It hurts. It all hurts. Everything we do is designed to minimize damage, but it's inevitable. A dentist knows how to drill, but that doesn't mean drilling is not both painful and risky. Likewise, we know how to hit each other and crash to the mat as safely as possible, but things can still go wrong. So this practice

Eric:

session exception to the word art. But

Sara:

I mean, that's fair. But, like, this practice session is a bit kind of odd because it makes it look like there's a specific routine that is exact and like you have to do this move and this move and this move, and that's really not what it would look like in the ring. So yeah. But yeah. I just thought that was kind of an interesting thing because I guess it's meant to just show how Daryl is trying to enhance his profile by bringing more theatricality to it and crunch is trying to just stick to the script per se. But because we see Crunch practicing for the crowd. Daryl grabs them, like I said, the hip toss. He says it's a hip toss and Crunch asked him to stick to the routine and they go back to practicing. Eventually, Daryl bites his hand leading Crunch to jump back saying, what the hell was that? And Daryl tells him it's a grudge match and that he should be pulling out all the stops. So the crowd really hates him. Crunch isn't interested. He tells him just stick to the routine. As they continue, Mildred comes in and approaches Steele and Laura who have been watching the practice. Steele asks what the word is on Daryl. Mildred says not much. She tells him his real name is Daryl Simmons, former professional bodyguard, had his own floral shop for a while, unmarried, and lives alone. Well, some of the stuff we learn about Daryl later. Steele is a bit surprised by the floral shop, and Mildred watching the practice can see Crunch going into 1 of his finishing moves. She counts it off as Crunch pulls off the move. He jumps up and says, that's more like it to Daryl. He tells him he'll see him tomorrow night. Laura says that it's not safe for Crunch to be home alone, so she suggests dropping him off at his father's. Steele agrees and they says they need to get the story on dangerous Daryl. So even this alone, the fact that Crunch is allowing them to see inside the ring would be breaking that illusion, that kayfabe. Yeah. Because you're supposed to keep that persona at all times. It's like the 1st rule of Fight Club. You don't talk about Fight Club. You don't let anybody inside. You don't let them know that it's all an illusion. So that in and of itself is breaking the rules big time. We see Laura in the next scene bring Crunch into the room where Al is happy to see him telling him it'll be just like old times. Crunch tells her he's gonna go get his bags leaving Laura with Al. Al asked her if they're taking good care of Crunch. She says yes on a professional level, but on a personal level only he can help. Al is curious and asks how. Laura tells him by coming to the match tomorrow night. Al refuses saying that when he starts wrestling in a CEO chair. This is why I got the impression it was a business degree, but who knows?

Eric:

And he'll Also, his dad is of an older generation, and it could be that in his experience, if you have a college degree, you become an executive in a company.

Sara:

True. True.

Eric:

And he just doesn't understand that college degrees may have changed from what he's been used to and that you can get college degrees and all kinds of things that don't make you an executive because, you know, he he comments about getting into the executive chair. There are a lot of degrees that don't put you in that position. So

Sara:

True. It just we don't know what the degree is. So

Eric:

that Right. But, again, it it could just very well be that Al is reading things into a situation that aren't there.

Sara:

Yeah. He does very much seem stuck in his preconceived ideas of of what each of them are and what they are supposed to

Eric:

be.

Sara:

For sure. Laura protests saying that he wants him there. Al doesn't agree. He says he wants Whitney there so she can take over his entire life. Laura asks, aren't you being a bit harsh? She says that Whitney is a talent, talented actor. Well, I'm hoping she's more talented as an actress than she is as a singer. I'm just gonna put that out there. She's a talented actress who is very much in love with his son. Al isn't buying it. He says actors, he can have actors. She's nothing but a gold digger. He adds that she should have, heard her and Shelby talking. She'd blush. Laura is interested at the mention of Shelby's name. She prods and Al tells her that she hated Shelby or he hated she had she hated Shelby? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. She hated Shelby. She wanted Crunch to appear on her soap. And when Shelby refused to change Crunch's schedule, she went nuts. Okay. Here's the thing that possibly happened. It's not that easy to change a wrestling match though. Like, you've got promotion and you've got a date and you've got the venue and all that other stuff. So, that's I mean, maybe they're like, obviously, they they had an argument. Doesn't really make her a gold digger, though. So

Eric:

Yeah. Again, he he has this preconceived notion of what she is, what she's about, what her interests and motivations are. And even if the argument was not a huge issue like he portrays it, that's how he's going to portray it.

Sara:

That's how

Eric:

he's going to interpret it.

Sara:

It does work because Laura is now a bit more suspicious of Whitney, admitting that having crunch on rage to live would boost the ratings and wonders out loud how much that's worth. So it does kind of meet its intended target. Steele me okay. This is probably 1 of my favorite scenes in the whole episode. Where did he I I just want no. I gotta know. Where did he get the costume?

Eric:

Costume. They're in Los Angeles. I mean, costume houses

Sara:

Alright. Fair enough.

Eric:

Rent costumes all all the time. I I imagine, you know, given the apparent level of prestige that the agency has, they have contacts in the entertainment industry. They have contacts in all kinds of places, and and he would probably had no trouble getting a costume from a rental house.

Sara:

What kills me is the fact that he thought he even needed it because he he basically just admits he used that as an excuse and goes right into the fawning fan routine, and that's enough to work on Daryl. Right? So he probably could have just gone up dressed as that sort of dorky persona that he puts on and just, oh my gosh. It's really you.

Eric:

Well, I mean, if you're gonna if you're gonna go with a character, you know, and you're gonna

Sara:

play a role,

Eric:

you might as well go all the way.

Sara:

Yeah. Exactly. So, yeah, this is really funny. He's got this water delivery outfit. He's carrying a huge bottle of water on his shoulder. He rings the doorbell. Daryl answers, and Steele introduces himself as filter pure man. And he's like, all breathless. And like, Daryl says, there must be a mistake. And you can see there there's a clear difference between Daryl at home and Daryl in the ring. He's got very sort of expensive, understated clothing on. He's drinking a glass of wine. His house inside is not like it's not super flashy, but he's clearly got some money. Mhmm. So, yeah, he's and Steele, pretending to be overwhelmed says, oh, wow. It's really you. He introduces himself as Harley Ferguson, president of the Velvet Vandal fan club, Receipt a Chapter. Oh, and then, okay, he apologizes for the disguise and adds that he just wanted to tell him how much he and the 42 members appreciate him. And it's so sad. I feel so bad for Daryl that it takes 42 fans to get him to be like, oh, come on in. Well

Eric:

but that's just the Rosita chapter.

Sara:

Yeah. Oh, buddy. Buddy. Daryl is so flattered by 42 fans that he invites him to come in. Still still in character says, oh, wow. Again, before entering inside the apartment, like I said, tastefully decorated. Daryl is surprised that he has a fan club, and Steele says, you've never seen us in the stands in our velvet sweaters?

Eric:

I just I don't know.

Sara:

Sorry. Go ahead.

Eric:

It's obvious how he's playing it up to Daryl because he's got this idea that has been already kinda put out there that Daryl is homosexual. Yeah. Yeah. Was gonna say flower shop.

Sara:

There's there's a gay vibe here 1000%. It's

Eric:

and Steele is just playing it. Oh, wow. It really is you.

Sara:

It really just it's it's hilarious without being in my opinion. Okay? It is hilarious without being offensive. It could have easily come across as, like, icky, but it just it it's cute. It's really cute. It's like and

Eric:

the guy playing Daryl, in this scene in particular, plays it very well because

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

He has just that edge to him of being the masculine, you know, guy that that is is he's he's still homosexual, but he's he's the masculine version as opposed to the Remington Steele version, which is

Sara:

very effeminate. Yeah. He's got a very camp sort of effeminate era aura to him that's just it's funny. It's you've never seen us in our velvet sweaters? Daryl says, no. He pours him a glass of wine, Steele fumbles with the water before taking it, proposes a toast. He says, to the velvet vandal, may he tear that bum crunch Kramer's guts out tomorrow night and turn him into sausage. Oh, Daryl says it's a beautiful sentiment. Steele then adds that, well, it's probably not the case outside the ring. You're probably good friends. Again, Daryl, Cathaybe, totally breaks character here and says, no. That crunch is the bane of his existence. I mean, that part isn't character. Sure. But then he goes on to explain, like

Eric:

Some Brie?

Sara:

Yeah. Some Brie. Yeah. He's just very, very civilized. He offers him some Brie and Steele ass if it's all real. Daryl says that he's snarling on the outside, but dying on the inside. So, technically, like I said, a good wrestler would say this anyway to preserve that character. But, obviously, Daryl is more like, he's just kind of spilling his guts here. He laments that Crunch is the good guy. He's got all the accolades. He's just and he's just the big bruising bad guy adding that he sang in the church choir for 15 times. Yeah. He's gay. Like, he's he's he's he owns a floral shop. He sang in the church choir. He calls himself the velvet vandal. Okay? Yeah. They sit down, and he adds that he's never even had a parking ticket. He laments about all the impressionable kids out there. Oh, I get the kick out of that because they they want a bad guy. Like, that's the whole point. Right? Like, you can't have a good guy without a bad guy. It's

Eric:

That that's the entire basis for all the superhero comics and movies Right? Ever since the beginning of the the

Sara:

Yeah. Format. In some cases, the bad guys become more popular because of the yeah. So he laments about

Eric:

all the best toys.

Sara:

The the best toy and there's there's they don't have to play by the same rules. Right? The good guys have certain rules that they have to abide by. The bad guys don't. So Steele commiserates. Major bummer. He asked if he has any idea what it's like to

Eric:

be pissed when everyone goes. Line. Yeah. Major bummer. I

Sara:

know. It's just so pervy. He's so good at this. And then he continues saying, or have some loud mouth bitty jab your derriere with a hat pin wherever you go. Mildred has made a name for herself. Oh, yeah. Good going, Mildred. Then he offers Steele some rumbles. Steele protests that but you're a star. You're on magazines. Your velvet bow tie and briefs are a fashion craze. With who?

Eric:

Well, apparently, with Steels receded chapter. Chapter. Yeah.

Sara:

Daryl says, if you only knew adding that it was all crunches idea. He tells Steele that he owns his contract. Steele is surprised by this. Daryl begins telling Steele the story. He says 2 years ago in Sausalito, an expiring wrestler named Daryl Simmons saw his flower shop going under. He needed cash fast, and Crunch Kramer had him by the bicep. He asks, what could I do? And explains that he signed his future away to him. He then says he wishes he was dead before he smashes his glass his wine glass into the fireplace. Steele is caught up in the moment, throws us as well. And then Daryl turns at him, what are you doing? That's water for crystal. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it was a ritual. It

Eric:

was the same set of glasses that Daryl just threw in the fireplace.

Sara:

I know.

Eric:

I mean, if you you're gonna throw 1 into the fireplace and destroy it, you might as well do them all because you've just broken up the set.

Sara:

Absolutely. Yeah. There's no point in keeping them anyway. So

Eric:

That's right.

Sara:

So, yeah, that's that's my 1 of my favorite scenes in this episode. It's quite funny. So then we go to the set of Rage to Live. And I, again, love that name for a Yeah. Soap. Whitney is filming a scene. Her costar also smashes a glass into the fireplace saying, yes. I had an affair, but Julian is not my child. And she responds in character, I hate it when you lie, Richard, almost as much as I'm learning to hate you. Another character approaches Whitney from behind and says, he's telling the truth because Julian is my son. Director yells, cut. And we can see Laura watching from a distance in disguise with very large glasses. That seems to be her MO when she goes into these sorts of disguises. I think she looks quite good in them personally. But, yeah, so she approaches the director and introduces herself as AFI intern in television directing. She tells him she's been observing for 2 weeks and she loves his work. The director is flattered saying he didn't know they put interns on soaps. She tells him, we don't refer to them as soaps, but as continuing dramas, an important part of our native culture.

Eric:

Yeah. And and, yes, you're right. The classes are

Sara:

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, she's not wrong in a sense, like we said before, they started out as radio dramas and they did Mhmm. Kind of like, move move sort of, forms. And they've they've lasted this long. So there's obviously some appeal to the people that watch them, just not me. Yeah. He thanks her and and she tells him that she has a question. Sufficiently buttered up, he says, ask my child. Laura mentions Whitney walking off the set the previous day and asks how a director would handle that sort of things. He things. Sorry. He laughs ruefully and says, actors, you should lock them up at night and truck them to the set in the morning. You'll learn. I gotta wonder how much it like, because they've obviously done multiple episodes now where they focused on, say, commercials or TV acting or whatever, and they were always making these comments about actors and whatnot. How much of that is the writers going, oh god. This is irritating. Well,

Eric:

I yeah. Obviously, we don't know how much of that happened on this show, but, you know, you do hear stories about, we'll say, difficult actors.

Sara:

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Eric:

And how the producers and the writers and everybody basically hates them. But Yeah. You know, it's 1 of those, we can't do anything about it overtly, but we can write things Yeah. That express our feelings toward this little slime ball, this bum, this, you know, 2 bit worthless nothing that's you know?

Sara:

I mean, sometimes it's legitimate, and sometimes it's it's the actors being painted a certain way by controlling producers and directors. Right? Like, it's really hard to tell sometimes, but, like, you get somebody like Jean Claude Van Damme, who by all accounts is a complete diva, and nobody likes working with him. Mhmm. But he brings in money. So, you know, they they they sort of, deal with that.

Eric:

The the I guess the way you kinda get a feel for it is if 1 producer or 1 director says something about an actor, but nobody else does, you know, you take it with a grain of salt. But if they all say the same thing or or they don't wanna talk about it, Yeah. Yeah.

Sara:

It's Yeah. I mean, those sorts of rumors were were spread about Sara Michelle Gellar on the set of Buffy, but then we learned that Joss Whedon isn't controlling a hole. So, I mean and no no other cases has that been said about her on any other projects. So

Eric:

it's 1 of

Sara:

those things

Eric:

where And other actors from other shows of his

Sara:

Yeah. Have all said the same thing. So it's like, oh, where there's smoke, there's fire usually. But in this case, we don't know. Like, Laura persists, and she asked what happened. The director says that Whitney told him her character would never do what was in the script, but there wasn't time to make a change. So she promptly walked off and locked herself in her dressing room. Laura asks him where when she went in. He says around 11, didn't come out till 2. Laura asked him what he did, and he tells her the only thing he could do caved and rewrote the scene. Actually even run it to her 3 times through the door, but she didn't answer.

Eric:

You know, It's hard to know which which side to take on this because

Sara:

It really is. It really Actors.

Eric:

Yeah. You know, it's on some level, you've gotta respect an actor who just says, I'm the actor. I'm not the writer. I read the words. That's what I get paid to do, so I'm just gonna read what you know, what's there, unless it is just totally egregious in some way. But on the other hand, you also gotta admire actors who say, look. You know, I know you write the words, but I I live this character.

Sara:

Yeah. Exactly.

Eric:

I I I put the the flesh on the bones that you provide me in the script. And I've worked on this entire series from the beginning, or I've worked on this character from the beginning, the introduction of that character. You've worked on 5 scripts out of, you know, 50 scripts that this I character's appeared know this character better than you do, And my character wouldn't do that. Say, I mean, you you gotta have admiration for both sides of that approach. But yeah.

Sara:

And you can see, like, even with we've heard about Stephanie having taken issue in season 2 with how Laura's competency was reduced somewhat. Mhmm. And her, like, saying, like, Laura is smarter than this. She's this is not what I signed on for. And Nana Visitor, who we talked about in the last episode, also talked about how passionate she was about her character on Star Trek and how she would often fight the producers when they were trying to take her character in a direction that she didn't feel that character would go in. And you it's like you said, it's a hard it's a hard line to walk because the writers and the showrunners have an idea of what they want these characters to do. But also they sometimes have them do things that service the plot as opposed to making sense for the character. Whereas the actors, if they have a certain process, they embody that character. They think about a backstory. They think about all their motivations. They think about their reasons for doing this and they get so into it and involved in it that if they're being asked to do something that totally goes against what their character is or in their mind that they just can't bring themselves to to do it. So yeah.

Eric:

Yeah. Well and then also, you know, a lot of times and and this applies for other things, not just as in acting, but just in other jobs. When somebody is saying, no. No. No. This is wrong. They get labeled as a troublemaker.

Sara:

Yes. And in some cases women. Yeah.

Eric:

In some some cases, it's true. I I don't know. I'm I'm not a woman. Get labeled as like just get labeled as troublemaker a lot.

Sara:

A lot of female actresses get labeled as troublemakers if they speak up about not wanting to say do a nude scene or do this or do that more so maybe than a male actor who says, I'm not gonna do this, and I'm Jean Claude Van Damme, and I can do what I like. Yeah. But So

Eric:

Oh, there are times when the person is just creating tension for the sake of creating tension because that's their personality. But what so many people, bosses, directors, producers miss is that there are those people out there who take exception to this decision, this policy, this action, whatever, because guess what? They care about the company. They care about the TV production. They care about the movie. And what they what they see is this is a bad choice for this company. This is a bad choice for this series. It's a bad choice for this movie and, you know, maybe the future sequels.

Sara:

Franchise. Yes.

Eric:

Thank you. Yeah. So, I mean There's 1 other fine line.

Sara:

There's 1 other example that I can think of, and it's Russell Crowe, who is notoriously an egotistical jerkwad. And I don't know if you've seen the movie Gladiator, but his big famous speech in that film. Right? Initially, he outright refused to say it. And it it was it I it's 1 of the most iconic parts of the movie now where he says my he faces off with Commodus, he says, my name is Maximus Decimus Moridius, commander to the armies of the North, general of the Felix legions, loyal servant to the true emperor Marcus Aurelius, father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife, and I will have my vengeance in this life for the Like, I can remember that because it's great. And he was like, no, this is terrible. This is trash. I'm not saying this. And he absolutely refused. And eventually the director, I believe it was Ridley Scott that directed that. Like, you're telling Ridley Scott, he doesn't know what he's doing. Right? And finally, he relented, and he said, fine. You're writing this trash, but I'm such a good actor. I can make it work. And it won 1000000000 Oscars. So, I mean, he obviously is a good actor, but he's also a creep. Like, it just yeah. Sometimes it you're right. There's a

Eric:

Stepping back a bit on our comments about Laura's glasses.

Sara:

Oh, okay. We

Eric:

had a a listener comment saying that, yes, she likes them too. She looks great in them, and she's wondering or yeah. This person is wondering if they are the same glasses from etched in Steele.

Sara:

They certainly look the same.

Eric:

They they do, but I I don't have those 2 things up in front of me to do a comparison. That's

Sara:

They certainly do look the same. Like, they're big. Like, they're and I assume that she wears them to sort of hide her facial features because she's got her hair out here too in a way that she doesn't come in

Eric:

there. Wears them because she looks hot in them.

Sara:

Well, she doesn't want it in them. She admits that she wore them at at and when she was in university to

Eric:

to get

Sara:

with her professor. So, like, they obviously do their job. And she in this case, she's buttering up the director. So she's, you know, using that whole sex appeal thing. It's working. I'm not saying it's not, but, like, yeah, it also kinda hides her a little bit because Whitney has seen her. Right? So if Whitney notices her, hopefully that she's I guess Laura's probably hoping that Whitney won't see her as anything but an intern on randomly on the set. Right? Yeah. So you gotta wonder what she was doing in there for those 2 hours because

Eric:

And that's that was Laura's question. Yeah. What was she doing in her dressing room for the entire 3 hours? You're a real nut for detail, aren't you?

Sara:

Yeah. You're really technical about this. And she gives a flirty laugh and says it's the academic in her, and he says it's charming and to keep it. And then he thinks about it and says, well, he couldn't vouch that she was in there for the entire 3 hours, but where else would she have gone? And Laura shakes her head and says, 1 can only guess. And I guess this is the red herring to make us suspect Whitney. Mhmm. But we later realized that it wasn't Whitney. So you do have to wonder what was she doing? Did she take a nap? Is that why she didn't respond when he read the scene to her through the door?

Eric:

Could've been.

Sara:

Again, we need a fan fiction. We need an explanation. So we get a scene change. Steele is in his office on the phone. He seems pretty pleased with himself. Calls a restaurant, makes a reservation for 2. Dude, you need to stop doing this. It never works. He claims it's somewhat of a celebration. He hangs up and Laura comes in. Excited, he tells her he has the killer dead to rights. Laura asks who, and he says, dangerous, Daryl. She posits her own theory that the killer is not a him, but a her, Whitney Chambers. He tells her, Laura, don't do this. My stomach is preparing for antipesto.

Eric:

You know, that's my wife does that to me sometimes, a variation of that. You know, she'll say, well, but how does this sound for dinner tonight? Oh yeah. You know? And you get your taste buds all prepared for it. And I get home and then she says, oh, I changed my mind or I didn't have this. So I went I just it's like, you can't do this.

Sara:

That's what I was hoping for. But in this case, it's his own fault.

Eric:

He Well, that's true.

Sara:

Hyped himself up before he, you know, he, I can solve the case. Now we're going to dinner. You're not going to dinner, Steele. I'm sorry, but you're not. She ignores him, adding that Shelby was the intended victim all along.

Eric:

Linguine and clam sauce.

Sara:

It's always food. Poor guy. It's always food. Laura continues to talk and Steele rattles off the like he said, the food items he's thinking of. She tells him that Whitney was supposedly in her dressing room until 2. 0, shall we? Killed at 1. She tells Steele to think about it, saying that Whitney wanted Crunch to appear on her show, but Shelby wouldn't agree to it. She tells him she wouldn't she would have been carrying the same parking token found near Shelby's body. Steele argues, it can't be Whitney because she loves him too much to jeopardize his career. Oh, I love this for him. I love that he's a sucker for a love story and that he just kind of has bought into the, oh, no, they love each other too much. They couldn't have possibly It that's sweet. That's really sweet. Because then Laura, she's the 1 that skeptically says that, is this the same man who refused the case because it was pure hype? He tries to backtrack. Pipe on the professional level, not on the personal. Laura's not buying it. He says, just like you and me, because he pulls her close. She asks how, and he says, oh, a little bit of hype on the professional level. Laura says, personal level? And then he cuts her off by kissing her, which, of course, means that Mildred walks in.

Eric:

Yeah. Yeah. The the next bit, Mildred walks in and catches Steele and Laura kissing. And she says, I knew I should have buzzed our tickets for tonight's championship match holding them up. Yep. Steele. Mildred, your timing remains as it's always been. Lousy. Terrible.

Sara:

Oh, that's a shame. That was that's cute. I would have liked to have seen that there. For the next scene, I'm not American, but on on your behalf, I'm so sorry. I gotta say that there is a big difference in how the national anthems are portrayed in sports, in Canada versus in The US. And it seems that in The US, they go out of their way to find somebody who just takes the Star Spangled Banner and turns it into something that's

Eric:

like The Star The Star Mangled Banner.

Sara:

Yeah. Whereas with with Canadian sports, it's often like they'll get a school choir to do it, or they'll get, like, somebody who you know what I mean? Like, it's

Eric:

My notes my notes kind of kind of address that. Okay. I'll just read my notes. Exactly. I'll admit that the star spangled banner isn't going to make anyone's top 100 songs list, but I hate it when people who disrespect it by mangling it and try and turn it into a pop tune. No national anthem of any country deserves such disrespect. I would even be offended if someone did that to the Canadian national anthem. Ouch. Babely frag, isn't it? No. It's worse. It's worse. She is she isn't even a very good singer. No.

Sara:

She's really not. And that actually

Eric:

I just had to join that maple leaf rag.

Sara:

Well, I I I wanted to kind of, like, talk about that for a little 2nd because a lot of people don't know this, but our national anthem

Eric:

Oh, Canada.

Sara:

Has only officially been our national anthem since, I think, the eighties, 1984 or something like that.

Eric:

Oh, really?

Sara:

That was when we started singing it in schools. It's been around longer than that. It was, originally written in French, commissioned by the lieutenant governor of Quebec, in 1880 for Jean Baptiste Day ceremonies. And it had like a bazillion verses. Like, it's no. I'm serious. Like, the initial

Eric:

will now take 45 minutes to sing the Canadian national The

Sara:

19 o 8 version, which is not a translation of the French lyrics, gained more popularity, but the the original lyrics have been like, and the lyrics for the English version of the song have actually been revised 3 times. Well, the French lyrics remain unaltered. So I find it kind of funny whenever I hear, and this is like a little pet peeve because the lyrics were changed somewhat recently. I think in 2018, they were revised again. And people got all up in arms about it. I want the original lyrics, but they don't realize that the lyrics they've been singing their entire life were also not the original lyrics. So, the original lyrics in English, when when you, true patriot love in thou dost us command were the original lyrics. Kinda hard to say. They were changed around World War 1 to pay homage to the men that were going off to war. So they were changed to true patriot love in all thy sons command to sort of like give that reference. And then they were changed again in 2018 to sort of reflect back to the original lyrics. So now the lyrics are true patriot love in all of us command, which is better than thou dost us command because it's just easier to say. But then you get people, oh, those are I want the original lyrics. You mean the ones from 1914, the ones from 1998? Like, what are we talking here? Right? So, so, yeah, there's just a little bit of history there. And like I said, the French version has, let's see. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Like, there's like a gazillion verses. We don't sing them all. So it's like

Eric:

Somebody was an overachiever.

Sara:

Yeah. So like I said, it eventually did get chosen as our official anthem that we sing in schools. But up until that point, the anthem that you would sing before sporting events or or in schools was God Save the Queen because we were a British colony. And, like, that's what my mom would sing when she was in school. She would sing God Save the Queen.

Eric:

I just as the case may be.

Sara:

Or the king is, it would be now. So, yeah, that was just a little sidebar into historical. But, yeah, this is just painful. We see her singing, The Star Spangled Banner badly. She has and in my notes, I've got she's turned it into a bizarre pop rendition. Steele tells Laura he knows he's a newcomer to their country, but he thought the national anthem was the Star Spangled Banner. Laura tells him it is the Star Spangled Banner, spangled by a star. The

Eric:

Star Spangled Banner.

Sara:

That's a great, like, reverse of of Yeah.

Eric:

The word. I don't know.

Sara:

I love that. And I also think it's interesting that Steele makes that comment because when when Scott 1st came to Canada and this is 1 of the 1 of the ways that Canada and The US are semi similar in terms of culture. I think you guys have maybe more flags outside front lawns and things like that. But we took a walk from the house I was living in at the time into this little beach town that was close by. It was about a kilometer and 0.5 to do the walk. And as we're walking, we're passing all these houses, and some of them had Canadian flags out in front of their house. And he was like, You guys really like your flags. Like, this is weird. To see To him, it was just weird to see flags. To him, it's still weird to see people standing up for the national anthem at sports events, and he finds it very bizarre that we stand up for it in school because they don't do any of that in Britain. Well You know, like

Eric:

I said in my notes, it's just I think The US is probably 1 of the very few countries where people don't see a problem with and I'll use the word, disrespecting the traditional national anthem in the way that that we have so many people that do it. You'd never I'm I'm I'm risking getting called out by somebody on this, but you I don't think you would ever find anybody in any other country, Canada, Britain, any you know, Australia, New Zealand, any South American country, any Asian country, any other European country, you know, 1 of the Russian countries. You would never find anybody singing their national anthem in any way but a respectful way in the traditional way that it was sung because that's supposed to represent the solidity, the solemnity, and the the respect that people have for their country. They can disagree with the government. You know? Sure.

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

Everybody everybody disagrees with the government at some point. But there's a difference between, you know, disagreeing and disrespecting. And to to it's just it's Well, fun. I mean I mean, in any other country, if somebody did that, most of the people would be offended.

Sara:

Funnily enough.

Eric:

But here in The US, it's not.

Sara:

It's not even so much that she's because because what you're talking about is, like, doing it as a protest or whatnot. It's not even that she's trying to protest her

Eric:

or Yeah.

Sara:

She's not

Eric:

trying to be disrespectful. She just is by nature.

Sara:

Yeah. She, like, a lot of pop performers, and I think maybe that's the problem is that, like, in Canada, like I said, we often hire, like, school choirs to sing the national anthem at the game or or whatever. Somebody who's maybe not as high profile, but has like a profile within the community. And so they're just gonna sing the song as it's written. But if you hire Mariah Carey to do your national anthem, she's gonna do the Mariah Carey national anthem, and it's gonna be more about her as a star than it necessarily is about like, the song itself.

Eric:

So Bingo. Bingo. There you go. It's more about me than than the song. It's more about me than what the song represents. It's more about me than our national pride.

Sara:

It's about me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Look at her outfit in the it was the dress she's wearing. I Like

Eric:

I think the only color she left out was blue.

Sara:

Yeah. Yeah. So Mildred shushes them, and she finishes her, for want of a better word, song. She goes into the the corner as the announcer takes the stage. He introduces dangerous Daryl. The boos already begin, including Mildred who's booing loudly, yelling, sit down, you bum. He gets into the ring. He tries to play to the crowd. He notices Steele, and he grins and says, hi, guy. Laura, who looks surprised, he cringes, and he says, in the line of duty, Laura. Yes. That's that's cute. The announcer then announces Crunch Kramer. The cheers start as Crunch makes his way into the ring. He kisses Whitney. Laura points out, oh, look. His dad made it after all. We see on the other side of the ring, his ex wife or mother more like is booing Crunch loudly, still comments that missus Walensky made bail. And also, would like to say, well, while we're on the subject of outfits, those tidy whities that Crunch is wearing make me deeply uncomfortable. They are none of my business. Like, usually, wrestlers wear if they're wearing, like, the little kind of bikini type bottom, they're made out of a fabric that kind of, like, just smooths it over so they look like a candle. Okay? There's nothing there Mhmm. That you can but you can see the outline of it. Okay? You can see it in the underwear, and I'm just like, I can't I feel like I'm doing something wrong by looking at it. It's just You'll never thank you. No. Thank

Eric:

you. Superhero costumes have that problem.

Sara:

Yeah. I

Eric:

I remember seeing something by comments or something written by Bert Ward, who played Robin in the '66 Batman, commenting about how how the costumes created problems for

Sara:

think so. Yeah. Especially when Catwoman walks in the scene, you know, then you gotta basically make sure the camera's on you from the waist up.

Eric:

Or Batgirl.

Sara:

Yeah. True. But yeah. So I'm just like, ah, that's that's that outfit is not on my business.

Eric:

It's too much information.

Sara:

It's too much. I don't need to know what Crunch is packing under them briefs. I don't need it. So the match begins and they start wrestling. Crunch manages to throw dangerous Daryl and turns to the audience doing his thing like crunch, crunch, hyping them up. Daryl advances from behind. He gets crunch in the back. They begin trading moves. The crowd's going crazy. They're loving it. Daryl throws crunch. His dad looks concerned. So there's actually a moment where Al Molinsky looks a little worried for his son. Maybe he's sort of realizing that what crunch is doing, may be silly, may be, you know, whatever it is, but it's not harmless. Like, he's he's actually there's real there's there may not be real sport involved, but there's real skill, I guess. You could put it that way. Right? Well, his ex looks thrilled. Yeah. She's oh, that's funny. She he gets crunched into a headlock, knocks him backwards into the ropes where he begins hitting him over and over again. He grabs him, gets the upper hand once more, throwing him to the floor, and the 2 are back to trading blows. Crunch eventually recovers and kicks Darryl while he's down. He uses the time to play to the audience once more before going into his signature finishing moves where he kind of like runs and like uses the ropes to launch himself. And he does it like 4 times before he finally like slams into him. But in this case, the crowd is counting him down. 1, 2, 3. And he doesn't make it because the rope snaps and he goes flying into the crowd. Everyone is shocked. Daryl though realizes this is his chance, and he tells the ref to start the count as he has 20 seconds to get back in. Now, again, if this were really professional wrestling, he would get fired for this because there was a script. There was a script. He was not supposed to win this match.

Eric:

Well, but if he was not responsible for the circumstances and Crunch is knocked out, they have to in order to maintain the fiction.

Sara:

Well, he's not he's not knocked out. He's he's on the ground, but he's conscious. So if if Daryl is like, if this were really happening, Daryl would have to jump down and try to

Eric:

I think he was knocked out. That's that's what it looked like to me.

Sara:

Pretty sure. But either

Eric:

way Because he's he's he's laying there on the ground. He's not moving and still runs up and starts patting his face. I I think he's out. I I think I think Daryl yeah. And and the and the umpire or referee or whatever it is.

Sara:

Yeah.

Eric:

They have no choice. In order to maintain the fiction, they have to declare him the winner.

Sara:

Well, likely, they could also just call the match and then have it like, this would even get more publicity. Right? Because the grudge match was interrupted. We gotta do it again.

Eric:

Well

Sara:

I don't know if Daryl

Eric:

was supposed If if Daryl won and then Crunch had a really big grudge match to get his title back because True. He he would've been robbed. You know? He he would've won except that those ropes broke, and somebody knew that. Somebody did this. Daryl, I think you did it. I think you were behind it. No crunch. You're you're just a wussy. You know? You know? It would have been that could have been a big big promotion there too. So, anyway

Sara:

It could yeah. It really depends on on how the upper ups see it. They may Yeah. Right? Like, if they were either way

Eric:

In the moment, the ref would have probably I would have think I would think would would call Darrell the winner. And then afterwards, the officials could say, no. No. There was there was the ring was tampered with. It wasn't a a legitimate win. And then, yeah, then they can have both ways. Yeah.

Sara:

True. Still gets down to try to revive Crunch as Whitney comes over and throws herself on him. Like And come on.

Eric:

Do you notice Let's do it. Still's hand goes.

Sara:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that. Ouch. Mean, it's just

Eric:

right there. I I I suppose, you know, that's what it's for.

Sara:

Yeah. The referee gets to 10. Daryl declares himself the new world champion, telling the ref to wave his arms. So, yeah, there's a a bit of an upset here. After the match, Steele shows the ropes to Laura, telling her that they have been cut through with a sharp instrument. She says, dangerous, Daryl? He nods. Inside Daryl's dressing room, Steele and Laura enter and congratulate the champion. Daryl tells Harley, sorry, no autographs. The press is waiting. Laura asks if they're eager to hear how he cut the ropes. He looks surprised and Steele shows him the PI license telling him who he is. He seems so disappointed. He's so sad.

Eric:

Like He thought he he thought he had a shot at a date.

Sara:

He thought he well and or just fans. Like, I feel kinda bad for him that he

Eric:

Well, that too. Yeah.

Sara:

You know, like, he's and I thought you were a fan. Laura points out that it was a neat trick, winning the championship despite following the script to perfection. Daryl, not liking the implication, tells her to get out of his way. Steele asks Daryl where he was 2 days ago when Shelby was murdered. Instead of answering, he yells, out of my way, and throws Laura against the lockers before running out. When Steele and Laura have recovered, they chase him into the arena. Laura calls out to Mildred, calling her hat pin Millie, and she shoves her hat pin into his butt.

Eric:

I mean, that would stop me.

Sara:

Yeah. I think it would stop most people. They catch up. And then Laura, okay, she hits him over the head with a hammer.

Eric:

Well, not really over the head.

Sara:

Okay. Well, she does that thing where she really hits him on the back, but for purposes of the script, it's theoretically supposed to be on the head and he's knocked out, but like a hammer?

Eric:

Yeah. That would do some serious damage. I mean, I've seen statistics that indicate regardless of how you you feel about guns, handguns, rifles, that sort of thing. I've seen statistics that that show that more people are murdered with hammers than are murdered with guns Interesting. In The US. Now there's ways of manipulating those numbers, of course. Know? People committed suicide. You add that to gun violence and and other things. But yeah. Hammers, regardless of where you feel on that, hitting somebody over the head with a hammer

Sara:

It's gonna

Eric:

That's not a good idea.

Sara:

No. It's a bad idea.

Eric:

Probably gonna wind up in jail.

Sara:

Yeah. And Steele comments on her championship belt. We switched scenes. Inside Steele's apartment, we see candles are on the table. So I guess they didn't go out to dinner, but he probably cooked or something because music is playing. They're dancing in the living room. He comments on it being a nice day's work with Daryl behind bars for the mistaken identity murder of Arthur Shelby. Laura adds that she's sure Daryl's alibi won't hold up. Steele then says now onto more urgent matters and kisses her. I gotta say that braid, I love the braid. She should wear she should wear her hair in a braid more often. It's really nice. It looks good.

Eric:

I I I have that in my notes that I don't know what it's called. Is that is that called a French braid? I don't I don't know.

Sara:

I think that's just a regular braid.

Eric:

I I I I because the French

Sara:

braid's a bit more intricate.

Eric:

But I I love that. My wife used to use her hair wear her hair like that, but she stopped because it was giving her headaches. But I miss that so much because it just looks it's so yeah. It looks so good. I'll just leave it at that.

Sara:

It's cute. It's cute, but it there's also, like, a like, an underlying, like, sexy element to it. I personally don't know how to braid my own hair. I wonder how people do it. I can braid my daughter's hair. I do it all the time, but I don't know how you braid your own hair and I never learned. So, don't know how to do it. But she looks really good in that ribbon. I don't know. Maybe it's the ribbon too that it just adds something to it. It looks really nice. So yeah, they're dancing, they're kissing. Eventually he pulls away and he says, I think you just answered my question. Really sure what he means by this unless there's something else missing from the script?

Eric:

No. Not that I saw.

Sara:

Oh, sorry. He says, my bad. I I skipped a bit. She asks if he is pleased, and he says, case closed, you and my arms, what more could I ask for? That's it. They kiss a bit more. He pulls away and says, I think you just answered my question. Yeah. Sorry.

Eric:

What more could I ask for? Yeah. That.

Sara:

Yeah. I I missed that bit when I was reading through my notes. That makes more sense. He goes to kiss her again when, of course, the doorbell buzzes. But this time, it's Laura who says not to answer it. Interesting. He reluctantly pulls away and opens the door to find Mildred who tells him that his phone is out of order. He tells her he is for a reason. Mildred tells him to turn on the TV hoping for a recap on the late show. Laura says a recap of what? Adding, couldn't she tell him this on company time? Mildred goes into the living room saying she was so consumed with the crunch Kramer case that she forgot to eat. She grabs a breadstick. Steele is asks, consumed by what? And she says that you nailed the wrong guy for murder. Steele is surprised. And Mildred says that when she left the arena, something didn't sit right. So she went home and did what they did.

Eric:

I doubt that very much, Mildred.

Sara:

Yeah. And this is this is more evidence for, like, the the the the the theory that they've all already crossed that line, and we just haven't seen it on screen. This kind of adds to that pile of evidence because, I mean, they haven't really done much aside from having dinner and dancing and kissing a bit. But I guess you could make that work either way because, yeah, he doubts Mildred went home and did that with someone else, but it could be something else too. Who knows? But, yeah, I doubt that very much, Mildred. And I love the fact that she's bulldozed her way in here, and she has like, she's grabbed the breadstick. She's eating the breadstick and clearly does not notice any of the other, like, stuff around her that tells her this was a date that she's just destroyed. You know, the candlelight, the the music, the no. She just she's

Eric:

She's a woman on a mission.

Sara:

Yep. She says she paced going over every detail. She says they eliminated Crunch's ex wife because she was with them when Crunch was murdered or sorry, when Shelby was murdered and so was Whitney's manager when someone tried to turn out Crunch's lights at Whitney's rehearsal. But where was dangerous Daryl? She says then it hit her. Daryl too has an airtight alibi. Laura looks miserable. She says, he does. Mildred says, there it was on the TV. I caught the last bit of Whitney's special, right after the match. They showed her coming right down on the big moon, then it hit me. And still, he mutters not hard enough as far as I'm concerned. Oh, and I like how they're both at this point disappointed to have Mildred, essentially

Eric:

Mhmm. Interrupt.

Sara:

You know what blocking their date here. Mildred continues undeterred saying she called the soundstage and they confirmed that the moon is part of Whitney's routine. When crunch came down on it, it was simply a gag. Laura is starting to catch on. She says, which means and Mildred finishes that the killer assumed Whitney would be on it. Laura finishes that it means that Whitney was the intended victim, which leaves dangerous sterile without a motive. Mildred is pretty proud of herself and Steele sarcastically says that she made a perfect evening disappear like that.

Eric:

Well, you left out the 1st part of that where she said, oh, absolutely magic, Mildred. You made a perfect day. You can disappear.

Sara:

But unfortunately, he's the you know, he's he's also convinced by it because he grabs a pillow and he starts pacing. Right? And Laura goes through the list of suspects they had eliminated, telling Steele to stop pacing. And he points out it worked for Mildred. Laura asks who would have it in for both Whitney and Shelby. They all think for a moment that the light bulb comes on and Laura says, of course. In the limo, Laura is trying to phone someone. She says it's busy and stealer just sort of keep trying. Next, we see Whitney on the phone to Crunch telling him she loves him and she'll see him in a little bit. She hangs up and she goes to get her coat when the phone rings again. She picks it up and it's Laura. She tells her to listen very carefully and then tells her to lock her door. Whitney is surprised. She asks why, and Laura tells her they think the man who killed Shelby is going to come after her. She asks asks who that is, and Laura says Al Molinsky, Crunch's father. Whitney is surprised by this, but Laura tells her they'll explain everything when they get there and stay put until they do. Whitney tells them tells him that she will and she hangs up. She goes to lock the door, but before she can, Al comes inside. She's visibly nervous saying, it's so nice to see him. He says, likewise, I'm sure. She tells him that she was about to go see Crunch and if he goes to get the car, they can go together. He says he already got it. So she says terrific. And asks if he can help her with her coat. She leans towards

Eric:

Can I can I

Sara:

Yeah? Go ahead.

Eric:

Jump in here real quick. Yep. I neglected to mention a scene earlier where Laura's wearing a sweater. Here, Whitney's wearing a sweater.

Sara:

Yeah. I was gonna

Eric:

that's my sweater. Heaven.

Sara:

Eric has his sweater porn for the episode. So yeah. It is a nice sweater. It for Whitney, it looks good on her. It kinda works for her persona Mhmm. For sure. Even when she's attempting or he's trying to murder her. She shoves out of the way running into the darkened studio. He chases her behind a giant pink rocking horse. I gotta wonder where the hell these props are from. Like, there's some weird, weird crap in here. Okay? Well,

Eric:

she's doing a a 1 hour TV special. And, I mean, I'm sure you remember some of them where where these personalities that you know, they're a famous actress on something or whatever. They get their own TV special, and it's full of stupid skits and all this. You know? And so I I can imagine it was all part of 1 of the skits for her her special.

Sara:

It's there's some weird stuff in here.

Eric:

There's some weird stuff

Sara:

in here. She tells him, like, so she's hiding behind the giant rocking horse. She tells him they're gonna know it's him, but he doesn't think so, pointing out that they see him as a feeble old man who can't even stay awake from Merv Griffin and her, a young bimbo, alone there after midnight. She pushes the horse at him and tries to run. Meanwhile, the limo is still on its way. They pull up to the studio as Laura and Steele get out, we see Whitney trying desperately to get away. She pleads with Al not to hurt her for crunch's sake. He grabs her from behind and she screams. Laura and Steele get to the sound and light controls. Laura sees them and Steele, come on, dude. This happened before. Okay? You remember that, the the springtime for or no. Sorry. The the the 1 with the damn it. The breathalyzer. Mhmm. He put her in control in in control of the controls and it she nearly killed off like this is not a good idea. You know? Or when he's on the like, when he's getting knocked into the big breathalyzer, the sign thing, like, it yeah. You really shouldn't be putting Laura in control on this. Because it just never goes well. So yeah. She he tells her to hit the lights. She tries, but instead loud music. What is this? What do you know what that song is? Because I know it, but I don't know it.

Eric:

Stars and Stripes Forever, I think.

Sara:

Oh, is it? Okay. Yeah. I just know I've heard Yeah. I've heard it before. I just don't know, like

Eric:

Yeah. I think it started stripes forever.

Sara:

Okay. So Steele makes his way to the studio and 2 giant hanging props nearly falling. Said, why the hell is there a giant clown?

Eric:

Again, it's a prop for 1 of the skits in her her special.

Sara:

That is that is a horror movie. That is not I

Eric:

I know. Clowns are they're they're they're not funny. Oh, no. It's it's not funny to

Sara:

to have a clown.

Eric:

Reminds me of an episode of bones where where I can't think of the character's name now. Anyway, he's got this thing about clowns, and he sees a a clown on a a clown head on top of a, like, an ice cream truck, and he turns and shoots.

Sara:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that was that was that was Booth.

Eric:

Booth. Yes. Thank you.

Sara:

It was Booth that shot the clown.

Eric:

Yes. It's like

Sara:

the thing. Then he then he goes to go to therapy with, what's his face? Yeah. Shot a clown. Yeah. I remember that. That was hilarious. Laura accidentally turns the spotlight on him, and he yells to light the stage. She presses another button and a chandelier crashes down behind him as fireworks start going off. This doesn't seem safe. No. The

Eric:

fireworks But you know, they do stuff like that on TV shows.

Sara:

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Just not maybe not all at once. I'm saying, I think that's where it's. Yeah. The fireworks spell out her name and Steele stares horrified until he sees that below her name, Al Molinsky is strangling Whitney. He rushes to help and pulls him off while Laura checks on Whitney with the music still blaring. So, yeah, that's that's that's there. Laura enters Steele's office with Al Molinsky's psychiatric evaluation. She comments that it may never go to trial and emphasizes that emphasizes that the poor guy was so afraid that he might lose his son to show business. Now, I am no expert on US law, but in Canada, in order to prove insanity, there has to be more than just, like, he was temporarily enraged. Like, there has to be a diagnosis of, like, schizophrenia or something that is long term.

Eric:

Yeah. Okay. So hire an expert to give you the diagnosis you want.

Sara:

I mean, sure. But

Eric:

I mean, come on.

Sara:

I don't know.

Eric:

For for for enough money, you can buy anybody's expert opinion.

Sara:

I I just think that, like, Al Molinsky seemed pretty sane.

Eric:

Yeah. But, you know, between sleazy lawyers and sleazy professional experts, you you can I mean, you can create enough of a case that, you know, you just create a reasonable doubt in the mind of a jury?

Sara:

Fair enough.

Eric:

I I'm not gonna say that I I think it should fly. I I I don't think yeah. I don't think I don't think it would work on me, but probably it wouldn't work on a lot of other people.

Sara:

Well, even even if it did work, he's not gonna be just let go. If if they did prove that he was insane, he'd be put in in an institution as opposed to jail. And I don't really see how that's better, frankly.

Eric:

Well, and that's the argument is that, well, you're still incarcerated, but it depends on how they, I guess, how they sentence it because in 1 scenario, you could be in in an institution, and then in 5 years, you're cured and you're let go. But if they tie the treatment in with the sentence, then you go into treatment for 5 years. After 5 years, you're cured, and then you go to jail depending on how they argue the insanity plea, depending on how the judge or the yeah. I guess it would be the judge. Yeah. Yeah. Imposed a sentence. So, I mean, it's it's a it's a gamble that is not without its downsides, but it's probably 1 of those gambles where if I lose my bet, I haven't lost anything. But if I win my bet, then I potentially can get get out within so many years and and not be stuck in jail for the rest of my life.

Sara:

Yeah. We did have a case here in Canada, actually, a number of years ago, long time ago now, but, a guy decapitated someone on a bus, like literally cut her head off and was found to be schizophrenic. And so he was sentenced like, pleaded insanity and he was schizophrenic. He went and gone off his meds and was hearing things and whatnot, but now he's out because he spent 10 years or something like that in the institution, and then they declared that he was on his meds again, and he was functional to be released into society. So now he is apparently out there somewhere. Yeah.

Eric:

There's, you know, another possible interpretation to this line, though, could be that he's he's got a physical illness, and he you know, his health is such that he may not survive

Sara:

Well, she says it's his trial. She says it's a psychiatric evaluation, though.

Eric:

Yeah. But the the 2 things I don't think are necessarily unrelated. I mean, people can have mental conditions that are either created as a result of health issues or aggravated by them. So

Sara:

True. True. Either way, she says to him, Whitney symbolized the entire industry. Steele adds that he thought Shelby was the key to Crunch's success and that by killing Shelby, Crunch's career would collapse. And again, just to go back to the fashion here, Laura looks incredible in that blouse. It's really nice on her. It's flattering.

Eric:

Oh, and on on the fashion note, we have a

Sara:

Oh, okay.

Eric:

A note from a listener watching the live recording here. It says slow response because I had to pull up the video to make sure, but definitely would be considered a French braid.

Sara:

Oh, okay. Yeah.

Eric:

Says that we we have a command here. We have a royal command issued to us. After we finish season 5, we need Remington Steele style podcast.

Sara:

That would be something. Eric's sweater report and

Eric:

How many,

Sara:

like, thumbs up it gets? I don't know. Like, I give this 5 cashmere sweaters. So Yeah. Oh, that would be great. I'm in. Laura snaps her fingers and says she just thought of this old movie, which I don't think there's been a movie reference at all yet.

Eric:

So No. There hasn't been.

Sara:

This was their, I guess, attempt to shoehorn 1 in in the last 2nd. Still looks happy. Like, almost, like, looks proud, like a proud parent. You know, what old movie? And she fumbles for the title, a pillow. Whatchamacallit with who's it? And what's his name? Yes. So so so So specific. Yeah. She's trying. She's trying. And he realizes that she's talking about a bill of divorcement with John Barrymore and Katherine Katherine Hepburn. He tells her not bad for a beginner. And she lays down on his desk. This is very kind of like provocative. Right? The way she lays down on this desk and sort of looks him in the eye Mhmm. And says, I'm learning, mister Steele. And then he's close her close saying, so you are miss Holt before kissing her, and that's where it freezes.

Eric:

So Mhmm.

Sara:

Got a very cute little episode with a really nice, like, a plot and a, you know, a nice little b plot. Like, I like this episode. Think it's a lot of fun. So yeah. Any other thoughts on this 1?

Eric:

No. Yeah. It's a fun episode. It it's probably not gonna be in my top 5.

Sara:

Which we are definitely doing. Yeah.

Eric:

But, yeah, I mean, it's it's a good episode. It's it's not an outstanding episode. And, yeah, the whole I I don't know. Anytime I see a show and they do something like this where they're they're delving into the world of wrestling or or something along those same lines where it's it's it's focusing on something that is just so obviously corny and ridiculous and and yeah. It just I'm not not a big fan of those types of episodes just because of the subject matter

Sara:

that they're I I don't know. I kind of enjoy it personally, but that's I mean, I get it. Well Makes sense.

Eric:

You used to be a wrestling fan, so there you go.

Sara:

Well, I mean, not just wrestling, but any anytime they're kind of, like, entering into this obscure world of this particular thing or that particular thing, I always get a kick out of it because it's they they obviously take it to the extreme. Right? So I I think that's the part I enjoy more than anything else. But either way

Eric:

Sweaters galore. It's a comment from a from a viewer. Sweaters galore. Yes. Yes. Yes. So Anyway On

Sara:

on the website, www.steelwatching.com, we've got show notes, links to Amazon US, Amazon Canada, maybe some sweater sites. Who knows? That's much for Eric. But also like, links to the merch site or ways to support us if people wanna buy us a coffee or, you know, not literally, but figuratively support us at 1 time or become a supporter. There's that. There's also other social media resources and links such as?

Eric:

Well, you can follow the podcast if you're not already or or if you know somebody who wants to follow it, but doesn't know about it yet. There's links to the official Steele watching Facebook page, Twitter page, Instagram page, and, of course, the link to the ever popular Steele watchers fan group.

Sara:

Yep. Where we have fun and talk about things like sweaters, sweaters, all the sweaters. Sweaters. The next episode is is 1 of my personal favorites, and it's going to be forged Steele. So I'm looking forward to that.

Eric:

Should be interesting. Yeah. Alright. I don't have anything else.

Sara:

Nope. That's all folks. We'll see you later.

Eric:

Alright. Bye bye, everybody. Well, I'm not gonna say anything. It's it's all up to you. I refuse. I refuse to participate in this fiasco, this farce, this joke of an episode.

Sara:

He's cute when he doesn't have a choice. Steele watchers, the moment you have been waiting for.

Eric:

No. You haven't. You know what? You haven't been.

Sara:

They have been. You haven't been, but they have been. Our top 5 Remington Steele episodes of all time because lord knows we're not doing a top 5 season 5 episode. That that just wouldn't work. So It just well,

Eric:

I mean, you could make it work, but it wouldn't work well.

Sara:

No. It would not work well. So for the entire series, send us your top fives. Doesn't matter the season. Even if it's season 5, we might question your sanity, but, hey, we give you. Send them to us around the beginning of October ish. That's kinda what we're shooting for in terms of when we record this, and we are recording this. Sorry, Eric. It's happening. And, hey, maybe even like your

Eric:

favorite the head with a hammer.

Sara:

Add in your favorite season as well, just in general. Tell us what your favorite season was and why, and we will have some fun with that. Eric will get drunk, and, you know, we will round off the entire the entire series in in a fun way. So

Eric:

In my defense, when we did the season 4 top 5, I was on pain medication, so that might have affected my ability to speak.

Sara:

Sure. Sure. A likely story. It was. Anyway, set us your top

Eric:

5. Which further enhanced my inability to speak?

Sara:

Send them to the email. The Eric, would you like to tell them what the email is?

Eric:

Steelwatching@yahoo.com. And make some comments. If you just wanna send your list, that's fine. But if you wanna give us reasons why you chose these, both the episode and your top season, please do so. We will Yeah. We will read as much of it as we can. We I think it's proven that we don't Yeah. We Although, I I have to admit, I I missed a a fan mail because it was buried the notice for it was buried in my junk mail for Steele watching. And, you know, we get all these emails. You wouldn't believe some of the emails we get. But yes, send it in to Steele watching and label it top 5 of all time or something like that so we we we can spot it. So there you go. You.

Sara:

We're looking forward to it. Kicking and screaming.