Why You Need NPS Surveys!

Join Irit Eizips, CCO and CEO of CSM Practice, for a session with Himanshu Garg, an expert in customer success. This podcast episode focuses on the innovative application of personalized Net Promoter Score (NPS) surveys and their role in transforming customer engagement and success across diverse industries.

🔍 Key Takeaways:

- Examination of how customized NPS surveys cater to distinct customer personas.
- Discussion on aligning customer satisfaction metrics with overarching business objectives for reciprocal benefits.
- Analysis of the impact of personalized NPS surveys on customer retention.
- Strategies for tailoring NPS surveys to address specific challenges and requirements within various sectors.

Tune into this episode on the CSM Practice Podcast to gain detailed insights into integrating personalized NPS surveys into your customer success framework.

WATCH the episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/HBJKsgx7Uso

#CSMPracticePodcast #CustomerSuccess #Educational #NPS #StrategicAlignment #IritEizips #HimanshuGarg #Podcast #APAC #CustomerEngagement

Himanshu Garg is a celebrated figure in Customer Success, particularly in the APAC region. Recognized as one of the Top 100 Customer Success Strategists in 2021 and 2023, his contributions have significantly shaped the field. Known for his innovative approach, particularly in personalized Net Promoter Score (NPS) surveys, Himanshu has revolutionized customer engagement strategies and set new benchmarks in customer-centric excellence. His leadership and strategic insights continue to inspire and influence the evolving landscape of customer success.

🔗 Connect with Himanshu via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/himanshugarggarg/

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Additional Resources:

⏬ Download: 10 Rules to Building Trust with Clients

🎥 Watch: Unlocking Customer Success Strategies - Strategies for Industry Based Organizations

🎥 Watch: From NPS Surveys to Growing Advocacy|SurveySparrow

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Transcript

00:00 Hello everyone. Welcome to our CSM practice YouTube channel and podcasts. You are on yet another episode with the wonderful human shoe guard.
00:15 This is a second interview with me today. I'm super excited to have him on the show. We're going to unveil what he's going to talk about in just the second and those of you haven't watched the first interview.
00:26 I highly recommend going back and listening to it. For those of you who have never met the man, he's the customer success thought leader and top 100 customer success strategies in both 2021 and 2023.
00:41 So I mentioned thank you so much for joining me again. Thank you with it for having me and providing another opportunity to discuss with you and brainstorm.
00:49 I want to talk about personalized NPS, meaning NPS, surveys by persona. Maybe tell us a little bit about what does that mean exactly in your world?
01:00 Like at a high level, obviously. Okay, we send a little bit of a different NPS to different personas or does it mean that you send the NPS each quarter to a different personas?
01:10 What does it mean? How does that manifest itself? I'm sure we all have heard the word value a lot, at least you must have heard it one million times by now people talking about value if you are in a customer's access order date.
01:22 But I have gone ahead one step or a couple steps ahead and try to decode and decipher what this value actually is.
01:28 Everybody's talking at the high level 30,000 above the ground, oh, we need to showcase value. We need to have value driven conversations, know how to propose value to our customers.
01:38 But hang on, what is value first of all? That's where the person obeys the NPS actually was born. When I started this value thing.
01:46 I factorize this into two categories. One is customer value and one is company value. A value what my customers are looking for.
01:54 And of course, mean as a company providing the product, I also have in need of some value as well. So when we actually decipher value into these two categories, customer value and company value, it opens up the Pandora's boss.
02:07 When I say customer value, what exactly the customers want? They just sign up for some them that they're looking for me, are we actually talking in those terms with our customer every time we are talking to them as to what they're looking for and that's going to be value for the customer.
02:23 What about us the companies that makes the product and sells these products to the customers? There's some company value for us as well and we need to focus on that as well from customer success point of, for us what could be value in customer success?
02:34 It would be retention, growth and more business. So if I'm able to achieve this from my customer, I have my value as a company.
02:41 And if I have to do that, I have to first deliver the outcomes that my customer is actually looking for.
02:46 That is value for me. Customer value and company value. If we break it down into these two parts, and then you go back to the drawing board and then plan your engagements, see how your playbooks are working for you, how your NPS was doing until now and things like that, you will actually start realizing
03:02 that there's so much more of what we were actually doing and we can actually reshape a lot of things from what we felt was running smoothly for us, which wouldn't be the case if you actually decipher the value into these two categories.
03:14 Now, when we did this, we felt the need that as soon as post sales engagement begins, there are multiple people that as a company you interact with on the customer side, maybe the end users for going to use your product on the company side.
03:28 Then there could be a team or department that actually helps bring it all together, teachers sit along with you and make it go live, so there could be all your tech consultants, architects, solution engineers on the customer side as well and they are also your customers at the end of the day or stakeholders
03:43 at least. And of course, the people with whom you sign the designing authorities, the CXOs and the leadership on the business side, any company for that matter, big small medium, they would have at least three to four different personas or stakeholders on the customer side.
03:56 When we looked at our data and when we figured out that everything is going right, but why are we still struggling to renew or why are we still struggling to propose value to our customers or why is it such a hard thing to actually get renewals?
04:10 Why is it not smooth or why is it not straightforward? It's not smooth. And then we looked at our NPS and the NPS seemed to be okay.
04:17 It was good. So we were not able to actually decipher as to why we are not able to have straightforward renewals or retention for that matter.
04:27 Because even the NPS is not giving you a lot of stuff. Now when I actually sat back and then realized the NPS that we were sending to was only to the people that the customer's success team is actually talking on day in and day out basis on a regular basis.
04:42 And of course, you have a wrap over them. You have a relationship built with them and they are going to give you a decent NPS if not bad or they might tell you on a phone call or an email.
04:51 But you're not actually getting the real picture because the multiple stakeholders we were not touching them at all. We were not hearing them or we were not feeling or understanding how they're feeling or what their experience.
05:02 Maybe their onboarding was pathetic. It took a lot of time for them to go live. There was a lot of back and forth.
05:08 A lot of tech issues. But once we were live, we thought that's okay. Let's not even try to fix that piece and let every customer have a bad experience when they have one board.
05:18 As long as we know the adoption phase is going to be nice because my customer success managers are very smart and they'll get them into working and help metrics and all that.
05:26 So we always felt that the adoption journey was great. So nothing else is broken. So that's where I immediately stopped everything in terms of engagements and NPS activities, meeting customers in person for almost a month, and we went back to the drawing board, and I said, I want to completely revamp
05:44 the way we were actually engaging customers. And that's when the personal best NPS was born. Okay, so you had some churn reasons.
05:52 The NPS was of no help, but you knew you needed to change something in the journey so that you can fix the churn and increase renewals.
06:01 Along the way you thought, okay, so for me to know what to fix in the journey, I want to be able to rely on the NPS survey.
06:09 The problem is right now is that it's too generic. It doesn't give me insights. Yeah. So what did you do?
06:18 Even if it was detail, but it was only coming from one set of audience only. So that did not help us in providing better experience to our customers or to understand what was broken because they were not a part of the initial implementation phase at all.
06:32 This NPS over that was being sent was also for the people on the customer side who were actually just using the product that did not even have a clue of how difficult it was or how easy it was to actually integrate and go live.
06:43 So what we did was we first of all decided that every department that is customer facing after force sales will have an NPS as a KPI and it's just not customer success.
06:55 It's going to be tech support, it's going to be solution steam, it's going to be the implementation and integration team as well.
07:01 So every team that talks to customer once the sale is done any force sales engagement team not necessarily only the customer success in different organizations as I said there are multiple teams that are there.
07:12 Some organizations also have a renewal team as well because customers success they feel and believe that they should only concentrate on onboarding option and renewals should be a completely different ballgame.
07:21 So that team also should have an NPS as a KPI. So first of all, redefined the KPI that NPS is a mandatory KPI for everyone.
07:27 90% response rate is mandatory because what happens is that you might send surveys, but if the coverage is not good, then it's not going to help you much.
07:35 Like if you present, if you have 100 customers and only 20, you reply, what's the point of even doing that NPS?
07:41 So coverage became the second most important thing for us. So one was having NPS for every customer And coverage became a metric that you need to ensure that we get more and more coverage.
07:51 So if I target 90, at least I will hit 70, that's the idea. So is that 90 people from a specific account or 90 accounts that a CSM might manage?
08:03 So 90 accounts, out of 100, if you're 100 accounts, then it should be at least 90% of the accounts should give you survey response.
08:10 And then we worked with marketing team and other different sales team as well as to how we can increase the coverage part.
08:16 But sticking to the topic, then what we did, let's say CSM practice is a customer. Now in CSM practice, so my implementation integration team will have takeholders, that the person is working with from a company.
08:28 So we goes to that particular stakeholder. Then there is a CSM at my company organization who's working with you. We could be directly working with you or or your end user.
08:37 So the survey needs to go to them as well. Then the survey will obviously go to the ultimate stakeholder who's the decision maker, or the one who signs the check or someone at the CXO level.
08:47 So there has to be a survey for that person as well. And many companies don't do that actually. Because the field, they have some sponsor level engagement going on or something like that.
08:56 So there's no need for me to actually send a survey and bother them. But actually, when we did this, I know I have service being sent to three different personas or some cases for different personas.
09:06 For the same account, imagine the kind of treasure you're going to get back and will it all be sane? Will it all be different?
09:13 Now that was the Pandora's box that we were actually waiting for, until now we were only getting feedback only from one type of user or one type of stakeholder, but now when we're getting inputs from three or four different type of stakeholders of the same account.
09:26 Now that gives me a different perspective and picture about the journey and the customer experience and actually what's going on in reality on that account.
09:34 That helps me not only to mitigate a lot of things in the journey itself but also understand and address those proactively with my customers.
09:42 Suppose I have received all good from the end users and from the implementation teams, stakeholders, but I have some not so okay from a business leader.
09:54 Definitely there is a lack of connect within that company itself, within that customer organization itself that gives me that story.
10:01 Maybe the business leader is not connected with his own team members or his own department, because he's on the top and there may be 10 different departments that he's working with.
10:09 And it could be the vice versa. The end business leader could be happy with you or could say, yeah, everything's fine, no problem.
10:15 But the other stakeholders have actually shown you the mirror. So now that gives me a lot of opportunity and room for improvement, that's why I call it as treasure, because for me as a success leader, I think that is what keeps me going.
10:27 When I get a lot of different flavors for the same account, and then I sit with my team and discuss as to how we can make one single narrative out of this and change everybody's perspective about it.
10:37 Then we get one single narrative after let's say two or three what is when we send out the same survey again to different stakeholders now are we getting a single story back or not for are we still getting different stories.
10:48 Second aspect of that was you category we have done this categorization on three different levels. One is industry categorization. Suppose if I as an organization have 1,000 customers and I think everybody should stop sending the same survey to all the 1,000 customers it doesn't work that way because
11:05 in that 1,000 customers I might have 200 customers who are like e-commerce type of companies, then I might have 500 companies or 500 customers who are pure products as tech companies, then I might have about 100 odd companies who are not from the IT tech product, they may be something that's real type
11:21 of companies, brick and mortar shops that you might have based on the product that you're catering to and things like that.
11:27 So we first tried to divide and dissect our own customer based based on industry, what it lies there and then create a vertical specific NPS survey because what works for an e-com type of a company will not work for an industrial type of a company if you send the same question because their needs would
11:42 be different though they're using the same product everybody's using the same product but the reason why an X company bought and versus a Z company bought are totally do different things so my survey also needs to be personalized and be specific to what that industry is what the company is all about 
11:57 so that was the first angle that we took of what we're utilizing and categorizing our industry of our customer base.
12:02 The second thing that we did was company sizes within the same industry, let's say out of the thousand customers I have 500 as product tech SaaS companies.
12:12 But again, not all 500 out of the same size, some could be small startup, some could be medium, and some could be large, super enterprise companies.
12:19 So again, change your NPS based on the company sizes as well, because it only gives you more and more details and insights when you sit back and then when you do the slice and dice part and when you want to analyze patterns, that's the whole fun part.
12:31 So that was the second categorization that we did. And of course, the third categorization, which I already told you about different stakeholders and users that we might encounter in a post sales journey of the customer side.
12:42 So these are the three different categorizations of persona identification that I actually help me identifying and devise it. When you say I personalize the survey, what do you mean by that?
12:53 Can you expand? Did that mean that you had different questions or just a matter of speech to say when I got the results first of all I was making sure I have this variety of different industries and different size clients and different personas answering, but I asked all of them the same questions or
13:13 different questions. It would be different questions and in point number one and two you can also add a call or a roll.
13:20 So it's industry size and the type of stakeholder, those are three different calculations that we did. For example, I'll start with the business leader, survey that we were sending to the CXOs or the signing authority or the one who actually is the final decision-making.
13:32 So for the survey that we wanted to send out to them is because in our QBRs or in our EBRs, in our executive business review, maybe at least twice a year, we would definitely talk to them as well, or maybe if I'm in person meetings with all my customers.
13:44 So I might meet them at least once in a year, personally as well, apart from the one or two times that I would meet them online.
13:50 A survey for them is also very important, but the need was clear for us. But now what are we going to ask them?
13:55 The things that we wanted to ask them was like, how is it doing business with us? I know it's more of a salesy thing, but do you think renewing with us is easier?
14:03 Is it difficult? How do we fit into your budgets and how do we fit into your vision in the longer run and things like that?
14:09 That nobody else can answer the end users can answer that neither your technical stakeholders on the customer's side can answer that.
14:15 So it's very important to understand that how do we fit in with their vision? Maybe you sent a survey at the beginning of the year and maybe you're sending one the later part of the year, we can always ask that with all these evolving business changes are we still aligned in your strategy, some of these
14:30 type of questions for the business leader and they actually feel happy because when they receive question like this rather than how likely are you going to refer me to your friends and colleagues just so much for them to take two minutes out and actually answer that question that we are in line with 
14:44 their vision or not or we are in fitting well with their strategy or not. So they will actually answer that question and it is treasure for you because if he says yes and the answers are sentence or two in the fixed section, you can always utilize that you are advantage in the next communications with
14:59 anybody that you are talking to in the customer side. Now coming to a different stakeholder, as I told, I had the integration implementation team that's the first thing talks to the tech side of the people on the customer side to integrate the product and make them go live.
15:11 We touched upon developer experience over there. When I said developer experience, how easy is our tech stack for you to actually implement an integrate?
15:17 Do you think we have a tech debt at our side? Do you think we are using some old technologies? Do you think there could be new ways of implementing our product?
15:26 Do you think is there a new SD care on API available that you are aware of? Do you think our documentation is to the mark that explains you how we integrate or do you always need someone to come on a call and help you to integrate and things like that?
15:38 How many times when you speak to leaders they actually think in that detail about developer experience? That person on the customer side is also your stakeholder.
15:45 If his experience, which is the first person who is integrating your product to make customer go live, because they also have a skin in the game.
15:53 It's not that you sold the product and everything is in your hands to make them go live. Customer also has some skin in the game, but are you making the life better?
16:01 Can they integrate with the breeze and just go live in no time? So that part is super critical. That actually was a game changer for us, because when we were talking to the business leaders with our customers and telling them that, hey, you know, are your tech stakeholders are super happy with us.
16:16 They felt that it was a breeze to integrate. And they actually gave us a lot of valuable insights which help us improve our tech stack.
16:22 We listened to their suggestions and we went back to our product and engineering team and we actually told them, hey, the new trends in the industry that's emerged.
16:29 And I think we need to start looking at those if we want to ensure our time to go live is reduced.
16:35 So when we talk in that language with the business leaders, the business leaders feel proud about themselves as well that's taking the right decision and working with the right company and vetting on the right company basically.
16:46 So if you opened up a lot of revenue for us when we started this persona-based NPS. So I just gave you some of the different flavors of the questions that I also devise that should be going out to these different stakeholders.
16:58 That's awesome. I think this truly explains a lot. What do you mean by personalized NPS survey? And so anyone that listens to this video, if you already have an NPS survey, or we should call it an annual customer survey that includes the NPS question, make sure that you personalize and think through 
17:22 what questions should you be asking each persona, or would you ask different questions for specific industries, or if the size of the account is smaller or larger, because they might have different concerns, different means.
17:39 And I think what you're saying here and you're not saying it, like I'm just like what I'm reading between the lines is that when you do that, the customer feels like this survey was actually meant for me.
17:52 My partner, my software partners, cares about my industry, cares about things that matter to my role, cares about things that are relevant to my size, or even my stage in the journey of becoming a customer with them.
18:08 I think that's brilliant. So it's more work initially for us as a company to all of a sudden come out with like multiple flavors of the surveys, and it's much more work even to analyze by golly the amount of insights and the relevancy of the insights is you then the power in the CSC to say, well, then
18:33 , now we know what they want. And we can say, there are ICP and we wanted to dial it up and be so much better than our competitors.
18:42 We have everything that we need because the survey is actually tailored to get us what we need from that specific cohort.
18:50 So well done on that. I love that concept, personalized, NDS or customer annual surveys. I'm gonna teach you to all my clients going forward.
18:59 This is brilliant. It's so simple like how do we not even think about it? We're always concerned, oh my gosh, how many questions do I have to absolutely ask?
19:08 And I need to find questions that would be applicable to everyone and maybe I have some logic applied if you answer this.
19:15 Going to show you a little bit that, you're saying, you what? Forget about that. It's so much easier to come clean and say, let's think about three to five people that wear that hat in this industry and this says, what questions would I ask them?
19:29 Because when you're trying to develop one for all with some tweaks, it's never as good. True that, I think you put it much better way than what I was trying to explain to you.
19:40 So thanks for helping me out on that Not it though. Okay, so you started doing that. You created multiple survey formats for different personas, different industries and when that was probably such a big success, you're like, all right, let's even do it by customer size and see what else can we extract
19:57 and amplify the CX and I wanted to ask you first of all, how long did the process take you from the moment you had this a ha moment.
20:05 Well, I have this term problem. I have these issues with the customer experience to the moment that somebody allowed you to do that.
20:13 I bet there were some nice air said No, it's a lot where we don't do that here to the moment.
20:18 Did you actually send it and was able to see an impact on Charm? How long did it take from idea to execution to changes it was not something that happened overnight to be honest And that's why I owe myself as a self-proclaimed rebel in the customer success industry because I like to challenge the status
20:36 quo a lot. But I think I've been very fortunate enough to have some nice top management who actually is very customer centric.
20:44 It took me at least three quarters. By the third quarter, we started seeing a lot of positive results, at least we started having a lot of dead conversations being alive all of a sudden.
20:54 And that was a win in itself for us because a lot of customers were not responding to service because they were tired of responding to the same five questions.
21:01 Like how likely are you going to recommend me? How likely you think my CSM was capable enough to help you?
21:06 I mean, of course, they are capable enough. And that's why they are in this role. Can we get to the meat of the matter?
21:12 And when we started asking those questions, like you said, the customers started feeling and the stakeholders and different states started feeling important, they felt like, wow, I spent 45 days integrating this product from my company, and there are 500 people in my organization using this XYZ product
21:27 . But now I have received a survey that actually talks about my challenges, my improvement areas that I suggested for them and things like that.
21:34 So now we started getting more conversations going on for us. Any conversation with the customer when it's getting into a positive direction always helps you to have that second value which I told you the company value.
21:45 Retention, more business and growth, it opens doors for those avenues. And they become your advocates, your champions, influencers, and then they can pass on your needs to different departments or heads.
21:55 Next level of opportunities is sky is the limit. We definitely saw a lot of value in terms of a lot of bit conversations being alive, immediately from the second quarter itself.
22:05 Third quarter is when we actually saw a lot of unsaid things, usually customers, when they don't want to renew, they just avoid you, they don't want to talk to you, or they just say that right now, it's not in their strategy radar or things like that.
22:19 When we send these targeted questions, we were able to then re-work on our playbooks, of what sort of emails I need to send to these people for renewal as well.
22:27 Rather than just sending, hey, it's 90 days and I'm just trying to renew here's the d***, look at the value prop and let me know if we can renew.
22:34 Those conversations are old now, we need to evolve. And AI with charge equity, I mean, you don't even need someone to do that.
22:40 You can just set a clon job at the back and it'll keep shooting emails. But then what's the point of human brains and how you can tackle these situations?
22:48 So now with these distressor that I had, so I told you I got three or four different stories from three different stakeholders of the same account.
22:56 I'm able to stitch that to my advantage and now send an email. Now they are compelled to respond. Yes, no, maybe something at least.
23:03 They are going to compelled to say that, hey, your tech team says good things about us, your end users are saying good things.
23:09 So tell me, actually, what do you think and why are you saying that it's not making sense? Let me hear it and see if I can change that or maybe something that we were not able to showcase to you.
23:18 We'll probably showcase that to you. So give me that 30 minutes on your watch. The way we started doing customer engagements completely changed, all of a sudden.
23:26 Most of the times, my CSMs is to say that you want to, we've followed up three times, I've sent them three emails, I've made them to calls, nothing happening.
23:33 But now, there is so much more meat for my team to actually write those emails, spend that quality time and putting those important things that came out from the survey and when I read it, and of course, going to say something about it or reply something to that.
23:46 So the CS team was completely geared up excited with this new exercise. So one internally helped my team to be very charged and say that wow this change is Very nice.
23:56 It's a welcoming change. That's a win in itself moving away from mundane monotonous beats in drone kind of a work customer is of course As I said that conversation started becoming alive Renewal conversations were more meaningful now than just saying okay send me the proposal and I'll sign it up for 
24:11 you But rather the customers now interested. Oh, how did you change the life of my human end users? They're more interested to talk to you and then sign the contract It just opened up avenues in terms of utilizing those feedback data in an or advantage in customer communication and engagement.
24:26 What it held in the third quarter, since I was in the FinTech and in India, we are the biggest FinTech company when I rolled this out.
24:32 No other FinTech in India was able to benchmark India and we started doing that. We said that, hey, out of 1000 customers, e-commerce companies, this is the benchmark.
24:44 Usually, what is the benchmark for a SaaS NPS 4850 today? It's pretty good actually. If get more than that, it's a bonus.
24:51 Yeah. Anything in the range to 40 to 50, right? But do you actually think has someone even part of challenging that status quo itself?
24:58 Who the hell has decided that 45 or 46 is going to be the right NPS score? I don't buy that argument or that explanation at all, because for me, when I started bench marketing, my e-commerce companies were giving me a certain score.
25:12 And my tech IT product, SaaS companies were giving me a totally different score. The average was not pull in south pull apart.
25:19 For me, I was very convinced that if my e-commerce company say that let's say some number for example 42. So anything in the range of 38 to 42 is going to be working only for this industry and vertical type, that's it period.
25:31 I'm not going to hold accountable for my CS team that why the NPS score is not great. So because the industry benchmark for that is this.
25:38 So that is another thing that we were able to achieve out of this whole exercise is that we were able to benchmark NPS service thoroughly and you can have a lot of validation now with data for different patents that we were able to gather and show a lot of customer success leaders and strategists in 
25:52 the world will now start implementing this. I'm sure they will redefine the NPS score, what should be the benchmark for different verticals and company size and things like that and it will just make the life more easier, it will make it more strategic and it will just make it simple and straightforward
26:06 . Wow, what a session. You seem to be greening the whole time because I like spot on everything A thousand, thank you for coming in, sharing, explaining, I think this should be like such a big aha moment for anybody's listening today.
26:25 For those who listen, if you have these bland conversations with clients, you have some big clients that are stuck. This is a powerful tool to get meaningful conversations with clients to get clients that are completely we have this engaged, get back into that conversation.
26:45 And so if you need help with that, I'm going to share his length in reach out to him. And if he's busy, you can always call me.
26:53 I'll help you out. We have amazing customer success coaching programs for tech executives and technology companies to get them from wherever they are.
27:02 To 120% net retention rate, in a scalable way. And this is one of the tools you can bet your life.
27:09 We're going to teach you exactly how to do and make sure you execute it at the top level. Dimancho, thank you so much.
27:17 This was absolutely amazing. One of my favorites interviews. Such a joy. Now, totally my pleasure and thanks for having me.
27:26 I always enjoy talking to you. If you like this interview everyone, as much as I did, please give it a like, subscribe to the channel, click the notification button so you don't miss any additional interviews.
27:39 This year is going to be the bomb. This interview, I suspect, is going to be so popular. I know I'm going to share it with all of my clients.
27:47 It amounts you. Thank you, everybody. I'll see you at the next video.