Reaching ALL Students with Mathematics: Modernizing Math with Blended Learning

In this episode, host Jessica Boucher sits down with Melanie Janzen, Curriculum Coordinator with the SBCSS Math Department. Together, they explore how educators can transform math instruction to ensure ALL students have access to meaningful and rigorous mathematical experiences. 

Grounded in the 2023 Mathematics Framework, the conversation unpacks the Skill/Will Matrix, asset-based pedagogy, and funds of knowledge. They also discuss how these approaches honor student strengths while addressing persistent achievement gaps. Listeners will hear practical strategies for using blended learning structures—online tasks, offline learning, and teacher-led small groups—to differentiate instruction, support readiness, and modernize math classrooms. 

This episode offers actionable insight for teachers, coaches, and leaders committed to building equitable, engaging, and inclusive mathematics learning environments for ALL students.

For more Digital Learning Services information text DLS news to 22828 or find us on Twitter @sbcss_edtech

Music by ItsWatR from Pixabay - Wataboi Flavour

Transcript

[00:00:00] Sonal: Welcome to the SBCSS Digital Learning Bits and Bytes podcast inspired by our dedication for equitable and inclusive educational technology and computer science.

[00:00:14] Jessica: I'm Jessica Boucher, project specialist specializing in digital literacy, blended learning, and eSports. In my work in educational technology, I work to help educators design impactful blended learning environments, which is the combination of online learning, offline tasks, and teacher-led check-ins or small group discussions to promote student agency and engagement.

The SBCSS Digital Learning Services, asynchronous course, Blended Learning with AI, a Practical Guide for Educators is rolling out in 2026. This is a 12 week asynchronous course that is available for university credits. We'll give you more information at the end of this podcast on how you can enroll in the upcoming cohort.[00:01:00] 

In today's episode, we're discussing the intersection of blended learning with mathematics instruction. We will be specifically referring to the new 2023 mathematics framework, which calls for modernizing math instruction in ways that expand access, increase in engagement, and recognized students' assets and funds of knowledge.

The goal is to make math accessible to all students. To unpack this information, I'm excited to welcome our guest, Melanie Janzen, curriculum coordinator with the SBCSS mathematics department. Melanie is an incredible leader who has been guiding districts through instructional shifts in mathematics that make it fun, interactive, and engaging, while deepening conceptual understanding and focusing on equity by bringing mathematics to all students.

Welcome, Melanie.

[00:01:52] Melanie: Thank you so much. I'm so honored to be here today.

[00:01:54] Jessica: It is an honor to have you, and I'm very excited to, to talk math today.

[00:01:58] Melanie: Woo hoo hoo. [00:02:00] You know it.

[00:02:00] Jessica: Yes. Our department's Digital Learning Services and math have partnered previously, we've done a couple workshops regarding blended learning and math. There's a lot of intersectionality between what we do and even more so with the 2023 mathematics framework. Can we start off by having you summarize what makes the new mathematics framework different from the previous guidance, please?

[00:02:25] Melanie: Ooh, that's a big question. Uh, 1000 page document to another thousand page document.

Uh, the 2013 framework, it was talking about the shifts in education, trying to embody what common core standards should look like in the classroom for 2013. And while we still use our common core standards, um. Our students are different now. We've endured a pandemic. Our use of technology is increasing.

Uh, artificial intelligence is skyrocketing in its use and [00:03:00] applications, and so our students are not the same as they were in 2013. So really the 2023 framework is more of a revision, uh, a modernization of the 20 20 13 framework. Um. And while it really talks about big ideas and and the interconnectedness of mathematics, whereas when we first came out with the 2013 framework, here are the standards, this is how we teach 'em.

Now, how do we reach the student and how do we change our instructions so that we are reaching all students in the 2013 framework. There was one chapter entirely dedicated to universal access, which we thought was amazing. This is what we needed. But then we realized that we need to change instruction so that it's not just a one thought, but that that universal access is interwoven throughout the entire framework, so that we are really emphasizing that mathematics instruction is for [00:04:00] all of our students.

So for our students with disabilities, for our gifted students, for our multilingual learners, and for the kids who are just like. Why do I care? Um, and so really shifting that emphasis and showing the interconnectedness and relevance of math. So just more of, I think, more of an amplification and modernization.

If I were to sum it up in a few words.

[00:04:22] Jessica: It sounds very timely.

[00:04:25] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:26] Jessica: It's, it's an ambitious project, I think on both ends, the 2013 and the 2023, because in 2013, comic core was so new.

[00:04:36] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:37] Jessica: So I feel like that was probably their focus of how do we make educators feel more comfortable with these, these new standards in this new way of, uh, teaching math to students.

And then probably through seeing the, the outcomes of. How performance has happened with, with testing and the dashboard and things like that. The shift now is towards [00:05:00] how do we teach current students, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, how do we keep up with the way that they learn and what their attention span is? And that inner intersectionality that you were talking about with interconnecting math for the big ideas, um, that makes that like really engaging to students.

Because they're not just learning, oh, here's today we're learning standard number, dot number dot letter. Uh, we're actually, we're learning these big concepts.

[00:05:32] Melanie: Mm-hmm. And how it applies or how am I engaging with the mathematics? So it's not just, um, like we understand Charlie Brown's teacher, you know, like we understand that reference.

We don't understand what they're saying. But I feel like our students today, for the most part, that's how they hear or view math instruction. In general. And so how do we change that? So how do we make it relevant? Because mathematics can be such a gatekeeper that holds our kids back and we want it to [00:06:00] actually be an open gate so that they have access.

In their future because, uh, selfishly I need them to really understand it. 'cause I need the future to look nice for when I get older and they take care of me.

[00:06:12] Jessica: Yes, we, we all want great futures for ourselves and our students. There's something in it for everybody.

[00:06:19] Melanie: There is. There is.

[00:06:19] Jessica: For sure. So in the summary section that the beginning of the new mathematics framework, there's a, a quote that I wanted to read and, uh, ask you a follow-up question.

So, it states, "given the status of mathematics, access and achievement, California and the United States need to develop new approaches for deepening mathematics learning, addressing achievement gaps, and modernizing instruction to meet the demands of a fast changing world." So that quote was pretty powerful, and when I thought of it, I, I stepped back and reflected that word modernizing jumped out at me.

And so because of [00:07:00] what I do, I immediately thought of modernizing as as technology. So I wanted to ask you, how, how do you think or how have you seen, um, technology assist with ways to. Challenge , engage, engage and support all students in deep and relevant math content learning.

[00:07:19] Melanie: Okay, that's a big one. That's a big one too.

[00:07:20] Jessica: That was a long question as well.

[00:07:23] Melanie: So first of all, when I, when I think about modernizing math, so when I pre, uh, prepare presentations to talk to teachers, I wanna have a picture of here's math instruction. And when I Google an image for math instruction. The pictures I get are students who are bored, who are confused.

I get rows and chalkboards. So to me it's like that was the technology of 1952, and we are still, oh, hey, guess what? We now have a whiteboard, or [00:08:00] we now have our document camera, but it's still the same type of instruction. It's not changing. So in. Thinking about that modernizing math. It's not just, I'm gonna sit and talk at you and our kids are gonna magically absorb all of this knowledge.

We all know that doesn't happen. I would say even if you're talking to your spouse and you talk at them, you know that's not going in. And so how do we expect that to, to happen with our little people?

[00:08:29] Jessica: That's a great analogy.

[00:08:30] Melanie: Yes. I mean, come, let's, let's make it real. So you've got these kids who are like, uh, math doesn't apply to me and you're gonna talk at me.

And make me feel uncomfortable about math concepts. And so they've shut down. And so that's why we get those pictures of the kids bored and confused and we want the opposite to happen. We wanna see them engaged and whether we use technology, we use different strategies in modernizing the way in which we deliver math content is also really important.

[00:09:00] Technology is a huge tool we can use to support in, um. Ways to, to help differentiate for our students in ways to explore deep math concepts. Um, and it's not replacing teachers. That's something that's something really important too. Like the, I, I can't just put a kid on X program and they're gonna magically learn everything.

There's some great programs that are gonna help me, especially if I have a classroom of 32 kids. I can't address every single need in a 45 minute class period. So I'm gonna need some help and I'm gonna need some assistance. So I might have some individualized programs to work on, some specific skills, some specific content, uh, while I can go and address some other kids, right?

But I gotta, I, but I have to modernize my instruction as well so that I'm able to meet with this group over here. We talk about this, I understand what your needs are, we can go here. [00:10:00] And then I have a. A computer program that will help you go a little bit deeper for a little bit more practice while I meet with another group over here that has this particular need.

Or even if I use, uh, when I think about the, the various needs of my students, could I, as the teacher, use the technology to help the way in which I deliver? And so when we think about Universal Design for Learning, I love that it says design like we are architects of. What happens in the classroom, and so do we want it to be a big, ugly brown building, just square?

Right? And or do we want it something vibrant that people come and look at? Because it is pleasing on all, uh, aspects, right? It's visually pleasing. It, you, the it, the aesthetics are amazing. You wanna come back again, right? That's what you want your classroom to feel like. That the aesthetics are happening are amazing.

I feel like learning is happening and so I have to modernize the way I [00:11:00] approach how I design. And so I'm gonna use some technology for that. I'm gonna use some new, um, pedago pedagogy nor more pedagogical strategies for my kids because. Uh, you know what? We gotta deal with six, seven all the time.

[00:11:16] Jessica: How long is that gonna keep going?

[00:11:17] Melanie: Oh my gosh. Right? And so either we lean into it and so every question is gonna have the answer of six or seven, right?

[00:11:23] Jessica: Oh, I could, I could see how that could be big in math. Yes. Oh, no, I'm sorry math teachers out there.

[00:11:31] Melanie: Right. And so either I'm gonna cringe or I'm gonna lean into it because right now, the more I, I try to, uh, tamp it down, the more they're gonna do it.

Okay. Challenge accepted. We got you. So let's, let's find a creative way to lean into that so we can help. I don't know. Let's use some technology. What are some ways that you could use Desmos to design your answers? What if the slope is six and the slope is seven? What happens? Right. So how do we modernize the way in which teach [00:12:00] technology is a huge part of it because we wanna work smarter and not harder um, help with that.

[00:12:06] Jessica: You said so many amazing things. I really like the visual that you gave of designing something and we, you can have like this cardboard box of a, of a lesson, like when you said, oh, just this, you know. Mm-hmm. Brown building or, um, so I like how you're, you're, you're saying we can use the technology, we can use different pedagogical ways of giving the students the information and having them show what they know. And, and it turns into like these great adornments.

[00:12:40] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:40] Jessica: That you're adding, like cool paint colors. You're adding, oh, let's, let's add some shutters, let's add this, let's add that. Um, and thinking about it as you have. The basic foundation of this is the instruction. Like this is the objective, this is what we're teaching, um, these are the big [00:13:00] ideas, and then we're gonna, we're gonna add onto it, all these other more engaging ways to look at it. And with Universal Design for Learning, you have that multiple means of representation. So multiple ways that the students are able to access what they're supposed to know, and then the multiple ways of action and expression to show us what they know.

And then you talked about groups and how the teacher can meaningfully integrate technology such as Desmos while they're working with the needs of student groups or conferencing with individual students, and that that is a blended learning concepts or having online, offline and teacher led groups or teacher led conferencing and one-on-one.

And so modernizing that instruction and leaning into ways that. Math is gonna look different. It, it can be a little intimidating at first.

[00:13:55] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:55] Jessica: Um, but I love your analogy again, like it can be beautiful. We [00:14:00] can make it fun and colorful and engaging where the students are playing with the math, having those habits of mind and really thinking about the concepts that we want them to be able to engage in.

[00:14:14] Melanie: And done with intentionality. So it's not like haphazard. We slapped some color on the wall and we called it a day. Right? There's a reason and a purpose behind the things that we did because it was intentionally designed so that students come out with a better understanding of math, that they can show what they know, have the opportunity to talk about their learning and engage more deeply and explain it to somebody else, right?

So when we think about our students and um, you know, we're really working on our, our. Multilingual learners. But when you think about it, our students are math language learners. So what opportunities do they have to engage with the language of math? They should be talking about math so much in class, so when your administrator walks [00:15:00] by, they should hear a lot of conversation that's happening in the classroom.

And and, and I know teachers are gonna be like, I'm giving up control, but you're not. You're creating a controlled environment in which they're having these discussions so that we will see more engagement, uh, which should lead in turn to better outcomes for students.

[00:15:24] Jessica: Absolutely. Um, I like that piece about them talking about the math and having the discourse. Um, what's that quote where like, the, the person doing the talking is doing the learning or something like that.

[00:15:35] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:35] Jessica: I always put your quotes. Um, so. That is that way of them having to process what they've taken in and be able to, to verbalize it or have a form of expressing it. And it, it is beneficial to all students, not just our multilingual learners.

[00:15:52] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:53] Jessica: Um, all, all students can benefit from that.

[00:15:57] Melanie: Absolutely.

[00:15:58] Jessica: So that's a really great, [00:16:00] um, way to just add in. That, um, speaking and listening piece. And I like what you said also about it's not giving up control, it's giving them that agency in a controlled environment. Um, that's, that's really powerful because this new way of teaching it, it really does ask for, for a big shift from teachers.

[00:16:22] Melanie: Oh, 100%. And so I really appreciate when administrators come along and say, how do we help support. What are the things that we need to put in place? Because a lot of times it falls on the teacher's shoulders and if they don't have all of the support in place, it, the, the movement can die out or they get tired because there's so many things that they're having to lift by themselves, that it really is gonna, it's gonna take a group effort.

[00:16:54] Jessica: We go through that with blended learning there, there is a learning curve. And I [00:17:00] tell the teachers that I coach, don't give up after 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 times trying this. It's new to you as the teacher. It's a new way to teach, especially if you're used to the rows and the notebooks. Mm-hmm. And now you're doing different stations or you're doing flex learning.

Um, it can be something that's discouraging because if it doesn't go well the first time you think, okay, nope. Yep. Everything I thought all my fears. Yep. It all just happened. I'm going back to what I know. And then just having that courage to try it again.

[00:17:32] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:32] Jessica: And a big thing that I have to also remind them is that it's not only a shift in how we're teaching, so when it comes to blended learning or when it comes to the, the math framework and the, the shifts in pedagogy, um. It's a shift for how the students are studenting.

[00:17:49] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:49] Jessica: How the students are learning.

[00:17:51] Melanie: I love that verb studenting. Mm-hmm.

[00:17:53] Jessica: That's not mine. That's from Building Thinking Classrooms.

[00:17:55] Melanie: Love it. Love it.

[00:17:57] Jessica: So it's, it's a shift for them as well [00:18:00] where they are not able to. Rely on the years of their experience in math or in a class of, this is what I do, this is what's expected, this is how I comply, this is how I play the, the student.

Um, it's now asking them to be more involved to have that agency take that initiative. And so. It's not only us learning how to give them that agency and, and become more of the facilitator, it's also the students learning. Oh, they really do want me to engage. They, okay. She or he, the teacher is actually gonna keep us accountable doing this.

Oh, all right. I better, I better learn what's expected now with these stations or with, you know. Collaborating with my group at a vertical, non-permanent surface. So it, it's a big shift on, on both ends.

[00:18:58] Melanie: Mm-hmm. Right. And you're [00:19:00] right, it's like focusing in on that accountability. It's not, I just let you go, but I'm gonna hold you accountable because I need to make sure you learn something and, and when you share what you learned, then they over there get to hear something and that adds to their understanding as well.

So it's that power of the collective is so important.

[00:19:19] Jessica: So with that, with that shift in how students are learning, I learned something from you, from a professional development that I attended that you were leading and it's the Skill Will Matrix And this was really profound because when you, when you laid this out, it talks about the students that are in different quadrants when it comes to skill and will.

And I saw the correlation with UDL. And how if we teach and design our instruction for the students at the margins, everybody benefits. And what I really liked about the Skill Will Matrix is that it, you, you had us identify students who fall into those [00:20:00] quadrants. And if we have them in mind as we're designing, we're going to be able to help all the students.

[00:20:07] Melanie: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:07] Jessica: Um, so would you be able to tell us how the Skill Will Matrix, um, how you've maybe. Seen it used or how you, um, maybe advise us to be able to use that.

[00:20:21] Melanie: So based on the, the work of John Hattie and, and using Universal Design for Learning. And so as you think about when you think about certain students that come to mind, you're like, how am I gonna help so and so with this?

And, and first identifying what type of student that child is. Is it that they don't have the skill to be able to do it? Or is it they don't have the will? So when we think about Universal Design for learning, the first thing we talk about is engagement. So how am I gonna engage you if you think you can't do it, or you think you won't do it because I don't care enough about it, right?

So there's [00:21:00] different means of how am I gonna engage you? So if my task is a low floor, high ceiling type of task. Melanie who has the low skill, she at least can come in and she's got some basics that she can start to advocate for. And like we were talking about, math, is it, we're working together. There should be a lot of dialogue.

So really mathematics is a social endeavor. We should be talking about it together. Mathematicians, you see them talking all the time. And so when we're, we're doing these types of tasks. You're gonna help pour Melanie out with a low skill. She's talking to somebody else and we are having this dialogue.

And so as she has to talk about it to somebody else, she's starting to understand more, right? So you're helping her with the low skill to elevate and understand more as, as she talks with her peers. I don't know about you, but when I'm teaching and kids look at me like I'm crazy and they're like, I don't understand what you just said.

And [00:22:00] then another kid will turn around and say the exact same words that came outta my mouth, but it came outta their mouth. And so now they magically understand it. I don't know if it's like a different decibel level that they understand, I don't know. But when it comes out of their mouths, it's so much more powerful.

So thinking about. Giving those opportunities for people like Melanie who have the really low skill, or you've got people like someone else who have low will or like, I am not doing this, I have already mm-hmm. Not today. And so how do I engage that person? Like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna have fun. We're gonna do, we're gonna do something to engage you so that something that is of your interest, or how do we help get you in there?

To even try it. And again, those low floor, high ceiling types of tasks are ways to like, okay, I can do that. I can move that tile over there. I can see answer six, you know, and so they can start, and again, when I'm, they're with their peers and we have that accountability [00:23:00] like we were talking about earlier.

So I know Ms. Janzen's gonna make us have to say something. So six. So setting up those.

[00:23:09] Jessica: Seven, sorry.

[00:23:11] Melanie: Yes. Oh, I teed that up perfectly and didn't even know it. Oh my gosh. That was beautiful.

Anyway, right? We have these, and again, you have to be flexible in classroom. When they say that, I'm gonna laugh with you and then we're gonna keep moving. Okay. But now we've kind of bird tracked and now I remember what I said, but. As we were talking about our, our low floor, high ceiling types of tasks, they will let you come back in and they'll let you start talking about, okay, well what if and what if?

So then Ms. Boucher comes over and she's like, well, what happens if this happens? Right? And so now she's got just a little bit of a nudge to help me with the low skill or engage me a little bit with the low will to then take me to the next level. Because then she's like, okay, I'm gonna ask you [00:24:00] this and she's gonna set those conditions so that I'm gonna be successful.

So I feel empowered, right? That's ultimately, we want our students to be empowered in the area of mathematics. 'cause we do not want math to be a gatekeeper for our students. So how are we gonna continue to push the envelope so that they are better and they are more confident? And so, like we talked about earlier too, we talked about that universal design for learning.

So she's already designed this amazing task with. Opportunities and little nudges to help me with a low skill, increase my skill or my friend with a low will to increase their engagement and they'll begrudgingly continued to, to answer and to learn and to move forward as you set and create those conditions for learning.

[00:24:45] Jessica: I really like how you're, you're you're talking about knowing your students as well, so getting past that gatekeeper or barrier. You're using the strengths that the students bring their assets. [00:25:00] So we're looking at like their funds of knowledge and what they're coming with and kind of using that to engage them, but also knowing where they're, where they are.

[00:25:10] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:11] Jessica: And so I'd like that low floor, but high ceiling. And you gave us an example of how we can reach those students that have the higher skill by adding more to the to the question.

[00:25:24] Melanie: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:25] Jessica: And so what I've noticed, sometimes when students are given a task, you're going to have a group that says, okay, yeah, the answer's six, seven we're done.

And then you have other groups that are still talking about it and still thinking about it. So that other group that's done, they're now in a group and you're like, okay, well.

[00:25:48] Melanie: Other what happens to you? Multiply by 10. This more time?

[00:25:50] Jessica: Yes.

[00:25:50] Melanie: So you're Oh, you six 70. Oh, right. There you go. So you just keep adding to it and just, yes, you're not done yet. You're not done.

[00:25:56] Jessica: So you're meeting them where they are.

[00:25:57] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:57] Jessica: So their skill might be [00:26:00] higher. So you're working towards their skill and still giving that other group the time to work in their skill level as well. And so everyone's getting their unique challenges. So I really like how you, you set that up and you gave us some of those examples.

Um. So I wanted to ask you, when we are designing the tasks that we want students to, to be working on and that, you know, we want those low floor high ceiling tasks, um, you had talked about earlier, like big ideas and we want those rich engaging ways for students to have discourse with the math content.

How, how might we be able to leverage Skill Will Matrix to design? Lessons and develop tasks that engage our students, especially those who appear low skill, low will?

[00:26:51] Melanie: Yikes.

[00:26:52] Jessica: I know solve.

[00:26:53] Melanie: You're going big, you're.

[00:26:54] Jessica: Solve the world's problem, please. [00:27:00] Because it's, it's those students where they're coming in and they, they might have that math story where it's, it hasn't been great for them. And so somewhere along the way they've lost that will. And so when they lose the will, they start losing the skills, the grade level skills, because they don't have that will or desire to be engaged.

And so those are those kiddos where. We're really trying to, to reach out to them and build their self-efficacy, build their ability to do math, and not have that idea of like, well, I'm not a math person because in third grade this happened.

[00:27:39] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:39] Jessica: And then they kind of, you know, lost that passion for it along the way. How might you coach a teacher with, with helping a student like that?

[00:27:49] Melanie: Whew. Again, going big. Go big. I love it. So. For example, as a ninth grade student [00:28:00] coming in, they may, you know, middle school, that is a special time, special, special time, right? So they get to high school and they're just trying to figure out themselves.

They're trying to figure out high school and their math skills may not be at the grade level that they're supposed to be. So if I see little Melanie, she does not have the skills to really do ninth grade math. Whether it's Algebra one, integrated whatever, for me to come along and say, oh, let me start you with some basics.

We're just gonna start with your addition facts and a flashcard, right? You've completely, now I've gone into low will 'cause you are not gonna do that to me. So what opportunities, what can I do to help build you up? Like let me give you a task where you can be successful at and continue to build on that.

It's gonna take some time, but I have to build your efficacy and talk about maybe the, the strategy that is needed to, to attend to the task. So [00:29:00] if, and, and maybe I used some kind of diagnostic test, which says, uh, Melanie works at a third grade math level. Well, first of all, what does third grade math level mean?

Because we have different opportunities. Are we talking about operations in algebraic thinking? Are we talking about geometry, measurement and data? If I just say third grade level, that doesn't, that tells me that there's some skills, but there also might have been like, I just clicked onto the next one because I was not trying to take that test.

And so how do I help bring out the best of that student? And so like you were talking about earlier, those funds of knowledge. What is it that you know? What are the things that you feel good at? What are you confident and how do I help maximize that? I know teachers who have a lot of students, how am I gonna do that for everybody?

But when we think about Universal Design for learning, we can, we're gonna hit those kids on the margins and we'll hit a lot more because we know that there's a couple that are [00:30:00] really low, low. They all might do third, you know, on whatever that diagnostic test is. Test at third grade, and then you've got the ones that are testing at 12th grade.

So if I'm gonna design for them, what are those opportunities I'm gonna give for success? Over here. And what am I gonna design for success over here For the, the ones that are achieving at or above grade level, that are miraculously all in my class at the same time. Absolutely. Right? Oh yeah. It always works out that way. Always, always.

[00:30:28] Jessica: I I like how you, um, you're saying we're, yes, I might be focusing on little Melanie and if she's on my Skill Will Matrix And I'm designing things for her in mind. It might also help little Jessica.

[00:30:45] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:45] Jessica: That might not be as apparent that little Jessica's struggling, but once you're adding in those differentiations and you're designing tasks, it, it's going to help [00:31:00] jessica as well.

[00:31:01] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:01] Jessica: And so I, that's what I love about that Skill Will Matrix because you, you are thinking about that one student, but it, it has like a ripple effect and it compounds into other students who might fall into some of the, the similarities of that student that you're thinking of.

And then also, I really like the, the big ideas because the standards in the big ideas. Are pretty fluid. Yes, you're teaching grade level standards, but some of those tasks can also expose them to higher grade level standards as well as. Lower grade level standards, which are like those foundational skills that they're building on or revisiting. And so I feel like that is a way with those big ideas to be able to help fill in the gaps without doing the Oh, I'm singling you out. Yes, you do have to, you know, catch up on your long division. Um, so they, they still. Are able to be with their peers.

[00:31:59] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:59] Jessica: And [00:32:00] since it's that low floor of the task and it does have maybe embedded some foundational standards from previous grade levels, all the students are able to revisit that and strengthen that. And some students just need that exposure to, to grasp it.

[00:32:15] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:16] Jessica: But everyone is benefiting. So I, I really liked your answer to that question to be able to, you know, not embarrass the students or, or further add injury to their math story, their schooling experience with math, but to be able to, to build their self, self-confidence and their, their math efficacy.

So in blended learning, uh, there are opportunities to have students work in collaborative groups. You've done work with building thinking classrooms as well as Kagan strategies, and I'm sure many others. What approaches have you found to be successful when grouping students for mathematics and, and the discourse that comes along with it as well?

And [00:33:00] I'm not asking you to say one is better than the other, um, I'm just in, in your experience, what have been maybe some of the benefits of the ways that you've seen teachers group students?

[00:33:13] Melanie: I love this. You're like, go big or go home. Right? So, right. These big, big, these big ideas. And so Kagan is all about cooperative engage, right?

It's about student engagement. And so the structures that Kagan has are designed to make sure that everybody has voice and that there is accountability. So it's not just you and I were talking because we're gonna talk about what we're gonna do after class or what happened. We're talking about the mathematics, and then we gotta make sure we stay focused.

'cause one of us is gonna get called. And I don't want be embarrassed. I mean, that's pretty much the driving force, right? But you get this opportunity to be able to speak, which supports all of our learners because for my shy one, if I don't get the opportunity to [00:34:00] talk and think about or process what I'm learning.

It's just gonna, you know, just go right over my head. So I do like, uh, Kagan for their structures in that respect. I do know, uh, for some teachers it could be a little daunting, making sure you have, according to Kagan, placing the students, uh, where they need to be. 'cause the skill level, and especially you have elementary, are you talking about their skill level For math, for English.

That's also a, uh, up for debate. But then you also have to consider, uh, their social.

[00:34:40] Jessica: Yes.

[00:34:41] Melanie: Ramifications, 

[00:34:42] Jessica: right? Who can sit with who.

Yes.

[00:34:43] Melanie: And right. So for me, I need social ramifications first before I can talk about skills. So that one's just a little more, uh, uh, in depth. It just takes a little more time.

And in Building Thinking [00:35:00] Classrooms, I like the emphasis on the randomness. And I like the emphasis on, I'm gonna work with you today and I'm gonna work with you tomorrow, and somebody else. And so we just keep, um, cycling through so I get to see and hear the strengths of other people. And so as we see that our students today may not be as adept socially. In being able to make conversation, um, being able to listen to one another, right? Those social skills that were so prevalent are not as prevalent in the classroom right now. And so I will hear or talk to somebody that may not be in my friend group, and I will see that there's, we have some commonalities even though we may not look the same, sound the same, like the same things, but we still have commonalities.

And so elevating [00:36:00] that. And it's random, so you're like, oh, here we go. We use whatever random generator we did. We, you know, some kind of computer randomizer I used, playing cards, whatever. It's a much, uh, easier entry point I think for, for uh, teachers. And once students start to understand or like, okay, I guess I can show Melanie today 'cause.

The odds are right there. There's a lesson right there that I won't have to work with her tomorrow, but, oh, she is kind of cool. Maybe. I don't know. We'll see. Jury's still out on that one. Yes. 

[00:36:37] Jessica: I, I like your answer to it because you were giving us the, the strengths, like, hey, this is, if you're going for this.

[00:36:45] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:45] Jessica: Kagan's helpful. If you're going for this, then the Buiding Thinking Classroom strategies are helpful. Uh, when I work with teachers for blended learning. That is the, the million dollar question, how do I group my kids? [00:37:00] And my answer is always intentionally, whatever that intention is you had answered it.

You said I, I'll take the social, I need to think about the social.

[00:37:12] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:12] Jessica: Before the skill, because you know, may, maybe it's, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but maybe it's you're prioritizing the classroom management.

[00:37:19] Melanie: Uh, yes.

[00:37:20] Jessica: There we go. Um. So it's intentional if I walk into a room and blended learning is going on and I see that the students are grouped, and I can ask the the teacher, how did you decide to group your students as long as you have an answer.

[00:37:33] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:34] Jessica: It's intentional. So it's whatever is important to you as the teacher, whatever it is that you are, you're striving for. Is it the skill, is it the social emotional? Is it that you want the students to have exposure to their peers, so you're building community within your classroom or a, a myriad of other reasons, even, you know, their, uh, placements on diagnostics.

So we [00:38:00] are the designers of our classroom of our instruction.

[00:38:05] Melanie: Absolutely.

[00:38:06] Jessica: And you had said earlier that AI is not going to replace teachers.

[00:38:11] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:12] Jessica: That's a point that we can see even with these groupings. Yeah. We could put student information, uh, respecting their privacy, but put criteria into AI and get an algorithm of how to group students. Uh, we can get i-Ready printouts of, oh, this is how they scored. But the thing is the teachers know their students.

[00:38:33] Melanie: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:35] Jessica: And if we're looking at things like their funds of knowledge, the Skill Will Matrix the assets that they're coming in with. We are able to design and personalize something that really helps build their self-efficacy, helps them to be engaged and also helps them to feel part of a community.

So I, I really like that, that you said that because yes, that's not something that a algorithm [00:39:00] can come in and take over.

[00:39:03] Melanie: Right. And, and we talk about the art and science of teaching, right? That Marzano's book is Art and Science of Teaching. But there is, there are some things that work and we know what they are, but how do we make them so that they become something beautiful, right?

Like we have this, uh, this aesthetic, like we were talking about. I don't want just a brown box classroom. I want something that is beautiful, that is aesthetically pleasing me and my students, and that they are actually learning so that when they leave, they're like. As they look around the room of, you know, in their mind like, yes, I learned and look at that beautiful spot where I understood, or I got to talk about this, or somebody enlightened me because of this, and we intentionally designed it for those purposes.

[00:39:46] Jessica: Well now you have us all inspired to go design beautiful lessons that are engaging in mathematics that go along with the the new math framework and encouraging us all to, to be able to, to [00:40:00] try these new things and get that discourse going with mathematics, personalizing the learning for our students, looking at the Skill Will Matrix, and designing for those students that are in the margins.

So. Is there any additional information you'd like to share regarding the math framework, math instruction, or opportunities to attend upcoming trainings or professional development? Anything else you'd like us to know?

[00:40:26] Melanie: This is a great time to, to learn about the framework, what's in there, learn with your peers, study it together, study the big ideas together.

Um, challenging how ideas are connected. Uh, we are offering some, some workshops. We're continuing our integrated learning series for our elementary teachers. K-6, uh, those are coming up. We have one in, in Rancho in December, and then another one in Apple Valley in January. Uh, for our secondary folks, we're doing, uh, best first practices [00:41:00] for our multilingual learners coming up in January in both Apple Valley and Rancho Cucamonga.

Okay. Just as, as people are starting to look at new curriculum material, we have a fair coming so people can look at it, but really think about, will the material help me do this better, easier again? 'cause we want to be, uh, we wanna work smarter and not harder. Will they provide some of these tasks? Will, will the material help encourage student discourse so that they become authors of their own mastery? And that they are empowered.

[00:41:39] Jessica: Those sound like amazing opportunities, so you don't wanna miss those. Uh, you can go ahead and Google SBCSS math and you could find the information online to be able to register for any of those opportunities. I highly recommend, like we talked about. Earlier in this podcast, I did attend a training that Melanie had [00:42:00] introduced The Skill Will Matrix, and it was life changing, so I encourage you to go.

You will probably leave with something that's life changing for you as well. So, Melanie, this has been a great conversation. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us on the mathematics framework, the Skill Will Matrix, and all of the other ideas that you've given us. You leave us all inspired to modernize our instruction and create equitable classroom practices so all our students can have access to rich, meaningful mathematics instruction and experiences.

[00:42:33] Melanie: Thank you so much. It was really my pleasure to be here.

[00:42:35] Jessica: It was a pleasure to have you. The SBCSS Digital Learning Services, asynchronous course. Blended Learning with AI, A Practical Guide for Educators is rolling out in 2026. This is a 12 week asynchronous course that walks participants through the promising practices of blended learning, while simultaneously building their knowledge of AI and familiarity with AI platforms.[00:43:00] 

University credits are available. If you are interested, please email Hannah Musa at hannah.musa@sbcss.net. That's hannah.mousa@sbcss.net. Thank you so much for listening. You can find additional resources in our show notes. Until next time, I'm Jessica Boucher, project specialist with SBCSS Digital Learning Services.

Join us next time for more bits and bytes of digital learning and computer science. And remember, if you are hungry for more, you can simply text DLS News 2 2 8 2 8, or find us on Twitter at SBCSS_EdTech.