EURAXESS Smart Talks
The EURAXESS Smart Talks podcast for talents is your personal guide to Research Careers, Innovation, and Entrepreneurship.
Funded by the European Union. Views and opinions expressed are, however, those of the author(s) only and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Union or European Commision. Neither the European Union nor the granting authority can be held responsible for them.
EURAXESS Smart Talks
Dual Careers, Global Mobility & Scientific Life with Prof Jessica Cauchard and Dr Michael Levant
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode of EURAXESS Smart Talks we speak with a remarkable dual-career academic couple: Dr. Michael Levant, a physical chemistry and microfluidics researcher at TotalEnergies, and Prof. Jessica Cauchard, Full Professor for Embodied Intelligent Interaction at TU Wien and a pioneer in human-drone interaction.
Together, they share their deeply personal and highly practical journey across countries, disciplines, and career systems. From navigating the “two-body problem” to balancing family, mobility, professorship hiring cultures, and industrial vs. academic pressures, this conversation offers a rare look into what it takes to build two successful research careers while living abroad.
This episode is a warm, insightful, and honest look at the human side of scientific careers.
🔑 Key Topics Covered
- Career paths & research identities
- The dual-career challenge (“two-body problem”)
Navigating academic vs. industry positions across countries. - Mobility experiences in different countries
Cultural differences in higher education, research support, and hiring systems. - TU Wien’s dual-career program
How Jessica’s professorship offer emerged and how the program supported their move. - Balancing parenthood with global career transitions
Visa concerns, childcare access, and adjusting start dates. - Industry vs. academia cultures
Confidential research, publication pressure, KPIs, and expectations. - Language learning, cultural integration & communication
What makes academic life easier in a new country. - Advice for early-career researchers on mobility
Why leaving the comfort zone accelerates growth. - Cross-disciplinarity within a dual-career household
Unexpected synergies between microfluidics, HCI, robotics, and interaction design.
⏱️ Timestamps
01:31–04:00 — Research Backgrounds
04:00–07:00 — Industry vs. Academia Pathways
10:55–13:00 — Research Support & Mentoring Cultures
13:00–16:00 — Finding two fulfilling positions, timing, relocation.
13:20–15:20 — TU Wien
15:40–17:00 — Becoming Parents While Relocating
17:00–20:00 — First Impressions of Austria
21:00–23:30 — Publish or Perish vs. Confidential R&D
24:20–26:00 — Cross-Disciplinary Inspiration at Home
29:30–31:00 — Language Skills & Adaptation
30:30–33:00 — Advice for Early-Career Researchers
33:00–35:00 — Cultural Differences in Confidence & Networking
35:00 — Closing & Credits
Hello and welcome to Eurexa Smart Talks.
SPEAKER_00The Smart Talks Podcast Series is an EU-funded EuroAxxis project which provides information and assistance to researchers at any career stage.
SPEAKER_02Eurexis supports the EU research area in its ambition to create a single borderless market for research, innovation, and technology in the EU.
SPEAKER_00We support researchers in mobility, careers within and outside academia, innovation and entrepreneurship.
SPEAKER_02We strive to increase scientific collaboration between Europe and the world. Hi, I'm Daria, a senior expert at EuroExcess National Contact Point in Latvia.
SPEAKER_00And I'm Johan, a teaching and research assistant from the Faculty of Mechanical Engineering in Nish Serbia.
SPEAKER_02And you are listening to the EuroExcess Smart Talks podcast. So our guests today are Michael Levant and Jessica Koshar. Hello.
SPEAKER_00Hello, Jessica and Michael. Could you both tell us a little about your uh research story? How uh you chose to start this um this profession, and uh can you tell us a little bit about your career path?
SPEAKER_01So uh first of all, thanks for the invitation. It's a pleasure to be here. Um so I did my uh PhD in experimental physics and uh physics of soft matter and fluid dynamics at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel. Um I chose, uh I could say that I chose uh physics because it's uh it's it's a scientific discipline about how the world around us works. And uh but uh then to become a researcher, I don't think that there was a single point in time where I made this decision. I think it's something that uh uh I had to make this decision uh multiple times after every career step. Uh I do remember that after uh uh uh the PhD, I wanted to transition to industry. Um and uh so in uh after my PhD I left to France uh to pursue a pretty unique career opportunity and also a personal journey to discover uh France, something that I always wanted to do. And uh at some point I settled down in uh a small uh town in the southwest of France. Uh and uh after one more postdoc, I uh I got a position as RD scientist and a laboratory manager in Total Energies. It's a big uh multinational energy company, it's the the biggest, uh I think it's the biggest uh French company. And uh today I'm in Vienna as part of an RD project that involves also a local robotics company, and um, I'm also a member of the RD Technology for Sci team, which consists in monitoring emerging technologies and to communicate them to the RD.
SPEAKER_00That is very interesting. Uh thank you, Michael. And uh Jessica, could you tell us a little about yourself and your story?
SPEAKER_03Sure. So I actually grew up in France, and uh in France, when you're good at school, you go and study math. So I went to study math, and then you know, in a way, computer science became an obvious step for me after mathematics. Uh, but basically, because I was good at school, I just stayed in school, and I think this is what led me, at least to my master's degree. Um, I actually moved to the UK for my master's degree, so I did my undergrad in France, and then I had the opportunity to go and study abroad, so I actually went to do the master's in the UK, and then I worked for a few years as a research assistant, and I just loved research. And I realized I needed a PhD to stay in research, so then I went to study uh for PhD, still in the UK. After this, I worked at Microsoft Research in Beijing, and then I did my postdoc in the US in New York and in San Francisco. I was at Quoneltech in Stanford, and then I got my first faculty position in Israel, so then that was like my fourth continent working on. And uh, but I don't know, it always was very obvious for me at that stage that I would just stay in research. Um and then I moved here in September, so it's still new as a full prof at TUV.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, but based on your story, which do you prefer, travel or research?
SPEAKER_03No, no, you can mix both and you can do field works, which gets you to travel.
SPEAKER_00Very interesting story as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, regarding this uh huge, I would say, amount of mobility from uh country to country, uh what are the what would you say, what are the challenges uh that usually occur? Is it some cultural thing or it's uh regarding language, learning like language or how everything is um uh managed or operated in another country, like accustoming to this uh systematic change? What would you say? What are the the most I mean challenging things that uh you encounter when you move? Because uh Michael and Jessica, you both have had uh a lot of mobilities, uh experience, and um maybe you can share some also common practices, how to overcome them.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I think the the challenges which we uh again we uh as you said, we both had um international, we moved a lot uh internationally, so then the the challenges are always the same. It's uh some of the biggest challenges are uh to settle in a new place, uh to learn a new language, uh new culture, and uh creating a new environment for ourselves. Uh so uh these are the main challenges.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I I think in terms of culture, it really also depends from what country you're moving to, what country. So, for example, uh in Austria I find a lot of similarities to my life in France, for example. But when I moved to China, it's like very often I had no idea what was going on around me. And it took me, I was there for six months, I think, and so still things I I just did not comprehend after six months, you know. I probably would need years to fully comprehend because the culture is so different, and so there's everything to relearn when I feel here there's a lot more, you know. I think within Europe we have a lot more similarities in the cultures in general. So culture is one aspect, but there's also the culture of the place, there's a culture of the country. So that always takes a little bit of time to also determine you know, some even some of these things at work. It's like, is it the culture of TU Vienn? Is it the culture of you know Vienna of Austria, or you know, uh there's a lot of subcultures as well. Um, but I think one thing that's always challenging for me, because the language at the end of the day was English, once your English is good enough. I mean, I can tell you when I moved to the UK, my English was not that good. It took me a while. I had a was always making jokes in class, and everybody would laugh. And it took me a whole year to realize he was actually funny. I could barely follow the class. Um but you know, once once you're good in English, and I think English is a working language in many places, you can really go by with a language. Um, but one thing that I think always takes time is just making new friends and having you know a new place where you feel comfortable, where you have people to hang out with, and and I think that's harder when you're a bit older because when you're a student, you meet new students in your new in your program, and so everybody is new and everybody is making friends, and and I think that always takes a little bit more time, especially now, no?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think the and uh maybe a little bit about support system. Uh, we had uh recently uh a lot of different interviews with the researchers from US who switched uh uh to Europe and then went back. Some of them stayed, some of them went back. But uh what they also told us um it was about support. I mean, legal issues are solved by legal department uh or some administrative things are solved by administrative departments, and in Europe you already like a little bit uh the uh main part of the orchestra is you, and you are dealing with all these things together, so it's a little bit different support. Maybe you can like uh at least um uh tell us what is it in in Israel and what is it in you in US that you experienced by yourself?
SPEAKER_03In terms of support system?
SPEAKER_02Yes. Is it really so so different?
SPEAKER_03Oh, it is, I think it is very different. So uh it really depends also what type of support we're talking about. So, for example, now we have a young baby, and so you know, family support would be great to have, and we don't have it because they live in France and in Israel, so they're far away. And so, like the other day, we're supposed to have this podcast, and our baby woke up sick, and in that case, we have no one to look after him at the last minute, and so we have to take care of him. So, this type of support system um is definitely very important, but I can't tell you about my prior experience because we didn't have a baby before.
SPEAKER_02It was much easier, I would say.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's different, it's different, different challenges. Yeah, but um maybe uh about research, uh I can I can tell you more about the the research aspect. So I found that in the big US universities you have a lot of support for students, for postdocs, for young faculty on everything, how to give a presentation, how to introduce yourself, how to go on the job market, how to how to give a good scientific talk, how to draw good images on your talks and all sorts of training. And this is something that I've really found out of all the countries I've lived in was really specific to US universities. Um in Israel we had a lot of support writing grants, for example, and we were very successful with it. But I think because we had so much support, and so for example, even with ERCs, like Israel is very successful in getting ERCs, but uh each university in Israel has a person dedicated to helping the researchers in writing their ERCs. And when here in Vienna we have some support, but we don't have a dedicated person, for example, to help us write an ERC. So I think there are very specific research support, at least from a you know a researcher's perspective, uh career perspective, that uh there were definitely more of that support uh in the US and in Israel than what I'm seeing so far here.
SPEAKER_00And uh talking about Vienna, Austria, uh how did you find out about the dual careers and why did you choose uh Austria?
SPEAKER_01So um yeah, so actually this kind of uh brings us to one important challenge that we so far we mostly mentioned the challenges that are not unique for a couple, it's uh challenges that uh unique for edit are common to every person that is going to uh moving to a new country. But when you move as a couple, I think that the main challenge is indeed to find fulfilling, pursuing fulfilling careers for both of us, and um what we call the two-body problem. And uh yeah, so well, when we met, uh I was in France, I had a permanent position in France. Jessica uh was uh in Israel, was working in Israel, and um yeah, so we it was clear for both of us that uh we would we will have to move if we want to to be together, we'll have to move.
SPEAKER_03We didn't know how it's like when we got married, like tomorrow is our anniversary, but we had congratulations. We had no idea how we would make it work and where we would make it work, but we just knew it had to work out, and and I think this is this was obvious to us, like we just didn't know how, but the vision was there. Um but really one of the difficulty was um finding a professorship in France was really not obvious as well, because I think in France, when you want to re-enter the academic system earlier in your career, it's feasible when you want to enter like later in your career, like as a full prof, it was much harder. And so we knew we wanted to find a place together, but we hadn't even started looking. Like we didn't know yet. And then at some point, actually, TU Veen approached me because they had an opening for a full prof position in my field, and someone was retiring and they were looking for someone to take over. And they have this program to encourage women in computer science. I do think they have it for other engineering fields as well. And what they do is they make they try to make sure they have enough female applicants, at least to increase the pipeline when they have to make a decision. And so they have experts, uh, external experts that help them uh get a list of names, and my name appeared on that list. I have no idea how because I wasn't yet looking for a position. But someone put my name on that list, and so we thought, why not? So I just applied and we thought we'll see what happened, and then I got the job. And it was a hard-to-refuse offer. Um, I had a very, very good offer from TU, and they mentioned that they had a dual career program and that they would help us in that process. And uh and so yeah, so when we accepted, we we didn't know how so we knew that would be the direction, but we didn't know how we would make it work yet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I think the uh well, we we didn't know much about Austria, we didn't know much about Vienna when uh this opportunity came up. So in a way it was uh some sort of reverse engineering, maybe because once the decisions, the professional uh opportunity for uh Jessica came up, uh then we uh we started looking in detail into this place, and uh and uh then we just uh re started realizing that it takes a lot of boxes for uh uh for for all of us, not just both of us, but uh also for uh it's a great place to uh to raise a child and a great place uh culturally.
SPEAKER_03So basically, when I interviewed, I wasn't pregnant, but by the time the offer, it took so long that I was very pregnant. I couldn't talk more with that pregnant. Um, by the time we accepted the offer. And and and actually that was a thing. In my offer, they they offered us a spot at the kindergarten. And again, because it's our first kid, and we had no idea, we're like, okay, thank you. And later we realized, oh my gosh, you know, luckily they did. That would have been really, really hard. We actually delayed our start date by a year. Um, so the idea was that you know, first I was just about to give birth and go on maternity leave, and I had some commitment in terms of uh finishing my teaching in my previous university. So we wanted to get this done, and then we thought you know, a year would be a good amount of time for Michael to find a solution to also come to Vienna. But but maybe one thing to add is I actually never been to Austria before I came to interview, and most European countries, I think. And somehow Austria had never been, and then we just came for the interview, and we spent, I think, the weekend before the interview just to see a bit the city. But we knew it was supposed to be a beautiful place, and you know, and Austria had been voted like one of the best countries to live in in the world, and so we were aware of it, but we really had no idea. So we loved it. I think we were we really liked everything we saw, and also the people at TU seemed really nice and really friendly, and uh that also made it easy.
SPEAKER_01And we've been uh in touch with uh also the dual career center, which uh so at least in the beginning they uh they uh they introduced uh we started the process where they introduced me to uh to two people in relevant uh fields, and uh it kind of helped to build a local professional network. And and then just at some point uh an opportunity came up, uh opened up with uh with my company, and uh so so we we stopped at uh the process at this point, uh even though the the network and the contacts that uh that I acquired during this uh part of the process, it's still uh it's still very relevant to what I'm doing today. I would just like to add that when we uh so eventually also I think uh geographically Austria was in good position because our centers of uh of life are uh between Israel and France, and Austria in a way it's uh it's geographically just in the middle. Um yeah, this is something that we kind of justified already after making the decision.
SPEAKER_02So uh can you uh like um tell us about a little bit about the time frames? So how much time did it uh take to really move?
SPEAKER_03So depends when we between when we start the count. Yeah, so between when I accepted the offer and we moved, so I delayed my intake by a year, so that was like a year, and then my I think I moved in toward the end of August to start in September with uh, and our baby was starting the kindergarten at exactly age one because he was born and he started um first of September as well, and then you managed to move November, right? In November last year, yes, and so we were not like uh exactly in the same place, and uh yeah, and then it took like a few months, I think, to feel a bit more settled. And I think we're getting there now.
SPEAKER_02Good, and uh uh tell me please about the the field. So you haven't uh Jessica moved uh to academia, uh so you are within academia right now, and uh Michael, do I understand correctly? You are in in industry, yes. Oh, okay. So but you're still conducting your research, and the research field didn't change. Or there are nuances.
SPEAKER_01And uh so it's let's say it's more common maybe to to broaden your field of research uh in uh in industry, maybe uh so yeah, so it it remained uh very like coarse uh term, very coarsely, it's uh it remained the same, but uh it uh did go through through some modifications, the exact topic. Actually, it's uh it's um maybe because at some point uh I know that uh we were discussing what would be our uh uh let's say uh tips or if we have something to say. So one one of the things is also to maybe from my perspective, it's uh uh it would be also not uh not to stay with the same field, uh like the same topic of research. Uh uh just uh it it all goes back to leaving the comfort zone. So to leave the comfort zone also scientifically, uh like to to to not to be afraid to broaden uh the the the the research domain, the research uh topics. Yeah, so that that's that's uh something that I uh I was uh the the that's something that I was uh I was doing. So yes, to to to to answer your question, the the overall discipline it remained uh the same. Uh but uh within this the topics uh changed.
SPEAKER_02But this is interesting because uh for me uh and I'm um from social science, sorry. So for me, uh computer science uh sounds like a very something super applicable to industry and physics that is super basic science that is applicable to university. And you have like completely thank you, changed my point of view. So it's absolutely different uh disciplines that can be integrated in industry and uh in university, which is of course logical, uh logical because uh university uh should know uh computer science and IT uh related uh subjects are very popular right now uh among students, etc. But um how is it uh uh do you who from you encounters uh more pressure about uh publish or perish? Uh Michael or Jessica? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I I I think me because also a lot of what they do is not public domain, right?
SPEAKER_01I I I think that the in in general the KP KPIs, I don't know if uh the the the deliverables uh in industry and academia are different. So yes, so publication in certain places publication could be uh could be uh an important metric, but uh uh but in in it's true that uh a lot of these topics are uh are are confidential, a lot of uh research uh results uh are disclosed only internally, and uh yeah, so it it cannot be uh this publication in uh external journal is is not uh uh it cannot be really a metric. Although uh I did work in uh in joint research uh group with the academic institution, and so we we were publishing.
SPEAKER_02Oh good. So here's index is still increasing. I mean, doesn't matter whether you are punished for not publishing or not.
SPEAKER_01More progressively, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Good, good. Um tell us please on a personal note, do you uh do you share some like uh news from your scientific fields and how is it uh uh endurable uh by both of you uh uh hearing something not from your field?
SPEAKER_03It's actually quite interesting because I feel like we both learned about each other's world, and so they are like now. I hear sometimes you know, some someone talk about something. I'm like, oh, this is related to what Michael does. And so, you know, it's like there's keywords and things like I don't understand the whole thing, but I do have some understanding now of the area, and so it's really interesting, and I think we we do that also with our own hobbies and things like this, that we learn from one another, but definitely with research, or we actually use each other a lot as sounding boards, you know, sometimes when we're writing something or thinking about something. I have uh one piece of work now that I'm going to present that's about trying to include some physics principles. I was trying to go back to my old classes of physics a while ago, and telling Michael, okay, is that Newton in physics? Oh, yes, it is. I go I have like advice at home, which is great. Um, no, it's nice because I think we're also starting to see how maybe we could integrate with a lot of creativity some of our fields. Uh there was a paper also the other day from someone from my field where they're you were using microfluidics to look at new interfaces, and this is what Michel um is expert on. So this is you know, it is nice to be able to link a bit uh our oh my gosh, this it sounds like real cross-disciplinarity.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and whenever uh and for my side, whenever I hear something about automation or uh robotics, it's uh I come to the expert also.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, sounds uh very easy, but uh, I guess it's not so so relatively simple as it sounds, but uh uh yeah, very very engaging to understand how each uh field works and uh how the differences maybe could be implemented in other fields for the benefit of it. So this is definitely a very a very nice example, and um about uh maybe a little bit about how settling in, because it's not only kindergarten, it's also something that is more fulfilling for us, uh friends, um communication. Uh out of the uh we had a uh actually we had an interview with uh Chinese researchers, and uh sometimes you are very much in your information bubble because you you do not get simply learn Chinese and uh talk uh uh uh about like the uh distinct uh things, for example, everyday life and excited uh etc. Because uh that comes with um another effort to understand how everything works out here, etc. But uh maybe in Europe it's much more simpler, but still, maybe language uh barriers uh do you experience something like that, or you are fluent in in German uh already? And uh yeah, and maybe a little bit about networking activities, uh uh like how how easy or hard it is to find friends in in new place.
SPEAKER_03I I think we've been very lucky with friends here because we like we've met so many nice people and so many welcoming people. We're actually happily surprised in many ways. Also, our colleagues are really wonderful people, like we're very lucky, I think, in the environment that uh we're in. So, in that end, I think we already have like friends and people that we can call for help for anything, so that's pretty great.
SPEAKER_01And kindergarten, it helps uh creating also the parents of the other kids.
SPEAKER_03It's also a very unique place because so this is uh the kindergarten of the university, and it's interesting because basically all the parents are either professors or at the working at the UN or one of the local embassies, and so it's a very privileged environment in so many ways, and lots of really lovely people there, and so so that's been really nice. Um, in terms of language, I did German in high school, and somehow it's still there, it was very deep in my brain. Um it doesn't save me for everything, but it's actually I I don't feel completely lost, like uh Michael has been taking lessons as well for a while. Yes, um, so we still I should be taking lessons soon.
SPEAKER_01Um I think it'll uh yeah, I think it's uh it's a matter of time. It's a matter of time. It's a matter of time, but also a matter of uh being immersed in uh a German-speaking uh uh environment. Uh I mean everyone here speaks English, uh which is uh of course it makes life easy, but it also makes it too easy sometimes because it also uh kind of it doesn't force you to stimulate you to to to acquire this uh language skills, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, so what one of the uh one of the things that we uh we say is that I uh I managed to learn French in uh to a good level uh within uh perfect French. One of the reasons was that uh I mean I mean English was not really an option. Uh uh I mean it was it was less uh less of an option uh uh uh for me than uh than for example uh today in Vienna.
SPEAKER_02Uh regarding languages, uh how many do you know?
SPEAKER_03Depends how you count.
SPEAKER_01So I uh as I as I said uh in the in the beginning, uh so I uh I was born in Ukraine in what used to be Soviet Union, so I speak Russian. Um and uh I grew up in Israel, so I speak Hebrew and then English and uh French. I think that's the correct order. And uh next and maybe next time we speak it will be also German added to the list.
SPEAKER_03And uh I don't know, I would I speak like a lot of languages poorly. I would say English, French, and Spanish, fluent, Hebrew, not too bad. Um, and then I speak very, very poor Chinese, but it allowed me to go by. And I speak a lot of other languages very poorly, but I can survive in lots of different environments through that.
SPEAKER_02There is such a such statement in Russian, I speak with vocabulary, it uh it means that you do not understand anything like basic words, hello and bye, something like that. Yeah, Jovan.
SPEAKER_00And based on your story and all the languages you know, it's abundantly clear that you had a big part of your careers uh in different countries, that you are, in a sense, an athlon of uh uh dual careers and mobility. What would be your advice to early career researchers and researchers in general for mobility? Any tips and tricks that you would like to share with them?
SPEAKER_03I think they should go on mobility. To me, you know, there's all these discussions whether people should go or not, or they have to go. In any case, like you learn a new culture, even a new culture of doing research, a new way of thinking. I think it's super important that people have to go somewhere else before they can even come back. If that's what they want to do, but I I really think you learn so much about yourself and about others, and you become open-minded. I think it's essential to a research career. And you know, even now when we're talking about the process for hiring new professors, this is one of the considerations that we have that you know, new professors should have gone abroad at some point you know in their research career so far, otherwise they probably don't have you know enough maturity to be able to take on a position.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so mobility is one of the assessment of uh the um uh your like um uh self-assessment for researchers, for example. Uh good. Maybe Michael, uh uh you agree or you have any anything else to say?
SPEAKER_01No, I uh definitely I agree with that. It's uh I mean it's such an enriching experience uh to to live in a different country, to uh to discover new culture and uh that's uh with all the challenges involved. Uh professionally, it would be uh yes, not to be afraid to change to step out of your comfort zone and to to uh to learn a new field. Um maybe not entirely new, but uh uh just broaden the expertise and uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02What about soft skills? Uh right now there is a high, I would say it they have a lot of impact on uh when you're describing them on your CV. What do you say about this uh soft skills networking and uh presentations and uh also self-presenting to others, uh something like that? Do you think that this is viable, this is uh significant to acquire?
SPEAKER_03I think it's essential, but you know, I think regardless of mobility, I think this is absolutely essential. In a way, you know, you were talking earlier about the publisher parish, and you know, it's very hard sometimes to explain why you are more qualified than a person who studied as much as you did. You know, it's it's the metrics are very unclear in a way, especially in academia. And so you have to find a way to show how you're different or what else you can offer. And I think all of this only comes through the soft skills, because the bottom line is you know, people will come as qualified as you are and as trained as you are. So if you just look at the technical abilities, there's a lot of people who have the exact same technical abilities, and it's really the soft skills that are gonna, you know, make you be apart from that. And uh I think universities are increasingly working on you know, giving this training out to their students, but also some of it it's things you're gonna learn by yourself, just you know, and I think networking it's about you know stepping outside of your comfort zone, like Mikhail said, and just go and talk to people, you know, and and just say hi or go to the different events and and be able to you know express what you're working on. And and and it's funny because it seems very obvious, but actually, and here again I find a big difference between European and US students. Like often US students have really learned over the years to really present themselves, and they like even young students are very like confident and assured, and they just come and they talk. And and and European students very often we just teach them that you know they have to do better, they're not good enough. And and so it's really hard for them to actually you know step out of this and be like confident about their work. And so here you have a big cultural difference, but it also means that we need to train our students better to be confident and present their work and you know and be able to go and meet people and and show what they can do.
SPEAKER_02So thank you for this wonderful, really wonderful interview. Thank you very much for having us.
SPEAKER_03Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for listening to this episode of the Your Access Smart Talks Podcast.
SPEAKER_02We hope that you enjoyed this episode and can't wait to share more with you next time.
SPEAKER_00You can follow us and find more episodes on Deer Access Portal, our social media profiles, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
SPEAKER_02This episode was prepared by hosts Dani Aksanov and Jovan Arangelovich, editor Ister Pier, and is dedicated in memoriam of Professor Miroslav Trajanovich.
