My pain in the ass.
Along with his wife, my saviors.
I love them both.
He currently works in a cubicle but his passion is and always has been cooking.
We sat down and talked about all these things:
Breaking a bone as an adult
Keeping up with the next guy
His infamous shorts
Being married for thirty years
Reacting to his son coming out
Deep sea fishing
So put on your chill and come listen in.
Come join me on IG: michaelvieyraphotography
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Welcome to courage under the stars with Michael Vieyra. That's me, I am Michael Vieyra. Here I speak off the cuff with people that I find interesting, where you're going to sit in a darkened room and just allowing you to eavesdrop. I tell my guests, no politics, no religion, but otherwise, I don't care what we talk about as long as it comes from the heart. I hope even just a small part of it resonates with you. Some of it will, some of it won't. And that's okay. But I'm just glad you're here. I really do love all of you. And thanks for coming. Let's get this thing started here. There's a story that I've never told you. And I'm not sure if you'll how you'll see it. But you remember when you got Sucker Punched behind the centerfield baseball diamond? Sure. And you got a huge black, I think you might have even gotten to the hospital. So not too long after that, or was I was maybe 13. At most. I had a baseball game, you know, a week or two later. And I went to the snack stand before the game started. And, and I saw the guy that hit you. And I was all prepared. I was like, what? I'm going to take this guy right now, blah, blah, blah. And I think if I had to be honest with myself, I think I chickened out. He was out of high school. I was 13. And I was afraid so I didn't do anything. All right. They ever tell you that? I don't think so. I don't remember it anyways, would you? You say it's all right now and I believe you but at the time, would you have been like, what why didn't you do anything? No, I wouldn't have expected you to do anything. It was kind of my own comeuppance for being stupid with the guy and, and he hit me and I was like you said it was a sucker punch. But, you know, I was pushing his buttons. Bottom line is he avoided me for like two months. Word was he was afraid I was gonna tear him up. And so he just didn't come come around as often. So I'm surprised you saw him at the ballpark? Because he didn't come around any of the usual places for a long time. That is surprising. But I guess not really surprising. He wasn't a big guy by any means. But because of that he was very Napoleonic. You know. He was yeah, he was pretty muscular, though. Yeah. But, but no. Again, I knew it was my own fault. So I'm irritated as I was when it happened. I wasn't like I didn't swear vengeance on that. Sure. Had you ever been hurt? Otherwise, like broken bones or anything? I don't recall. Geez, my know, you know, restraints, restraints, you know, a sling or something like that, you know, for the pulled muscles and stuff, but I never broke anything. I've never broken anything until I was when I was about six years ago. And when I was I was on a boat. Little fishing boat. We were docked. We weren't we weren't out we're just having drinks on the boat. Whatever. Sure. Just partying. Yeah, not even party. It was just real casual. Like really not here now. And as I said, we were up the captain see, you know, a pie. So we were coming down the ladder to probably go refill our drinks probably. And coming down and I slipped and slipped on a run. And you know, it's one of those things that happens in slow motion. And it's like, well, if I tried to stop myself from falling down, I'm going to put my leg through the long runs and snap it off. So I better just ride this thing all the way down and hope for a soft landing. And you know, 300 pounds. I don't think you ever get a soft landing. So you know, I broke my tibia and I had to stay off it for a long time and, and Gosh, darn it if that didn't age me 10 years. I was doing pretty good up until that point. What do you mean in the fact that you had to take the layoff or the bone itself? The whole big picture of it Mike the Uh, because of my size, the doctor say you got the full cast and everything, but you can't walk on it because you'll put too much weight on it. And, you know, it's it's fractured, and it'll split of you. So you got literally stay off it for six weeks. I think it turned into like nine weeks. Yeah. And then. And with that happening, my all my muscles, especially my legs, you know the app. How do you say atrophy? Yep. And so this large body of mine that has been supported by my, my legs and my legs would power me through anything. And now there is no muscle there at all. And, you know, I just don't have the range I used to have. Well, and you've been feeling it? Because you seem to be doing okay until recently. But you've been feeling it all these years. Yeah, yeah, it's just been. It's just, every time I think I'm taking two steps forward, and then I feel like I gotta take a step backwards. Sometimes it feels like somebody hit me in my thigh with a baseball bat. Just Damn. So that's surprising to me. Because one of the things I admire about you is, you are a big guy. And I think you were being sweet with a 300 pounds, I think you're probably bigger than that. I am now at the time I was 300. Gotcha. But you you make being a big guy look easy. Meaning you don't seem encumbered by it. You do all the normal things, and you get around and look at that hustle on that guy. Sure. So how much of that is accurate? And how much of it is just you try not to look like you're a big overweight guy? Well, sure, that's part of it. I don't want to ever look like that big heavy sloth guy that we all know. Yeah. You know, just can't get up can do anything for himself. Yeah. And he's talking about me. And we're not using names here. I understood. So. But yeah, I always prided myself that I could dress myself, well, I can, you know, do anything anybody else is doing. I can, you know, ride my bike with the kids or run around a park and all of that good stuff. And, boy, in the last six years, I've really lost a lot of those things. You couldn't get on a bike today if you wanted to. Um, well, I couldn't because I've put so much weight on that. bike isn't bike not comfortable? Not comfortable. And it's, I don't know that it would hold me at the tires, you know? Sure. I guess I had my ride my bike when I was at 300 pounds, it would, you know, it was a tough deal with the tires. And so now I mean, now I'm pushing 353 60. So yeah. But you know, it is what it is. I tried to stay active. You know, I live in the moment you know, something's happening. I'll never turn something down. But the flipside is, the next day, I'm going to pay for it, because I'm going to be exhausted. I like that, though. You know, you do keep trying to know, you're going to Disneyland pretty soon with your with your work. And I've told you point blank, or do you think you're gonna kill yourself just walking around? But I know who you are. And you're like, No, I can do it. And it's like, I want to say no, you can't. But it's like, I know, at the end of the day, you will. But as you said, the next day, you're gonna pay for it. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's easy, but you don't want to be the guy to sit out or miss something or whatever. You know, the other day, we had a work softball game. And I was dying to be in this thing. Yeah, I would love to have been in it. And but I thought, you know, my son's getting married in two weeks, do I really want take a chance of, you know, hurting my leg worse. So I'm at a cast or I need a crutch or something. Right? You know, so I sat on the bench the whole time. And I had fun. I was part of the team and everybody cheering him on and whatnot, but you do have to know your limitations. That's true. Sure. You know, when you're 15 years old, 20 years old, you're indestructible right? Nothing good. Nothing can stop you. You don't listen to your adults, your seniors, your parents. You don't you know? Yeah, it might be true for you guys. It's not true for me. And shit. I apologize but shit. I'm here I am pushing 60 years old. I got an email the other day from some guy I went to school with. And every now and then I'd hear from it was no big deal. But when I realized that email was, he wants me to be on the team to put together the 40 year anniversary 40 year anniversary, I've been out of school for 40 years. What is that is, you know, and that whole thing just kind of came to fruition for me about a month ago when I became a grandfather. And this is like, I'm not old enough to be a grandfather. Yeah. I barely have any gray hair. Right? All guys sit on the porch, right? I think I hear that's a common cry from a lot of people is like, I'm not old enough, blah, blah, blah. But, but now that we're older, it really hits you. Because I see it. It's like you're not a grandfather. No way. And then one thing I've told you before, I know I often when I see people that were our teen idols, if you will, and now they're either dying or just look old. And I'm like, Holy shit, what do we look like? If they look like they're dying and look that way? Well, you know, I mean, along with everybody else, you know, make fun of Mick Jagger out there. And you know, he's was that rocking it out before we were born. He's, he's sold his soul. He did some Sure. He looks amazing. But then you know, our band. You know, the guys, we grew up with Van Halen. I didn't verify this, but I heard that Sammy is going on 75 Holy cow. It's just like, what? That doesn't make sense. Yeah, the red rocker. You know that guy. But then again, you see, you see the old and David and, and you just don't know where he's coming from anymore? Well, he is odd, but he looks good. He looks healthy. God bless him. I hope he is but you know, with his little short, you know, businessman haircut and, you know, wearing a vest instead of, you know, Rainbow pants. I thought he looked good. You mentioned earlier that you know how to dress and you had all I ever see you. Where's the black shorts? Walking shorts? That's true. That's true. It's what is it's my comfort level. All right. And I've been there black for purpose, you know, you know, I buy? I don't know if I drip today's lunch on my pants. And you know, no one's gonna notice it. And if I'm working in the kitchen and are working outside and I bumped into something, you know, I'm not gonna get a grease stain. You know, I, you got it all planned out. That's it. It's the perfect thing. You're gonna wear your, your formal dress shorts to your son's wedding. God if I if I could, I would trust me. I think everybody would expect it. Nobody would bat an eye, except for my wife. And I think she's the only one that says something that I'm gonna listen to. I know for me. You know, I'm a big boy. I'm pushing 250. And I don't know if I'm content with that, or resolve to it. But I guess my question to you is, is that where are you? Do you like, Yeah, I'm a big guy, but who cares? Or would you just much rather be thinner, man? Oh, without a doubt, I'd want to be a thinner person. Although, you know, I don't see myself in a size 36 pen, you know, 145 pounds, right? I can't ever remember being that guy. But, but it's not good. And it's not healthy. And the only reason I'm really this weight is, you know, diabetes and other medical issues I have. It's the medications you take for these things. Don't make it easy to lose weight. Matter of fact, they almost make it easier to put on weight. And so that's, you know, just been a constant battle with me. And there are some that you check with your doctor, there are some that to help you lose weight at the same time. It's, it's, it's as opposed side effect that it's opposed to we originally asked my doctor about it two years ago, they weren't ready to give it to me. And I don't know if they just didn't want to pay for it on their end or whatever. But but I'm in discussions right now with my, my diabetic specialist. And so I might be getting it in the next month or so. Okay, well, good. Yeah. But you're in a good frame of mind. Either way. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, I'm, I'm blessed in many ways and, and I'm happy for that. And, again, to me, it's important, whoever you are, that you dress right. And you look right. And even if I'm in shorts, I don't think there's anything wrong with being in shorts. If if They're nice and they're clean. And, and, you know you're wearing good shoes and, and a nice shirt, you know? By sure you know me and nine times out of 10 I'm going to wear black Polo. You know, cut right at hangs right. As much as I love to make fun of you about the shorts. You do look good. You don't look like slovenly fat guy. No, by any stretch. So good for you. Yeah, definitely. It's important. I don't. I don't accept that at any level. Don't want to be that guy. You have been married for over 30 years. For God's sake, don't get a ribbon. I don't know. I don't know. What do you get? It doesn't make sense how? I can see somebody being married like, yeah, we've been married. We were married for nine years, we ran our course. And now you've been married for 30 years? What? Yeah, what's the deal? How? You know, who knows how I definitely know. When I was a young man, high school, I suppose that I never saw myself being married one person forever, because just didn't seem like that was a thing that people did. You know? Yeah. Meaning they always divorced early. Sure. Everybody. I knew, you know, divorced early, you know, you know, new divorce. And our family and my grandparents were separated all the time. And, you know, divorce and friends. And just like, well, I guess you know, you do what you do until you're tired of it, and you move on. But no, Gail and I have been together. Since since we graduated school, basically. Yeah. And you were still in high school. Right? I had just graduated, and she is a school year younger than I am so. But we met, we met right after I graduated, and then we got married five years to the day afterwards. So coming up on the 28th of this month, will be 40 years together. Well, congratulations. I have a question mark. Joey, you sort of you met her just right out of high school. didn't date that much in the scheme of life? What makes you decide? Yep, this is the one for the rest of my life. You know, again, this might sound stupid or ugly, but you know, to be real. I know, it'd be the rest of my life. You know, but wait a minute, you actually thought I may get married. And man, maybe we'll get divorced in a few years. Not a few years. But you know, I wasn't looking to rush out of it or anything of that nature. I just said, you know, in my mind, nobody was married forever. Just didn't happen anymore. But it wasn't for, you know, lack of effort, you got to try and kind of want and I've never been to the point where I was like, this is old, and I'm done with it. You know, this? Yeah, we have problems or arguments. Sure. But, you know, nothing to say. That's it. I'm walking away from this right. But going into it, you thought this may not last forever. Why enter into it? If that's the case? Well, I felt as though I was looking at it like everyone else did everyone else that we had known got divorced when they got married? They were? Yeah, this is the one you know. And, but it wasn't the one obviously. So. You know, so you just go into, you know, hey, well, this looks really good. And I really, you know, I think I can make this work. If I don't, then I guess I'm divorced in 12 years, you know, but I see what you're saying. You're willing to you're willing to take the risk either way. Yeah, I was willing to take the risk and make the effort and, and not that I thought it was a risk. I thought well, this is a you know, I mean, on any other wager you make in life, you know, I thought this was my best educated decision is to stay with this girl because I think we could make a good team. Nice. And it's proven itself. I think so. I think as a as parents, we were good. You know, there's good cop, bad cop for the kids. For sure. As as people in a community I think we've been good. I'm usually the one out front, but I can't I always say I can't do anything without Gil to support me. So You know, she always helps out with everything. There's a great dynamic between the two of you, although ultimately, at the end of the day, Gail is kind of quiet. And at the same time, it's like, oh, no, she's quite loud. You guys work well together. One thing I don't like about it when somebody when a couple shows up is like, the one person talks and the other person goes and sits down on the couch. Yeah. And it's like both both you guys, it's like, oh, no, you both are showing up. Or answering the questions for somebody else or anything of that nature. No, you have to be independent people, you got to be able to show that. Otherwise, you know, I don't know. I guess that's why those people get divorced. Because that's something I would want to do. Yeah, good for you. And you guys. I mean, you go into the dying days together at this point. I gotta imagine. And that's a scary thing to you know, you think about it getting older. And it's like, Man, I don't want to, I don't want to get sick and, and tax her with all of that, you know? Sure. responsibility and duty and stuff. So. But yeah, you know, one day a time we'll get there. If she goes first. Can I move here with you? Yeah. This has been taped. Okay, we'll talk about later. Joey. Your your son came out? I don't know, eight years ago or so. And I was curious to get your thoughts on how you're dealing with it now. And, more importantly, how you dealt with it at the time? You know, gotcha. I think I've, I've dealt with it over time. As well, as anybody. You know, I there's some people are, you know, maybe even in movies or whatever, where they make it look like, Oh, we're so happy. You've told us this. And yeah, sure. Yeah, I started, you know, maybe I'm just too old school, whatever. We grew up in that environment. Right. But it wasn't, it was easy to be happy about per se, you know, because definitely, you're right. We're old school we grew up with everybody was, you know, all the bad words, you can think of homosexuality, and all of a sudden, we're expected to just go Oh, okay. It's cool. Right? Now, that's an excuse for sure. And I'm glad that my frame of mind and has changed. You know, 180 degrees, weighed 180, or 360. I think it's 180. Somewhere in there. But one of the things I like about you is I saw the struggle of what the fuck? But at the same time, it's like, okay, I can do this. And you did. But I guess, you know, the first and foremost is, I have a great relationship with both my boys. I mean, we've just done so much together. I've been a big part of their lives on purpose. I've, I've put myself into their lives as a baseball coach or scout leader or whatever, whatever activity they were doing. How can I help you make the best of this be better at it? Yeah. And, and so we've had a really good friendship, father and son relationship. So, you know, when your son comes to you, and you have nothing but the utmost respect for him and everything he does. You know, if he comes up to me with something I'm not expecting, I got to just kind of stop and step back and say, Okay, this is this is what he needs to do. And it's not about me. And so was I happy for it. No, wasn't happy for it. Could I accept it and move forward with him? Yeah, I can. And I and I needed to. There's just, if you had asked me 20 years ago, I'd say, Man, That better not happen. The fact that at that time when it did happen, it's like, Okay, I'll go down that path with you. That's what you need. Yeah, it's weird, because I feel like if you did do it more as a teenager or a 20 year old, you might have that bad reaction. But because you know, I'm now as an a man, and you know who he is. There's that, that love that just can't be tossed aside. Sure. And I am impressed. I don't know if you are impressed with yourself, but just the acceptance alone, like okay, I'm not happy with this, but I'm going to accept it in See where I go with it? By allowing yourself to do that you've ultimately got to where you are now, which is what I think is you can correct me if I'm wrong fully accepting of it. Yeah. chuckled because well, as you know, he's he's getting married here shortly. Yeah. And terrific young man who I guess, you know, in any mannerism, you know, if you want to, you want your child to meet somebody, they can have a great relationship with, you know, then this is that individual. For sure. Yeah, he's a great guy. Yeah. But we were all together. And we're talking about, like, you know, this wedding dress and blah, blah, blah, and who needs to wear what, you know, not wedding dress for them, but for Gail? And what are you going to wear? And Gail starts telling me and I said, No, no, no, no. You have to wait. With me, was it? What do you wait? I said, Well, I you know, I went online, I did all my research and gave wedding fashion and I've got a fantastic shirt picked out for you guys. And they're like, Oh, God, what? What did he do? Yeah. So, matter of fact, you're going to enjoy, you're going to enjoy this shirt when you see it. But it's again, it's nothing offensive. It's just just something that's totally hip and out of my lane. And I thought, You know what, I'm gonna make this shirt look good. Oh, man, I'm afraid. I'm afraid because I know it's going to be something weird. Not weird. There's just, it's not like going to be SpongeBob SquarePants. But it's definitely going to have that sort of luau feeling to it. Yeah. You know what it? Yeah. Okay, I'll go with that. Well, good. I'm glad I'm happy for you, dude. Because, man, you got to hold on to so many people hold on to the anger of what they can't control. And, man, it just makes your life difficult. Again, you know, they're your children and and why? Why waste time being upset about something like that? You know, yeah. Be more upset if, you know one of them was on drugs or you know, abused a partner or something of that nature. But you know, this is who you are. And you're talking about Cameron mentioned. Oh, name's Joey. Do you remember when you were? Were just starting to drive? What your customized license plate read. It's just starting to dry. Yeah, you got a custom. I had a custom plate. But that was that was my second car. That I remember. So I don't know. All right, settle down. When you had a job had money. Michael, I kid. You were you had a license plate that red? b r n 2x? L? Yes. Yes. Because you were such as a go getter. You though I'm born to excel. There you go. Now, I of course, thought it was born to extra large or you did? Okay. That being said, you had a lot of aims and goals. And you went to culinary school, and you went and did this in that. And now that we're older, I think this is a good question for both of us. But ultimately, are you content with where you ended up? I am Mike, you know, like anybody else, you know, how many? How many waiters are in LA? That wanted to be actors? Yeah. It's not that they're not good. It's not that they weren't. Right. It just didn't happen for them. And they'll tell you the same thing about a restaurant. You know, 10 guys can open a restaurant, and only four of them are going to survive. Right? Yeah. And but you got to be pretty darn lucky just to be one of those 10 guys in the first place. So, you know, I've, I've had my hand and a couple of things. And some things did better than others, for whatever reason, you know, none of them ever really made me rich, per se. But they were all rewarding. I had a great experience doing all of them. And at the end of the day, you know, here it is, all this time later. And that's like, yeah, you know what, I, I took a shot. And I did well, awesome. And at this point, you know, actually, as you know, I just started a recent job, which is totally out of my wheelhouse. But don't need to get into that other than the fact that after doing what I've been doing for 35 years, 45 years, maybe I was like, Okay, I've I've done everything. I can step away from it now and I don't need to, I don't need to challenge myself that hard anymore. I gave it a shot. And I'm at it Absolutely nothing I'm not proud of, you know, I I serve great food. I made people happy. Yeah, yeah, I'm good with all that I agree with you, you know, it's like you were I don't think I don't think you were necessarily reflecting me. But I fit that example you gave about being an actor and I didn't make it, but I was still good. But you same thing, you're a great cook. That's what you were doing pursuing. And it never took off to a level where you would think oh, yeah, he does this. But God damn you, you put in the effort and never give up. Yeah, you're still doing it. I still do it. I like it. You know, it's, it's a lot of fun. And, and I get paid a few extra bucks here and there to do it anyways. But yeah, it's more about being in the kitchen and that kind of buddy buddy system you have in there, you know, you're in there, and you're yelling and screaming and, and trying to get things done. At the end of the day you have share a drink together, shake hands and go home. You know, no, there's no anger there. It's just people working hard. And so yeah. You know, it's hard to walk away from a team like that. Yeah, something that works so well together. Yeah. I enjoy that. You. Your sense of who you are these days has changed. Not too long ago, a few years ago, I used to fondly call you first impression, Joe. Because when people would meet you, they are that Joe? He's a great guy. He's like, Oh, shit, you must have just met him as a vote, I would think. But now you have changed. And I've talked to you about this before. But something's different about you, for sure. And you're a better person. As you know, I've studied self care for many years now. And I think I'm a better different person. But I'm seeing it in you. And I'm wondering, is it am I? Is that it? Or is that true? Or have you been working on something? I think everybody tries to better themselves. But to honestly sit here and say, You know what, Michael, I, you know, I pray to God, and I cross my fingers. And I hope I'm giving you the best Joe all day long that I can. No, I don't, I don't realize I'm making a change or difference in what it was 515 years ago. But I can't speak to the fact that I've heard this from a couple of people. So it's like, maybe I was a bit of a jerk. Because I've had two or three people saying, dude, you really seem like you're in a better place. Dude, I will tell you pointedly that before, I might say, Yeah, my brother Joe. But I think I even said it recently. It was like, Yeah, my brother Joe. He's a good friend of mine. Yeah, well, you know, you and I have gone through a lot of challenges in the last few years. And I think somehow that's, you know, led us to depend on each other and appreciate each other a little bit more than we have in the past. And so it's kind of a unique, a unique thing. But you know, bottom line is we're brothers. And, you know, we found that respect for each other, which, which is cool. Because, you know, a lot of families lose that. Yeah. And I don't want to press the negative, but I never thought we would you. You are a curse, you know, and I don't want to take credit for it by any stretch. But I know when I was, when you allowed me to stay in your home, I was very often listening to self help tapes, if you will. And because I was in your, in your room, you were overhearing these, did any of that have some sort of subconscious level into your brain? You know, to me, it was white noise. But you know, people say you pick things up like that. So it is possible, but I never looked at it that way. Gotcha. Well, kudos to you. Because I will tell you, as I've already said, but I wanted to make a stronger point that Yeah, you were a fucking jerk. And now it's like who's the nice guy? I'll take it. Thank you very much here Well, I'll tell you something that made you feel better and been trying to figure out how to do it and that is get back out on the water and do some some saltwater fishing. Is love getting out there on the water and relaxing and you catch something it's a bonus. Otherwise, have another beard enjoy the afternoon. You know, that's such a great way to spend a day in the sun. Wow. So that's like a happy place for you. Oh, man. It is and I don't get there anywhere near enough. And you know, I'm not a big fan of the what they call a cattle boat right where I was just gonna ask ya That's so hard to tell you get on a boat and you might be 90 people and you might be 35. But at the same time, no, you don't have a boat. So at the same time, you don't want to go charter a boat where it's just yourself, do you? Oh, I can't. I mean, it's just cost prohibitive. Oh, gotcha. But, but if you if you could afford it, you would? Yeah, I probably would. I'm sure I would invite a handful of people, you know, hopefully, two or three guys could join me. Well, I'm just trying to strike down the point that if it is your happy place, and none of your friends could go, would you still just go by yourself? You know, cost be damned. Yeah, I probably would, although I'm a big believer in the buddy system. And that is, you know, you shouldn't ever go anywhere like that on your own. Well, you know, you're going to charter the boat. You're gonna have a captain. Oh, okay. I'm sorry, is that we're going back to where I have my own boat. No, I just mean where where you have to charter the boat. You got a crew? No friends going with you? Yeah, absolutely. I would do that in a heartbeat. Yeah. I was real fortunate once. I went on one of these big cattle boats. And I tell you, the boat could hold 99 people. There was four of us that day on the boat plus, plus a cruise over seven people on the boat that holds 99. Yeah. Holy cow. That was awesome. That's a rarity, right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And they, they had done a few trips with them. So they knew who I was. And they were going to cancel the ride. And I was gonna say and then when they saw that I was one of the people coming on board. They said, Okay, we'll go. They said first impression. Joe. Come on in. He tipped us last time, right. He's been working on himself. Let him in. Yeah, but yeah, there's time if you want to feel good about yourself and reset yourself. Yeah, day on the ocean. Can't get better than that. It's pretty great. I love the ocean. I don't know that I like fishing though. Like you do? I'm not sure. Wherever you were you got into that but do love being out on the ocean. Fishing the fight? Was a fish. First of all, you got to figure out what he wants. You know, how what are you going to put lure him in with? Right? Do you have the right bait? Do you have the right style hook? All of the things that go into that? And? And then you know, is it the right time of day? Is he hungry? Are you getting them going upstream or downstream? Then you're you got to find the hiding spots and the ocean. There's obviously a world of hiding spots. That's why it almost seems like it'd be more fun to be the captain of your own boat to do that. Yeah, sure. You You found the fish. Yeah. I don't know. That's just me. Well, it's kind of the flip side. You know, if I could do it myself, it'd be great. But the captain, he goes out on these waters every day. So he knows. He's probably got, you know, six or eight spots, or his go to spots? And nine times out of 10 He'll find you something. So and you you've been involved with the Boy Scouts of America for way too long, right? I don't say wait too long, but long enough. You You started with the kids? Of course you start with yourself. You're a boy scout Eagle Scout, right? Did you make Eagle? No, no, no, no. Did you apply? Or like and I don't remember. I think you were Cub Scout? No, at most. Yeah. But so I went into Boy Scouts, and from what I can seriously remember is there was a star Scout life Scout, Eagle Scout. And my impression was, Oh, if you get to be life Scout, then is your scout for life. Right? Forever membership. I don't need to do anything. Yeah. And but I never really had anybody explained that to me. And it explained. Certainly nobody ever explained the benefits of being an Eagle Scout. Yeah. So it was real loose and, and I and I would always say you know, in the summertime, we would go camping at Joshua Tree. And in the wintertime, we would go camping at Joshua Tree. Yes, that was our one spot that we'd go to out in the desert. That was it. I thought you're gonna see in the wintertime, our camping spot was comfort in that would have been good. But I remember when I went camping with my I don't know somebody somewhere. You were even there. And I was like a two week scenario. And we were sleeping in tents. And then one day they said, hey, if anybody wants to sleep in the apartments, we have apartments have my hands shot up so fast. Yeah, I want to sleep in the apartment. Shut up. But you still see. Joey so you were with the scouts. With your boys, you went took them through it. And the curiosity for me is now your your kids have been out of it for 10 plus years, it seems. And and you're still involved? Tell me why? Well, first of all, it might seem like the boys have been out that long, but they really haven't. Mitchell's continued to give back, even when he was in college. And Cameron, I would probably say as recent as five, six years ago, he would still be involved. And you know, of course, they were in Boy Scouts, your boy scout until you're 18. But you're in Order of the Arrow, you remain a Boy Scout until you're 21, which they both did. And then they continued to assist as adults till they're about 2425. So that being said, yeah, they weren't with the regular 1214 year old kids, though. They were with the older scouts doing their thing. But I just saw it as a way to give back to the program that gave so much to our family and for me to help the community because you know, this, obviously, these were all kids who lived in our neighborhoods. And they deserved as good a program, as that's what my son said. So it's certainly nowhere near the program I had when I was a kid, you know, and I loved the program. When I was a kid, I was thrilled to be a boy scout. And for my son's to do the things that they've done. Now, I want to make sure every kid has that chance. That's neat. Absolutely. And I've always thought, from my perspective, that there was also just like, a sense of it gives you something to do. Um, I don't know, in a good way, yeah, I get that. And, you know, that's one of the caveats I learned a long time ago was, when you want something done, ask the guy that's busiest. The guy that's busiest knows how to manage his time and to get things done. And so that I've always used that. When I was a Scouter, I would pick somebody to help me delegate whatever. But in hindsight, I realized somebody did that to me first. And then so that's, that's how that works, you know? So there was always something to do. It wasn't that I was looking for something to do it just it was there. And, and you do it because someone has to, and I'm not going to wait for someone else to step up, I'll just put my hand up and say, it's done. I've got it. So, but um, you know, some of my best friends and you've had a lot of them, they the good people that like minded people, and they're good adults and, and their kids are good. And yeah. You know, one of the things about all those friends is you guys get together every so often, I don't know, six months a year, but you do scotch and cigars in the backyard. And that's got to be a great thing for your soul. The Oh yeah. Yeah, you know. And when not only when I do it, I do it. I love it immensely, and I love the Brotherhood shared. But these guys, they're always so grateful when they come over because they just don't do this otherwise. And it's unfortunate. I don't know why people let their lives get too busy or where they you know, they tie themselves to work or whatever it is. But you know, if you can break away for a few hours and just be guys telling guy jokes doing guy stuff. Yeah, everybody needs that source. I'm afraid to ask but what's what's a good joke? Let's skip it. But good for you and good for them. Because I agree with you does. It's too easy, especially as we become adults to slip away. Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, communities now. Diversity is a good thing. It needs to continue. We need to be welcoming. But and I don't know it could be because COVID It's made it more amplified. But people are again shutting themselves off from other people. They're not being accepting have of people unlike themselves, right? And it's like, what was the feeling on people? Like, why can't you? You know, welcome everybody, how is it possible that we have this hatred or contempt for different people? It's just, you know, we're all people, whatever it is. Yeah. I agree. 100% Yeah, it's baffling. But I wanted to say that I'm very thankful to you and Gail, for taking me in when I became homeless. You know, yeah, yes. I wasn't there all the time. I did do the streets for a little while. But at the end of the day, and I know it was more Gail's push to get me into your house. Thankfully, you accepted it. And, and I'm very grateful to both of you, because I would not be in the room we're sitting in right now. My new apartment, if it weren't for you, guys, so much, I I could never imagine that it was going to take that three years that they told you upfront. Oh, yeah, there's gonna be three years in the system before we even see a court went fast. And, and it's like, wow, you know, how do they know that number? That's just ridiculous. And well, yeah, because they just keep denying you. They know they're gonna deny you for two years. Yeah. So yeah, you know, I mean, that wasn't easy. You know, there are plenty of times when we'll get agitated one way or the other, you or me, and, you know, we had to work through that. But we did, and I'm glad we did. And I'm glad that we were able to give you that support. So ya know, problem. All right. Well, big Jovi. I'm glad. Glad you're my brother. I'm glad you gave me this time. I was just telling somebody else that I was excited. I was going to be interviewing you because I think I even said this earlier that although we're close. We don't really have these in depth conversations. And so it's nice. I appreciate it. I'm glad I can hear but I thought I thought you were gonna tell me more about fight club All right, you guys. Thanks for coming out. That was awesome. We're going to be back in a couple of weeks. So hopefully you'll join us then. And if you feel so inclined, please leave a positive review on any of your, your favorite platforms. And if you didn't like us, of course, this is Xavier McGillicuddy signing out for today. It's Michael Vieyra. You knucklehead See you later