Ti Kosmos podcast
Ti Kosmos podcast
How the war in Ukraine has changed the European security landscape?
The war in Ukraine has radically changed the European security landscape. European and Euro-Atlantic institutions face unprecedented challenges as a conflict by conventional and hybrid means is being waged in the heart of the European continent with no end in sight.
The implications of the war for the EU and NATO and the consequences for peace, stability, and security in Greece and the wider region of Southeast Europe and the Eastern Mediterranean were the focus of discussions at the international meeting “Athens Security Forum” organized by the Institute of International Relations (IDIS) on the 24th of November in Athens with the participation of leading academics and policymakers.
In this “Ti kosmos” podcast Marilisa Anastasopoulou asks questions to the speakers of the Forum and selects extracts from their speeches to convey key messages addressed at the forum.
This podcast includes Peter Altmaier, former Minister of Finance and Energy of Germany; Mikulas Dzurinda, President of the W. Martens Centre and former Prime Minister of Slovakia; Mircea Geoana, NATO Deputy Secretary General; Margaritis Schinas, Vice President of the European Commission; Dimitris Keridis – MP &Professor of International Politics, Panteion University; Efraim Inbar - President Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security, Israel; and Mustafa Aydin - President, International Relations Council of Turkey, Turkey.
You may follow the whole forum at the website of Institute of International Relations (IDIS): https://idis.gr/asf/.
The 4th and concluding event of the 2022 Athens Security Forum was organized by IDIS, under the auspices of the City of Athens and in partnership with the Wilfried Martens Centre for European Studies, the Konrad Adenauer Stiftung, the Harriman Institute at Columbia University and NATO.
“Ti kosmos” podcast is supported by the Public Diplomacy Division of NATO.
[00:00:06.010] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
On the 24 February 2022, Putin announced he would conduct a special military operation in Ukraine.
[00:00:13.760] - Putin's voice
(In Russian: "I decided to conduct a special military operation")
[00:00:18.790] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
Minutes later, there were explosions near Kiev and the whole country.
[00:00:28.390] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
The invasion had started.
[00:00:30.710] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
President Zelensky, addressing Ukrainian people, declared martial law and said, we are going to win anybody because we are Ukraine. Glory to Ukraine.
[00:00:49.610] - President's Zelensky voice
(In Ukrainian:We are strong. We are ready for everything. We are going to win anybody because we are Ukraine. Glory to Ukraine.)
[00:00:49.610] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
It has been more than nine months since the invasion of Ukraine, and the world will never be the same.
[00:00:58.390] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
You're listening to "Ti Kosmos" podcast, and I am your hostess, Marilisa Anastasopoulou
[00:01:07.200] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
On November 24, under the Acropolis, the Institute of International Relations, organized the 4th event of the 2022 Athens Security Forum, focusing on how the war in Ukraine has affected European security. I had the opportunity to follow the forum and interview some of the speakers. Here are some highlights.
[00:01:27.570] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
Mr. Mircea Geoană - Deputy Secretary General of NATO.
[00:01:30.940] - Mircea Geoană
And you asked me at the beginning, how is NATO doing? We are doing great, thank you. And we are doing great because this dramatic transformation of European security and world affairs is indicating the indispensable role of NATO as the real guarantee for European security and the need for the transatlantic bond. And of course, NATO - EU partnership is critical in making sure that we have coherence and synergies.
[00:02:06.490] - Mircea Geoană
Also, NATO is doing much more across all domains of land, in sea, in air, in space and cyberspace. We have taken since last February fundamental steps to strengthen interest and defence, from the Baltic to the Black Sea, and with Sweden and Finland from the north to the Baltic to the Black and to the Mediterranean Sea. So that's an eastern flank of significant length and depth. And I think this is good for European security as a whole.
[00:02:39.130] - Mircea Geoană
Greece is a highly valued NATO ally, and it's a key to security and stability in Southeast Europe and also in the Mediterranean. And your naval forces strengthen our maritime posture. Your jets keep the skies of a Montenegro safe, and you contribute to our missions in Iraq and Kosovo. Greece also leads by example when it comes to defence spending. Investing 2% of GDP in defence. And continuing to invest in defence is continuing to invest in our future, in our security, because, as the war in Ukraine shows, security is the foundation for everything.
[00:03:17.770] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
Mikuláš Dzurinda - President of Wilfried Martens Centre for European Studies and former Prime Minister of Slovakia
[00:03:20.210] - Mikuláš Dzurinda
It is not normal that Europe is more numerous than the United States, economically comparable with the United States, but we are powerless.
[00:03:30.090] - Mikuláš Dzurinda
It cannot work. And I am sure that it is also good for the United States, for our allies in NATO, if Europe will represent equally strong military pillar of NATO, which is able to defend not only the eastern flank of NATO, but also the southern flank of NATO.
[00:03:55.310] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
The vice president of the European Commission, Mr. Margaritis Schinas.
[00:04:00.340] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
A general question how the war in Ukraine has affected the European Union?
[00:04:04.920] - Margaritis Schinas
The answer is very simple: a lot. As a consequence of the war, the European Union has taken unprecedented historic decisions.We've managed to deliver on outcomes that have never even been contemplated in community history. First, we activated for the first time ever, this blanket protection status, temporary protection status for over 6 million Ukrainian refugees, which gave them immediate and unconditional access to our job market, to our education and health systems. For the first time ever, we used EU taxpayers money to buy weapons for a third country. We are the world champions of microeconomic assistance to Ukraine. We have delivered more than €19 billion so far in the first nine months of the war and we have already pledged for €20 billion more for next year.
[00:05:10.510] - Margaritis Schinas
Ukraine is fighting because the European Union is supporting the state of Ukraine economically. So the war has singled the transition of a Europe of naivety and innocence to a Europe of assertiveness and confidence. And that's a reality.
[00:05:34.380] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
Mr. Peter Altmaier - former Minister for Economic Affairs and Energy in Germany
[00:05:40.480] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
What is the effect of the war in Ukraine when it comes -and I'm talking about the one thing you would choose when it comes to Germany or German defence.
[00:05:49.270] - Peter Altmaier
Well, the war in Ukraine is a big challenge for freedom and democracy in Europe. I'm optimistic we will meet the challenge. The second point is that we are facing a recession and this recession can be more easily overcome if we strengthen European unity, european solidarity between poorer and richer countries, between smaller and bigger countries, between east and west. The third challenge is that we have to make sure that Europe remains leading economical, political and technological power worldwide because we have seen in this Russian war against Ukraine that Russia has been unsuccessful because it was an economically weak country, a technologically weak country. And therefore one lesson is we have to spend more for defence, we have to spend more for research and development and we have to implement our research and development results in industrial projects worldwide.
[00:06:53.050] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
Mr. Dimitris Kairidis- Greek MP and Professor of International Politics at Panteion University
[00:07:00.310] - Dimitris Kairidis
I think no matter how the war ends, and it will end at some point, the main basic effect is that it leads to the breakdown of the relationship between Russia and Europe. This relationship will never be the same again. Europe will never be overdependent, over reliant on Russian energy sources the way it was until February 2022.
[00:07:28.610] - Dimitris Kairidis
Russia is turning eastwards away from Europe and this is a great tragedy for Russia and for Europe. And Ukraine will - whatever is left of Ukraine, we hope the bigger the better, the more the better -ukraine will Europeanize. This old question about the identity and orientation of Ukraine, how European it is, I think it has been answered through the brutality of President Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Ukraine will be a part of Europe, at some point of the EU, at a later point, of the rest of the Euro- Atlantic institutions. I think this will be the main, very concrete result of this tragic war.
[00:08:27.340] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
Mr. Efraim Inbar - president of the Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security in Israel
[00:08:34.170] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
There has been a recent rapprochement between Israel and Turkey. How real is this and can Erdogan be trusted?
[00:08:41.590] - Efraim Inbar
Well, trust is not the part of my vocabulary in international politics. Turkey is an important country and we didn't have full diplomatic relations. And I think it's a good development that we have diplomatic relations with Turkey. But I don't think that we are able at this stage to return to the type of relationship we had in the 90s because, after all, Erdogan belongs to the Islamic Muslim brothers and these are not our cup of tea.
[00:09:15.190] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
Mr. Mustafa Aydin - president of the International Relations Council of Turkey
[00:09:22.010] - Mustafa Aydin
Finally, let me make a point about Turkey. Energy is an important, obviously for everybody, but for Turkey too, but it's a secondary issue. Let us not make a mistake why Turkey has been so active in the last couple of years in the eastern Mediterranean. It's not about energy. It might look like it, but it's not.For Turkey I think Syria is the survival issue. So I'll give you kind of a list of priorities. Syria is the survival issue because it touches the Kurds, it touches the Turkish domestic politics, it touches Turkish borders, everything. So it's the survival issue. Aegean and maybe now is part of the East- Med, becoming, but Aegean is a sovereignty issue for Turkey. Discussions about the islands, the militarization, territorial waters, continental shelf, everything, it's not a survival issue, but it's a sovereignty issue. It's secondary, but it's important. And I think Ukraine, as well as Cyprus, and I'm going out of limp here, Ukraine and Cyprus are regional security issues for Turkey. So let me repeat that again. They are not survival issues. They are not sovereignty issues, but they are regional security issues.
[00:10:46.800] - Mustafa Aydin
Energy is an economic security issue. It's even down the list. So we have to keep this kind of a list when we are analyzing what Turkey is doing and why it's doing it.
[00:11:00.340] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
You can watch online all these very interesting panels of the Athens Security Forum on the website and on the YouTube channel of the Institute of International Relations, that is that is idis.gr.
[00:11:13.000] - Marilisa Anastasopoulou
The forum was held with the support of the Wilfried Martens Centre for European Studies, the Konrad Adenauer Foundation, the Harriman Institute at Columbia University, NATO and the City of Athens.