Hollywood Confessional

Portrait of a Survivor Part 2

• Ninth Way Media • Season 3 • Episode 16

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"When I first met him, I was like, this guy is going to be a fucking problem."

In Part 2 of our oral history "Portrait of a Survivor," we hear from a new perspective on an abusive Hollywood showrunner... that of his assistant's close friend.

"He has that cult leader personality, that sort of psychopath thing where he's very superficially charming. I know a lot of people with those personalities."

We hear how our confessor escaped the toxic situation with her friend's clear-eyed perspective and support. And we see how it all came roaring back to her years later, when she saw a warning on an assistant board against working with someone... and the subject line was her abuser's name.

"I think the initial email came out at like eight in the morning. By 10:30, there were like 15 more emails from different people, like, 'He's a terrorist.' 'He's the worst person I ever met.' All these people sharing their experiences. Then a reporter reached out to me asking for a comment."

As the confessor and her friend navigate the process of trying to go public about a powerful abuser in Hollywood, we're also joined by TV/film critic and journalist Maureen "Mo" Ryan. Mo has worked with countless survivors, especially for her book Burn It Down. In the process, she has found perspective... and even hope.

"Anyone, in any job, is often confused about what to do about a problematic situation. But in this industry, the disincentives are huge. And those have not really gone away... But many, many people have found a positive way forward from having come forward."

Join us for this powerful conclusion of "Portrait of a Survivor" to see how our confessor dealt with the fallout of abuse in her own life, and how she found the strength and support she needed to move on.


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Hollywood Confessional is a Ninth Way Media production, produced by Meagan Daine and J.R. Zamora-Thal.

Sound Effects and Music provided by Zapsplat and Pixabay.

Keywords: filmmaking podcast, film podcast, screenwriting podcast, entertainment podcast, Hollywood, filmmaking, writerslife, actorslife, setlife

Speaker 1:

Previously on Portrait of a Survivor.

Speaker 2:

I was talking to my friend and I was like leaning over the bar and I was wearing a dress. It wasn't a short dress where you could see my, you know whatever but I was leaning over in a dress and walked by and grabbed my ass.

Speaker 3:

So some of those guys, you know right away you're dealing with a predator. We learned to expect that behavior, we learned to expect the monster, and that makes it harder for people who are friends with a person who's not behaving appropriately to see that behavior for what it is.

Speaker 2:

Came in a couple minutes later. He's like what's up? And I said he grabbed my ass and you know his response was like I knew this was going to happen and I was like I want to report him. And he's like, well, we've got to be smart about this. Maybe the solution is that you just don't come into the office anymore when you're at the point of feeling like you're dirt. Then you accept dirt.

Speaker 3:

So it was then that the abuse really started.

Speaker 4:

When I was maybe 25, my friend was an assistant on a show, was the number two on the show, he ran the writer's room and they loved him and he was a great boss because he's good at managing the staff. As a number two, he's good at making that guy the enemy. You know, he has that cult leader personality, that sort of psychopath thing where he's very superficially charming, and I know a lot of people with those personalities. So when I first met him I was like this guy is going to be a fucking problem.

Speaker 2:

We started forming this codependent relationship. I was at his house all the time we were working on this pilot. He had to fire his nanny for insane reasons I can't get into, and then he asked if I would want to be the nanny. He was going to pay me more than my actual salary that I was getting paid to be his assistant, so I felt like I couldn't say no. He kept making all these promises about if his pilot went I would be staffed, so it felt like I could see light at the end of the tunnel.

Speaker 4:

One day there was a party at his house. My friend was dressed up all cute. She was an assistant, so she was making no money, but she had on these cute shoes, high heels, and because we were on grass she had taken her heels off and B***h took one of her heels and threw it for his puppy to fetch. Nobody else clocked that it was weird or bad. So I was like, oh, this guy's a big problem, because not only does he do these things, but the people who are with him every day have been conditioned not to see them.

Speaker 2:

We went to lunch with a friend of ours. This was somebody that I really liked. We had been on a show together. We went to lunch with a friend of ours. This was somebody that I really liked, we had been on a show together, but we hadn't really talked about why I wasn't coming into the office anymore. When we got together for lunch started joking about how the reason I wasn't coming into the office was because everyone wants a piece of me. He was joking about it in a way that there was a kernel of truth, but made it to a funny thing, you know, and our friend was kind of playing along. He was like, oh well, yeah, who hasn't thought of a night with her? Now, when I say it, I'm like he shouldn't have even said that. But at the time I was like, oh, this is just an awkward situation. Bleep is putting him in. And then Bleep's response to that was yeah.

Speaker 2:

The first day I met her, I fantasized about us having a night together and our clothes passionately falling to the ground. But then I knew it would never work out between us and I was just standing there and I was like you're talking about me in the third person and about this situation that I didn't have any control of, in response to why I haven't been in the office. It was very manipulative in a way that, like if you were the other person, it just seems like a jokey, lighthearted conversation. But to have your boss talk about you that way, it was very confusing Because on one hand, he'd be like, oh, you're my little sister, I'm going to protect you, and then on the other, he was literally throwing me to the wolves and he himself was a wolf.

Speaker 4:

Years go by. My friend is his assistant for probably a decade. He sexually harassed her. He was racist. He was terrible in all these different ways her.

Speaker 2:

He was racist, he was terrible in all these different ways. I was like manning his kids. So I was literally sitting at the kitchen table feeding his daughters and I was working on his outline. He was a great writer, but he was a procrastinator. He would spend all day, you know, drinking wine and smoking cigarettes and doing anything but actually writing. And so all of a sudden the outline was due and he was stressed about it. So he asked if I could start on it for him. He's like just put down the beats, you don't have to write it, I'll rewrite it. But essentially I was writing the outline.

Speaker 2:

So I'm doing this, I'm feeding his children, he's like in the next room tinkering at the piano, and all of a sudden I feel a pair of jeans smack me in the head and he's like can you order me a pair of these jeans? I need more pants. And I'm looking at my computer, looking at his kids. I feel these pair of pants hit me and I'm like I can't do this anymore. Thankfully he was starting to have conversations with me that he didn't think his deal was going to get renewed. He didn't think he was going to be able to keep me as an assistant, so I started to look for other jobs. The last time I saw him I'd gotten into the guilt, but I hadn't gotten staffed.

Speaker 2:

So I was getting breakfast with people I knew, as we do, getting advice. So we were sitting at breakfast and he was telling me about how he had a show that we'd worked on together that had gone. He was running it. I didn't even get a call to meet on it, so I very nervously asked him I'm like you know, I haven't worked in a year. This is the longest I've gone. What would you do if you were me? He turned to me and said you know a lot of powerful men. What I would do is I would say my service is a thousand dollars and you can do whatever you want with me for a night. I was like what do you mean by that? Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, and he said what do you think?

Speaker 4:

My stomach dropped, but I was in a different emotional place, so I knew after that breakfast, this is the last time I'm going to be in his presence has worked for a bunch of different networks and that does make a difference, because complaints don't accumulate and also hr doesn't give a shit about assistants, like if she can't handle him, get a new assistant. He's the person that matters.

Speaker 2:

Years later I'm on like a script coordinator writer's assistant tracking board. It's mainly people sharing scripts, but sometimes it's negotiating rates and posting jobs and stuff like that, and something came through on the board and the subject was his name. I was like oh shit.

Speaker 4:

It was a thing about how terrible this assistance experience was working for what a narcissist is, how abusive he is, how terrible the situation is.

Speaker 2:

I think the initial email came out at like eight in the morning, by 1030,. There were like 15 more emails from different people that were like I worked with him on a show and he was a terrorist. I worked with him here and he's the worst person I ever met All these people sharing their experiences. Then a reporter reached out to me asking for a comment.

Speaker 4:

I reached out to Mo Ryan, because that's who you want to write one of these things she was doing, so she couldn't do it. So we worked with this journalist and my friend agreed to speak on the record. She wanted me to be there because she's one of my best friends and we were close through the whole process.

Speaker 2:

It felt like this story was bigger than me. This is someone who is still abusing people Maybe not to the extent that he did with me, but maybe even worse and he's still out there and he's still getting work. So I agreed to meet the reporter, wanted to meet at the, which is like a Hollywood institution. The thing that was so crazy about meeting this reporter there is that that was a restaurant that and I would go to a lot. So as I was talking to this reporter, it was like I could literally see images of us in a booth having martinis in the middle of the day and I'm like what the hell was that relationship?

Speaker 4:

So we went through the whole thing. I told the journalist the story I told you guys about throwing the shoe and the journalist said I don't get it. And I said what don't you get? And she was like I don't get what he did, that was bad and what that says about him. And my stomach just sank because I was like if you don't understand the nature of a narcissistic abuser, I don't know that you should be writing these stories. Like we're talking about a Keith Raniere, you know what I mean? We're talking about a cult leader type abuser. You can't necessarily just list the things he did. You have to explain the context, why they're abusive, how this stuff escalates. Ultimately, the article didn't come out very well. I'm not saying the journalist is a bad writer, I'm just saying she was the wrong person for this piece. The only thing that works is Mo Ryan writes something about them, that's it. There's no point in going to anyone else. She's the only one who understands the psychology.

Speaker 5:

Here's the thing there have been stories Mo Ryan has done and nothing happened. Here's the thing there have been stories Mo Ryan has done and nothing happened.

Speaker 1:

This audio is taken from the Hollywood Confessional interview with Mo Ryan on June 20th 2024.

Speaker 5:

For anyone, this can be a difficult process to navigate, but especially for the people with the least power, it's incredibly fraught. People do pay a cost. Before you even start that process of asking around or talking to people, there's the cost of is this all in my head? And then there's the slow drip. Drip of sort of like the slow and steady attack on your self-esteem because you think and the industry is training you to think a lot of people, I can't cut it, it's me, I'm the problem. I want to sit here and tell you as someone who's been around this industry for more than 30 years no one's perfect, but a lot of the time what I'm witnessing and what I'm hearing about is someone being made to feel that they cannot trust their own senses, their own mind, their own emotions, their own reaction.

Speaker 2:

It feels like a fever dream now, like that. For years this was someone in my orbit. We would just drink in the middle of the day and he would sell me all these promises about my career and like who I was as a person. It just felt like a fraud. When the article came out, I checked my phone all the time for like a week after you know, seeing if he was going to contact me or yell at me you know stuff like that but he never did and nothing ever came of that article. I later had coffee with someone who was working on show when the article came out and she was saying that when the article came out there were many closed door meetings. Apparently the reason he was not fired is because the star of the show adores him. He's protected because of her.

Speaker 4:

It's really sad because he's hurt so many people Like the story didn't matter. It just didn't matter the shit that he did to my friend, the shit he did to anybody. And now the article has been written, that's it. There can't be another one. He's in the clear. Now the article has been written, that's it. There can't be another one.

Speaker 2:

He's in the clear now. There's no way the star didn't know about this article, but he's so good at like. If you're in his light he is good to you, but if he can't get anything from you, he is a completely different person, and it all just makes me very very sad, Not just for me but for a lot of people.

Speaker 4:

I'm not done with this, For my friend doing the article was about protecting future assistants you know what I mean and trying to keep him from doing the same thing to other people. So I personally have been thinking about it a lot, but I would never suggest that she get back into it again. I just don't fucking know what you do. What do you do?

Speaker 5:

There's not really easy answers to any of it. I think continuing to just at least have a forum to talk about these difficult things, you just at least have a forum to talk about these difficult things. Like anyone in any job is often confused about what to do about a situation. You know a problematic situation, but I think in this industry the disincentives are huge and those have not really gone away. Like we wouldn't be having this conversation and you wouldn't have this podcast if it was like well, I fixed it, but many, many people have found a positive way forward from having come forward.

Speaker 2:

There's a part of me that's so bruised emotionally that I'm like did I do something wrong? Like could I have done something different? When I'm in a vulnerable place where I have to think about it, that's when I like to start to question things, but for the most part I'm like no, like he's a fucking abusive asshole.

Speaker 5:

The ultimate question is am I going to destroy my career if I try to do something about X, wreck my future? I am not overly prone to optimism, but I honestly think that that doesn't have to be the case. I'm really proud of this. The very first story I did posed me to the first big workplace misconduct story I did. I had 19 sources and none of them blew up their career.

Speaker 2:

I ended up interviewing with someone we had tangentially known and the interview was wonderful. I remember thinking, oh, this is how a boss should act. I remember asking him at the end of the interview how long do you think it would be before I find out if I got the job? And he looked down at his watch and said you got the job.

Speaker 6:

And he looked down at his watch and said you got the job. Hello, hollywood Faithful, thank you so much for joining us. I am your podcast priest, megan Dane, no-transcript and our personal career trajectories and all that.

Speaker 6:

I think those of you guys who have been listening for a while now you know that the reason we started this podcast was to give people a safe space where they could tell their stories, confess their deep, dark secrets, and I think we started out with this particular series of these two episodes just wanting to create that safe space. But then we realized all of a sudden there are a lot of people who have stories about this one person and in fact a lot of these stories have been told and yet nothing has happened to impact this person's career. In fact, they are still a showrunner of one of the biggest shows on television. I guess we're kind of grappling with that a little bit and the feeling of like is it enough to just give people a space to tell their stories? Can we do more? And what does it mean that this story or this version of events is now out there in the world?

Speaker 1:

I think an important part of this podcast for me is getting these stories out there for the people that are coming into Hollywood, the young people and the dreamers that are coming to Hollywood to just start their careers, because these predators are out there and those are the kind of people that they're going to be targeting, and I think it's so important for all of you coming to have this knowledge, because knowledge is power when you don't have any other power. I want you to be able to recognize these patterns so that you can step away if you have to, because no job in Hollywood is worth getting abused over, and I know that you might need the money. You obviously have the dream if you're coming here, but no path is a straight line. You can always take a step back, you can always take a step to the side, because getting abused just is not worth it, and if you can recognize those patterns, maybe you can stop it before it starts.

Speaker 6:

Being able to recognize these types of positions or these types of situations, these types of people, going into it is going to be so helpful. I mean, I've been in a number of situations like this throughout my career, not just in Hollywood but beyond and in life, and and I didn't I wasn't made aware, I guess, beforehand, like I didn't grow up in the type of household where you would talk about personality disorders or, you know, go to therapy or anything like that. So, so I didn't realize what it was that made me attracted to these kinds of people and made, um, made them attracted to me, um, what made me a likely victim. So I've been through these types of situations over and over again and I know that once you get into them, it's not it. It may not necessarily look like, oh, I'm walking into a toxic situation, right, you know, like the confessor's friend said in the second episode, these are the types of people who are going to be very charming, who are going to win you over, who are going to make you feel like everything is going to be great with them. And when you first start working for them, maybe you really need that. I mean, hollywood is a hard place and you need for somebody to tell you that you have potential or that you're special. I had a boss that was very abusive in general and also toward me, who a week after I started working for this person, like took me out to breakfast and was, like you realize how special you are, right and like that was. That was the hook and they get you in like that and they make you feel like they're going to open up the world to you and give you all these opportunities.

Speaker 6:

So then by the time you realize that that's not going to happen, or you start to see like the signs that maybe they're not delivering on their promises or maybe they're just not the good person that you thought they were, it's kind of too late.

Speaker 6:

Because you're so invested principle right Like you've invested a huge amount of time and energy into this and at the same time, a lot of times these types of people will isolate you. They will take up so much of your time and energy that suddenly, like you're not networking anymore, you're not able to talk to or develop relationships with other people in their circle not meaningful relationships at any rate and you're also like probably not even having time for your friends and family. It's starting to sound very cultish. Well, guess what? That's because these people operate in the same way as cult leaders, right? They bring people into their circle by making them feel loved and special, and then they exploit the hell out of them. So if you get into that type of situation I think I don't know it can be really really hard to accept that that's what's happening, because it means that, first of all, you're not getting the thing that you thought you were in the beginning.

Speaker 6:

The validation and the opportunities that you thought you were getting early on. Those are all gone. And second of all, it means that you've kind of been played for a fool, and that's a terrible thing to have to reckon with.

Speaker 1:

And I think it's important to realize that if it happens to you, it's through no fault of your own, it's the fault of the predator, and once you're ready to take a step, you can always take a step forward, a step out, a step to wherever you need to go to take that first step to making the situation better. And I think an important resource that we found through the Hollywood Commission is MyConnex.

Speaker 6:

Yeah, that's right. The Hollywood Commission, for those who don't know, is an organization that works to end harassment, discrimination and bullying and abuse in the entertainment industry. They're the ones that put out the I think it's biennial report. That kind of shows like the facts and figures about who's working in what departments at what levels in the industry and their demographics. And they also have created this online tool called MyConnects, which is amazing. You can find it by going to their website, hollywoodcommissionorg, and look at the menu, and there's a link to MyConnects.

Speaker 6:

And what this is is it's an online reporting system where you can do a lot of different things. If you have experienced some kind of harassment, you can either just make a note of it and save it in the system. It goes to no one. All it does is timestamp the incident right so you can keep records. That way, you can also submit a report, but stay anonymous until someone else also submits a report on the same person. So this can be really important if you feel like you know, like maybe I'm the only one this is happening to, or a lot of times.

Speaker 6:

These kinds of abusers are great gaslighters. So maybe you're not sure if you're being abused, or maybe you're imagining things or maybe you did something to deserve it. You know, all of those horrible thoughts go through our heads, right? So you can file a report and then wait to be notified. You know, all of those horrible thoughts go through our heads, right, so you can file a report and then wait to be notified. And if somebody else files a report on the same person, then you get a notification and then you can decide whether or not you want to pursue some kind of action against this person.

Speaker 6:

And I think if this tool had existed at the time when the confessor in the show was um was going through the abuse, it might've sort of changed Hollywood history, because there were many, many people who had experienced issues with this person and part of the part of the problem was that he continued to move from show to show, network to network, these different shows, different networks, their HR departments are not sharing information. So if anybody ever did report him, it wasn't being like collated and filed to, like create this file of or the show of like long-term abuse on the part of this person. But now, thanks to this tool, myconnects that kind of paper trail can be created and people who have worked on different productions with someone can come together and form a coalition to make the abuse stop. So, again, the reporting tool is called MyConnects, and there's also a direct link to their website. It is wwwmyconnectsorg.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for joining us on Hollywood Confessional for Portrait of a Survivor. You can catch us on social media, at fessuphollywood, on Instagram and X. We'll be back again witha special episode about doing right in Hollywood without anybody watching and being rewarded for it.

Speaker 6:

And until then, Go create in peace.

Speaker 1:

The Hollywood Confessional is produced by Megan Dane and Jair Zamora-Thal. Joelle Garfinkel is our co-producer and aj thal is our post-production coordinator and editor. Our cast today amy baclini, taylor brooks, cody vong, special effects provided by zap splat and pixabay. Hollywood confessional is a ninth way media production. Follow us on socials at fess up hollywood.