Preparing for the Future: Navigating the AI Shift in Education with Rachael Mann

In this episode of Bits and Bites, we sit down with Rachael Mann, a powerhouse in the world of Career and Technical Education (CTE) and the visionary founder of EdFuture. As the author of the essential guide Pack Your Bags for an AI-Driven Future, Rachael joins us to unpack how educators and leaders can stay grounded while navigating the rapid rise of artificial intelligence.

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Transcript

Preparing for the Future: Navigating the AI Shift in Education with Rachael Mann

Intro music

Sonal: Welcome to the SBCSS Digital Learning Bits and Bytes podcast inspired by our dedication for equitable and inclusive educational technology and computer science. 

Omar: Welcome, welcome everyone, and thank you for joining us for today's Bits and Bytes podcast, where we have the honor of really hosting someone really amazing.

Um, I've been a fan for so long and it's exciting to be able to have an opportunity to engage with her, uh, during today's Bits and Bytes podcast. Joining us today is the Rachel Mann, a visionary who has spent over 14 years in the trenches of the classroom teaching everything from science to culinary arts before taking her expertise to the national stage.

She's the executive director of the NCLA and Founder of Ed Future, and a leading voice in how we prepare students for a world that feels like it's changing by the hour. A prolific author, really excited to have a quick chat about her book, pack Your Bags for an AI Driven Future. As an international keynote speaker and fellow podcaster, she's on a mission to help leaders and educators think bigger and lead with heart and stay ahead of the curve in an AI driven world.

Please welcome Rachel Mann. 

Rachel: Thank you so much for that lovely introduction. It's great to be here today. 

Omar: Oh, thank you. Thank you. I'm just honored to be able to have an opportunity to connect with you. You know, our team is still buzzing about the Back to the Future theme escape room we did during your recent workshop.

You know, it wasn't just fun, it was rigorous, and what really inspired me was the opportunity really to have an opportunity to engage with various AI tools, but really to not focus on, uh, the quick output, but really on crafting prompts. Now, I'm curious though, what inspired you to use the narrative of Dark GPT 88 and rescuing a digital Doc Brown to teach AI literacy?

Rachel: Yeah, great question. So I had, uh, developed an escape room for a client who, uh, they had, they had hired me for a PD and then wanted me to come back and work with their community college leaders. And they wanted an element of levity because AI can be really heavy conversations. They wanted to make it fun, intriguing.

And I love escape rooms. I love games, I love puzzles. So I decided to put together an escape room concept, which I'd never done before, and I wanted to, to make it to where there were some physical clues, but also the Google Doc piece where they're exploring a dozen different tools that they may not have experimented with before, and, um, it was, it was really well received. I remember one of the participants telling me that I had broken a table of Ph.D.s because they were, they were not the, they were not the group that won, but I was just like, wow, that's a, that's pretty wild to think that it was, you know, that it was challenging, but had that right amount of engagement.

And then a client in cop, uh, cop K 12 in, right outside of Atlanta. We have an ongoing partnership, a three year contract where. Uh, we do some virtual trainings and in-person trainings. So for a year two, she wanted, she had heard about the escape room and she wanted an escape room concept, but their theme for the PD day was Back to the Future.

Omar: Mm-hmm. 

Rachel: Now, I did not tell her this at the time, but even though I use little, uh, Back to the Future references and some of my PDs because I run across them and I, you know, I know the whole concept and they're so relevant when we're preparing people for a future that's nebulous.

And so, um, so I didn't tell her I'd never seen it, so I had to go home and start watching, having Back to the Future on, in the background as I was doing other things and getting to know the, uh, at the, the series a little bit better and ended up really having a working using Chat GPT to help me through revamping some of the prompts to add in those elements. So the Dark GPT 88 was actually a Chat GPT edition.

Omar: Mm-hmm.

Rachel: And it was that whole concept of the 88 miles per hour, which is a theme in Back to the Future. And so that was something that it, that it came up with, because previously it was just a Dark GPT so that, you know, that, that evil, uh, character. And so then it turned into the Dark GPT 88.

And then the virtual twin piece. You know, I'm, I'm fascinated by virtual twins and that's, you know, so many, like, it's multimodal aI tool. I have my virtual twin that looks like me, sounds like me, but speaks in 125 different languages. So it just made sense that if we're doing something digital that we're rescuing a virtual twin. 

Omar: Wow. Wow. That is really amazing. You know, I have to be honest, I am a huge fan of Back to the Future, I've seen the movies, um, probably at least a dozen times, and it's really been exciting to kind of look at we being in what we call the DeLorean moment right now here in education. In fact, I have the honor of serving as a national facilitator of MIT through their day of AI literacy curriculum, and we often talk about this idea of being in a moment that was once thought of when we were looking at themes such as Back to the Future. But one thing I noticed though is that during the game we had to rely on AI tools to beat the clock and solve the objective. I noticed that the game forced us to really stop Googling and start prompting.

What was the biggest aha moment you were hoping educators would have as they were racing against the clock? 

Rachel: So we are made for games. It's something that the whole gamification piece, sometimes we don't have time or we don't think to incorporate it, but it's not something that's for, for our students and learners.

It really is for adult PD as well, and it's as a facilitator watching how the room is so engaged. Every person is involved and they forget that they're learning, which is a powerful, and it's a powerful reminder as we think about how we design classes for our students, that this is a very effective technique.

And when people forget that they're learning, that's when some of the most powerful learning happens. With that, it also forces us to put ourselves into the role of a student when the, uh, the adult is so pressed for time, and they're copying and pasting that prompt into a tool and not realizing that there's a prompt injection and they're just moving on, and then discovering that later, like even though that was part of your instructions, it also helps to become more sympathetic as like, yeah, this is what our students are feeling.

They're so, so overwhelmed, impressed with time. There's this easy shortcut sometimes, and when they don't evaluate their output, it's similar to, I mean, it prompt, prompt injection is something that is dangerous. And for those of who are listening in, if you're not familiar with prompt injection, it's when there's some malicious code or even a text command that's hidden that you don't see that in this case would just produce a text response that that's unexpected.

But in other cases, it could be very damaging. It could, um, hack your, your program or your computer or whatnot. So, um, so it gives that perspective too. But I think that the more important side of it is for, for educators to really see why a student might have that temptation and why it's so important for them to teach, how to use the tools correctly and as part of a process like they will in the real world versus just substituting their own learning.

Um. And also too the, the idea that the AI detection tools, because one of the tools you're putting something that I used a really good prompt, and for most people it showed that it was human generated, even though it was completely AI generated. So showing that that prompting matters, but also AI detection tools are not reliable and we don't want to penalize a student or accuse them unfairly.

So several different things that, that, um, that I hope that the audience we we're able to pull as their takeaways as well. 

Omar: Wow. Wow. Well, acknowledging that our team happened to be the one to win, which was very exciting, by the way. Um, I was actually very, um, curious about the whole prompt injection thing.

I had never even heard of that concept before, and I remember our team copying and pasting in the, uh, text and beginning to work with the tools. And not getting the expected response and then reading the instructions to highlight the text, change the color, adapt the size. Say, hold on here. There was some hidden text here totally throwing us off.

And it makes you think about, I would say you're right, a malicious intent and the ways in which folks could use that. And I know there was some descriptions talked about during the workshop, whether it's on a resume or in the application. And I think part of that speaks to these ideas behind AI literacy.

Um, but I do wanna make sure I speak to this though, this idea of how your workshop really was very engaging. A lot of times you'll be in spaces and professional learning is just a sit and get experience, and that's not at all what we got here. We got a chance to get hands on minds on with tools to be able to ask each other questions, to be able to honor multiple perspectives.

And that was really one of the takeaways that as a professional learning provider myself, it makes me ask myself, well, gee, am I providing opportunities for the educators to engage with one another, to learn from each other? And I think you did an amazing job at creating that space during our workshop, so that was awesome.

One thing...

Rachel: I will, if you don't mind, I will mention here too that part of the reason that I designed my workshops that way is years ago, gosh, I think it was 2012 during my Master's program, I read the book Brain Rules by, by, uh, John Medina. And that really changed how I approached putting, putting anything together.

At that point, I had moved from the classroom into working with adult learners, and it had a huge impact on how I designed my presentations to make sure that. You're engaging with different parts of the brain, moving from multimedia to something, sometimes really serious and heavy, but you don't wanna keep someone's brain there too long.

So then you need to add that levity and that lightness and humor and, you know, just, uh, really keeping someone on almost a roller coaster throughout the PD so that they're, uh, shifting gears very quickly. 

Omar: Wow. Wow. You know, it really elevates these ideas around gamification. You know, gamification is often seen as just for students, but you use it effectively with the room full of adult professionals.

So how can administrators or coaches listening right now use that same playful, low stakes high engagement framework to introduce scary topics like AI to their own staff? 

Rachel: Uh, and, and I think that that's an important approach too, is looking at something that can be very, very, people have heard the horror stories of what can go wrong with AI, this dystopian future, and it's a part of our future, and we shape what the outcome is, the decisions that we make, how we use the tools, how we teach students to use the tools.

It's not something that happens to us. We are actually determining what's next with artificial intelligence. And I think that adding the levity and the opportunity to experience the tools is important. So I would recommend to anyone who is training adult learners. To find opportunities to gamify, and that can be time consuming.

I put a ton of time into putting together the tools and the, you know, the platform for it, but it doesn't have to be time consuming. It really can be some. Yesterday I was looking at how to approach a new version of the escape room, but making it geared towards preparing students for this future where they're gonna have to, uh, acre have reinvent themselves constantly.

They have to have agility and just some things that we're not used to teaching or measuring in the classroom. And I thought, this is, this is heavy. This needs to be gamified. So I used an AI agent, I used the, um, I've been, I've been experimenting with Gemini. A lot more lately because it's just the new updates are pretty amazing.

But I went back to, because chat GPT has all of my, all my memory, it's able to access the, the things that I've done in the past. So I went there and used an AI agent to, uh, I gave it the prompt and had it start building and creating the, uh, the whole concept, gave it the parameters. 60 minutes. For this one, I didn't want any, um, any prompts, any physical clues, all digital.

And while it was working, I made my breakfast. It was actually more of a brunch at that point. Had a call with my sister. I go back and I look at it and I'm like. This is pretty amazing. This is something that I'll be able to now go back and massage and, and turn, make it more my own, but that foundation's there.

So I think that even using the tools to get recommendations on how to gamify or take a PD, what you're currently doing, upload it into Gemini or Co-Pilot, whichever tool you prefer, and ask like, Hey, can, how can I think about this differently? How can I make sure it's more engaging to my audience and take advantage of, of those tools. 

Omar: Wow. Wow. Uh, for, in, in your description of that, you reminded me of an activity you had us do during the workshop where we were training our tool. And I remember the process of really thinking through how do I create a space within Gemini to where it knows whom I am, um, kind of my goals, what I'm working towards.

And it's been a very, I would say, um, um, improved set of outputs I've gotten. Since I've went back to engage with it since doing that, before, I was doing each individual prompt using a framework where I would kind of set my role, tell it what my expectations were, but using this kind of agentic strategy, I just go in there and it already knows that context.

And I think that's a really huge piece that has been very foundational for me, and I'm hopeful others too will be able to engage with that. One of the. ..

Rachel: Oh, I, I will throw in on that. So, so we really, I wanna mention that we are moving from prompt engineering into context engineering. 

Omar: Oh. 

Rachel: And it changes the way we looked at, look at the tools that we're using. Before you did have to identify act as if you are a, you know, the, the top performing doctor in the world or what, whatever it might be. Giving it the role, giving it all this different information, uploading our standards, but with context engineering, where you can just train it once, remember this and I want you to behave in this way and upload related documents, or create custom tools and some of the platforms, gosh, it's a game changer because it makes it even more of a, um, of an effective assistant for us.

Omar: No. Absolutely. Absolutely. And just thinking about that, I'll share because of what I've, uh, been able to develop, when I was in your workshop, having that frame, that context frame, I was able to go in and take a book that we're reading. It's, uh, by Priya Parker, the Art of Gathering, and I wanted to. Plan an icebreaker activity and it knew who I was, it knew the context of what I was trying to develop it for.

So I really would, I really would encourage the listeners that haven't yet tried to, uh, begin this space around context engineering to create that because it really has, um, supported saving time, but giving me more refined and improved outputs. So I think that was really amazing. Um, what I'd love to do right now though, if we could, is to take a trip, if you will, as we transition to thinking about some of the great ideas shared in your, your new book.

Pack Your Bags for an AI Driven Future. You know, as someone who's often wanting to know more about what are some ways I can more easily articulate what's behind the curtain, as you called it in your book of AI, this book did an amazing job of that. So in your book, pack Your Bags for an AI Driven Future.

You use the metaphor of travel, deciding what to pack, and crucially what to leave behind. In the context of our San Bernardino County classrooms, what is one legacy teaching practice you think we need to leave behind and make room for given AI? 

Rachel: Hmm. Yeah. You know, that's a, that's such an important question and that's, that's one of the harder ones because we get very attached to how we do things and what was important for us.

Omar: Right.

Rachel: And it, it requires a lot of reflection on what we're, what we're teaching, how we're teaching it, and what students really need for that future. One of the things that I immediately think of from a CTE context is looking at some of our, like, like when I was in the classroom teaching both culinary and technology and sometimes, you know, I ended up teaching science for a while, but I would do a lot of writing assignments.

And one of the assignments that I would do was having students write a paper about a career that they wanted to be a part of. And while writing is a very important skill because you wanna be able, you want students, if you, if you're not good at writing, you can't recognize whether something's a good output or not.

So we've, we've gotta have those foundational skills. But there's a lot of times where we could be doing something more. So creating an experience where the students now have amazing tools to create something that is a, that that could be more. So how can we look at it differently and have them create more of a, uh, you know, a passport activity or incorporating the tools that they're gonna be using in an AI driven world and make that part of the process.

Uh, and then two, also making it to where the students, when they are using the AI tools. They're learning how to really, truly reflect on the responses, how to engage with the tools, make sure the information is, is correct and accurate. Sometimes it can actually take even more time when they're going through that process of not just blindly accepting an output.

Um, but, but I would, I would just say that as one starter is, you know, getting into, gosh, we've, we've gotta make sure they understand the tools, um, and that they're able to move forward with, with that. 

Omar: Wow. Absolutely. Especially when you think about some of the goals within CTE really preparing our students for the careers that they're gonna step into as they leave our classrooms and into industry.

I know one of the things you often, uh, had referenced in your book was this idea that in many ways AI is guessing or predicting based on statistics, what that next word might be, and can sometimes even completely make up something, but it sounds plausible. But if you aren't being, I would say, discriminating in your evaluation of the output and you just take it as it is, you may not realize that, hey, I don't think this is actually true.

So I think that's definitely a valid point. But also a great opportunity for teachers to think about ways they can lean into AI, to help them come up with maybe some creative ideas. I love the way you describe this idea of creating experiences for students, and sometimes, I know it can be challenging when you've been working with one specific set of curricula, but now with given AI, it's an opportunity to reimagine some of that curriculum through a new experience for your students.

Now you often talk about moving from doing things better to doing better things. Now thinking back to our experience with that Back to the Future theme, now that game really did exemplify that shift. Now I'm wondering, is it about AI to write emails faster or is it about re-imagining the assignment entirely?

Rachel: Um, yeah, so, so, you know, honestly I think it's about both because when we're it there, we have to look at it as phases. When we're first working with staff and training them on how to use these tools, the best thing we can do is show them how to make their lives more efficient, how to re relieve some of the burdens of, of how much time, especially when you have folks coming in from industry into the classroom.

Their entire purpose was, I just wanna give back to students and work with students and share my skill and my craft. And then at 22%, according to some statistics, I think it's more of what they're doing is a lot of paperwork and administrative tasks. And, uh, showing them how to use these tools to make their lives more efficient.

Is A: going to help retain teachers because they're not leaving it most of the time. They're not leaving because of the students, it's because of everything else. So that's gonna make them feel more confident and proficient in their jobs. But then the next level comes in as, Hey, we've gotta think of this differently.

Especially if we're allowing students to use the tools in our classrooms. It can't be the same assignment, right? As the tools get better, the assignments have to become more rigorous, the outcomes have to be different, otherwise. They're going to take that same assignment and be able to complete it in no time, uh, if, if they're just using the AI tool and we're not taking it to the next level.

So I think it does, it does require that, those phases and making sure that we are upskilling our educators. In a way that really is, uh, it very deliberate and, and doing it in, um, building a bond. Just like if we were do, doing stackable credentials or anything else, you're gonna build that foundation and then, and then level up from there.

Omar: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It really is a nod to a theme in your work that while we can't predict the future, we can prepare for it. And I think that is grounded in having an understanding of how these tools work. You know, I often will say the, um, I would say mantra or statement that employers won't be asking if you use AI, but whether how you use it to be able to help increase whether they're bottom line, reaching their objectives.

That's really a, a huge piece a. As a CTE educator myself, um, in computer science and business and finance, I'm really curious about ways we can support our learners and really being ready for the cutting edge. These tools are evolving so rapidly. In fact, I just went to Gemini just yesterday and I saw that it had a new, uh, sound creation or music creation feature, and I was able to make a, a rap song about a, a workshop that I'm planning.

I'm like, wow, like this wasn't even here like two days ago. So it's like you have to be ready for what's coming next, even if you don't know what that might be. You know, I really wanna make sure that I acknowledge that it's such an honor to be able to gain insights from someone who has been able to see so many schools, engage with so many educators from around the world.

So, as we think about this, it really is interesting because you may or may not know, but San Bernardino County is actually the largest county in the nation. Now not, no, 

Rachel: I have no idea. 

Omar: Not by population, but by landmass. Uh, it is a huge county. Um, in fact, I'll find myself beginning my day here in Rancho Cucamonga, but we may have to go up to Big Bear to support schools in Bear Valley.

Or we may be over in Barstow, or we may be over in Silver Valley or Snowline. And these are huge geographic regions, all with unique needs. So, because we have such a diverse range of districts here in San Bernardino County, for the educators who are hesitant and who might see this idea of the tools that we're utilizing, um, as something that they wanna avert, for example, to say, next year we're going completely pen and paper, no tech at all, what advice would you have up to them to support them in maybe, um, understanding kind of this paradigm shift that's upon us?

Rachel: Oh gosh. You know, I, you know, I, I kinda laugh a little bit because I've, I've seen that and I think that it's something that is, it's a very common reaction is, hey, we're, we're going back. I had someone recently tell me that he had set everything up in, in Schoology on their, for their learning management system, and now he's gone back to pencil and paper. 

Omar: Right.

Rachel: And I'm like, you know what, cudos to you, because there is brain science that shows that when you're writing with pencil and paper that the kids are learning more. So I think. First of all, we have to honor and respect where they're coming from and understand that this, this is, this is a real fear and it's part of human nature to, to any, like looking at historically all of the big shifts that have happened, whether it was the printing press and scribes trying to sabotage the printing press 'cause they were afraid of losing their jobs, or the locomotive and the folklore about John Henry racing against the locomotive.

Or even, uh, electricity and this fear of, of it creating fires, which it did, it was, you know, there were some dangers to it first, but now we turn on a light switch and we don't, we don't think about the fact that how magical that is, kind of like, AI seems so magical at times. We just take it for granted.

Omar: Yeah.

Rachel: I think in the future we will just take AI for granted, but if I can imagine when electricity was first becoming a very commonplace that there were probably people saying. Hey, kids are not gonna be able to properly build a fire because they're so dependent on electricity and, and what's gonna happen when they can't build a fire.

Now I just, I just had a situation happen a few weeks ago where a huge snow storm. I've lived here for three years in, in Pennsylvania, and it was the biggest snow storm since I've been here. And, uh, everyone is preparing for the potential of ice building on the electrical lines and having a big power outage.

Omar: Wow. 

Rachel: Well, I have a fireplace I've never once used it and I don't know how to use it, so I, you know, bought some wood, bought some starter logs, and I started looking up how to make sure I'm using it correctly so I don't burn my house down. I'm like, you know. I'm gonna hold off on this. I'll just pull up YouTube and watch a video clip if, if we, if electricity goes out and, uh, ended up not having to use that skill at all.

But in my many years on this planet, I, I've never learned how to build a fire and I've, I've been fine. So there's gonna be things that people have a hard time letting go of that they think are so important because it's been important to them. Yeah, so respecting that, but then also just giving them some easy ways to learn the tool.

I was doing a PD in Chicago a couple of years ago. It was a half day AI PD, and this guy in the back raises his hand at the beginning and said, Hey, by the way. I am required to be here. I teach, um, plumbing and HVAC and um, I'm not ever gonna have to use AI, but I am getting paid to be here today, and I'm also here for the free food.

I'm like, oh, that's awesome. Good for you. So guy, like, started on an activity, activity and I go back and I'm like. Hey, so do you have to do like those three days of emergency lesson plans? And he is like, yeah, I am supposed to turn, I'm supposed to have mine ready for, for the fall. And you know, I'm like, well, why don't you just go into Chat GPT and at the, like, the free version that you don't even have to create an account for and, and put in, create three days of emergency sub plans.

And I'm like, what topic? And he gave a topic, he puts it in. He's flipping out. He is like, what is happening? And he's like, this is really good. He became my best student. Like he was just, every time we went through, he was just amazed, excited, where was this when I, when I was a kid? And, and you know, it was just, it was a game changer for him.

But first I respected and acknowledged that like, yeah, that's fine. That's all right if you don't wanna learn how to use it.

Omar: Wow.

Rachel: And, and I think that we need naysayers. Like we, we need people who are going to point out what's wrong.

Omar: Right.

Rachel: Um, we, it can't. Everyone's a cheerleader for AI. There are some very scary aspects of AI and as long as our students are learning AI literacy in some of their classes.

Omar: Right.

Rachel: I'm fine with some teachers pushing back and deciding to go old school. Go for it. But our kids still need to be prepared for an AI future and they need to see it. And, and especially in their CTE classes. Yeah. Um, and, and in some other, other places. You know, that's, that, that's my approach to it. 

Omar: Wow. I really appreciate that mindset towards honoring where they are. I know as someone who's a champion for technology, digital literacy, computer science education, I sometime will stand on my soapbox, unwavering, but I definitely think there's something to acknowledging where someone is and to, I would say even anchor your response and looking at the positive, the positive aspects of it, whether it being connected to brain science or their hope force for the learners that they're working with.

So before we wrap up, I do want to have an opportunity to kind of vision forward. So as we think about this, if you could hop into a real DeLorean and visit San Bernardino County, let's say 10 years into the future. So it's 2036, what's one thing you hope you wouldn't see anymore and one thing you would hope you would see thriving.

Rachel: Yeah. You know, I would say that I would hope that everyone is looking at education from personalization, hyper-personalization, that we're exploring ways to make instead of even having 14 career clusters, which it was just switched from 16 to 14, that we have endless career clusters that we're able to use these tools in front of us to really customize to meet a student's idea.

And then also seeing an idea of everyone co-creating and co-learning. Of course, we need that teacher in the classroom who is the instructor who's guiding the process.

Omar: Right.

Rachel: But we can't look at it as, as being separate because our edu we're gonna be learning and modeling self-improvement. Um, you know, there's so many ways in the world that we live in to be able to upskill.

But our education system is still geared towards a K-12 system and sometimes K-16, but really thinking about the life cycle and model to our students that they are going to consistently have to upskill and re-skill, and maybe even coming back to that same learning spaces through adult education programs, having just, uh, one-off programs that may not even have a degree attached to it or a certificate or anything.

It is just. Hey, I need to get this new concept of right now. It might be vibe coding. Who knows what it'll be in, you know, 10 years from now, but that they're able to come and just pick up quickly a skill, either in person or virtually and really making it even, um, moving, moving some of the barriers of time that we currently see.

I have tons of ideas and to be honest, so Omar. It is, it's, it's wild to see. 'cause every, every year in January I look at the predictions, what are the forecasts for the year ahead? 

Omar: Right. 

Rachel: And to see some of these big companies like McKenzie and Company and, uh, and others saying, we're really having an a hard time articulating what skills are gonna be necessary and we need to start planning for multiple futures instead of just one future.

Wow. This is a paradigm shift for people who depend on that data and depend upon those forecasts to know that, that it, it's changing. Um, it's, it's going to be a lot of, a lot of being able to be, um, be adaptable and being able to, uh, to make adjustments very quickly. 

Omar: I love that. I love this idea of having a posture towards lifelong learning in a reality where you can see the tools as ways to help you personalize learning solutions for all your learners.

That is amazing. That is amazing. Well, hey, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, uh, Rachel Mann, it's been such an honor to learn from you, to take some strategies that I can bring into my own work, and hopefully for the listeners, for them to hear a few tips. That can inspire them to be open to learning and taking advantage of these tools as they can support them in their own context.

Thank you so much. 

Rachel: Uh, thank you one, Omar, it's been such a pleasure and an honor to have this conversation with you and also to learn from you. And I I am excited about a future where we are. Constantly at co-collaborating and co-learning with others. 

Omar: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, hey, thank you everyone for listening to our Bits and Bytes podcast. We look forward to seeing you or sharing with you in our next iteration. Thank you so much. 

Sonal: Join us next time for more bits and bytes of digital learning and computer science. And remember, if you are hungry for more, you can simply text DLS News to 2 2 8 2 8 or find us on Twitter @sbcssEdTech.

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