We Women Writers

Jane Jones - The Power of Daily Writing

• Jane Jones • Episode 19

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In this conversation, Coralee Nelson and Jane Jones discuss insights from their book 'Nurturing Your Writing Calm' and the experiences of successful authors. They explore the importance of finding one's voice in writing, the impact of early experiences and gender on writing journeys, and the significance of daily writing practices. The discussion emphasizes the value of creativity, encouragement, and the transformative power of writing.

Takeaways

  • Women writers often face unique challenges compared to their male counterparts.
  • Daily writing, even for just five minutes, can lead to significant growth.
  • Writing is a gift to oneself and can impact others positively.

Quote:

"What do we really want?”

Resources:

Nurturing Your Writing Calm: https://www.amazon.com/Nurturing-Your-Writing-Calm-Connecting-ebook/dp/B07JRHD5J8/ref

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Coralee Nelson (00:28)

Hi everyone, I'm Coralee Nelson, co-author of Nurturing Your Writing Calm, and with me is my co-author, Marguerite Jane Jones. We're with you today to share some exciting insights gleaned from successful authors and writers. Before we published our book, Jane had the opportunity to interview almost 50 successful authors for her We Women Writers Project. What we're providing for you in these interviews is a series

Thereby, we explore key learnings that came out of those interviews. Hi, Jane. Thanks for your willingness to share your knowledge and insights.

Jane Jones (01:08)

Hi, Coralee. I'm really glad to be here, and thank you very much for taking your time to do this. I really appreciate it very much.

Coralee Nelson (01:15)

Well, it's going to be a good time. I anticipate we'll all learn some really exciting things as you process your experiences interviewing successful authors. Now, Jane, you are also involved with We Women Writers and have a particular heart to support women grow in their writing capacity. Can you tell us a little bit about your interests?

Jane Jones (01:39)

Yes, Coralee, I'll go back to my early years. My very early years, they were marked with a lot of confusion, and a measure of neglect, and uncertainty, and fear as well. And I got no corner on the market on that one, so not getting the violin out is just the way I grew up. So as I grew, I accepted the role of helping others, even in my workaday world life I tell people my job is to be helpful. So that's kind of defines me for very many years. So, I spent a lot of time caring for other people, their needs, and even though I was ill-equipped as a youngster and even into my teenage and early adult life, I still had to take care of business. I still had to gather information, and I had to perceive situations.

And I connected the dots and situations into a picture, and I didn't always do it correctly. And I just kind of made a bit of a mess of a lot of things. I did a lot of things right, too, which is great. But I had, from the time I was little, a desire to write, when I learned how to read, I remember it. And when I learned how to write, was, wow, you know? And it was, I loved it. When I started putting things on writing, but writing on paper, it wasn't greeted very well. It wasn't supported. So, it went underground. And it was a part of myself that I really kept quiet. And I half suspect there's a lot of people have that similar situation. So, I began to when I thought to get out of a very difficult situation, probably in the early 90s, and my writing looked a lot like a five-year-old pretending to write cursive. It was just spilling stuff out on the page. But that was me. It was my life. And I have those notebooks now and can't read very much of it, but it's me. So, now when I started to do that, I stopped doing what I wanted to do, what was me, and to take care of the needs of other people, which was valid, but I was also taking direction from other people. And to be fair to them, I wasn't being honest with them about who I really was and what I really wanted. I was being steered in a bunch of different directions. My writing was something that I can say kind of saved me.

I think a lot of people, my experience with a lot of people is they're looking for something and they're going from this person to that person, from this book to that book. And there's a little bit of value in every one of those books, generally speaking. But what's missing is the each of us. It's what somebody else found and what they put on paper. And that's really lovely. But what did I find about me and how did I find it? And that's what the We Women Writers and the Nurturing Your Writing Calm my absolutely happy fortune to be introduced to you was that's the goal is for people to, women to write, specifically men too, but for women to write and find what they think and what they want. And in the light of what other people are supporting, that's true, but what do we really want?

What do we really think? And that's why I want to do the We Women Writers.

Coralee Nelson (05:25)

So, from your early experiences, just realizing that you didn't have much of a voice. And over time, when writing was open to you and then reading was open to you, or probably in the other order, you learned that what you had to offer wasn't acceptable for some way. And so over time, that side of you needed to lay dormant.

Jane Jones (05:57)

Yeah, it really did. And I remember going to, when I was a little girl, going up into the bookmobile. And I remember sitting in this little section of books, and I would get the same books all the time. And I remember those books. And I've been able to secure copies of some of those books because they mean so much to me. And then when the bookmobile stopped, my mother drove me one time, twice, sorry, up to the library, which was maybe five, six miles away. And the first time I came up with a bunch of books I was so excited. But I didn't, I couldn't get the books back and when we went to take them back they were late. And that was the last time my mother ever took me to the library.

 

Coralee Nelson (06:40)

Yeah, so a lot of early experiences that contribute to your current interest, is really to support women find their own narrative, their own voice, to experience writing in a non-judgmental venue that is safe, and supportive, and encouraging.

Jane Jones (07:02)

Yes, and when we are writing, there is this part of us that's critic, they call it the critic, but when we're writing and we're cycling through it and we're giving ourselves permission, that little critic gets a little tired and realizes that they're really being goofy and they give it up.

Coralee Nelson (07:22)

Right, right, and I think with some people, how that inner critic is louder than for other people. For individuals who have had some challenging experiences around personal expression of whatever kind, and it could be in the written format, it could be speaking, or in other ways, sometimes that critic's louder. And so having practices and supports and encouragement in a person's life allows that little voice to start to settle and come into alignment with hopes and dreams.

Jane Jones (07:51)

Yes, and there is a real value to actually writing. There's what your hands do actually really matters. And you know, the idea of an open hand or a closed fist or things like that. We will learn a lot about ourselves, just writing a few minutes every day.

Coralee Nelson (08:12)

Right, yeah, yeah, that's true. And in our book, we really encourage people to take daily time to write without judgment, without criticism, find that peace inside, and then move out into a productive writing space. And I said that word, and then I kind of wanted to shy away from it. Productive, not in the way that it is for the purpose of meeting a deadline or a goal or a standard of some kind, but just in production, if nothing else.

Jane Jones (08:46)

Yeah, and what I hear when you say that is more like a little bit of inspiration and support. That it's productive in those ways. That, I wrote for five minutes, woo-hoo! And then after a couple of days, it starts to take on more importance. And I'm beginning to find as I research this, because most of this is just what I know, just what I figured out. And I'm finding that there's real, and you've been hugely helpful to me on this one, but doing more research as well, there are lots of really successful people. And I am finding this five minutes showing up in different places that people have been doing for years. And yeah.

Coralee Nelson (09:26)

Yeah, it's amazing how just a small investment, five minutes a day or something like that, can have an incredible, incredible outcome. So, Jane, for your project, We Women Writers Project, you interviewed many women, like I said earlier, almost 50 people in total, but you also interviewed a few men. Did you notice that writing stories varied between the men and the women that you interviewed?

Jane Jones (10:00)

No, the writing stories were very similar because we all have the same experience when we're little. We'd read a book, and then we're learning, we're sat down in a classroom, we're shown how to print and things like that. And there's variations, and then they tell us we're gonna do creative writing and pardon me, first they tell us how to write our names, and then somebody's controlling how we do that and then we've got to write a story and then they're telling what kind of story to write. And so, this comfort with creativity and imagination really is not encouraged. It just isn't. It is not developed. So, situations are very similar. However, I did find that there was a, what's the word I'm looking for? There was a response and a result difference. Now it's a very, very, very, very tiny group that I, in terms of being able to draw any clear conclusions, but the men seem to not be as bothered by some of the things that other women would be upset by. Because maybe they grew up in our culture, you know, this, there's in terms of the male dominance, and most of the people I interviewed were over 40. So, and I will be interviewing some younger ones soon, but they, their responses, like if somebody was unhappy and was standing up for themselves, the women were largely marginalized. And then that added to their struggle inside, and it was some were helpful and some were not. But men were generally, if they were not lauded, they were kind of just ignored and let to do what they want and weren't usually overly disciplined too much. And then they had different results.

Coralee Nelson (12:02)

So then, this was with respect to the imagination or the creative element that women and or men were encountering in their early childhood years.

 

 

Jane Jones (12:13)

Yes, girls were, their writing styles would get very floral and they get very big and they're very egocentric kind of. And then the boys had a tendency to get really small and very angular. They have to kind of take all that creative wonderful part of themselves and stick it over in the corner and get really analytical. And girls were like, do do do do do, and because nobody took them seriously. And so, the creativity in both groups were kind of goofed with. However, the men, I think, they seem to be able to view their experiences as useful to them. They could use them, because they weren't as wounded, I would gently suggest. And then they found an expression or the outlet, and there was a purpose in their writing. They had a tendency to be able to, or even just go into a different line, like they would go into head stuff, or in this age group, there was more, they did shop, auto shop, and woodworking, and things like that.

Coralee Nelson (13:27)

So really kind of mechanistic, task-focused, even if you're using the term angular, makes me think more of that left brain, logical, sequential, and less integration between the creative side and the expected side, which would be step one to 10.

Jane Jones (13:49)

And it would be the same but opposite for the girls.

Coralee Nelson (13:53)

Right, right. So, they were suppressed based on that right brain integration, abstract, creative, imaginative flow that would just self-generate.

Jane Jones (14:05)

Yeah, yeah. Now that's a very small, and it is an area that I would just love to be able to hear more from people that really have done some research about that. And I've identified a few people to have some conversations with them because I would love to know more about that because I think that would be helpful to me in helping to encourage and inspire women to write. Men too.

Coralee Nelson (14:27)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I find the demographic that you've identified interesting, and you know, the gender typical around men having kind of a set way of doing business and being comfortable or confident, not having to make excuses for it. And then women being more, I'm going to use the word insecure about the product, or at least being made to feel insecure if it didn't start that way.

 

Jane Jones (15:00)

Yes, because I think that comes from the confusion. Because we go to school and we're put in school with people we don't know. And we're put people that are in charge of us, we don't know them. And we're coming from whatever level of confusion we have in our own homes. so, whereas boys have, I don't know whether it's just cultural, whether it's, I don't know, I don't know enough about it, but they...

There's a level of confusion with women, and it certainly has absolutely marked my life. There's lots of different ways it showed up. When I write, and for me when I talk, I'm a talkative person, people have guessed by now, and I will process things by talking, and I will process things when I write. And if I can write as fast as I can think, I do really well, that's up on the, can't read my writing half the time. But when I really want to, okay, I really want to know what this is, then my whole mind and my whole body will slow down, and I'll write really nicely. Because I, it's important to keep that information. The other stuff is, you know, sunsets that are gone, you know.

Coralee Nelson (16:18)

Right, right. So based on your experience interviewing writers and authors, what kinds of themes did you uncover about how successful writers developed and grew into a measure of confidence? Maybe starting at an early age, but we've kind of heard about that part as they grew and matured in their writing journey.

Jane Jones (16:42)

Yeah, it was really, really wonderful actually to see it because, you know, coming out of the same sort of soup, if you like, people as they began to grow in their, they began to be able to choose more of the experience they would pay attention to and the ones they wouldn't. And so some in the interviews realized that they had chosen negative situations to attach to. And they went, oh, that's interesting, you know, and so they were able to be aware of things, which was really nice. So, to me, that's both sides of the mind being active, but not being judging of anything. The ones that were, if they had a tendency to be judgmental, was when they got stuck. And when they lost the judgmentalism, they became more free. They didn't... They had more of a tendency to not struggle with the situation, with what they saw, what they experienced, and some of them would get really clever. They would just pretend it didn't bother them, even though it did. And then they would just do what they needed to do to feel okay in terms of their writing or being quiet or going for a walk or going to the story in the ravine or whatever they did.

 

Coralee Nelson (17:49)

Right.

Jane Jones (18:02)

And they would just keep it under wraps, and they would be active writing or they'd find another outlet of creativity that was acceptable. They were really, but they could see the threads of the creativity and the imagination throughout their lives. Even the ones that were, went to universities and had letters behind their names and quite successful. They were really quiet about a lot of what they do and how they because they they needed to stay owning that I think, and where they they would decide what they would put out there and what they wouldn't.

Coralee Nelson (18:42)

Yeah, yeah, that's fair. You know, it's interesting to think of those individuals that you're identifying in particular who used it, used the pretend strategy, which is, you know, even though I'm having some, you know, pushback or criticism, internal or external, I'm going to persist. Maybe it's not writing, but you would use the term another creative outlet. And you know, that is a powerful strategy for the writer who is feeling stuck or feeling broken or lost or confused is to pretend. And it sounds a bit ludicrous, but we can use our minds for all kinds of productive things. And pretending to be a writer can sometimes overcome the blocks that exist.

Jane Jones (19:34)

Yeah, and I love what you just said is about we can pretend to be a writer. Because I've had conversations since the Nurturing Your Writing com came out, and I've had conversations with people and interacting and they would say, but I'm not a writer. And I would say, well, you write post-it notes? Yeah. Do you write notes in your kids’ lunch bags? Yeah, then you're a writer. And you have to be a Pulitzer Prize winner, although they're totally amazing. You don't have to be a New York Times bestseller, although they're totally wonderful. Maybe you're just gonna be writing letters to your peak friends. Maybe that's what it is. But the ability to be clear about what you wanna say and how you wanna say it will increase when with this, even writing for five minutes a day.

 

 

Coralee Nelson (20:28)

Yeah, yeah. You know, the people that we encounter are those people who want to do more than write letters to friends or notes in their kids' lunchboxes. But it's that fear. And, you know, our mantra is just do it. Just set your timer. Do a calming strategy. Write for five minutes a day and put it aside. That's writing. And there's some real power and potential in that.

 

Jane Jones (20:59)

Oh, there sure is, you know, and I do half wonder, and with some that I know, I half suspect, whether they actually do want to be a writer in terms of doing something they don't quite know, but that is too hard, or they haven't had something to push them out of the way. I had a particular incident, conversation I had that absolutely took that dream of being a writer and shoved it out into the light. And there was no more, it was not going back. And so not everybody's had that experience, not everybody needs something like that. Sometimes it's this gentle nudging, five minutes a day, just write it and put it away. And you find some amazing, you get excited about what you see flow out onto the paper.

 

Coralee Nelson (21:50)

Well, you do, and we did our own little pilot with our nurturing your writing calm process. And I have the notebook that I used for that particular pilot exercise, and I stumble upon it every now and again. And you know, I am an academic writer, so everything has to be cited APA, American Psychological Association Standards. And so, you know, it was a challenge for me to shift focus. And I grew up writing plays and stories and, you know, a few little accomplishments that I had, but when I went on in university, that dried up. And so, our little 40-day pilot that we did was really a powerful experience of writing only five minutes.

 

Jane Jones (22:36)

Yes, and we find that we can be creative for five minutes. Yes. We don't have to turn into a full-fledged creative writer. We can have that impact and enhance our lives, our everyday work-a-day lives.

 

Coralee Nelson (22:51)

Yeah, there are multiple sides to this interesting creativity coin. And, you know, that's perhaps for another conversation. if people are interested, we describe the benefits in our book. But Jane, I was wondering, was there anything that stood out to you about how creativity and imagination was fostered in the lives of the authors that you interviewed?

Jane Jones (23:15)

They all had an interest in playing and exploring. Wasn't always writing. It was, it could be something with just their surroundings. It could be colors. It could be their friends. They would really get involved with interacting with their friends and having fun. They also gave voice to what they were doing. So, like you suggested earlier about writing plays and things like that, they would give a voice to what they were doing. They would make plays or puppet shows or they would submit their writing to little magazines and little newspapers, and some couple people even ran their own little newspaper and they just kept busy at being creative, which is really lovely. And through that process, they seemed to have developed, they probably already had it, but they even did, that develops a right word, their own brilliance if you like their own I this is what I do. This is who I am and and I like it and they would accept that other people didn't like it and they were good with that. They wouldn't try to change anybody. They just did what they were going to do They also were really good at collaborating. Both with them on their own in their own head like I'm gonna you know interact and I'm gonna this paper I want to try a different kind of paper and I want to try a different kind of pen or whatever and they would have ideas and then they would collaborate with others really, really well. These are the people that were in school, high school, and college, universities that would be on a team, and they would be the ones that would be really driving the little group and making sure everything got done, even if they had to do work that other people failed to do. They were really good at that.

Coralee Nelson (25:13)

I find that interesting. I mean, so much research is coming out on neural exercises. Stephen Porteous would be one that talks about that and playfulness, creativity, imagination. It strikes me that these people engaged early and persisted despite pushback in their creativity.

Jane Jones (25:37)

Yes, and then for like something that I experienced when was little, we lived on a ravine and there was a creek down the bottom and it was really lovely. There was a little bridge at the bottom there, and my sisters and I would spend hours and hours in this ravine. Just, whoa it was crazy and we just explored and we would dig out the clay and we would bring it up to our sandbox and we would you know pretend we were potters, just doing anything that's creative takes any kind of situation you're working in and it gets the mind able to process it in a way more healthy, productive way.

Coralee Nelson (26:17)

Yeah, and you know, for the purposes of our interview today, we don't have time to go into the neuroscience around that, but rest assured, there is much. And so, you know, for those who are listening, an encouragement to you is don't forget your playful creative side. There are stresses, there are pressures, there are demands, there are things that must be done, but engaging that side of you opens up, as Jane mentioned earlier, the capacity to use integration and problem-solving even in non-creative tasks. She was describing those individuals who had grown up being creative and then, you know, were managing the basketball team in the high school. No one else wanted to or whatever the case was. Problem-solving and creativity are a wonderful set of companions.

Jane Jones (27:15)

Yep, they are.

Coralee Nelson (27:17)

Well, Jane, just in light of the idea of encouragement, is there one encouragement that you would give our listeners about continuing or starting their own writing?

Jane Jones (27:31)

Three words, write, write, write. And that was that what came through in my writing and it was given that same thing in the number of books that I bought from people, writers. When they give me, they write a little thing inside of it. A lot of them will in there. They'll just say, write, write It's pretty amazing how that message comes through. And five minutes. And pen and paper, find a balance between the computer and the pen and paper. And when you're writing, just feel your pen and watch the ink as it comes out, flows out onto the page. And it's creating you. It's you that's coming out onto that page. And your thoughts, your ideas, your imaginations, it's you. And this is a way that you can care for yourself, and you can honor yourself and explore some of the things that maybe are just waiting to come on out.

 

Coralee Nelson (28:32)

What great advice, Jane. And I love the little mindfulness exercise you gave us right at the end. Pen on paper, watch your ink flow. Being in the present, being in the moment, hearing from yourself, your own personal narrative, it's to be celebrated. It's to be honored. It's a gift to you. And depending on where you're at in life, it may well be a gift to others.

Jane Jones (28:57)

Yes, absolutely. Thank you for that.

Coralee Nelson (29:00)

Well, Jane, thank you very much for this enlightening conversation. You shared so many things, talking about your own life experiences and how they were wrought with some confusion and disappointment, and not quite knowing where you fit. And then using writing at some point to start to put those pieces together. Of course, you know, it's not perfect, but these things come together and learning to discover your own voice, your own writing. And then of course this opportunity to interview almost 50 successful authors has brought to you and to us a wealth of wisdom as they continued and persisted in creativity so that it would foster and develop their growth as writers, I think is just a real gift. And your encouragement to people who are listening today, write, write, write. Use a computer, but also use a pen and paper. Feel the pen in your fingers as the ink flows onto the page, and just relish that you are you and you have a gift to give to yourself and to the world. So, thank you very much, Jane. I just really appreciate your time.

Jane Jones (30:23)

Oh, thank you, Coralee. I really appreciate you taking this time, and I appreciate that you hear what I have said, and looking forward to the listeners, this impacting them in a positive way in their lives too. So, thanks again.

Coralee Nelson (30:39)

Wonderful. Have a great day.

Jane Jones (30:41)

You too. Bye-bye now.