What's New in Archlou
What's New in Archlou
Why Don’t Catholics Do That?
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Host Dr. Brian Reynolds, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Louisville, welcomes Dr. Karen Shadle, Director of the Office of Worship, to answer the question, “Why Don’t Catholics Do That?” Dr. Reynolds and Dr. Shadle discuss why Catholics don’t like to sit up front, why Catholics can’t go to confession over the phone, why can’t women be priests or deacons, and so much more.
Hello everyone. I'm Brian Reynolds, the Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Liverpool. Welcome to our podcast series, What's New in Archloop? This show highlights the people and ministries of the Archdiocese, the Catholic Church in Central Kentucky. Join us each month as we welcome new guests and discuss local topics for the church and for our community, as we invite you to get more involved with your Catholic faith. This program is brought to you by the Archloop Podcast Network. Well, ladies and gentlemen, viewers and listeners, we made it to April. That's terrific. I don't know where 2026 is going, but it's going fast. In Kentucky, for those of you who are hearing us elsewhere, that means we're warming up already for Derby season the first Saturday in May. So, but we're going to talk about April 1st, which is what we're doing right now. Um for our regular listeners, you may remember that we have had three episodes where we've asked Father Jeff Schoener, the Vicar General of the Archdiocese, to answer the question, why do Catholics do that? On a whole variety of topics. And we had lots of great lessons and lots of little stump Father Jeff questions, a lot of fun with that. So, well, today we're going to reverse that premise a little bit and answer a slightly different question. Why don't Catholics do that? And we'll be covering the several liturgical topics. So we brought in our very own liturgical expert to answer why Catholics don't do that. With us, we're happy to welcome back Dr. Karen Schadel, who's the director of worship for the Archdiocese. I want to remind everybody that Karen is a fourth-time visitor to this show. She and her husband Doug have two children and are members of St. Raphael's Parish. But we all know her as the answer person for every liturgical question, and we get to ask some of those. But first, Karen, welcome. Glad you're here.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for having me. And it's my fourth time, so I think next time I get a jacket.
SPEAKER_00A jacket, that's right.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Now, um, anything you want to say about yourself besides what I said? Uh Ray Fields, Doug, two kids, worship director. Anything else you want to tell us?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I just celebrated 10 years in the Office of Worship, which is hard to believe. But, you know, one of the fun things that I've noticed over the years is that we have sort of become the Department of Weird Questions. You know, we we do get a lot of trivia. And I love that because I have a background in um in history and research. And, you know, we are people who deal in documents and liturgical books, and there is more of that stuff to read than there is time to read it. And so we get sent on a lot of fun little quests for these little trivia moments, and so that's kind of the genesis of today and why we're here to talk about some of that minutiae that's that's a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00That'll be fun for for everybody, I think. So very good. Um, I think we're gonna start out with some easy ones, maybe, but we'll do some challenging ones too. So first question of why Catholics don't do that. Um, let's let's look at the question about um lady uh mass attendance, those kind of questions. And uh something that people say all the time about Catholics is you notice they never sit in the front pews. So why is it the Catholics don't like to sit up front during mass?
SPEAKER_02Uh well, I wish they would, but I I I think the answer to this question lies in the nature of our liturgy as Catholics, which is it is participatory, right? The people who come to Mass are part of the Mass in a very real sense. It's not it's not like going to a concert or going to a Broadway show or something like that where you're going to observe something. If you go to a Broadway show, you want the best seat. You want to sit in the front. But uh the nature of our liturgy is that the people who are in the assembly, they have a role to play. They've got postures to take, they've got gestures, they have words they're supposed to say back and forth. And so I think that puts a little bit of an extra burden on the people in the front because they don't have anyone to look to. They have to know what they're doing, and other people are going to look to them to know what they're doing, they have to know when it's time to get in the procession and all of these things. And so that's one aspect of it. Uh, the other is, you know, if if the people are part of the show, so to speak, then the best seats are in the back, because then you can observe everything that's happening. So if you think of that stage analogy, it's not a perfect analogy because of course we're not doing play acting. Um, but really the stage is the whole church. And so the best seats are the ones where you can see everything and everybody. And so I think that's why people like to sit in the back. I don't know though, you can tell me if I'm right or wrong on that.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm not going to challenge that. However, I do think some people don't like to sit up front because it's harder to sneak out early.
SPEAKER_02Oh, for sure. Yeah, that's part of it too. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Now, um lots of families these days uh have uh members who have different faith expressions and are part of different faith traditions through marriage or practices and otherwise. Um and of course, weddings, funerals, celebrations, people who have different faiths attend our churches. And when they do, one of the things that they often uh uh uh uh uh read and hear about is that non-Catholics are not invited to receive Holy Communion. Can you tell us why or not can't non-Catholics reveal holy communion?
SPEAKER_02Sure. So one of the important dogmas of our faith is the the doctrine of the real presence. And so this states that we believe as Catholics that Jesus is truly present in the bread and wine that is consecrated at communion, it truly becomes the body and blood of Christ. That is remarkably different from some of our other Christian brothers and sisters. And so the idea is that out of reverence for that very important doctrine that we hold, uh only folks who have been formed in that doctrine, who on some level level are assenting to and agreeing with that doctrine are to come forward. Now, um folks who are not Catholic can come forward and and uh be acknowledged by the minister. That's that's not an issue whatsoever. And also folks who are interested in learning more about that, you know, that might be a nudge and a call to look at the OCIA process and maybe become Catholic. So it's not a forever ban, you know, it's it's a welcome really to learn more about that important doctrine of our faith. So we ask people who who are receiving Holy Communion to assent to that doctrine of the real presence.
SPEAKER_00Very good. That's really clear. I know that that people often have that I'm not allowed. And it's really not that. It's really about a belief, and this is what you're saying if you receive, and they're not really saying that.
SPEAKER_02Right. And if if that's something where where you're like, oh, I do believe that, well, I think that is the Holy Spirit sort of nudging you towards conversion, maybe. Maybe.
SPEAKER_00Now, there was a time, here's a little trivia one, where people would get kind of dressed up for mass. In fact, people use the term Sunday best. Um but dress codes isn't something we usually talk about. But I've noticed that people are far less likely to dress up than they were, you know, decades ago when I was a youngster and and everybody had to seem to get specially dressed. I know the Vatican still has a dress code, at least most of the year. Sometimes in the real hot summer, they're a little bit uh uh give a little leeway there, but normally um men are supposed to wear pants, not shorts, women's shoulders are supposed to be covered. Those are types of things the Vatican asks people to do when they visit to St. Peter's, not just the other sites, the museum and so forth, but the uh Saint the Basilica. So why don't people get dressed up anymore?
SPEAKER_02Well, uh oh boy. Um I think that there is a just an overall casual casualization of just our culture in general and and secularization sort of spills over into that a little bit. Um I also think it has to do with the history of Catholicism, in that a lot of the the folks who were Catholic um in immigrant communities that were coming over were working class and um farming communities and this sort of thing, and so maybe didn't have the kind of wardrobe that other communities might have had. Um, even in our own archdiocese, we still have very rural communities where you might be working the farm and going to mass in the same day. And so, you know, a diocese-wide or even a parish-wide dress code sometimes won't translate very well. But I do think it's really good advice to tell people to dress in the upper end of your wardrobe, whatever that is, whatever the top 10% of your wardrobe is, that is what you should wear to church for uh out of reverence for the sacrament. And um, I think as part of a community of faith, we really are trying to put forth our best for God in that situation. So that could be more casual. Think about college campuses. People don't have you know fancy clothes sometimes if as college students, but whatever that top end of your wardrobe is, that's where I would go for church. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Good good explanation. I do know that that sometimes beach communities have a different style. Uh years ago when I lived in New England, uh uh if you were near a uh snow uh a skiing resort, and after skiing you'd go to mass on the way home, people were walking in with uh you know all sorts of ski clothing on, um look like they should be outdoors. So, but they were going to massive.
SPEAKER_02And certainly, you know, it's better to be at mass in whatever you are in than to skip it altogether. And so we should never take an attitude of judgment here. I think that's very important to say as well. Um, but if we're being intentional, if we're looking in our closet and saying, What am I gonna wear today? Uh look at that upper 10%.
SPEAKER_00Okay, very good. Okay, okay. Speaking of judgment, one of the things you hear people sometimes talk about is you're sitting in my seat. Um uh we're creatures of habit, and people generally I observe and hear sit at l close to the same place when they go to mass. Just like at the at uh dinner table at home, people tend to sit in the same seat um year in and year out. Um and uh people sitting in my seat happens particularly around the high holidays where the regular crowd who comes to mass every Sunday is smaller than Christmas or Easter or special feast days, and they get there and there's people sitting where I usually sit. So that that creates a funny sense of people are in my seat. So this my seat question um actually dates back, there was a time that in the Catholic Church and in other Christian denominations, there was something that referred to as a pew tax that people actually paid kind of to reserve their pew. What can you tell us about pew taxes? Why don't we do that anymore?
SPEAKER_02Well, we don't do that anymore because everything in the church, or I should say nothing in the church belongs specifically to you or me. Um, it all belongs to all of us as the Christian community. And, you know, there was a time, you're correct, where you made a donation and something was yours. And that could have been a pew, or that could have been a piece of art, or it could have been any number of things in the church as a way of raising funds. Um, they will still cash your check if you write a pew tax check, I'm sure. Uh, but you don't get your name on the pew. And that that goes to that um aspect of it all belongs to all of us, okay? And I think it is important, as you pointed out, that when you come to church on a day, it's confirmation or it's Christmas or it's Easter, and someone is in your seat to say hello, welcome, and go sit somewhere else and be just very gracious about it because we all want our church to grow, and those are opportunities to evangelize.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure some of our listeners will r notice some older churches still have a little piece of metal or plastic at the end of the pew that it's empty now, but it used to be a place where we would slide in a name card like that. Um they also had uh places where people could hang their hats, uh a little uh snap that you could uh hook your hat on to. Those things don't appear very much in in newer design churches, but they were part of the history. And if you go to older churches, you see those kinds of things. Okay. Now, a l a lot of people try to ask for um kind of like the clothing situation. Um things that we could do that would make things more convenient or easy. Uh one of them that people often say is about let's take the sacrament of reconciliation, going to confession. I've heard people ask, why can't we just do that on the telephone? Uh some people would say, Why can't we just go out to the woods and talk to God? And they could certainly do that. But to receive the sacrament, you need the priest. So why can't we do that on the telephone?
SPEAKER_02Yes, great question. And of course, we all went through these questions uh during COVID in a very specific way. Um, and of course, sacraments are never virtual, they are always person to person. So there's really two things when we're dealing with confession, why you can't do that over the phone or in a chat room or anything of that nature. The first is that sacraments are always person to person. There's a carnal aspect to this. Um, that uh that community, it those two people, even though we think of penance as being this super private sacrament, it is public in the sense that it's the church and the penitent. It's the priest representing the church. And so there is a communal aspect even to that very private sacrament that has to be done person to person, me looking at you. Um, and then the other aspect has to do with technology and privacy. And phone call, you all know this, your phone's always listening to you. Everything you say, you're gonna get ads about it and all of that stuff. So technology is never fully private. We can never ensure that it's private. And of course, with the sacrament of confession, that is of utmost importance. So those are the two main reasons for that sacrament.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Let's pick another sacrament. The sacrament of ordination uh to the deaconate or the priesthood. We asked Father Jeff this question, uh, and we heard his answer, but I'd like to get uh uh lay persons or lay women's perspective. Why can't women be priests or deacons?
SPEAKER_02Okay, so again, let me give you two main uh reasonings, two main lines of reasonings. The first is um Jesus' call to the apostles and the apostolic succession. So all of our priests have been ordained by a bishop, and we can trace all of those bishops back, back, back to the original apostles. And some people will say, well, Jesus lived in a time where it wouldn't have been right to choose women as apostles. But Jesus did choose women for very specific roles. Um He was radically inclusive of women, and so he had every opportunity and did not choose the women as apostles to be part of that apostolic succession. He chose them to do different roles in the spreading of his gospel. Um so that's one reason. The second is that the priest is ordained to be, we in Latin we say in persona christi, in the person of Christ. And Christ came to earth in a specific way as a man, as a human man. And so if the priest is conformed to Christ, if his life is supposed to be as close to Christ as possible, if in the Mass he is acting as Christ, to be a man is a very important part of what Christ was and then what the priest is. I say all of that, and I think it's very important to say that we separate this question of can women be ordained from the question of can women be leaders in the church, which the answer to that is yes, the women are to be leaders in the church in all of the ways that you're leaders in any field in this world. And so that call remains. The church all the way up to the Pope has affirmed that in a variety of ways. So we need to separate those two questions first and foremost, and uh say yes to the one and no to the other.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, people often look about is that fair, those kinds of things. And the question, uh I'm glad you make that distinction about women leaders, because I want to point out just briefly here, you're one in our diocese to have the head of the office of worship to be a woman. Our head of Catholic charities is women, our superintendent of schools, our editor of our newspaper, our director of communications, uh, the head of multicultural ministries, and I can go on and on. Um, there's there's so many women who are serving leaders. In fact, when we get our 21 department heads together, over half of them are women because that's how we have evolved as a local church. But um, this this idea of being excluded from orders makes some people sensitive, and it's an interesting topic. We'll probably talk about it at another show, folks, and uh, we're gonna have a show later on this year on the deaconate, and there's still those who call for women to serve as deacons because there was some different understanding in early church of what that role was and who was able. We'll get that clarified in that show. Your answer was perfect for this show. Sure.
SPEAKER_02I would say don't demote me, please. No, no, no, I don't want to be a deacon. I'm good here.
SPEAKER_00Um another another sacrament, uh, weddings. Uh this is April, so we're moving into heavy wedding season, and the calls always come in. Why can't priests just have a wedding on a beach somewhere? Because I like being outdoors and I like doing that on vacation, and more people can come. And so why why does the church have restrictions on where weddings happen?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, this is a great question. So all the sacraments always happen uh according to canon law, according to liturgical law, sacraments happen in the church out of dignity for those sacraments. Uh, it's about the dignity of the sacraments, about seriousness. And uh, as long as it is physically possible to have those sacraments in a church, we do that. There are times um, you know, we were talking about papal masses that, you know, there's too many people to fit them in the church. You know, there are exceptions for physical impossibility. Um, but when we think about weddings, we're talking about a larger culture. We we've got an analog for that sacrament in the larger culture, right? There are shows on TLC about weddings and all of this, and people have weddings, you know, um, scuba diving or at the Taco Bell or wherever. And we have to ask ourselves: it does that respect the dignity of the sacrament? We are asking God and the church to be a part of this sacred marriage, and uh we should do that in the place where the community, the church, gathers. Um, you know, I think a good way of thinking about this is to think about the other sacrament of vocations, which is holy orders, which we just mentioned. And so those are equal in dignity, right? They are both sacraments ordered to the salvation of others in matrimony, it's ordered to the salvation of the spouse and children and in orders, it's um ordered to the salvation of the people of God, the flock that you shepherd. And so if it would seem ridiculous for an ordination, it should be ridiculous for a wedding as well. So if we're not willing to do scuba diving ordinations or beach ordinations or um space station ordinations, which all of those should sound totally ridiculous to you, we shouldn't consider that for weddings either, because they're equal in dignity. It's not that weddings are less important than ordinations. So I think thinking about those sacraments as very similar kind of helps us answer some of those questions about what's allowed. Can my dog be a ring bearer? Well, you know, would we have a dog in an ordination? No, we wouldn't, because that sort of reduces the dignity of that sacrament, and that's kind of where we come from.
SPEAKER_00So dignity is the key thing.
SPEAKER_02It is absolutely the key. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Karen, you're having such great answers to these complex questions. Thanks so much. Okay, come work. Um one of the things it's connected to orders, but it's not exactly the same thing. It has to do with what's called lay preaching, where uh people who are not ordained, men and women, are invited to to offer some sense of reflection or preaching to help us clarify what's going on there.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So when we're talking about the mass and the homily, specifically in the mass, that is reserved for your ordained ministers, really without exception there, because that's part of the grace of their ordination. It's part of the gifts they receive. Of course, it's not magic, they receive appropriate formation in how to do that. When we're outside of Mass, um, or even before or after Mass, or we're in a prayer service or liturgy of the hours, those are opportunities for other people, lay people, and even uh like retreats and parish missions and things of that nature. People who are specialized in a field or have some special witness to give, um, those are good opportunities for lay preaching. The church allows for that. Um, but when we're talking about mass, um, it is to be focused on the ordained minister there.
SPEAKER_00Okay, very good. Um let's move away from um this kind of permission or inclusion questions to a couple other things. What's what seemingly has Changed over decades has been what used to be called the last rites, and now you we talk about the sacrament or the anointing of the sick. Those are not exactly the same thing. So why can't we do both or can we do both? What's the what's the connection here?
SPEAKER_02So when we say last rites, we're we're actually talking about a bucket of three different sacraments all at once.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Uh so we're talking about anointing of the sick, we're talking about reconciliation, and we're talking about viadicum, which is a special name for uh holy communion. Holy communion uh can be brought to the sick at any time, but when it's towards death, we have this special name for it, viaticum, which means bread for the journey. And so those three sacraments together have kind of been bucketed into what we know or refer to or think of as the last rites. Anointing of the sick, the fruit of that sacrament is healing. And so this is a change from those who remember like Baltimore Catechism days when it was called extreme unction and it was thought of as solely a deathbed sacrament. You would do that right before you died. The fruit of the sacrament is now considered to be healing. So you should receive it whenever you're ill, mentally, physically, or otherwise. Um, because the idea is we hope you are healed. And then so you receive that throughout your life, including at the end of life. Um, but the idea is that it probably for most of us would be repeated several times throughout our lives.
SPEAKER_00So then viaticum and and anointing as opposed there's three. Again, I'm just trying to guess when when do we get the others? One's when I'm sick. What do I got?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, and this is another thing. I a lot of people think you need to wait until like the last moment. Yeah. And so that makes people, a lot of people anxious. And there is there is no reason for that. I always try to tell people as much as possible when we teach these classes on communion to the sick and homebound, is to encourage people to receive these sacraments all the time. You don't have to wait until the last moment. Uh I mean you shouldn't wait until the last moment because sometimes we don't get the the benefit of knowing when that last moment is. It could come for any of us at any moment. And so it's important to reach out for those sacraments. If you're someone who's homebound or unable to make it to mass, um, you should be communicating regularly with your parish so that someone can visit you and offer communion to you and uh reconciliation that you still have access to those things at all points of an illness along the way.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00So the key message here is remember last rites is plural.
SPEAKER_02It's not a last rights.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, very good. That's terrific. Okay. Now, by comparison purposes, some other Christian denominations, traditions like to proclaim we're saved. That's not something Catholics say. I think Catholics are saved. But what what is why why don't we say we're saved?
SPEAKER_02That's a good question. Uh, I think the right answer to when were you saved, which is you know that classic question that you'll hear in some of those Protestant circles. Uh, the right answer is 2,000 years ago on Calvary. That's when you were saved. Um, that is when all of us were saved through no merit of our own. We didn't really do anything to deserve that we were saved. Now, the work of salvation, which is that journey towards heaven that all of us are on, is a continual process. It is something that we are always working towards. So, in a sense, you are saved and you are being saved. It's a both and kind of question. You are you are saved um because of Jesus' death and resurrection. But we continue that work of trying to get to heaven by the choices we make every day. So it's a both and.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Both end. That's very Catholic to be both end. Good. Uh listen, one of the one of the um the April is a time of year in our archdiocese and in many other dioceses where one of the things people are waiting for is the announcement of new appointments. Who's going to be the next pastor? Or who's going to be the next associate pastor? Or where is a priest going to be assigned? Um now in some faith traditions, they choose or even vote on their leaders. Uh why don't Catholics do that?
SPEAKER_02Well, um, you know, there is a danger there in popularity contests um because you can sort of become a cult of the personality. And I think that we do find that sometimes in some other traditions. Um, that process of choosing who the shepherd is for a particular community is something that the archdiocese and and all dioceses really take very seriously. It's something that the bishop prays about with those who are helping him to make those decisions. It's something that we believe is guided by the Holy Spirit and not a democratic process. You know, there's plenty of things in our faith that are not popular in the literal sense of if we took a vote, would everybody agree on this dogma? Probably not, you know. And so the idea that it's guided by the Holy Spirit and not by what most people want is very countercultural. Yeah. Um, but it it's us, you know, that's who we are.
SPEAKER_00We we do we do get recommendation letters. People do write in their cards. I'm sure you do. I'm sure you get lots of those. Another one came in today. Okay. Um, one there's so many more questions and time is running. Karen, um uh there was a time where um uh parishes had boundaries. Now we actually still have boundaries to this day. But most Catholics, A, don't even know those boundaries, and we do know that most Catholics pass other churches on their way to their church of choice. We we like to think of them as destinations. Um so uh why do we ignore parish boundaries these days?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I think it has to do with modernity and the fact that we're all super mobile and we all like to have what we like. Um, you know, and that's just modernity, I think. I think um, you know, there's this idea of working with and living with and worshiping with the people around you. And I think there's something really beautiful to that. Um it's maybe a little more nostalgic than contemporary culture will allow, but I I do really like the idea of living with the people that you worship with and seeing the people in the pews that you see, you know, when you're driving home. And so I think there's a real benefit to, even if it's a canonical, you know, just sort of an acronym of the parish boundaries, of knowing who is in your boundaries and worshiping with the people around you. So I know not everybody does that, you know, everybody drives past, but there's a certain logic to that.
SPEAKER_00I think people like to go where they're massive. We have mass in seven different languages. Yeah. Every church has those and different kinds of music and different kinds of mass schedules. And and where can I go to mass this particular week because of what's going on in my life? So lots of reasons why people go it's okay though, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh absolutely. We have conven we like convenience as Catholics, and that that is perfectly fine. Um, going to mass is the most important thing. Where you go to mass is up to you.
SPEAKER_00Okay. A couple quick questions before we wrap up. We just came through Lent. We're still saying happy Easter. It's in April now, so um during Lent, we're obviously not supposed to eat meat on Fridays during Lent. Why are we allowed to eat lobster, shrimp, other fancy dishes, but we can't eat meat? What's that about?
SPEAKER_02There's a couple of theories here. One is the idea that warm-blooded animals are like more precious and um they were they were created on a different day of creation than the cold-blooded sea creatures. Yes. So so there is a logic that like cold-blooded creatures are allowed because they're simpler. You know, that's I think here we have to separate the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The letter of the law says, you know, fish are allowed. And some dioceses have uh done inquiries about uh, you know, like alligator and snake and turtle and reptile stuff is is all on the menu as well, because they're cold cold-blooded too. So there's some logic to that. But the spirit of the law is about sacrifice, simplicity, and giving something up. And so in the spirit of the law, you know, if fish is a sacrifice and giving something up, that's great. But going to the lobster fest, you know, uh and you know, gorging yourself on shellfish is not in the spirit of the law, even if it is in the letter of the law. Okay, right.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Now, okay, so so you just said it there. So gator is a fish.
SPEAKER_02Gator is not a fish, but it is allowed.
SPEAKER_00But it's not a meat. All right, I don't know what that is. All right, we could probably debate that. How about there's new things called um plant-based burgers.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Well, I mean, I have personal opinions about that. Me too. They are not of God, but they are on the within the letter of the law, right? Okay, so if you want to have a plant-based burger, you can go right ahead. But I would still say within the spirit of the law, if that is a sacrifice for you, then yes. Okay. But if that is a an indulgence for you, which I don't know how it could be, but um I'm with you on that one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. A couple of real quick questions. Is it more Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit?
SPEAKER_02Uh Holy Spirit is the official translation, but there's nothing wrong with Holy Ghost. We see it in music all the time because it rhymes better than spirit.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Whatever happened to limbo?
SPEAKER_02Limbo is a hypothesis and not a dogma. Uh, it's uh the hypothesis that there's a special place where babies go who are unbaptized, uh, but that's been debunked. Uh, we can trust in God's mercy that they're in heaven.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02It's just the lightning round. It's lightning round.
SPEAKER_00I just only got two minutes left. So all right, how about indulgences? We used to get indulgences for doing certain things, and we still can.
SPEAKER_02Yes. A lot of people think indulgences went away. They did not. It's just the abuse of selling and you can't buy and sell them. Uh, but like the Jubilee year, divine mercy, all of those indulgences are available. You say special prayers. It's not a substitute for confession. You have to do it with confession. It's another misconception. Um, go to mass, go to confession, you get indulgence, you get time off of purgatory, however, that works.
SPEAKER_00All right. Karen, we could go on. I'm gonna have to just wrap this up here because our time is up. Dr. Karen Schadel, our liturgical expert, and now we know that she's an expert on gator and fake meat foods and many other things. Thank you for two things for being here today. We're really grateful for your wisdom being here at the other times as well. But also for what you do every day in service to this local church. We have great liturgy, and you help resource that, and we're all grateful. So thank you.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_00And listeners and viewers, thanks for joining us for the April edition of What's New in Archloo. See you again next month.