Sarah: Hi guys, welcome back to Previa Alliance. This is Sarah. 

Whitney: And Whitney. 

Sarah: And once again, we're here to support you guys through your pregnancy and postpartum journey and give you all the details that we wish we would've had going through it ourselves.

Whitney: Yes, absolutely.

Sarah: So, Whitney. Today let's talk about therapy.

Whitney: Okay. So obviously I'm a big advocate of therapy. I am a therapist myself and I do have a niche as far as like maternal mental health therapy. That's really where my training has come from. I worked in a labor and delivery setting for nine years total, between two different hospitals therapy is you just need to know this mom. It is non-judgmental, judgment free zone, and it's there to help you navigate what you're experiencing. Everybody at some point in time experiences, some form of anxiety, depression, potentially some OCD, intrusive thoughts, things like that. So, therapy is there not only to kind of normalize what you're experiencing, but helping you get the tools that you need to progress through that and to be successful and to thrive when you're done with that. 
 
So just know that therapy is going to be a place where you should feel comfortable, and you should feel welcome there. If at any point in time, you're meeting with a therapist and you feel like it's not a good fit, or you feel like they're shaming you, or you just feel like they don't really get where you're coming from. You're allowed to choose a different therapist. That is not a bad thing. I tell all of my clients, if you don't feel like this is a good fit, that is perfectly fine for you to find somebody that is a good fit for you. 

So just know as a therapist, we're not going to take that personal. We don't feel like you're upset with us or angry with us. We want you to get the help that is the best fit for you. So just know when I do see a mama for therapy, regardless of where she's at timeline wise in her postpartum journey, we talk about what she's experiencing. We equip you with those coping skills and those tools that you need. And if we need to dig a little bit deeper into your life history, we can do that. But ultimately, I want to get you outta crisis mode. That is my initial goal is getting you out of crisis mode, getting you to a point where you feel like you can function on a daily basis. And then if we need to dig deeper, we'll dig deeper.

Sarah: You know, I think one thing with my personal experience was, is a little bit of my history. I never went to a therapist before I had postpartum depression and I was in thick postpartum depression. And my journey would kind of help inspired previa Alliances. I had to call for two weeks in a row to find a therapist. 

Whitney: I Believe it.

Sarah: Insurance if they specialize in postpartum depression. Nothing against a male provider. But I wanted a mom and a woman who was, would get it.

Whitney: Oh, absolutely.

Sarah: And that's part of why we want to do Previa is we connect you to the therapist because I felt like, it was everything I could do to function on a day to day that struggled to even find a therapist that was so defeating.

Whitney: Oh, for sure.

Sarah: And so, I wanted to make sure women didn't feel that struggle cause that's hard.

Whitney: It is. It's very hard. And again, there's nothing wrong with a male therapist or anything or a male provider. My OB is a male and I'm very comfortable with him. But at the same time, when you're talking about therapy, when we're talking about the thick of postpartum, then you know what? We do want a mom. We do want someone that has been there that has a level of empathy that a male provider, honestly, just isn't going to have, not that dad can't experience postpartum depression, anxiety. Because they can, but literally they can empathize on that physical level. It's just not there. And that's not a bad thing or a wrong thing on their part. It just is what it is. 

But as far as finding a therapist, it's so hard to find someone that does specialize in maternal mental health or in grief, if you experience a child loss at any point in time in your pregnancy or even post-delivery. And so, it's really hard to navigate that. And then you have insurance that can stop you. And even if someone offers a cash pay rate or sliding scale, that's still money coming out of your pocket. Especially if you're on unpaid maternity leave, you're paying for diapers, wipes, potentially formula, Bottles, pediatrician appointments. You have all of this money coming out, most likely, not much coming in. So why would you think that you could do a copay? Or, you know, if someone does a cash pay write off, you know, $50 a session, that's still $50. 

Sarah: That is a lot of money.

Whitney: That's a lot of money, you know, that's at least one large can of [04:50 inaduible].

Sarah: Exactly.

Whitney: And when you think about how much babies eat and how frequently they eat, you're like that $50 could go to some formula or, you know, diapers or whatever. It could go to a physical, tangible need. And you feel like that need is greater than yours. Cause we're moms. We're always going to put our babies first, but I'm also here to tell you you're allowed to prioritize your mental health.

Sarah: Yes. Healthy mom and healthy baby.

Whitney: Yes. You are allowed, I'm giving you permission to prioritize yourself. That is not a bad thing. It is not selfish. Throw the mom guilt out on that. You're allowed to seek help.

Sarah: Exactly. I'll give you a little bit with my therapy journey. It's just, I was suicidal with my postpartum depression and when I was afraid to go and be honest, but that big step was life changing.

Whitney: Oh, for sure. And the first step is the hardest. It's really hard to call and make that appointment. It's hard to show up, whether it's virtually or in office, it's hard to do those things, but once you do it, it gets easier.

Sarah: It felt like a million was off my shoulder. To have someone listen to understand, do not judge me. I felt like I was going to be judged. I was afraid they were going to take my child from me. I was afraid of what my friends and family would think about me saying I'm going to a therapist. There's this. I feel like there's this old school thought about therapy.

Whitney: Yes. And unfortunately, I feel like maybe our generation and the generation after us were really trying to destigmatize seeking treatment for mental illness. Whereas, you know, previous generations, it was one of those, there was such a negative connotation to it. A lot of times it was viewed if you go to therapy, it's because you're court ordered. So obviously negative there, or you must be a war veteran and you're struggling with PTSD. So again, it has to be this very extreme, severe situation for you to seek out that help when that's not the case. I mean, yes therapists are here to help in those situations, but that's not all we're equipped for. We're equipped for honestly, as everyday People who deal with really hard things in life. 

And life is hard on everybody. Nobody has a perfect life. Don't let social media lie to you. Nobody has it all together. Nobody's life is perfect. Nobody goes without struggles. And so, we are allowed to seek help to process those events.

Sarah: Well, so with my first will, it was a traumatic birth. A traumatic C-section. I was awake until, you know, and heard and see which we'll talk about then in a different episode two of just traumatic births. But I could not get out of my mind reliving the situation. And I had never heard of EMDR therapy. You know, cognitive behavioral therapy to me was a new concept as well. And I'd started to learn all these benefits of therapy. I slept better. I was a better mom. I was a better spouse. I was a better friend. 

Whitney: Yeah, absolutely.

Sarah: I could handle being cut off in traffic better. 

Whitney: Oh yeah.

Sarah: I mean the benefits were crazy and there's recently a study out that therapy for pregnancy and postpartum anxiety, depression is just as great as a typical antidepressant, which there's nothing wrong if you need meds. 

Whitney: Not at all

Sarah: It's just we're I was learning that prevention, early intervention. And you're also equipping moms to do better.

Whitney: Absolutely. Well, and let's not dismiss the hormonal shift that we go through postpartum. You can have the most magical delivery. Everything goes perfect, baby Doesn't go to NICU. All the things are great. We still go through a hormonal shift.

Sarah: It's the greatest hormonal shift a human experience. We, progesterone can make some people happy, goody through pregnancy. That drops as soon as the placenta's gone. Bam! 

Whitney: I mean, we're talking it crashes and that is why more often than not you're going to hear moms that struggle with postpartum mental illness as opposed to perinatal. Not saying perinatal doesn't exist. Postpartum, it tends to be more common because in pregnancy, your progesterone kind of slowly builds up, so it's not a shock to our system. Whereas postpartum, like you said, that placenta gets delivered that progesterone crashes on us.

Sarah: And I'm a nurse. I did not know that. You know, you had heard that this is why, that if you break it down to the hormone effects and what we're experienced, and our ovaries take a while to kick back in. Oh yeah. That gives us kind of balancing hormones here.

Whitney: Well, and let's think about it too. Our body is focusing on recovering. Right. Then you're also focusing on having to lactate. Because whether you choose to breast food, formula, feed, pump, whatever combination you choose, your body still tries to lactate. It tries to produce. So, there's a hormone shift right there and then sleep deprivation.

Sarah: Oh my gosh. That will be a whole episode of us talking about why it's used for interrogation with Terrorists. But moms are supposed to just deal with it.

Whitney: Yeah. Push through. Deal with it. So, moms, you have to understand there's multiple factors going on multiple factors going on and you're not at fault for those things.

Sarah: No, those we are not responsible for those fillings. We don't make those fillings. We can't control hormones. So long story short, therapy we love. We want you guys to be open, we're hoping that our digital library will equip Yes. We will make it very normalized in these terms, prepare you. We're going to give you awesome techniques.

Whitney: Oh yeah.

Sarah: Tricks of the trade that I’ve learned that Whitney is an expert in telling us about that's going to you, yeah. So, we're here, we're here for you, but we want to make sure we k now that that you know, therapy. We think everybody can benefit from. Oh, a hundred as a therapist. I have a therapist. 2: Because life is hard and you know, we won't go into details, but Sarah can verify the past two months of my life have been a flipping roller coaster.

Sarah: Constant.

Whitney: And so, I mean, truly, we've tried to meet up at least three times before today and I'm like, Sarah such and such came up. Yep. I've got a bail, or my child is sick or can't I met an appointment with my therapist and I'm like, I'm overwhelmed. And I just need to be able to process this with somebody that's not in my family. Not that it's wrong to go to your family.

Sarah: However, so important. 

Whitney: I needed someone who was objective.

Sarah: Safe space,

Whitney: Safe space. They didn't have a bias. They were there just to be that outside person to say, well, what about this? Right? And I'm like, oh, I hadn't thought about it like that. We're there to give you that other perspective. And honestly, again, as moms, especially when we're sleep deprived, we're not going to think of all these different solutions.

Sarah: It's you, you can't look past maybe the next minute.

Whitney: Oh, for sure.

Sarah: Especially in those newborn days.

Whitney: Oh my gosh. If it's three in the morning and your child's been crying for two hours, you're just thinking, please go to sleep. Yeah.

Sarah: It's, it's hard.

Whitney: It's so hard. And also, your feelings are not bad.

Sarah: No. 

Whitney: Your feelings are not bad. You are allowed to feel sad. You're allowed to feel angry. You're allowed to feel frustrated. You're allowed to feel happy. Your feelings are non-oral, they're neither good, nor bad. They can feel unpleasant or pleasant, but your feelings in and of themselves are not good or bad. You're allowed to feel your feelings and your feelings are valid. Yes. What you do with them can be good or bad. You know, if you're angry at someone and you haul off and punch them well, that was not a good choice. But you're allowed to feel that anger, if you need to feel that anger, that's not a bad thing to do.

Sarah: That is What I tell my three-year-old all the time. You know, you can be mad, is what we do when we're mad. Yes. But we're going to the, but I have to teach them and that is what a therapist had to teach me is when I felt these strong feelings, how do I get myself off that ledge? Yep. How do I maybe stop those negative thoughts? how do I set boundaries for myself?

Whitney: And that's hard, especially again, when you're in the thick of the newborn stage, or if you have multiple kids and sickness hits your house and one of your kids isn't sleeping and the other one still needs you and all those kinds of things, you're going to be exhausted. You're going to be just at your Wits end. That's okay. You didn't do anything wrong.

Sarah: No. And I think therapy also is just one of those toolboxes of life that I think as you evolve and grow, I'm sure you see your clients. Yeah. And you see how they cope or what they go back to and brings up things that maybe we didn't even recognize about ourselves. That makes sense Why I do X. 

Sarah: And then I have this bad habit of looking at my friends and family and going, oh, that's why they do that. They need this. Totally different story for a different day. 

Whitney: Totally Diagnosing over there.

Sarah: Probably should stay in the lane on that one. But long story short, we just want you guys to know Previa here to connect you to therapists who are safe spaces.

Whitney: Absolutely.

Sarah: That get it. Not going to judge you. It's going to help you.

Whitney: Judgment, free zone.

Sarah: So, we thank you again for spending time with us, opening up for us. And we'll talk to you guys next time.