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Beyond Relocation: How Dual Career Services Transform Global Mobility at Universities
•ERA Talent Project funded by the European Commission•Season 2•Episode 24
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In this episode of EURAXESS Smart Talks, we sit down with Mary Kagendo Kobia, Senior Global Mobility Consultant at the University of Copenhagen. Mary shares her decade-long experience supporting international researchers and their families as they transition to life in Denmark. From practical relocation challenges to creating a sense of belonging, Mary explains why dual career services are essential for retention, well-being, and tapping into hidden talent pools. She also offers insights into tailored career support, intercultural integration, and the evolving role of global mobility in academia.
Whether you’re a researcher planning a move, a university administrator, or simply curious about international talent strategies, this conversation is packed with actionable advice and inspiring stories.
Key Topics Covered
What are Dual Career Services? Why they matter for researchers and their families.
Retention and Well-being How supporting spouses impacts researcher satisfaction and institutional success.
Practical Support for Families From childcare and schooling to housing and tax advice.
Career Coaching and Networking Tailored support for spouses, including CV feedback and job search strategies.
Collaborations Beyond Academia Partnerships with companies, municipalities, and international networks.
Impact and Success Metrics Data on employment outcomes and growing demand for services.
Personal Stories Real-life examples of transitions and the importance of asking “What do you really want to do?”
Question Timestamps
00:02:01 – What is dual career support and why is it important?
00:03:07 – Context: University of Copenhagen’s scale and international staff.
00:04:43 – Why dual career services matter for retention and belonging.
00:06:02 – How the program started and evolved over 12+ years.
00:06:45 – How researchers and spouses can access these services.
00:08:52 – Real-life story: The importance of “being real” behind the services.
00:13:01 – Are opportunities limited to universities or also in companies?
00:14:47 – Tailored support vs. one-size-fits-all solutions.
00:21:02 – Support for families: childcare, schooling, and social services.
00:23:26 – Story: From burnout to new beginnings in Denmark.
00:25:01 – Success rates and popularity of dual career services.
00:27:01 – Short-term vs. long-term contracts: Who benefits?
00:28:01 – Closing thoughts: Why supporting families means everyone wins
DUAL CAREER RESOURCES, REPORTS, AND ARTICLES
DUAL CAREER SERVICES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF COPENHAGEN
International Staff Mobility (ISM) - https://ism.ku.dk/ International Staff Mobility (ISM) is a department within Human Resources in the University Administr
The Smart Talks Podcast Series is an EU-funded Euro Access project which provides information and assistance to researchers at any career stage. We support researchers in mobility, careers within and outside academia, innovation and entrepreneurship.
SPEAKER_01
We strive to increase scientific collaboration between Europe and the world. Hi, I'm Daria, a senior expert at EuroExcess National Contact Point in Latvia.
SPEAKER_03
And I'm Joan, a teaching and research assistant from the Faculty of Mechanical Engineering in Nish Serbia.
SPEAKER_01
And you are listening to the EuroAxxas Smart Talks podcast.
SPEAKER_00
With a background in communication, marketing, and international development from CBS and Rose Kilday University, Mary combines her global experience with a deep passion for people, inclusion, and talent development. Having grown up between Kenya and Denmark, she brings a unique intercultural perspective to her work in career coaching, mentoring, and dual career services. Hello, Mary. Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much. What a lovely introduction. Thank you. You're welcome. We tried our best. So maybe let's start. Tell us please about this opportunity that you provide for incoming researchers that is called Dual Careers and what is it about?
SPEAKER_02
Well, before I answer that question, I just want to say thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here and to talk about something I'm deeply passionate about because this thing around supporting international researchers and their families, this is something that is very, very important. You know, for me, dual career services isn't just about employment, it's about belonging. We help families understand the Danish culture, navigate practical things like school, childcare, and a lot of things. So for me, like relocation is never just about a new job or a new university working at that. It's about people, relationships, identity, and building a life in a new place. So this is what dual career services is all about. And to answer your question, what is it we do at the University of Copenhagen? I would like to provide just a bit of context so it makes more sense why we have this. The University of Copenhagen is an old university, almost 600 years old. We're 10,000 employees, and then there are about 38,000 students. We currently have 3,000 international researchers, and about 30 to 40% of them, they bring a partner or a spouse. So, in terms of the dual career services, why do we have it? Why is it important? It's important because of three reasons. In terms of retention, if the partner is unhappy and unable to continue their career here in Denmark, Copenhagen, yeah, then the family is not happy. And I think the second reason for having the dual career services, it's all about well-being and the sense of belonging. You know, when you move to a new country, it's a huge life transition. How do you get around? How do you find a job? These are the things we help with. And last but not least, a lot of these spouses, they are an untapped talent pool. They often have higher education, they're multilingual, and for this reason, you know, we also have to look as them at them as talent. I know this was a very long answer to the question, but I just wanted to provide a bit of context.
SPEAKER_00
No, that's great. And these numbers are uh enormous actually for someone from Latvia. This is uh really 3,000 researchers. This is I uh understand that it's uh really urgent uh uh dual career services to provide for them.
SPEAKER_02
Exactly. And for your information, the dual career services at the University of Copenhagen has existed for the past 12-13 years. So if you're thinking, do you do we know what we are doing? Do we have a network? Have we done you know things before? We have definitely a lot of experience in this area. And in terms of resources, I am a senior global mobility consultant working at international staff mobility. This is our this is an in-house mobility consultant group. We're about 20 consultants, and what we have specialized in is helping our researchers and their spouses, international researchers, with small things, big things, tax, immigration, pension, housing, language, childcare. So when we started ISM in 2008, there were two people employed. Today we are 20 consultants, so we have grown. And if you're thinking, how many people work with dual career services? We are actually two colleagues in my team that support the spouses, the partners to the international researchers. And I'm just providing this context because sometimes we hear, oh, you know, how did it start? And this also I think is important.
SPEAKER_03
This sounds uh very positive, like a great opportunity. And speaking of opportunities, how can researchers find uh dual career opportunities, explore them, and get in touch with you?
SPEAKER_02
That is a wonderful question. Most people they hear about our services through the university's onboarding communication. When people are hired at the University of Copenhagen, they usually get an employment contract. And in terms of the employment contract, you can actually indicate if you have a partner or a spouse, and if you would like that they are reached out to in terms of getting dual career services. So this is something that is actually integrated into the onboarding documents and so forth. We also have people who reach out to us directly because they have seen information about dual career services on our website. So it can be people who are coming. Right now I'm sitting with a faculty recruitment. They will be coming to Denmark in August 2026. But we've already started, you know, looking at the CV, looking at the cover letter, you know, providing information about the job market and things like that. So my key message is we cannot start too early, we can start too late. Um, so basically, the communication is integrated in the onboarding material. It's on our website. And since we have been conducting dual career services for the past 11, 12 years, we also have a lot of um faculties, institutes that know we exist, and international staff mobility helps a lot of internationals and their families.
SPEAKER_01
Mary, thank you very much that you already a little bit addressed my next question. But uh I wanted to ask you about how long how long or how long before in advance uh researchers should be interested in where they come, what exactly they need to prepare, be prepared for, uh, what kind of documents uh they should provide. Um what would you suggest? What would be the best timing for that?
SPEAKER_02
Absolutely, and I really like your question because what you're talking about is the needs of the people who reach out to us. We meet a lot of people who have different needs, and I'd like to be specific and give examples. A while ago, I had an American spouse and I had been communicating with her, having online meetings, you know, explaining what is our dual career services about. We had this pre-coaching pre-meetings, I think three months in advance. When she came to Denmark, the first thing she did was just grab my arm and then she was squeezing my arm. Then she said to me, Mary, you're real. Then I asked her, Yeah, yeah, I'm real. I know I'm real. And then she had to explain to me, well, you know, holding my arm really tight, the reason for why I'm saying you're real is because my partner and I, we have been at so many universities, so many institutions, prestigious places. On their website, they say they have dual career services, but behind the scenes, there's no one. It's just beautiful text, branding text, but there's no one. So she was holding my arm and saying, You are real. And then I had to explain to her, we are very real, and we have been doing this for you know quite a while, and we have the know-how, the experience, and we have a lot of methods to apply. So I think this story has you know a lot of different key messages. You know, the fact that the way we work, it's very handholding. As you said, it requires resources. And for your information, what we did this actually two years ago is you know, we could see there was a growing demand from partners, spouses who needed more um, you know, one-to-ones, career services, and things like that. So our team, Dual Career Services, actually expanded with two people. Before it was only me and my colleague Mark conducting this, and now we are more my my I have a lovely colleague called Kathy. She conducts a lot of one-to-ones. So this is just to showcase, you know, if you had asked me like 10 years ago, dual career services, you know, the rhetoric, the narrative around the spouse, is that something you prioritize? And it's like a lot of people would have said, yeah, yeah, it's a soft thing, yeah, yeah, whatever. But today we can see it is a hardcore thing in terms of retention. And we have quite a few cases where people they say, Well, I have an amazing contract at the University of Copenhagen, but what can you do for my partner? So this becomes leverage. So this is very important for me to also disseminate these soft things that were once soft, you know, you could not measure them and things like that. Now we can measure them, and they are vital in terms of retention, creating job satisfaction. And basically, what we can say um, you know, we at International Staff Mobility, we don't just relocate researchers, we relocate families. And when the family thrives, the researcher thrives. So we have a lot of data around this from the Eraxus reports and other um, you know, projects we have been taking part with. And in this uh podcast, you also get all the links to our reports and data around it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00
Yes, exactly. That will be posted on our social media and as well on our boss brought uh account.
SPEAKER_03
And uh getting back to how uh how you uh help, uh are the options only connected in regard to universities or uh are they also available in companies?
SPEAKER_02
Well, this is a beautiful question. How do we help? Our dual career services they're not only limited to universities. We have collaborations with companies, municipalities, local service providers, industry networks, many spouses, they actually transition into roles in the private sector. Um it can be biotech, it can be sustainable to digital transformation and design. We have like uh an alumni of spouses who reach out to us to let us know oh, our company is hiring. Do you know anyone, you know, within the spouse database, spouse network that would be interested? So it's very important for me to disseminate that we have a lot of network and collaboration with local service providers, and we also are part of an international dual career network, and this is a network that actually connects spouses with employers actively seeking international talent. This is the international dual career network, and I will make sure that you also get a link so you can explore how this network actually benefits and you know creates a lot of opportunities. These things are really on an individual level, I guess. Absolutely. And just to be honest with you, um, one thing is I don't believe in a one-size-fits-all solution. You know, instead of having a static job database, we offer tailored individual career support. What does that include? It includes one-to-one career sessions, CV and cover letter feedback, networking strategies, and introductions to relevant contacts and organizations. We conduct in average two to three career events per month. And this is something we're very, very proud of. And if you're thinking, well, Mary, you're saying you have two resources, you're conducting all of these one-to-one, and then you have all these events. How do you make work? You must have endless, you must have endless resources, and you know, so forth. Just to answer that question, what we do is we know a lot of our spouses, they are actually an untapped talent pool. A lot of them know something about something. So we actually create a platform for them to moderate, to facilitate, to talk about oh, communication. Some of these people, they are psychologists. Some of these people, they know a lot about, you know, um, PowerPoint, or they have insights into something related to recruitment. So what we also do is we also tap into the volunteers, you know, resources, know-how, and so forth. Last but not least, we have a huge network of people we know, we have collaborated with for years, who work in unions, who work in a lot of different companies. So, what we actually ask them to do, and this is like free of charge because you know, we are connected, we are friends, we ask them, would you like to do a presentation about your company? Could you explain how you use LinkedIn in the recruitment process? Could you give us some insights into, you know, when you screen, how do you use AI? So a lot of low-hanging fruits are there in terms of tapping into your network. And actually, my key message is you know, if you're about to think about starting dual career services, there are so many things you can do which are very low-key. You could look into, oh, what are the service providers doing? What are the um what is the municipality doing? Could we have a website where we just link to these services and just make sure that this information is disseminated? This is very low-key, but this is you know disseminating information about existing services. And then if you want to take it a notch up, you could start looking into in your network, in my network, who is it I know? Oh, my neighbor works in this company. Could I get my neighbor to come and talk a bit about recruitment? Wow, this is very low-key. So I'm just I think it's important to be very specific in terms of how do we use our resources, how do we use our network. And last but not least, since we have been doing this for more than a decade, we have a huge pool of people, spouses who have jobs, and we can easily draw on them and their amazing ambassadors in terms of them coming and telling their story and sharing their insights around how did I get that job in Denmark? You know, how did I pick up the beautiful Danish language? How did I survive the winter, you know, and so forth.
SPEAKER_03
All of this sounds absolutely uh amazing. I'm considering moving to Denmark now.
SPEAKER_00
Uh welcoming, maybe. Thank you. Now you are you will be recruiting everyone now with uh all these services.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but everyone is welcome. And you know, for me, it's really, really important to just disseminate, you know, this story around the dual career services. And I cannot emphasize enough when I started this work, I've been working at the university for 11 years. If someone had told me fast forward 11 years, the dual career services is gonna be really, really important in terms of retention, in terms of you know, creating a sense of belonging for the partner and so forth. I would have said I knew it, but I didn't know it would have this huge impact. And I think what we are doing and have been doing for more than a decade, this is something I'm very proud of, and I'm very proud of you know what my colleagues, my marvelous colleagues at international international staff mobility do, because we we we help with small things, big things. Oh, my cat, my dog. How do I get my cat, my dog to Denmark? This is important. Yeah, this is important, and then my partner, you know. Um, you know, so we we we deal with a lot of um you know transitions, if you can say this.
SPEAKER_03
I uh love everything you said, especially uh the part about a sense of belonging, which you also emphasized at the beginning of the interview. And in regard to this, uh a sense of belonging. Uh some researchers uh have already started their uh family leads in terms of uh social uh services and support in this area. Uh can they count on any information about kindergarten, schools, and so on?
SPEAKER_02
Absolutely. As I explained earlier, we have about 20 consultants. There's actually a colleague of mine, she's called Daughter. Daughter has specialized in the area of schooling, childcare. So any questions related to that, the daughter is the go-to person. We also have people who uh you know have very specific questions regarding you know tax pension. Then it's other colleagues who are the caseworkers who know a lot about the legal stuff and things like that. And I really like to just give you a small example regarding you know when people they move from A to B. I had a spouse from India, and she was working in finance, and she had a very senior profile in banking in Mumbai, I recall. And then when she came to Copenhagen, I asked her in her in our first one-to-one, what would you like to do? Then she just looked at me, then she said, Mary, I want to do exactly what I did in uh in India. Um, and I know you have a lot of banks, the finance sector is huge in um Copenhagen. Then I looked At her, and then I asked her, So, how many hours did you work? And then she said, Well, when things peaked, I did my 50, my 60 hours per week. Then I had to emphasize, you know, and ask her, but why do you want to work so hard in Denmark? We're known for work-life balance, you know, being this work-life balance country where we have flexibility. And then I can remember she just looked down and then she looked up. And then when I looked her in the eyes, I could detect a bit of burnt-outness. And then she said to me, you know, well, Mary, to be honest with you, I really didn't like my job. I had challenges with my boss. And to be honest with you, I would love to do something else. But when you asked me this question, I didn't know what to say. I just wanted to do a plug and play. And the reason for why I'm sharing this story is because I meet a lot of amazing talent, amazing spouses, partners. When they move from A to B to Denmark, they have an idea. I want to do a plug and play. You know, I want to do whatever I did in my previous country. And I like to challenge people on that. And most of the time, people, they they would actually like to do something else, but nobody ever asked them, what would you like to do? So for me, this thing with supporting internationals, working with global mobility, it's about turning things around, making them, you know, transitioning instead of it's a challenge, it's horrible, it's uh nasty to an opportunity. So this is something that is very vital for me in terms of a sense of belonging. For me, it's not important that the partner, the spouse gets a job. For me, it's important they get the right job. And just to go back to the spouse from India, after quite a few one-on-ones, she revealed to be honest with you, I've been dreaming of having a family. And to be honest with you, I don't want to work so hard. Then we made that happen. And she got her child in Denmark, things changed. So you have the job stuff, but you also have the stuff related to sense of belonging and you know, feeling comfortable in a new country. I hope this story resonates with you.
SPEAKER_01
Thank you very much, Mary, for uh already covering a lot. And I have a little bit more questions. Uh, first is on the statistics side, how is this uh service uh actually popular among researchers? And the other one is uh for how long do they come? For example, it's contract-based for one year, five years. Could you explain a little bit uh this uh issue?
SPEAKER_02
I really like your question because you know, when it comes to popularity and impact, my experience working in this field for more than um a decade now is I can see um there's a steady growth in demand of our dual career services every year. As I explained, um two years ago we had to have more manpower because you know we needed um, you know, there was a this there's uh increasing demand for um you know career services from spouses. And one thing I can see is that if I should come with data or percent, I would say that more than 60% of our partners who participate in our programs either secure employment, they pursue further education, or engage in meaningful professional activities within the first 12 months. So I think it's really, really important with these dual career services. And in terms of um, you know, the growing demand, we can also see um, how do you say the the the other question was more related to um uh short versus long-term contracts. Uh, what we can see is that this support is equally relevant for people who come to stay for three years. If it can be if it's a postdoc PhD, it's a brief um you know um thing. Uh but people who also extend or get um renewed their contract, this these services are beneficial. So it's both people who stay short and long term who use our services.
SPEAKER_03
Thank you, Mary, for a very smart talk on dual careers. It was most enlightening, and uh I'm sure it is going to be very useful to our listeners who are considering uh to moving to Denmark.
SPEAKER_02
Thank you so much. And if I should say something, you know, um like closing, what I would highlight is that I think it's so important to support the families to our researchers, because as I mentioned before, when you relocate, um you're relocating the entire family. And when the family thrives, the researchers they thrive. And we can see that is something that is a retention, um, and that is something that is very, very important. So if there's anyone listening out there, where whether whether you're a researcher or policymaker or part of an organization, um, I would say remember behind every talented researcher, there's often uh another talented person waiting for the right opportunity. And when um we support them, everybody wins, and uh the university wins, um, every yeah, everyone wins. So thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, Mary. Uh, and uh thank you also for joining this podcast to show that uh your access services are not uh only on the web page, but behind the webpage there are real people, and Mary is real, as we know it, right now, to help to help to uh provide necessary information and these dual career services as well. So thank you very much for uh impersonating this uh someone who is behind these uh web pages with welcoming information.
SPEAKER_02
Thank you so much, and I just want to emphasize I think the Erasus Eraxus Network is doing a brilliant job in terms of disseminating information from people who work in this area, and I'm so delighted to do collaboration with other partners in the area of dual career services. So, thank you to you, thank you to this huge network for all your hard work and the people we collaborate with in the different projects. So, a huge thanks to all of you. And thanks to you.
SPEAKER_03
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Air Access Smart Talks podcast.
SPEAKER_01
We hope that you enjoyed this episode and can't wait to share more with you next time.
SPEAKER_03
You can follow us and find more episodes on the Access Portal, our social media profiles, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
SPEAKER_01
This episode was prepared by hosts Daria Aksonova and Jovan Aranjelovic, editor Iaster Pier, and is dedicated in memorium of Professor Miroslav Trajanovic.
