The Haylo Effect Podcast
🎙️ The Haylo Effect Podcast — Practical HR Insights for Modern People Leaders
Welcome to the The Haylo Effect Podcast, your trusted source for real-world HR advice, expert interviews, and actionable strategies for today’s dynamic workplace. Whether you're an HR professional, business owner, or people manager, this podcast helps you navigate the complexities of human resources with clarity and confidence.
Hosted by seasoned HR consultant Trish Hewitt, each episode explores essential topics like recruitment, employee engagement, performance management, HR tech, organisational culture, and employment law. Learn how to build inclusive teams, streamline your HR processes, and solve the people problems that matter most to your business.
🧠 Real conversations with HR leaders, founders, and specialists
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The Haylo Effect Podcast
Authentic HR: Vicky Campbell on DEI, Work-Life Balance, and Innovation
Ever wondered what truly drives inclusive workplaces beyond the policies and tick-box exercises? HR expert Vicky Campbell joins us for a candid conversation about creating environments where everyone genuinely belongs.
Vicky cuts through corporate jargon to address what's often missing in diversity conversations: "We talk about diversity, we talk about inclusion, but the equity path is obviously where the magic happens." She challenges the notion that organisations are "done" with DEI after implementing a few surface-level changes, arguing instead for ongoing, courageous conversations that foster psychological safety.
The discussion takes a deeply personal turn when exploring the return to work after parental leave. Drawing from her own experiences, Vicky highlights how employers often miss the mark by focusing on procedures rather than human connection. "Did I feel held? Did I feel cared for in a way that I would want to be cared for?" she asks, advocating for individualised approaches that recognise each parent's unique needs—especially for those with neurodiversity.
When tackling innovation and AI in HR, Vicky strikes a thoughtful balance. While embracing technology's efficiency benefits, she emphasises that human intuition remains irreplaceable: "I can sense things as a human and my instincts tell me to take the conversation in a certain way." Her insights on four-day workweeks are equally nuanced, warning that without proper boundaries, compressed schedules risk intensifying burnout rather than alleviating it.
Throughout our conversation, Vicky embodies her philosophy of "being the change you want to see," sharing how she established a community choir to foster connection and wellbeing. Her approach to HR—prioritising authenticity, psychological safety, and human connection—offers a refreshing alternative to corporate box-ticking.
How might your organisation benefit from focusing less on policies and more on creating environments where people truly feel seen and heard? Connect with Vicky on LinkedIn or through her Instagram page "Advanced Populous" to continue the conversation.
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IMPORTANT INFORMATION: This video is published by Trish Hewitt of Haylo HR HR. The information in this video is for general guidance only and, although the presenter believes it was correct at the time it was recorded (August 2025), the law may have changed since then. You should always seek your own legal advice. This advice adheres to employment law within England, Scotland and Wales.
Welcome back to another episode of our podcast and I am delighted to be joined by the colourful and the amazing Vicky Campbell. How are you doing, vicky? I'm really well, thank you, lovely to be here. Oh, happy to start that. Me and Vicky met. Vicky and I met when we were at a disrupt event. Was it in Birmingham? It was indeed, yeah, yeah, and we both had the pleasure of grating the stage, which was lovely, but I'd been secretly stalking Vicky via LinkedIn and it was amazing to get to meet her in person and even more amazing to have you on the podcast. So, massive welcome, lovely to meet you.
Speaker 2:Bless you and that's very kind, and I'll pay you later.
Speaker 1:So, rather than have a particular kind of structure, what I thought would be nice is just to kind of canter through a few topics that are interesting to us really and hopefully interesting to our listeners as well and then just have a free-flowing conversation. So the first thing to start off with, though, is tell our listeners a little bit more about you and why I think you're so popular.
Speaker 2:Amazing. So I think sometimes it's the colour that stands out for me. So on LinkedIn, I have a beautiful array of loveliness and what I try and do is share really authentic stories about my life. But not only that. It's linked back to some kind of HR theme or topic that's going on in the world where I can bring some level of love and light to it. So I'm a HR professional by trade, been in the FTSE 100-250 space for the last 20 years.
Speaker 2:I know I don't look it, but I, as well as being a coach and mentor and business partner and all these lovely, lovely titles and things, I'm a human first. So one thing I hope stands out about me is that I really love to connect with people, and all people of all varieties. So in doing that, that's led me to the HR profession. That's why I'm so passionate about all things HR and wanting to do good in the world. And, yeah, if that stands out and floats your boat, then we are definitely part of the same tribe. All right, okay, so let's just start talking tribe Love.
Speaker 1:That All right. Okay, so let's just start talking about some topics that are interesting right now. So DEI obviously a lot of us in the HR space are looking at the things that are happening in America in particular and kind of hopefully all frowning and not being very happy about it. Is there anything in particular around DEI that you think would be useful for us to have a bit of a chat about, or even just that space about what's going on in America?
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you know what I'm sad? I'm sad to watch the news. It makes me really depressed. You know, the thing that is X has been exited from my social media platforms, for instance. Like I genuinely don't want to be force-fed somebody else's view of the world, I want all the information. I can make my own view, and that's what I think when I think of d and I.
Speaker 2:Um, it's not a three-letter acronym, it is a genuine movement of connecting all people, um, in a really fair and equitable way, and I think it's that word, equity, that stands out. For me, that's getting a bit lost. Um, we talk about diversity, we talk about inclusion, but the equity path is obviously where the magic happens, isn't it? Because we're coming from different stages. Opportunity, all that good stuff, um, and I think a really good thing for us to be able to talk about is how do we keep it on the agenda? How do we actually continue to help people not feel bored anymore? And that's a really crude way of putting it.
Speaker 2:But ultimately, I think people are going right. I've ticked the box now. You know I've put a policy in place, or you know, we've got some things that maybe are pushing the boundaries for us and therefore we're done, we're done. So on to the next thing. And it's like whoa, actually no, just because you've got a couple of more women senior women on your board or you've made a couple of more provisions for people with physical disability to enter the building, genuinely doesn't mean you're done with D&I. That's not what it is. It's going some way towards it, but actually you're not looking at the whole picture and that's what makes me really sad.
Speaker 1:What do you think? And it's quite a big question, but what do you think people can do to make sure that it stays on the agenda in the right way? Because I guess for me I feel like it kind of hopefully isn't all composed the wrong way, but it shouldn't even really be a thing. Right to me, you should be including every single person, regardless of kind of the walk of life that they come from or the disabilities that they have. If you focus on making sure that everybody belongs and is included, then it shouldn't even do. You know what I mean. It shouldn't even be a thing. But I guess there's a lot of organisations that don't think that way. But then I totally take your point around how do we make sure that it stays on the agenda? Because you don't want it to be a tick box exercise. You don't want it to be. I've just put this policy in place and great, I've done my job. How do we keep that thing alive?
Speaker 2:I think it's having continual rich conversations and courageous conversations, things like calling it out, so actually, where you see some behaviour that doesn't sit with your values, that doesn't sit with equitable nature or inclusive environments, actually having the courage and not being fearful of the consequence of speaking up. Um, so it all starts with engagement and creating that environment where people feel psychologically safe in order to feel that they can do what they want to Do. You know one bugbear about this phrase that's bandied about a lot. That kind of gets me Bring your whole self to work. In the greatest respect, I don't want to bring my whole self to work. I want to give you what I feel safe enough to bring you at that point, and I get the sentiment you should feel safe enough to bring you at that point, and I get the sentiment you should feel safe enough to bring all of you. But ultimately, in work, I have my work hat on, I deliver, yes, I make work friends, colleagues and so forth, but I also want to save something for me, for me, um. So I think as well it's allowing that balance of of um connectivity to your people and knowing your people really well and knowing that by saying, bring your whole self to work. Am I enforcing something on you that's going to make you feel uncomfortable, um, whereas actually to you, if you're having a 50% day day, your 50 is good enough.
Speaker 2:For me, it's about that enough. Isn't it being seen, being heard, feeling enough psychologically safe? All those great words? If we can engage people in a way that helps them see that, whatever it looks like, I'm going to be okay, we've done, done our job appropriately. Not always great in HR, right, because people think HR walking and people are escorted out of the building and that's genuinely hopefully. Couldn't be more further than the truth. It's about helping people be the best versions of themselves, whether that's here or somewhere else. Actually, that's kind of irrelevant. It's just helping people feel seen. No, I love that?
Speaker 1:Yep, that's a much more eloquent way of putting it. Well, I just said so. That's why I wanted to talk to you Before we came online. We were also talking a little bit about returning to work from maternity leave. So we're both mums.
Speaker 1:I remember seeing pictures of your kids when you did your presentation, as your kids are much smaller than mine. So, for those people who don't know, I have 18 soon to be 19 year old twins, um, but I remember that period when I went back to work after having kids and just, I mean, the company that I worked for were absolutely brilliant. I wasn't very well because I had two babies, um, so in the lead up to my maternity leave, they were brilliant as well, but in coming back to work, I was. I was different, you know, like my memory wasn't great and I'd forgotten things. I hadn't been there for getting on for a year, right, and things had moved on in the organisation and I just didn't feel as confident as I had been in the past and I was in a sales orientated role at the time and it's kind of not what you need when you're in sales, right, sales is all about confident.
Speaker 1:I know you were talking about your experience of returning from mat leave, and I suppose there's piece of the part that we play as HR professionals in helping people when they return. So tell us, obviously, what you're comfortable with, only but tell us what your experience was of coming back from from maternity leave um.
Speaker 2:Short version is it wasn't great, um, and I think the the details semi-irrelevant, right, but I can really resonate with some of what you've said in the sense that, um, you become some, somebody else, so you've embodied, um, you know, a new being into the world, regardless of whether it was first or second child. I had six and a half years between my first and second um. They're now nine and three, um, and and they're amazing, right, um. But you kind of you lose a little bit of who you are and how you show up um in becoming a mom, um, and and again, wouldn't change that for the world. It's a beautiful thing, um, but when considering a workplace and having experienced it myself, I think certainly some things that we could do um to encourage people um to feel connected in with the workplace whilst either on maternity leave or returning, is, um, just being human is the way I would say it. So it's really simple things. That's staying connected with them, that's remembering their birthday, that's having a conversation and remembering their children's names, acting interested and just genuinely having a really nice human way about you. And beyond that, it's about some of that practicalities, right. So if it is keeping touch days, if there are team meetings. If there's bits and bobs, it's not about the pressure, it's not about laying it on If you don't come, the world has ended, vibes. It's just encouragement. It's saying this is available to you. If you've got availability, awesome. If you haven't, not the end of the world. I'll keep you up to speed. I'll drop you an email about it, whatever it is, but just so people feel like they've got a choice in the matter.
Speaker 2:Um, in terms of my experience, I didn't have a lot of keeping touch days first time round and had all the keeping touch days the second time round. And again, I think it's because first time round returning, I found it quite different, because things had moved on so vastly that I'm not sure there was any level of, I don't know compensation Is that the right word or appreciation for the fact I'd been out for so long. So the thought behind my return felt limited. And this is me at the height of my, my career at one stage. So like smashing targets, doing extremely well um, outperforming beautiful things. So going off um and then returning to a workplace that isn't necessarily ready for your return or has given you as much thought as you would have hoped in that scenario was disappointing, um. So when I went then second child, it then became a bit harder because I think all of those memories from time number one come back, um.
Speaker 2:And then it's about people pleasing nature of okay, so I now need to be a million miles an hour. I was finding myself working some ridiculous hours to um, keep up with all of the change and so forth. And what you want in those moments is recognition of your effort. What you want in those moments is um connection with um, the new version of you. What you want is someone who's interested. Um. So if I would speak to any workplace now, um, as part of my partnering roles, it's very much about that human touch, that connection, that asking them what they need, um, because actually my needs could be very different to your needs, could be very different to the next person.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm actually neurodiverse, so I have ADHD. Um, and actually, um, if you look at any level of research into neurodiversity, neurodiverse people particularly struggle with the period of maternity and returning to the workplace, in the sense that the overstimulation of who we are and how we show up can manifest in a whole heap of bunch of ways. And again, it's about educating ourselves as employers, as HR, to be able to receive people, whether they're neurodiverse or otherwise, back from a period of absence, so whether that's long-term sick or maternity, it's about all of those provisions rather than if I take you back to old school a risk assessment document it's got a checklist on it have I asked them this question, have they filled out that form? Have I done a return to work and so forth that all the, all the peripheral stuff was absolutely done. Did I feel held? Did I feel cared for in in a way that I would want to be cared for? And unfortunately not, and that's a shame.
Speaker 2:I'm sharing this with you and your beautiful listeners today, trish, because there's so many people that I've spoken to that have had that experience and I think it's really important that we out we say it for what it is. This is not about running anybody down. Maybe people don't have the tools, maybe they're not educated, maybe they don't understand. So it's not about finger wagging. It's about an acceptance of the fact that some people's return ship experience isn't great. How can we learn from that and do better next time?
Speaker 1:And also the thing I was thinking is you know, when you work in HR, what we kind of get drummed into us is making sure that we look after our maternity returners, which is correct and we should. Also, I don't think we do the best job of looking after our fathers, right like there are dads who go away. They have more babies, and that's a whole experience too. Obviously, I don't know how to don't have that experience personally, but I wonder if we, a profession, need to start thinking a little bit more about that too.
Speaker 2:So I hear it, I hear it again.
Speaker 2:You know any standard workplace I mean, we're getting better in and a lot of organizations, um, you know I was in one in particular who had the same paternity leave as maternity leave provision, which was beautiful, um, and you know why. Why would you allow for more for the mothers and the father and I? You know I'm going to spark a a debate there for sure, sorry, sorry, listeners, um, but at the same time, you know the the, the feelings of being a new parent is really hard, isn't it so? And more, if we're thinking about this as parents now, we're sharing the load more and more and more, and some of those traditional values and views might have slipped away. You know whether you know the mother getting up in the night and fathers, you know, snoring away vibes.
Speaker 2:You know that in a lot of households is a thing of the past, um, and therefore, absolutely there is a something that we need to do to have more empathy, warmth, kindness, compassion for our fathers as well, and you know, two mums, two dads, whatever the version of parenthood, can look so vastly different these days, and I think we just need to get a little bit more forward thinking and ask the people what they need. If we started there, I think everything would would work out just fine.
Speaker 1:Now I've been talking quite a bit about AI and how it can bring real benefits to us in HR and that equally being careful of making sure that we don't automate everything, because I see those, some of those administration processes that AI could quite easily do for us are actually quite useful tools to help the new kind of generation of HR people coming into businesses learn. So tell me a little bit about what your thoughts are on innovation. I mean, do you think I'm right? I might be wrong, happy to be told I'm wrong? Um, and tell us a bit more about what you think we can be doing in terms of HR process innovation, maybe that kind of test and fail culture piece as well, I think there's a big question there, right?
Speaker 2:So I think we have to allow it to understand how useful it's going to be. So allowing a space for it is going to be really important. So, whether that's your co-pilots and your chat GPTs and all the bits and bobs that can kind of do things at rocket speed, but I agree with you from the sense that the human touch, the hearing, the tone of voice. So if I was in a call centre, I don't know, I'm a tech expert, I'm in a call centre, I can hear somebody, but I hear the vulnerability, I hear the tone, I hear the emotion in the voice and I can hear somebody, but I hear the vulnerability, I hear the tone, I hear the emotion in the voice and I can sense things as a human and my instincts are telling me to take the call in a certain way, or to seek support or to give different advice and guidance. As a HR professional, you know that you can't buy in AI, right? Being able to connect with those nuances of all of us as humans. If you've met one person with a particular way, you've met one person in a particular way, right? So every one of us is so unique. I don't believe AI can give you that. What I can absolutely connect with in terms of what we need to do is recognise that there's a place for speed. Some of the things that are really clunky and they are. I don't know about you, but I am not a techie by any stretch. You can probably hear this in the way that I'm hovering over my words right now, and the reason why I say it is that actually the thought of an Excel spreadsheet gives me the shivers. The reason why I say is that actually the thought of an excel spreadsheet gives me the shivers, um, but actually, if I can ask um an AI tool to deliver me xyz, and I can explain what I need, but I can't see it because that's not the way my brain works and they can help me on that journey. Boom, I've had the creativity. Where does the innovation sit? Is it in original idea? Is it the way it's been presented For us to debate? Right? But actually, if we work hand in glove with it, as the way I've just described, we all win. So actually we get the speed to help us with, you know, effective kind of the way that we communicate and what it is that we're able to deliver. But to your point there about testing and failing. I think it's the biggest single thing that's going to enable us tech companies, spaces where we are utilising AI more and more. If we don't allow for failure, we're never going to get to innovation. So actually creating an active space.
Speaker 2:You know, old school language used to be like think tanks. Let's all get around the table. Thinking about my old school trainer days, you'd get your post-its and your coloured pens and your flip charts and you'd be around the room and you'd be brainstorming ideas and you'd be going for it. If we take the equivalent of that and using AI and technology of well, actually, if we wrote that piece of code that enabled us to take us into that place, wow, we're solving a customer's problem. They didn't even know they needed solving, so they were going after this and we're able to take it to that next level.
Speaker 2:But it fails three times before you get to that fourth gem. That is going to be like absolutely shamaama, ding dong, enable total recreation of what it is that we do and this lightning speed, we can now do it. Wow, you know what a magical idea that is. Does it scare me slightly? A little bit? Do I think I'm going to be out of job as a result of it. No, I totally hear the newbies coming in though. So if we take away some of that space and some of the stuff that you might see as administration, that was the training ground and the grit and the good stuff that enabled us to then have the experience that we now have, that we can partner clients really effectively, because we've been in the weeds, in the mud, recognising all the bits and bobs and and so forth, and you can't buy any of that. So I think, hand in glove partnership is the answer. Um, and yeah, test and learn, test and fail in order to test and learn, and then innovation comes on.
Speaker 1:That that failure piece, I think that's a really, really interesting point, because I guess my, my personal feeling was failure and I guess what I have to tell myself every time I fail, or every time I do something that I feel is wrong, is actually I haven't failed, it's just been an opportunity to learn right, I've learned not to do that again, or there's some learning and there's something positive in it.
Speaker 1:That's what I keep trying to tell myself. Why do you think and again, it's quite a big question but why do you think we are so kind of adverse, in a business sense, to failings? I mean, a lot of the companies that I've worked in have got those lovely test and fail and environments where it is fine and it is learning and they see it in the way that I've just described. But then I've also worked in other companies or other companies where that's just a no-no, you don't do that. If you say that, then you know there's some sort of weakness, that kind of thing, and it breeds just not a great culture. But why do you think we're so adverse to that? Why why do we see it so negatively when actually that's the thing that can propel us forwards?
Speaker 2:I think it comes back to this fear again. So it's the fear of the fear of getting it wrong, fear of um failure in in that totality of word, and ultimately, failure costs money. So failure equals time, equals money. And, as a business, if you're constantly looking at that P&L bottom line, what is it that we're bringing in? And you are sales-driven, go, go, go mentality and you're building no I would describe it really crudely if you're building no fat, if you're building no extra, if you're building no extra bit, if you're building no, you know, extra bit of seasoning in and around the edges to enable you to move forward. That's going to hold you back right. Because, like you say, you know, then you start to build cultures you will have recognised this phrase, I'm sure do what you've always done, because you know why, why break, why fix what's not broken, yeah, um, and and you get to that place because you, you're not allowing any extra wiggle room and time. But that's where things like d and I creeps in. Because then actually, if you're building some time and you're building some um space for new, different creativity, all the different ideas from people of different walks of life, backgrounds and so forth to come into those spaces and fill those gaps. That's when you're like, wow, didn't even think about it, that's amazing. Brilliant, here's a. You know you can. You can even pocket a budget. When you're thinking about your holistic budget as companies to go here's our, here's our test and learn budget, here's our. We're just going to give it a go vibe and actually doing that's going to enable.
Speaker 2:Do we really think that Steve Jobs got it right all the time? You know? Do we really? You know how many Apple phones were made before Apple became Apple? And do you ever see Apple have a sale? No, why do Apple have a sale? Because they're a sought-after commodity all of the time. So why do they even need that in the world? But they will have focus groups. They will have try this and give us all your feedback and so forth. Before they then put things out into the world, they will have tested it within its nth degree because they know this is going to be the next lip that everyone's going to be shouting after um in the world. So I, I, just, I just think it needs new creative ideas. So d and I and this test and learn environment coming together, I think, is where the magic happens. Um, but ultimately short. Short answer to your question money. We don't do it because it costs us money and reputation. Who wants to be the one that got it wrong?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just making me think of other examples. I know Elon Musk probably isn't a lot of people's most favourite person on the planet Definitely not mine. But you know, I wouldn't say things like the Cybertruck have been a success, right, that's just not worked. You can't even have it in Europe because it's too big, all that kind of thing. We've been talking about the road stuff for God knows how many years. But yeah, we see kind of failure on a large scale, I guess on a regular basis. We just don't necessarily assimilate it, right. No one thinks Elon Musk is a failure in terms of the cars that he's delivered in lots of other ways, obviously.
Speaker 1:But ted's law is a very successful company, right, and for a good reason, that they try things. If they don't work, they move on to something else for a day working week. Then. I feel like this has kind of almost gone off the boil a little bit lately. I think it's been replaced by everything that we're seeing with the um employment rights act, although it might fall into the employment rights act. How do you feel about that? Do you think that's a workable thing for us in the UK?
Speaker 2:So 99.999% of me says yes, okay, so, coming in from a really selfish place, so I've done a four-day week in a various of different guises for the last nine years. So ever since I had children and I returned, I compressed hours, I have been part-time and reduced salary to accommodate, so therefore been truly part-time. I have done an amalgamation of different patterns to make that work and I've had great success from it. It's also burnt me out. So I've got both experiences in different stages across that nine years and I currently slightly compress, but not fully. That allows me my fifth day. It kind of depends what and how it's delivered right, what and how it's delivered right. So I think there's something about if we genuinely want to get the best out of people explaining and having them experience what it is to say compress across four days instead of fitting all that we do into a five-day week. We need to just be really honest about what that may look like, because I'm quite conscious of having been in the corporate world for many years. I am yet to meet anybody that does the hours in which they're contracted to do and deliver. And I think the expectation, not necessarily from the company but from the individuals and I can speak on that personally myself. That's like right, okay, I now need to get all of the work that I was doing before compressed into this time, so therefore, I need to be go, go, go, a million miles an hour. I need to be checking my phone at seven o'clock in the morning. I then need to be on and in the office. I'm a commute home. I now need to be scrolling, I need to be answering emails, I then need to be mom, parent, whatever it is. All the caring responsibilities at home. I need to get them to bed. And now I need to be on all the way through to 10, 11 o'clock at night and that might be some people's natural reality over five days a week, let alone moving this into four.
Speaker 2:Where's the headspace? Where's the thinking time? Where's the allowing for the richness of thought and creativity and all the things that we've just talked about enabling space in order for us to be innovative? That kind of goes, because now you're in the treadmill of go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go go, and you can say, okay, well, I get that on my fifth day Again, having experienced it or witnessed it from others, that day will get full, and it will get full really quickly because you might fill it with a passion project, beautiful, you might fill it with something that's going to support your wellbeing amazing. But for that four days, are you going to be potentially so burnt out across that four that, by the time you get to five, are you going to be potentially so burnt out across that four that by the time you get to five, you're just recharging the batteries ready to go again on the Monday? So that's my nervousness.
Speaker 2:Albeit, I've seen it work really well. But I've seen it work well when you're allowed to be closer to your contracted hours and I know that sounds a little bit because it's hard, um, to kind of sit in that because, um, I know that that's not. You know, naturally where people sit, especially you know more senior you get, I think the expectation of you being on all of the time creeps up a little bit more. Um, we just need to allow for it. If you could allow the pause, I think it could work.
Speaker 1:I think that also ties in quite nicely with the right to switch off. Right, like the government were talking about bringing that in, not specifically as a piece of law, but there were going to be some guidelines around it. It's still kind of floating around but they seem to have gone off the boil a little bit, but it does really tie in quite nicely with what you're saying. Right, having that ability to stop. But equally, you know, you and I know when you're in one of those high pressure jobs, if you've got the ability to switch off, brilliant, but it's almost. Where do we stop putting that pressure on people where they feel like they have to keep going?
Speaker 1:I don't think I've ever worked in a role where I felt pressured to or you know a specific person has told me you have to keep working these hours to, or you know a specific person has told me you have to keep working these hours but to be able to do a good job and to level that I think is acceptable. I've always ended up working, you know, additional hours and sometimes ridiculous hours. But yeah, so sorry. I'm not really sure I was done with that, but I think it just that right to switch off is probably dovetailed quite nicely with the four-day working week. Right, if they are going to bring something like that in, maybe dovetail it and be ready. But what do you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's perfect. I think because you know you can't have one without the other, and that's why I mentioned it in what I described, because I think that there's educating people, and I completely agree with you. No one individual has ever said to me I expect you to be. If anything, it's an encouragement that goes I've seen you ridiculous o'clock. Or you sent me that email, even though you've delayed it, um, so that I get it at you know nine o'clock in the morning, I can still see that you sent it to me at 11 o'clock last night. What's going on? And that's the right conversation for someone to be having with me. But then it was almost like a I get it, but you know I hadn't finished that piece of work, and if and if I don't do that, then I can't sleep because I'm thinking about that thing. So it's then a you thing.
Speaker 2:So then, how can we work on self to enable us to have the confidence to go? Do you know what? I've closed my laptop. It's me time, it's family time. Now it's partner time, once the kids have gone to bed, or I've just won an early night in a bath. Whatever it is, I just want to be me, I want to sing in my local choir. I want to go for a run, whatever it is, and allow the pause, but because we're so go, go, go. As a society I'm not sure, I'm not sure that we're necessarily psychologically ready for that. But yeah, we've got a big hill to climb there, but you know, if we can get there and support each other through it to climb there, but you know, if we can get there and support each other through it, we can get there.
Speaker 2:I'd say, do you sing your local choir? I do so. Oh, my god. Yeah, I've sang at abbey road studios. I sing at my local town hall, um, and yeah, all sorts, all sorts, all sorts of performances. Um, I've got a number of performances coming up and, uh, trish, four weeks ago started my own wellbeing choir, so it's called Feel Good Choir.
Speaker 2:Yeah, feel Good Pop Voices Choir. It's on a Friday morning. I actually did it this morning, 10 till half past 11 at my local church. It's not a church-based choir, that's just the venue that we hire. To be clear, it's a popular song, it's not voice parts, it's genuinely a builder community sing along in front of a projector of some fabulous words across all of the decades, all different genres and we have a really good time. Um, so, yeah, I do it because it makes me feel good. And the point of starting my own choir was about, actually, if I want to create some change in the world, why not be the change? Um so, yeah, if we could all do our own little bit to build communities and help people feel good, then, hey, I'm role modelling it for my children.
Speaker 1:I bloody love you. You're awesome.
Speaker 2:I took a paper. I went four days a week so I could help others feel good and I genuinely mean that in the nicest respect, like that's why I share it, because like, let's be the change we want to see and let's encourage others to. I mean, some of the people that come to my choir and have started to like I'm the only person that they see in a day, or, you know, they've met a bunch of people that they're having a cup of tea and a chat with in the interval that they would have never, ever been exposed to in their world. So if I can do that for others, that fills my cup because it makes me feel good that I'm enabling that to happen. And then they, yeah, they build connections for the future. So, yeah, let's get off our bums and do something to create good in the world. I love that.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, Alrighty. So if people want to get hold of you and use your brilliant brain and all of your brilliant talents, how can they get hold of you? What's the best way for them to contact you?
Speaker 2:I have a LinkedIn profile again that's very pink and fabulous. So by all means, DM me and we can have a conversation. And I've got an Instagram page called Advanced Populous. I chose Advanced Populous because populous being the Latin meaning of people Advancing people is the aim of the game for me. So, yes, I'm a mental health first aider. I'm a HR business partner. I, as I've just described, am now a choir leader, which is pretty awesome. I do one-to-one coaching, I do group stuff and, yeah, in most recent months, I've been doing confidence coaching too. So helping people stand in their power, be their authentic selves and, essentially, just be awesome. So hence, the very first time that we ever saw each other was at a speaking engagement at Disrupt HR, where I got up and, quite honestly, you were laughing and howling one minute and then were uber serious about the topic in the next. All about authenticity and helping yourself be the true, authentic version of you. That's what I'm about and that's how you can get in contact with me.
Speaker 1:I love that, like look, I could talk to you all day, but I'm going to have to wrap things up because I'm sure you've got other things to do. But but I'm going to have to wrap things up because I'm sure you've got other things to do. But thank you so much for being on the podcast. I really really appreciate it and hopefully all the listeners are benefiting from your amazing knowledge. I'm sure we'll see each other again soon. We'll have to make that happen, if not, yeah love that.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me and, yeah, great to have the conversation and, yeah, many more to come.