Previa Alliance Podcast
There are few experiences as universal to human existence as pregnancy and childbirth, and yet its most difficult parts — perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs) — are still dealt with in the shadows, shrouded in stigma. The fact is 1 in 5 new and expecting birthing people will experience a PMAD, yet among those who do many are afraid to talk about it, some are not even aware they’re experiencing one, and others don’t know where to turn for help. The fact is, when someone suffers from a maternal mental health disorder it affects not only them, their babies, partners, and families - it impacts our communities.
In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Sarah Parkhurst and Whitney Gay are giving air to a vastly untapped topic by creating a space for their guests — including survivors of PMADs and healthcare professionals in maternal mental health — to share their experiences and expertise openly. And in doing so, Sarah and Whitney make it easy to dig deep and get real about the facts of perinatal mental health, fostering discussions about the raw realities of motherhood. Not only will Previa Alliance Podcast listeners walk away from each episode with a sense of belonging, they’ll also be armed with evidence-based tools for healing, coping mechanisms, and the language to identify the signs and symptoms of PMADs — the necessary first steps in a path to treatment. The Previa Alliance Podcast series is intended for anyone considering pregnancy, currently pregnant, and postpartum as well as the families and communities who support them.
Sarah Parkhurst
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; Founder & CEO of Previa Alliance
A postpartum depression survivor and mom to two boys, Sarah is on a mission to destigmatize the experiences of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs), and to educate the world on the complex reality of being a mom. Sarah has been working tirelessly to bring to light the experiences of women who have not only suffered a maternal mental health crisis but who have survived it and rebuilt their lives. By empowering women to share their own experiences, by sharing expert advice and trusted resources, and by advocating for health care providers and employers to provide support for these women and their families, Sarah believes as a society we can minimize the impact of the current maternal mental health crisis, while staving off future ones.
Whitney Gay
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; licensed clinician and therapist
For the past ten years, Whitney has been committed to helping women heal from the trauma of a postpartum mental health crisis as well as process the grief of a miscarriage or the loss of a baby. She believes that the power of compassion paired with developing critical coping skills helps moms to heal, rebuild, and eventually thrive. In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Whitney not only shares her professional expertise, but also her own personal experiences of motherhood and recovery from grief.
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Previa Alliance Podcast
Previa Playback: What is Postpartum Psychosis?
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The final episode we discuss during Maternal Mental health month is one that is a true medical emergency, postpartum psychosis. This episode comes with a trigger warning as this condition, which is rare, is tough to discuss and understand. Our hope for this episode is that you gain knowledge about this little-talked about condition and know to get help.
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Keep the questions coming by sending them to info@previaalliance.com or DM us on Instagram!
Replay Month And Welcome Back
SPEAKER_00Hey guys, this is Sarah with the Preview Alliance podcast. This month we are replaying our most downloaded episodes. These episodes are the ones that have resonated the most with you guys. So if you're a longtime listener, this is a great refresher and share this with a friend who may be new. If you're new, welcome and we hope that these episodes are impactful to you like it has been for others. Thank you for being with us and stay tuned.
Trigger Warning And Listening Guidance
SPEAKER_00Hey guys, it is Sarah and Whitney, and we are just here before our next episode to give you guys a trigger warning.
SPEAKER_01Yes, this episode is going to be talking about postpartum psychosis and all of its details, and we're going to be talking about the risk factors for it. We're going to be talking about the treatments that you need to do for it. It is a very heavy episode, so we just wanted to caution you guys ahead of time that we are going to be talking about those things, not as a way to deter you from the episode, but just so you can kind of do some mental preparation before you listen to it.
SPEAKER_00We do speak of um incidences of psychoses where it describes what could be disturbing to you and just check in with yourself, like Whitney said. Um we don't advise if you guys are listening this in front of um children. Yeah, I agree. To um this is something just for educational purposes of an adult.
SPEAKER_01Because also thoughts of self-harm are discussed in this episode in more direct language. Uh-huh. Um, so just be aware of those things. We just wanted to put a trigger warning out there for you guys.
SPEAKER_00Again, this is here to educate, and this is here to not scare, prevent, but we're doing our due diligence here and always let you know before we talk about these heavy things. That's right. Okay, guys, stay tuned. Hey
What Postpartum Psychosis Means
SPEAKER_00guys, welcome back to Preveal Hands Podcast. This is Sarah and Whitney. All right, guys. So we're going to close out this month with um uh postpartum psychoses. And let's preference this episode that this is one that is a true medical emergency. It is.
SPEAKER_01It is rare. I'm very rare.
SPEAKER_00Um, but it's something that we need to definitely make you aware of and your friends and family need to be aware of, and we need to know what to do. So let's start with what is it?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so postpartum psychoses is when a mom who is, I'm gonna say maybe about two or three weeks postpartum is when it onsets. It is not likely to onset later on in your postpartum journey. So it's usually it's pretty immediate. Okay. I would say within the first two months.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01And I feel like two months is pretty generous.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so it can even, I would say probably first two weeks.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, you're not as likely to see it in the hospital setting.
SPEAKER_00Probably when you get right home.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I would say probably maybe postpartum day four, up until I would say, again, I'll give it up to eight weeks, even though I feel like that's pretty generous. Okay. So I would say that if you are six months or more postpartum, you're probably not going to experience this. Definitely nine months and more postpartum, you're not going to deal with postpartum psychosis. We're looking at a different diagnosis.
SPEAKER_00So this is not like postpartum depression anxiety, where it can occur up to a year after childbirth. This is a more think of fresh newborn period. Yes. Probably even before, honestly, the baby turns one month old.
SPEAKER_01Um, I would agree with that.
SPEAKER_00And we do know specifically with this main factors bipolar, schizophren, schizoaffective disorder, they have higher risk of this. Um, but it still can happen to anybody without any risk factors. And I know I I know someone who personally experienced this, and um I've heard several OBs I've worked with speak of this. And so, yes, it is rare, but if you've experienced it once or heard someone like talk about it, it's it's
Hallucinations Paranoia And Baby Safety
SPEAKER_00gonna stick with you. Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_01Um, so when someone experiences postpartum psychosis, they experience thoughts of I should harm my baby, not that they're scared of it. Okay, different story there. That they should harm their baby in a certain way because they are being told to do that, either by radio, television, God, Jesus, a higher being, a higher deity. They are being sent these messages that they are supposed to kill their baby because their baby is out to get them, their baby is going to harm them. There is a paranoia at play here.
SPEAKER_00So we are having auditory hallucinations, or in even visual hallucinations, like where you see things and hear things that are not there, and they're telling you to do things. Or I know a story was that the baby to this mob was an alien, and that she was being told to kill the alien, and she was okay with that because it was an alien alien, not her child. And you may be like, what? That is wild, but it was truly this mob was not herself. This was a true medical emergency.
SPEAKER_01So when we say psychosis, someone is not in their right mind. Correct. Okay, so this is more severe than postpartum anxiety, depression, OCD, rage. Anything that falls into that maternal mental illness umbrella, this is going to be more severe. This is, we need to be at an emergency department stat. They will separate baby from mom, and I don't say that to scare you. It is for the protection of the mom and the baby. It is not permanent. No. Hear me saying that it would not be permanent, but we need to get mom stabilized on some medicine. Uh-huh. Medicine is going to be your first route of treatment. And the reason for that, we have a chemical imbalance happening in the brain.
SPEAKER_00This is not their causing this. This is not something they can control. Correct. This is not something that is going to go away. And this is something, just like you would treat a heart attack, you call 911, you go to the ER, you do the same thing for this mom and this baby. Um, and it's she cannot control it. No. And it will not stop. So that is this is why you have to recognize it early on. And, you know, paranoia is a huge thing.
SPEAKER_01It is, because you think that the baby is out to get you, or that it is an enemy of some sort. I actually um have heard of someone thinking that their baby was the devil.
SPEAKER_00I've heard that, and I think there's a lot, so if you're thinking religious context of God, a deity, um, Satan speaking, we're hearing from voices being commanded upon us, or my baby is needs to be in heaven.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So let's take
Intrusive Thoughts Versus Psychosis
SPEAKER_01a little timeout-ish and do a discussion of what is the difference between an intrusive thought and a psychosis thought. Because they are not the same. So again, intrusive thoughts, they come from a place of protection. Okay. You're having that thought of I don't want to fall down the stairs with my baby. Right. Or when we're dealing with postpartum depression and we think my baby deserves better than me. Right. Okay. Right. So that being said, again, we think we want good for the baby ultimately, right? Right, yeah. That is our motivation with those things, even though they can be very challenging. That is our motivation with that. When we're talking about a psychosis, it is one of those where you think the baby is not a baby. It is definitely not your baby. Again, you think that it is a weird creature. You are having these voices in your head. So auditory hallucinations, not your own thinking of an intrusive thought. You can audibly hear these voices saying, I need you to kill the this because it's out to get you, because it's going to harm you.
SPEAKER_00Or see something saying it or doing it. And so it's command. So just think like you're under command.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So, like you can hear us audibly telling you these things. That is what it's like to have an auditory hallucination. An intrusive thought is your own thinking. Yeah.
Risk Factors Sleep And Sudden Energy
SPEAKER_00And I've s I remember hearing this person describe their friend, and they're talking about the energy levels that she had, like extreme burst of energy.
SPEAKER_01So that is where bipolar kind of plays a role in this being a higher risk factor, as you think about the manic phase of someone in bipolar. Because when someone is in the manic phase of bipolar, they can get two or three hours of sleep a night and feel great. They are not tired, they are not exhausted, they thrive in it. They're cleaning their house at two o'clock in the morning, which, hey, come on over to my place. I'll let you clean. I'm not against that. I am not above that. I'm here for it. But I will say you have those people that thrive in that manic stage on very, very little sleep. Same thing with psychosis.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We have this burst of energy where all of a sudden we're getting all the things done, and it's not a rapid mom clean. No. Okay, those are two different things. Because we all know as moms, we try to maximize baby's nap time. Uh-huh. So we do try to rush and get a bunch of things done. This is different. This is like you are scrubbing your baseboards all of a sudden.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01When that wasn't a priority 10 minutes ago.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And here's another part of that psychosis. We're going to have very rapid mood swings. Now, this is different than bipolar because bipolar is cyclical in nature. So you're not going to see 20 mood changes in a day.
SPEAKER_00But this one you will.
SPEAKER_01This you're going to, and it's all over the place. It's going to be, I have this burst of energy. Let me go do something. And then we're sobbing and then we're happy. And it's a weird type of happy. It's not like a, oh, thank you for telling me that. I'm happy now. Or like, hey, you comforted me. I feel a little bit better. It is this weird, almost euphoric happy. Right. It's different.
SPEAKER_00It's it's going to be, um, and I I keep going back to just, and I've read about people who are saying, this is what my wife experienced, this is what my sister experienced, and they're like, they were telling them this is not like you. Yeah. And um, there is such a distrust that the psychoses put on them that then they think that the people, their loved ones, they can't trust, they're out to get them.
SPEAKER_01Um paranoia is a big deal with psychosis.
SPEAKER_00And or they said that they felt like they that they saw this person feel like I understand everything that's going on in my life now. I like they had this clarity of this is why I'm on the street. Again, kind of euphoric. Uh-huh. And so it was very much just like everything made sense that never had made sense, the paranoia, the um auditory and visual hallucinations, the commands.
SPEAKER_01And to piggyback off something you said earlier, it's almost like they have that spiritual awakening in a sense.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01And that they were destined to do this, they were purposed to do this, and it's okay because God, Jesus, a higher deity, a higher power, said, do this. It's okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh. And it could be like you're listening on music and you hear those voices. Or I remember, um, I forget her name. She did a TED talk about it, and she said the ceiling fan would command her at night and was commanding her to burn down the house with her to for it because the child didn't need to be on um the planet anymore. And I wish I could remember that TED talk. If I remember, I'll link it. But it was her saying that she experienced it and she got help, and clearly now she's given TED Talks, right? So, like she's an advocate, she's recovered. But I think what part of it is is in the beginning of it, just like anything, they are like scared to death. Oh, yes. What is happening to them?
SPEAKER_01Well, and that's fair because if you've never experienced mental illness at all, and all of a sudden we have this sudden onset of psychosis.
SPEAKER_00And I'm hearing voices and I'm seeing things.
SPEAKER_01What is going on? And you admittedly, a lot of people would think, okay, but maybe I do just need some sleep. Yeah because again, sleep deprivation can make things so much worse for us.
SPEAKER_00100%.
SPEAKER_01So you think, okay, let me just go get some sleep. And you get that sleep and it's still happening, and you're like, oh my God, what is wrong with me? What is wrong with me? And again, we do have that fear of our children being taken from us.
ER Care Separation And CPS Fears
SPEAKER_01Let me say with postpartum psychosis, when you go to the ER, they will separate you and baby in the immediate. I'm just going to be honest. And that is for the safety of everybody. Now, does that mean that CPS or DHR, whomever that is in your state, is going to permanently remove the baby from you? Absolutely not. Chances are what they will do is have a safety plan put in place. They need to ensure that mom is regularly, consistently taking her medications, that she is going to therapy, and they're going to be involved in your life for a few months, which means they're going to be doing some home visits. Yeah. That's okay. That's fine. That is perfectly fine. It is there for your protection. I'm one of those people I loved doing family preservation services when I was a baby social worker. Yeah. Because the whole goal is to keep the family together. And that is what DHR or CPS would want to do is to keep y'all together. But they need to make sure that we actually see recovery taking place to keep you and your baby safe and the rest of your family. Because, and I could be misspeaking, but years ago, there was a mom that buckled her four kids in the car, drove them in the lake. Like she put like a um a cinder block or a brick on the gas pedal, drove the car into like a lake or river, and she was out there and watched it.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01And that was postpartum psychosis.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that I mean, and you and this is the stories that you hear in the news, and you hear that and you're like, I can never imagine.
SPEAKER_01And well, because you've never experienced postpsychosis, thank goodness.
SPEAKER_00And this is not to say postpartum psychosis is the only reason people do no un unimaginable, unspeakable things, but this is something that is unique to postpartum.
SPEAKER_01But now that I'm a therapist and now that I have this clinical knowledge, I look back at that story and I think, I wonder if that was postpartum psychosis. Yeah. Because I want to say one of the kids was a very, very young child.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so what if? Now, does that mean that it was right for her to do that? Absolutely not. No. However, had she gotten help and gotten treatment, if the signs had been picked up on, would those children still be here?
SPEAKER_00Yes. And that's and that's something. So if you are seeing this and your mom friends and your sister and your family and your wife, whoever that just had this baby, okay, we're talking immediate postpartum. I am always the person that says, I would rather ask, I would rather seek than never do it. And that's and that is if you are concerned about someone, and then you speak up, talk to them, and if they confide in you this, yeah, you need to take them to the ER.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And you need to make sure them and the baby are safe, and that is off like like Rennie said, separating them in that time.
SPEAKER_01And so moms that are listening to this, it may feel uncomfortable to do this, but share this episode with your immediate support system so they have the knowledge. Because when you are in the depths of that psychosis, how can you advocate?
SPEAKER_00You can't.
SPEAKER_01Well, because again, your thought process is not normal. You may not realize that you're in a psychosis because in that moment you believe it to be the truth and to be reality.
SPEAKER_00Or you think that they're out to get you because it's already taking over so much of the paranoia.
SPEAKER_01Correct. So, as uncomfortable as it may seem, share this podcast episode with your immediate support system so that they can be aware of these symptoms, so that they can be on the lookout for these things. And just because you're sharing this episode or listening to this episode is not an inevitable that you will deal with psychosis, but it's being prepared.
SPEAKER_00I guess what? Like, I know it's uncomfortable, but like what would you not rather deal with this uncomfortable listener right now than what would happen and does happen when psychosis is not talked about, it's not prepared for, it's not awareness. Yes. So, like with anything, we have to be okay with uncomfortable conversations.
SPEAKER_01And again, that's kind of what we do here at Previa is we have these uncomfortable conversations. We shine a light on this stuff, not to force awkwardness or uncomfortableness on people, but to raise that awareness and say it's okay to speak
Treatment Recovery And Sharing With Support
SPEAKER_01up.
SPEAKER_00Because we want to save mom's life, we want to save babies' life. That's right. And we want to say we want to again, post-prime psychosis is recovered 100% of the time, as long as it is treatment. Intervention. Intervention and treatment. So this is not something that I mean, I think it's one of those things that it's quicker, like recognize and treated instantly, like some of our post-prim depression anxiety stuff where you have to constantly like fight for therapy or fight for intervention or something to recognize this is something that medical professionals know they have to act immediately.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And that's why I say medicine is going to be your first intervention because we've got to get mood stabilizers on board. We've got to get some medicines on board. So you could be looking at staying at the hospital for a few days, not to scare anybody, but be prepared. It's probably not going to be an in and out ER visit.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01And I don't say that to scare you, I say that to prepare you, that they're going to be working with medications. It is trial and error with medications. Yeah. But that's not saying that you couldn't potentially have a visitation with your baby during that time. Just like what I had experienced in the hospital where we had a mom who had suicidal ideations, had a gun available to her, had a plan, told us what she was going to do when she left the hospital. Well, you know what? We're going to go take baby to the well baby nursery while you're here in the ER. We're going to let them get you stabilized. We'll figure out a time for y'all to meet up. Yeah. Now, granted, were those visits, you know, supervised visitations? Yes, they were. But at the same time, you know, I want to say she was in the hospital for maybe three or four days, doing much better, much, much better, and got to go home with her baby and support system.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because that was one of those DHR. We did get DHR involved because of the threat of it, because we didn't know if we were just dealing with a very severe case of postpartum depression or psychosis. Uh-huh. So DHR was on board and we had it set up to where basically one set of the grandparents was more or less live in for a bit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's something we can figure out the discharge, we can figure out the continuous support, we can figure all that out. The biggest thing is to get that immediate early help and get in and get seen. Absolutely. You know, there are so many. If you are like, okay, this sounds like something I've heard, or I want to know more. There is so much like survivor stories. Oh, absolutely. And the more we talk about it, the more awareness, the more prevention. So thank you guys. We know it's kind of a hard, heavy episode. Um, but again, it is something that is a medical emergency.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Like I'll let you know. But we're always here for you.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_00Till next time. See ya. Maternal
Final Takeaways And Podcast Mission
SPEAKER_00mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables like anxiety, anger, and even apathy. Hosted by CEO, founder Sarah Parkhurst, and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focused on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.