Hollywood Confessional

Last One Standing

• Ninth Way Media • Season 3 • Episode 13

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Welcome back Hollywood Faithful! 

Surviving the emotional waves of Hollywood layoffs is no small feat. This week, our guest, a project manager in post-production localization, shares their story of how they watched as most of their team disappeared. 

Join us for an interesting conversation about the difficulty of survivor's guilt and the uncertainty of a volatile industry.

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Hollywood Confessional is a Ninth Way Media production, produced by Meagan Daine and J.R. Zamora-Thal.

Sound Effects and Music provided by Zapsplat and Pixabay.

Keywords: filmmaking podcast, film podcast, screenwriting podcast, entertainment podcast, Hollywood, filmmaking, writerslife, actorslife, setlife

Speaker 1:

In nomine Cinema e TV, Espiritu Streaming Amen.

Speaker 2:

Hello Hollywood faithful, Welcome back to another episode of the Hollywood Confessional. I am your podcast priest, Megan Dane.

Speaker 1:

And I'm JR Zamora-Thal and, just to remind everybody, this is the podcast where we invite industry professionals to share their deep, dark Hollywood secrets, and today we've got a deeper, darker secret, I think. It involves something I think many of us are going through as the industry contracts a little bit, which is layoffs.

Speaker 2:

We typically start off episodes. You know, kind of joking around in this and that, but we talked a little bit about it beforehand. It's like this is no joke.

Speaker 1:

It's very real life.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, some real shit that we're about to get into, so why not just get into it?

Speaker 1:

Let's step into the confessional booth.

Speaker 3:

Forgive me, father, for half my team got laid off and I didn't.

Speaker 2:

Survivor's Guilt is real Talk to us.

Speaker 3:

I work in post-production. I'm a project manager for a company that deals with what's called localization, which is basically dubbing and subtitling. The way it works is a project manager from, say, warner Brothers brings us a project. They say we need this subtitled in 42 languages and dubbed in 30 languages by these dates. We then say for this amount of work, here's how much you'll have to pay us. Then, as a project manager, I go out and try to find the best rates from dubbing and subtitling studios or from freelancers and I coordinate the delivery. There's a lot of different scenarios that can come up at various stages of the process. For example, we can get something dubbed from a studio, but when the client sees that, they say the actor's reading was weird on this line or the translation doesn't work so I have to go back to the studio and get it retranslated or have them bring the actor back in to do it again.

Speaker 1:

So you basically need training in international diplomacy to do this.

Speaker 3:

There's a lot of back and forth and the job definitely takes a while to learn. I didn't exactly set out to work in localization. I started my career in script development. I worked eight or nine years in the area, first in Europe, then in the US, and then I did a bit of development for reality TV. But at some point I started looking for something more stable. As we all know, there's not a lot of stability in the entertainment industry. I found out about localization and I realized okay, this is a new space I haven't explored. I was also curious, coming where I come from.

Speaker 3:

I grew up learning English with subtitles, so I have a deep respect and appreciation for this part of TV and filmmaking being done right. So I got the job and I started working in this area. I soon realised it was a lot more work than I had anticipated but luckily there was one project manager who was especially helpful and really supportive. She'd been working in subtitling a long time, she had a lot of experience and she was a big fan of movies and loved reading just a very, very sweet person. So with her help I got settled into the job and I became part of what turned out to be a very tight-knit team. We worked very closely together. We'd cover for each other. We helped each other on projects for years, and then the industry started to change.

Speaker 3:

This is late 2022, early 2023. Chatgpt launched, so there was suddenly a lot more conversation about AI. There was also rumours of a writer's strike. I started to get nervous, but nobody else seemed worried.

Speaker 3:

The majority of my colleagues have worked in this space for way longer than I have, and the major companies in this space have been around for a long time, so these jobs feel very stable.

Speaker 3:

The people who get them and stay here, they kind of know they're always going to have a job. So I was trying to raise alarm bells and be like look, this isn't going to be like anything we've ever seen before. I really feel like this is going to affect us in some way. But everyone else seemed to think it was smooth sailing, like, well, they're going to keep the boat floating like they've done in the past, and for a while it seemed like they were right. We got all the way through the strikes with no major layoffs. But then, at the beginning of 2024, the companies started having sort of mini layoffs. You'd hear like, oh, these two people have been laid off, just two from this department, and the way they would justify it would be oh, you know, during COVID we hired so many people because it was a bigger demand. So now we're just trimming the fat, which is a terrible term that I hate, but it's just what they were saying.

Speaker 1:

Did you believe them or did you always have a sense that this was just the beginning?

Speaker 3:

I was trying to stay positive. I figured maybe they were trying to prevent a big round of layoffs by doing these little trims. But it turns out I was wrong. One day we woke up and half our team said we have these weird early meetings at 8am with HR and the manager. What's that about?

Speaker 3:

It was around the time when we were supposed to get one-on-one performance reviews. We usually get like a 2% raise around this time. So I was like oh, I'm sure it's fine. In my heart I was even a little bit jealous because I was like I don't have a meeting. What's going on? I'm not getting a raise? Oh no. But I was like it's fine, they deserve it. I hope they're even getting a little bit extra.

Speaker 3:

I was trying to be happy for them, but then in the middle of it, one of my friends sent me a message saying I'm getting laid off. Here's my number in case you want to contact me. I was like, yeah, right, what kind of joke is this at 8am. But she was like no, this is for real, I'm getting laid off. And then, of course, the penny dropped and I was like oh, that means this person is getting laid off and this person is getting laid off and we just sort of went into panic mode. I was slacking my direct manager like hey, what's going on? Did you know about this? And she was like no, I didn't know.

Speaker 2:

And it was all like immediate, I mean they weren't given notice, it was just like it's over, goodbye.

Speaker 3:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

Oh my God.

Speaker 3:

It's basically like a 10, 15 minute meeting per person. They would just go in. Our department director would be there with an HR person. They would be like here, this is what's happening. We're doing mass layoffs because we don't have a lot of work. You're going to be signed out of everything. This is your last day, so you got absolutely zero heads up, no time to prepare, no time to do anything, and you're just unceremoniously ejected from the company.

Speaker 2:

This is so fucking wrong, yeah, not to mention traumatizing, to everybody involved.

Speaker 3:

It is. All of us on the team had gone through layoffs in the past. We know exactly how bad it can feel and how much of a long-term effect it can have on your psyche. The first job I cared about when I moved to LA was with a video licensing company. I started from the bottom as an intern and then I slowly moved up all the way to being a development producer. That was a very boom and bust kind of company and at the time I didn't know that's a normal situation here.

Speaker 3:

Back in Europe. I was a grade A student. I'd always had jobs where I was appreciated. Where I've grown, I never went through any sort of layoffs. I've never been fired. I kind of associated these jobs to my identity in some way. So when I landed the job with the licensing company and started growing, getting close with people and everything, then they had that same thing three rounds of layoffs. They started trimming everybody off, conserving the core team. I was in my mid-30s and had never experienced anything like this. I thought I can do whatever I can prove myself as long as I'm given a chance. But they did three rounds of layoffs and I was part of the last one, which was the majority of the people, it was typical, unceremonious brought into an office 10 minute meeting. Unfortunately, we've signed you off of everything. That's it. Be on your merry way.

Speaker 3:

Oh, and the funny thing is the morning before my car had been totaled what? I was sitting at a stoplight and this guy just rammed into me and totaled the side of my car. I still made it to work because I was like the car still runs. I was still trying to be the A-plus employee Showing up at work. I was all shaken. I was already half out of my body because of that.

Speaker 3:

And then I got called into this meeting and it was like guess what? You're being laid off. Oh, my god, I'm so sorry. At that point I had to laugh. I was like this is ridiculous. Everybody was looking at me with such pity, knowing I'd just been through that accident, and I was feeling kind of like good about it. I was like, yes, you should feel bad. All of you people who are staying feel bad for me. That was the only thing I could take. I was like I don't care about your feelings, I only care about my feelings. Right now, you should feel bad.

Speaker 3:

A week later they called me back and asked if I wanted to come back as a contractor.

Speaker 3:

Of course they did no-transcript, and even though it felt like some sort of redemption, I still carry the trauma of that rejection, and when other people get rejected in that way, I feel for them. So that morning at my current job, when we realised what was happening, I started reliving all that trauma. I realised my manager, another co-worker and I were the only three people on my team who didn't have meetings scheduled, meaning we were the only ones who were staying. So I started talking to them about how we could best support the people who were getting laid off. We realized that one more of our team members had a meeting coming up, a nice project manager who had helped me so much when I started. She was the most experienced member of the team and the oldest, and she was also taking care of her elderly parents. We decided to call her and give her a heads up for, I don't know, maybe a little closure, and when we got her on the phone, she was already crying.

Speaker 3:

Oh no, oh god, it was super heartbreaking. We told her what was up and she just said yeah, I figured. Nobody ever talks about how traumatizing it is to be set aside like that. People like to think the job I'm doing doesn't define me, but I think it does on some level, because we spend so much of our waking hours with this job and the people we're working with and we want some sense of security and, of course, our livelihood is tied to it our medical insurance so saying, yeah, well, it doesn't matter, it's just a job, I can get another job. It's not true.

Speaker 3:

Ultimately, around 15% of the company, which is a big global company, got laid off. The majority of people were from the US, because we're the most expensive employees and now we're restructuring, trying to figure out how we can handle the work from the people who are no longer working with us. Since the layoffs, we've been keeping in touch with people from our team and trying to follow their journey and help in any way we can, but the reality is very, very few people that were laid off have been able to find jobs. The last time I talked to the project manager, I could tell she was not in a good place.

Speaker 2:

Given this whole experience, have you learned anything that might help people who have been laid off or think they might be?

Speaker 3:

I would say seek therapy immediately, because back when I got laid off for the first time, I didn't. I just kind of ruminated on it for years before I actually started talking about it. I think it's very important to have support and talk to people who have your back, people who understand, even if they haven't gone through it themselves. It's important to surround yourself with people who will validate you instead of just saying oh, you're going to find another job, don't worry. I don't understand this fake stoicism we have to put on when it comes to these things. Any other kind of trauma. It's like, oh, it's terrible, it's such a blow, but we don't talk about how much layoffs affect people. You develop anxiety, you develop a lot of fears. You don't really want to take risks. When I started in the localization industry, I had a pull to maybe go back into development, but I felt like, no, this is a safe place to be. I cannot take risks unnecessarily. It just becomes survival over everything and you feel like you kind of have to hold on.

Speaker 1:

Do you think you're going to be able to hold on to this job or do you think there's going to be more layoffs?

Speaker 3:

Considering how evasive my director was when I last talked to him, I do think there'll be more layoffs. They're telling us we won't have another one this year, but I'm having a lot of trouble believing them.

Speaker 2:

If you could say anything to the people who are making these decisions, what would you say?

Speaker 3:

Oh my gosh. So many things Such as, such as don't do it this way. I've been talking about this ad nauseum with my colleagues. They are not allowed to do it this way in Europe. They have to tell you we are going to have layoffs. They have to give you notice, and it's usually like three months it's not weeks, unless you've documented bad behavior, issues with your work. But even that it rarely happens, because they realize that people depend on their work, even though there's subsidized medicine there and people don't rely on these jobs as much as they do in the States.

Speaker 3:

It's illegal to lay off a bunch of people in a 10-minute session. You cannot do that. People depend on their livelihoods, they have kids, they have elderly parents who rely on them. This is pretty common sense over there that you cannot do this. You're creating generations and generations of traumatized people. For what? And you're not getting the best out of people. You're just getting people who are trying to survive and make it through another day and don't really give a shit about your company. So, yeah, I don't know. Give people a heads up offer, support. Don't cut off medical benefits, because that's crazy. There has to be a different way to do this, especially in california. We're one of the richest states in the country, in the richest country in the world. It's really mind-boggling, when you think about it as a European, that comes here thinking America, land of possibilities. I'm like there's so much wealth going around. How is it that we haven't improved the way of doing this? So be better. That's what I would say to them.

Speaker 1:

Amen. Thank you so much for burdening your soul with us. Go create in peace with us.

Speaker 2:

Go create in peace. Okay, so many things to talk about in that episode. One of the things that hits me the hardest is the inhumanity in the way that these things are handled, and it reminds me of a story that I was hearing from a friend just the other day who experienced some layoffs, and in that person's situation, they didn't even get called into an office or anything. They just tried to log onto their accounts and found that they were locked out. Nobody bothered to even tell these people that they were losing their jobs, and that is absolutely reprehensible.

Speaker 1:

It's so infuriating and at the risk of sounding like an old man shaking his fist at the sky.

Speaker 1:

It seems to me that there's such an epidemic of non-communication going on these days. I mean, it trickles all the way down to like I was on an airplane and somebody wanted the seat next to me and just stood in the aisle as I had my headphones on reading a book, because they didn't want to tap me on the shoulder and ask if they could sit in the seat next to me. They just stood there looking at me until finally I felt their presence and looked up. That's a little creepy.

Speaker 1:

And that's benign. It's creepy and benign, but to me it's indicative of a larger problem that you see in a harmful way when people get laid off and they're not even told that they're laid off. It's one thing to not be able to plan if you get told in the day, but at least you can start dealing with it that day. I know if it were me I would think tech issue before I got laid off and this would fuck with me for a week before I even realized that I didn't have a job.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's really true. That's a great point. I mean, yeah, that's the thing that, like communication, is necessary for human life.

Speaker 1:

Yes, we're social creatures.

Speaker 2:

We're social creatures, we have to communicate, to connect with each other. When you remove that element from our interactions, they are not human interactions anymore and they remove this piece of what we are as beings. And I think, like you say, it's sort of it's epidemic. It's everywhere, it's in every aspect of our lives. We lose the ability to communicate and we end up in situations where we want to sit in a seat but we feel like we can't even talk to somebody because we've gotten so conditioned to not being able to express things and not being treated with respect. I mean, obviously you would have been very happy to say of course you can sit here, Let me get up and let you get in, or whatever.

Speaker 1:

And as an introvert, I understand the fear or the adrenaline kick that comes with talking to a stranger or talking to somebody and asking for what you want. But there is literally no other way to get what you want than to use your voice and communicate Right, and if we're not communicating with each other, the whole damn system breaks down.

Speaker 2:

That's right, and the fact that this is a top-down problem is what makes it Truly harmful. Absolutely, absolutely. I love what the confessor was saying. If they could talk to the people that made these decisions, whose idea was it to just lock people out of their accounts and not yeah, what cruel motherfucker thought this was of their accounts? And not?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what cruel motherfucker thought this was the right thing to do.

Speaker 2:

Right, I mean, could you not give people a day a week?

Speaker 1:

Whose parents didn't hug them enough and teach them how to be productive members of society.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's. That's clearly the problem. Parents hug your children.

Speaker 1:

Don't create sociopaths. Parents hug your children.

Speaker 2:

Don't create sociopaths. If you need a seat, ask somebody. And if you need any kind of help, if you are experiencing any kind of struggle related to a layoff, there are some resources in the Hollywood community for you. A couple that we can name is the Entertainment Community Fund, as well as our own, Joel Garfinkel's Green Envelope Grocery Fund, still functioning.

Speaker 1:

They will provide different types of assistance financial assistance and other kinds for people who are experiencing a shortfall due to lack of work, and if you can't find the help that you need and you just need somebody to help you find that help please feel free to reach out to the podcast. We're at FessUpHollywood, on Instagram and X, and we would be more than happy to help lend a hand in your search for what you need.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. I hope everyone out there is doing well and keeping the faith.

Speaker 1:

Until next time, go create in peace special effects provided by zap splat and pixabay. Hollywood confessional is a ninth way media production. Follow us on socials at fess up hollywood.