75: Fr. Stephen David - Lessons from Founding a Classical School

In this episode, James sits down with Fr Stephen David, principal of St John of Kronstadt, to discuss how the school has grown and the wisdom he has learnt since our last episode with him in 2023.
More information of the upcoming conference can be found here: https://www.stjohnacademy.qld.edu.au/orthodox-education-conference-2026 

Please consider becoming a founding donor for St John Henry Newman College, a new independent classical school in South Brisbane.

Music: 'Inspiring Dreams' by Keys of Moon | https://soundcloud.com/keysofmoon
Creative Commons CC BY 4.0

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome back to another episode of Educating Humans. I'm your host, James, and today I'm joined with Father Stephen David, the uh principal of St. John of Cronstadt Academy down in Brisbane. Father Stephen, thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me, James. So today we thought we'd get Father Stephen back on, uh, because he's actually one of our original guests. I think he might be even our second guest or something like that on the podcast. So people would have to go back a fair way. It could be like four years ago. Um But we thought we'd get you back on because we wanted to catch up and see where things have gone since that first episode, uh, get a bit of an understanding of how the academy has grown, uh, how it's been developed, and then get some reflections from you on terms in terms of what the what you've learnt along the journey. Um so give us a give us a snapshot as to kind of what the journey's been like and where you're where the academy is now.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah, so since I came on the podcast, uh I think this was back in 2023, so this is before we opened in 2024, uh, there was a lot of work to try to get the school open. And uh, you know, even that was a significant challenge. Um but we opened our doors on the 22nd of January 2024 with 12 students and um and two teachers. Uh we were running composite classes um and uh and very minimal staff because obviously running a school is is an expensive exercise. And so um the first year um, and I was reflecting on this when you asked me to come back on the podcast. Uh I think everything that could possibly go wrong did go wrong in the first year, and uh it was just really difficult um from a student perspective, from a staffing perspective, from a family's perspective, managing parents' expectations. Uh and um, and I mean, even before we opened the doors, it was it was not easy to convince people to leave established schools with what I call the the nice shiny buildings, and actually convince them to come to this very small startup school uh that's renting premises uh and has very limited uh resources. And so our first year was really trying to find our feet um as to you know how are we going to actually do this. Uh, we had, I mean, we were very fortunate because we've got a sister school in the US, we could draw on a lot of their experience, but it's got to be tailored for us here in Australia, and that that's that that makes it more complex. But I think um, you know, we we went just uh from from a high-level overview of this first year. We started with 12 students, we grew in the second year to 23, actually 24 students. Um we're in uh third year, we're up to 34 students, and uh I think 2027 is going to be close to 50 um in total. So um the growth has been there, but you know, I've seen changes in teaching staff in that period of time. We've had changes in, of course, the composition of families and students, um, changes in um um, sorry, I'm just trying to think. Um you know, to our board and um some significant changes there. And um so it's it's been progressive growth, and you know, as we've gone through the process, it's constantly about going back to our mission to ask ourselves the question. This is the thing that I think about constantly, are we fulfilling our mission? And the cons and the thing I say to my my staff constantly is are we, you know, if we don't focus on our mission as a classical school, which is you know wisdom, virtue, and eloquence leading to theosis, then we risk falling back to becoming just a mainstream school, um, and you know, with just some some nice religion added to the end of it, which is exactly why we started the school, because that model from our perspective doesn't really work or hasn't worked. So um, but it hasn't come without you know many personal challenges, and and uh, you know, one of those things that every school finds itself in, or most many schools, is the financial aspect, and that's always difficult. Um, just making ends meet um can be hard. And uh so, you know, even and even you know, even having students leave the school um when it does happen can be can be difficult because you're constantly questioning, you know, um why is this happening? And then there's there are there are reasons sometimes way out of your control as to why that that occurs. But um, but yes, going into our fourth year of operation next year, and um you know we're growing and um we're already you know looking at bigger plans for um a bigger school campus and you know where we go from here.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

That's a great sign. I mean, growth is always a great sign, isn't it? Um and I love one of the things you said there, and I was thinking about it, and I was like, yeah. But does does much of that matter, which is the idea of, you know, the I mean it does matter to to some parents, I'm sure, but the idea of uh you don't have all the facilities, and I'm like, Well, I'm just thinking of like Christopher Perrin or Andrew Cohn, who would always say, like, well, you need a good book, you know, like that's the most important thing is a good book. And it's crazy that that um what your school gets to offer is a as you were saying there, a rich a rich curriculum that is aiming you know for truth, beauty, and goodness. Um and if you've got that, then then that's really the differentiating factor, you know, because what and that that is how we kind of cultivate saints, um is this is this interaction with these things meaningfully um and with the God whom is truth, beauty, and goodness. And so I don't know from my point of view, I'm like, oh, why would I need the school with the swimming pool when I got the school with the good curriculum? But I'm sure it's it's a different world out there, and navigating all of the different parent concerns is is a valuable and necessary part of it. So then tell me because it's great that you've you've grown the school to this point, it's it's still in this developing phase, which is awesome. But when you first came on, none of them the doors weren't open, and we were just talking about your reasons for starting the school, and you've already hit on those again. Yeah, um, and that that led you down this this road of kind of discovery, right? Where you were reading and you were learning and you were seeing, um, but now you've kind of got the tangible direct experience in front of you. So the question I want to ask is if you if you were to reflect on um on the journey, what are some of the things that you have had read about you thought you had an understanding of um, particularly from this education, like the classical education point of view, but then once you've seen it in at life, you know, with life in the school, you reflected differently, saw more. Um, is there anything like that that you'd you'd be able to reflect on?

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Yeah, so I think for me anyway, uh you know, I had this vision of of classical education, and uh and having traveled to the US and seen classical schools, I had a more tangible idea of what uh that looks like. But um I think one of the things that really stands out for me is the longer I spend time in classical education, the more I realize that virtue is the key, uh the development of virtue. And uh one of the things that's cons that I'm constantly questioning is you know, can you teach virtue? And and I don't think there's a simple answer to that. Um I think we can I think in some ways, yes, it can be taught. Uh, I think we can model it. Hopefully, as uh teaching staff, we are modeling the virtues that we want our students to have. But you know, when I speak to the parents, uh the thing that I I try to emphasize is you know, it's wisdom, virtue, and eloquence. But wisdom without virtue becomes arrogance, and eloquence without virtue can become a form of tyranny. And so you know, and one of the things I didn't realize is you can have the best curriculum in the world, but uh if you're not focused on character development in the student, um then we're missing the point and we're not fulfilling our mission. And I've realized so often that that comes through the interactions that we have, not the formal lessons, but the interactions that you have on a daily basis with your students and how you manage that, and how do we use those opportunities to help them to see um what is virtue and what what the what the vices are. And so, you know, I'll give you an example. One of the one of the things every school has to have a disciplinary system of some sort. You can't avoid it. And they're important um they're important growth opportunities. And one of the things we like to do is get the student to reflect on, and we've got a we've got a handout, and one of my teachers put it together, and I think it was she's done a great job, is um you know, what vice was at play in this situation, because we talk about what happened, what was my pardon, and what could I do differently next time. But looking at what vices and and what is the corresponding virtue, what is the what is the virtue that I need to work on? Um and getting them to think about that. Um, and I think that's vitally important, and I I think also it's it's very important that the students understand that that's why they're there. You you constantly need to be talking about this um to your students because it's well and good if it's in the mission, but um if the students don't have an understanding of their purpose in the school, then you risk them just treating it like an academic exercise as well. And it's the same message you have to give to parents. Um, I make it very clear, our top priority is not academics. Um just by the same token, our our top priority is not to be a a zero um a no technology school because you know it's it's very easy to become known for that um and to miss the point. So I think um, you know, and also as staff um we need to be working on ourselves and and the development of our virtue, and because uh so much of what happens is a reflection of who we are, um, and and uh that's one of the things I quickly, especially in the first 12 months, when things were you know, that lots of lots of things went wrong. And uh, you know, uh just stopping to uh observe how I react in those situations uh was a good opportunity to to think about am I growing in virtue myself. I think also uh one of the things in in in classical education um is uh the the curriculum, right? And so uh we did quite a bit of thinking about is is what we're offering working. Uh are we uh trying to are we asking for too much at times? Are we trying to do too much? And this is this is something that especially when you have teachers who've come out of the mainstream teaching system, um, it can be very difficult to break out of certain models. So, you know, you can you can sit there and talk about multi-non-malta all day, but you know, if it's not tangibly applied into the into the classroom, and for those who are listening, multiple non-malta means much, not many, um, trying to do less things but do them very, very well. Uh, you find um well, what we what we found is that unless you build your curriculum with those pedagogical principles in mind, it can be very difficult to do it. You can't throw these these principles in later and try to fit things in to the to the pedagogy, because the pedigre pedagogy gets squeezed out of the process. There's just so much to do in a particular year. I mean, you know, this change uh up at PCC, it's it's a school terms are really, really busy. And so, and how much you need to cover under the strain curriculum is there's quite a bit there. So I think um that's that's a really important thing. And what we're doing is we're trying to design curriculum with the pedagogy in mind, first and foremost. Build it into to the to the to the pedagog to the um sorry, to the curriculum, uh rather than it being an afterthought. Um and so I think that's been quite important. Um I think also uh the how we actually uh uh define classical education has kind of has morphed and changed a bit uh since I've since we opened the doors of the the academy. Fundamentally, I don't think we've deviated from our mission. But you know, how do you really inspire wisdom, virtue, and eloquence in your students and setting the expectations? One of the things you I've realized is you can't get disheartened if a student after six months is nice, is not wise, virtuous, and and eloquent, right? Um it's and and even there are even times where you kind of scratch your head and go, are we getting anywhere? Uh and and I think we have to remember it's a lifelong journey for for these students, and so often you can think, oh, the student isn't picking this up, and and they're just we're just not getting any progress. But we're planting the seeds, um and you we have to learn to be patient, really patient. You know, God is in abundantly impatient is abundantly patient with me. Uh I think you know, we need to be patient with our students, and that means they're going to stumble and fall a lot. And this is something interesting that you know uh I think that sometimes parents have some unrealistic expectations of what a classical school is and what it isn't. Um in so many ways, a classical school is going to be like uh any regular school in that there are going to be disputes between students, there are going to be issues of discipline, there are going to be issues that happen in the playground. You know, I'll give you an example. Um one parent uh spoke to me and was and was concerned about what one student was telling their child in the playground about something uh uh something on it's currently being watched by by by students. Um the parent didn't agree with uh what this other student was was talking about, and it it's like well, look, we we can't you know, we're not there to control families, and what they do at home, we're there to mould the soul so that the child can make good choices, uh, and so you know, sometimes the parents' expectations that, especially being a classical orthodox school, somehow it's gonna be some sort of utopia. Uh that you you know nothing will ever go wrong, and it's like, well, no, no, no, things are gonna go wrong. Students are going to do the wrong thing, and they're going to say things that are frankly inappropriate because they're learning how to become human, right? And this is the process, and so you know, um trying to manage those expectations uh I think is important, um, but um and and of course managing parents' expectations in any school is always going to be a struggle. Uh, but we've got wonderful families, and I think it's important too that you set the expectations from the very outset with families, and you don't try to sell it as something that it's not.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

It's it's yeah, no, I was just I just I love everything you're saying right now. Um, it's and it's it's true in so many ways. I think um at the start you were talking about that that thing of virtue, and then I was like, yeah, and then I was thinking of but the student becomes like his master, and I was like, well, that's so then I the because I'm always in I'm always challenged by um whether I'm being, you know, where my maybe where my vices are rubbing up against the vices of the student, you know. And so I'm and so I you're constantly reflecting like I need more virtue, I need my and it that's true of all of us, but I feel like in teaching it becomes a because there's that dynamic, the student, and I'm like, no, you need to be on it, and and I get to work with some amazing colleagues, and some of them are um just remarkably virtuous. And one of the things that I think that I'm always and it's funny, you you ended up talking about it, but one of the things that I was always like, I need always need is more patience, more patience that comes across as charity as well. I think that's one of the things where when I become impatient, I become uncharitable. Um, and and if there's one thing that children need, it's charity, you know, because they are and and and patience, because they are, as you were saying, they are learning how to be human. And and I always come away from you know, I'll it'll be holidays, right? So it's holidays at the moment, and I'll be reading a bunch of books because I've finally gotten a little bit more time to delve into these books, and I'm reading them, I'm loving it, and it's it's great. And then I come to school and I'm shocked. I'm like, oh, I forgot about the children, the individual children, not just the children as a collective, or these individual children. And they are all going to experience this education s in a different way because they're all different people and they're all on different journeys. Um And I think about that even when we come back to the idea of, you know, like the evangelistic nature of a Christian education, right? And then and then also then what's the metric of success? Because sometimes, you know, every every student has got their own path and and God is working through them in his own wonderful way. And so I think I used to think um with that idea of managing expectations, I used to have the goalposts far more narrow than they are, and far more immediate than they are now. And so understanding that that idea of planting seeds, sometimes that is all you get to see on it. And you just kind of you're like the boy presenting the loaves and fishes to the Lord and going, This is all I've got, this is what I've done. I've brought you faithfully the best thing I can, and I trust that you will do the miracle working. Uh, because he's he is the one. And so then, yeah, I think um I really like the idea of planting seeds because I think so much of education is like uh is like a garden. You know, you need to, as you're saying, you need to set aside that space. You need to, you need to actually, you know, set the garden bed. And you've got some ideas of what you want you're planting seeds, and and you don't want to overcrowd it. And then you just need so much patience because so so often there is, you know, you don't know how the plants are gonna grow, you don't know how each individual thing's gonna develop, and and what sometimes the best things that have come up organically in my classrooms have happened not because of me or my planning, but because of of the space that's been allowed for students to be creative in their own expressions. And and you know, this can be based on assessment or or curriculum or learning, but even just like the classroom culture and the way that these students start to learn who each other are and who they are, and there's this kind of community building. Um, I think these are all the things that that you like you've touched on there as well. Um, that I just as you were saying, I was like, Yeah, this is also true. Uh, and it all comes back to this patience, patience with expectations, patience with the children, even the patience with the curriculum to slow down, go at a pace which isn't actually zooming through because all of a sudden we're wrestless, we want to know. You need to you need to be able to dwell in this space.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Um yeah, and I think this runs so contrary to to mainstream education, where it's okay, let's look at the results of the assessment, and then somehow determine um whether we have educated this child. And uh it's like you can't really measure virtue, and it may be that you you don't get to see the result of that until it gets really tested, and that'd be that may be way down the line for that particular student where they're in a situation, and maybe something comes to their mind. This is maybe well a long time after they've left school, and something comes to their mind that they uh heard, for example, uh we read the lives of the saints every morning with our morning prayer. And maybe it's something in the lives of the saints that jump out to them and uh helps guide them. Um but you know, we talk about cultivating. Cultivating is an agricultural term. You you you cultivate the soil, and um, and so we have to be we we have to be enormously patient with the students and not fall into I think fall into the the mistake of looking at the results and thinking that that's the measure of success. And I mean, last year um you know, we had some really great results for for for reading. Um, we have a a very phonics intensive um uh program. And uh, you know, the preps are learning 70 phonograms in their first year with all the rules that go around it. Um, and they're decoding quite well. And and uh, you know, we found that we tested them at the end of the year, we tested them at the beginning of the year and then the end. And last year we found 78% of our students were reading significantly above their chronological age. Um and that's important because by grade two, um, and my son is in grade two, uh, and he last term he read the whole Pinocchio, the original chapter book. Um and you know, we I sat there next to him because you know, I have to sit there next to him, make sure that he's getting it right. And you know, he was sitting there and and he brought two words and was decoding and getting 90% right and sometimes 100% right, because the phonics program just you've got to keep building on it, um, which is why I can't understand why we have such a reading problem in this country here. Um, when if you get the foundation right, it it's not difficult to do, but you do need to do it early. But back to the point, you know, 78% of the prep students, you know, 60% were reading at least a year and a half above their chronological age. So if they're five, they're reading it at a seven and a half-year-old level.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Um, and look, it's it the the program we've got is very, very good, but also we have excellent literature to go with that. You know, they're reading Beatrix Potter, they're reading The Grimm's Fairy Tales, you know, we do we do a ton of narration. Um, but you can you could easily rest on your laurels and go, ah, well, we're doing well. But again, as a classical school, where our mission is very clear, you know, we have to stop and go, but are they growing? Are we cultivating the soul? Are they growing as human beings? Now, when they're five, it's hard to know, but you do see changes, um, you do see growth there, even in a five-year-old, um, where they're make learning to make better choices. Um, they're learning how to, you know, um, how to deal, interact with their with their peers. You know, one of the things we do is when they're out at recess and lunch break, if they come up to, I told my staff, if they come up to you during their their their playtime, and they they have some sort of an issue with another student, uh, and they ask you to solve it for them, the answer is no. You go back and you solve sort it out, we're not we're not going to solve their problems for them, right? Because that's not helping the student. And it's like, well, and sometimes you have to help them out a bit. You know, okay. Well, what do you think you could do in this situation? Oh maybe I could tell them to stop, yeah. What else could you do? Uh maybe I can just ignore ignore it. Sure. Maybe I could go play with another student, yes. So getting them to to actually become self-sufficient and actually learning how to solve their own problems, and so in some ways, those sorts of interactions and those sorts of things are you have to hold them up higher than the reading test, right? But of course, we have such a mentality in this country of we want to see results, you know, what's your nut plan score? Who cares? Um, you know, I just that doesn't tell you anything about the student, frankly. Um, I mean, it's a good it's a good metric for for things to to to help us to know you know something uh things about our student and where they need to work on, but ultimately, um how are they at home with mum and dad? How are they dealing with their brothers and sisters? Are they being good members of their church? Right? These are the things which I think, even in their interaction with their teachers, the students know very clearly, because I make it very clear um what my expectations are. So I say I say to them when we walk in to school of a morning, what is the first thing that we do? And the first person they see at the at the front desk is um is my wife who does school administration, um, and they know now that they make eye contact, they smile, and they say good morning. It's a very simple thing. It's learning how to be civilized in a and and we don't teach this anymore. We do we don't teach this, and um you know, or uh just common courtesy and manners. Um I I just came back from um some we went up the coast last week, and the guy at the cafe come and came and complimented me because um on how polite my children were. That's the work of the teachers, probably more than me, but but nevertheless, it's uh we don't teach these things anymore. Um that is just as important as the reading test outcomes, it's just as important as the math test. Um and so but it takes time, and as you said, James, it it requires a lot of patience, um but also being patient. I also it it's also being patient with, for example, my staff, and you know, they're learning how to teach classically and they're learning how to be classical educators, and again, it's gonna take time. So I've you know, I I would love them all to have read, you know, um the Iliad, the Odyssey, Beowulf, um, Crime and Punishment all in turn one, but it's not gonna happen. So just managing my expectations, um, I think um uh is is is part of that process.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Yeah, I think um it's so interesting to to hear the things you're saying, and I'm and and obviously you're talking about a primary school at the moment. Um I was just thinking, you know, I'm I I teach in the high school, and so when you were like, oh, and the student comes to you and they ask you about this, and and the teacher, like those interactions are so important and just as important as the phonics, because just like reading, students stop asking for help, they stop coming, you know, and so then all of a sudden, you really are trusting on a lot of a solid primary foundation when they get into the secondary years, because they won't come and ask for as much help, and the teacher needs needs to be monitoring these things still to you know, just like a parent needs to. You're kind of you're seeing the the problems, but also there's a degree of a hidden life of a student, that's like there's a hidden life of a child, but in the primary years, that hidden life is actually that it's they they want to show that a lot of the time. There's still things, but but there's so much more of that that they're open to that dialogue and conversation with and and to just get help. And I think it's uh yes, it's such a wonderful, brilliant, important foundation. Just like the phonics, you know, the kid, they need you need to give them these gifts early, yes, so that they once they have them, they can use them uh and and develop them, you know. And so, yeah, you're right. One of the one of the issues with Australian literacy uh might be that we don't know how to read, but also that we don't want to, you know, and part of that becomes we don't have we somewhere in it, the love of reading is lost. Maybe it's to competing influences that want to draw people away from what seems like it, you know, it's it's a hard work reading a book, particularly if you're untrained in it. Yes, and then if we don't repeat it and work at it, then it becomes even harder. And so all of these seeds, if we want to continue the garden thing, well they just have to keep being watered, and and and it's beautiful that in the early years you get such an important opportunity to really start tending to those seeds well, you know, because you yeah, the sapling is far more um or the sprout, we will say the sprout is far more um vulnerable, far far easier to die and to wither than the well-established plant. But we need the sprout before we can get there, and so in this primary school age, there's so every everything is important in it, and it's really a time when you need to have the priorities right so that you don't waste time doing the wrong things.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Correct, correct, and and you're you're absolutely right, and remember that you know uh you cannot straighten a fully grown tree. You must straighten it when it's when it's j just beginning to grow, and you need to set the right conditions for it to grow straight. And so this is part of what we're doing, um, and helping them to see what it means to be human, what it means to live a good Christian life, um, what it means to be a good member of your society. Um but uh I can understand that you know but but running a a a school, you can get so caught up in the day-to-day uh, you know, busyness of curriculum and content, and all of that is all of that is fine. Um I think one of the challenges too is that is you know, we talk about wanting to see Christ in everything that we teach. Um but that's I think that's harder than it at at first seems um because when you're uh when you're teaching a regular maths class um it's it's it's not easy. When you're when you're especially when you're uh building foundational concepts, it's not easy. Um so you've got to be you've got to be creative in how you go about doing that. And so so we're we're doing a lot of thinking curriculum-wise about how can we do it better rather than just taking a program and just uh you know uh uh applying it. I mean uh I've started teaching grade four five um um uh some biblical Greek, and uh that's a really good way of because we're we're progress slowly and progressively reading the gospel of of John. Um, you know, in the beginning was the word, and the word is with God, and the word was God, and Archi in Ho Logos, and um uh the students have a lot of work to do, um and especially when they come back for term three, because uh we've got they've still got a lot to learn, but uh it's pretty obvious in a context like that. Um but but in other areas it can be hard, and that's where I think that that's where the teacher has to be the imager of Christ in the classroom. It's not about this arbitrary, I think, let's talk about Christ. Let's let's somehow artificially plant him in in here some somehow. I think it's got to be that we are the images of Christ for them. Um and that's you know uh and look this this this uh that requires work on ourselves before we think even think about the student.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah, I think um it there's so so much weight to this uh to this journey, you know. It and and just as we are the image bearer of Christ to them, they are to us as well, you know, and and in that and so there's this I mean it's just what a privilege to have a a profession that is so authentically engaged in this spiritual journey and in this I mean I mean the Christian life is available in all professions and vocations, but in education it does, particularly in Christian education, it is so uh explicit, it's so there immediately that it's it's such a privilege to have that. Um, but it is a challenge, you know, because if it's going to be done well, then it needs to be done well, and that means that we need to be constantly working on ourselves in it. Um so let's talk about them because obviously you you come into the classrooms and you and you teach the students in in a in some capacities, but your your role as the principal, uh and you've done very well not to bring it into the principal's office uh in this discussion, but I do want to I do want to open up the hood a little bit and see kind of the workings behind the school a little bit. Uh and one of the one of the things I was on a panel recently uh talking to different school leaders and one of the questions I asked them uh was I I quoted C.S. Lewis's first and second things essay. Do you know this this essay? He he sort of talks about uh when we put first things first, we get subsequent things, you know. But when you put second things first, when you elevate the secondary, then you lose both the first thing because you're not focusing on it, but you actually also lose the second thing because it was a consequence of the first thing. Yes, you know, and so the question I asked all of them, I said, well, what are what really are the first things then when it comes to a classical education? Because we often get we look at the secondary things, and you know, maybe it's the outcomes of what, but what are the first things? And and I want to bring this now to in your role as a principal when you think about your role and and the way that you're operating. What do you see as the first things for you and for your school?

SPEAKER_00 42:21

That's a very good question. Um I think it's got to be constantly directing everybody back to our purpose, so back to wisdom, virtual and eloquence, but not for just for the sake of those things, but for um growth towards theosis. And um so when I have my you know, when I have my Monday morning catch-ups uh with my staff every Monday morning with run through the week, uh what's coming up so that everyone's on the same page. I I try, I don't always I'm not always successful, but I I always try to begin that Monday morning briefing with something about that, a reminder of why we're here and keep that at the forefront. Um and you know, when uh when we talk to students, like we we have our prayer time, we read the lives of the saints, and I usually give uh a very, very, very quick little sermon on the life of the saint, and it's constantly pointing them back to uh virtue and and saying, see how it works for this saint. And uh so constantly, and something I heard which I think is actually uh very good is that the word virtue has to be part of your vocabulary within the school and i don't think we we I don't think we say it enough um and I think that that's something we have to do better but my job as head is to keep you know to keep the ship uh go moving in the right direction and the mission sets the direction and so constantly even with with parents uh just because you've spoken to them at interview doesn't mean that they remembered anything you said at interview right and one of the things um one of the things that I I've just been thinking about this over the over the holiday break is how we've got to do better at our educating our our parents because I'm pretty sure if I went and spoke to our parents and asked them what is virtue very few of them would be able to give me a good answer. Um I think if you asked many teachers uh across the board I don't think I I I think you you'd probably you know get a a varied array of of answers but really uh working on the parents understanding because the child goes home at the end of the day we don't control their lives and that's not the purpose of a classical school you want to create somebody who's independent enough to be able to to do the right thing without me standing over the top of them you know that's just not feasible um but we want a home life a home environment which is going to support the mission of the school so that's just as important and I I think um that interaction um is vitally important uh you know that's the one of the problems I have is because we're a very small school and we have very limited resources I mean as head I pretty much do everything um you know if if if if if when the toilet system and the boys toilets you know jams up I've got to jump in there and and do it. So it it's it's thinking about what can be done and and I think you're right CS Lewis putting first things first I say this to the I say this to the the staff and I say this to um the parents and that is we must be praying for our students we must be praying for our children we pray we pray the divine liturgy every Wednesday morning we have a small chapel at the academy um which will be gone next year because uh uh I need to use it as a classroom but we'll continue the divine liturgies and um and that's an opportunity for us to be praying for our students if we're not praying for the students it doesn't matter what you do it doesn't matter how good your curriculum is in terms of that first things first seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness put God first um you know um that how best to do that well in prayer I don't think that I I can't see any better way that doesn't mean that we neglect everything else but it has to begin with prayer that is one of the first things um my own personal prayer life and but also praying for the students and putting them in God's hands and asking for the intercessions of the Mother of God and for St. John our patron fundamentally important um and that has to apply to all the staff because if if if it's just me um I'm not the one in the classroom most of the time but the teacher is and so you know the teacher has to be praying themselves in order to teach their children how to pray pray.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

So I think I love that you keep talking I love that that's really good.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

Um but I think um the and this is why we try to encourage the parents at home you know please be praying with your children um during the day one of the things we do is we have prayers interspersed throughout the day before lessons after lessons they're all they're always chanted and sung in the orthodox tradition they do a they do a lot of singing um but also there's um a psalm memorization program we have so they the students will memorize two psalms every term uh and that's because they get up and as a class they get up at the pretty much at the same time face their icon corner and recite the psalm that they're learning together um this is a concept I got from um Joshua Gibbs in the US who you know talked about uh his experience with getting students to memorize things and then he he spoke to some students and came to the realization that they said well the things that we memorize are the things that we did together they're the things that we remember not his a psalm take it home and memorize it and at the end of term I'm gonna test you on it no we we recite the psalm every day for 10 weeks um and children are sponges and they absorb a huge amount um and it was interesting um my my daughter and I and my son we like to watch this um uh YouTube channel called uh country living vlog I think it's called CLV uh and it's pretty much no talking it's just these two these farmers who live in Azerbaijan and the wife is this amazing cook and just watching her picking the vegetables and then she's all this cooking that she's doing and it's um um and but this there was a scene where um it showed a little stream and my daughter turned to me and she immediately said the Lord is my shepherd I shall not want he makes me to lie down but beside the green pastures and that link see because another aspect of modern education is we don't memorize anymore because we've got Google and now we've got ai I didn't even I didn't even need Google anymore.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Um but you know the memorization and the internalizing of the psalms enables the heart to dwell and to contemplate more deeply on these things that's the that's why you memorize you make it your own and so uh that process is really really important um because we may think well what's the point of them learning eight psalms a year well you don't know you don't know when that student throughout life is going to need to call on those psalms you know they may have a big fall and it's psalm 51 have mercy me oh God according to thy great mercy the great psalm that Saint that that King David writes after his fall you don't know when they're gonna need that or when those words are going to come back to them and so you know this that's got to be I think um again first things first God has to be preeminent um he has to be constantly present and it has to be practical um at this as along with along with the academic side we're reading we're we're we're learning our letters and we're we're learning our numbers and we're dealing with fractions and and water systems and you know all all the or uh you know um ancient Mesopotamia as my my son was learning last turn and um so you know all those things are great um but let's never lose sight of the incarnate lord in in all of those things that's really good the um I've always said that I love that you're just doing all the things like that's awesome I've always said in terms of religious education particularly in primary the lives of the saints are the best avenue because they are it is it's just it's they're so I mean they're rich and and real and meaningful for us but for children it's even more so you know these are great heroes of our faith that they now get to see just like all the other heroes that we read about um and that alongside the Psalms I also think that's just that's brilliant memorizing the Psalms is is a great great practice so to be able to give them those gifts early is is wonderful. But then the other one I always say yeah and you've just you've just said all three but prayer you know if we aren't if you want to I think one of the and look the school the school doesn't have to do everything we're not the primary educator or even and we're not the sole educator of the students right but these things are important and they need to happen um but if you want to make Christians well then you can't catechise without prayer you know you can't it it doesn't matter if you know your theology back and forth perfectly if you don't have a relationship with the Lord correct then it then you're just it's just all a book you know it's all head knowledge and he comes to encounter and so helping to cultivate that prayer life as well is one of the most important things and so I love that you're doing those and I've loved all your answers. I'm very um appreciative for you coming on before we let you go um there's your your school where if people want to find out more about your school where should they go and you've got an upcoming conference so I think it's worth plugging that as well.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

Yeah. So to to get more information about the academy uh you can go to our website www.st john academy um s t john academy or one word dot qd dot edu.au and uh the we we built a new website in our first three years and and uh that that's got plenty of information there especially on on classical education there's some good you know documents that you can download and and and read through um or just more information about our curriculum and and how we work uh we have an uh we have an Orthodox education conference but when I say orthodox education conference it's it's really a more of a a a classical education conference uh but uh that will be happening on the 25th of July here in Brisbane at our cathedral um and uh we've got a we've got a keynote speaker coming out from the US Benjamin Leiter and uh he's done a lot of work with Adrian Fries but he's also um uh he's written his own writing program uh curriculum uh and he'll be talking to us and the theme of the the conference is educating the heart which is exactly what we're supposed to be doing as a classical school uh and so that's the 25th of July tickets are still available we're encouraging as many people to come and attend um it'll be at a beautiful venue um the the other guest speaker is Helen Katrullis who uh is one of our board members from Melbourne and she's going to be talking to us about Paidea um there's gonna be a panel there's gonna be in the afternoon we're gonna have workshops um because we want it to be practical we want it we want the teachers to be able to or whoever they are maybe a homeschool parent to be able to you know um uh take some of these things home and apply them so tickets are on sale through the website and so um if you go to our events page you'll be able to buy a ticket for the conference um you can pay through that site as well but again uh if people are having any difficulties with purchasing tickets uh they can just email us and the email address is on the website the admin email address is there and uh we'll of course um would be more than happy to help you wonderful well thank you very much Father Stephen uh I'll also point people to the fact that that you can donate to St.

SPEAKER_01 58:08

John of Kronstadt as well and we we're on the wrong side of the financial year to do this plug um but if you do want tax deductions well why not donate to a good and valuable and and uh growing school that would really appreciate your financial support uh but nonetheless thank you so much for coming on father it's been a privilege to hear and uh from you and and your reflections on the the early days of the journey uh what with what will be a long and prosperous history of St. John of Kronstadt Academy but thank you for coming on. Thank you very much it's been a pleasure