Hollywood Confessional
Hollywood secrets... anonymously told.
"You'll never work in this town again."
For decades, those words -- or the sentiment behind them -- have cloaked all manner of evil in the entertainment industry.
As the #MeToo, #TimesUp, #PayUpHollywood, and many other movements demonstrate, times are changing. Yet there are countless things happening behind closed doors that people feel they can't talk about and wish they could.
This podcast changes all that. Actors, writers, crew members and support staffers reveal their wildest behind-the-scenes secrets on this podcast in total anonymity. And then you get to listen to their stories.
Hosted by writer-producers Meagan Daine and J.R. Zamora-Thal, the Hollywood Confessional is a biweekly podcast by Ninth Way Media. New episodes drop every other Thursday. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Connect on social media @fessuphollywood!
Hollywood Confessional
Making Trades: Behind the Scenes at a Hollywood News Outlet
Strike news drops. In Variety, Deadline, The Hollywood Reporter, TheWrap. Hundreds of thousands of people jump on the story, the future subject of their talks, hopes, fears, and social media stands. But where did it come from… and why?
In this week’s episode of the Hollywood Confessional, an entertainment journalist gives the inside scoop on what goes on behind the scenes at a trade publication.
From the insane hours and grueling work to the genuine love of story that drives them — even when the system gets them down — our confessor gets real about how news gets made in Hollywood, and sheds light on how they feel trades should be reevaluated and transformed.
Join us in the booth as we learn about this little-discussed side of the industry and catch up on what’s inspiring us during strike times! #WGAStrong #SAGAFTRAStrong
Connect with us:
Check out some of our favorite shows:
- Screenwriters' Rant Room
- Screaming into the Hollywood Abyss
- It Happened in Hollywood
- The Secret History of Hollywood
Hollywood Confessional is a Ninth Way Media production, produced by Meagan Daine and J.R. Zamora-Thal.
Sound Effects and Music provided by Zapsplat and Pixabay.
Keywords: filmmaking podcast, film podcast, screenwriting podcast, entertainment podcast, Hollywood, filmmaking, writerslife, actorslife, setlife
Inomenes Cinema et TV Espiritus Streaming amen. Hello Hollywood faithful, welcome back to another episode of the Hollywood Confessional. I'm your podcast priest, jr Zamorfol.
Speaker 2:And I'm Megan Dane. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Today is Monday, September 18th. This is the day that we're recording. By the time you hear this, it'll be Thursday and we are currently on day 140 of the writer strike Somewhere in the 50s, I believe, for the actor strike. And just some quick updates for you guys. It's been an interesting few weeks. We have very recently started to see talk shows coming back, and talk shows are covered under a separate contract for SAG-AFTRA, but they often employ WGA writers and so they would be considered struck work. So there has been a lot of conversation about whether these talk shows should go back on the air. Very famous example of Drew Barrymore's show she came back and was going to was going to premiere.
Speaker 1:That's right. That was deeply, deeply upsetting. It was sort of the first time in this strike, I think, where a major celebrity was going against the WGA and it felt like they were going against SAG, but I guess they weren't, since the talk shows are under a different contract.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right and it was interesting. It caused a lot of very high emotion and Drew put out a video saying this is why she did this, and she felt like it was important to own this decision and she seemed to think that she was doing the best thing for people who were part of her crew so that she could continue to employ them. However, there was a very strong reaction from WGA in particular, feeling that this is not, in fact, the best thing for the greatest number of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's no secret that we all need to get back to work. We all want to get back to work and I can totally see that from her point of view. She's putting people to work, putting money in people's pockets, but at the end of the day, she's weakening the bargaining position of the WGA and, by consequence, sag. And that same crew, iotc, is going to have contract negotiations next year and if we don't do our best to get the best contract possible, it's going to hurt IOTC in the long run.
Speaker 2:That's true, and it was really an interesting lesson in what solidarity means to me, because on one hand, I could see this idea of, hey, let's get some people back to work because we can, but also I think we need to get back to work.
Speaker 2:You know what particularly a celebrity chooses to do, any kind of public figure, the choices that they make have really far reaching conclusions and so or ramifications. So what ends up happening is, you know, there's this back and forth and then drew finally decides, okay, I'm actually not going to bring my show back. And then, when she makes that decision, a number of other talk shows also make the same decision, which then strengthens the positions of writers and actors and, as you mentioned, also other crew members who are going to be going into negotiations next year across the board. And so now the WGA and the amptp are planning on going back into negotiations on Wednesday of this week, so by the time you hear this, it will be yesterday. Very confusing this like Trafficking in time, but, but I feel like it really gives us we're coming from a position of great strength. Now, drew's decision to do the right thing and to like reverse course, I think, is a huge part of that.
Speaker 1:It was extremely heartening to see that domino effect of the talk shows deciding not to go forward with their shows and really showed the strength of the WGA at a time when we needed to show strength. Quite frankly, as we're going back, in negotiations exactly so.
Speaker 2:So hooray for that and solidarity. And hey, you guys, listeners, you guys have been hanging with us. We're here as part of this whole big like nationwide labor movement that is going on. Of course, we also added the United Auto workers to the numbers of people who are striking right now and trying to represent the interests of the many against the interests of the greedy few, and that's all I know to say about that. So should we do some like podcasting here?
Speaker 1:yeah, at the risk of this becoming purely a labor movement.
Speaker 2:As you all know, this is the podcast of Hollywood secrets anonymously told, but during the strike we've been pivoting yeah, we've been doing, as you know, some full episode shout outs to people who are making Hollywood happier place and, generally, instead of sharing the deep, dark secrets of people in Hollywood, we've been trying to find ways to like pull back curtains a little bit and share what it's like On other sides of the industry that we may not be hearing as much about.
Speaker 1:This week's confession comes from somebody working in an incredibly powerful part of the industry a trade publication.
Speaker 2:It's called making trades behind the scenes at a Hollywood news outlet. And again, since we are honoring the SAG after strike JR and I will be reading directly from a transcript of our interview with this person ready to do this let's step into the confessional.
Speaker 2:Oh, actually sorry, guys, one quick note before we get started. There's something that you need to know going into this episode, and that is a certain acronym PMC. Pmc is the acronym for Penske Media Corporation, a digital media and publishing company that owns more than 20 brands, including Variety, deadline and the Hollywood reporter. Three trades, one owner.
Speaker 1:That is an important thing to know in the story. Now, are we ready, let's step into the booth.
Speaker 2:I was a journalist at a trade publication for four years and what I learned about the trades is they don't give up. Fuck about the general public Period.
Speaker 1:Wow, how did you come to feel this way?
Speaker 2:When I first started working for my publication I just wanted to do a good job. I was super nervous, like, oh God, I don't want to let anyone down. Then, as I started to work, I was like, oh, there's a lot of responsibilities. I wrote five to seven articles a day. I was a night and weekend editor, so for a year I had no nights and weekends. I was pretty much on call 24 seven. It's not like you need to be on call, but it's kind of like if you're not, then you're not doing a good job. It's that kind of Hollywood vibe. Work culture was bad. All Hollywood work culture is bad, and I feel like that needs to be solved.
Speaker 2:People were not on the same page and I was supposed to know things that I didn't know. I started off on the night shift, which was 12 pm to 9 pm, but I would normally work till 10 or 11. I was salaried, so my overtime didn't matter. When I would start work, I would check my email and I'd already have assignments in my inbox like can you write this up, can you do this? But news happens throughout the day, so I would get paused and I'd have to get like, hey, can you write this up, can you put in this trailer? It was very chaotic, like really, really, really, really, nonstop. As I went on, I'd start writing my own stories, like someone would say, hey, can you write this up for me? And I'd be like, oh, this is not for us, or I'd be all yeah.
Speaker 1:I could do this for you.
Speaker 2:Or I would start taking initiative and be like oh hey, I'll do this and this and this, and then I would slowly get assigned TV reviews Can you do this? Can you go to this event? Can you go to this premiere? Can you do this red carpet? And of course, I said yes to everything and I was grateful for it because I learned about everything. We were always working and always producing content. There were priorities, but those priorities would have like smaller priorities in between them throughout the day. It was really exhausting.
Speaker 2:Eventually, things started to open up for me. I started to do more with award stuff. I love doing award stuff and going to festivals because I love talking to people. I love hearing people's stories. That's where I think trades are needed, because they're how should I put this? It's like when delegates campaign, like in politics. In DC, everyone is trying to get a law or a bill passed. Here, everyone is trying to get a screenplay or a TV show made, and it's kind of the same systems of lobbying and campaigning and the trades are in charge of who's getting visible.
Speaker 1:Who makes those decisions about who's getting visible?
Speaker 2:This is where it gets a little bit. Gray. Trades are very much part of the system. They like to believe that they're not, that they're impartial. But this is an industry about who you know and if you make a connection at a trade magazine, like a writer or an editor, that's a really good relationship to foster because they will remember your name. I think it's an open secret in these cover stories, screening stuff and whatever that. It's a pay for play situation. The studios pay as part of their campaigning. I have no idea how it works. I just know money is involved, like you'll hear conversations and they'll be like oh, so-and-so paid $10,000 to have 15 minutes at this event. You know that kind of stuff. I'm like, how does that even? But I think it's just how they work Regular Hollywood bullshit. You know. I don't want to say it wasn't real journalism, because it is a form of real journalism, but it really started to blur the lines between journalism and marketing.
Speaker 1:How did you feel about that?
Speaker 2:At first I'm like I'm just here to write. I found out what I could do with my platform and I was like, okay, let me exploit this space I'm in. So naturally I lean into what I love, which is diversity. I started to carve this niche for myself as the person who did those kinds of stories, and what I give the publication credit for is they let me do it. But then it became like oh, you're good at this, but at the same time I try to be good at everything. So I would go to TCA and I would also go to Sundance. I would go everywhere.
Speaker 2:This is another thing that trades too well. They do a lot of festival coverage. Each of them have a studio. Talent comes in in like 15 minute increments, one after the other, every film Half the time. I haven't even seen half the movies I'm interviewing them for. So it's kind of like a dog and pony show. But it's also kind of this central Lexis nexus where everything is processed and delivered not only for our consumption in the Hollywood community but for the outside world. It's basically paid publication.
Speaker 1:So how did they decide who wrote about what?
Speaker 2:Some people wanted to be on the hottest shit, while others just wanted to crank out information on a daily basis. I was kind of like in the middle, but I was also like, oh, give me anything queer, black, brown, female driven, whatever I'm going to write about it. But then that kind of backfired People take advantage of you. I don't think this is exclusive to our publication. When you're doing something really good and your work gets exploited, you feel it and it really impacts you. You think about your value. It was really shitty pay and I think that's what makes me kind of have this feeling like about the trades. They really know how to exploit their workers.
Speaker 1:Speaking of worker exploitation, how does the system function during the strikes? If the studios are funding your publication through these pay-to-play situations, then aren't you obligated to repay them through coverage?
Speaker 2:You mean like avatars basically. Essentially, yeah, it's part of the system, like a high school paper. I think they try to be as fair very lowercase fair as Possible. But I think they're inherently on the studio side, old-fashioned ways of thinking. You know they have people, you know, doing videos on the line, interviewing celebrities and stuff like that. But I think there's a difference between the younger journalists there now and the older journalists. I know some of the journalists who have been on the picket lines and giving shine to the joy in the community and the strength that's there.
Speaker 2:But I feel like it's not quite matching with the message the trades are sending in their printed pieces. There seems to be a disjointed thing. It's like technically they have to be nonpartisan or kind of fair and they do make sense of this industry to people who are in it. Do they do a good job? I want to say 70% of the time. But about the strike, the reporting, to me at least, doesn't feel genuine. I'll just put it that way, and that may be me being up in my feelings or it may just be kind of like okay, something right here, like the let them starve article.
Speaker 2:Everyone really leaned on that for a long time and all this has become sensationalized. It was just like, oh, that's so and so, and or people know that's. And I was like, did someone really say that? Like, did someone really say that? I don't know. I was like, oh, is it me or is this thing a little bit melodramatic? You know, it's like I'll let them starve. And I think it just stirred up all this unnecessary Because it started getting messy right then. It was already messy. Then that article came out and then everybody talked about it. I was all, oh god, this is disgusting. Yeah, but that publication knows exactly what they're doing. They know exactly what they're doing because they're used to doing it. I think the trades still come from a space that is linked to the studio and kind of like the wine stain of it all. It's still kind of in that era. But I do think there's a value in trades. It just needs to be re-evaluated. You know, maybe it's time to like re-evaluate what a trade is.
Speaker 1:Do you have any idea of what a new trade would look like like if it was an ideal world and you were making one?
Speaker 2:I think it's important to see younger voices, definitely Because the ones that are reporting the most important stories most of the time aren't the younger ones. If you notice the people who are breaking the stories, it's usually the more senior editors who, yeah, they're progressive, but why? What kind of lens are you putting on it? More people of color, women, queer people, not a niche publication? I think the reporting should stay kind of the same. But who is allowed to tell these stories? We need a check.
Speaker 2:How fair is this Journalism? Quote-unquote when it comes to reporting on strikes or things that are harming the studio, it's our job as journalists to be as fair as possible, but I just don't think that's in the culture anymore, especially in a culture like Hollywood, because it's like oh, we don't want to bruise this ego. I want to preserve that relationship. Everyone's so preoccupied with what's good for themselves rather than the greater good of all things. And I think we also need to address why PMC owns all three trades.
Speaker 2:I may get help for this, but they need a change. They need to combine all three of them or do something, because PMC also owns IndieWire, pmc owns Rolling Stone, pmc owns women's wear daily. They own Hollywood life. They own a lot. Is that fair? Are they fair in their reporting? I don't know what is fair in journalism anymore. I don't know. Do I even care enough to put up a fight? I Don't know. I think I'm just so jaded at this point, like if my publication comes after me for this and tries to sue me. I'm like well, you didn't pay me enough to get the money you want from me.
Speaker 1:What would you say to people who are maybe early in their careers and they're reading all this stuff in the trades and feeling confused about what's happening in Hollywood?
Speaker 2:The industry is kind of in disarray right now. It's a mess, but that's kind of leveling the playing ground in this weird, interesting way. I think this is a good time to explore, take advantage of the mess, try shit now, because when it's time to get back to work you're going to have a lot of boundaries. Be fearless, but read the room. Now is also the time to start building a network. I think a lot of people forget that Hollywood is a community. You need to find your community, strengthen numbers. It's interesting when I meet other people from the trades, especially the younger journalists and journalists of color and the female journalists. We have this strange soldiers in war bond. We automatically know how each other feel. There is this benefit of being in this community where we help each other and I know that's kumbaya and bullshit, but it's true. It's like that old proverb move alone, you move faster, move together, you move further.
Speaker 1:Amen to that. Go create in peace. Wow, it's always interesting to hear from somebody on the inside.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually knew nothing about how trades functioned until this strike and it's been so interesting to learn. You know, because if you're following the news you kind of start to feel like a little whiplash, because one publication says one thing and then somebody else says something completely different, and even the same publication sometimes has, like, completely differing points of view. It's very confusing.
Speaker 1:And our confessor hit on it there's a cognitive dissonance between some of what the trades are reporting and what you see on the actual line, like when we're on the picket line. There is so much joy and there is so much community, even though we are fighting tooth and nail for our you know, very survival. It feels like sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right and you know it is. I mean, I guess it's just sort of part of the thing. You know, there is no one story of the strike, the strike or the strikes. They are all very complicated stories and, like, every individual has a different experience of what they mean. But at the same time, I think what stood out most to me was sort of the comment about how much content is being created and, like this confessor was only one person, but they were churning out five to seven articles a day. That's a lot of content and just continually writing whatever story, story, story, story, story. So that's another reason why you might end up with, like, all these sort of different points of view on something because hey, the material is out there and we got a report on it and so you know, we just throw it up there and move on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, and what that says to me is like there is not one single person in this industry that isn't being pushed to the brink of burnout these days. That's right. Five to seven articles a day. Like I would have finger cramps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no joke. And they were talking about being on call 24 seven and just how exhausting it all was. So you know. I want to say thank you to this confessor for sharing their story with us and for helping us understand just the human side of what it's like to work at one of these publications.
Speaker 1:Definitely, before we go, you want to hear one of my favorite fun facts.
Speaker 2:Yes, please.
Speaker 1:One of the original ways to get your medical marijuana card in California was writer's cramps from typing too much.
Speaker 2:No way, that is amazing.
Speaker 1:I hope the Confessor has their card.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that's amazing. Also, one other fun fact the Confessor talked about what a new trade might look like and we are super excited that we have an episode coming up with a shout out to a sort of a new trade. It's a publication called July Magazine and we have the publishers speaking with us about how they came to this idea of creating a magazine that highlights the work of diverse up and coming creators and their first two issues I always say episodes. Their first two issues are directly related to the strike. There are some conversations between actors and writers who have been very involved in the strike and what it means to all of them. So it's kind of exactly like what this Confessor was talking about and we're super excited to talk with them and share that with you guys next time. Thanks so much for joining us. You guys Please share, review wherever you get your podcasts and hit us up at fesuphollywoodcom if you have some stories to share or some shout outs to give. We would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1:Until our next episode, go create and peace. The Hollywood Confessional is produced by Megan Dane and JR Zamora Thall, special effects provided by Zapp Splat and Pixabay. Hollywood Confessional is a ninth way media production. Follow us on socials at fesuphollywood.