Kathleen Gage - The Transformative Power of Writing

In this conversation, Jane Jones and Kathleen Gage explore the transformative power of writing, discussing Kathleen's journey from poetry to journaling and how writing has shaped her life and advocacy work. They delve into the importance of finding one's voice, the healing aspects of writing, and the impact it can have on both personal growth and social change. Kathleen shares her experiences with various writing forms and encourages listeners to embrace their own writing journeys, regardless of their background or aspirations.

Takeaways

Your voice matters; don't hesitate to share your thoughts.

Writing can open doors to unexpected opportunities.

Writing can be a form of advocacy and social change.

Writing is about expressing your truth, regardless of judgment.

Quote

I think for writers, sometimes writers hold themselves back, thinking, well, what do I have to say? Who's gonna listen to me? And the reality is that it's just about you putting your thoughts, pen to paper or fingers to computer, and letting the ideas flow because your voice is a voice that people want to hear. 

Websites

www.VeganVisibility.com

Social Media

https://x.com/kathleengage

https://www.facebook.com/VeganVisibilityNetwork 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathleengage/ 

Podcasts

https://veganvisibility.com/kathleens-podcasts/

Transcript

Jane Jones (00:30)

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to We Women Writers. I'm Jane, and today we have with us Kathleen Gage. And Kathleen is the author of several books, a business consultant, and a podcaster. For more than 30 years, Kathleen's books, including her most recent Speak Out, Turn Your Voice Into Mission Movement and a Thriving Business, her consulting company, Vegan Visibility, and her podcasts, Vegan Visibility and plant-based eating for health, guide entrepreneurs, authors, and professionals in building their businesses, sharing their message, and confidently using their voices in the global vegan marketplace. Based in central Oregon, Kathleen enjoys a rural lifestyle with her wife and is deeply committed to animal advocacy, having rescued numerous animals who now live safely on their property. Whether writing, speaking, or consulting, her mission is clear. Help people step forward, speak with confidence, and build businesses and lives that truly matter. Welcome Kathleen.

Kathleen Gage (01:42)

Jane, it is great to be here. Thank you.

Jane Jones (01:44)

I appreciate you. this is our second actually conversation that we're taping for We Women Writers. We'll start with… Tell us about your writing journey. What would you like us to know?

Kathleen Gage (01:57)

Well, you know, my first memory of writing something that I felt really good about, and I got some great feedback from a teacher in third grade. I wrote a of a mystery story, and I'm not a novelist at all at this point in my life, but back then it was a fiction story and put a lot of effort into it, and my teacher said, You've got a skill here. I think you could be a good writer. And I was just thrilled because to have that kind of feedback from a teacher made it I think it set me on a course that I’d may have not really pursued but  what I have found with writing  I’ve written all my life and there was a period where i wrote a lot of poetry and it was during a period where  woe is me life is tough and it was in my twenties and life was tough at that time I actually quit drinking when I was

29 years old and a lot of the toughness came as a result of my drinking so I'd write poems while I was drinking and it was like my gosh I read those when I got sober and I was like whoa that was a dark place but then I moved into journaling and I found that journaling really helped me to process my thoughts and the first book that I wrote  I believe it was in 2002 called message of hope and I actually have it right here this particular book right here, Message of Hope. And I wrote this after a friend of mine passed away from AIDS. He was 36 years old, and he had a heart attack, and I was devastated. I was like, how could that have happened? And so I sat down and just wrote my thoughts, and just kept writing and writing and writing, and decided that I first I gave the writing to his family, and they loved it. And they said, you need to write a book. And so I actually started my own publishing company. I tend to be a real self-starter. And I thought, okay, I'm not going to wait on a publisher. I'm going to go ahead and have my own publishing label. And it's called Maxwell Publishing. My first book was Message of Hope. And it really didn't get any legs as far as making any money or selling a lot of copies because back then, I really didn't know how to market a book.  Moving forward into, I think this was about 15 years ago, 14 or 15 years ago, Power Up for Profits. This book, with one event that I did, made a substantial amount of money. Not only sold a lot of copies, but I brought on a lot of consulting clients. And I had learned a formula that when you're an author, there are things that you can do to actually increase sales, use the book as a feeder into your business, into lead generation, and into ultimately revenue generation.

Jane Jones (04:46)

Yeah, but that's the book when I met you. That was the book that we had a conversation about. Yes.

Kathleen Gage (04:52)

And very successful book and actually it was one that I really enjoyed writing because it was by that point it was only a few years of digital marketing but I have a lot of marketing background but I took what I knew about digital marketing and I put it into a book format and what I love about books that are non-fiction is that I was able to repurpose the content into digital programs, into training programs, into three-day events, to where it literally generated hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Jane Jones (05:27)

Okay, so you've just brought a like a Some opposites but not really opposites just different expressions of the same thing you talked about the memory that you have is being in a third grade and writing a mystery novel mystery story and the recognition you got from that but then that's in mystery and that's as a child that's a an important time and then in the 20s when you're going through some really difficult times and drinking more than you ought to.

Kathleen Gage (05:58)

One drink for me is more than I ought to.

Jane Jones (06:01)

Okay, okay. I understand, I hear you loud and clear. And suffering through that, but finding your way through. You can look at the poetry, that you look back at it, and it's like, woe is me, you say that phrase that takes me back to when I was a kid, this idea that Joe Bixsplit, know, everything is bad. But it really was then you went to journaling, was there a feeling or a thought or an awareness that poetry was something that, and explain a little bit, brought you through that, but now there needed to be something new and not morphing the poetry, but going into journaling.

Kathleen Gage (06:44)

That is such a great question, Jane. And I think with the poetry, and I've never really even talked about this. So, you know, this is complete download. The poetry was a lot about how wrong people, the wrongs that people did to me, the lost love. And, you know, I look back at that period of my life. I've been sober for 42 years now, and I look at that period. Yeah, thank you. But in that period, no wonder people didn't want to be around me, my life was a mess and so I would write about how wrong I felt people had treated me and looking back it's like well no wonder I was just you know I wasn't the kind of person that I would even want to be around I think the poetry was just a way to save my sanity whatever bit of sanity I had at that time and the journaling that came as a result of going to garage sales because I ended up in a place where I had no job, had no roof over my head, I had to rely on friends to give me a couch to sleep on. I mean, my life was very different than it is today. And the journaling came as a result of going to garage sales and the goodwill and buying books for a nickel to 10 cents way back when, and reading about how writing your feelings down would be a really good idea. And then also getting into a 12-step program.

There's a big part of a 12-step program is writing down what your experiences have been and you know step four is all about taking a personal inventory and so It just became a part of my my everyday existence if you will and it really helped me to process a lot of the behaviors that I had and a lot of the choices I made and to make better choices, so there was that period of journaling and I still to this day journal but my journaling today is very different. It's like I actually have a process where every day for 10 minutes, I'll set a timer. I just start doing a download, and it's usually in the morning, I do reading out of a physical book, and then I do some journaling, and it helps me to set the tone for the day, and then I go on a walk. Like this morning, before we started this conversation, I went on a 45-minute walk. I live out in a beautiful area in Oregon near a river, and there's cows and pastures and sheep and all this. I just, I'm so grateful that this sets the tone for the day. And so it's a process that I use frequently.

Jane Jones (09:10)

Yeah, I think I'd like to put a pin in this one and I'd like to at another time really explore the differences in your experience between poetry and journaling because generally people will shy away from poetry and then there's some people that use poetry as a really light, beautiful kind of thing and it can be difficult but the value that you benefited from the experience you had of poetry in getting you through something and then that stopped and then you went into something else. It's still writing, but it's a different one, so if you put a pin in that and come back another time, that would be great. Yeah, now your experience, I'd like to just you talked about this Message of Hope book, and I'm just particularly interested in that

Kathleen Gage (09:54)

I would love to.

Jane Jones (10:04)

Initially, it's a gift for the family of your friend who passed away.

Kathleen Gage (10:09)

Let me show you the evolution it went through. This was the first version of the book, right there. And then we turned it into an actual book. Really, it's just thoughts. There's no storyline to it. It's just thoughts about gratitude or grieving or loss. I would just sit and write, and I actually initially was journaling about the loss of our friend, and then I turned it into short daily thoughts. And it's one of those books you can open up anywhere, and you've got your answer for the day.

Jane Jones (10:49)

Funny how that the experience of journaling, starts off with them often, often starts off with this going through something and going and then it morphs into a balance, a song, greatest gratefulness, or gratitude, or finding something special or something. It's amazing how that writing experience in journaling brings you through things.

Kathleen Gage (11:18)

Absolutely. You know, I couldn't imagine life without it. And I used to journal longhand. Now I use my computer, my laptop. And there's occasions where I will longhand, write, which I think is a really good practice for the brain. It kind of triggers different things in the brain. But I was talking to somebody recently. I was making some book recommendations to a young woman who probably is in her 20s. And I said, I'd be happy to give you these books. And she goes, no, I'll get the audiobooks. And I thought, you audio books are great however sitting down with a physical book not on the computer but a physical book there's something magical about it one of my favorite things to do is to go to a used bookstore and just the smell of the books and going to a library and unfortunately a lot of libraries are going by the wayside but there's something so magical to me about holding books I mean  I’ve got in my office alone I’ve probably got fifty books and then downstairs on my favorite chair I’ve got probably twenty books and I’ve read all of them and so it's not like i just buy books to buy books it's like I have a whole process where i want to absorb that information because we get to have somebody else's experience in a matter of a few hours

Jane Jones (12:31)

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. The reading, it goes in, and you are engaged with the writing of that person. Yeah, it's coming from their heart, and now you're... Absolutely. You talked about working, writing now on the computer, but you used to, and then you sometimes still do write longhand with your pen. Can you share with us the different experiences between those two for you physically?

Kathleen Gage (12:58)

That is another really great question, and I would say with the computer, I can actually put a lot of thoughts on paper without having to logically think about it. Just do what I call my downloads, and I just start typing. With the handwritten, it's just like as a thought comes to me, I'll write it down. Oftentimes, let's say I'm cleaning the house, and I'll carry a notepad with me, and I'll write down thoughts. Well, that thought will be the beginning of maybe an article, a blog post, it might be a social media post, or it might be a book like my book Speak Out that didn't start out with the intention of  being written as a book, and now it's a full-fledged book

Jane Jones (13:41)

Yeah, excellent. For me, I really feel that there's something really important about the use of our hands. And when we're engaged, and there's one experience on the computer, and a different one on the end, you've just very nicely communicated some of the differences. Because on the one of the things is that on the computer, have to sit here. But if longhand, you could carry a book in wherever you are write things down. And I know some people will say that they have their phones and they would put their, speak their things on the phone. We have so many different ways of writing down and capturing what we're thinking.

Kathleen Gage (14:19)

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jane Jones (14:22)

Yeah. You talked about your experience of going into, you got the book, and you're into Maxwell Publishing, and you said you were a self-starter. Does writing influence that, or is your writing influenced by this being a self-starter?

Kathleen Gage (14:45)

I think yes and yes. A lot of the writing that I do, especially nowadays because I'm very involved in animal compassion and animal advocacy through the vegan movement and which is a very misunderstood movement. It's really about the animals and the environment more than anything. And as I see an injustice, if you will.

It triggers something for me to write about, and currently, with you know, what's going on politically? There's a lot to write about because we see things that you're just going this doesn't feel right and what I realized, Jane, is that my voice is just as important as anybody else's voice, and I think for writers, sometimes writers hold themselves back thinking well, what do I have to say? Who's gonna listen to me? And the reality is that? It's just about you putting your thoughts, pen to paper or fingers to computer, and letting the ideas flow because your voice is a voice that people want to hear. Now, as far as how many people, we don't know. And when I write, I don't write to get social media clicks. I don't write to get accolades. I used to. And you know, there's a period where I went through having not been an achiever, and then. I became an overachiever. Was like I was working 16 hours a day, and it was never enough. I just, I had to get all the awards, all the accolades, all that. And as I've gotten older, I've kind of rested, I rest in a place of whatever I do today is what I should be doing. And yet for me, sometimes I don't think I'm doing a lot, and people go, my gosh, you're accomplishing so much. And it's, don't do it for the accomplishment. I do it because I'm being called to do it. So as far as like being a self-starter and that's what motivates me or what motivates me is to be a self-starter. I don't have an answer for that. All I know is that there's not a day that goes by that I don't in some way communicate my ideas.

Jane Jones (16:46)

So is it fair to say or suggest that being a self-starter is something that you are and that you find that expression through writing, and that that writing then as it accomplishes what it is you're setting out to do that it then feeds back into the being the self-starter that you're accomplishing something. So kind of like a bit of like a loop. Yeah, yeah. I would say so. Right? Well, we know it starts, it's got to start with being who you are, because we don't start writing.

Kathleen Gage (17:17)

You know, Jane, think a lot of people are afraid to show the world who they are. They're afraid of being judged. And regardless of what you say, what you stand for, what you believe, you're going to be judged. And so you may as well be judged for your truth rather than being judged for a lie.

Jane Jones (17:49)

Yes, and that is hugely important because you can go through a process, evolution if you like, of yourself. So you're writing as an overachiever, the internet, that's one thing, but now you're still writing, but the expression is different. You used the word rest; you're resting now. And so, could you share with us the experience of writing when you're an overachiever, like thinking about when you're writing and what that felt like and how it manifested, and then now what it feels like and how it manifests.

Kathleen Gage (18:29)

If I was going to frame it in an explanation, I would say that back in the day when I was making up for lost time, so I thought it was never enough. No matter, you know, I could write a book and sell a thousand copies in a day. And it's like, well, why didn't I sell a thousand and one? If I was going to be out doing a presentation, I, for quite a few years, for 30 years, I was a keynote speaker, and when COVID hit, I kind of let that go by the wayside, and I'm actually thinking of getting back out there and doing speaking again because I miss it. love the interaction, but I think that during that time, it was like if I got a room full of people who all rated me at 10, and one person rated me at two, and two being bad, I would focus on that one person. Well, what could I have done to make that one person love me more? And it's like it has nothing to do with that person loving you. It's like it's that person, it's you, you just go about your business. And today, a lot of it has to do with world affairs, and a lot of what I've seen happening in the world and how upside-down things are, that it's really about appreciating each and every day and having gone through the loss of both my parents, and what a huge loss that has been in life. That was quite a few years ago, but I still feel that loss and realizing that every day is a gift.

And that sounds a little airy-fairy, but the reality is every day is a gift, and we never know from one day to the next what's going to happen. And so, really valuing what we have in the moment that we have it. Like right now, the most important thing that I could be doing is having this conversation with you. What comes later today comes later today. But for this moment in time, it's about you.

Jane Jones (20:19)

And thank you. For me, it's about you as well. And I'm learning so much. You talked about this never enough. And so I now want to speak a little bit more, maybe for the listeners. You don't let that stop you. You still push forward, and maybe it comes from this self-starter part of you. Have you had times where you haven't done something because of being afraid of never being enough?

Kathleen Gage (20:51)

Well, I haven't jumped out of a plane yet, and I don't ever intend to but... There's some things that I'm just not going to do no matter how much people try to convince me to do so but... 

Jane Jones (20:55)

I mean, in terms of writing, have you have you not written something because you felt that you wouldn't be good enough that it wouldn't be.

Kathleen Gage (21:13)

Probably a novel, you know, it's like I often wondered what would it be like to because I  don't really read novels, but the few that I've read I'm just I'm so intrigued by how somebody comes up with a storyline and like if I'm watching a Netflix series and I'm watching the progression of a story, it's like how did they do that and probably with training I could learn how to do it. But it's that's one that I've not really delved into that. So I would say if there was a fear, it would be that, as far as, like, when I see a wrong in the world, I will write about it. For example, I just got through reading a couple of books. One is called Transfarmation, and it's about how to move from factory farms and the abuses to animals into vegetable farms, herb farms, things of that nature, and things that are more productive in the world. And Leah Garces is the woman who wrote that. And then another one is Little Red Barns by Will Potter.

It's about factory farms. Well, when I first made lifestyle choices around giving up meat and dairy in my food consumption, I thought the people that worked in factory farms were there by choice. Well, I've come to find out after years and years and years of being in this lifestyle that a lot of them are actually indentured servants, that they're there by no choice of their own. They have no other option. And the abuses that they go through. So, I've written articles about it to uncover the truth around that.

And I'll tell you, if you wanna get judged, write something about being a vegan. My gosh. People, it's like, it's crazy some of the things, know, people will say, well, I'm gonna eat two steaks today to make up for the steak you're not eating. And it's like, that doesn't even make sense. But initially, when I first started writing on topics like that, I took personal offense to what people said. Now it's just like, okay, they could be bots. They could be just trolls that are out there to get people upset. And what they believe is really none of my business. What is my business, and this is what I work with with my clients, is I say, your business is to get your message out there and to realize the more visible you are, the more criticism you're going to get and so you can't worry about it if you truly believe you're on your path if you truly believe what you're saying is true then your job is to put it out in whatever way that you possibly can whether it be through blogging whether it be through writing books whether it be through digital products podcast  interviews things that nature

Jane Jones (23:48)

Right, and this idea this writing changes things, and the fear of being out there and being judged, and so even to the point where people won't have a problem writing Post-it notes and things like that. But when it comes to actually writing something that's gonna change something. could change something within the person. So, some people would resist writing every day. And they don't know why, but maybe instinctively, intuitively, they know it's gonna change something, and they don't know what that's gonna look like. But we won't know what it's gonna look like until we do it. And this is where I'm finding, think that your... inspiration, your focus in life, the things that are important to you, and what you're finding out in the injustices that you're writing about, those are coming from a concern, a level of love and respect and care. that is there, that's nurtured, and it has to come out.

Kathleen Gage (24:56)

Well, when I write about what I see as an injustice, I really focus on writing in a way that I'm not passing judgment on people, but I'm presenting information so that they can consider it. A great example is recently there was a thread on Facebook, and it was the back and forth about how, know, pushy vegans are, and you know, we're trying to force our lifestyle on people. And this one man just kept attacking everybody who was posting.

And I said what I would invite you to do I said here are three books that I would invite you to read once you read that I'd be happy to have a discussion with you I mean and I left it at that he never he didn't comment on it because it's like how can you how can you argue with somebody who's giving you an invitation to educate yourself and I wasn't saying no you're wrong that's terrible what you're saying I just simply gave him an invitation and one of the things about writing is you never know what doors it will open up. A great example is, do you know Yvonne DeVita?

Jane Jones (25:59)

No, I don't. 

Kathleen Gage (26:00)

She's been in the writing space for quite some time. She's also in the animal space. And several years ago, we rescued a dog that ended up on our property. We had no idea what kind of dog it was initially because it was in such bad shape. Turns out that it had been in a puppy mill for about 10 years, had a lot of tumors on the belly. A female was not, had not been, I can't even think of the word, but fixed. Was, had rotted out teeth, infections all over, and we thought we were going to have to put her down, took her to the vet, and they said, know, her blood work came out really good, and with some good vet care, she could live a few years and have a very, very loving life. So we decided to go ahead and do that, but the investment for her health was gonna be well over $5,000. So I decided to do a crowdfunding and I wrote a whole story about, we called her Delaney from Dumpster to Diva and wrote a really nice story about her put it up on a crowdfunding well Yvonne she saw this and she reached out to me and I had no intention of this doing anything but raising money for Delaney well she said would you come and speak at this conference there's 600 people we'd like you to come and speak about digital marketing I said well the animal space is not my space at that time it wasn't she goes but you know about digital marketing and that's what we need that one opportunity from one post that I put on a crowdfunding page and I told the story about Delaney that one article turned into just incredible incredible opportunity speaking engagements writing engagements I mean it just it was bigger than I could have ever planned and so when I first wrote the story I had no intention of it going anywhere and it opened up a lot of a lot of opportunity.

Jane Jones (27:53)

And the opportunities, automatically, people are gonna think, that's money, that's recognition, that's whatever. But for me, what goes in on my head is it's more about opportunities for change, connection, communication with people, educating people, helping people understand that you said earlier that for you, the vegan community is largely misunderstood and quite rightly, so, but to go out there and communicate to people. And one of the things that you said was that the interaction, your writing, how has your writing, sounds crazy, but the totality of it, or can you find a thread somewhere where the writing has come through, and it is influenced how you communicate with people like that fellow on the Facebook page.

Kathleen Gage (28:53)

Yes, and I want to take a step back on the whole money issue of people saying, it's about money. Yes, it is. Because with money, we can do more of what we're here to do. For example, we have a small self-funded sanctuary. We have horses, we have chickens, we have a rooster, we have dogs, we've had goats, we've had ferrets, and those are all rescues. All of those have required vet care. All of those have required feed, and that requires money. So my, if you will, my guilty pleasure is taking care of my animals, and we're talking a substantial amount of money. And so the more successful my writing is, my business is, my speaking is, the better I can take care of these animals, and I can donate to causes I believe in. I, you know, I really I feel that's an area, especially for women, that we've been told, you shouldn't focus on money. We should, we should, and it shouldn't be our primary driver, but we shouldn't hesitate to ask for what we feel we're worth. so a lot of that goes into worth. So, with the totality of my writing, I would say the, I know I'm a very good writer. I do know that because I've been doing it for decades. I also know that I can be pretty snarky in my writing if I don't step back. And so sometimes, actually most times what I'll do is when I'm writing something that is gonna be a heated topic, whether it's about the animal abuse, factory farming, the environment, about human trafficking, whatever it may be, business even, making money in business. What I'll do is I'll step back and I will maybe give it 24 hours, and then I'll go back and read it. And sometimes with my wife, Karen, I'll read it to her, and I'll say, how does this sound? And she'll go, you know, you might want to rethink this area. And so it helps to have a sounding board and to...  One of the things I had a spiritual teacher teach me many years ago is, what's your motive? Whenever you're doing something, what's the motive behind it? If you're going to write an article about the injustices of, let's say, the political system right now, and tariffs, we'll use that as an example. If you're to write about that, what's the motive for writing it? Is it to attack one person, or is it to really bring light to a situation that needs to have more information brought to it?

Jane Jones (31:17)

So, this conversation is not so much about your writing experience and handwriting, and this, and then those are all part of it, but there's a greater, a wider, a broader, deeper focus for you in your life that writing is an intrinsic part of it. And there's multiple parts and money being one of them, because I do appreciate you making that point it's a part of your life, it's a part of this greater thing that you're doing and so for women who are either writing and to encourage that part of them to be part of the bigger whole or women who are not writing at all and to just start bringing it in as a piece of what you do.

Kathleen Gage (32:06)

You know, I would say, sorry, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Well, one of the things I would encourage people to do is just start by getting a three-ring binder or a notepad. And you know, you can go to the local grocery store and pick one up for a few dollars and just set that by your bedside table or your favorite chair. And as you have thoughts, just write those down and just start with that process. Do it in in small degrees rather than saying I'm gonna write you know ten books in the next year start with I'm gonna write. Ten minutes for today that's all I'm gonna do is right for ten minutes and then that will grow into whatever it's going to grow into, because I think a lot of times what we do is we try to have success without the sacrifice there is sacrifice that needs to be made to have an outcome.

And it doesn't have to be, you know, when you say sacrifice, it sounds like a bad thing. Not necessarily. It's like, okay, for example, I am very focused on my health. And for me, being healthy means that I eat in a certain way. I exercise, I drink a lot of water, you know, all the things that I do. Well, that's a sacrifice in some ways because I don't eat the cakes and the donuts and the, you know, the sweets and all that. And people go, how can you do that? And it's like, well, I look at the outcome I'm getting, and that I have a better quality of life as a result of it. It's the same with your writing. If you truly want to write, just sit down. I remember with somebody who was very accomplished as a writer, said, well, how do you write so many books? And they said, “You just sit down, and you write.” And different people have different styles. Like, there are some very successful authors that they schedule a time that that is their writing time. And no matter what they're writing. Other people have to be inspired. And if we wait to be inspired, chances are we're not going to do whatever it is that needs to be done. So, you're not going to always be motivated. You're not going to always be inspired. But do you have a message? Is there something that you want to say, whether it be through writing novels, whether it be through writing fiction stories, nonfiction, it doesn't really matter. Your thoughts, get them out of your brain and out of your heart and put them on paper. And you will be amazed at some of what will come up as a result of that.

Jane Jones (34:23)

And some of those things that you want to write down, the things that you want to say, those could be about topics of the world. It could just simply say, be that I'd like to express some gratitude. just remember when I met a person at the grocery store and he starts telling me about something and he just says, and I just want to write about him. so it doesn't necessarily have to be for the wider world, but just for one's own personal experiences.

Just like your message of hope book to come back to that one, because I particularly love it that a whole idea that it's just it's a it's a first it's a expression of your own experience. And then, and then at some point, whether it started out as a gift for his parents, his family, I don't know, but or did it did it.

Kathleen Gage (35:15)

It did, it actually did a thought just occurred to me with what you said about writing about the the gentleman at the grocery store there are stories everywhere every single day if we look for the stories they're there it could be you know an impromptu conversation with a stranger and you just had the most profound experience of having that conversation but one way to start writing is to sit down and physically write thank you cards, not on your computer, not an email, but get a pack of thank you cards and think of three people a day that you really appreciate. They've done something kind for you. They did you a favor or just that they're in your life, and just write them a thank you. And I remember hearing that on a podcast, and I actually sat down and wrote my sister a nice card. I just said, I just want you to know how much I appreciate you. All the things that you've brought to my life, and she and I were there to be caretakers for my mom and my dad, and I got to see her in a whole different light. She had just a beautiful, beautiful woman. And so I wrote down my thoughts and I hand wrote it and I dropped it in the mail. She called me, and she was crying. She goes, I just can't tell you how much that meant. And so you never know how you're writing even something as simple, which simple doesn't mean that it's insignificant, something as simple as a card and just saying thank you, appreciate who you are, and being specific about why you appreciate somebody instead of like great job, well great job at what? And so that could be a process where you say for 30 days I'm going to do this exercise, and then you move it into journaling, and there's so many different ways or maybe a social media post where you say okay, I'm gonna write 100 words on a Facebook post and it's gonna be something about X, whatever X may be. And you commit to that every single day for 30 days. Your life will change because all of a sudden, you're taking it from your head and you're bringing it out for somebody to see and possibly to judge.

Jane Jones (37:22)

Yeah, yes. And right because writing does change people's lives.

Kathleen Gage (37:29)

Absolutely. And I couldn't imagine I couldn't if the ability to write were taken from me, that would be one of the most devastating things I could imagine because it is what I do. There is not a day that goes by that I don't write.

Jane Jones (37:46)

Yeah, amazing. And there's lots of different kinds of writing, and I really appreciate that. there's a couple of demographics here the business owner, somebody that is not using writing in their business very much. A piece of advice or two pieces of advice that you think that would be useful for them.

Kathleen Gage (38:04)

Yes, do it. That would be it. You know, and it's so interesting because I used to work with a more general market. Now, by choice, I work with people who are identified as ethical vegans or plant-based eaters, and I help them to grow their businesses. And that is by choice. But the essence of what I teach can apply to virtually any industry in any small business. But I would say get over yourself because a lot of times it's ego and ego can be either low self-esteem or really arrogant and it's basically I heard this years ago it's called etching God out and if you just get into a space of realizing somebody needs to read this some or somebody needs to write this and you might be that person who needs to write this and you never know where it's going to land you never know when you could literally save somebody's life with what you say. mean, I'm sure that many people have had the, well, I don't know, but I've had the experience where I would write something and somebody, years ago when I finally decided that I was gonna quit hiding out about having a wife, you we've been together 36 years, so it's not, you know, a passing phase. And I decided to actually write something to my community about this and... I had a lot of people who got off my list as a result of it. It was like, I can't listen to you anymore. And yet there were other people who privately wrote me, and they said, “Thank you for sharing this. I have a son who's gay, have a daughter who's gay, have a, my mother is.” And, and it was, it opened up opportunities to have conversations that I never in my wildest dreams thought that I would do. And I was able to help somebody through just sharing my own experience, strength, and hope.

Jane Jones (39:53)

That's hugely helpful. And in terms of business, just do it. And I really appreciate what you said about getting over yourself. Because we think that we, well, I'll say about me, is that I'll be afraid of something, and I'll be, you know, whatever, and I'm ashamed of something, or I'm bothered by it. Just knock it off.

Kathleen Gage (40:15)

Knock it off.

Jane Jones (40:17)

Because you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing. How many more?

Kathleen Gage (40:22)

You know, and it's also knowing who you're writing for because it's like, I know that I'm writing for the people that are already committed to the lifestyle that I've chosen, which is being vegan, or those who are exploring it. And they know that something's out of alignment in their life. And maybe something I write will be that little door that opens that takes them on an exploration of getting more information. Or could it be about, you know, I'm gonna be 72 in a couple of months, and I pride myself in my health. I write about being an older woman and being healthy. And maybe that's gonna help another woman who is looking at her life, saying, I know there's gotta be more and maybe she'll get out and take that walk because I wrote an article about the morning walk that I took. You never know where it's gonna land, but as far as business, look at where you want your business to go, who you want to impact and why you're even doing what you're doing and then just look at you could do blog posts you could do articles you could there's so many opportunities to it years ago there weren't the are at the opportunities there are today today we can pretty much right around ticket because we have so many ways to put our information out there

Jane Jones (41:41)

Excellent. Thank you very much for that. Now, for the woman who is not a business person, she has a different experience of life and doesn't do any writing. What would your recommendation, your support for that, be?

Kathleen Gage (42:02)

Reframed that question if you will, because I'm not sure that. Okay, yeah.

Jane Jones (42:07)

So for the woman who is not writing and she doesn't know that there's a, she kind of has an idea. Everybody says you've got to write a book and there's maybe some value, but she really doesn't know that there's a value or she's hiding from, if she's truthful, she's hiding that there's a value or hiding from the change or simply just doesn't know and just think, this is, that's not going to change my life.

Kathleen Gage (42:33)

Okay, first of all, far as thinking that they have to write a book, maybe not. Not everybody needs to write a book. It could be that maybe the writing, she's so afraid that somebody's gonna find her writing. So what I would recommend is write something and then shred it. Then just go through the process of getting your thoughts on paper. And if you're concerned that somebody might find it for whatever reason, go ahead and destroy it you could burn it you can shred it you can you can do you can get rid of it but at least you went through the process and really looking at what the benefit to not writing is for you what what what is it serving you to not write and then what is it going to serve to write uh... because again not everybody should write a book it's a a lot of people think the writing the book is the easy part that's the hard part, that's actually the easy part. The hard part is getting the book in people's hands. So, is that why you're writing a book? You like my book Speak Out? I want that to be in people's hands because it teaches people how to use speaking as a way to grow a business, have a mission, have a movement. My book Power Up for Profits, that was all about how to use digital marketing to grow a business. So, I would say that not everybody needs to, but you probably want to look at why you would want to, because it's a healing process. It's definitely, in 12-step programs, they always include writing in the process, and it makes a difference.

Jane Jones (44:10)

Yes, yeah. And I know there's some psychotherapists or psychiatrists that use that in their work. Yeah, thank you. All right. Well, thank you, Kathleen, for your time and sharing everything with us. And I'd love to be able to pick back up this whole idea about poetry, and journaling, and that process at a later date when we have some time. Thank you very much. We appreciate

Kathleen Gage (44:30)

Sounds great, Jane.

My pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you so much.

Jane Jones (44:36)

Bye now.