When you stop PERFORMING you get your ENERGY back | Angel Desantis

Angel shares how living in Los Angeles made community and confidence feel effortless, then moving to Jakarta created a full-on identity crisis: different beauty standards, different social rules, and suddenly no easy place to fit. Instead of forcing a new persona, we explore dissolving the old one and sitting in the blank slate long enough for something truer to appear.

We also get practical about energy, power, and embodiment. When you stop performing for approval, you get your energy back. When you stop trying to fix people, you stop bleeding yourself dry. And when you use the body as a truth meter through breathwork, yoga, and somatic awareness, you can navigate relationships with more clarity, including knowing when something has moved from weird to painful to harmful. We close with the sharp distinction between pain and suffering, and a reminder that choice and power are almost always closer than they feel.

If this hits, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s rebuilding, and leave a review so more people can find it. What part of your identity are you ready to let go of next?

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Watch this episode and many more on my Youtube channel! 👀
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Transcript

Dating After Leaving A Cult

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Huh?

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 0:02

Hey. Opa. Rock it. All right. We were about to do a screen recording on an Instagram uh video.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Yes. That's wild.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

Uh so yeah, dating after a long-term relationship, specifically when coming out of the cult. Um, yeah, what was your experience like?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

It was just weird because I didn't know. And so I remember going on a date with someone, and this is obviously you'll see the trauma come out. We were walking down the street.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Wait, how did you uh when is this?

SPEAKER_00 0:44

This was like when I was 31. I was in Texas.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

This is right out of how many years out of the cult?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

I had been out for a while, but I had never dated. So I left at 23, but I was married until 30. Then I just I when I got divorced, I didn't want to date. Um, but then after uh like a year, I was like, okay, he had moved on, and I felt good about that. So I was like, okay, I I can now also put a toe in the water. Um, so went on this for the first time ever, ever, ever. Ever. No, it was it was so strange.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

People talk about first date nerves, like your nerves had to be crazy. Like you're like, I don't even have never done this at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

I've never done it. And the thing is, it's not like I could go to I at the time, now I realize I could have, but I didn't feel like I could go to anybody for help because all the people who had left the cult, they had been dating for a while because they had left when they were, you know, also 23 or younger, and so they had been in the dating game for a while. And then everyone else, yeah, everyone starts dating in college. So they were like, What do you mean this is your first date? So I was like, I'm just not gonna tell anyone, I'm just gonna wing it. But I was walking down the street with him, and I was near the road, and he, as we were walking, just sort of gently grabbed my arm and just switched me to the other side. Yeah, and I was so upset because I was like, he's trying to control me. Like, what are you doing? Oh, I was like, Why did you do that? And he was like, What do you mean? Because for him, it was so like it's just how he exists in the world, so it didn't even clock for him what he was doing, but he had moved me. So I was like, What are you doing? Why are you doing this? And he was like, Oh, it's so you don't get hit by cars, and I was like, Well, that's nice.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

So decide if I want to get hit by cars or not, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Exactly. How dare you! What if I wanted to get hit by a car? But yeah, many mishaps.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Uh, did you was it something you disclosed at the date where you're like, just so you know, I've never done this and I also grew up in a cult, so like I may not really get the lingo here.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

No, no, I mean he knew I'd grown up in a cult, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna at 31 tell this person like you're my first date ever. It's like I'm gonna keep that, I'm gonna keep that to myself and I'm gonna power through. Yeah. So how did it go? It was great, it was sweet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think since the call, because my radar is what it is, um I've had really lovely encounters mostly. Because I just won't go on a date if there's not, if you're not kind and if you're not gentle, and if you're not like all these things, because I was used to a bunch of other, I was used to the opposite. So I thought, okay, if I'm gonna get into dating, let me make sure that it's somebody who is yeah, like love.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Yeah, it seems to be like um, you know, you kind of I don't know if it's the right way to say it, but you kind of blame yourself for the type of people you go on dates with.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Yeah, well, I mean, to be fair, you you kind of are in some ways, right? It's like a collaboration, but like you also have a role. Yeah, you you you did the vetting process here.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

You gave this person the inline.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

The other thing that I very much enjoy, because when I lived in LA, people would be like, Isn't dating in LA terrible? For me, a very bad date is really funny because I know I'm gonna talk to it, I'm gonna talk about it with my sisters later. So if I'm on the date and it's really bad, I actually am like still having a good time because I'm like, oh my god, I can't wait to get in the get on the phone when I get in the car and just yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Um, are you dating now?

SPEAKER_00 4:45

No, because I am in Jakarta, and that's a whole other a whole other thing. But basically, it's uh a whole identity crisis. This this might be a fun, interesting topic.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

Let's talk about it. Why are you in Indonesia?

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Um the the larger story is I have some sort of karmic debt to pay off.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Um that's like a life in a nutshell. Like why long story short, I fucked up somewhere and now I'm here taking this curriculum for God knows why.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Exactly. No, I I had been in LA for seven years and I loved LA. Um it is a difficult place, but it's not difficult, I think. For me, while I was in it, it was not difficult because I didn't notice how difficult it was. I was having a great time. Why is it difficult? What's that? Oh, I think I think people struggle to find good community, and because I have been a yoga instructor wherever I am, it's always been easy for me to find a community. So I've never struggled to find good people or find good friends and grow a community that is just lovely. Um again, my vetting process is pretty good. Um, because the yoga community can be pretty culty, but I have that radar just locked in. Yeah, it's actually, but again, then it's also really fun to be in the yoga community and just to immediately recognize. Oh my god, it's so fun.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

You're in the you're in the class, like, books it.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

This one instructor, it was amazing because I talked to her before I got into the class, and I was like, hi, I'm Angel, nice to meet you. She was like, Okay, great, grab two blocks, nice to meet you, welcome to class. I was like, Great. I go in, I'm waiting, and she walks in and she just does this like hi. And I was like, Oh, I was like, oh no. And then she just switched and she was like, Welcome everyone. And I was like, That's not how you that's not how you sounded. And she taught the whole class in that yoga teacher persona, and then after class, she switched back, and she was like, Thanks for coming.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

I was like, um, but very entertaining again, so which is such a great way to take uh situations that are not like uh as um spiritually uh offering as you hoped for, just to take it as a comedy.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

This is funny of watching it as a movie, so I'm like, this is a scene in the movie, yeah, and this is the scene where the yoga teachers project, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

I love that I heard someone say one time that politics doesn't make any sense until you realize it's supposed to be watched as a comedy, and then I'm like, oh, this is great.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

And then it's entertainment, you know, and then it's not entertainment because you know people are dying. But if you cannot remove yourself, yeah, if you cannot remove yourself though from the like flare-up that happens when you're attached to it, it just harms you. So it's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

And then you can see it as then you see it as a gift, uh because it is a gift. You know, the like the the teaching, I think Alan Watts does the teaching where he says that stress and laughter are the same energy, just expressed differently. So your friend hid your keys, and you're like, fuck, fuck, fuck, I'm angry. Where is it at? Where is it at? And then you hear them jangling it, and immediately it transforms to like ah, you know, like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

That's wild. Um, but anyways, I had never struggled to create community in LA. Um, and I had um an identity of like I'm angel, I'm a yoga teacher, I make friends very easy, um, I'm attractive, I move through the world very well, very easy. I really I have no troubles. And then um there was a client that I had in LA that I had known for about three years. And yoga? And with like it's like body work because I also train. Um we had been like I also do personal training. So we had been doing a combination of like yoga, breath work, and then some cardio, some weightlifting, some like postural. Um, so known him for about three years, he made um a joke, which I thought it was a joke, where he said, Um, Angel, you should you should come on the boat. And I was like, obviously, I'll come on the boat.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

And we were in LA, so I thought the boat was just like on the boat one day, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Well, I had seen a picture of his dad with a fish, and I said, Well, that's a great fish. And he said, Yeah, it is nice. Yeah, you should come on the boat, and I said, Yeah, of course. Yeah, and then I went in the next day, and he was like, So we should really talk about the details then. And I was like, What? Okay, and he was like, Well, the boats, the boat's in Indonesia, and I was like, Right, yeah, and like 100%, right? And I have done enough yes and in my life to know not to be like, no, no, no, no, that's not what I meant. I was like, Well, like in comedy, you you don't

Control Triggers On Early Dates

SPEAKER_00 10:20

you don't say no, like if you do say no.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

Yeah, like the first rule of improv, you can't say no, right, and I'm gonna have to do that later.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

I was like, well, how are we gonna do that? And then so we started talking, and then go to improv. Yeah. So then I ended up coming over. I was supposed to be here for a month, and they were like, push, push your visa, push your visa. So I pushed it out for six weeks, and then they were like, Can you come back? So then I started going back and forth between LA and Jakarta, which is uh uh quite the trek.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

And you came here for work unrelated to the boat situation.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

No, I came I so I I have never made it to the boat. I came here for work, and then they were like, Yeah. So then I started working with them and what was the what you get what kind of work are you doing over in like health and wellness? Um I teach it's so difficult sometimes for me to articulate this, so let me try to articulate what it is that I actually do. So I teach people how to be the thing that you are in between your internal and external worlds. So you are like a multidimensional being, you have a physical body, you have an external life and an internal life, and a spiritual life, and an emotional life, and all of that matters and impacts who you are. A lot of us only look at the physical life, like our work and our body. And then we wonder why we have the wife, we have the car, we have you know a billion dollars, but we're unhappy and we're posting about how unhappy we are on Twitter. So it's like, yes, because you've ignored your internal life. So let me sort of introduce you to this concept that your body is the vehicle that experiences and traverses both worlds. And if you can get in touch with your body and you can understand how to communicate with it and how it communicates with you, and understand the difference between your thoughts and your feelings and uh mind knowledge versus sacred knowledge, you will be very easily able to traverse your life with very little suffering. So that's what I okay, and then the tools that are the body and breath work and yoga and training and whatever it is, but the body is like the vessel that traverses everything.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

I want to get back to the body in a second. Um, finish the story on the boat.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

I started coming over and going back and forth, and it was so interesting for me to arrive here in Asia, and I grew up in Japan, so I had already known that when I'm in Asia, I am viewed very differently than when I am in America. And so I would land here. This is really fun. I would land here and immediately lose all the value that I had. So I no longer had an identity as a yoga teacher because I don't um I don't teach any public classes here. So that my identity is I think that I'm beautiful, which yes, in that world, in this one, I you know, they were like, Do you want to go to Korea to like fix? And I was like, And they were like, Listen, we can at least get you some Ozempic. And I was like, Thank you so much. No, thank you. Thank you, but it's all very well intentioned. And they were like, Are you gonna do anything about your freckles though?

SPEAKER_03 14:12

And I'm like, Really?

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just a totally different beauty standard, and then different beauty standard all together.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Okay, makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah, and so then I don't have the identity of being like a beautiful woman in it. Does that hit you?

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Does that hit you for real for real? Or are you like, nah, I'm still good looking though? Are you like tripping for real about it?

SPEAKER_00 14:31

I am not tripping.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Initially, though, were you like, God damn, like facecard doesn't sniper on here, damn it.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Initially, it was funny for me because I was like, this is hilarious. Like, this is crazy, you don't even know. But after a while, I was like, shut the fuck up. Like, that's mean. Yeah, um, and then now it's back to being funny because I'm like, listen, it is what it is. Um, it was it was really funny for like eight months, and then after a while, I was like, You guys, like this is just me.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

You shouldn't tell people this shit, like comments to yourself, bro.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Totally, but then it it was a very brief jaunt into that, and then it's back to being like it is what it is, yeah. Um and then so that part of my identity goes, and then I also think of myself as like a friendly person able to make friends, yeah. But here people were not interested in being friends with me because here people are still like they're climbing the ladder, they live in a caste system here, and so you don't really make friends and in the in the caste above or below you, you stay in your cast. I don't really have a caste because I'm not slotted anywhere, and then every single woman my age is married with children, and so they are friends with their mom groups, and I am not there's nothing appealing about me when you are trying to fit into a caste system and trying to climb a ladder. I cannot offer you like um, I can't offer you social status, I can't offer you a job because none of the the women in in um the cast, I guess, that I'm in, none of them work. So I can't I'm in probably an upper. I think most foreigners usually will slot in in an in an upper level.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Um upper level socioeconomic status you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yes, yeah, upper level socioeconomic. Um, but everyone in that level does not work, and then the people who do work, I also have nothing to offer because they're at work, and so in their time off, they're trying to make connections or they're trying to work out or whatever. And then so it was also realizing that, like, oh my god, no one wants to be friends with me. Um my identity has to go as well, and so it's like, okay, who am I without all the things that I thought that I was? Like, who am I if I'm actually not easy to talk to, and I'm actually not a yoga teacher, and I'm actually not desirable, and like all the things that I identify with were just as a byproduct of an environment I was in previously.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Now I'm in a different environment.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

And none of those things are true, and so what's true?

SPEAKER_03 17:24

The previous ones are not true, right? Like, those are just contextual. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

The super interesting thing is that I would land in LA and my identity would pick right back up, and I knew how to do that part, and then I would fly back here and I would have like a I don't understand what's happening, I don't know how to do this world, you know. So seeing the contrast for me was useful,

LA Dating As Comedy Material

SPEAKER_00 17:50

and then now I'm like, why am I holding on to this identity, anyways? It's literally just well, that's the thing. It's like, why am I holding on to these stories? Why do I need to be this person or that person? Or like, why do I care? Why do I need people? Why do I need to think of myself this way? And why do I need other people? Like, do I need other people to think of me this way?

SPEAKER_03 18:13

What do you say when you ask yourself those questions?

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Well, I don't need people to think of me a certain way because one of my biggest things after leaving a cult is that no matter how much effort you put into trying to control someone else's thoughts, it never works. Everyone has their own internal life, everyone has their own thoughts. So it's never that one. So it's always it's always a me problem. So then it's like if I don't, if I let go of these things, can I then revert to a blank slate and start there and just be in the blank slate rather than writing new things on it?

SPEAKER_03 18:50

What does the identity become at that point?

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Um, where I am right now is I'm just trying to stay in the blankness of it and just follow the opportunities that come. So instead of, you know, I have an opportunity that showed up, and I wouldn't usually take it because I don't identify as that.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

But because I'm real big on like it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what I've identified as as in the past. Does it excite me? And do I want to investigate it? And I like that too. So now I'm starting to head down corridors that I have never headed down before. And the only reason I'm able to do that is because the previous identity has been dissolved. So I'm like, oh.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

Um, is it something that you see like it's important that your identity is like you learn a lot about things through identifying with them? So like you identifying with something is the way that you like lean into it, but you need to refresh it, it needs to be something that's not not clinging.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Well, I think of it as it's telling you a story about yourself and it's telling you a story about what's important to you. And so it's like yeah, and so even when I meet people, you know, if the first thing they tell me is like, well, I'm actually a really rich guy, it's like, okay, immediately I know that has nothing to do with anything. Yeah, well, here you go.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

Here's the um this is my dating pro bobby.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Um but I know immediately that the first few things that you tell me are things that it's very important that I view you as that. Yeah, so whether you're true or not is almost irrelevant, but it you are telling me your desire, like I would like for you to view me this way, yeah. Um so then the world becomes very interesting because and then reality TV becomes very interesting. Um and the interesting thing, if you watch Love is Blind, there was this I don't watch it. Okay, you know the concept though, totally yeah. So the concept is that like you date behind a wall, and there was this one couple that I thought was perfect because she was sort of the archetype of the gold digger, and he had come on saying, I only like I always end up dating a gold digger, and I don't want that. I want a girl who like loves me for me.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Was he an art dealer?

SPEAKER_00 21:25

What's that?

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Was he an art dealer?

SPEAKER_00 21:27

He was something, and the first thing that he says is that, like, well, I come from really a lot of privilege, and like I don't struggle, and like I can provide for you, and I was like, bro, you're literally leading into this, yeah. And I'm like, you literally want the thing that you say that you don't want because you're leading with money, and then you're surprised when people want you for money. And he, of course, ended up with the girl who was looking for a rich guy because he came in and immediately was like, Hey, I'm a rich guy. Guy, and I'm looking for like a stay-at-home person that'll just make me happy about myself. And she was like, agreed. And I was like, that's so funny. But you always will give yourself away, even if you don't mean to. So that's another thing that I just really enjoy watching. Just like yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

And at this point, um, what are you starting to identify with?

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Um, at this point, I am learning about power and how power comes through when you don't need it to filter through an identity. Like power can be very pure when it's not coming through an identity filter. Like, if I need you to view me as a powerful woman, yeah, then I need you to respect my power as a woman. I need you to meet me as a woman, and that'll be the main like I'm not like, don't tell me I'm powerful, tell me I'm a powerful woman. And then I'll get stuck in that. And then that is gonna be my way into the world, and that's going to be just my presentation, but that'll also be all the problems that I run up against because of the identifier.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

It's like a fragile, fragile thing because you're putting a transfer on it.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Yeah, because if you if you make the jar this big, you're immediately like that's your limit, you can't get past that.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Um, so learning to take the I I guess the broadness of your identity, and if you can just dissolve the walls, then you get a bigger experience. So I'm trying to just let everything go and have the experience. Like, what does power actually feel like in the body? Like, how does that come out? And then also, where does it get stuck with it?

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Where do I run out of without being generated and maintained through uh like a psychological identity that you receive power from?

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Well, and also if it's pure power, it's endless. So I f if I find myself tired, like let's say with this podcast, if I leave this this podcast and I'm like that took a lot of energy out of me, then it's likely that I was performing and it took tons of effort, and so it wasn't true power, it was like I was trying to generate a force to be like, this is how I present, and you know, perhaps and I hope good enough, and like how was I? And was the performance good for that?

SPEAKER_03 24:37

Yeah, do you think it will sell tickets

Moving To Jakarta And Losing Identity

SPEAKER_03 24:40

again?

SPEAKER_00 24:42

And if I can just like no, then I just I have endless resource because like this is one of the things that I realized about worry is worry is exclusively an ego problem. The soul is never worried, the soul is just like this little journey.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Before we go to the worried soul uh tangent, just want to add one more thing about the power because something when you are able to notice that you're getting ready to perform, right? Getting ready to perform, yeah, and you release yourself of the responsibility of making sure this person perceives you a certain way, and you feel that like for me, it's it's like a nice resettling in the body. And I I feel this energy that instead of being borrowed from the successful performance I'm making, like you know, borrowing energy from applause, right? I mean, I just have the energy that would have been spent on the performance back with it. Yeah, and that feels like fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

All that we are are is an energetic system. So that's why it's important to like learn how to harness your energy. Like, what actually belongs to you? What is your endless source that you can tap into and how does it feel? And then notice the difference. Like, when I go into work, I don't turn into a different person, I am still this person. So, work for me is very easy, it's not taxing. I can work all day and be like, okay, I'll see you guys tomorrow. And one of the things that I do is I work with these two twin boys who are hilarious, they're children. And for other people, they're very, very difficult. They're just so energetic and they they play off of each other. You know, one of them throws something and laughs, and the other one thinks it's the funniest thing they've ever seen, and then they add on, you know. And so it could be very chaotic, but I'm not here to dominate and to make them respect me, you know. I'm here to teach them. So if I'm a good teacher, I will facilitate their learning somehow, but I don't also have a specific way through which they must learn.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

So if we want to learn this skill through balancing, great, we'll balance. If we want to learn this skill through, like, can we do a plank challenge? Great, then that's what we'll do. But I'm not locked into something that I need them to agree to. So for me, being with them is very pleasant.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

And I'm like, because I'm not fighting them for dominance of the moment, we're just all in the same thing together.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Yeah. The idea of like containing those kids and forcing the energy to move in a certain direction or yeah, relaxing into the flow of saying, like, what direction is this going, and how can I just like uh gently steer it in a way that can be useful for them instead of being just completely chaos, but not becoming rigid and becoming stressed. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

And I do it in a way that makes sense to me. So I am not taxed when I leave the situation with them. The same thing. I don't like I'm like, that was fun.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

How do you do that? Like, how do you how do you switch it in your brain to go like these kids are being fucking wild, and I gotta kind of route corral them into something useful with our time. How do you move into that play role?

SPEAKER_00 28:30

It's curiosity because again, I don't I'm not the main character. You know, so if I'm not the main character, there's space for a lot of different things to happen. And if I would like if I desire an outcome and the desired outcome is for them to learn more about themselves, there's a million ways I can do that. If I am the main character and I want them to learn something that I want to teach them, there immediately comes much fewer outcomes. Much fewer. And there's much different, I have much fewer options for my behavior, I have much fewer options for their behavior. If I'm not the main character and the desired outcome is the most important thing, then everything is available. Maybe I use different words, maybe I use different stuff, maybe we change our location, like everything is on the table. If I'm like, you need to stay on your yoga mat, and we're not gonna leave until you do like three push-ups or until you do this shape right, then the only thing I can do is dominance to get them to create the physical thing that I want, and then I quote win, but nothing, nothing useful has been accomplished. Like what has been accomplished in there?

SPEAKER_03 29:47

It's really interesting. It's really interesting when you start to look at the um desire to control other people's thoughts and desire to control other people's behaviors as a job that's not yours, and being able to feel yourself be relieved of that. I think that seems like that for me has been the thing that's allowed me to really actually want to do that because initially it was like if I if I actually try to make sure people think that I'm X, Y, and Z as a person, then they'll I'll feel good around their presence because the whole idea of you know, like, I'm not who I think I am, I'm not who you think I am, I am who I think you think I am, that whole thing, like then I'll feel like energized by the persona that I'm forecasting or projecting. But but like, man, when you really don't when you when you tell yourself it's I I don't, it's not my job to change people's behavior at all. That it can be like the greatest promotion of your entire life if you let it.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Well, I think my life is so much fun for me to live. Like, I'll work with people, I'll deal with people, and people be like, How can you stand that person? And I'm like, Because it's fun, because I don't need anything from them. I can just watch and be like, wow, this is a very chaotic scene, lol.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

I I have this uh practice at work where like I just practice practice at work where like uh because I a lot of my job is just like one-to-one sales, selling them a training program, like a six-month fitness weight loss program. I'll get some people that are just like not buyers, you know, like tire kickers from the jump. And I've right I've done probably 2,000 or more sit-down in-person one-hour consults in my career. So I have a pattern recognition that I'm like, and so it's like so. I'll get an I'll get an absurd, absurd customer, and I'll just I will just think in my head, because like I can either do one or two things, I'm gonna spend this next 45 minutes with them, one way or the other, and I can either be irritated, yeah, they're not gonna buy, and this isn't it's gonna be waste of my fucking time, and I hate this person, and I hope they die. Yeah, which that's sometimes on bad days. That's my thought process. The other thought process is like, this is like it's kind of hard to articulate, but like this is um my opponent of sorts. Like, this is my uh this is the resistance of my yeah, this is my teacher here, manifested in the the most ludicrous form to try to knock me off, to try to make me decide to suffer. And this is their this is their best form yet. And it makes me like the way I feel now, it makes me I start to really crack up during my meeting with the person because I'm like, this is crazy. Yeah, this is so fucking funny, bro. Like, I have no idea how we got here. I don't yeah, and you're like the thing that helps me so much is I go, like, I see them as an actor, you know, and I go, You are you are nailing this role.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Well, that's the thing, is like we are all playing a character, you know, like we all have our like beingness that we try to get to, some of us, but most of us are playing the character, and we really, really want you to play along, you know. So it's interesting what you aren't playing along to see them try and reinforce their character, or yeah, maybe like get louder, you know. They do, it's amazing, and then for me, I'm I'm entertained. Like I had this one person at a party come in, no one was paying attention to them, so they out of nowhere was like, anyway, the earth is flat. You're incredible, you are absolutely remarkable. They needed attention so bad, and they were trying little things, they were trying little gets, and the little gets weren't working because people in the room were like not attention seekers, so everyone was sort of like not paying attention to them. It was it was like a dinner party, so it's very low-key. It wasn't a like big attention getting moment, they just got sick and tired of no one paying attention to them, so they were just like, anyway, the earth is flat. I was like, that's incredible, and somebody bit, somebody was like, Oh my god, I can't believe and then they got engaged in their battle in the corner, and I was like, more power to you, but I was like, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

One little thing that I think can be useful to practice this too is like talking about energy conservation. Like, that seems to be kind of a thread we've talked about a bit today. Um, when you do like when someone comes at when you interact with someone that has this persona that you can tell is they're they're trying to generate a certain response out of you. So, like you can either like um I guess you can either not be aware of it and that have that response generated. You leave and you're like, wow, that person's rich and crazy and cool and the most important person, whatever, or you can be aware of them trying to generate the response from you, and then you can either spend a bunch of energy resisting it, like you're not gonna get this out of me, or you can or you can just humor it by leaning into it and be like, wow, you have so much going on. Like, and watch them lean into their character, you help them establish their character they're playing. Play with them.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

I think that people have this idea that, like, you know, if if somebody comes in and they're like, Oh, I'm I'm a pretty girl, or like I'm a handsome guy, if you don't agree that somehow it is now your job to disagree with them and to make them see your point of view, which like why yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, why don't why don't you just leave it? You know, too. And then who no, oh I mean, yes, because I recognize the name, but no, because I don't know what to type.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Oh, okay. He's a famous comedian. Uh one of he says his he says his his argument strategy since he turned like 40 is just like uh he just swaps positions. Like if someone disagrees, he now agrees with them. Like he's like, I agree with you, no. Yeah, I agree. I'm I'm right there with you. And he said it ends every argument.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

That's amazing. But I think also a big thing that the reason for that is also religion teaches you this is the structure, and anyone who is not in the structure is incorrect. And as a good Christian or as a good pastor, as a good friend, or whatever, you need to corral your friend who is misguided. Yeah, and then being that that mindset, right? Being that that mindset has gotten us the world we live in, I'm like, yeah, I'm not gonna do that. I'm just gonna let people run their own lives. Like, why would I be like, Braxton, you're doing it again?

SPEAKER_01 36:48

You need to not like you know, but that's that's what you do.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Your energetic system just goes, shh. Why do you what like uh so how is that helpful for anybody?

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Do you think it's just like a programming that we just that we do, like uh whenever we just learned it as like you're supposed to do this for other people, so now we do it?

SPEAKER_00 37:10

I think there are truths that are true, and we intrinsically know that, like, but we don't let people learn it in their own way. Like, I I think it's true that like um obviously when you are healthy, that's best, right? Like, not being overweight, not being underweight, being healthy for you is best. Yeah, that's what I think, and that is just true. What I'm

Power Without Performance

SPEAKER_00 37:40

not gonna do is be like, Braxton, you're unhealthy. Like you're unhealthy, you gotta do better, you gotta do like because why? If I truly care about you, wouldn't I want to learn your story, understand why, and then just engage with you? Like, do you want to come for a walk with me? Should we like talk about whatever it is that you like? If you like Lord of the Rings, great, let's talk on Lord of the Rings, but I want to go for a walk. Like, why would why would I why wouldn't I do that as opposed to being like you have to do better, you have you gotta eat less, you gotta, you know, or whatever it is. We just default to like what a disappointing human being this person is. And I'm like, well, why? Like, even if there are like universal truths, like you know, also being really promiscuous for me, I think that live your life. I'm so happy that you get to live your life as you should. I think not being super promiscuous feels better, and I think energetically it feels better, mindfully it feels better, it just is better. Yeah, but what I'm not gonna do again is be like how disappointing you are. What a failure, you know. But that is the default that we live in for some reason.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

I think it's too like uh when we when we lean into it from just like an intellectual standpoint, like I'd want to convince you that you should be one way, it just is like a way that I can like stress test my belief that I'm right.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Yeah, yeah, right, exactly. So it has very much to do with your identity and not the other person, you know, even if the thing is true, and that's like I see this with addicts, you know, when people are trying to help an addict, they usually instead of sitting with them and learning their story, it's just like stop it, just stop it. Like I want to help you, stop it, and it's like okay, if you've done any work with addicts or or psychological in the psychological realm, like that obviously that doesn't work. If it worked, it would have worked, yeah. So something else will work, but are you willing to let go of your identity and go into the trenches with them? And it's okay if not, but this isn't working.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

So I like I I feel like um one transition in my life over the last I don't know, five years, four years or so. Like, I don't really feel like I ever try to help anyone ever anymore, yeah. Specific intentionally. Uh, and it's been one of the greatest things I've ever done for myself.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

But isn't that true? Like, I think the best thing that you can do for anybody ever is just be fully alive as yourself.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

That's what I'm saying, fam. Like, the best gift you ever give somebody is the quality of your energy. And if that means I gotta just be in myself for myself, that's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

I think we think, I mean, and yes, it's true, everything is true in a certain context. It is wonderful to help people, but it is not wonderful to try and go to hell and drag them out of hell. They can they can make their own way out. People are strong enough to face whatever battle they're facing, yeah, and face your own battles. And usually the people who are really trying very, very hard to help, that's literally they're in the middle of a battle as the helper.

SPEAKER_03 41:13

Yeah, yeah. And it's so exhausting. Like uh two uh two, like one really good tool I've used is um only answer questions. Only is wait until they wait until someone fucking asks you a question and says, What do you think about this? Or how do you think you ought to do that? That's when you're that's when it makes sense to to give your two cents.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

That's my thing, is if I am asked, or sometimes people will be like, What do you think? And I'll be like, Okay, what are you open to?

SPEAKER_03 41:43

Well, I'm telling you what I think. So last week, whenever you said that shit, I thought that was stupid.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Because I, you know, I I view the world in a certain way, and I can tell you what I see. A lot of people, most people are just not interested in what I see. Like the way they don't give a shit. And also, this world, the way that I see it, is is for me. And I love and I love what I see, and I'm enjoying my experience. That's what it's for. But if if I'm just telling you, like, this is my experience, and this is what you need to do in order to have my experience, it's like, well, that doesn't translate anyway. You are never gonna have my experience. Why am I trying to find you?

SPEAKER_03 42:24

Yeah, like this is something that I notice about myself sometimes whenever I'm having a good time. I'll wanna I'll sometimes I'll have the the uh proclivity to want to advertise it. Like I'll I want people to know how much I love this song at a concert.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Yeah, and sometimes I'll and that's human and that do it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

Yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm saying, like, but I also will be like, uh, this energy is for me. So this this gift of how much I love this song is for me, and I'm not gonna give it away. And so I'm gonna close my eyes and I'm gonna really feel this.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Right, you're just gonna like be in it, and it's so nice just to be in a life that you have made and that you can experience joyfully because other people they've made not every other person, but other people they make lives that look good aesthetically, and I'm like, yeah, but your experience of it is terrible, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

Yeah, yeah. I always think about like a beautiful sweater that's itchy on the inside, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Exactly that, and it's so I know this one person that, in my opinion, has a dream life. They do what they love and they go around the world doing this thing. They're very good at what they do, so they get very high end clients flying them places because what they do has to do with art, they go around the world to view art. I'm like dream, dream. They do not experience that life as such. They experience that it's a very stressful thing. Um, they do not like it, they want to get out of it. They and I'm like, wow, but I think that about my life, and I think that about most people's lives. It's like somebody dreams of your life. Somebody looks at your life and they're like, if only. So why don't you look at your life that way? So that's what I try to do with my life. If I ever find myself doing the like, oh, I'm suffering. I'm like, Angel, people dream of your life.

unknown 44:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Why don't you? And then I'm like, that's right. I used to dream of my life.

SPEAKER_03 44:46

My mind's still hung up on the energy conservation stuff because that feels like such a powerful topic. We um another thought process is like um, yeah, just have fun on your own. Like just by yourself without because there's something really really, really beautiful, at least that I've experienced with I'm naturally a very social butterfly. I'm naturally a very social person and extroverted, and I get a lot of energy from other people. And so there can be this like I'm borrowing my sense of good energy from the responses I'm getting from others. But learning to play alone is a great thing from an energetic perspective that I'm gonna have fun in my heart, in my qual my quiet life experience. And if you want to peer into it, you'll see something beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

So mine is the opposite, or I I love time by myself, and I love keeping my little secrets and keeping my little so for me, it's the opposite. It's like, how can I learn to share it with somebody? Let someone view like just peek into my world, or can I share this with someone without it being like, no, it's mine.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

So I'm how how's that been? How has that helped you like learning to share?

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Um I think the the pendulum swing, right? Is that I grew up in communes with a million people and nothing was sacred. Um makes sense. I forgot about the goal. But this is like the coding stuff, right? This is like how the structure was built. Um, and whenever you leave something extreme, you will swing to the other end. So my swing to the other end was like, oh my god, the first time I started living by myself, I thought I would have a difficult time because I had only ever lived with you know hundreds and then dozens and then and then people and then my husband. Um, and so going from that to living just by myself, I thought I was gonna have a hard time, and everyone warned me about like you're gonna be so lonely and at least get a pet. And I started living by myself, and I was everyone lied to me. Like, this is the most peace I have ever felt in my life. Yes, and it just felt so and you know, going out and teaching yoga and seeing hundreds of people throughout the week, but I had a place to come home to that was mine, and like nobody knew that I was there, and all my stuff was in a certain place, and I just I loved it, it was so cozy. So then now I'm gonna do that with the whole world. Now I'm gonna have like my little restaurants, I'm gonna have my little alleyways, I'm gonna have my so I create myself this world to live in, yeah, that I so enjoy. My little my tunnels um and just things that I love and cherish. And if you are special enough, then I will show you what I have discovered, yeah, and then realizing like, yeah, that's nice that I've built this for myself, but it is also very selfish. Um, not in a way that, like, what a bummer, I shouldn't have done it, but in the way that wouldn't it be nice now to share it with people? Like, could you share it with people? And can it still be a good experience when it's not just you? Yeah, and so then I start sharing my like my favorite restaurants, or I'll bring someone to my favorite place, or I'll bring them along. Okay, this is the combination that I do. I start here, I stop here on the way, and then this is the full loop, and then after that, this is my ritual. So, can I start sharing? It feels really good, but because I share it with people that I know will enjoy it, like other people who are on that same vibe. Like, I don't so an analogy that I like to use is uh I have I have two friends, one of them very introverted, doesn't get out much. Little things are very meaningful to her. The other person, incredibly extroverted, out all the time, has tons of stuff. And one day there was like a flower shop. This is like sounds like one of those radio things, but there was a flower shop opening, and so they had like a 30% off or something like that. So I was like, okay, let me send somebody flowers, like whoever it is, whatever it's 30% off, I'm gonna get somebody flowers. So I walked in and I had checked my phone, and both of them had texted me. And I was like, oh, I could send it to either of them because I love them both, but the person who is extroverted and is outside all the time, it wouldn't really mean that much to her. Because she gets flowers all the time. Like she would she would be happy, she would

Stop Trying To Fix People

SPEAKER_00 49:50

be thankful, it would be amazing, we'd be like, let's go get dinner, it would be cute. And then the other person, it would be like deeply meaningful, and she would she would notice that I thought of her, and it would be meaningful that I thought of her. So immediately it was like obviously it's going to them. Because I know that like it would brighten, it would brighten both people's days, but it would hit someone in the heart if I picked that person, yeah, and the other person would post it on Instagram.

unknown 50:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

But not, but the the meaning of it, it would mean something different. So when I show people and bring people, if they're people that have like a deep uh the capability to depending on your capability of feeling or your capability of appreciation, I'll show you the little things that I appreciate. And then that is really fun because again, I'll I'll calibrate. So then when I draw you in, then it is really exciting because we we can appreciate it on the same level.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

It's really cool though, like the full circle moment of like uh starting off in an environment that nothing is secret, nothing is private, and then feeding into your own sense of privacy and loving that and establishing that, and then like the Buddhist phrase, the healing is in the return, like back to sharing, but now it's intentional, it's uh consensual too.

SPEAKER_00 51:16

Right now there's a choice, somehow helps a lot.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

Yeah. Uh so how are things going in Indonesia?

SPEAKER_00 51:25

Great. Um, I am learning a lot. It is a very good school. I am confronted with a lot of things that I never would be confronted with.

SPEAKER_03 51:35

What are you in school for?

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Life school. Ah school of hard knocks.

SPEAKER_03 51:45

Gotta see my report card. I want to see my teacher's notes. Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

Um, my life's work is now coming online because I've had enough time to myself to get really bored of myself where I'm like, ugh, not you again. And then it becomes like I read this book. It's called Leading the Dreaming, and it was a really lovely book. Totally. Leading from the Dreaming. And it's this person in Australia who was in like a corporate job, and for some reason that wasn't satisfying. I've never heard that before. For some reason, what I know, weird. What the corporate ladder? Come on, man. Yeah, anyways, he goes and he studies with indigenous people with the aboriginals, and they talk about being beneficial to your children's children's children's children. So it's like four generations out. Are you doing anything that will benefit four generations out? And of course, when I think about that, I'm like, I'm not even doing anything. Like, I don't even have children, like nothing is benefiting anybody. I'm just having a fun time in my life, which is great. I enjoy it. Um, but I have been given so much in my life. I have been given so much, and I've traversed such a vast landscape of human experience. And if there is anything that I can leave behind, if I can leave behind a goalpost or a marker or a trail, then wouldn't that be worth it? Wouldn't that be a worthy thing to do? So, how can I now traverse my way back into the dark night of the soul and leave a trail? So that's kind of where I'm at now.

SPEAKER_03 53:40

Um, just to like draw a distinction on what we're talking about now, the because there is a bit of an irony on like the you know, don't help anybody, and then it's like, no, I help four generations away.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

But if like the difference, but the thing is, is I won't be here for it, right? How can I possibly help four generations out?

SPEAKER_03 54:01

Yeah, it definitely definitely shifts you out of the interpersonal drama of like I need to change you and make me feel like I mean I get I get no credit for it because by the time four generations out, they don't even know who wrote the book.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

Or if they do, it's just it's just my name, but like who cares? By the time it hits them, it will have been gone through many iterations. Okay, so um, but but is the teaching solid?

SPEAKER_03 54:24

You know, yeah, so um if I'm if I'm tracking with you on this, so like the idea here is to help, but it's a different version of helping, and specifically, it's not about like helping someone else with their problem that they're dealing with, it's more so taking what you've learned in your life and expressing it fully as a gift back to reality and then leaving it without an aim on it. Well, I have been helped by I don't know if you can hear me, but we're frozen.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

Are we back?

SPEAKER_03 55:17

We're back.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

Okay, great. Is what your first one is I've been helped by Maya Angelo, I've been helped by Epictetus, I've been helped by Victor Frankl. Um, I've been helped by ayahuasca. None of these, like, they're not alive, ayahuasca is, but like, you know, Epictetus is dead, Maya Angelo's gone, Victor Frankel is gone, these people are gone, but they left something behind that is healing on a soul level for me. Yeah, and it has they they they don't know me, they never will, they will in the ayahuasca realm, but they don't know nor nor do they care. They were doing something that they couldn't not do, like in in simply being themselves, this just ripples through. So, in simply being myself, what can ripple through? And god, I would hope it can help somebody, but it would help them help themselves, it wouldn't be a reliance, you know, it would be an under it would help them to unlock an understanding of themselves, and that's really the only way that we help anybody.

SPEAKER_03 56:30

What is it? What is it feeling that's coming through you? Like, what's the teachings?

SPEAKER_00 56:37

Uh again, how to traverse the internal and external worlds and not pretending like one or the other doesn't exist because you have people who are in the physical realm, right? Like you have uh, we'll just do an archetypal, you have somebody who's like in in tech. The only thing they care about is scientific data and is the bottom line going up. And then they wonder why is why is the midlife crisis here? Why do I want to kill myself? It's like because you have completely ignored your internal world, you only accept like physical, material things as actual real things, and there's a whole world that you're neglecting and it's killing you. And then on the other end of the spectrum, it's like somebody who's so quote empathetic and so deep in their feelings that they can't leave the house because they're gonna somebody's gonna look at them weird and they're gonna feel like this person's looking at me, and that makes me sad, or there's a homeless person, and then they'll just crumble. And it's like, okay, you're paying too much attention now to the internal world. Like the you gotta learn how to traverse, you have to learn how to hold both. Um, and the deeper you can go into the internal worlds, the more your external work sort of your external world will sort itself out, but it's not true the other way.

SPEAKER_03 57:53

How has um how is your ex how has your experience in life impacted this message you're sharing? Like, how has it helped craft what your gift is to others?

SPEAKER_00 58:06

I think that I've walked very aggressively into both worlds. I think that coming out of the cults and they relied so heavily on feelings and making you feel bad and using shame or making you feel joy, and the reason you know, they would get you it free for feelings, and feelings was the base of everything. And Jesus said you should feel better. Um, and then going full stop. Jesus said everything.

SPEAKER_03 58:36

Um said a lot of shit, man. What was yapping?

SPEAKER_00 58:40

I know. Um, of course. I saw him in ayahuasca.

SPEAKER_03 58:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, and a physical form.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

Yeah, he had no head, but yeah. So I think that Jesus existed like drug Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 59:00

I met I met black gay Jesus on a ketamine trip one time.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

It was fantastic, but that's the thing, is I think that people get locked into like this is Jesus is this one white white Jesus is this one thing, and I refuse any other experience. It's like you're missing out on all the other Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 59:19

Yeah, I it was uh it was some uh marijuana academy, and at one point I was walking up these golden gates and I saw heaven and the doors open, and Jesus popped out and he was black and he was gay, and he goes, Hey, like that. And I said, You're gay, and he says, Of course, and then everything exploded. Yeah, so anyways, but so you met Jesus, Jesus exists, uh, and the cult says Jesus said we can feel better. We'll bring it back. Yes, okay, so yeah, black and Jesus, sorry, my buddy.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

Going the other direction to be like, there's no God, the only thing that I am going to look at is scientific data, and I'm gonna look at logic. And if you cannot explain those things to me, I do not care and I will not engage. Yeah, and then going to into that realm and then being like, why am I so unhappy? Like, yeah, I thought it would be better by now. Because like I only believe that's where I went. Yeah, because that's the pen, right? It has to swing. So then only having very rigid friends and very rigid beliefs, and everything is so rigid, and I refuse anything, and then being like, but then why you know, why do I have these physical problems, or why do I still have these emotional problems, or why are my relationships this way? And it's like, okay, go back. I'm like, I don't want to go back into that world unless I have a navigational system. So then it's like, all right, well, let's let's anchor, right? Let's use an anchor out here and then go in. And if it works, then great, then go a little deeper. And then once I'm over here, I can anchor on the other side and then pull away from the external world or like the physical part, and then recreate like a new thing, like discover it for the first time again. So it's great. Um, and for me now, it's because I've done it a lot, it's very simple for me to explain. And I have like a little infinity symbol that I use, and you know, the body is the only one. Like, you know, the infinity symbol, it's like one side is when you're teaching is internal, and then at the middle point is the body, and the body is the only thing that can do both. Like you have your internal experience impacts your body. Like if I yell at you and call you names, you'll feel that in the body, you know, and so even though it's invisible, it's still the body takes impact, and then anything physical that happens, of course, the body takes impact. So your body is the thing that is the multidimensional being, and we don't know how to understand or use the body. So I'm like, okay, let's learn it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:55

Um, I'm really interested in talking more about that the body specifically being the the teacher.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:02

Yes, I mean it's the best teacher, and it's so obvious too. We just we're just so used to ignoring it. You feel truth in your body. You do, yeah, and it impacts you differently. You can sense truth, and that's why, like, you know, we have intuition or whatever, and it's like, no, it's just that your body has a system, it has a mechanism. When someone is lying to you, you know it. And if you don't know it, it's because you've covered, you've put stuff on top of it, you've made you we've practiced not listening to ourselves, we practice ignoring and got really good at it too. That's so good.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:42

Because the pain of the knowledge is like often it disrupts your life, especially if it's somebody close to you, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

There's all you know, if your if your partner is cheating, you don't want to believe it. That's terrible. So I'm just gonna not investigate, and I'm just gonna not, but then it's like it's an annoying thing. It's like you know, you know on some level, or like you're gonna be fine, you you feel the environment.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:08

Yeah and and okay, so so like too, like uh in relationships, like when things are coming to a close in a relationship, like you know, it's easy to project it onto the person, but like, why am I acting weird? Like I was uh one of my friends recently was in a relationship that ended after quite some time, and um one of the areas of contention was towards the end, like him feeling from her, you know, her being closed and her not being super juiced about this connection anymore, and uh him almost insisting that she does the talking by saying, like, uh, like, you know, what's wrong? And I was like, dog, you knew what was wrong. Why aren't you asking her to do the hard work of saying it? Like you want her to say what you know in your heart is true, and you're not gonna say it. Why do you expect them to say it?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:01

Well, the person who verbalizes it is the person that you can shift blame towards, right? Yeah, so that's another very interesting way to uh view things, you know, is the person who won't ever address the issue, but is the creator of the issue. But then when you put it into form by giving it words, now they have something against you because you were not supposed to put into words, and then it's like, oh, because you feel bad, like that. I'm supposed to oh, you know, sorry about it, but like, and you're like, okay. But my whole thing now is if if somebody doesn't understand feelings, whether it's a client or a boss or a friend or whatever, if you don't understand something as simple as feelings, which is what children understand, then there's just no, there's no connection possible at all. Because I take feelings into consideration, right? Like if you're like, hey, Angel, I really don't like this, this is making me feel bad. I'm going to be like, I'm sorry, how can I help? And if you have this whole complicated list of like you need to blah blah blah, then I'm gonna be like, I can't help you. Yeah, but I do want you to have a good experience, and your feelings are valid. If you're like this is making me really sad, I'm gonna be like, Oh, I'm sorry, sorry, my bad. Um so it's impossible for me to engage with somebody who then is not going to take my feelings into consideration. So, you know, the invisible world is invisible, but it is felt, and if you cannot feel it, then we just cannot communicate. Yeah, because I can feel it. I'm not lying about it, or I'm not it's not lying necessarily, but I I know it exists and I know it's impactful. And if you do not see that, that's fine, but there's no movement forward possible.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:48

Do you think that this the phrase I don't know is probably one of the most like uh indicative phrases of being emotionally detached, saying, I don't know what I want, I don't know what I Feel I don't know what's true when you do, in fact, know you just don't know, you just don't get you're not connected to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:05

I think it has less to do, yeah, yes, and I think it's a courage

The Body As A Truth Meter

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:11

I don't want to know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

Well, it's not that, but like when I, you know, when I knew that I was gonna get divorced, I didn't want to. You know, I don't want to know that I have to get divorced. That's so much work. And I love the person I'm married to. So like I don't want to know that. I don't want to believe the cells in my body and my soul when it's like you have to get out or you're gonna die. I don't want to believe it. So it takes either a lot of pain to force the issue or a lot of courage. And luckily for me, I was like, I'm gonna go the courage route.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:51

Yeah, move early.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

Yeah, but it's also you do have to then bear the response the responsibility of of pain that you've caused. And for me, I don't like causing pain, but I would rather cause pain than suffering. Because those are two very different things. Like, first, something is confusing, and then it's painful, and then it's harmful. So I was in it was already confusing, and then it's in the painful stage, and I'm like, I'm not gonna go further. Because it's fine if something is painful, but if it gets harmful, that's very, very bad. So, like if we're in a relationship and one of us starts to act, quote, weird, then it's like, oh, I'm confused why you didn't just tell me that, or I confused why you didn't tell me that you were gonna be late. Or I'm like, that's weird. So that's like the first step, and then the next step is like it's painful, you're not talking to me, or I'm not talking to you, or like it's just it's now we're at the painful stage, and then after that we step into a harmful stage, or maybe I start calling you names, or you start calling me names, or like you know, never wanted to be here in the first place, and it's like that's harmful. So as long as you're in the if you're in the confused stage, articulate it. If it can't be articulated, it becomes painful, and that's a really great indicator to like all right.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:15

I like those three stages: weird, painful, harmful. Don't get to the third.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:20

Don't get to the third.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:22

Also, don't have to know why, like, you don't have to be able to articulate why it doesn't work. I think that's something that keeps people in painful situations for a while.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:29

100%. And also because I don't need you to view me a certain way, like I don't need you to think that I'm smart or I had good reasons or bad reasons. It's just I don't feel like it, and I'm really just not gonna explain it. If you don't get it, that's fine. But I'm not gonna sit here and explain and then explain again and then be like, because if you don't understand something, like that's probably one of the reasons that work that this isn't working anymore. Here's here's my thing is that like uh any anybody anywhere that knows anything about math or chemistry, it would be a waste of time to talk to me. I do not understand with math or chemistry. So you can be the best person in the world, the most intelligent at math, which is genius, and at chemistry, which again is genius, and you would waste your breath to tell me because I don't have the capacity, yeah. If you tell me it's seven times seven, I'll be like, that's cool. But if you're like anything with an X or a symbol, I don't know. And it is it would be painful for both of us to try and for you to try and communicate math to me and for me to really try to understand. It's just not a matter.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:55

That's like a it's telling me my battery will sleep, so let me get a little blood.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:12

This episode is sponsored by Sparkling Water. If you're drinking regular ass water, get a life now. This is like the greatest replacement for uh soda, and uh I haven't drink a soda in probably a year and a half because all I drink is sparkling water.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:29

I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:31

I would just fill in the dead space with a with a fake ad.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:36

You're like, it's time for us to talk about how much it's sponsored.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:42

Yeah, um that right there, too, is like um yeah, you will go crazy trying to understand why something's not working sometimes. When it's like as it's not like because you already understand it's not working. That's all you need to know. Yeah, why it's not working is a waste of your time. You have other things to do in life. So move on to those. You don't have to write a book on like why me and this uh person don't work out.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:13

I also think that why is one of the more useless questions. I used to think it was a really good question, but why is it kind of irrelevant? I think it's more useful to ask how, like, how am I gonna move forward? How am I gonna look at something else? How am I going to help myself? How, how, how, versus what?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:34

Yeah. Because, like, yeah, great grounding.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:38

Just yeah, just because it is, that's why.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:42

That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's a why can be a sense of like it's just a practice of not accepting, but why, but why, but why? I don't understand. I need to understand before I can accept it, but you don't, you can just accept it.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

Right. Like if things just if things just are, and there is no explanation for why, now you can ask a different question.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:05

Yeah. And so this whole topic is really painful. And the bright side of it though, is the energy that you have in your life from alignment is the greatest thing ever. And the cost of alignment is painful decision, literally using the word decision in the sense of cutting off from. But like the that's the point of this. So it's not like a masochistic, I think masochistic would be the self-inflicted pain is enjoyment, right? Yeah, it's like a masochistic practice of like I just like to tear myself away from things, and but like I know that when my life is aligned, there's just this flow of energy in my body, and I get the thing that I wanted to get from everything else prior as a by product of just leaning into the truth.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:59

So it's so much better to live like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:01

I agree, and much less effort.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:04

Effortless. Yeah. Uh this uh this girl that I've been talking to for a few weeks said something that we have shared with each other quite a few times and are just kind of comparing notes in our dating processes, is being that um alignment is feels effortless. Alignment should feel effortless. And yeah, that's a beautiful thought process.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:26

Yeah, I agree. And it's easy, it's so I think that we give so much. What is the word? What is the word for like weight? I guess that's that's the word. We give so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:41

Sounds like a good word to me.

unknown 1:13:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:43

To effort, and we think we need to deserve things, and in order to deserve things, we need to exert the correct amount of effort in order to deserve the thing, yeah, and that's just not true. And you could just like calm down, and the thing will show up if it's meant to show up, yeah, and then it's effortless, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:09

There are people okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:13

Well, just like people ask me how I got this job, and like, why did they pick you? How did you convince I didn't do anything? I was just existing as myself, and somehow somebody was like, This is really useful. Yeah, we'll use it, blank, blank, blank. Sure, because it just requires me being myself. I can do that very easily.

Alignment Decisions And Pain Vs Suffering

SPEAKER_03 1:14:41

Settling back into your own seat and saying that my life is on a path already, and that my job is to like allow my life to move me in the direction it's already taken me. Have you read the book The Surrender Experiment?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:56

Yes, and I will tell you, the first time I read it, I was like, this is the stupidest book I've ever read. What a useless book. And then the second time I read it, I was like, this is great. It's so sad.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:09

Yeah, such such a beautiful book.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:14

Uh last time we talked to you, I had not done LSD yet. Have you done LSD yet?

unknown 1:15:18

I had it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:20

Um, due to my current circumstances, that the penalty for anything in Indonesia is death. I'm going to say no.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:32

Okay. Understood. It sucks. Didn't you didn't you have a friend that had that had done LSD recently that uh told you about their experience that you said you were going to tell me about?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:42

Probably.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:44

Yeah? Yeah. Um, do you want to share about that person's experience now? Because you were saying when we chatted earlier, you said that she called you, she told you all about it.

unknown 1:15:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:57

Where was it?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:58

Where did she where did she do it?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:59

I don't recall.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:00

Oh, you don't recall.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:01

Um, so I talked to you last, but I had done plant medicine, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:08

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:11

Well, since moving, because when I was doing the back and forth, I would go back and I would and I would sit. And my la the last time I went back, which was like um, yeah. Um I I sat and it came through even before the ceremony, as I was like speaking to and working out the details, it came through that like this is the last one for a while. And I was like, okay. So I sat and it was my last one for a while. Um, and I haven't done it since then because you needed to, you need to integrate. And so I have had a year and a half of integration of just everything that I've ever learned, I'm now on fire, and I have to utilize what I've learned. And you know, when you're having those experiences, you experience it as truth in your body. So as I'm here having a difficult time, but I know that these other things are true. So then it's the a matter of can I let my ego go enough to pull in this thing that I know is true, even though it's very difficult for me right now to like be like, I'm wrong, this thing needs to layer in, and then I will understand it differently. And then it was just a lot of the work of doing that. Um, and that's been really incredible. Has it been pleasant? No. Has it been very useful and beneficial for the rest of my life? Yes. So I still have not sat um again, because you know, when when they want you, they'll let you know. So I'm like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:47

I haven't done ayahuasca yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:50

Okay. When it wants you, it's gonna tap you on the shoulder.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:54

I like uh I swore off psychedelics for five years, uh five years ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:02

So well well, yeah. Recently it's just been like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:10

One thing that's interesting that I will say is when I've sat before, it's been a very pleasant experience. It's been at a nice place, great facility, so comfortable. And somebody that I know and I respect, they go and they sit in in the jungle. And they're like, Yeah, it's a terrible time, you should come. And I was like, No, perfect. Absolutely not. And they were like, No, part of the experience is allowing yourself to have a difficult experience. That's the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:42

And life in a nutshell, human life.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:49

Yes, being that now I understand that like pain is such a valuable part of the experience. And if you don't fight pain, if you feel pain and you don't fight it, but you try to understand it and you work with it, and it it will teach you, it becomes such a valuable thing to be able to be in the pain without resisting it. So I'm like, okay, I get it, I get it now. Why allowing yourself to have a terrible time is a great thing. Yeah, and pain is not optional, but suffering is. So it's like take the good, experience the pain. You do not need to suffer over it. Because there's lessons in pain, there is there are no lessons in suffering.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just giving you an arrow back to the to the message that was in the pain. It's like you you have overdue tasks.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:50

I'm telling you the same thing and you keep on ignoring it. I heard this thing, I thought it was so funny, and it was like, hey, does anyone know um about the hero's journey? So far, I haven't gotten past refusal of the call.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:06

That's funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:08

I know, I thought it was so cute. I was like, we've been there.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:13

Well, Angel, it's always a pleasure hanging out with you.

unknown 1:20:17

Such a pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:18

Yes. I love that. Um, any uh anything that we touched on that you want to throw another word at?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:29

Um the thing that I told my friend this morning when they called me,

Finding Choice And Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_00 1:20:35

they were having a bad time. They were suffering. Thing I told them suffering. Which is why I was able to say this, because I was like, you're not in pain, you're just suffering at this point. And suffering is a choice. Suffering a choice that you have made this choice to suffer because you refuse to get out of the pain. The pain somehow is serving you, and you're enjoying it because you are now, you get to suffer. And so the thing that I told them was like, you have to find power in the situation. You feeling powerless is really serving your ego, where you like just love being powerless, and you're like, this thing happened again. And I'm like, stop connecting with that person. It's happening again because you're allowing it to like at some point, where is your power in the situation? You're never powerless. Even if this is against you, even if you're in a cult, even if you don't exist in the real world, you have no social security number, you have choice. So you have to find your power in every situation, and you have to rally yourself to use all of it. Use all of it. Why aren't you using all of it? What are you saving it for? Use all of it. So that is the thing. Well, I told her and decides. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:56

Power. Wonderful job.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:00

Sash, another great moment.