RightSizing with Jeannine Bryant

In this episode of the Ask Dr. Mia podcast, Dr. Mia speaks with Jeannine Bryant, a downsizing expert, about the challenges and emotional aspects of helping seniors transition to smaller living spaces. They discuss the concept of "right sizing", the importance of planning, and when to seek professional help. 

Jeannine shares practical tips for decluttering, navigating family dynamics, and handling crisis situations, especially for those with memory issues. The conversation emphasizes the emotional journey involved in sorting through belongings and the importance of timing in the moving process, along with resources available for families.

Takeaways

Right sizing is about finding the perfect balance in living space.
Planning ahead is crucial for a smooth transition.
Professional help can ease the burden of moving.
Emotional attachments to belongings can complicate downsizing.
Start the decluttering process early to avoid overwhelm.
Focus on keepsakes that bring joy and memories.
Family dynamics can create tension during the moving process.
Crisis situations require careful planning and support.
It's important to respect the wishes of the older adult.
Resources are available to assist families in the transition process.

Rightsizing expert Jeannine Bryant is the owner and CEO of Changing Spaces SRS, a senior move management company in Lincoln, Nebraska.  She has helped provide rightsizing and relocation services to seniors since 2010.  During that time, she has been actively involved in the downsizing and moving processes of thousands of older adults.

She is the author two books on the rightsizing process, Keep the Memories, Not the Stuff and Ready to Rightsize?  A step-by-step guide to your rightsizing journey.

She provides free resources filled with downsizing tips for older adults on her website www.EasyRightsizing.com, including downloadable worksheets, books, and an online course to guide people through the downsizing process with ease. 

Bryant has been featured on numerous podcasts and is a regular contributor on various TV news stations.  Originally from North Dakota, she holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from Northwestern College in Orange City, IA and a Master of Arts degree from University of Nebraska – Lincoln. 

Website: https://easyrightsizing.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EasyRightsizing/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/easyrightsizing/

Transcript

0:03

Welcome back to Ask Dr. Mia podcast. I'm excited for this new episode during this new season in 2025 to talk with Janine Bryant, who is a right sizing expert from EasyRightSizing.com. She helps seniors in terms of times of transition as well as moving and different transitions of care. So welcome to the podcast, Janine. Hello, thanks Dr. Mia, I'm happy to be here. Yeah, thank you. I know this time of the year and the beginning of the year, oftentimes people are looking at either making resolutions or goals or that oftentimes as a geriatrician, I find that right after the holidays is when we get a peak of interest in families who are noticing changes in their loved ones and then all of sudden want to have a consultation. I'm curious if you experience similar things in your line of work. Yes, absolutely. Those adult children come home, people gather for the holidays, and they start to realize, okay, I'm not sure that mom and dad are okay in the space where they're at. And so it's natural, like you said, at the beginning of the year for us to think about what does this year hold for us? And, you know, none of us have a crystal ball, but... It is really important, especially in that last chapter of life, to kind of make some plans to think about what is life gonna look like over the next 12 months and is this the place for mom and dad to stay or do they need some extra help? Would a smaller space be better? What about some retirement community options? So yeah, I see a huge uptick in January. absolutely. We're, we're, we're centering around kind of the similar population of folks. So when you say right sizing, what does that mean? Yeah, I've kind of adopted that term, right sizing. I didn't come up with it. But you know, the typical term is downsizing. Most of my clients are moving out of a larger home, maybe one they've been in for a few decades, and they're downsizing to a smaller home, either a townhome or a retirement community, an apartment of some kind. And they're giving up half or more of their stuff, half or more of their space, which means they have to get rid of half or more of their stuff. And you know, it is going from larger to smaller, but that sometimes can have a negative connotation. And so I really love that term right sizing because it's finding that perfect place between too much and too little. You know, I'm not here to convince anyone to give up all of the stuff that they love. I want to help people identify the things that they love so that they can keep the most important stuff and let the rest of it go. The phrase I always use is keep the best. let go of the rest so that they can be in a home that's just the right size for them with all of their favorite stuff with them and none of that stuff that we all have in our homes. You the stuff we don't need, the stuff we're not using and the stuff we don't even really want. Right. So that's the easy stuff. Let's get rid of that so that we can move into that perfect size house. It's like that Goldilocks, not too big, not too small. Right, right. There's a lot of Goldilocks phenomenon and in geriatrics as well in terms of not too much weight, not too little weight, not too many medicine, not too few medicine, just the right amount. So I know, you know, personally with my, so since the last time I shared on this podcast, my mom has since passed away and I know I personally actually have helped my dad in terms of downsizing. right sizing, you know, the possessions that she had and the house that they live in. So it's definitely a topic that's fresh on my mind because we're just going through it. And so I guess the question is, how do people know when they should kind of consult a moving expert such as yourself versus doing it on their own? What are some things that you would suggest people to kind of keep an eye or keep an ear out? if they think, okay, this may be a situation where I need some professional help. Yeah, there's several different levels of help that you can have. The highest level is hiring someone to do it for you or with you, really. And that is there's a whole industry in the United States called the Senior Move Management Industry. And if your listeners are interested, they can go to nasm.org. That's N-A-S-M-M.org. And you can find a senior move manager near you and what senior move managers can do, they specialize in helping older adults who are downsizing. So they can start with a floor plan. They can help folks sort, decide what to keep, what not to keep. They bring all the boxes. They do all the packing. They manage move day and they get them unpacked in the new place. I always say they're like the adult daughters who come home and they do everything the adult daughter would do if she was there. And sometimes they do it alongside the adult daughter. And that's kind of the highest level of care is you just write a check. It's usually several thousand dollars, but then they come in and they do all of that for you. And that's actually my business in Lincoln, Nebraska, where I'm based. own a senior move management company, and we're now in our 17th year in business and we help over 150 families every year. And that's really kind of the easiest. That's the easy button, right? Now the next level is what I'm trying to do over at EasyRightSizing.com is kind of teaching people who want to do it themselves. And the reason I started EasyRightSizing.com is because I would get phone calls from people outside of my geographic region and they would say, can you help my mom move? You know, we're 200 miles away. And unfortunately I had to say, no, I can't bring my staff out there, but boy. If you would listen to me, I could tell you exactly what to do, start to finish. And so that's when I started writing books about the downsizing process. And I developed that website, EasyWriteSizing.com that has lots of free resources and videos. And you know, I always say it's not rocket science, but it is something for many of our clients. They haven't moved in 20, 30 or 40 years. And so it is overwhelming. Dr. Mia, if you're doing it in a situation like you just described, of course, not only are you dealing with the stuff, but you're mourning the loss of a loved one, which makes it just so much heavier. And so there's lots of resources out there if you want to do it yourself. Certainly, if you want to do it yourself, you have to give yourself a longer runway. Do not try to do it yourself if you're moving in by January 15th. That is not going to work. If you've been in your home for a few decades, It's gonna take more than a few weekends to get through it. If you hire professional help, it can be done much faster. So I mean, you really have to kind of decide what's right for you. And that's why I suggest, even if you're not moving in the next six months, start the right sizing process now, because stuff accumulates, right? If we've been in our home for several years, we have more stuff than we need. So if you wanna chip away at that iceberg, That's it's only going to benefit you. Right. So start going through some of that stuff now and really just kind of getting into that mindset of figuring out what things in my home are most important to me and what things don't matter quite so much. I always say if it's not a heck yes, then it's a no. We want to bring only those heck yes items with us because those are the things that are most important. And those are some of the things that will probably be passed down to family members after you are gone. So, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. think when speaking from personal experience, when we sorted through my mom's things, one of the things that my dad did that I think was really helpful was just to really kind of look through and pick out the sentimental items, the things that, you know, I wouldn't have necessarily thought about it off the top of my head. But when I looked at it, it really jogged a memory that was really something that I wanted to keep. And so for example, you know, this ring that I'm wearing, for those of you who are looking at the video on YouTube, can see that this is actually my mother's ring. And it's one of the few pieces of jewelry where I actually remember her wearing because she wasn't actually a big jewelry person. But turns out when we were sorting through her things, she just had drawers and drawers. of jewelry that she bought at some point but then never used and some of them were never even open. And I was like, okay, well, I guess my mother was more into jewelry than I even I thought. Yeah. I love that. One of the tips that I always give, I wrote a book called Keep the Memories, Not the Stuff. And I always encourage people to keep keepsakes that they can use or display. Because the whole point of a keepsake is to make you happy and to remind you of someone or something that you loved. And it's hard to do that if it's in a box in the basement. And so that a ring like that is perfect because just throughout the day or every morning when you put it on, It'll just be that little warm memory of your mom. And if it's not something that you can use, then something that you can hang on the wall in your home, then not only you can see it, but other members of your family can see it. I lost my mother, it'll be 19 years ago, later this month. And my children never met my mother. And so one of the ways that I try to incorporate her memory into our life is to have some of those keepsakes around so that the kids see it and it's sort of a topic of conversation that we can talk about every once in a while. I mean, it's just a little way of inserting her memory into my day-to-day life. Yeah, absolutely. And I think you're totally right in that we have way too much stuff, even when I'm trying not to accumulate more things, it just the daily life of living with kids, it seems like there's more and more things and periodically, I feel like we have to sort through our playroom. And I'm sure in some of some of the families that I see, there's quite an accumulation of stuff and that sometimes it's overwhelming. for people, either older adults themselves or their family, to try to tackle. What would you suggest to kind of make this a little bit more piece-size? Yeah, right. Yeah, you know, they say, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. And you can't when I am working with someone who is planning a move, you know, I always remind them that we can't put 10 pounds of flour into a five pound sack. So we it really is not all going to fit. know you love all this stuff and you want to keep it all. That is not going to happen. There's not going to be room for it. And so I always recommend people just go room by room. Now, sometimes there's the advice to tackle the rooms that you use the most because you'll get the most benefit from it. So if you spend a lot of time in your living room, tackle the living room first. There's other advice out there that says if if it's too overwhelming, too sentimental, too difficult, then start with the low hanging fruit. OK, the easy stuff. And so for me, the easy stuff that would be start in the bathroom. OK, and you have to go through every closet, every cupboard, every drawer, look on every shelf. So maybe the first step would be just to take a tour of your home and just discover what exactly you have in that home. And then maybe you're identifying some of those trouble spots. If you are starting in an easy room, like the bathroom, open up every drawer, look under the sink, every cupboard, and pull out the things that are expired, that you're not using, that are dusty. Respect the limits of your space. and really keep only what you are using. Another tool I recommend utilizing is I call it the power of counting. It's very simple. It just means you're counting your stuff. So let's stick with the bathroom example. If you have five bottles of lotion in your bathroom, how many bottles of lotion does one really need? Okay, probably one plus a backup. So some of those old lotions you can get rid of. What about the towels? Count how many bath towels you have, count how many washcloths you have. You might be surprised. Because Dr. Mia, like you were saying, it's so true. Our outflow of stuff rarely keeps up with the inflow of stuff that's constantly coming into our house year after year. More is coming in than is going out. And that's why when you've been in a home for a few decades, things tend to pile up. You might be surprised. Many of your listeners, they might go into their bathroom, count how many towels they have and discover they have 32 bath towels, right? Shoved in that linen closet. And there, if there are two people, living in that house. I mean, here's the thing, you get to decide how much is enough, but practically, you ask yourself, how many times a week do I bathe and how many times a week do I do laundry? Two people, five towels is probably more than enough, know, five towels per person. And that's more than enough. So just simple hacks like that, like utilizing the power of counting. And that works great in your closet as well, if you're counting how many black turtlenecks you have, it works in your kitchen, how many mixing spoons do I have? You know, it works all over the place. How many screwdrivers do I have out in the garage? So you really have to tackle one room at a time. Another offering that I have on my website is called a year of letting go. And that is a 2025 calendar planner that gives right sizing prompts every single month. And the reason I developed that is to help readers achieve that power of focus. because we've all tried to do 10 different things at once and we don't feel like we ever make any real progress. Whereas this right sizing planner, it encourages people to focus on one room and only one room for the entire month. And I think January is the kitchen. So if you are focused on just the kitchen and nowhere else, you're not allowed to go into any other rooms and start downsizing. If you're focused only on the kitchen, going through every cupboard, every drawer, pulling out the things you're not using. And then here's the thing, you can't just make those piles. You actually have to do something with those piles. You have to get them out of your house by the end of the month. And if you do that 12 times throughout the year, 12 rooms of your home will be so much lighter at the end of 2025. So it's really all about kind of staying focused and making progress in one area before you move on to another. Absolutely, and I love how your website just has so many options in terms of Both the calendar that you mentioned but also free worksheets Podcasts episodes and and I actually bought and read the the book keep the memories not the stuff because I You know my mom passed from ovarian cancer. So we knew the end was coming and I'm Preparing for this interview. I was like, you is something I should probably read now because I probably won't want to read it later when I'm more emotional. I just have to say it's a great, fast, easy read and definitely wasn't something that was overwhelming to think about. But I want to transition a little bit because I know from in my own family, especially when I think about my grandmother, my dad's mother, who lived through quite a lot of period in her life where she was very poor, didn't have enough to eat, and that she kind of accumulated a lot of stuff and it's very difficult to ask her to let things go. I mean, I vividly still remember that we were trying to throw away a dirty toothbrush and she was like, no, no, no, no, we can't throw that away. I can use that to like... you know, wash the scuffs on the shoe. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, you know, what do you suggest to families where they might disagree, you know, the children might be more willing to let go something than the older adult themselves? I have the age-old question. It is a challenge. And there's always that balance, right? And I'm sure you run into this in your work as well, is that the older adult still gets the say, right? It's their stuff. And I mean, unless there's a situation where, you know, there's a memory issue and they're really, we got to get them moved by next week because there's a major liability here. They're, you know, we're worried they're going to burn the house down. Otherwise, mean, they are an adult and they get to make their own decisions. I think a lot of people who, you know, for instance, grew up during the Great Depression or grew up having very little, they're almost never going to be comfortable with that term, let's throw it out. And so sometimes you don't even, you don't have to use that word. Okay. You just have to say, let me take this out of your home and find a new home for it. Okay. One of the tips I give to people who are having a hard time releasing their stuff because of this scarcity that they remember very well is to help identify some people in the community who could benefit from some of their excess stuff. Some people who are having a hard time now, right? Maybe your loved one had a hard time 40 years ago, but there are people right now in the community who are having a hard time. And so while they may not need that old dirty toothbrush, they could use some extra coats that you're not wearing, some of those extra towels that you have too much of. So your excess can bless others in the community. And if you frame it like that, that can help a lot. And I think it's important for family members and adult children to remember to go gently through this process and without judgment and without frustration. I know that is easier said than done. But it's never, you know, it's just like fighting with your kids. It's not gonna end well if you're going into it with that kind of an attitude. That's another reason why sometimes bringing in outside help, like a senior move manager, can make it easier because we're sort of the outside experts. And sometimes our loved ones can hear things differently when it comes from someone other than us. So yeah, but that's a challenge that everyone, I think in every family faces. One of the things that I think older adults are most afraid of, and we will all be there ourselves if we are lucky enough to live that long, is losing control of their stuff. And yet the irony is that the longer they hold on and wait, the longer they hold on to their stuff, the more likely it is that they will lose control of their stuff, right? Because... If you do wait until you fall and break a hip and the doctor says you cannot go back home, we're going to find an assisted living for you. Now suddenly it's your adult son who's sorting through all of your stuff and deciding what to keep and what to let go of. And you're not even there, you're in the hospital recovering. another prompt to start early going through the stuff while you can maintain control of it and decide what's valuable enough to keep. then my excess stuff, who can I bless with that excess stuff? Yeah, absolutely. And that is a situation that we unfortunately see way too often is that the older adult themselves had all these plans to do things, but then the plan, the day never came until it actually came to a more sudden move, a more a move in a moment of crisis. Right, I always say, hey, it's not in five years, you're gonna have even more stuff to do to deal with and less energy with which to do it, right? It's not getting any easier. So let's do it now. Yeah. So let's talk about more of these moments of crisis. So if people were in a situation where they are helping, someone with memory problems moving into a retirement community, and I know in dealing with families who are dealing with memory issues, oftentimes a person with memory loss doesn't necessarily have the insight that their home situation is not safe and they may think everything is fine. And then it oftentimes becomes like this huge argument. argument and I tell families as well to not argue with them. But what advice would you give for folks who might have to really move in a hurry? Mm-hmm. Yeah. mean, building a team around you, having trusted doctors around you, kind of all sending that same message. I have a lot of folks in my area who work with placement advisors. So these are lots of times companies who can come in and help you figure out which retirement community or which memory care or assisted living is right for you and your budget. Lots of times those are free services because they those services get paid a referral fee from the retirement communities. And if it is a hurry-up-rush job, the first thing we always start with is figuring out the furniture. Just taking some simple measurements, and especially if they're moving into memory care, the people at those facilities will encourage you not to bring too much stuff, okay, because sometimes it can add to the confusion and anxiety of the person. Doing some simple measurements, bringing the essential furniture first, and then kind of taking it step-by-step. Okay, next we're going to do clothing and some toiletries. Then we're going to bring a few photos or artwork that are special and meaningful to that client over the more time you can give yourself between when you have to move your loved one, even if it's a rush job, and emptying out and selling the house, the better. Okay, if your loved one is having to move in a hurry, don't move them next week and then try to empty out the house and sell it by the end of the month. It's probably too much. if you can possibly bear to wait for a few more weeks or a month financially, because I know it is a financial burden, but if you are able to stretch that out a little bit, it's gonna be less stressful on everyone. Now, I am not recommending bringing your loved one with memory problems back to the house. That might cause more problems, but at least you have access to that house. so that once your loved one is settled in that small apartment at Memory Care, You can see that there might be room for another little extra side table here, maybe we can bring that over just take it slowly piece by piece and try not to rush it. That's great advice. think measuring furniture is such a basic thing. And if your couch at home does not fit into that tiny room, there's no way you could bring it. No, and if you do bring it, the movers are standing there holding this couch, it doesn't fit. Now the movers have to put it back on the truck, drive it back over to your place. It's gonna make that day so much more stressful. Absolutely. And then you have to pay for that movers time too. Yeah, absolutely. And I know in my work and dealing with families who are experiencing things going on, know, the downsizing, right sizing journey, there's a lot of emotions that come into play. I'm just curious from your perspective, what are some of the common things that you see in your work and helping folks right size and. Kind of what kind of advice would you give to families who seem to have, you know, a lot of emotions at play, whether it's grief or relief or, you know, sadness or shame and blame? I don't know. There just seems to be more emotions involved in a move, both for the person who has to be moved and for their families. I know. And you know, the only way out of a situation like that is through it, unfortunately. It's just like grief. And so to be gentle with yourself, if you are the adult child of an older adult who's moving, you get to be, you have the honor of being the hero of that story, I think. And that is a call that to rise up in this difficult time of life, because no matter, it is difficult. to see your parent downsizing and moving, but it's even more difficult for them, right? Because every single thing about their life will change once they move and only a portion of your life will change once they move. And so every story needs a hero, it might as well be you. And I love this idea that, you our parents have helped us through so many transitions, times of transition in our life. Now it's time for us to help them, even if that means gritting your teeth. and biting your tongue the whole way through, right? And so then you have to make sure that you're doing some things to manage your level of stress because I get it, I don't have perfect family dynamics in my family and that's another reason why I would probably be more inclined to hire an outside agency to come in and help us because I think that would just bring the energy down and it would make it easier on everyone. But just making sure that you are focused on their needs. Now that doesn't mean that, you know, if they want to bring 10 pounds of flour and try to fit it into their five pound sack, that doesn't mean you let them. We always try to tell our clients, hey, our job is to make sure you're not surprised. And if you're trying to bring too much stuff, we want to tell you this will not all fit. And so I don't want you to be surprised by that. And I don't want you to have to pay that extra mover bill to bring all of those things back. So we always recommend getting our client moved and their most important things with them. Then if you've got the luxury of a few weeks or a few months to empty out whatever is left in the house, the next step is to divide out whatever is left. If adult children, family members or friends want to take anything, then they can do some of that. What I hear all the time from people, from older adults is my kids don't want my stuff, right? And it's true, they don't. They don't want all of your stuff. They do want some of your stuff. And so maybe again, you set a limit on that and you say to yourself, I'm gonna bring two boxes of keepsakes with me. And so then you're saying to your parents, if that's who you're downsizing, these are the best things in the home that mean the most to me and I'm going to keep them. Then after the family has taken what they want, then it's time to sell what you can. If you're having a garage sale, you can hire an estate liquidator, have an estate sale, then donate what's left and then remove the trash. And then the house is empty. And to remember that this house sitting empty is not fulfilling its purpose, right? This house can be the home for a new family to make new memories. It was such a fantastic home for us. Now let's pass it along and let a new family make more memories. Just because we let go of something doesn't negate its importance in our life. And that's one of the things I talk about in Keep the Memories, Not the Stuff is that stuff and memories and love are not the same thing. They are three different things. And just because we let go of something doesn't mean it wasn't important to us. Right. I heard this quote the other day. We are under no obligation to be the same person we were. five years ago or one year ago or 10 minutes ago, right? Just because something was important to us at one time doesn't mean it has to be important to us forever because life changes, things change. It's the circle of life. And of course we can't take any of it with us. Right, absolutely. Yeah, I think the issue of space, it's so personal that it even surprises me, which I don't know why it surprised me because I do house calls. So I go into people's homes and I see their keepsakes and their photos on the wall. But when I actually go into my parents' home right now, you know, after my mom passed away, it's really a place where I find myself not wanting to go. because it just jogs more memories of her being sick in that house. I'm more than happy to, you know, probably I'm one of those adult children who's more than happy to move on to, you know, another family who can enjoy that home. But my dad's not quite there yet, but that's fine. I'll let her make that decision. But I want it, before we close today, I just wanted to ask, What other resources or anything else you want to share with the audience today? Sure, yeah, I wanna remind folks of that website that I mentioned for finding a senior move manager near you. That's nasm.org. It's N-A-S-M-M.org. If you need someone to really walk alongside you through this process in your area, that's where you can find someone. And then my resources on my website. There's some paid resources like the books that I've written. I have an online course. And then there's also a bunch of free resources as well, downloadable worksheets. There's a family meeting template if you feel like it's time for a family meeting. All kinds of resources over at EasyWriteSizing.com. And then I'm on Facebook and Instagram at EasyWriteSizing as well. That's great. Thank you so much for sharing all that. And I'll link those websites into the show notes as well. But thank you for joining us, Janine. And it's great to talk about this really important thing that most of us have to go through. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Dr. Me. It's been great. Thank you.