The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee

Breaking the Silence: A Sports Broadcaster's Journey Through Male Infertility with Sam Hargreaves

• Liz Walton and Helen Zee • Season 2 • Episode 5

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Sports broadcaster Sam Hargrove shares his journey through male infertility, from receiving a devastating zero sperm diagnosis to becoming a father of two boys through IVF. His openness about the emotional impact of infertility challenges the stigma many men face, offering hope and practical wisdom for others on similar paths.

• Male infertility accounts for approximately 41-43% of fertility issues, yet many men avoid getting tested
• Sam's zero sperm diagnosis was traced to a traumatic sports injury during his teenage years
• The emotional impact of infertility can trigger feelings of inadequacy and shame in men
• Speaking openly about fertility struggles helps reduce stigma and connects people through shared experiences
• Getting tested early provides clarity and direction, preventing unnecessary relationship strain
• Fertility challenges can lead to personal growth and deeper connections between partners
• Sam now considers himself "a better man" having gone through the fertility journey
• Both partners benefit from viewing infertility as "our" challenge rather than assigning individual blame
• The Melbourne Fertility Expo on November 8, 2025 will feature conversations about fertility, including a panel with Sam

"It takes balls to talk about infertility," says sports broadcaster Sam Hargrove in this powerful, vulnerable conversation about male fertility challenges. Sam's journey begins with a gut feeling that something wasn't right when he and his partner Evie started trying for a family. Rather than waiting, he took the step many men avoid—getting tested. The devastating news came minutes before he was due on air: zero sperm.

Sam takes us through the emotional earthquake of that moment, the immediate questioning of his masculinity, and how he fought back from that dark place. With remarkable candor, he shares how a teenage sports injury likely caused his fertility issues, the intensive medical interventions that followed, and the journey that eventually led to the birth of his two sons through IVF. His story illustrates how common male fertility issues actually are—comprising at least 41% of infertility cases, though likely higher since many men refuse testing.

What makes this episode essential listening is Sam's perspective on how facing infertility transformed him. "I'm a better man now than I ever was before I found out I had zero sperm," he reflects, highlighting how challenges that initially seem devastating can become catalysts for profound personal growth. The episode also offers practical wisdom: get tested early, use available support services, and speak openly about fertility struggles to break down harmful stigma.

Whether you're facing fertility challenges yourself or simply want to understand what millions of couples experience, Sam's story offers both comfort and courage. His willingness to share helps create a world where fertility isn't wrapped in shame but discussed with the same openness as any other health concern. After all, as Sam puts it with characteristic humor, no one puts their sperm count on their resume—so why should it define anyone's worth?

Visit AustralianFertilitySummit.com.au for early bird tickets to the Melbourne Fertility Expo. Find Sam on Instagram @SamHargrove99 or listen to his Course Language golf podcast.

Liz Walton:

Welcome to the home of fertility, a space for real conversations and expert insights about fertility, healing and creating family. I'm Liz Walton.

Helen Zee:

And I'm Helen Z. We are two mums who've walked this path and are passionate about supporting you on your journey emotionally, physically and spiritually.

Liz Walton:

We talk about it all fertility treatments, holistic support, relationships, mindset and the emotional highs and lows.

Helen Zee:

Because sometimes the missing piece lies in someone else's story, in the quiet wisdom of the body or in a breakthrough that's finally made for you we are so glad you are here.

Liz Walton:

Let's dive in.

Helen Zee:

Hello, hello to all of the amazing listeners out there and welcome to the home of fertility. And what's wonderful about this is I get to speak to some of the most amazing people, and today I'm speaking to a lovely gentleman and his name is Sam Hargroves. How are you, sam?

Sam Hargreaves:

I'm really well. Thanks Liz. I appreciate you having me.

Helen Zee:

Oh, I am. I'm the one that's very appreciative, so thank you for taking the time out of your busy day to chat to me.

Helen Zee:

So let me share a bit about Sam. Now, sam, if you're Melbourne-based, you might know a lot about him and for me it was great to find him. I found him through Instagram, but he is a sports broadcaster. In fact, he is a man of loving of all sports from footy to golf to hockey, volleyball, basketball, you name it and I think he's quite passionate about it and he does a lot of broadcasting and he's a sports broadcaster commentator. He's got his own golf podcast.

Helen Zee:

From what I understand that he just told me Been in radio for 10 to 12 years and is passionate about what he does. And the reason why I found him and he popped up for me is because he's also had his own fertility journey and I'm really honored that he's happy to share this because he's a guy and he's a guy that had his own fertility journey. And when I saw him on Instagram instagram it's something that really literally made me laugh out loud with joy, with love, with just um such acknowledgement as he his one thing is it takes balls to talk about infertility. So, sam, bloody good on you, mate oh, no, it's um.

Sam Hargreaves:

Well, thank you for all of that. Um, yeah, it's. Uh, it's probably not something that gets discussed a whole lot in the world that I inhabit in terms of sport, broadcasting, professional sport and the media or just any really walk of life that men find themselves in. There are conversations that just aren't happening enough for blokes, and there's a statistic that says it's around 41% to 43% of infertility issues are male infertility issues, but I think we all know that that number is probably not accurate, given so many men just refuse to get tested. So we've got to change that. We've got to sort of take the stigma away from male infertility.

Sam Hargreaves:

And I say that knowing full well that the stigmas around women's infertility run far deeper. They've been inherently harsher for centuries when it comes to a woman's ability or difficulty in conceiving. So I'm really conscious of all of that. But when it comes to the male space, just men haven't ever wanted to really admit that the problem could be with them and the idea that, just like it is with women, that sense of if I can't conceive, then what does that mean about me? For men, the whole idea that everything you are as a man is only to be found with what's ever in your Jats crackers, I think is your nuptials. Yes, whichever word we want to use, I think we need to break down the fact that that's just not the case at all. It doesn't it's got nothing to do with who you are as a man, whether or not you can or you can't conceive. I don't know anybody that puts it on their resume what their sperm count is. I don't know anyone that puts it on their.

Sam Hargreaves:

Twitter or their Instagram profile, their Bumble or Tinder account when they're looking to meet someone. But yet when it comes to the moment of trying to conceive, then apparently all of our ideals and ideas about what it means to be a man is wrapped up in whether we can or cannot procreate. So got to change that.

Helen Zee:

Well, I so agree, and I know, look it's it's. You know, again it's. These things get passed down from generation to generation. You know who are we and what makes us a woman, who are we and what makes us a man, and the inability to procreate can have deep impacts on how we feel about ourselves and our sense of self, isn't it? And, and I know with my husband, my poor husband, when this happened for us and he was given the diagnosis of anti-sperm, antibodies, he really didn't know how to deal with it. It kind of shut down. And so, hearing you saying, let's talk about it, let's do something, and you, being a person that is, you know, a podcaster, and talking about it, I just really take my hat off to you and thank you so much.

Sam Hargreaves:

Oh no, that's fine. And I think the other big part of all this is that you know men's mental health, everybody's mental health is really important. But when you extrapolate out to the most jarring statistic in regards to men's mental health is that you know, seven out of ten suicides in Australia are men you wind that back and start to look at what could be some root causes of that. No, I'm not saying that fertility is the major cause of that, but I think that we'd be naive to think that that things like this aren't contributing factors to that overall number. So whatever we can do to eat away at that number to reduce that number. And I think the conversations like this are really important because they feed into that overall conversation around mental health and and looking after our mental health.

Sam Hargreaves:

And I suppose I started to really get passionate about having these conversations when I'm someone who has battled depression, anxiety throughout, pretty much from, I think, probably at the age of 12 onwards, and have had some really really low moments and really really difficult moments. That were times I wasn't really sure whether I was going to see the other side of or stick around to see the other side of. But through all that and having grown up in a household that really valued and spoke a lot and openly about mental health, my stepmum, who came into my life at the age of 12, is, you know, one of the greatest people I know and have had the privilege of knowing. She's a mental health professional. So we spoke really openly and honestly about this stuff and through her encouragement and the work that she did so I've had an understanding of, I suppose, my own mental health and an insight, I guess, into what other people may or may not go through, but the value of therapy, counselling, coaching, and I've tapped into that and it's been an invaluable part of my life and a saviour in my life at times.

Sam Hargreaves:

And so I sort of came into this thinking, geez, if I've got that base level of understanding and knowledge and resource and want to explore that place and to value that and have had the experiences I've had and be able to benefit from it, and still went through what I did when I found out I had zero sperm, I really do worry about men who haven't had the benefits of those things that I have, when they get that news and then how they process it, deal with it, navigate through it, what support.

Sam Hargreaves:

They go and do they even try to get any support? So I suppose that was the key thing for me, because I immediately went, when I got my reading um, to that place of I'm not a real man, I'm worthless, I'm, and I'm thinking, gee, I know better than that, but I still went to that place, yeah. So I really, I really my heart sort of started to go out to to blokes who who't haven't had the benefit of what I've had, and I really worry about that. So I really want to take the stigma away from all of this and, like a lot of blokes, I do that through jokes you know self-deprecation, but not self-flagellation, I suppose and sort of try to take the sting out of it. I suppose for me, and hopefully you invite other people to do the same.

Helen Zee:

Yeah, no, I love that. I love that and I think, you know, when anything is not spoken, there becomes a stigma. So the more we speak about it and come out of you know, come out of the cave, come out of the dark, the conversation then allows it to be more okay, the stigma can start to disappear and dissolve. So, yes, the conversation on all of this is powerful and good. And so, sam, tell me, please do share a bit about your journey and you know, what brought you to this space of you know, having your own journey brought you to this, this space of, um, you know, having your own journey.

Sam Hargreaves:

Um, so I reckon for the most of my adult life I was single. I'd had some long-term relationships, but I'd had a? Um, pretty much a single life as an adult for most of that time, some wonderful relationships throughout, but, um, it had never been on my cards to have kids. But when my partner, beautiful evie, and I started to talk about, uh, wanting to start a family, she said to me have you ever had any almost moments? Um, you know, did you ever get one through the keeper? And I started thinking, I said, gee, I know I never did and did, and that sort of surprised me a little.

Sam Hargreaves:

I'd like to say that I was always meticulous in making sure that that could never happen, but, you know, you're not always perfect in that space. And so then, when we started trying to conceive, naturally I was always sitting in the back of my mind. We'd been a couple of months in and I just didn't have a great. There was just something gnawing away at me, like I don't sort of buy into the fact that I had a premonition for it. Others might, but I just had a bad feeling, yeah. And so I just said, look. And Evie said, well, look, I'm going to go get tested. And I said, look, and Evie said, well, look, I'm going to go get tested. And I said, well, you know, I reckon I should go get tested as well. And again, that never really. I still at that point didn't really think that it was going to be the result that I got. I just thought, well, let's just take something off the table.

Helen Zee:

Yeah.

Sam Hargreaves:

And given that I was almost 40, or was 40, and my partner's three years younger than me, so you know which this is an awful phrase, but we were both conceived. She, you know, it was concept to conceive would be considered a geriatric pregnancy, which we, we really need to change I totally understand under 40, yeah and uh.

Sam Hargreaves:

So I just said, oh, let's just take that off the table and that's one less thing to worry about. And so I went and got tested and I've got to say, for all the fears about getting tested, the actual act itself is the easiest thing that any bloke will ever do, because they've been training to do it since they hit puberty. So you've never done anything as much in your life as you've done. As this I wouldn't have thought for most blokes. So that part very easy, albeit there's a little awkwardness to it.

Sam Hargreaves:

And this has been part of the, I think, the really joyful side of the conversations that I've had with people about this. And I was actually at the back of a footy commentary box the other day speaking to someone who had not exactly the same as mine but had been through the IVF journey as well, and we were both just laughing about that. You know, did you sit on that couch? No, I didn't, I stood in the middle of it, you know. And again, you might think, if you listen to this, we're working a bit blue here, but this is just the cold hard facts of it. So this is. You know, we're not being gratuitous, this is just the process and what you need to go through. So that in itself I think and I've sort of worked in radio for such a long time and had the privilege of working with a whole lot of Australia's best comedians at various times so I love to try and find the funny in everything and I think there is funny in everything and there's certainly funny in infertility. As strange as it may seem, ivf, there is a lot to laugh about and to you know, to share those laughs with.

Sam Hargreaves:

But anyway, so I went and got that done and I remember my partner had got her results and her infertility was the fact that she just produced very, very few eggs. She had very few eggs. It was going to have very few eggs at her disposal and that really hit her quite hard. But we knew that that didn't mean that it was impossible, we just knew that it was going to be a little bit more difficult. So she had been through that and all the time I'm saying you know, no, there's nothing wrong with you, this is just what it is, it's not anything you've done.

Sam Hargreaves:

Because she started to think well, have I not looked? And she was someone who exercised twice a day, you know eats really healthily and well and heartily. You know eats really healthily and and and well and heartily, and um, and so she went through all of that. What if I? You know, it's just something I've done and you know not, she's not a big drinker or anything like that. So, um, and I threw out the whole time going, no, no, don't think like that, don't think like that. And then, as soon as I got my results, um, and I thought that maybe there was going to be something like. I thought maybe I'll just have a low number or maybe it'll just be like I just, you know, it's not ideal, but there's something to work with. And I was about 10 minutes to go on air to do my show on SEN.

Helen Zee:

Really.

Sam Hargreaves:

Wow. And I saw the call come up and I thought it was someone calling about one of the interviews. I was trying to tee up, so I answered the call and they said oh, it's um, it's um, you know dr palmer, and that was our fertility specialist, dr shandrika palmer, who's a superstar, rock star, um, anyway, and she goes have you got a minute? I said yeah, yeah, I've got about 10 minutes before I go on. And she goes oh, maybe, maybe I'll call back. And I said no, no, no, no, no, it's all right, what are we? She goes well, your results will come back. And I said okay. And she said yeah, there's zero sperm, wow, and it didn't, I don't, I think, I just didn't quite it didn't land. And I just said oh, so when you say zero, do you mean just like that we can use on this occasion? Or I couldn't, it didn't compute. And she goes no, sam, you've got zero sperm.

Sam Hargreaves:

And I just went into shock and I got off the phone and I just it really hit me like a ton of bricks and it's amazing what happens at the age of almost 40, but the first thing I could think of was and I'm getting, I need to speak to my dad Where's my dad? You just go into this childlike. I just went into this very childlike place and I was walking out to go, and I'll never forget this. I was walking out to go and this is part of what made me want to do things like this is because the compassion that I was shown in this particular moment, bob Murphy, who's a Western Bulldogs legend, you know, and just a legend of a human being he was coming out during an ad break of his show and I go on after them, and he just took one look at me and he said oh, something's happened, are you okay? Like he, just the empathetic, lovely soul that he is, he just took one look at me and said you look like, and he grabbed me by the shoulders because I just must have had the most stunned, and you know, I don't know what the expression was and I just and in that he goes are you okay, can I help you, do you? The expression was and I just and and in that he goes, are you okay? Can I help you? Do you need what? You know what's happened? And I said I just need to get out, I need, I need to go. Um, I need to speak to my dad, and he did so, he let me go, and it wasn't till um, a couple years later actually, um, about a year and a half to two years later, after um and spoiler alert after our uh, first son, charlie, was born that I rang him and told him about what that day was and what had actually just happened and thanked him for the care that he showed.

Sam Hargreaves:

But I went outside and I rang my dad and I just went straight into that place of I'm not a real man, I'm less than I'm. It's you know the shame, yeah, that's probably the word. I just felt the shame and and then started to think, well, what did I do to create this? What? What have I, you know? And then I started to look at all my life choices. Have I had too much of a good time in my life? You know, I drink too much and and all those things start, you know, just like attacking your sense of self and your, your identity and all that stuff. And my dad just said, well, look, you know that that's not true. You know that none of that's true. And why are you on the phone to me? You need to go and speak to Evie. So I did and, yeah, she was just. I just think you know that you're going to be with someone for the rest of your life when you have those conversations, and for some people who have been through some horrible things in their life, this might all sound trivial, but for us this was the most important thing we were doing at that point and she just said we'll get through it, we'll find a way. And we just started using language like it wasn't my infertility or her infertility, it was our infertility and we were going to. It was for both of us.

Sam Hargreaves:

So we went and sat down with our fertility specialist and she just said look, yes, I'm not going to lie to you. This is going to be really difficult. It's going to take a miracle for you guys to conceive, but it's not impossible and I believe we can do it. And all you need is one and one. You just need one sperm and one egg and I think we can do it. I wouldn't undertake this if I didn't believe we could get a result and we trusted her, because people can tell you a lot in life and you go. No, I think you might just be trying to fleece us here. We never had any doubts about her integrity, her intentions, her priorities, her support. And so we just went. What do we do? And she said, right, well, there's medication, sam, that you can be taking.

Sam Hargreaves:

And I asked in those moments, have I done this to myself? And she said no, and a lot of blokes might again start to do that. Self the blame, the blame game, she said, to damage the sperm in the way that it is with you to be the number that you are, or the lack thereof. You would have had to have been. You know the amount you would have had to drink. You know you would have to be doing every drug, every like, whatever it was. She just said I would wipe that clear. And she said has anything ever happened in your life that? Have you ever had any trauma to that area? And I just it just like a light bulb.

Sam Hargreaves:

I went, oh, yeah, when I was playing, and so I used to be a rollerblader, not the lycra along the beach kind, but back when it was cool in the late 90s, uh, you know the grinding stairs and jumping, grinding rails and jumping off things, and I was a rollerblader and, uh, or inline skater, and there's a few times when, uh, the legs went either side of a handrail and that hurt, sort of like the funniest video show type things. But there was one moment that stood out. I was playing footy in under-16s and accidentally one of my opponents slid in to get the ball. On a wet day I did the same. Our legs sort of came together but his knee went straight into the Jats crackers.

Sam Hargreaves:

And at under 16, you don't back then when you got to that age, you would sort of shower just in your jocks. You hadn't got to the age yet where you felt comfortable showering in the nude with all the other lads, but even with my jocks on. One bloke said look. One of my teammates just said I don't mean to look here, but have you had a look down? Have you had a look at your balls? And I just looked down and I went holy shit. And I reached and they had swollen up to like I would say, larger than cricket balls both. And it didn't look good, like the kind of thing where you just go when you look at something on your body and go. That's not supposed to be like that.

Helen Zee:

Yeah, that's a big trauma on the body. Yeah.

Sam Hargreaves:

Yeah. So we went up to hospital and I've got great mileage out of this story too. We might be going for another day, but the nurse who came in was quite nice and then she left and I'd had a natural 16-year-old reaction to that and then I would say he was in his 60s. She was very lovely. She said I'll take that as a compliment. The doctor that came in just sort of had a bit of a befuddle. I remember saying that's not for you. He said well. He said well, the good news is the swelling should go down. I missed a week of school because of this and um, probably because it sounds so painful it was, and I and I, and so a lot of frozen peas.

Sam Hargreaves:

Uh, we went, we've gone through, but what we, what she was able to say, is he goes well. Well, that's it.

Helen Zee:

That's your thing. That trauma would have had a massive effect.

Sam Hargreaves:

And she said did you get surgery? And I said no, and she did the thing in her head and sort of went and had a look at it. She said, well, from my understanding of anything like that, at that age, in that period of time, they wouldn't have operated because they would have believed that a younger body would have healed itself. And she said I just don't think yours ever did Right. So there was clearly a contusion, a rupture, and I just wasn't creating any healthy or any sperm. Really yeah, but I know I'm sort of rambling here. But we then she just said look, there's medication. And then we got on two different types of medication. I started doing acupuncture, I stopped drinking, redoubled my efforts to exercise better. We just went through a full, whole lifestyle overhaul, both Evie and I, and she was the same, she was on medication, acupuncture, and then we just dived in feet first and into this IVF journey. And it's not an easy and for anyone that's been through it, it's really difficult, especially on women. My part, as I said before, is easy. Evie had to do all the heavy lifting, just like in a pregnancy, just like in a birth. A woman does all the heavy lifting, just like in a pregnancy, just like in a birth, the woman does all the heavy lifting but after a few goes, we were able to get our one and one and yeah, and we were able to have our first boy, charlie.

Sam Hargreaves:

And I think once we started doing IVF I just started talking about it. I would get on air and start talking about it and I was overwhelmed by the amount of text messages that we. When you're on air at the SCN, a lot of radio stations there's a text machine that in real time comes through. Oh wow, really it can be quite confronting when people are not liking what you're doing and you know it's like social media anonymously they can text in and some of it can be pretty nasty. Majority of it's great because it's just contributing to the conversation of a talkback sports station. But I was just really surprised about the amount of men that text and said, oh, I had some drama too, please don't read this out. And that was the part that I really. That really made me sit up and take notice of the amount of men who not only just said that happened to me, but also how many didn't want it read out, even though I would never. We don't identify people fully when we read these out. But they were so that shame and that a bit embarrassed. But the appreciation and I think, without sounding like a flog admiration for me being so open, because I was sort of on there saying I'm shooting blanks and you know this and I've got to go and do this and and talking about it very, very openly and, um, you know, like you talk about going to the dentist, um, that was sort of our thing that we both were really open. Our families jumped on board my parents actually I'll get to them in a minute, but in in that moment.

Sam Hargreaves:

Um, one thing that really stood out to me about why I wanted to have conversations like this was there was a guy who, ever since I joined sen, had trolled me relentlessly in in the station could, could put up something on social media that would say how many weeks should such and such get for this dangerous tackle on such and such, and he would write sam Hargrove should get life from SEN. This guy just despised me. Everything I did. He would tell me. He would text in when I was on air and tell me how bad I was, tell me I couldn't you know how awful a commentator presenter, all those things you would get into. A mate would send me some stuff he wrote on Twitter about, like this guy. Just there was nothing redeemable about me in this guy's eyes.

Sam Hargreaves:

And I remember the first time I jumped on air and started talking about my infertility and the shooting blanks and all that and doing IVF, he texted in and said, sam, my son was through IVF, good luck with your journey and thank you for sharing. And I couldn't believe it. Yeah, 24 hours later, he was back to telling me how bad I was. But in that moment, in that moment, liz, we came together and we had a common ground. Awesome.

Sam Hargreaves:

I just thought it actually, and not that I would really want to give this bloke credit for much, but it was one of the things that had me thinking. I reckon we need to be having more conversations, um, like this and the support that I got, that we got our family, my parents, became experts in ivf, like to the point where they're even saying to evie, now you should be here in your cycle that's how my that's how my yeah, that's how my family operate, but um and her parents were just amazing in their support and, um, yeah, we we now have actually two boys, because we did ivf again and it was hard of the second time, but, um, yeah, we were.

Sam Hargreaves:

I was able to freeze some sperm and and so that the so when we started doing all of this, everybody sort of got in behind us. My friends and I had mates that I'd known, a couple of people I'd known for my whole life really, or you know, through school and through adult life who just quietly came up to me when I was, we had a bit of a. We went up to Bendigo, where I'm from, and we were about to go in for what. We had a few false starts and it hadn't gone well. We got no result the first time we did IVF, but we'd gone up, we were confident that maybe we had turned a corner with some things, and I remember getting a few people together and we were at the pub and I was telling them all about this, and a couple of people that I had no idea about, who had kids and who said, yeah, we had some trouble and this is what we did and it's, you know, good on you for being so open, because we didn't really tell anybody and I wish we had of and and that really stuck out to me.

Sam Hargreaves:

But, um, I think the second test that I got done, I had seven, seven sperm, and I remember being not as deflated and disappointed, but still like seven, like of all I've done all these things over the last you know, a couple of months and I said, okay, so is that seven sperm we can use? And Dr Palmer said, oh, no, no, we can't use any of these, these are no good. And I likened them to that scene in the Wedding Singer with Adam Sandler where he points to the freaks on table nine I think it was. Those were my swimmers at that point. They were bumping into each other, they couldn't swim in the right direction, they weren't great. But she just said I got really flat. And she just said, no, this is good. She said we've gone from zero to something. So clearly, what we're doing with this medication, all that you're doing, has sparked something Great direction.

Sam Hargreaves:

Yeah, so keep going. And then finally, yeah, yeah, she said sam, I'm. This is one of the more pleasing phone calls I get to make, but we have usable sperm wow and from that point, we felt like we were on and, um, as I said, we had a few false starts, um, but we just kept doing what we were doing, and, and, and we got our miracle, we got our one-on-one and that's all we had. Like I said, okay, we've got the one egg and the one sperm. Yeah, and that was Charlie.

Helen Zee:

Awesome, awesome and many congratulations. And you now have two boys, which is freaking awesome. I'm so happy for you both.

Sam Hargreaves:

Thank you, charlie and Alfie.

Sam Hargreaves:

And yeah, they're just incredible. And you know, I couldn't be any more grateful and I think we were talking before about that concept of not being a real man and what it means to be a man. And I would, hand on my heart, say that I'm a better man than I ever was before I found out that I had zero sperm now than I was before that. And I'm a better man now undoubtedly because the work I did on myself, undoubtedly because the work I did on myself, the support that I got given I gave everything that we went through and we did to get our two miracle boys and now, as a father, as a partner, I felt like I'm better at my job now. So it is amazing that that concept of you know, that whole idea and my first thought of I'm not a real man, to where I sit now and think if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be the man I am now and I'm telling you that this man is far better than the one that existed before. I got that zero sperm count news.

Helen Zee:

Yeah, and I hear you, I so hear and it's lovely to hear, Like I had my own 10-year journey and, as I say that that was a gift, it was a gift because it helped me come home to myself and heal myself and just become more aware and learn more. So I 100% hear that I became a better person, better mother, better partner, better. You know all of these things and that's what I say. You know, although it feels awful, it is a gift and beautiful things will come out of this. You know, when times are tough, we actually grow the most, don't we?

Sam Hargreaves:

Yeah, yeah, we do.

Sam Hargreaves:

And I think that, when it comes to and I have heard some stories about some other people who have gone through IVF and one thing I'd really say to blokes is that if you put your head in the sand about this, yeah if you refuse to think that it could be you, or if you do get the news that I got and then just disengage with it all, then your partner goes through it by herself and it is a really really and you know this, liz, it is, it is really. It can be invasive, it can be very confronting, physically, emotionally, taxing and draining the whole IVF process. So I just would really love to encourage men again to take the stigma away so that when you do get that news, you don't think it doesn't put you into a pit that you can't see the other side of and can't be able to not the other side of it, because you don't see the other side of the pit, but you can't climb out of and you can't get yourself out of, because there is a set of hands there waiting to pull you out, and that's your partner, and she is waiting for you to do the same for her. You out, and that's your partner, and and she is waiting for you to do the same for her. Um, so I would just really encourage men to to, even if you get the worst news, even if your camp is, like mine, zero, yeah, it doesn't.

Sam Hargreaves:

It's not the end. There are so many things you can do, um to to turn that around, and if you and and and you you know this from your partner's experience, liz, there's a whole lot you can do and there are so many options available to you. But the most important thing about all this is the getting tested. Yeah, we spent a couple of months trying, naturally, and again when we wanted to have our second, yeah, and if you don't know, you're sort of fumbling around for a light switch in the dark.

Helen Zee:

Yeah, you don't know what you don't know.

Sam Hargreaves:

You don't know what you don't know, and you might be absolutely fine, but take this off the table as quickly as you can, or be aware that it is absolutely what's on the table as quickly as you can, because the strain that your relationship goes under and if you speak to so many people that and I know you have that go through infertility and difficulty conceiving is the pressure that it puts on the relationship, the fact that sex becomes a chore and a task rather than a joy rather than a joy. The fact that it becomes, you know, a job that you have to do as opposed to something that you want to do.

Sam Hargreaves:

Yeah yeah, and then you almost then you start to fear it, both of you, and that's a really unhealthy place to be in as a couple, let alone what you're trying to do as a family. And again, I'm not a therapist, but I just know what we went through and I know what other couples have been through.

Helen Zee:

It's not about connection anymore, is it? No, it's not.

Sam Hargreaves:

And how many people have you spoken to? That said, I wish we had got tested earlier, because then we just would have known. Then we just kind of jumped into what we needed to do to turn it around. But the time that you waste, or the time that you spend trying to conceive naturally, when you may or may not have fertility issues that you're not aware of because you haven't got tested, that's a massive strain on your relationship for one and two, and this is the best way I think I could describe it.

Sam Hargreaves:

I know couples have tried for two, three, four years. That's two, three, four years that you don't get with, hopefully, your eventual children, and so I just can't encourage men in particular to get tested anymore because, again, what you will go through from a mental health point of view over a sustained and protracted period of time will be far less, will be far more damaging than that news of you've got zero sperm, if indeed you do, or low sperm, which I know people have got. That's a kick to the you know what, of course, ironically, but what you? Well, the damage that you will do to your self-esteem, to your relationship, to a whole range of things over time, yeah, yeah, it's far worse. So I just yeah again that message of just. You know it takes balls to get tested it really does so go and do it.

Helen Zee:

Yeah, no, thank you. And thank you so much for your passion. I feel it coming out of every core and being of yourself. And you know, just to reiterate, you know, have the test as early as possible if you're thinking of getting pregnant, or even before, just so that you know, because things can be done. And luckily we live in this age where, medically, there's so much support, as well as holistically, you know, with food, with health, with exercise, with understanding who we are as the healthy being, there's a lot that can be done.

Helen Zee:

And also, you know, when you're both going through this, we're both feeling the same, we're both attacking the self. You know whether it's a female going through their fertility journey. We look inside and like, oh my God, what have I done? And it sounds like from the man as well. We look inside. So allow yourself to have the conversation with each other and connect in some ways on a much deeper space than you would ever realize, because then that opens the being, the self, the heart, into a whole new way of being able to connect and also understanding each other on such an amazingly beautiful level.

Sam Hargreaves:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think just the whole idea of it being the thing that defines you it can, because I feel like for me, it has been in the most positive of ways, as opposed to feeling like it's something to be ashamed of or something that you should be embarrassed by or, you know, something that dictates who you are as a person, because it's not, it's got nothing to do with your value as a person and who you are as it will only do that if you let it. Yeah, um, and that's really easy. That that might sound really easy to say, but we were really big on that in our house. If ever we were, if ever each of us started using that language of or even apologizing to the other I'm sorry, you know I'm, you know we would we would nip that in the bud straight away, and that was part of the support that we gave each other. We just didn't allow that to be part of our narrative, our conversation, our language in and around that, and I really want that for everybody to say, that it can really knock you around if you let it.

Sam Hargreaves:

And the great thing about a lot of the IVF places that you go to and the fertility specialists that you see, is they will really encourage you to use the counselling services that are there because this is as much a mental thing as it is a physical thing is the counselling services that are there because this is as much a mental thing as it is a physical thing. So, to be looking after your physical health, your mental health, all through this process is of the highest importance. But I think it all starts with the way that we talk about it and the fact that you know I know people that went through IVF 10, 15, 20 years ago and you had to hide it, um, so this whole thing of secrecy, that that sort of surrounds, that which I think we just need to strip all that back. And that's essentially, I suppose, what we did. I just I just started.

Sam Hargreaves:

It was just how are you? Yeah, not bad. What are you up to this week? Oh, I've got to go in and do a um, do a, an ivf treatment. I've got oh, I've got to go in and do an IVF treatment. I've got a sperm thing. We just started to speak about it as it was as commonplace as going to the GP or going to the dentist, or going to the supermarket, or you know wallet keys phone when you leave the house. I mean, it just needs to be much more of a part of our conversation.

Helen Zee:

And I love that.

Sam Hargreaves:

Yeah, because then it removes that idea that there is something to be embarrassed about here or something to be ashamed of and there's not. There's not. You wouldn't allow someone to be ashamed and I certainly know that people obviously go through that with any medical issue that they have, and I certainly know that people obviously go through that with any medical issue that they have but you wouldn't allow someone to be ashamed by, you know, the colour of your eyes or the colour of your hair, or the fact that you've got a freckle in a certain spot. I mean, these are just things that for so many people, can't be helped. So why would we allow and why would we create this place where there is something to be ashamed of? Whether you can or you can't conceive how many eggs you have, how many sperm you have. It's just ridiculous, it's just harmful and it needs to really stop.

Helen Zee:

It needs to change. Yeah, and what if it's an opportunity to grow, to learn and to be more, which is what it ends up being. And with this, because I know we're running out of time with this, what I'm, but they are awesome and open up this conversation about men's fertility emotionally, physically, spiritually, in all ways, and that's going to be awesome.

Sam Hargreaves:

Yeah, I can't wait. I'm really honored to be asked to be involved and I was really excited when you guys reached out. We've done a couple of videos and articles through our IVF provider and our fertility specialist, and the response that I got from a couple of those articles that I put out on my instagram and social media was really, really positive. Um, so I think that what you guys are doing to just and I love even the term expo because you've taken it when you think of expo, I think about expo. I'm old enough to have expo 88 and things like that so are something. There's a really positive tone and vibe to all of that.

Helen Zee:

Yeah.

Sam Hargreaves:

I reckon even better that if it was even a seminar sounds too serious. So I love the fact that this is an expo. We're going to talk openly and passionately and supportively and humorously about fertility. It's going to be incredible. I can't wait to facilitate the panel, to share my stories, to hear everybody else's, from very different perspectives and lived experiences. It's going to be great and hopefully through that people are able to take something away from it and hopefully help them in what they're going through.

Helen Zee:

Absolutely, and continue the conversation. And so the Melbourne Fertility Expo is happening on the 8th of November 2025. Go to the AustralianFertilitySummitcomau webpage and all the tickets are there. Early birds are happening at the moment and so, Sam, if people are listening to this and they want to go, where can I find Sam? Where is he Share, where people can find you.

Sam Hargreaves:

Well, if they're big golf fans, they can listen to the Course Language podcast, but my Instagram is at SamHargrove99. I'm pretty bad at social media, to be honest. I need to put more time and effort into it. I get told by the radio stations I've worked at and TV and things like that that I should be doing more and I am trying to get better in that space. But I'm a country boy from Bendigo.

Sam Hargreaves:

It's not part of our DNA to be as self-promotional as social media needs you to be or requires of you. So find me there. I still call footy for SEN. Yeah, I commentate golf for the Golf New South Wales events. I just did the Australian Oceania Cup for the men's and women's hockey, so the hockey won. And, yeah, it could be any number of places if it's cricket, footy, golf, any of the sports that I'm doing.

Sam Hargreaves:

But my primary role in life is a stay-at-home dad and that's, I think, the greatest privilege that I've ever had in my life that when we had Charlie and now Alfie, that we made the call that my partner is the major breadwinner of the family. She's the superstar of the family, the beautiful Evie, and when she went back to work we decided that I was going to be the one that stayed at home, and that's the greatest title that I could ever put on my Instagram page, or greatest title that I could ever put on my Instagram page or on the bottom of an email signature stay at home, dad. And it wouldn't have happened, I don't think, if we hadn't gone and got tested, so yeah, that's where you'll mainly find me at home.

Helen Zee:

Yeah, no, I love it. And always that opportunity to grow. You know, life is an amazing teacher, isn't it?

Sam Hargreaves:

Yeah.

Helen Zee:

It really is. So, sam, thank you so much for sharing you with such heartfelt words, your journey and just about, you know, letting everybody know it's okay to have the conversation. So thank you so much for your time.

Sam Hargreaves:

It's my pleasure, Liz. Thanks for everything that you guys are doing in this space.

Helen Zee:

And I look forward to seeing you at the Melbourne Fertility Expo and also meeting your family too, because please bring them all down and, yeah, let's break all this stigma and support everybody to know that there's always an opportunity to grow and to create the health and the fertility that they want. Absolutely All right.

Helen Zee:

Then with that I will say goodbye and thank you very much. Thanks for joining us at the Home of Fertility. We hope today's episode brought you clarity, comfort and connection.

Liz Walton:

If this podcast resonated, please share it, leave a review or subscribe.

Helen Zee:

This helps us support more people that are on this path, and if you'd like to connect or share your story, find us on Instagram and Facebook. At Australian Fertility Summit.

Liz Walton:

Remember, the missing piece might be waiting in a story, your body's wisdom or something new just made for you.

Helen Zee:

Take care and we'll see you next time.