E074_Why Personality Matters: Building Intentional Leadership and Safer Teams

In this episode, we explore how understanding personality is the key to unlocking intentional leadership and more meaningful interactions.

Join us for an insightful conversation with Lewis Senior, Co-founder and CEO of Equilibria and creator of the E-Colours tool, as we examine the power of personality diversity and its influence on leadership and team performance.

Discover how leaders can tap into the unique strengths and potential limiters of different personalities to make more conscious, deliberate decisions that drive success. Leaders can create a more inclusive, connected, and high-performing team culture by embracing personality diversity.

Lewis shares real-world examples of how intentional leadership, rooted in personality awareness, has transformed communication and safety in high-risk industries - and beyond.

Whether you're a leader seeking to elevate your approach or someone looking to live with greater purpose, this episode offers practical insights to help you lead with personality-driven intent.

Ready to discover your E-Colours? Click here

Thanks for listening!

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This episode was produced under Safety Collaborations Limited and now continues as part of Karin Ovari Limited. While we are not currently releasing new episodes, the entire library remains active, and the topics covered are just as relevant today as when they were first recorded.

To learn more about my current work in leadership and communication, visit karinovari.com and the leadership community, The Supervisors Hub.

Connect with us on LinkedIn:  Karin Ovari, Nuala Gage,

If you enjoyed this episode, please help us spread the word and leave a review on your preferred podcast player. 
 
 Stay Safe, Stay Well
The Safety Collaborators

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:09

Welcome to. In Conversation with the Safety Collaborators, I am Karen and I am Nuala. Whether you're a safety professional, a leader or an individual committed to making a difference we invite you to join the discussion on creating a culture of safety and care, enabling your team and leaders to design a safer and more productive and collaborative world.

Speaker 2 0:36

In today's episode, we're excited to welcome Louis, Senior co-founder and CEO of Equilibria, a global leader in personality diversity and intentional leadership. Lewis co-created eColors, a tool used worldwide and our personality diversity tool of choice to help individuals and teams improve communication, reduce errors and enhance performance by understanding personality diversity. His passion is helping people live and lead with conscious intent, leveraging their strengths and managing potential limiters. With Equilibria, Lewis has impacted over a million people, empowering them to embrace diversity and live intentionally, both personally and professionally. Stay tuned for an insightful conversation on how understanding ourselves and others can transform leadership and team performance. Lewis, it is wonderful to have you joining Karen and I today.

Speaker 1 1:34

Welcome.

Speaker 3 1:35

Thank you and really looking forward to our discussion, and it's actually come at a very good time because what you were just describing I actually saw play out last week in Dubai and I think it's a great moment to share some of those learnings.

Speaker 2 1:50

Absolutely wonderful. Before we kick into that, I'm going to ask you, tell us a bit about yourself, but also about your journey, of how you got to where you are today today.

Speaker 3 2:10

Okay, so I started on oil rigs in 1975 and was astounded to see how many times people were actually getting hurt, maimed and, unfortunately, killed for reasons that I could not get my couldn't get my head around it. I saw lots of procedures brought in over the years. I was very close to Piper Alpha when it blew up in the 1980s and all the safety management systems that you know sprouted from there, but still people continued to get themselves into situations that probably could have been avoided and I did not understand what was missing. And so if, rolling on to early 2000s, I was actually working as HSE manager for a large drilling contractor, Transocean, and we had a rig working in Nigeria for Chevron and unfortunately there was a fatality there one year in 2022.

Speaker 3 2:58

And I went out as the HSE manager to try and understand what we'd missed and, to cut a long story short, working with the crew one night I was digging into you know what drives them, what motivates them, what are their strengths in those days, what we used to call their improvement opportunities, which we now call potential limiters, and one gentleman, a guy called Kevin Bartow. He said why don't you ask us how we can get hurt relative to our personality. We'd understood a little bit about personality before, but not much. And when the first person answered saying my e-color what we now call e-colors are predominantly yellow, blue I can get hurt. Jumping into help, that switched a massive light bulb on for me and I suddenly realized that we'd actually missed the whole point around. You can have all the procedures in place, you can have all of the physical equipment in place, but if you're not actually addressing the personality, you're going to miss something. I went back to Transocean and said look, I think there's something we're missing here. I think there's more we could be doing. And they said well, you think about it, because we're a drilling contractor, we're not psychologists, but you just keep working on it. So literally a couple of years later we'd actually decided four of us, who were all with transocean, decided to leave and start our own company.

Speaker 3 4:15

And while we were setting everything up, there was a really disastrous moment. In the same rig, actually in nigeria, gentleman got his fingers cut off one night in the mast. They decided to fly him in to town to get worked on in late in the evening and unfortunately the helicopter crashed. Pilot died, the co-pilot died, the guy who got hurt died and the guy who was looking after him died and I went back to Nigeria to work through the issues they were having. Chevron did a phenomenal job in shutting the rig down and refusing to let the rig go back to work until they could prove they could work incident free. And during that time the vice president said to me lewis, I know you're starting your own company, why don't you start it now and help us sort this issue out? And we did, and I'm always thankful for the people involved in that. And here we are today, 20 odd years later. I mean that that really was the start.

Speaker 2 5:14

It was around trying to help people understand how they could get hurt and how to manage their own propensities isn't it just amazing how we have those light bulb moments, sadly often through a tragedy of some sort where you go. How do we make this not be repeated? But how a profound question ask me how I can get hurt has just created so much momentum in enabling us to understand ourselves and others.

Speaker 3 5:46

To this day. It is totally humbling to see where we've come from. Originally, we had one little plastic card, but we asked a lot of people how they said they could get hurt and realized pretty quickly that, whichever way you look at it, either fortunately or unfortunately, it's quite predictable. And so, once we've gathered enough data, we started to realize there was a lot more things we could be looking at.

Speaker 3 6:10

In 2008, 2009, we started looking at what makes it difficult for people to exercise stock work authority, which, again in the oil and gas business any high-risk industry has always been a major challenge. People couldn't understand why, you know, people were stopping the job when something wasn't right, and again keeps coming back to personality. Then we looked at why if people do or don't follow procedures, and it's just gone on and on from there. So continual learning process, and I'm pleased to say that what's grown significantly is our data lake. So I think we probably have, I would say probably the largest data lake in the world of questions that people would like to know the answer to relative to their personality, and that's something that I get up every excited about that every day and for those listening, I can see it on his face absolutely.

Speaker 3 7:02

I'll tell you why I'm smiling because I just got off a coaching call with somebody I hadn't actually seen for a few years and then met him up in Angola a couple of weeks ago and listening to him talk about the impact that the e-collars has had not only at work but with his family and in fact with one of his daughters, who's very much the same personality as him and I'll talk a little bit about later about the impact that this has in education. But it really is an absolute pleasure to do what we do, and there's no other way to describe it.

Speaker 1 7:32

Fantastic. So my introduction to e-colors was also around that time. I was working also on a trans-ocean rig off the coast of Nigeria for a different operator and that was when I was first introduced to it all those years ago. So I was out there as a safety coach and trainer. We didn't actually all call ourselves coaches back then, but that's essentially what we were doing and it was really interesting and up to this point in time I had already been familiar with personality type programs, so it wasn't like something completely brand new to me and I just always thought it was so good to allow people that space to get a little bit of an understanding about themselves that we don't always get. Or if we do get it, it's a bit too complicated, and I've always been a fan of tools that their simplicity belies their complexity, and this is one of those tools. So it was quite memorable and most people sort of got an understanding of what it was. I mean, we weren't implementing it. That had already been implemented and then, of course, as we were doing some coaching and some training and workshops and things, it became part of the conversation regardless. So it's always been there for a very long time and over the years, as I've moved from countries and roles and wherever, because I mean I started in Australia with all of this and now I live in Scotland via the African continent sort of thing, and through that and this is what I was sharing earlier I have still some of those early booklets and cards that you guys had created and I loved them so much that I've actually carried them with me for well, nearly 20 years actually, across all those continents.

Speaker 1 9:17

So you already mentioned a little bit about these cards. But this particular card, how did that one come about? It's got a slider. So let me describe this it's a pocket-sized card and it has the different how I can get hurt and how do we communicate per color type, if you wish, and you can slide this card up and down to read what it is for you and what it is for others, which I think is also such an important part of the whole conversation. It's not just about me, it's actually about we, it's about us.

Speaker 3 9:51

Yeah, very much so. So it's always funny because what Karen is holding is a slide rule and I actually found some in a drawer a few weeks ago and I was running a session for a group of engineers, probably average age, about 21 to 23, and I said I'm going to give you a present, I'm going to give you a slide rule. And they said what's a slide rule?

Speaker 1 10:12

I was about to say isn't there an app for that?

Speaker 3 10:15

yeah, exactly, and we did turn it into an app in the end, but yeah, but actually the way it was developed was I was actually sent down to abhijan um the last couple of years. I worked for Transocean in the late 90s, early 2000s. They had me coaching some of the managers around the world and a very, very wonderful human being called Alok Jha.

Speaker 1 10:36

I know him.

Speaker 3 10:37

You know Alok.

Speaker 1 10:38

I do know.

Global Impact of Personality Awareness

Speaker 3 10:38

Alok. He was the manager down in Abidjan and I always went down to spend some time with him and we were talking about where did he need the most help and, being a highly intelligent, very, very good engineer, he said well, my challenge is, I need to get a better understanding of how to lead the people. And he was leading probably about 200 or 300 people between the two rigs there or the rig there was leading probably about two or three hundred people between the two rigs there or the rig there. And so I said, well, let's, let's have a walk by the river that down there in in abidjan and let's talk it through. And as we're walking along, I said you know, really the best way to for you to understand the people is let's go out to the rig and let's spend some time going through this process of asking the crews a series of questions. Well, you'll get to learn more about them.

Speaker 3 11:27

We got back into his office and he opened the drawer and he had the largest selection of slide rules I'd ever seen in my life. I mean, he had slide rules for everything. So I said I look, I got an idea. When you get all the data that we will pick up when we go out to the rig. Will you make me a slide rule that is around all the things that you see and what you've got in your hand there, around how to develop people, how to interact with them, how to communicate, what to do, what not to do, how to influence them to become even better leaders, et cetera.

Speaker 3 12:03

And I went back to Abhijan about six weeks later and he presented me with this homemade slide rule and what you got in your hand was the, the end result there and and at the end of the day, it's like a lot of our technology, the principles and the knowledge has very much survived. You know it's, it's timeless, as you well know, and that's what's been so powerful. So a lot of what we do today somebody is to be thanked along the way, because we were always willing to not only listen but absorb what people were telling us from their perspective, and that's really helped us to develop a lot of what we do today.

Speaker 1 12:42

Brilliant. I think so much of what we all do and develop comes from conversations, which is one of our favourite technologies. I'm going to use that word because I think conversation is a technology, it's a human technology, and whatever we can do to help generate and catalyse those conversations, then that's what we should be doing and that's where I think this tool personally. I think this tool really falls beautifully into that category.

Speaker 2 13:14

So there was something Lewis said earlier about helping with the questions that people want answers to. Yes, and it links so beautifully for me with conversational intelligence, which is asking questions for which you have no answers, and bringing in that curiosity. Because if we can be curious, if we can be excited about what it is that we can learn about ourselves and others through a tool like this, how can I get hurt? Why are people not stopping the job? All of those questions we can create that learning environment in a way that is impactful, empowering and unique to each person.

Speaker 3 13:54

Very, very much so. Actually, there's a thought floating through my head my mother, who passed away during COVID when she was 96 and a half years old. Up until the last year she would spend three nights a week on a suicide line helping people, you know, just before they jumped off a bridge or shot themselves. And she actually got voted listener of the year in Sydney one year. And she said said to me, the greatest gift you can give another human being is to listen to them. I coached a superintendent for a long time who said to me one day why would I ever ask a question I don't know the answer to. So so those are the two kind of extremes, if you like, and just like you're saying, we've always been believers in let's find out people's perspective from their personality, and before you know where you are, you've got a much larger bank of information that becomes very useful very much so I think we need to implement that award more often.

Speaker 2 14:56

that is phenomenal Good idea.

Speaker 1 14:59

Good idea, and I was just thinking as well. I was listening to you, I thought you know, the journey wasn't just on that one rig. For me, it was actually all up and down the west coast of Africa, from Equatorial Guinea to Angola and many other places, and it can be very life-changing for a lot of people, these conversations, in addition to the whole conversation that we have with them, of course. So I'd love to hear more of your stories and what can we learn from them?

Speaker 3 15:31

the juicy bits so well, I think. Let me start by saying one of the privileges of our role is we get to go all over the world as you do, right, totally. And what's fascinating to me I think I'm not quite sure of the number, but I know at one point we had a lot of the answers in about 29 different languages. And so you ask somebody how they can get hurt in Australia or Aberdeen or Norway or Equatorial Guinea, wherever the answer will be the same, in the same order. And that is something that completely and utterly blew my mind when we first started doing this, because I learned early on just having different flip charts around a room and asking somebody go and write up there how you could get hurt or what are your strengths, for example, first person, let's say, somebody with red, yellow goes up and writes what I'm decisive, impatient, whatever, and the next red, go well, my answers are already up there. So all of a sudden you began to see we have to do this another way. So we would actually ask people, just like we do on our sessions that you've been part of, is write your own answers down first, which is really revealing, because very quickly you pick up that oh, I'm not the only person who thinks like this. And then, all of a sudden, is this, you know, area of predictability, if you like?

Speaker 3 16:55

So, yeah, I would say that the first aha moment, really, or the big one, was around the fact that, regardless of where in the world and there are cultural differences and there are things that make how they would approach a situation a little bit differently but at the end of the day, we as human beings really can better understand ourselves, regardless of where we are. I literally spoke to somebody the other day in Angola who said why aren't you working with the United Nations? If everybody at least understood their e-colors, half the wars that are going on today probably wouldn't even be happening. And I've got to be honest, I'm 73 years old and realized that, as my friend Dave Payne says, my runway is shorter than it used to be. I would love, before I pass away, to be able to see that some country had actually said you know what? We need to look at this and really start listening to what the other people are trying to tell us. That makes sense.

Speaker 2 17:52

Completely, because one of the big conversations that Karen and I often have with people is that we aren't trying to be difficult, we're just different. And if we can understand that we are just different, then it takes away the potential for conflict because you can have a better conversation around that. And you're right. And you're right, I think, if we could get world leaders, not just organizations, to understand that, if we help people realize that it's okay to be different, we do not have to be the same. We can think differently, act differently, but from a base of understanding, and then bring it into. Well, what does this mean for us as an individual, as a family, as an organization, as a company, as a country? Yeah, lewis, how do we get into doing this more?

Impactful Conversations

Speaker 3 18:50

Well, I hope between you and a lot of other people that keep interviewing us is that somebody will go. You know what? There's something going on here and we're not paying attention to it. Now I will tell you that a few years ago we actually thanks to chevron I don't mind telling you, it was them who got us going they actually introduced us into the world of education and we started to. In fact, we, prior to covid, we actually had for about seven years we had a non-profit called e-colors in education and the reality is, when you can get a seven-year-old to understand the e-colors and, at nine, understand what we call personal intervention not on the camera, but my I'm wearing a yellow red bracelet because my e-colors are predominantly yellow red and I have a pause and play button on there and when we introduce this notion of understanding yourself and others at about seven to eight years old and personal intervention, which means you've now got a choice of reacting or responding relative to your personality, I see the difference it makes in young students of that age. And if there is somebody listening who is able to help us take this fantastic technology into education more than we have been able to, that's where the future is Because one day those people will become responsible citizens and they never, ever lose what they learned. You know you're both in the same kind of business that we are that coaching people, companies, organizations.

Speaker 3 20:19

Sometimes it's hard to measure the impact. That's the reality and it can take a long time. In a school setting they have a whole set of KPIs which are very easy to track Truancy visits to the principal or the headmaster, mistress, whatever you call it, wherever you are. Graduation rates the average graduation rate in the states is 78.2. Every school we took the e-colors into the graduation rate went up to 99 to 100 percent. Wow, bullying virtually goes away. Suicide rates go down. There's so many things that these e-colors can really impact people and, let's face it, it's a lot easier to allow the opportunity for an eight-year-old to learn this stuff that it is somebody who's gone through most of the lives of your world. I don't need this stuff because I've got to where I am and blah, blah, blah. You've heard all that before. But there is an opportunity which I'm willing every day to try and get an organization large enough to really go. We need to bring this to a greater population. That's one of my little dreams is let people see the impact it has.

Speaker 1 21:26

So my sense is that you know, using a technology like this and I'll use the word technology because you just did also it bridges quite a few nuancesotional literacy as opposed to intelligence, because I think they're two different things. So emotional literacy, conversational skills, the art of stepping back, which is, of course, as you say, pressing pause or play on what we're feeling in that moment. So I've been involved with ontological coaching, which is all about language, emotions and the body, and all three of these things. If you want to change anything, you have to change all three, and using a technology like e-colors helps to have that conversation without people, I think, feeling overwhelmed about all the other stuff. Does that make sense? That's how I sort of see it.

Speaker 3 22:18

Yeah, absolutely. As I said the other day, I was in Dubai and this is a really high-performing team today, four years ago, they were all over the place and that's why they asked us to work with them, and it's the same people. So it isn't like they've changed a whole load of people. They have changed a couple. But one of the key things is the people who really needed to change were able to take the feedback they needed to hear, but they'd never heard it in a way where they didn't just completely throw their hands up and kind of walk out and again.

Speaker 3 22:51

If that feedback had not, if there hadn't been appreciation of the people's personality, style, that would never have happened. So yeah, I fully agree with you. And look, there's a lot more to us than our personality, there's a whole character. I mean, you're familiar with our and I do call it technology actually it's because it very much is. You know, there's a lot of science into what we're doing here. Nothing is pulled out of the air. We don't guess anything. Everything, every statement that's made around the e-colors is from pure data from people of that particular e-color combination.

Speaker 3 23:24

But I do think it's interesting that I don't know of another tool, particularly in industry, that people will actually take home. And a lot of times I think what? What we over and over again in fact I saw it last week is people learn something about the e-colors. Maybe they're sure, maybe they're not sure. They take it home, suddenly realize that the whole family dynamic changes once everybody around the table understands it and then they bring it back to work even more convinced and I think that's what happened to us in Nigeria, by the way, when we developed our very first pocketbook. I will never forget it even more convinced and I think that's what happened to us in nigeria, by the way, when we've developed our very first pocketbook.

Speaker 3 24:01

I will never forget it, and they didn't have much information in those days, anywhere near what we've got today. But I remember going back onto the rig in nigeria after about three months, after we'd given all the books out, got all the crew together on the deck and I said right, everybody get, because I call them get it out of your pocketbook. It does absolutely nothing if it stays in your pocket. And I said everybody get your pocketbooks out. And they all started looking at the deck and I said please tell me you've got your pocketbook. They said, yeah, but they're on the kitchen table at home and then rattle off the name of the seven kids and what they're eating. And we suddenly realised this is what we had not thought of up till that moment.

Speaker 2 24:40

I love that. That is just phenomenal.

Speaker 1 24:45

I'm actually being exposed a little bit.

Speaker 1 24:47

I have some friends of mine locally, or a friend of mine, and she was struggling with her sons and the differences, and so I was actually she's my beautician, so I was having a facial, so I'm doing the things that we do when we have facials and she was telling me about this son's like this and this son's like that and I want them to do an assessment and the school doesn't do that anymore and I thought, oh well, maybe maybe not realizing what I was asking, to be really honest, what I was suggesting.

Speaker 1 25:20

So maybe we've got a tool, maybe this could be helpful. So I have now done this for two of the boys, but it's going to become a family affair. So this is a bit of an unusual territory for me, I have to say. But it's a great learning experience because when you're dealing with family a great learning experience because when you're dealing with family, I mean it brings a different dynamic to it. I think, like we'd say that the workplace is family, but when it's actual family, there is a little bit of a difference in there, I think. What do you think?

Speaker 3 25:51

Well, I could tell you I'm smiling because the very first time. It's funny how all these memories come flooding back. At the very first time I'd heard, other than in nigeria was actually we were running a session in houston one day and this lady came up to me the end of the session she said lewis, you have just made my day. And I said why is that? She said and her e-colors are predominantly green, yellow, and green yellow is somebody who's highly detailed, very analytical, very much a perfectionist, and then likes to share all the things she knows about that particular piece of information. And she said I want to tell you about what I've been struggling with. She said I have three daughters and two of them are exactly the same as me.

Speaker 3 26:34

I said well, you know, tell me more. She said let me invite you a mental picture of my wardrobe. Everything in the wardrobe is, by sleeve length, color season, it is perfect. And I've got two daughters who are exactly the same as me. And then she kind of looks up in the sky and says and I have this third daughter whose room looks like a bomb's gone off in it. You know, this third daughter whose room looks like a bomb's gone off in it, you know, and she said I have been judging the heck out of her until today and and so that realization that why aren't you like your sisters and myself was a huge conversation for her, and that that happens all the time yeah it's really and it's fascinating and you mentioned it.

Speaker 3 27:17

actually. There's no doubt in my mind, because I see it somewhere every day. An understanding of what we're talking about here will actually, if they won't, it might not change, but it will certainly impact people's lives. But we never, ever, ever tell people this will change your life, but it does. That's the reality and actually the more that people lean into what we're talking about, the better the outcome, as you well know.

Speaker 2 27:43

So often, Lewis, you speak about living with intention and intentionality, and I think this gives us that. And when I was first introduced to e-colors and the pause and play, that for me was just one of the most beautiful light bulb moments, because it's not about what's right or wrong or it's just about going in this moment. What do I need? Pause, give a bit of consideration, and I've used that in work, in family, in every single aspect and it really was. Pause and play for me was one of those woohoo light bulb moments.

Speaker 3 28:29

Yeah, and I will tell you, when we first came up with the idea I had not realized the impact it was going to have. And here's the thing there's many, many ways that you can discover something about your personality. You know there's multiple tools out there. But when we came up with the pause and play idea and saw the impact it was having almost immediately in different scenarios and I'll actually start with what I saw with the kids in school, because kids who are predominantly blue-green, so tend to be very thoughtful, very steady, very quiet, typically never raise their hand in class, and so we introduced the notion of pause and play to them and all of a sudden you'll see them sitting there pressing the play button and up goes the hand. Them sitting there pressing the play button and up goes the hand. So fast forward 15, 20 years. Now those people have no problem exercising stock work authority where before they wouldn't have said anything.

Speaker 3 29:27

When I started to work with ems, with emergency services groups, actually at san jacinto college, thanks to a lady called christine kern, if there's a class of 80 students, maybe 70 of them are top color blue and the very first time we ran their induction, normally in a whole day session. We don't mention pause at play until the afternoon and, trust me, the morning was really quiet. So when I realized what was going on, come to the next year, same thing again, a whole lot of students about the same percentage of top of the blue we said immediately, right at the beginning here's a wristband. This is pause and play. You'll learn more about it, but for now, just realize it's a choice that you can pause on not saying anything and press play on actually speaking up. Change the dynamic completely. Play on actually speaking up. Change the dynamic completely. All of a sudden you're in. Let's just assume for a moment that you know that you've got an equal amount of people who are top color red, yellow, green and blue. So you've got the four different personality style basic, earth, wind, fire and water. Whichever way you want to look at it, all of a sudden you've now got empowered 25% of the people who before would never speak up. So you've no idea what they're thinking if you don't know what's going on. You sit in a meeting. All those people aren't paying attention, they're not saying anything, they're not. You know, there's no movement.

Speaker 3 30:47

Basically, another side of personal intervention is when we started working with residential treatment centers. So this is recovering alcoholics between the ages of 11 and 16. Laura, my daughter and I were in a session one day with some highly intelligent kids who just got themselves in a bit of a pickle. They had been given wristbands about two weeks before we got to a break and three of the girls, 15, 16 years old, said hey, we just want to speak to you and Laura before we go on the break. And we said what's said? Hey, we just want to speak to you and Laura before we go on the break. And we said what's up? Oh, we just wanted to thank you. I said thank us for what? Oh, we were going to commit suicide last Saturday and decided to press our pause buttons, and Laura and I were talking about it the other day. This was years ago. You don't know the impact that this stuff can have now.

Speaker 2 31:37

Yeah, the impact that this stuff can have now.

Speaker 3 31:38

No, no Humbling humbling.

Speaker 2 31:40

That's intense.

Speaker 3 31:41

It is Completely.

Speaker 1 31:43

Yeah, amazing.

Speaker 3 31:45

Yeah.

Speaker 1 31:46

Amazing.

Speaker 2 31:48

Honestly, what you just said there just gave me goosebumps. If you could see my arms, everything was just standing up on end. And linking back to that, to pressing pause and play and having choice what do you think are the key ingredients for success in living intentionally?

Intentional Leadership for Better Outcomes

Speaker 3 32:08

Well, having been somebody who wasn't living intentionally for a long time, I can tell you the difference is startling. I won't go into a lot of detail, but in 2002, I was laying on the floor thinking I was dying. And I wasn't dying, I was just overcommitted to helping as many people as I could, most of whom really didn't want my help, which is a quite normal trait for a top-covered yellow. And while I was lying on the floor, I literally made four promises I would spend more time with the family, I'd become a better listener, I'd never have an argument again and I'd find a way to help people communicate. And immediately after this happened, I finished off having an operation on my throat because I had nodules there from too much public speaking. And as I was being wheeled in to the to have the operation, the doctor said now don't forget when you come out of this operation. You could not speak for 10 days, which, for a top color yellow, you know, may as well hit me over the head with a hammer and just kill me right now. But I I came out of the operation and it gave me a chance to reassess my life and I suddenly realized that there was a lot of stuff. I was doing that I wasn't being intentional, I was just reacting to things that I thought needed to happen.

Speaker 3 33:20

In a nutshell, if I boil it all down, and so I just. For example, I used to get frustrated of the amount of people that were getting hurt, frustrated when people wouldn't pick up on what we were doing. I used to get annoyed, disappointed, and I made my mind up from when I came out of there. I would never this is the key, I would never allow myself to get frustrated, annoyed, angry, disappointed, ever again. And it was a game changer. And so for a long time, every morning when I'm somewhere in the world, people book walks with me. I like to walk in the morning. So wherever I am, I let people know. You know, I'll be in this place next week. You want to walk at 5 o'clock in the morning? Here we go, and a lot of my walking and thinking partners told me the difference was amazing because all of a sudden I would stay on track, whereas before there used to be so many thoughts going through my head. So the more in a nutshell, in answer to your question the more intentional you are, the better the outcome. It's that simple. And so then the question becomes how do you maintain a level of awareness to stay intentional? And that's where pause and play comes in, and it happens every moment of every day. There's a choice to be made.

Speaker 3 34:37

And the other thing if I'm sure you're familiar with covey's circles of control, influence and concern I made my mind up never to spend, expend one single heartbeat on things I could do nothing about. So there's lots going on in the world that could drive you nuts, but I personally can't do anything about it, so I don't allow that into my brain. And that has given me, I would say, a better quality of life. And when I'm with somebody, they have 100 of my attention for the time that I'm with them, and that never used to happen. I used to be all over the place, but I don't know what happened to me. But somewhere in that 2000s period I literally only have, while I'm speaking to you, nothing else is going on through my brain other than speaking to you, wonderful human beings, and when that time is on, I've got another coach you call. My focus will be on them, and that's how I run my, my life today, and it's actually made me, I think, a lot probably better to be around to be honest with you. People will tell me.

Speaker 3 35:42

And also, as I say, I'm highly intentional about who I'm with and if people aren't interested in what we do, I don't spend a lot of time trying to convince them. They need this in their lives. Our vision is realizing potential. My daughter keeps telling me there are people who have no potential to realize, but we don't always agree on that, but I I do think that there are moments when people might not be in the mood to realize their potential. Put it that way, but it is. You can see, I've got intentional leadership while you could sitting behind me. It's a constant reminder to me that there's so much benefit in being intentional and bring intentionality to others. And if you think about again the kind of science and technology, about what we're talking about here, the understanding and appreciation of personality diversity expressed through the e-colors, helps you become a lot more intentional. That answers your question.

Speaker 2 36:38

Oh, it absolutely does. I mean it's fabulous because, with you on that one years ago, I was introduced to that concern, control, influence as well, and I made the same decision. So I don't listen to the news anymore on purpose because I can't change it, but if I listen to it I can influence my mood, my emotion, where I'm at, and being intentional, I mean I was an absolute shocker with my cell phone. If it was there, even if I was in a room with a bunch of people, I would be like, oh, what's happening out in the world? Who am I talking to? That isn't here.

Speaker 2 37:17

And when I realized just how mindless that was being and how selfish that was being and I changed that, how it has improved my relationships and my mood and my way of being. So, working with this, just from a personal perspective, I know the impact that it has had and I mean Karen, you can attest to that as well is over the years, how just understanding ourselves better and then that appreciation, I mean, do we get it right all the time? There are moments where I forget to press pause.

Speaker 1 37:51

Yeah, Then go ooh, and I have to tame my just for the audience we have. So I'm a top red, yellow. So as I say to people, I'm a little bit Jekyll and Hyde. So one minute I'm like get the hell on with it, and the next minute I'm like no, no, no, it's fine, let's have a chat Very confusing for people, including myself, so, because they're very close. So Nuala is a yellow blue and, of course, lewis, you're a yellow red and I know myself. I have to be very conscious at times about my behaviors and not well pressing pause or press pause on certain feelings and emotions and things that rise up, so that we never live in the land of regret.

Speaker 3 38:41

Yeah, well, I think that's absolutely so, so good to hear. And here's the other thing, and you just said it right we are here for such a short time on this planet. Why not make the most of it. That's my attitude these days, and and again I do want to mention before I forget, I'm really happy that we have this practitioner program now, because I see so many people.

Speaker 3 39:02

I just met somebody in dubai the other day who you know had just become a practitioner under what Mark Wilkins is doing with us. It was so exciting to see him, and his wife actually, who now have a whole different perspective on things that they may not have realized before. And so I'm really excited about what the future could look like, and we'll see how people continue to take this on. But I want to repeat what I said before I think the world is in a bit of a pickle right now, and if any of your listeners have got any way of allowing us to help others to come to a sensible way of communicating in the future, I'm all in, we are all in, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 1 39:44

I think that in we are all in, for sure, for sure. I think we're second and third, that one so right. What's the juiciest piece of nugget that we can leave people with, beyond our vision, if you like, or your vision, and we're supporting that vision. What would be the next juicy piece of nugget that we can leave with people?

Speaker 3 40:07

I'll offer you this because I just got in touch with somebody last week who I have not seen for a long time. I mean a long time and if you don't mind, I'll tell you the story because it kind of fits with everything you're talking about. But years ago I was asked to go to india and coach a rig manager who was predominantly red green, very, very task oriented and very much needed to get as much done as he could in a day and literally they'd asked me to go over there because they were worried. The guy was a bit of a workaholic and and they told me, go to the office early so you get a full picture of how this gentleman operates. So I got up about I don't know half three quarter to four in the morning, went into the office about four o'clock and there was this guy sitting there writing away. So I went over, I introduced myself. I didn't know him before. I said you know I'm going to be here all week and a little bit of next week. So what are you doing? Oh, he said I'm. I'm doing all the packs list for the helicopters to go out to the rig. I said you're the manager. What? Why are you doing? There's people who do that. That's their job. Oh well, I came in early and, yeah, all day this day, this guy work, work, work, work. I stayed all day, all evening. He was the last one out of the office.

Speaker 3 41:30

So this goes on Monday to Friday. Every day the following week we were going out to the rig. So on the Friday he said what are you doing over the weekend? I said, well, nothing, I'm just going to sit around and wait till we go. Oh no, he said come and meet my family. I said you have a family, because I it never even occurred to me that somebody can work those kind of hours, right. So I went over to their place on saturday and we spent the weekend together with his family. Absolutely fantastic, we're russian, actually. What beautiful wife, two lovely children. We had a blast.

Speaker 3 42:05

Monday morning we go out to the rig and immediately I could see and this is what he wrote to me because he literally just retired. Last week he wrote to me and was talking about this experience. So we go out to the rig and I can see, immediately I'm there to coach him how to engage with the people. He's busy looking at the handrails because if he's bent, he it can rise a little. You know nothing about interaction with people. So we spend three days on the rig.

Speaker 3 42:30

We fly into town, get onto the beach about four o'clock in the afternoon and he says to the driver, oh, take us back to the office. I said I don't want to go back to the office, I want to go to the biggest cemetery in Mumbai, in Bombay. So we taxi, drive, drive, or the driver takes us to this cemetery, open the doors with, like something out the lost ark and there's thousands and thousands of uh of graves there. And I said so what do you see? And he said is it the housekeeping? I said no, it's got nothing to do with the housekeeping. I said these all these people thought they were irreplaceable. I said, and I took him over to a gravestone and I know you know this part of the story.

Speaker 3 43:10

I said look, this is the day the person was born and this is the day the person died. The only thing you can do about it is that dash in between, and that, to me, is so important to understand. That's the bit we can work on. What does that dash in between look like for every individual for as long as we're here, because we're leaving a legacy every day, like it or not. You know that legacy doesn't start when you're my age. It starts every time you choose to interact or not interact with another human being and how you do that. So that I hope that serves as a nugget for you. But but that is my thought for the day.

Speaker 1 43:48

I actually think that's a perfect ending.

Speaker 2 43:53

It really is, because, wow, yeah, focus on the dash.

Speaker 1 43:59

That's it. Focus on the dash. And let us know how we can help you focus on the dash. There you go uh, brilliant that we really, really appreciate you coming and spend a conversation with us. It was just really delightful and I know that everybody will get a lot of value from listening to this episode, so thank you so much, my privilege, privilege and thank you for asking.

Speaker 3 44:26

It is much appreciated.

Speaker 2 44:28

Yeah, no, it's really wonderful and we will put links in. We have a fantastic page on eColors on our website with links to blogs and articles and other podcasts, and we will put a link to your LinkedIn page as well, lewis, if people would like to connect with you directly.

Speaker 3 44:45

Can I give you one quick little story before we finish?

Speaker 1 44:48

Go for it. Yes, you may. How could we stop at Top Yellow, not giving another story?

Speaker 3 44:54

Years ago, when I lived in Houston this is back in the 90s across the road from where we had the apartment was a really good dry cleaner, an Indian guy. I'll never forget him. And one day I went into the dry cleaner and Iian guy. I'll never forget it. And one day I went into it to the. To the dry clean I said look, I just want to tell you something. You have one of the best dry cleaning services I have ever seen in my life. He says I know, tell your friends and I would ask anybody listening to this tell your friends about what we're talking about here, because, again, that dash doesn't last forever.

Speaker 1 45:33

No, yeah, that'll give me something to ponder about for the day, but yes, brilliant.

Speaker 2 45:42

Lewis, it's been wonderful, thank you. Thank you very much. Take care. Thank you for joining us today. It is always lovely to have conversations that matter to learn more about creating a culture of safety and care. Please visit our website safetycollaborationscom to access our show notes, resources and and guides. Leave us a message via the message us section on the show notes page and we'll get back to you.

Speaker 1 46:11

You can also join our community on social media by following us on our LinkedIn pages Safety Collaborations Karen Avari and Noorla Gage and on our new Safety Collaborations social channels YouTube, facebook and Instagram. Our handle Safety Collaborations is much the same. Sharing is caring. Follow us on your favourite podcast platform. Leave us a five-star review would be awesome. Doing these things helps us to grow and share our collective conversations. Till next time stay safe and stay well.