Perimenopause Symptoms Pregnancy Care and Pelvic Floor Fixes, with Nikki Rowan, OBGYN: Episode 381

Hormones get blamed for everything, but the truth is more interesting and a lot more useful. I’m Robin Black, and I’m joined by my cousin Nikki Rowan, an OB-GYN with nearly two decades of experience, to talk straight about gynecology, pregnancy, perimenopause, menopause symptoms, and what actually helps when your body feels “off” but your lab work looks “normal.”

We dig into why hormone testing can be misleading, how estrogen and other hormones naturally swing throughout the day and month, and why puberty and perimenopause can feel like emotional whiplash. Nikki also explains how weight changes can affect ovulation and menstrual cycles, why endometrial ablation is a bleeding treatment that may not last forever when done young, and how surprise pregnancies can happen right when you think you’re finally “getting healthy.”

Then we get practical about common issues people suffer with in silence, especially stress urinary incontinence. Nikki breaks down pelvic floor physical therapy, what an evaluation looks like, how biofeedback works, and why doing the at-home exercises can be a game changer within weeks. We also talk birth and anesthesia, including hypnobirthing, epidural vs spinal anesthesia, when you can’t safely get one, and a clear explanation of placenta previa and hemorrhage risk. We end with an honest take on prenatal vitamins, pregnancy weight gain, breastfeeding benefits, and why formula is not a moral failing.

If this helped you feel more informed and less alone, subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find it. What topic should we go deeper on next: perimenopause symptoms, pelvic floor therapy, or birth options?

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Have a lovely day and stay blessed

Transcript

Welcome And Meet The OB-GYN

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome back, listeners. I'm Robin Black, and this is It's All About Healing Podcast. We have a very special guest with us, my cousin, Nikki Rowan. She's an OBGYN, and today we're going to be speaking about gynecology, pregnancy, menopause, and hormones. But first, Nikki, tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Um, I don't know where to start. I grew up, I guess, in Milwaukee and went to school in Rhode Island and then worked primarily in Florida, did my residency there, stayed on in essentially private practice for like 20 years or so, and just recently have been transitioning to doing travel medicine. So I'm getting to go around the country and do a few days here, a few days there, important, keep my bills paid. But also, you know, with the current political climate, practicing in Florida has been a little difficult.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

So wow. Okay, and so what originally first got you wanting to go into the medical field?

From Private Practice To Travel Medicine

SPEAKER_00 1:06

I think I was a little bit of I don't know. Uh I don't know what the right word is, but I was a little bit, I didn't like to be told what to do, you know. And I think originally it was more so that my teachers didn't really have much expectation of me, I think, and didn't think that I could do things like this. And so I was really just doing it to make them mad in the beginning. And then I just, I mean, I guess it probably realistically was a greater plan, you know, that I didn't see at the time, but that fortunately pushed me to do something that I really love doing, you know, and I can't imagine doing something different.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Wow. And so how long have you been been an OBG by end now?

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Um, I finished residency almost 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

So oh my goodness. I'm sure you've seen some things. So yes, as far as being a travel OBG by end, like what does that consist of?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

So I contract out to different locations and I agree to do a certain amount of time. So I it's not like a full-time job, basically, and I'm just filling in, you know, for let's say a doctor needs to go on maternity leave or or if they're having if they have some vacancies, they have more demand than they have doctors, but are having trouble hiring somebody permanently, then I can kind of fill the gap while they're doing their real search. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Okay. Yeah. Is there an allotted time that you're supposed to be there, or can it just kind of differ once you arrive?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

It differs depending on what kind of contract you set up. So currently I have a contract in Indianapolis and I told them I'll do four days every month, and I have another one in Wisconsin that's also four days a month. Um, and the rest of the time I'm off, which I've been enjoying.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

So and when you're off, are you back in Florida or are you just traveling where you would like to go?

SPEAKER_00 3:26

I've been, you know, in Florida some, and then I have been doing some travel around the world.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

I know, I think we've been everywhere. That's so amazing.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Gosh, that is

Travel Joys And A Surprise Love

SPEAKER_00 3:40

been very fun. I am surprised to say this because I was not looking forward to going, but Japan has hands down been my favorite. I did it just because that's where the kids wanted to go and I was dreading it, but I loved it so much that I already booked to go back by myself without them. When are you going back? I'm gonna go in November.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Oh, that is so exciting! Which part of Japan?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

This time I'm mostly just gonna stay in Tokyo. I might do a day trip um to the mountains or something, but you know, the kids weren't really into shopping or you know, some of the more adult stuff. So let me just go and redo this for me.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

But that I get, I definitely understand

Why Hormones Feel So Unstable

SPEAKER_01 4:40

that. So with some of the questions as far as this women, I we okay all over the kind of we're all over the board, but yes, I guess a lot of the questions that I want to know is kind of about our hormone imbalance. Like what can cause a lot of it? Is it age? Is it medication? Like, what can it be? Because I realize the older I'm getting, especially now that I'm entering in my 40s, definitely have some days to where they're a little more eatable. So that's kind of what I want to start off with is hormones.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Okay. Well, I think it's it's very complicated. They're definitely, you know, we all have lots of hormones, some of which are kind of considered female hormones. And the way they function in our body is a lot like a symphony with a lot of different instruments playing. And so just like with a symphony, each one of those instruments or each one of our hormones has a separate part to play, and it needs to be done precisely. And if it doesn't, if each one of those parts is not doing what it's supposed to do, it can kind of mess up the entire final product. And so it is definitely very easy to have things kind of be a little bit off, you know, because there are so many different things involved that interact with each other, and you know, one thing being off will change the entire interaction. But I think it's also, you know, a lot of times people will think that they want to get hormone levels checked, and it may not necessarily be super helpful. Um certainly there are some people who things are just extremely off, you know, and for them, checking the levels probably is helpful to figure out what that is, but the vast majority of people that we check levels on, the levels are technically normal because the range of normal is huge, yeah, you know, and so and there's supposed to be a lot of variation in your levels. So the hormone, you know, if we're looking at estrogen, for example, the level of estrogen that I have needs to be different during different times of day, during different times of month, you know, and so when we check, it's really hard to say for that particular moment in time, was it right or was it or was it off? Right. And as long as it's in the ballpark, we say, well, it's normal.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yeah. So does that have a lot to do with that could that kind of go for the mood swings that we go through, or is that totally different?

SPEAKER_00 7:48

It could it could maybe contribute a little bit to mood swings. Definitely there's more fluctuation in hormones, like at the age of puberty and also perimenopausally, you know, whereas in between, like let's say in your 20s and 30s, your fluctuation is a little more fine-tuned. But when you're in puberty and your body's just trying to get adjusted, the hormones fluctuate a lot. And then also by the time of perimenopause, your body's kind of just struggling to keep it together and and it overshoots or undershoots a lot, right? Um, and so that kind of tracks for why those are some of the moodiest times of life, also. But if you think about it, you know, in puberty, you have skin changes and you know, smelly sweat and um, you know, super sleepy all the time and moody, and you know, a lot of those very similar breast tenderness, you know, more cramping with your periods, a lot of those symptoms that happen in the early teen years are reoccurring again as you get closer to menopause.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

That makes a lot of sense now that I think

Ablation Weight Loss And Ovulation Shifts

SPEAKER_01 9:16

about it. Because with me, it's a little bit different because I mean, this might be sharing a lot, but I had an attention, right? Uh-huh, or I had weight loss surgery, uh-huh. Everything came back. How does that even happen? Like, do you know that?

SPEAKER_00 9:31

So ablation is uh just the physical management of bleeding. And so sometimes for women that have that done very young, sometimes it's just not gonna last, you know. And so, you know, if you have a woman who gets it when she's 45, it will almost certainly last her till menopause. If you have a woman who gets it at age 30, it's probably not gonna last till menopause.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Another thing is that a lot of times weight can change the way your hormones are and affect your periods, and frequently will make you maybe go longer stretches without periods, but then when you when they do come, can tend to be very long, very heavy. Um, and so it's possible that, you know, if you had a break of bleeding after the ablation, then it could have been partially due to the ablation and partially due to, you know, not ovulating regularly with weight. And then when your weight comes down, your hormones start to regulate a little more and have more predictability where you would have more, you know, more frequent periods.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Oh, okay. That makes a lot of sense. Gosh, the is so difficult.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Which is why, you know, if you think about it, a lot of times, so when you're heavier, that can interrupt ovulation. And ideally, in a perfect world, people would ovulate once a month. But a lot of times when you're heavier, you know, maybe you only instead of every 28 days, maybe you ovulate every 35 days. Maybe some people might only ovulate twice a year when they're heavier. But when you start losing weight, it doesn't even have to be like a dramatic amount of weight necessarily. Usually, like maybe 10% of your body weight or so will wake your ovaries up and make them ovulate more regularly. And so it's like the classic story of people buckling down, diet exercise, just start losing weight, drop down a size of clothes and boom, pregnant because you're ovulating. You know, you're you were able to maybe be a little bit less on top of birth control things when you weren't ovulating frequently, but when you start ovulating regularly, it catches you off guard. And next thing you know, you're pregnant, now you're gaining pregnancy weight, you know. That happens to people all the time. Yeah. So you know, thank you for that one.

Incontinence Help Starts With Pelvic Floor

SPEAKER_01 12:17

So as far as menopause or perimenopause, should I say, and those symptoms, like I know incontinence is a really big one that a lot of women are struggling with. How what is the best way? I mean, I know that there's medication out there, but the ones who just kind of are struggling with it, with the medication and without the medication, what are what are some things that they can do for that?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

So there are lots of different types of incontinence. Um, and depending upon what type you have kind of determines whether it will respond best to medication or to, you know, physical therapy or to surgical repairs. But I think it's very common. Most people that are having, I shouldn't maybe most is not fair, but lots of people who are having incontinence are have at least a portion of what's called stress incontinence, which has to do with how strong the muscles of the pelvic floor are. And, you know, so this is the type of incontinence that happens when you cough, laugh, sneeze, okay, you know, bounce, where you're fine if you're if everything is, you know, sitting and you know, and nothing, nothing crazy is happening. But then when your muscles have to hold the urine despite increasing pressure from whatever you're doing, they just aren't strong enough to hold the urine in. And that responds extremely well to physical therapy. There probably is a little bit of an age component to it, just the same way a lot of our muscles don't work quite as well as they used to as we get older. But I think what we're learning, you know, is that a lot of women really start experiencing it what much younger than we ever thought, you know. I think people used to have shame, you know, around it and didn't want to talk about it and kind of hit it. And and so people really had no idea how common it really is.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Okay. And I mean, so what is do you know what the physical therapy consists of for like what uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

So ideally you would go to like a physical therapist who specializes in the pelvic floor because you know you want an expert, basically. You know, you don't want the same person that's gonna help your wrist get better to be, you know, yeah, playing around in your vagina. So um, and you do, you know, some of this is kind of, you know, it's sensitive tissue, and you know, there is a little bit of kind of embarrassment, or you know, you want to feel comfortable with who you're with, and you're more likely to feel comfortable if this is what they're doing all day, every day, you know, because they're getting the practice in to kind of learn how to bring up certain subjects without making you feel bad, or you know, that sort of thing. So I think that's important. And there's there are now actual fellowships for specifically physical therapists who want to do pelvic floor stuff. Um and so when you go see them, usually they do like an initial assessment that does involve physical exams. So they just similar to if you were at a GYN appointment, they are gonna do an internal exam with their fingers to kind of assess, you know, strength of certain muscle groups and if they're having any tenderness or pain. You know, sometimes people will have like spasms down there that that can be painful and they can really help a lot with trying to retrain those muscles to relax. Um and then once they kind of figure out where you're starting from, then they will usually they have like these little electrode things that look kind of like I don't know, a dildo essentially, that you put it's attached to wires so it can sense pressure. Um, and so you put that in, and you know, they'll tell you to do certain things, hold a contraction for a certain amount of time, you know, be in different positions and contract those muscles, and then they're able to see a readout on the computer of exactly how well you're doing and what you know, they can kind of coach you through a little bit more meaningfully, how to actually, you know, like change this, try, you know, try to breathe like this and do it and see if that helps. And and then when they catch you doing it right, then you get you know, immediate feedback, like that's the that's what we need you to do, keep doing that, you know. And then they'll give you certain exercises to practice at home. Um and it it's I've seen patients have really pretty dramatic improvement doing it. And I, you know, I've had incontinence for a very long time that I was just living with. And when I took my I took some time off before trans, you know, transitioning into this travel stuff. And over the summer, I did physical therapy myself, and it was like a very big difference. Okay, okay, very, very big. And it was, you know, I want to say, I mean, I think I was going for like I think those sessions, I can't remember if they were maybe 45 minutes long or something. And I was going, I think I did maybe once a week for six weeks or something like that. And then, you know, she had me doing homework, and I would say it was maybe if I was really doing it right, probably like 20 minutes a day or something at home that I was doing, but it was, you know, it made me feel like I cannot believe I waited this long, you know. Like, why did I not prioritize this before?

SPEAKER_01 18:56

And how long did it take for you to start noticing a difference? Did it take the same?

SPEAKER_00 18:59

I would say, I mean, I was kind of skeptical. I'm a hard judge. Yeah. So I didn't really want to, you know, I was like, well, but I, you know, I wasn't drinking as much. So maybe that's why I wasn't leaking. Or maybe I did, I was home. So it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like I was up on my feet all day, or you know, like I was coming up with all these reasons for why, you know, why are my underwear dry now? And finally, I mean, it was probably a few weeks, maybe three or four weeks before I started really being like, okay, this is actually real.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

And yeah.

unknown 19:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

I didn't believe it's embarrassing because I feel like you know, I try to convince people to do it all the time. But even when it was myself, I was like, hmm.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

That is interesting. Okay, I gotta definitely keep that in mind. And

Hypnobirthing Through Chaos And Complications

SPEAKER_01 20:04

as far as I guess we could just kind of switch gears here, but I wanted I do want to get on the topic of pregnancies, sure. But I would also like to know what has been like your most just intense story being an OBGYN. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Uh there's so many stories, so many different kinds of things. I don't know. You got to give me a more specific question. I couldn't, there's no way I can narrow it down.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

I would say, let's see, like a birth story, like an amazing birth story.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Okay. I I am not a very natural person. Like I like interventions, I like control, I like medicine, I like, you know, I like all the things. Yeah. And so, but I had this one patient one time who well, I had gotten introduced to hypnobirthing by another patient, and it had worked really well with her. And so I started recommending it to people who were trying to go trying to labor naturally without an epidural. And it it definitely is legit, like it actually works. But I recommended it to this one patient, and she ended up needing an induction, which makes it a little bit harder to, you know, to go natural because inductions take longer, you know, patience runs out. So we were having to induce, and um she so she was a little bit nervous, but she got in her zone and was doing hypnobirthing, is like, you know, you kind of prepare ahead of time with certain phrases that are gonna trigger. You to be really calm and you know controlled and stuff. So she she got in her zone and started doing it, and everything was going really well. And then you know, I was in Florida, so there was, I don't know. Do you guys know what water spouts are? It kind of looks like a tornado, but it's on the water. And okay, yeah. And you don't really know for sure when you see it. Is it a tornado? Is it a hurricane? You know, like what's happening, but you just see this thing twisting around, right? And so there had been like one-sided or whatever. And so the hospital is going into like their emergency mode. And so they're having us move all of the patients away from windows, and you know, like we have to physically relocate everybody. So we're moving her bed while she's slavering and like trying to hope. Are we, you know, is it about to be a hurricane? What's happening? And she was like through all that chaos, so calm and together, and never, you know, just really focused. And she ended up delivering like a nine and a half pound baby in a position that was probably made it feel even bigger than that to her pelvis.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

And she ended up having a postpartum hemorrhage, and we have to do all sorts of stuff to fix that. She did it like so poised and calmly, and no, you know, it was just amazing. Like it just gave me goosebumps how she did the entire delivery. I was so impressed. But it's kind of cool sometimes, you know. Like I see labor all the time, and it's it is a miracle every time, but you know, some of them just make you feel like, oh my gosh, this was really unbelievable what she just did, you know. One of those times. I've never heard of hypno, what is it called? Hypnobirthing, like hypnotizing, but yeah, um and they do it themselves, they don't they're just talking to themselves. Now when it first came out, it was like just it was smaller, but now it's kind of developed. And I've had some patients that you know maybe are more religious that do it kind of with you know, with whatever their religion is kind of slant, and some that are not at all religious, and they do it, you know, like more with a spiritual but less religious kind of slant. So it it has kind of developed um where it it fits well for a lot of different people, you know. And it's it's definitely hands down the most impressive method, I think, for people who do want to try to go, or you know, certain people are not candidates for epidurals and would like to have one, but are not allowed to get them. And so for them, it's really helpful too. But I've seen people who who cannot tolerate just a regular exam in the office use this and do a beautiful unmedicated delivery with nothing. It's impressive.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

And

Epidural Versus Spinal And Safety Limits

SPEAKER_01 25:44

what are some reasons why, you know, besides like an allergy or because you're already too far in labor, what are some other reasons that you probably wouldn't use?

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Um people have had prior back surgery that have hardware there, and so they can't do it. Some people have certain, you know, back problems, like if you already have problems with the discs and in the levels that they would do in epidural, a lot of times they don't want to touch it because they don't want to make anything worse, you know. And then there are certain conditions that can cause your blood not to clot properly. And if you have any of those, one of probably the most common would be some people, as a part of preeclampsia, can have their blood not plotting properly. And so if your platelets are too low, or you know, you've been on a blood thinner and we didn't know you were going into labor and take you off in time or something like that, then they won't do it because they're afraid to poke a hole. Yeah, and then you bleed and don't stop bleeding, you know, from there.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

So and then I know because I know how dangerous spinals can be. And I had one with my son, and now I have this spot on my back that never stops itching.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Like what I don't know about the itching, right? I got it, and it will never go away. I don't know what that would have been. Um, I don't know, unless they maybe just got, you know, happened to get a little feeder nerve or something. And and that changed a little bit. A lot of times I think that the, you know, I'll hear people saying that something wasn't the same after an epidural or spinal. And I think a lot of times it's more so the pregnancy that you know, okay, that causes some anatomical changes to the back, or you know, all of that strain carrying that baby around can my son was huge, so can change you forever.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

So yeah, nine and a half pounds. Um what is the difference between an epidural and a spinal exactly?

SPEAKER_00 28:10

It depends on it's what space they're getting into. Okay. So they go, it's a totally different space. It's like millimeters different in location, okay, um, but it's a different space of the spinal cord and which affects differently the nerves. And so a spinal will give you denser anesthesia, so it's good for a C-section because that's even more painful than a vaginal delivery would be. And but it's shorter lasting, you know. So a good spinal is going to give you a couple hours of pain control. Whereas with an epidural, um, because of the space that they're in, they're able to leave a catheter in place, and they can continue to give you more medicine over time. So a good epidural will last, you know, maybe between 12 and 24 hours. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

So and so when you're delivering vaginally, they don't typically use a spinal, it's only a right, yes. Okay, okay, that makes a lot of sense.

Placenta Previa And Hemorrhage Risk

SPEAKER_01 29:24

And I know I had placentia, placenta previa when I was pregnant with my daughter. So what exactly does that consist of?

SPEAKER_00 29:34

So that happens when the placenta is covering the opening of the cervix. And so, you know, the placenta is what supplies the nourishment to the baby, and it does that by getting, you know, it's the interface of all the baby's blood vessels to all of the mom's blood vessels, and so it's a very bloody organ. Um, and normally when you go into labor and the cervix starts to open up, you know, there's nothing laying over the top of it. And so where the cervix opens up, there's just the bag of water and then the baby. And once the cervix is open wide enough, then the baby's able to pass through there. But if the placenta is laying on top of the cervix and the cervix starts opening up, it tears that placenta apart as it's opening, and all of those blood vessels are then broken open, and you can have like you know, life-threatening hemorrhage essentially. During pregnancy, every single minute, so much blood is going towards the baby that a third of your blood volume goes through the uterus every minute. So it doesn't take long, you know. Yeah, if that blood is not getting recirculated back through you, but is draining out, you know, in a bleed, it wouldn't take long to die at all. So that's why someone who has a previa has to have a C-section.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Oh my gosh. So it would be more so fatal for the mom, but and the baby, or just potentially also for the baby.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

I mean, essentially, basically also for the baby, you know, because the baby is dependent while the baby is inside, the baby is dependent on the mom. So if the mom runs out of blood, oh I gotcha. No, then there's nothing taking oxygen to the baby anymore. So it would be a matter, typically, you have if the mom is dying dead, you had like five minutes, you know, where you could save the baby if you were able to get it out. Yeah. So have you ever had to deal with that? I knock on wood, have not had to do like a perimortem C section, but I've definitely, you know, it's just been the luck of the draw. There have been, you know, my partners have had to do some, you know. So those are tough.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Yeah. And what have you had any just horrible births that you have to that you had to do?

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Or I've had some, yeah, you know, some tough outcomes and stuff. We I think we forget, you know, that just a hundred years ago, it was very common for moms to die in childbirth, you know, like I forget what the exact numbers are, but you know, maybe one in a hundred, you know, like it was not, it was very common. Most people just a hundred years ago would have known somebody who had died in childbirth, right? Um, personally. And now it's much less common. Um, and and so it's not that it's not possible, it's anymore, it's just that we have a lot of near misses. And so those near misses can be um traumatic, even though you know, even though we make it through, it can be very scary for everyone.

Vitamins And Healthy Pregnancy Weight Gain

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Okay, and as far as like prenatal vitamins, I know how important they are during pregnancy, but what would be the best vitamin when you're not pregnant or right after you know you've given birth?

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Well, again, I'm not a very natural person. Yeah, I don't really, you know, I'm I wouldn't call myself the expert on vitamins, okay, but I, you know, in my opinion, I feel like, you know, a multivitamin is basically a multivitamin, and much beyond that is probably mostly marketing and not really necessarily a big difference from one versus the other. So I always tell people get the cheapest one, you know. I've had, you know, it's controversial. There are some people that believe strongly in vitamins, and there are other people, you know, I had one hematologist, which you would think, you know, they're the blood doctors. You would think of anybody, they would be the most into it. And he was like, Why are you taking vitamin? Like, stop doing that. It's just, you know, he felt like you should eat a balanced diet, and then you'll get a natural source of the vitamins, and that all of this supplementation is not really the form in which it's helpful for us, you know. And he he actually felt like it contributed to weight gain, but I don't know if there's, you know, I don't know if that's true or not. But but, you know, there's a range of people, you know, I think doing a multivitamin is probably unlikely to hurt anything and might help, but okay, especially for people who are not good at eating a balanced diet.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Okay, good. And then what I guess what would you say is a healthy weight gain for pregnant for pregnancy?

SPEAKER_00 35:31

It depends on what your starting weight is. So the smaller you are to begin with, the more weight that it's reasonable for you to gain. And the heavier you are, the less weight is ideal for you to gain. So that people who are, you know, in the heavier group, we usually say to try to keep the weight gain to 10 to 12 pounds or so. Okay. Um and as long as, you know, we'd be following along the growth of the baby during the pregnancy, as long as it seemed like the baby was growing well, even if you didn't gain weight, we wouldn't be worried, you know. Okay. But we don't, we usually tell people not to really diet per se during pregnancy in order to try to maintain that, but just to try to make some healthy, you know, healthy choices and portion control. But you know, some bodies are just gonna gain a lot of weight, regardless of what you're you know, doing. Some of it is just genetic, it's gonna happen. Okay. Okay. But you know, for example, my first pregnancy, I gained 100 pounds. Yeah. And then the second time, because that had happened and the baby came out six pounds. Yeah. Oh, that was so depressing. And then I don't know what. I mean, obviously, I wasn't gonna have a hundred-pound baby. I don't know what my brain was thinking when it was happening, but yeah, when he was six pounds, I was like, oh gosh, what do I do now? Oh my goodness. So then the next time I was very, very conscious about trying to limit the damage. Yeah. And even though I was, and I think with the second one, I was sick in the beginning. So I had lost 30 pounds or something in the beginning of the pregnancy. And even though I was very, very focused and stuck to a specific plan, I still gained, I gained that 30 back and gained another 50. Like I just, yeah, my body was not cooperative with the pregnancy. I definitely did it.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

With my daughter, I didn't gain that much, but I think with my son, I think I gained about like 85, 90%. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Ay, aye, yeah. Oh, I don't understand. Just a nightmare. I get so jealous of these people that you know bounce back to because some people will gain weight and then will just snap right back. And that was never me. I don't know. It's not fair. Supposed to, and I breastfed, you're supposed to lose weight when you're breastfeeding. No, yeah, I didn't for me.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

I did not lose weight at all. But I know that is what now that you said breastfeeding. That was definitely

Breastfeeding Benefits Without The Shame

SPEAKER_01 38:47

one of the questions that some of these women wanted to ask is are children more, are the children who aren't breastfed, are they more prone to illnesses than the children who are breastfed?

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Technically, yeah. You know, technically they're, you know, in in infancy, they are more prone to getting, you know, ear infections or asthma, colds, that kind of thing. And I think in general, breastfed babies tend to have they're less likely to be obese themselves. And you know, there's a a million things that technically maybe breastfed babies do better with. That being said, I'm a huge breastfeeding fan. I breastfed both my kids exclusively for a year, but I but breastfeeding is also very challenging. And so I don't, as much as I'm a fan of the support that breastfeeding gets these days, I think it's also important to hold space for people who struggle with it, you know, and recognize that realistically, I mean, you might have small improvements, and it's of course it's your baby, you want them to have every advantage possible. But at the same time, the kids that are not breastfed do just fine. You know what I mean? Like formula, we're in a privileged society, formula is safe and healthy, and and how as long as your baby is eating something, how they get that food is such a small percentage of what you're providing that baby as a parent, you know. And so I don't like people to beat themselves up if they're not able to do it, you know. I don't think that that's I think that's a negative outcome of the push towards breastfeeding, is that some women feel really bad if it doesn't go well, and it can be very difficult to get established.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

I'm probably feeling a little defeated because I'm like, that was me, you know. Maybe that's why someone has so many ear infections, and because I had a reduction, so me trying to produce it, just yeah, I mean, there's a million reasons that can make it difficult, and it's so your kids are not gonna remember if they were breastfed or not.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

You know, I I suffered through a lot to try to breastfeed those kids, and they have no, you know, zero recollection of it and zero, you know, my every every shortcoming that they have, or you know, you're gonna, as a mom, you're gonna find a way to blame yourself. It really doesn't, you know, yeah, probably nothing. My every time my kids would act up, my ex would say it's because I got the epidural. Yeah. Dude, this is not like if you didn't take that back crack, yeah, come on. It is not why they won't behave. Yeah, you didn't take that.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Yeah, I don't know how some of the women do that voluntarily and they say that they don't work because that is not that pain, it is no joke.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

I know it's serious. It is serious, that's for sure. And even I like to tell people that, you know, too, even people who labor very well naturally, it's painful. Like it's not that they're not in pain, it's that they have a unique gift to cope with it, you know. Um, and I always tell men that are involved in those situations that this is not, you know, don't because she's making it look easy. Do not think that this is easy.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yeah, and I had two c-sections, so I never had to go through the ring of fire, and I'm like, right, I did not do not want to have to ever.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Although I c-section pain is no joke.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

Yeah, yeah. It that was not fun.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

I would not, you know, I've never had a c-section, but just looking at it, I would take a ring of fire over a c-section any day, which is you know, a lot of times the majority of people who have a c-section are not doing it by choice. It's because it needs to happen.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

But you know, it's not the easy way out by any stretch of the imagination.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

It definitely is not. And I lost a lot, I almost needed a blood transfusion with my son. Yeah. On a military base, it was like, what? Yeah, yeah. Yes. So,

One-size Womanhood Myths And Closing

SPEAKER_01 43:54

and what's just one piece of advice, whether it be womanly advice, pregnancy, anything, uh, just What would you give the listeners?

SPEAKER_00 44:04

I would say, you know, women are half the population of the world. There's a lot of us. We are not one way, you know. And so a lot of times people will say, oh, well, women do this. So women, you know, they want to make us into one thing. And that's so far from the case. And so you should not, you know, if your experience is different from what maybe a lot of other people may have, that doesn't invalidate your experience at all. And I think we should stop even striving to be like, well, her birth was like this, and I want my birth to be like that. It's not gonna be, you know, it's not gonna be, and it shouldn't be. And even if it was, you might not enjoy it as much as she did because it's you're not her. You know what I mean? And so I think people should be more flexible to the idea of variation with childbirth, with the way that you parent, with the way that you move through life and you know through all the different phases of womanhood. You know, it's not it doesn't have to be one way, it doesn't make sense to be one way. Anyone who is trying to hold you to a different standard and say, oh, you know, something must be wrong with your hormones because you have an attitude. No, you are doing something dumb, and that's why I have an attitude, you know what I mean? Like this has nothing to do with my hormones, you know, and because men are also moody, yeah, you know, and that nobody tells them go get their hormones fixed, right? But they have just as much attitude and mood swings and unpredictability as we do, but yet because we're women, we're you know, told we should fix that, or and it's just unreasonable, you know. Absolutely, it's how I feel, and you know, you're gonna have to figure it out because just figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

Thank you for all of it. Like we need to hear that because that is true. They're constantly just identifying us with that, right? Oh, you guys are just so emotional. It's like, yeah, you're right. So are they, they are absolutely exactly right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

And they don't have to explain to anybody about why it just is, and everybody assumes, oh, well, it must have been, you know, something provoked them or something, you know, it's it's not a shortcoming on their part. It's just yeah, it's that so that's what I would say is that don't stop holding yourself to a certain goal, you know, that is gonna set you up for failure. Like just try to accept, you know, learn who you are, learn how your body works, accept who you are, try to maximize it from a health point of view, you know. Um, but not, you know, everyone is not gonna fit one certain mold.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

I like that. Thank you so much, cousin. Ah, just so beautiful, so smart. But then everyone again, this is my cousin Nikki Rowan. And Nikki, so do you have your own private practice or no?

SPEAKER_00 47:40

I don't. So now that I'm doing this travel stuff, I'm just like, I don't know, like a hired. I'm for hire, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Okay, to the highest bidder. Okay, I just wanted to be sure so I didn't add that to the show notes. All right. Well, again, thank you guys so much. Again, I'm Robin Black. This is Nikki Rowan, and this is it's all about healing podcast. Everyone, stay blessed.