#25 - From Player to Advocate: Sofia Hiort-Wright on Thriving Beyond the Game

What does it really take for international student-athletes to thrive?

Dr. Sofia Hiort-Wright - a former Swedish national-team tennis player and international tennis student-athlete at VCU, and now VCU’s Deputy Director of Athletics - shares insights on cultural adaptation, mental health, and the changing landscape of college athletics in the NIL era.

In this conversation, listeners will gain insights into:
- Challenges international student-athletes face adapting to new cultures and academics
- The evolving conversation around mental health in college athletics
- Why holistic support systems matter for athlete success
- The impact of NIL, social media, and modern pressures on student-athletes 

We hope you enjoy!

Where to find Sofia:

VCU Bio: https://vcuathletics.com/staff-directory/dr-sofia-hiort-wright/163

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sofia-hiort-wright-ph-d-302348198/

Diversity Lifetime Achievement Award Article: https://annualreport.socialwork.vcu.edu/archive/2022-report/alum-is-making-a-difference-daily/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hello and welcome to the International Student Athlete Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

The podcast where we aim to inspire and help international student athletes navigate their journeys.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Whether you're chasing your dream on a high school or college team, planning your next move, or supporting somebody on their journey, you're in the right place.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Every week we'll bring you real stories, expert tips from professionals in the field, and a little bit of fun to help you navigate life as student athletes abroad.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

We are your hosts, Nikki and Barb. And we are here to guide you through the world of sports, studies, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Let's dive in. Welcome everyone. Today's guest uh is Dr. Sophia Yort Wright. And she's a special guest because she will understand or she understands the international student experience from both sides. Dr. Jurt Wright came to the US from Sweden to compete on the women's tennis team at VCU. And now, more than 20 years later, she serves as the deputy athletic director and senior women's administrator, overseeing the academic success and well-being of VCU student athletes. With her background in social work and a PhD in education, she brings a human-centered approach to college athletics. Doctor, you're right. Welcome and thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for asking me.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Thank you. Is there anything else that you would like to add to the introduction before we dive deeper into all that you do?

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Yeah, no, I think that captured it pretty well. I kind of I'm in charge of really the student athlete experience obviously. So kind of like what falls under that to make sure that our student athletes in general have the best experience that they can have.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

I love that. So I want to kind of dive deeper into a few different topics today with you. But to start off, I definitely want to focus on your journey. You know, coming from Sweden as an international student athlete, you know, you had your own experience, and um so I would like to dive into that first. Um so when you left Sweden to compete at VCU, um if you can kind of dive into your memory and tell us what were some of the things that maybe caught you by surprise or was difficult for you about that um adjustment.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

Yeah, yeah, I think um I had a great experience as a student athlete here. Um, but there was definitely um a big, big culture shock for me. Um, and I had been fortunate enough to play on the Swedish national team. So I had traveled a fair amount, like for I would say almost, yeah, like eight, nine years before I came to the US. So, but I have not had not traveled much, or I had not experienced the US culture much. So mainly I traveled in Europe. So um yeah, it was a definitely like a big transition for me um with everything. I think obviously one of the great things with the US is that that we can um go to school and play a sport, but just that alone is obviously different from many other countries. So the setup itself is different. Um, but I think too, like being uh at the university, uh the language barrier, even though like I thought, you know, coming in my English was pretty good, but when you sit and listen to lectures, you realize quickly that you have a lot to learn. Um, and I think the the strip the structure of the university was was a little bit difficult for me to understand in the beginning, just uh in some ways you're at the university, but they still kind of treated you like you were younger. I think compared to my experience in Sweden, like you they checked your attendance, you had homework, you know, which is kind of different from from the system that we have at home. Um but I think at the time I was very fortunate that um we had our tennis coach was Swedish. I had actually like two um other guys that were on the Swedish national team as well, they were also here. And then we had a couple other Swedish um players, so they really, really made my transition easier. Like they helped me with anything and everything you can think of. So I feel very, very fortunate in in that regard, but it was still definitely like a big transition, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Right. I love that though. I I think it always helps to have at least something familiar in the new environment.

SPEAKER_05 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

That's awesome. Yeah. At which point did you decide you wanted to stay in the US long term and build your career here?

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Um I think it was not until I had worked. Um, so I I I played tennis and then I got my master's in social work here. Um, and I I thought I wanted I always knew I wanted to help people in some way. Like I know that's my purpose in life, to to be in a helping profession and to hopefully make a small difference in people's lives. Um, so I did uh work in in social work for a little bit. I worked with um uh to help homeless people find housing that were um that also had uh struggled with mental illness. Um but then I had actually um somebody that I knew and I I knew at VCU who who served um, you know, had I knew her uh when I was a student athlete. She had an open position and said, you know, I think you'll be really good at it. Like, are you interested in applying? So that's kind of how my VCU journey as an employee started. Um I never actually thought at that time that I would be here 20 years later. Um, but you know, like life happens and and it's VCU has been an amazing um place to work for me. Um not sure that people are familiar, but like VCU is an incredibly diverse institution. Um, I think you know, we are definitely a place where we celebrate diversity, we celebrate the opportunity. Um, so that kind of those values fit well with my own values. Um, so I think after um I also like I loved learning, like I'm a lifelong learner. Um so once I got my PhD in education, um I thought like, oh, you know, this would maybe like make sense to stay a little bit longer. Um at that time too, like I had met my husband, um, you know, and and he's from Trinidad and Tobago, and he definitely um, you know, wanted to stay in the US because of the opportunities. So, you know, we kind of made the decision together that we would stay here for a little bit and see. And then we had two kids, and 20 years later, I'm still here.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Yes, yes. Life happens for sure. But I like that you mentioned that you know, you kind of knew from the beginning that you wanted to help people, and and that's where you navigated your education towards and and then later your work and stuff. So um I love I love seeing how you kind of blend it, blended what you value and what you stand for with what you do now.

unknown 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

Well, I think that's really important to me.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Right, right. Is that something you also help your students with? Kind of realize maybe how they could navigate that.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

I think so, because sometimes I think it's hard to see that when you're like 18, 19, 20 years old, like and even to the point where I think I know I use my social work background and skills every day, but people may not think of that when you like think that you work in athletics, unless you're familiar with like what people do. Um, but I think that sometimes students just need a little bit of help and seeing like, okay, what are my really strong values and how can I find ways um, you know, where I think it's a good fit. I think that you know, sometimes it just takes some exploration too.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Um I know for sure, I think, circle back to that because I wanted to ask you later more about how you actually help students and and what you saw that, you know, what you see in your work every day that that actually works. Um maybe maybe let's dive into more um how you actually use social work. Uh because I know that's something I I personally haven't heard before when I was researching you and what you do. Um, and I also saw that in one of the articles that are about you. I think it was when you were receiving the the award.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Yeah, so uh so tell us a little bit more about you know how you're using your training and the knowledge you learned um during social work, how you use that in your work in athletic department.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Yeah, I think I would say the number one thing I probably think is very important, and sometimes I think people don't take the time to do it, is obviously I my core values are like compassion and kindness. I think those are two values that I try to like display every day, and uh that's kind of how I ground my work in always being compassionate and you know trying to help people, um trying to have kindness for people. Um, and I think another thing that is really important is that um to listen, and that's definitely something in social work, people talked about every day, like being like an active listener and then also meeting people where they're at. So I think sometimes and in you know today's society, people are like you have so much to do, and you almost like people sometimes think of answers instead of actually listening. They like listen a little bit and just think about how should I respond to this question instead of actually like really listening to to what the person is saying or what the student is is feeling or experiencing, and kind of letting letting you know, you almost sit with that thought or feeling for a little bit before you know you kind of like formulate a response. And again, I think I try to formulate my responses again with compassion. I can't a lot of times change things, but um, I think having somebody, I think everyone, all students, but obviously, you know, I work a lot with international students, but all students need somebody to feel that they care for them, you know. And I think they also everyone needs, and I hope everyone has something, somebody that they feel uh believe in them, because I think that goes such a long way. Um again, I I think of course we need to hold students accountable and you know try to push them towards like being better and doing great things, but I think to begin with, if you don't have that kind of like trust and belief and care, I think it's difficult to like move forward. So I would say like I've always tried to um to operate like that in my work with students, and I would say like even with my staff, like I I hope that you know, I kind of as a as a manager, like I try to be to be engaging and to be compassionate and kind of listen. So um yeah, hopefully they feel that way too. So I think that's kind of like my my day-to-day.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Yeah, I love that. Um what what kind of comes to mind with that is you know, what would you maybe advise students, especially let's say international students that might not be, you know, as familiar with the US culture as you talked about. Like it's you might know you might know now with more, let's say, internet, like with internet and more maybe resources, um, you might have a better idea of you know how the how the university life looks like. But from what you were just saying, you know, um I'm curious about what international students coming to the US can actually look for, you know, let's say in uh you know when they get into contact with coaches and when universities, like what are some signs of schools that have that culture of, you know, we are here to help you, like we're here for you, there are resources. You know, are there any tells that international students could look for?

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Yeah, I do think, and again, like everyone, I think everyone hopefully has good intentions and try their best. But I do think like um if they've get a sense of like, and this is maybe hard to do before you get there sometimes. Like you read about things and you try to get a sense, but like kind of like a culture of care beyond like if you're good at your sport, you know, you you truly want somebody to be at a place where people care about you as a person. Um, and I do think in regards to like international students, because I think yes, there's so many students. I'm not saying only international students face this, but they do have, I think, additional pressures like from home because it's like it's different when you travel across the world, like to pursue this. So I think and again, having your family and friends at home, maybe not understanding or knowing everything that you're going through as an international student, that it's also like can be, you know, a little bit added pressure. Um, and then I think like trying to figure everything out uh while at the same time like performing really well athletically, performing well academically, uh, you know, dealing with homesickness or new culture, like it can just be a lot. So I think obviously now like there's a lot of schools that provide great resources, um, but having that extra sense of support, I think is really, really important. Um, and I think again, we try to do little things uh for the student athletes, but I think that hopefully makes a difference. Like whether it's, you know, a lot of a lot of schools now do International Day. I think that's nice when you're international like match, you know, you have where you honor your student athletes. Or um again, we just had um our um Equality and Athletics Week where um we recognized all our international student athletes with trying to find something edible from their home country. Um, and again, we had it open to all our student athletes, but it's one of their favorite events every year. And again, of course, we can't get like a lot of things for everyone, but just find I think like for me, if I knew like somebody tried to find even if it's like a snack from Sweden or something, that would make a difference to me. Like it would make me feel seen or you know, valued. We also have like a little map in our uh one of the lounges, like with where we have like where everyone's from. Like I think doing little things, so I think as an international student athlete, if you can feel that, and again, I know this is uh harder than than what what I'm describing at the moment, but if you can look for those like genuine connections and like genuine like care, I think that goes a long way. Um, and I think too, like we are very fortunate. Um, we have a great relationship with our partners on campus. So again, obviously our international student athletes are one population, they're one population, but we have international students obviously at VC as well. And you know, I could not do what I do without the support from my international office. I mean, again, with all the rules and regulations, and that's another thing I think people, you know, which a lot of people don't think about, which is understandable because if you haven't been in that situation, but just making sure that you follow all the rules and regulations and taking the classes that you need, and you know, with all the paperwork that have to be in order, it's it can be very stressful. So I think again, having um a global office or like uh that is uh engaged, I think that goes a long way as well.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Yeah, yeah. I I need to echo like a few things that you said. I I remember um when I was at my first school in the US at a junior college, uh our athletic director had the initiative of you know finding all of our flags, um, you know, all of the international student athlete flags, and we had them in the gym. And I just remember it just it probably was, you know, like a I guess a little thing, but it still took uh you know some uh some work to find the flags, put them up. And I just remember, you know, every time we had like a home game, uh, and you know, there was the US flag playing uh US um anthem playing, like I would also glance at my flag and it just made me feel seen, like you said. So those things for sure matter. Um and I 100% agree, like it can make a big difference. Um and the second thing you were just saying now that I already forgot. Um you were ending saying something, and I just remember the international office, maybe? Yes, that's right, that's right. That's also something I wanted to to echo because um again, like I think maybe junior colleges are different, but we didn't really have uh a resource like that, and me coming to US, I didn't even know that's what a university should have or might have or have. So uh yeah, I would I would just say that um maybe and and I know we talked about this in other podcast uh episodes as well, that um, you know, as an incoming international student in general, but let's say student athlete now, uh, you know, you can even reach out to those like those offices and start to have a conversation and see you know how they communicate, and and so that could be another like great tell. Um but just even initiating those relationships could be really helpful because those, you know, uh those people will be by your side for the amount of years that you're at the school. So that's definitely um a great thing to point out that the International Student Office will be um a partner.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

Well, and for us, they have quite a few, like they have an international coffee hour again for regular students, and they have like some local tours and they have some like trips that a lot of times like are nominal fee or free for students. So I think those things like again, it's our responsibility to make sure our student athletes know about them. Again, they might not be able to attend all of them, but maybe there's something they can attend. So I think that too, like getting that other connection um to campus, I think is really important.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think also it helps um especially for international student athletes. I know the trend is usually that um you connect with other international student athletes, which could be great, like across sports, you get to know different people, but um, I think especially in the first years, you kind of tend to stay in your own bubble. So I think going to those international student in general events could be also helpful just to get to know other people outside of athletics in general. Love that. Um yeah, so um I think we talked well, we we probably uh started the topic a little bit about uh international student athlete well-being and mental health. And I read some of the articles that were uh either about you or or you you know you were quoted, and I know um that's kind of also what you cater to, like international student athlete and student athlete in general well-being and and mental health, and kind of talking about um seeing the stigma going uh away a little bit. So I wanted to dive deeper into that a little bit. Um, you know, what um like have you seen the stigma actually decreasing, and if so, how and and maybe how are student athletes in general, but let's say international student athletes, um, are they more open to seeking help help with that type of stuff?

SPEAKER_03 20:19

Yeah, I do think over I would say the last five to seven years, maybe I think we definitely have seen a decrease in the stigma, and I think honestly it's thanks to the students, like they're willing to be so much more open about it. Obviously, like we see a lot of people on social media or just in general being more open, which is really nice. I do think we still have a ways to go. You know, we say that we should treat uh mental health similar to like physical health, like if you, you know, have an injury, like it's it's the same type type of thing. And I do think, yeah, that's the goal, but I again I think we have a little bit of ways to go. I do think it's important again to like think about not just international students, but everyone obviously has grew up differently and have different norms and cultures, like what is acceptable and and what's encouraged. So I I do think like again, some people are very kind of used to it and they're like they feel completely comfortable going to talking to somebody while other people may uh have grown up in a culture where it's not. So, you know, I do think again, just like encouraging student athletes to um to to at least be aware of the resources. I think like we can't make people do something, like obviously encourage it as much as possible and again take the like stigma away from it and make it kind of like part of the resources, a part of what we do, you know. Like like because again, I think we do a good job here, uh, and a lot of other schools do too, like to think about the student holistically. Um, so just really. Really, like you can't just focus on athletics or you can't just focus on academics. Like, you really have to focus on the entire uh student and your own well-being. Um, because again, if you're lacking in one area, it's gonna be hard to be like really, you know, good overall. So I think we just encourage that and be positive about it and give different options. I think it's important too. Like now we have been, I think again, a lot of schools have put more um kind of funding behind, you know, mental health services, which is great. Um and then, you know, now there are various providers too that students can um can access online. And there's also um a fair number of new services, like with mental health providers online that um speak different languages, which is also really nice, you know. That again, you might be, I think, at least for me, and I think most people agree with this, like if when you're talking about feelings, it's sometimes easier to do it in your own language, right? Rather than trying to do it in a in a different language. So I think that's also very important to be able to provide different options. So then you're more likely, I think, to take advantage of it if you if it's something like okay, I think I can see myself being comfortable with this. So um again, like, yeah, having you know, I we've had in the last few years a few like student-led initiatives. That's also like I think is very powerful. Because I think then, you know, if we as administrators see that the students think this is really important and want, you know, want more um opportunities, I think that goes a long way as well.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Um I love that a lot that the students are initiating that. Yeah, that's that's great. And and I totally agree. I think um having the option of um being able to access those resources in different languages is huge. I mean um I think to to add something more personal, I think um I come from more of the culture that doesn't really share those things as much. And funny enough, I think um because I went through you know the international student athlete journey in the US, I think I I learned those type of uh well, I don't know, of skills, but I I learned how to open up more in English. So now when I need to open up, I need to open up in English. Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

That's interesting. That's good. Yeah, it's probably because you have those experiences, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Yeah, yeah. So now I'm like, hmm, if I need to talk about my feelings, I feel more comfortable doing that in English. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

But yeah, I I recognize that though this is important to have that option, and I haven't haven't heard about it, but I'm great it's out there and and great that that schools are seeing the need of investing more into that.

SPEAKER_03 24:57

Yeah, and I think too, like we have um, you know, around midterms we try to do like it could be something small, like a mindful exercise, or we could do like coloring or just little things that again that can like take away a little bit of the stress. Again, like obviously there's many things that you can you can um you know try to work on on yourself or like decrease the stresses that you could going through. But I think again, having different options, I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Yeah, 100%. Um another thing I g I think that's tied to this is um I think helping with um helping international student athletes to kind of um well first balance like the pressures they're under of you know performing and and quote making it. Um and you you mentioned that a little bit earlier, you know, the pressures from family and being far away from home and and for sure that's a reality. Um but also I think kind of tied to the to that, uh, you know, looking as international student athlete looking into the future, you know, how to navigate kind of handling um you know the student and athlete part and all the international pressures, and then thinking about, you know, um how am I gonna um transition out of um the student athlete experience? So uh I'm sure you come across you know those thick those cases, but I'm curious, you know, what do you see? Uh what do you think that helps uh kind of student athletes, international student athletes to to get ahead get ahead of the curb and and just be, you know, kind of follow what's what they want in life after college sports.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

Yeah, and I think it even starts with when they get here, because some people have a very uh kind of like strong sense of either like, okay, I want to stay here, or some people say, like, I know I want to go back home. So I think just to, you know, to start with finding like a major that they feel like that they can is universal enough that they can go back to their home countries and be like, okay, I can get a job in in business or psychology, whatever it may be. But I think that to start with, I think, you know, it's important to have those conversations. Again, we have a student athlete development office that they do a great job with, you know, and and our advising staff, just trying to like see what if what you think you want to do like kind of matches with, you know, you know, something that you can consider doing after college and something that you know you're passionate about. Obviously, it's it's easier to be, um, I think to to find success in something that you're really passionate about. Um, but yeah, so that I think to start with, but it is um trying to help them manage those those pressures. Because again, I think it is it is different, you know, it is not knowing, I think can be very stressful too. And we try to, like, in many cases, almost like have two plans. Um, you know, if the student, uh, international student athlete want to try to stay here. I mean, that could obviously look like you could go to graduate school, um, you could utilize this um year of OPT where you can, you know, you have at least one year that you can hopefully get some experience after your degree. Um, and again, some international student athletes obviously look to play professionally, whether it's here or back home. And then obviously the kind of other option is to go back home. But it's really, I think, important to have those conversations. And of course that can change too as they, you know, in the four years. Um, but because it's it's you know, it it is somewhat challenging um to be able to find um a place or an organization, it's not easy to find um work permits anymore. Um I think again, having realistic conversation, again, involving your your campus partners, um, just looking at different options, I think that's very important. Um, and it's almost like you have to develop two plans, depending on what the what the student you know wishes to pursue. But I think I think it's important because before you know it, like you don't want it to be senior year. And and that's another thing I think people in general may not be aware of. Like, I think for a lot of international students, you can't wait until the last minute. Like you have to plan ahead of time, and there's if you're applying for certain things, it's like months in advance. So you've got to make sure, like, again, our in international office, they do a good job with having different webinars. So we try to make sure that our international student athletes attend those well well in advance. Um so they are aware of like, okay, this is the pathway I can take or the pathway I can try to pursue, and when I need to do it, and what implications will it have for my future? Because they might be too like after graduation. Well, then maybe you need to stay here and you can't travel. So there's a lot of other, you know, like aspects of of that process that I think is different from an international student compared to like a domestic student athlete.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Um Yeah, I I love the idea of having multiple plans, uh, because there are just like you just said, some things uh that are um outside of the control, uh outside of your control, and um yeah, whether you like it or not, it's just some things will go differently or might go differently. So I love I love that idea of having like different plans, one, two different plans, and and having them in the back pocket in case plan A doesn't work. So that's really good. I love that. Um do you see um when you work with international student athletes, do you see them kind of taking advantage of um I don't know, let's say I don't want to dive deeper really into NIL. I know that's a little bit complicated topic, but um I know just in general, like uh now with social media and other stuff, like student I think international student athletes have like a good outlet where they can kind of find something else than you know, beyond the student athlete identity. Um have you are you seeing any of those, you know, international student athletes taking advantage of either social media, NIL, or or some other outlet that kind of helps them uh you know channel their their other interests other than you know the academics and and athletics?

SPEAKER_03 31:37

I think we are seeing a little bit of that, and I I think it will increase. I think obviously in the beginning it was difficult, people didn't know what what you were allowed to do and not allowed to do in terms of like if you're here on a on a F1 uh visa, which is a student visa. So I think we're just seeing the beginning of it now. Um and hopefully obviously there'll be more opportunities for international student athletes as well, yeah, similar to the opportunities for domestic students. But I think, yeah, I I think we're just at the beginning of what the possibilities out there.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

True, true. I just I just know I uh um I mean for me it was kind of realizing that also senior year, like uh oh, like you know, there's other things then you know that I could kind of pay attention to. Um but I think you know that was for example this podcast. Um, but um I think it's just important for international student athletes to kind of um I know it's not easy, but I think it's important to look for other things. Um because I know the transition out of college athletics can be hard, especially if you don't continue uh with your sport. And uh I mean I think a lot of student athletes uh in general uh try to stay connected to the sport, but sometimes it's just either not possible for a while or uh the opportunities are just not the same. But I've seen that it usually helps when students have or student athletes have something while they're a student athlete, especially because I think it is a form of like a platform and you are in like a very unique position um socially and you know within uh within the peers and all that. So um I think it's helpful to kind of expand that identity and maybe not realize or realize that um you know there are other things than than sports, but or maybe you know you can realize uh there are other ways you can be involved in sports than just play.

SPEAKER_03 33:37

Yeah, no, I think that's so important. And we talk quite a lot about like identity and like figuring out your identity, uh, and you're more than just being an athlete or a student athlete or international student athlete, like because you have so many identities and like figuring that out before um, you know, again, your senior year where you're like no longer gonna be a student athlete at least. I think that's that's really important. Um, because that could be really hard because for most of us, then that's what you've done like your whole life. Um kind of like one day you're just done. Um, and I think that is a little bit different um in the US too compared to other countries. Because um, I mean that I know at least like in Sweden, there's a lot of people that after college, like they play league tennis, or it's a pretty competitive level. Um, you know, but I think it's a little bit different compared compared to here. So I think um kind of working on that, but working on yourself before you get to your senior year is really important. And I think again, like if you're fortunate enough to be at a school where they have a student athlete development office, we do a lot of like work with like just on on your personal self. Um kind of again, it could be like a values assessment or or vocational assessment, like different things to like help you understand who you are and like who you are, I guess like if you're can gonna be without your sport, you know. I think that's important.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

So yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. I wish uh more schools have those offices, but let's let's hope that's the future. I love it. Um and yeah, talking about um those things, um, I'm curious more about let's say, you know, you kind of uh you know going through um going through let's say in general college athletics as an international student athlete and now uh student athlete and now being on the administrative side, you know, have you um how have you seen that the system's kind of changed or or policies or some type of um you know higher level type of um higher level where decisions are made? Like I'm I'm just curious how have you seen that the system kind of progressed to support student athletes better?

SPEAKER_03 36:05

Well yeah, I think like in general, I think we have like developed so much in supporting the student athlete period, I would say like like the last five to eight years. I I do think it you know it is it is similar to what I mentioned before, it's much more of a holistic perspective. I think think about all the positions that have been added in the last few years, like you have a much more robust, like I mean, you have now nutrition, I mean you at at a lot of schools, you might have a nutritionist, you have, you know, obviously sports performance, you have your athletic trainer, academics, you know, like we have academic coaches, you know, you have again student athlete development. So I think it's again much more holistic. Like a lot of schools, like we have a wellness team that it's truly like looking at for the student athlete well-being from a holistic perspective. So I think the integration of services have changed a lot. Um, and again, for international student athletes, then you add the international piece to make sure that that's you know, um, we're paying attention to that. So I think that's great, you know, because the more we can support uh you as a whole person, I think the better we will all be. And we see the student athletes having a greater experience, and then we will have greater success, I think. Um, and obviously, I don't know the numbers at the top of my head, but I think in general, like we see, you know, when I think when I came, it was a lot of internationals in certain sports, like, but not necessarily across the board. Um, like we see, you know, most teams a lot, it's very common. It's maybe it's probably more common to see international student athletes than not. Uh so I think for me that's you know, that's great. So to see that it's expanded throughout all sports. Um, because I think again, you speak about experiences, like you if if if you're from in-state or out of state, or like when you come together on a team, you're like you'll you'll meet people from across the world and you'll you know, you'll make lifelong friends. I think no matter where you're from or where your your experiences, like having a diverse group of student athletes just increases and enhances your experience, like it makes it richer because we all learn from each other. Yes, I think like I think that's a great thing that we're seeing that it's kind of like we're more more diverse now. So I think that that's really nice.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Um absolutely how now you know uh some of the sports that I can think of from the top of my head that like I know always have international student athletes, you know, as as most of the rosters, like tennis, obviously, and um maybe golf. Um maybe for sure volleyball as well, usually have a lot of them, maybe not most, but a lot. So but I I think um even I've seen like in during my time that usually you have at least few international student athletes across a lot of the teams. So that's that's for sure great to see. And and I I agree. I mean it's uh you do make life for friends, and it's it's amazing to have you know to be to have the opportunity to meet people from all over the place. And I just I hope people take advantage from it and are open-minded to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I love that. Um Yeah, so uh one question that feel free to to answer with your you know, your opening and and just how you see it. But um if you know if there would be you know something that you would still even even though you were saying, you know, you you see those things kind of uh universities taking care of um student athletes more holistically, um, is there something that you kind of still see gaps in when it comes to let's say onboarding international student athletes?

SPEAKER_03 40:13

Oh yeah, I think again, I I think there's so many things that, and again, I think the first thing is like speak to your international student athletes. Like even if um it's after like a year, like what do you wish that we had done differently when you came here? I think that's again, they'll tell you, and they are the best source, obviously, to like let you know what what what you're missing. Um, but I think it's little things that um in terms of like uh the academic culture, like how to speak to professors, you know, every culture is so different, just little things, how to communicate. Um, so I think those things in part of the onboarding process. Um, but this is international students, athletes, and general student athletes. I think when you first come, I'm sure you remember in the summer, like you have all the beginning of the year meetings, like you have all these orientations and kickoffs, and like there's so much information. And I know that like especially for international student athletes, then you add like all the you know things they have to remember, you know, being on top of in terms with their the papers and making sure they do their check-ins and everything. So I think it's a lot that we throw at them in the beginning, but then necessarily maybe we don't follow up as well as us as we should, because I think the orientation should be like an ongoing process. And maybe we should, yeah, of course, there's some things that we have to do in the summer, but maybe we should wait with some things and and talk about it in October or November or like at the end of the first year, you know. Like, I I think having a continued conversation is really important, and I think in general, sometimes we'd kind of like throw things at everyone, like and realistically, again, when everything is new, you're hearing things in a different language, you're just trying to like make it through the day, it's super overwhelming. So, like, you know, I'm like, we're not we can't expect that they're gonna remember half of this, you know. So I think again, just like coming back and checking in, and um I um spoke with a few of our uh international student athletes in the fall. I was doing an another um presentation, and and kind of the one main thing that came across is like you know, just having somebody to check in on you like makes such such a big difference. But again, I I think um yes, I think that that is probably a gap that we do maybe a little bit too much in the beginning and then not continued. Um because again, like I mean, there's so many things, but like holidays, like the first holiday, like when maybe if if you're not in season, or if you are in season, but if you're not in season, I mean I still remember, you know, at that time, like you knew the international students, we were the only ones left on campus, you know, like that's not that can be hard, you know. So, and I think a lot of times now, like schools and teams do a very good job of making sure that international student athletes have somebody that they can go to or something to do. But like those times, like there's a lot of times you feel homesick and like feeling alone and so far away from home, that's really really difficult and can be very overwhelming. So I think again, just yeah, I think that's probably one of the gaps that I think um that we do too much in the beginning and then not the continuation.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

I love that reflection. I think and and um strangely or or funny enough, um, we actually talked about this again in previous episode, um, that you know, we see this as like a gap or or something that, you know, would be would be nice to see change because as you said, I mean it is overwhelming in general and then you know, you add all these layers. So I I like the idea. I can I can imagine and I can see it from the let's say administrative perspective that uh you know once the year kind of starts rolling like there is a lot of things going on and it's just hard to keep up and hard to get people together. Maybe in, you know, those settings and everybody has season a different time. So I understand it from the department's perspective, let's say, but uh it for sure would be nice to to follow up it like you said and kind of make sure that uh you know they maybe remind them of some some things or just section it out into smaller, smaller things to to remind them of. Yeah, really good.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Yeah, even having a monthly check-in, or like if people want to show up, they can. If you want to just come and chat for a few minutes, or if you have a question, I think that would be helpful, you know.

SPEAKER_02 44:50

Right, yeah, absolutely. Like providing that space for the conversation to happen. I like that. Yeah, um, I know we we talked a little bit about NIL and um please feel feel free to talk, you know, as much as you feel comfortable. Uh but um what is kind of your opinion about um in general NIL and kind of let's say the um you know college sports becoming a little bit more professional in this in this sense. You know, how do you see that impacting student athletes in general?

SPEAKER_03 45:25

Yeah, I think obviously the revenue sharing practice is is changing a lot. I think obviously like it's been talked about for so many years, and then it felt like kind of like boom, it happened overnight. So, you know, again, there's positives, and I think there's things that need to be improved. Um I think most people agree with that um the student athletes they do an amazing job and they um bring in a lot of um revenue for for university. So I think they're I'm not against um student athletes getting compensated. Uh I do think there there uh can be a little bit more structure around it. I think again, it's just the beginning, so I'm sure it will be. Um but I do think a lot of people in um I think on the student side of administration is like I think we need to be mindful and and find ways to still engage with obviously like student athletes and and coaches and just making sure that uh prioritizing again the overall um development of the student athletes is still at the forefront and still very important. Because again, I personally feel like all the all the resources and programming that we have for our student athletes, international and domestic, they are very helpful no matter if you, you know, turn pro or if you're going to grad school or do do um you know something else after get a job. Um, because again, I think so I think that discussion will continue too. Like, how can we ensure that we're we're on the same page with that? I think that that's something that I see is gonna continue like be a conversation in in college athletics moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

I like that. I like that. Um and probably just to kind of start wrapping things up, um what are you kind of optimistic about uh in the future of college athletics? What do you see as a good thing coming?

SPEAKER_03 47:29

I still think, I mean, again, there's like no no perfect place or perfect situation, but I still think like like kind of how I started, it is such a unique opportunity. Um now obviously we're talking about international student athletes, but in general, it's a unique opportunity to come and like be on a team and to be able to combine athletics and academics. I mean, it's not many countries that do it the way it's provided in the US or the way it's structured. So I think it's like it's an amazing opportunity that a lot of times changes people's lives for the better, of course. So I think I'm still excited about that. I think like we're still um making it a positive impact. Uh, and I think controlling what you can control, like, you know, you want to develop your student athletes to the best of your ability. Um, and that's something that I continue to be excited about every day. I think like, again, we're very fortunate to be able to impact a student athlete experience. And like it's such a crucial time in your life, too. You know, you develop so much as a as a young adult. So I think, you know, hopefully you want people to look back and say, like, that was a like a great experience in my life. Um, so I think even with all these changes, I think that is again like kind of the core um of like what we should be focused on, like again, providing a great experience. Um, and again, changing people's lives. And hopefully, our student athletes, you know, it's nice to hope hopefully play a small part in like you make better decisions when you left here than compared to when you came and you've developed a little bit as a person, like yeah, you know, you had some great experiences. Yeah, it's not perfect every day, it's not easy, but overall, like you grow as a person, and I think that's really, really meaningful that I'm still very excited about.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

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SPEAKER_02 49:41

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SPEAKER_00 49:50

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