Sitting under the stars
OG video games
Free time post-divorce
COVID-stalled divorce
Processing tough decisions
Entering the dating world
Creating games for a living
Disneyland
Being loved
Join me on IG:
michaelvieyraphotography
Sitting under the stars
OG video games
Free time post-divorce
COVID-stalled divorce
Processing tough decisions
Entering the dating world
Creating games for a living
Disneyland
Being loved
Join me on IG:
michaelvieyraphotography
Welcome to courage under the stars with Michael Vieyra. That's me, I am Michael Vieyra. Here I speak off the cuff with people that I find interesting, where you're going to sit in a darkened room and just allowing you to eavesdrop. I tell my guests, no politics, no religion, but otherwise, I don't care what we talk about, as long as it comes from the heart. I hope even just a small part of it resonates with you. Some of it will, some of it won't. And that's okay. But I'm just glad you're here. I really do love all of you. And thanks for coming. Let's get this thing started. Why not just be here enjoying the fire? To enjoy fire? Do you want to ask you if you know, or recall when the last time you were sitting out underneath of stars and who you're with. And the focus was to really look up at the stars. Because I just came back from something called Electric Forest, which is a giant Music Festival, Michigan in a forest. So there was a lot of being out at night under the stars. But like a name, like people that we know. In terms of the people performing Yeah, I'm not cool enough to know them. What the 20 something sure seemed excited. I was excited for you for a second. Like, good boy. Yeah, no, that's I'm not cool enough. Right. Now, well, I actually mean, like, you know, sitting out underneath the stars going to the beach, going to the campfire, center around and talking. I think the last one that I remember was in pandemic, I finally started camping. I always felt like it was something that I would want to do. But I like actually started doing it in pandemic and so when up north to Inyo Valley and was camping up there and the stars were just bonkers. Like, you're shooting stars. That was the Milky Way. There was all of the amazing this that just made me so happy. What is it about that amazingness that that sends us why do we get so I don't know, introspective when we're sitting under the stars. I think it's the magic of knowing that there's so much else out there. So it's it does sound trite. You think what you just said is trite. I think that's deep. I think it's it's knowing like there's so much else out there. So it gives you a chance to pause and step away from the day to day what's on my grocery list. And what do I need to book and what's this thing on my to do list and it gives you a chance to step out. It's definitely a break from that. Yeah. And I think for me personally, it's a break from I don't I don't get to see that very often living in Los Angeles. Yeah, there might be some clear nights that are kind of pretty cool. But when I go out to the beach, or even better for me, Palm Springs or Joshua Tree it's like oh my god. What is this place? Yeah, I love for me it's forest. I'm definitely a forest person. And it just I literally feel it fill my heart like I grew up playing video games and I see you know, you have your hearts and your hearts get depleted. It's like going in the pool and Zelda when your hearts just go like blue blue blue. They're all full. That's that's what it is for me to go out and be in a forest. Well, I love the confirmation of how much of a nerd you are. If was there any doubt? I'd always kind of hoped for more but no. For you. All right. Well, favorite game growing up was delta. Yeah, of course. So your your old school. Yeah, well, Zelda and Mario Kart like all the super Mario's that whole that whole shebang. It's, um, I'm not a hipster. I'm not obscure, cool, cool things. Those giant things. I'm gonna ask you to that I loved two different times. Pitfall Harry, did you know it? Nope. Oh, man. That was right. There was Zelda. What do you do? piffle. Harry was essentially it was I forget. It wasn't Nintendo. It was a I think it was Atari. Yeah. And you just kind of just kind of followed it along and and jumped stuff. It was like early Mario Brothers, if you will. But then my favorite though. We moved into PlayStation two was Syphon Filter, which is just a shoot 'em up action spy thriller. It was awesome. I never had a PlayStation. I was always a Nintendo girl. So have a duck. Duck on definitely, yeah. So you have two kids, where do you go now to find that sort of retreat that piece? Well, as we were discussing earlier, I am divorced. And it has given me back so much time, because the default was always 100%. Just I will always take the kids and I will plan and do everything for the kids. And then occasionally, he would come and be like, hey, I can take them for a few hours if you need to get some work done or whatever. And now it's this, you know, prescribed thing of okay, no, this is your time. So I suddenly have so much time I remember I saw a friend of mine posted on Facebook for Mother's Day, that she got, you know, one night in a hotel, to get to, like, get her work done and take a bath and have some time. And I was like, wow, that's, that's every week for me. And it is, it's, it's such a gift, because I'm still with my kids the vast majority of the time. And so I don't, I don't feel I know, some divorced parents, I've talked to they, they really feel the lack of time with their children. But I, I feel like it's in this really good balance of like, the vast majority of my time is with my children. But then, you know, every Friday night, and every Sunday afternoon and evening, I do get time for myself. And one weekend, a month I get to myself, and it's been incredible. Like, I've gotten to go on so many trips, and so many adventures. And I just remember when I was married, you know, a friend was like, oh, yeah, like, I'd love to go skiing or whatever it was. And I was like, Man, I just I don't know when I'll be able to ever do. It really becomes more about just simply the time available. Yeah, yeah. And my, my, I don't care where you go. I just Oh, look at this. I have time to myself. Yeah, it's amazing. I love it. I love everything that I've gotten to do. And you know, that's where I got to go on all of these camping trips. Like that's, that's my kids nightmare. I want to drag them along. But like, I love hiking and camping and anything being in nature. And that is not a thing. So I could either drag them and have complaining unhappy children the entire time. Or I could take it as my time and like, fill my hearts back up. Do you think as kids that we complain like your kids? I'm sure we did. I mean, my parents were not hiking camping people either. So that wasn't there. But as a matter of fact, yeah. We used our views whenever we went camping. Oh, yeah. No, we didn't even go camping. Yeah, I don't know. My parents think my kids are harder. My brother and I were. So I'll take that as some consolation that like, it's not just me thinking this is hard. Like they also are like, yeah, no, this is your way more of like involved. And, you know, I do I think it's just parenting these days. Like it's your it's expected that you are so much more engaged and involved than it was when we were kids. It does appear that way if I'm not a parent, but I do see it that way. So you How long have you been divorced? Well, we're still officially waiting for the judge to sign the paperwork. This has been the world's slowest divorce. We we decided in February of 2020, that we should get a divorce. And one time and then you might recall in March of 2020. Everything shut down. And so we were still you know, living together. So it it has been just an incredibly slow, slow process. But in some ways, it's been frustrating, but I think in some ways, it's really been for the best in that for our kids. Like this whole thing has happened so slowly that in so many ways, like their lives have barely changed. Okay, so I I am grateful for that at least. One of the things I like when we met today Because I haven't seen you in a number of years was the light around you? So you don't even have to tell me that you're doing well, because I can see it. What do you attribute that? I think divorce has got to be tough no matter what side you're on. And but you just I mean, you seem to be have to accelerated past it in a great way. Yeah, it was really hard. I mean, I think, you know, I think going through the dark, gives you the light, like, you, if you're, if it was always just all light and easy. You wouldn't recognize it for what it is. Yeah. And so, there, there will always be times in life where you're just like, this is hard. And I think one of the, the lessons that I've been learning and working on is that sometimes it's just okay to, like, sit in that feeling for a minute. So true. I'm sad. Like, this makes me really sad. And this is really hard. And I just, you know, I joke, my therapist was like, you're kind of a robot. Thanks, therapy, right, like I am. So just like, well, logically, we can look at A, B and C. And so one thing that I've definitely been working on is, is feeling the feelings. And I think that letting myself feel the, the sad and the hard and the bad. also opens the door to feeling the light and the happy and the joy. Like it was, I mean, pandemic was hard. Like, it was so hard to, you know, like, finally decide like, Okay, now we're, we're gonna do it, we're gonna get a divorce. Like, I'm, you know, I'm making this choice. I'm taking this step to, like, open up the door to the potential of what else could be like and to make that decision. And then just essentially, like, have a giant hand come and smack it out and be like, no, no, you may not do that. Today. Yeah. Not for many, many, many months. Yeah. It was hard. Like, I've never cried so much as I did in pandemic, because there was everything, right, like, all of the things that everyone was going through, and then the personal things, and yeah, it's hard. You know, you hear somebody say, Hello, pandemic was really hard. I mean, it's like, Dude, it was hard on everybody. Yeah, yeah. And I totally understand that. And it was hard on everyone in all different ways. You know, I think all of the parents that I know, we're all like, dying, like, Oh, my God, I have to work and I have to homeschool. And I have to do all the things. And then all of my single friends were just like, I haven't seen another soul. What am I doing? And it was really hard and really different ways. But yeah, just across the board, how was it for you? I think it was a blessing for me. I don't say that lightly. And understanding what we just said her, it was hard on everybody. But as most people know, I was homeless at the time. And so I got to participate in the project room key portion of LA. So I was put up in a hotel downtown, which was beautiful, and awesome. And, um, I'll be eternally grateful for all of that. So if it hadn't been for COVID, I don't know what I would have done during that time. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, worked out pretty great. Are you the type that you had said to you? You recognize what was going on with your divorce and you cried? Are you the type that likes to address what's going on your life? Or do you find yourself kind of shoving it in your back pocket? Like with myself, do I address it with myself? Like how you deal with things? Um, I am very much like an action oriented person where I'm like, okay, so this is going on. So I recognize this, and I don't like this. So I'm going to take steps A, B, and C, in order to not have to go through this thing that I don't like anymore. And then I'm going to do these other things. Like I I'm always very busy, and I like to be busy. I can see that. Yeah. So yes, I think I did address it. But then also, as I was saying, I think one of the lessons learned was that, you know, sometimes, sometimes you don't need to stay too take steps to, to do all the things to not feel it anymore and take the things but just take the time to actually sit in it. And I think one of the big lessons that I've taken is that kind of if you if you sit with things long enough, the path forward becomes a lot more clear. Like I couldn't agree more. Yeah, like, even with the the decision to get a divorce, there was this, you know, period for quite a while before making that decision of just like, What do I do? And do I do I stay? Do I go? Like, how do I? How do I reconcile this? How do I fix it? And you know, what are all the steps and like, I just want to know, you know, I've always been someone who like, has a goal and does the steps and achieves the goal. And for the first time, it was like, I'm not sure what the goal is like, Is the goal to continue in this marriage? Or is the goal to get out of this marriage? And I really wasn't sure. And it was so hard, because without that goal, I then didn't have my steps to take to get there. And so it was a real lesson and just Okay, no, sometimes you just have to sit in the uncertainty. And if you give it enough time, it, it will become really clear. And it did become really clear. And I've never looked back like since making the decision. And I'm someone who questions everything right. But I have never looked back and been like, oh, wait, no, maybe not. I'm not sure. Like I've it's just like, Yeah, this was absolutely the right choice. And I feel sure of that. Never looked back, never looked back. It's awesome. Do you look back a lot? I think I used to excuse me on the show. I'm coughing all the time. Yeah, I used to look back back in the day. And but I've since shifted my way of thinking. And I do believe I'm a better person. And so I truly live in the moment. And I don't look back very often. Is there anything that you still look back on these days where you're like, I really don't not that carries me forward. There might be something I may be reminded of. But that'll only sit with me for a moment. Because when I realize in that moment that well, there's nothing I can do about it. So I'm going to sit where I am right now. Yeah, that makes sense. Was it I've never been married. And so it's hard enough. Breaking up with a with a girlfriend is a much more monumental decision. When you realize, oh, I've got to get a divorce. Yeah, it's huge. And I mean, I think especially having the two children that was the main thing of like, Is this hurting the children. And you know, I remember a friend was dating a man who was divorced. And he, he had a daughter. And she had never known her parents together. They got divorced when she was a really little baby. So she had never known them together. But still, that little girl. All she wanted. And what she expressed to her father all the time was like, I just want all three of us to be together, you know, and she never even knew it. And so there was definitely that fear that for my children, it would be this huge loss of the family unit. And what I kind of came around to though, was that no one there's the whole, like, if mama ain't happy, nobody's happy. Like, you can't suffer through something that is not working. Just for them. Like they'll know it and talking to friends, too, whose parents did stay together. Yeah. When they should have gotten divorced. I had that. Yeah, yeah. And talking to those adult friends who were like, Oh, God, I wish they'd gotten divorced. Like I hate being in the middle of their fights. And I hate seeing how unhappy they make each other like and just so there was that aspect of it. And then there was also the aspect of like, I want them to be able to know like, what love should look like like what a marriage should look like. And this is not it and I don't want them thinking. This is what it is. Because I don't want them to grow up and, and have that and think that this is what it should be I want them, you know, to, hopefully potentially see, you know, one or both of us in happy relationships that are working well, where there's affection and there's laughter and there's, you know, like, touch and just closeness and I want them. Everything you're saying reflects to love. And I just love that. Yeah. Like, I, my parents love each other. And they still, like, hold hands with each and I'm just like, I recognize, like, that's what a good marriage is. And I try to point it out to my kids whenever we're around them, like, you see, like, grandma had these crazy ideas. And Abby was like, yeah, absolutely. That sounds great. Like, he just supports her and all these crazy ideas. Like, that's, that's great, because he loves her, like, see, see how this works. And so I, I, it came from a place ultimately of wanting them to know, like, Yeah, this is this is what it should be. Do you feel like your parents looking at them and thinking they should be divorced? Do you think that maybe it's one of the reasons that you never did get married? Wow, that is a great question. I don't know. I don't know one way or the other. I do know that I was not happy with the way they their marriage was when it was bad. I don't like that it went back and forth for so long. I don't like that. My father was so hurt when they finally did get divorced. And then beyond that, there's really only one girl in my life that ever would have married. And you know, sometimes that either happens or it doesn't. In this case, it didn't. And so on that end, I've never felt like I've missed out even though you know, so of course. I wouldn't mind being married. But I I'm not in lack of it. It's not something you're seeking. No, no, not at all. We all love human companionship, and I don't mind that at all. But if that companionship leads to marriage, cool. But yeah, I'm not seeking a partner in that way. I get that. Are you dating? I am dating. What could you Magoo? How do you go about coming back out of the wedding out of the marriage? To deciding how you're going to date? Who do you date? How do you find them? Oh, well, it was a whole thing. Because of course, you know, I got married before there were apps. That's a whole new world. With the apps and it's so fun. Like, you know, there's there's a joke old joke that there's nothing married people love more than swiping through single people. Because it's like, I never got to do this. And now I get to do it. And it's it's really fun. Like I and it's, I think it's really great. Because you're supposed to get married, you're supposed to have kids. Like, there's all these things we're like, and I know so many people who are dating to like, find their person settle down, have kids with them. And so it's like this very loaded search, right? Like, it's high stakes. And it's very important to them. Yeah. And for me, I kind of feel like, well, I did that. And I'm so happy that I did that. Like I love my kids more than anything. You know, I don't regret the marriage like I, I, I did that I did the marriage. I did the kids like, great. And now I can just kind of date to like, date and and just take take you as a person and see how I feel about you and not like, oh, well, I don't know, are you going to be a good provider for my family? And are you going to be a good father? Are you someone I want to settle down? Yeah, kids go out. Like, I can just go out. And it's, it's a lot less. So wait, what did I miss? What are you using apps? So I was actually I have a boyfriend now. So I'm not on the app anymore. Right? But I was on the apps and they were fun. Yeah, like, I feel like so many of my friends are so sick of the apps like they just it takes so much time and work and they're just like whereas for me it it never lost its novelty. Like it was just really fun to wipe and through and but didn't you find that there were so many catfishes out there guys are putting up pictures that no I didn't. There was one guy I went on a date with and I was like, oh god, okay, your pictures were like 20 years old and he was a philosophy professor and it was literally like he just lectured me on foot. Last time, it was like, he did have an adorable dog with him. So that was probably the highlight of the day. Was he older? Yeah, he was like 20 years old. So I thought he was gonna be like, in his, you know, maybe late 40s, early 50s. And I think he was like, 65, seven year like it was. So yeah, it was just like, Okay, I should. One other thing that came out of pandemic was the FaceTime date first, which is Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah. Like, my time is super limited. So, if I can just, you know, like, I often run tests, I often work at night, but then if after I'm done working, I can like, hop on a FaceTime with someone for 20 minutes. I can't judge chemistry from a FaceTime date. But I can judge like, Are you someone I can have an easy conversation with? And do you at least somewhat look like your pictures? But isn't that so much of what chemistry is because if we have rapport and we can chat, that's so important to me. It's definitely part of it. But I will say there's there's plenty of people who you know, I love having conversations with them and everything like that, but I don't necessarily want to make out with an even if they're attractive, like there's I think chemistry is like this extra X Factor. Got it? I hear you on that. And then that's undeniable. It's a little superficial to some level, in my opinion. But I totally make sense because we want to be attracted, but at the same time, I gotta still like you when we're done making out. Yeah. Oh, definitely. No, that's, that's super bright. And I have to be able to have a conversation with you. And there have definitely been Yeah, with the dating thing where I'm like, You're just so pretty. You're so pretty. Yeah. I guess there's just not that much there. Can't do it. Have you been doing the FaceTime dating? I haven't. I've not I've because I've been in this situation I really haven't dated. But I may be putting myself out there soon. I don't know. But I think what do I stand in your little scale of like a look at my one between one and 10? Where do I stand? Now? You know what I had a friend asked me this question. And it went terribly wrong. And I'm waiting for the answer. Never again, never again, you in the audience are gonna be waiting forever. I'll tell you your answer. No, no, I want to hear from you. What it's gonna take for you to be like, Okay, I'm ready. I'm getting back on the apps. I will tell you the honest truth that we're getting there. Be at first when people would ask me this question recently. I'd be like, You know what, I'm homeless. Nobody wants to go out with me, Barbara Barbara. I have a friend who dated homeless guy. Oh, my God, you're way more on top of things than that guy was he would go off on benders for like, weeks. And it was it was madness. But anyways, so I'm just saying that, you know, that's not definitely gonna eliminate you, you know, what happens? Is it because you become you start second guessing what you have available to anyone. And in my opinion, you know, I couldn't take them anywhere. I didn't have money. To me, that's huge. I want to take you places, simpler places, just simple a dinner or a movie. You know what I'll say this, the guy I'm dating right now does not have a lot of money at all. He's a musician. Now he's a writer. Like on Friday night, he cooked me dinner at his place. And like, that's all I need. Like, I don't just do something that shows like you're putting an effort and thinking about me like you don't need to take me out to a restaurant. Like I think there's a great point to be made in that. Now that everything's coming around for me and I do have a roof over my head and and I'm feeling a little bit more purposeful with the podcast and other things I'm doing in my life. It does lead me to believe like Okay, wait a minute. You have you have yourself to offer you don't need to offer these dinners and whatnot. you exactly what you just said come on over. I'll make you I'll make you not spaghetti, but I'll make you great pasta. Like, my feet. Were killing me the other day. It's like here, let me give you a foot massage. That's a that's a key and we learned that in ninth grade. That's move 101 Yeah, well, more men need to use it. I have not gotten nearly enough off. Oh, wow. A grid foot massage. Pulp Fiction man that that argument is with me all the time because I agree. 100% Man, don't touch a woman's foot unless you're planning on doing something. So yeah, I think as long as you can offer a good foot massage. Yep. And by the way, like on a scale of one to 10 Good luck. So what was the last date you went on? Oh my god. Well, long ago, my my disabilities started kicking in trouble. probably in about 2016. So I would say 2015 was probably at God it's embarrassing to say it out loud but down 2015 Seven years remembering I do it was a you know it was it was a pretty call it dating someone I wasn't just it wasn't just a date it was dating like a girlfriend. No, but it was like, you know, we've gone out a few times when boyfriend girlfriend yet but but we're definitely hanging out. And then that just kind of ran its course but but it was fun. And we did and you know what's weird is I don't know if the point you're making but yeah, we did the simple stuff that you're talking about. I just made her dinner and she came over and did stuff. And it was simple. I think the stigma is created by myself, to be honest with you about what I had to offer. While I didn't while I wasn't working and living on disability and yeah, yeah. And I think, of course, it's about the people that you find, right? Like there, there definitely are those people who are like, well, now if you're not going to spend tons of money on me, then forget it. But then I gotta tell you, you're hitting the nail on the head. Because when you started saying all these things, I was like, oh, man, that's awesome. I love that. Because I don't think that is prevalent in the female way of thinking. Not not to say that you guys are bad, but to definitely not anybody. Nobody wants somebody who can't hold their own. Sure. Yeah, I think for me, it's about like, Well, are you chasing something? Like? Are you passionate about something? You know? Are you intelligent? Are you kind of have a good conversation with you like, these are all the things that are more important, ultimately, and if it hasn't yet manifested in a way where you're making lots of money on it, then okay, but if you're, if you're trying, that's that's what matters. You famously came up with this escape room in a box game. Sold at stores? And now you seem to it's propelled you in a bunch of other games? What's going on with that? Are you rich and famous? Or what's the deal? So I am like, the most niche famous person possible. I think within the like, escape room puzzling community. I am I'm about as famous as more than what you know what, that's a great point. Because if that's the case, why, where's your drive coming from? Because you're constantly coming up with new ideas and games. Oh, I love it. It's such a joy. It is 100% Feels like I just made up a career. And somehow now people pay me to do it. Like it's, it's bonkers to me that this is what I get to do. Because, you know, we do the tabletop games, which is super fun. And then we also get to just work on a bunch of other incredible stuff in all different formats. So like, we do film and television, you know, press and activations and stuff like that. I mentioned we just got back from this music festival that was part of that. Yeah, we had 14,000 People play our games across four days. Like, we literally literally are just some of them. No, no, the festival was like 50,000 but in terms of the people who played games, it was gratulations that's amazing. Thank you. And just the music festivals are incredibly fun because everyone's all high and happy but they they're so grateful they're just like, this is incredible. I can't believe you came up with this like thank you so much like this is why I come to this festivals for the that's awesome you know it was our our contact to hire those she posted afterwards. She was like the new headliner for the festival is the games like people were lined up in like insane the length of the line of people who are coming to play to play the games they have to pay to play the game or whatever part of their ticket it's all part of the ticket Yeah. Okay, so if I may Yeah, are you making money or do you make a living at this now? Yeah, no, they they paid us to make we weren't like charging per game but they paid us overall a flat fee to do this. Yeah. Yeah, we we are making money and it's it's funny because it's we are wildly successful in the games world. The amount of money that you make being wildly successful in the game compared to you know, we're here in LA, it's film and TV, like the amount of money that film and TV make his games like, you know, we're doing we're doing well, it's not like, Oh my God, let me buy a private island sort of well, but that's huge, but because if you're getting less than that, that means you're doing all right. I would think no, we're doing so there's two of us that run the company. And we are, you know, we both do this as our full time job. And it feels like a decent salary for our full time job is one of the games been, which has been the biggest hit. So the first one was the absolute biggest It has sold. That game alone, I think has sold over 100,000 copies. It's crazy. All in all, in the tabletop games that we've made, we've sold over 400,000 copies, and I have $20. No, okay. But yeah, like, if you figure each game, probably two to three people play it that's like over a million people who have played something that I created, which is just mind boggling. So when does this give you a sense of purpose that propels you forward? Is this like, you know, when we talk about purpose in our lives, there's such things that make us move? Is this part of that for you? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I absolutely love it. It's funny, because I don't, you know, people, and we do sit down as a business. And we're like, Okay, what direction do we want to go? And what do we want to focus on? And so much of what we're already doing, I'm like, I just love this, I want to just continue doing this, you know, make putting out more tabletop games. And we're working with a theme park right now, which is freaking cool. So, so exciting. I'd love to do more and more in that space as well. But it's really just continuing to do you know, what, what we've been doing. And it's, it's really cool to make something. You know, the goal of our games is to bring people together to give them a chance to feel smart to give them moments of discovery and accomplishment, and like laughter and joy with their friends. And so I will tell you that I am not the smartest guy. But I'm not the dumbest guy either. And I would say your games are. They're hard for me. They're They're definitely hard. I mean, they're there for people who want a challenge. Like, that's, that's definitely I think, and you know, it depends too, like the game that we just made for the music festival was a whole lot easier because we knew everyone had to appeal to the masses. Oh, yeah. Not necessarily planning to do a bunch of puzzles. So I wonder what this coin tastes like. Yeah, we had one. Now that the Cecil we just did, but another festival is a It was literally the puzzle boiled down to red plus blue like it was it was a big red plant and a big blue pant plan there. There was a plus sign. And so the answer to red plus blue is yellow. He would not be the first to think. What is it? That's purple. Damn it. So like so many people were like brown green? Like, yes. So there's times where we're like, oh, this is so easy. And then still, still just just just now? Well, it's all subjective, right? What do you think is easy? Just may not be totally. Yeah, everyone comes from there. There are different things. You said something earlier of the working with theme parks. And that made me think of, there was definitely a I don't know, two year period, where you and I and a couple of other friends were going to Disneyland all the time. That was one of my favorite things that we that I've done. Like that was one of the favorite things I've done. And I will tell you this, I don't really have communication with the other two friends anymore. And that's not a bad thing. It's just but but I think the point I'm making is, I still remember that time period at Disneyland with three of you as just an awesome period in my life. Yeah, that made me really, really happy. Like and that's exactly right. Like it brought us so much joy and so much connection to go and experience these things. Why would Disneyland be so fascinating to for full grown adults? Because it is a magical place. You get to jam out of time and everything smells good and it's clean and it's just, isn't it? Yeah, even the people cleaning up the place are clean. Yeah. And they're happy about it. Let me get that piece of gum off the sidewalk for you. Oh, thanks. It would be my pleasure. Yeah, that was the host super magical. Have you been back in a while I haven't been in so I have not been back and I lament because I feel like with my disabilities, I don't know if I can do it. I'd have to take a wheelchair. You could take a wheelchair, you get Prime Access on all the rides. I know, but I can't do the rides because of my disability. They go too fast. We could do the slower slow ride. Yeah, I do like Peter Pan. And you know, Pirates of the Caribbean is my favorite and that's just reopened or it's reopening soon. Yeah, you could totally do. So I'm not against it. And you know, I as a matter of fact, I almost called them the other day to say, hey, how much for? For me just to get in just to be in the park? I'm not going to take any rides. Can I get a discount? That'll be $190. Sir. Yeah. Okay. But do you? It's gone. I have a question for you. You had said something. Go ahead. You're talking so much about me and like what I'm driving towards and what I'm doing. And I know you're doing this podcast, which I think is super cool. And super fun. And we want to hear about what else you're driving towards. And your purpose. Oh, I love you for asking. Here's my thing. And I used to tell my, a my therapist this, and she was all for it. But I just wanted something more. But here's what it was prior to the podcast. There's not a lot I can do with my disabilities. Although, to look at me, you think what's wrong with this guy, he can do something now. It's just, my abilities are limited. I just can't do much. So as I said to her, I said, Listen, all I want to do is just keep evolving, and keep finding love sharing love. And I just want to be love to everybody. And that's all like, if I can't do anything else, that's what I want. And and as I kept saying that I was like, yeah, that's all true. But I, I feel like I need something else something physical. If I can't have it, fine. I'll just be love. And I'm good with that. But then I somehow found the podcast. And so the podcast has given me a great sense of purpose. And if the podcast goes away, I'll still be fine. I'll still be sharing my love. And that's going to be enough for me. But the podcast has definitely given me the drive that you're talking about. I love it. And so part of this festival that we just did, one of the puzzles resolved to what was the moment? And then they had to come find one of us and ask what was the moment and then we would ask them like, what was the moment that you felt strong? Or what was the moment you felt magic? So hearing you talk, I want to ask what was the moment you felt loved? It was me. And I just got choked up. That's what your question just did to me. succinctly. I was I don't think you know this, but I was suicidal. I think it was 2018. And I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't want to commit suicide, but I felt so no other choice. And then all of a sudden I saw a meme that I loved. And it just spoke to me. And and when I realized that the only way out of this was to love myself. First, that is when my world changed. And so you asked me that question. And that is the last time that I remember feeling loved and really appreciating it. Because I will tell you I'd never the guy you knew 10 years ago, he wouldn't have said oh yeah, I love myself first and Barbuda because that's just who he gooey nonsense. But now God now, I love myself first and I can live with myself for the rest of my life and be happy and it's it's a great world when you can learn to be happy and to love yourself. I love that. I love that it was you who loved you. Yeah, thank you. Stop making me cry. Isn't that the goal? Podcast? Isn't that how you win? I thought I won. Damn it. Well, I thought I won. I my score between one and 10 By the way, I'm giving myself a 6.5 I'm a realist. Okay, all right, solid. I'm never I bet it went so horribly wrong. Never again. Cuz you think I'm trying to trick you by giving me my own score? 100% Yeah, you're right. You're the Game Master. I see your strategy. All right. Well, I think I've had enough for you. All right. I think I won the podcast. So I think we're I don't know that there's a winner or loser. I gotta ask you a favor. You got to ask my boy Andrew to go ahead and take us out. Show's over. Andrew, take us out. Andrew, can you please take us out all right, you guys. Thanks for coming out. That was awesome. We're going to be back in a couple of weeks. So hopefully you'll join us then. And if you feel so inclined, please leave a positive review on any of your favorite platforms. And if you didn't like us, of course, this is Xavier McGillicuddy signing out for today. It's Michael Vieyra. You knucklehead See you later