In the land of 10,000 lakes , a remarkable movement was born . Welcome to Hometown Hero Outdoors . We are dedicated to honoring our military service members , veterans and first responders by providing them with unforgettable outdoor recreational opportunities . We believe those who have served and sacrificed so much for our country and communities deserve a chance to reclaim their spirit and find healing in the great outdoors . This is Hometown Hero Outdoors . Welcome to the Hometown Hero Outdoors podcast . Here is your host , chris Taitro . Well greetings everyone . Welcome to this week's Hometown Hero Outdoors podcast . I'm Phil Ewert , media producer for HHO , filling in the host chair for this week's podcast . I'm joined this week by our special guest , jason Stone , retired Navy chief , as well as one of our board members for Hometown Hero Outdoors , andy Graff . Welcome everyone and thanks for joining us tonight . Guys , glad to be here .
Speaker 2Thanks for having me .
Speaker 1Absolutely , so I'm going to read through some of Jason's bio to get us started tonight . There's a lot going on here . This guy's lived a full life , and so I'll just get to reading it . Jason is a retired Navy chief with 20 years , 10 months and 20 days of submarine service under his belt . He worked in commercial nuclear power since 2009 , starting off as an instructor at the Monticello Nuclear Plant in Minnesota , and it is now in Washington state where he works in the initial license class supervisor as excuse me , the initial class supervisor at the Columbia Generating Station . He also teaches thermodynamic courses as an adjunct instructor at the local college .
Speaker 1Jason has his Bachelor of Science in Nuclear Engineering Technology and a Masters of English and Creative Writing . He has a passion for learning and teaching . He got his general class Amateur Radio License in 2007 . His pilot license in January 2008 . He loves to write stories , make leather bags and wallets , builds fishing poles , helps people learn how to shoot better and loves board games .
Speaker 1I don't know how you have time , to be honest . Recently , though , jason started his own podcast called Prostate Cancer to Road to Recovery , documenting his journey with recent Stage 4 Advanced Prostate Cancer Diagnosis . So welcome , jason . Very happy to have you on the Hometown Hero Outdoors podcast and to get a little bit of your story . I met Jason , I want to say about 2011 , when we used to be next door neighbors , jason and I lived next door to each other in Big Lake , minnesota . Over the years we went shooting together , spent a few nights around the bonfire , enjoying some cigars , maybe even a little scotch now , and then Jason moved from Minnesota in 2018 . We've stayed in contact , so welcome Jason . I'd like to start us out tonight Having you tell us about your military service , why you chose to join the military , specifically the Navy , and then walk us through your military career , if you will .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , Thanks , Phil , I'd love to . I always wanted to fly and so and I had a girlfriend in high school I grew up in Pocatello , Idaho . I went to Pocke High School for anybody in Idaho watching and I wanted to join the Air Force , and so that's all . I just knew my entire life that's what I was going to do . I was going to join the Air Force and fly , and I remember going to the recruiting office there at the mall in Pocatello .
Speaker 2The Air Force office was closed and I was walking back down the hall in this guy in a white uniform with a big smile on his face . He said how can I help you ? I said I don't think you can , so I'm trying to join the Air Force . And he said why do you want to join the Air Force ? I said well , I want to fly , he goes . Well , why would you want to join the Air Force ? I got really confused at that point . I was 17 years old . He started telling me stuff about well , the Navy has better pilots , the Navy has more planes , and this and that , and then he had me take this test . And then he had me take another test . The next thing I knew I joined the Go Submarines . I'm not quite sure how that happened .
Speaker 3A little bit opposite there Above water , below water , yeah .
Speaker 2You had your own experience with recruiters too .
Speaker 3Oh , absolutely . I know they can swindle you pretty good .
Speaker 2Yep , Sometimes you don't exactly know what you're getting in for . That's kind of how I started off , and that didn't necessarily know what I wanted to do other than fly . And then , once my career started in the Navy , I just kind of went along for the ride . They started saying stuff like well , in order to fly , you got to be an officer . In order to be an officer , there's better programs to be an officer . And so I kind of bit the whole thing cook line and sinker . Oddly enough , I later in my career ended up going to be a recruiter . I tried not to be that guy .
Speaker 3So what was your rate in the Navy ? What job did you choose ?
Speaker 2I was a nuclear machinist mate so I was the back aft on the on the nuke subs . It was a . It was a fun ride I had . I had a good time doing that . I did six and a half years on my first submarine , the USS Ohio . I did three years of recruiting duty down in San Diego and then I went up to , went out to Hawaii and I spent the rest of my career in Hawaii and that was awesome . Wow , I did back to back sea tours on with back to back Westpacks . I started off on the USS Tucson and then I went to the USS Chicago . I loved being a sea . I loved being on submarine . I loved being out there fixing stuff . I loved the mission and so I really got to do six years straight of sea duty and then I went to the Pearl .
Speaker 2Harbor Naval Shipyard there in Hawaii and I was able to dial it down a little bit . I was achieved by that point and I was able to kind of coast a little bit better , Teach a couple of my first classes to how to run the shop . I ran nuclear test equipment there in Hawaii and let them kind of take things and I got to go do other things best around in the in the chief's mess and went and got my pilot license . That was a . That was a bucket list item for my whole life and I was like I'm not leaving Hawaii till I do that . So yeah , I had a good time .
Speaker 2I got involved in emergency amateur radio clubs , so EARC out in Hawaii . That was a lot of fun . It was really interesting to get it involved and participating in drills with the community , with setting up the Oahu Races , r-e-c-e-s , getting involved in emergency communications , having a ham radio set up , and yeah , that was a lot of fun . I had a lot , had a good time in Hawaii . If they had a nuclear reactor I'd live there forever .
Speaker 3Yeah , I've been to Hawaii a couple of times , just mostly just tourism . But yeah , it's , it's a nice place . I knew a bunch of sailors that were living in station out there , Because Nick Tams Pack , which I'm sure you've heard about , that's Naval Communications telework area master station , if I believe it's been a few years . Okay , and pack and Pacific . So I did , I did voice and data comms on my ship . My job was an IT but I was a radio man Right in the radio shack . So yeah , when you talk about you know the ham radios and stuff , it's kind of up my alley . It's kind of a little experience in that . But so yeah , I totally get it . Yet Nick Tams Pack there in Hawaii is a very big station for guys with my rate . So I know a lot of friends that went there and loved it .
Speaker 2So did you get your radio license outside ?
Speaker 3I didn't . It's funny you say that . So I had a family member that was a chief of the Navy as well and he has his license and he's out near Virginia and he always is like you got to get it ? You could get it . I probably could , because he wants to communicate with me . He's always shown me his setups and his antennas and all this stuff . I totally respect it , but you know , I just unfortunately don't have enough time to do that .
Speaker 2My motto is you can never have too many hobbies Exactly .
Speaker 3Exactly .
Speaker 1So , jason , I want to reel you back just a little bit for some of our listeners who , like myself , are not super familiar with the Navy . You mentioned , I think , three different subs that you were on . What was the difference between those subs ? Or were they all very similar ? Besides being nuclear , was there ? I mean size difference , capacity , mission style , I mean , what can you tell us about the difference in the ships ?
Speaker 3Yes tall .
Speaker 2The difference is about 200 feet in length and a 10 feet diameter .
So the first boat I was on the Ohio up out of Bangor , washington , was a missile boat . That was a ballistic missile submarine . They carried 24 ICBMs and we had about over a dozen of those boats on the east and west coast total at the time a dozen and a half and our goal was to go out , submerge and hide from the world for two to three months at a time , and so it was a pretty slow , easy going mission . We just go out , we submerge . It was a big old heavy boat and 18,000 tons submerged displacement and they just would go out and we'd train and run drills and , yeah , it was a pretty easy life .
Speaker 2They call it the hotel of submarines . What's interesting about those with 24 ICBMs ? Each ICBM has multiple warheads on it , and so if that submarine , that one single submarine , went out in the middle of the ocean , surfaced and declared itself its own country , it would be the third most powerful nuclear-armed country in the world Just one of those , so only behind the United States . And so union .
Speaker 1That's a little crazy , it is right .
Speaker 2And to have more than a dozen of those running around .
Speaker 1So obviously , nuclear is actually very safe . It's very stable until it is set off , and that's also the same for power plants . They're incredibly safe until they're not , until they're not accurate . And but did that ever cross your mind ? That you're basically , you know , sleeping feet away from 12 Nagasaki sized or larger bombs ?
Speaker 2Well , I mean it does at first , but the whole trick to being in the Navy , out to sea , is stay busy . You stay busy and you're trying to find something to do all the time and there's if you have any downtime , you're . You're feeling it on your own . I think that's kind of where my drive to constantly be doing something comes from . If I'm not busy in training , if I'm not cleaning , if I'm not fixing a valve , if I'm not troubleshooting some weird noise in a turbine generator , then I'm going to be reading , I'm going to be doing laundry , I'm going to be doing something I'm going to be doing , and so that .
Speaker 2And on a submarine you get , you're on a different schedule because we don't have the benefit of sunlight , daylight , right . So that's what governs your sleep time . On target sailors , no offense , and you know , as is a regular human being right now on land , that's what our day is based on . On the submarine it's not . So your body is naturally acclimated with lack of sunlight , to about an 18 hour day . So we would spend six hours on watch doing our , doing our job , taking logs , running equipment , and we'd spend six hours after watch , doing either training or after watch cleanup or maintenance or something like that .
Speaker 2And then , as long as there wasn't something else going on , we got six hours to ourselves to do laundry or shower , eat stuff like that , and so you generally get about four hours of sleep , three and a half four hours of sleep every eight out of every 18 hour rotation , and you get more . It feels like more days of the week go by . So it's it's kind of weird when you're underwater and deprived of sunlight .
Speaker 1Yeah . So , andy , how does that compare to being on a , on a carrier ? I mean , obviously you're , you see the sunlight , but I mean , does your ? Work ship similar .
Speaker 3Yeah , so what we did . So I worked nights , I was the night supervisor , I was the communication watch officer and basically our job , like we worked 12 hour shifts but then we'd have overlap and then when I was on watch , I was on watch 12 hours . I didn't get the free time , I didn't get the extra time for me it was I was the CWO , so I was in charge of all voice and data comms coming on off and on the ship . So it was a big job . You know , captain had a direct line to our shop . If there was ever an issue he'd call us directly because you know , obviously every everything comes out of our ship .
Speaker 3So we had an outage . It was a big deal but we would basically work . I'd work . I think it was like 6 pm to 6 am . I was my shift every day , but that was because I was stationed over in Japan and that that area , that was pretty much daytime in the United States . And then after that we'd have cleaning stations , which would be we do .
Speaker 3The whole ship was shut down operations for an hour unless we're doing real world stuff and we would clean . It called XO's happy hour , the whole ship . So it's 5000 sailors on a ship , 5000 people cleaning , and you know what it does get dirty . You wouldn't think it does , it sure does . So we do that . And then if we had a general quarters or drill training as a team , it would go basically from like seven to 10 , 11 . So now it's almost noon and you're ready , you're trying to get some food and I got to hit the rack and go right back at it .
Speaker 3So , and especially with my job , we had some , a lot of stuff we had to do before work . As far as , like , taking over the watch , because we do 12 hour watch rotations , sure , but yeah , so I would say we were right about that 16 hour day schedule . They try to give us eight hours off , but it never , never really Cue me . But when I worked nights I , like you , never saw the daylight .
Speaker 3I worked in a space . There's no windows . We were a TPI space , which means two person integrity , so I mean it wasn't free in and out , it was very who's coming in here we have an authorized list of who could be in the space . So there's no windows , there's no open doors , nothing , so very well secured . Once I sat down , I pretty much didn't leave for the day unless I had to make a quick head call , so it was kind of tough . I always like after my third deployment I figured out all my snacks . I needed to make it through Because otherwise I'm sending people down to the ship store . Because the carrier did have the benefit of Razz's , which is replenishment at sea . We did have a ship store that was operational but unlike you know , you sub guys you get down there and you may not get a Razz for a minute . So I give you respect there .
Speaker 1I didn't serve in the military . I was in law enforcement and I worked overnight , so I know what that's like , but I don't think I would have been cut out for being above or below the water , other than when I take my pontoon out fishing . So I want to change gears here a little bit . And , jason , you started . After your service , you went and started working in new plants . How did that come about ?
Speaker 2Well , once again , I ended up doing something I didn't want her to do . I was going to be an operator out in Idaho and I interviewed for a job . It was a perfect job .
Speaker 2I wanted to get back home and they said yeah , we're going to send you an offer letter . It might take a couple of weeks . Hr's doing some restructuring . I was like , okay , awesome . They said we want to hire you , we want to hire you . All right , perfect . This is 2009 .
Speaker 2The whole situation with getting jobs and stuff was pretty rough at that time Money and housing crisis and all that . So I was excited that I was going to come out of the Navy at that time with something . And a couple of weeks went by and I called them back , didn't have an offer , and they said , oh , just give it a couple more weeks . And this turned into a thing . And so a couple of months went by and I called a recruiter and I said , hey , I'm starting to get nervous , I'm getting cold feet .
Speaker 2I says I want to be an operator . I don't necessarily have to be around nuclear power , I'm just looking for a job where I'm turning wrenches . That's what I want to do . And she said , well , I've got this instructor job in Minnesota . I said there's two things wrong with that . And she said , well , call me back next week . And I called her back and then that turned into a thing and so this went on . We tag teamed for a few weeks , and then I finally said , hey , how big of a jerk would I be if I went and did this interview at this place I don't want to live to do on a job I don't want to do .
Speaker 2And she says , no , if you haven't had any job interviews , you should be doing this . You need the experience . And I'm like , oh , that's interesting , are they paying ? And then she said , yeah , they'll fly you from Hawaii out to Minnesota . I was like , heck , yeah . So I flew out and I should have seen , I should have thought about this , right , I didn't realize at the time how I should be prepared , what I should do to be prepared for this interview for an instructor job . So I'm sitting there , we're waiting on one of the supervisors to come in , and the manager is chatting with me and he says well , what are you gonna present today ? I said about what he said well , I mean , you're hiring for an instructor job . What are you gonna teach us ? Well , what do you wanna know ? Completely not prepared , right ?
Speaker 2And he sat back , crossed his arms , started saying things like well , you're not ready for this , blah , blah , blah . At that moment I started fighting for a job I didn't want , in a place I didn't wanna live . I'm like , holy crap , I failed this job interview and it hasn't even started . And so I started asking some questions and he was very much like I was like what does it have to be about ? Does it have to be technicals ? Does it have to be nuclear ? Do I need a PowerPoint ? And he just kept not answering them and saying you don't wanna do this , you don't wanna do this , which makes sense , except that I had nothing to lose . So I was gonna do it . It didn't matter , I was gonna do this interview . And so he finally gave in . There was a whiteboard behind me in his office . I said as long as I can just use the whiteboard and start talking , I'm ready to go . And he's like okay , he says I'm not gonna give you another chance . This is it . I said , all right .
Speaker 2So I had just gotten my pilot license a year before , and so I had a bunch of stuff fresh in my head still and I knew that I was talking to nuclear people and so people that had degrees , engineering degrees even and so I didn't wanna hit the surface stuff , the stuff that you might learn pick up in high school or something . So I went for all the little nuggets of random things why is the engine offset so many degrees ? Why , how does the propeller rotation direction impact all this stuff , and what is ground effect ? And all these different little things . And so I started talking . I was drawing diagrams on the board behind me and talking through stuff and they started asking questions and all I had to do was present for 20 minutes so they could see whether or not I could teach , and I've never taught this is my first time really teaching , right , as I was a knuckle-dragger .
Speaker 2I was turning wrenches in the engine room and he's up there , they're asking me questions and they're asking me questions and finally he goes . He looked at his watch and he said , holy crap . He says we have to stop the interview . I panicked and he looked at the other guy and said well , we missed the other interview . So apparently they were supposed to . They missed an interview because I was teaching and they just got sucked right up into it . So we went for two and a half hours when oh , oh , oh .
Speaker 3Supposed to be 20 minutes , 20 minutes , oh jeez , I went two and a half hours .
Speaker 1That's crazy .
Speaker 2And we got done with the interview and he's like well , we're gonna send you an offer there .
Speaker 3In my head .
Speaker 2I'm like , okay , I know how this goes . And he said you know , hawaii's a big place , so I know you know . Everybody gets asked why ? Oh , do you know so and so right . And it's an island with so many tens of thousands , of millions of people . And he says but I'm gonna ask do you remember , do you know a sailor ? Cause ? We hired a guy a year ago by this name and I was like truck and I heard around the corner truck piped up and said stone . So he came out , we hugged , I had no idea he was working there . And then I heard another guy .
Speaker 2He said Mike , you know another guy was working there and another guy knew from the Navy was working there , Mike , Huh , interesting . And then we're walking to go to lunch and I hear a voice from 20 years before , pulled right out of the old memory banks . I hear this voice . I'm like that sounded like my A-School class leader from back in 1989 , 20 years ago . And they're like , well , it can't be . I'm like , well , is it ? Unless it's this guy's name I'm not throwing names out here , I don't know if I should or shouldn't , but it's this guy's name and I'm like , well , that's our ops director . I'm like , oh yeah , I knew him . And so I suddenly all these people I knew , and yeah , so I thought about
it . I went home and made a couple calls and decided you know what , maybe there's something to this . It was six months without an offer letter from Idaho . It had gone six months now . So I finally just took the hint and said I guess I'm not supposed to be doing that . I'm supposed to move to Big Lake , Minnesota , to be Phil's neighbor .
Speaker 1That you know what that's so funny about that story Cause I obviously , as long as I've known you , I haven't heard that entire story Is that I love the part where you said you were fighting for a job you didn't want in a place you didn't want to move , and then , you ended up winning the job . That's great . So , and obviously because you taught and you are an instructor , I assume that's how you then transitioned into teaching college classes .
Speaker 2Yeah , I got out here and now I was . I went from teaching out there in Minnesota to teaching out here and they have this like a pipeline program at the community college , the Columbia Basin College here , a nuclear technology pipeline for the community college . So kids coming out of high school can join in on these , take these classes and learn about the nuclear power plant . They can learn about advanced thermodynamics , facility components , all these different things , and they're taught by people that work in the industry . The Hanford Reservation out here is a huge area . We have PNL labs , we have what they call the tank farms , we've got the VIT plant , we've got the where I work , the Columbia Generating Station Nuclear Power Plant . There was the old test reactor that was out here . There's all kinds of stuff and $8 billion a year gets poured into the Hanford Reservation .
Speaker 2So there's tons of technology , tons of opportunities , tons of stuff going on out there and all these kids in the area are like well , I've heard there's good jobs , so the college has a path to get them into those jobs . And so they asked me hey , we need some help teaching one of these . And I started teaching like one night here , one night there , and then I took one whole class and then I took the next class and now I'm teaching a bunch . Like this quarter I'm teaching three classes , which is the most I've taught . It's a challenge juggling all that , but making it do , making do .
Speaker 1Yeah , well , as you say , juggling , you said at the beginning that you can't , you believe you can't have enough hobbies , and I listed a few of yours . I want to touch on one of them which I think is pretty unique , and that's your writing hobby . Oh , okay , and so you , one of the times that you and I had spoken privately previous to this , you were working on writing some scripts for some things , and so how is that going ? What are you writing ?
Speaker 2So writing the script we talked about back then . I did finish and I did send it off to some I don't know , ink something or other , the ink farm or whatever these places where you can get movie scripts read , and it got a little bit of interest , but nobody . It was about a situation that happened on the Arsak rain where we ended up leaving a sailor in Korea and cause he got arrested .
Speaker 2And it was this whole drama thing and . But if you look at it from a production standpoint , hollywood doesn't want to make another big submarine Navy movie where there might be some bad light cast on the Navy right . There's this whole scandal out there called the Leonard . Oh , that was a fat Leonard , fat Leonard , the fat Leonard scandal .
Speaker 3My CO has mentioned that specifically in that , so I was fully involved in fat Leonard . Ouch yeah , if you haven't .
Speaker 2That's worth an interesting read . If you go to the Wikipedia page . So this was right in the middle of that time and there was some the reports from the sailor after he finally got out and released . There was a lot of corruption going on and bribery and some weird things he reported from his time in Korea and so I put this whole screenplay together about that .
Speaker 1But of course Hollywood's not going to make that , so well , but a unique experience that you wrote a screenplay after going through your masters in writing . I think that's interesting .
Speaker 2It was fun . I do a lot of short stories . I'm putting together a collection of short stories right now , my most recent story I actually started this . So , as you know the viewers may not know yet I've got a prostate cancer and so I just got diagnosed back in June , on June 27th , and within days of that I was doing this kind of mental holy crap is , if you go to Google and put in the you know stage four , bravo , aggressive , it's aggressive , it's metastasized . Already it's spread to my spine . You put those things into Google , it doesn't give you very positive outlooks .
Speaker 1Dr Google , you will die of a splinter .
Speaker 2Yep . So I'm like holy crap , if I've got a year , what am I going to do ? What do I really want to do if I've got a year ? And one of the things that came out of that self-evaluation was writing a story about my experience with cancer . So I started a story called the Tumor and I started it . It's a three-part story and I did the first two parts before I started my actual treatment , because there's a long time from diagnosis to treatment .
Speaker 2I was officially diagnosed June 27th of this year and I took my first pills for my first treatment on August 11th . Yeah , it's a scary weight too , when they tell you it's aggressive and then they make you wait . That's not fun .
Speaker 1And since we've now talked about the cancer , how did you obviously we'll talk later about how people can listen to your podcast series that you have , which is very , very informative about your journey , but for our audience , tell us about that initial diagnosis , how that happened , how you found out , and let's go from there .
Speaker 2So they put you in a room , they have you drop your pants , you're bend it over , not that You're talking about like , how did I find out I had ?
Speaker 1I know about the test Us old guys . I don't know if Andy's had to have this .
Speaker 2Not yet .
Speaker 1But yeah , we've got the old oil check .
Speaker 2Yeah , well , that's not even the diagnosis , that's still just checking symptoms , right ? The diagnosis is actually worse because it's a biopsy . They take core samples from your prostate and they go in through the same outdoor oh boy , through the wall into the prostate . They take 12 core samples . Feels like you're getting stapled right in the center of your core . But yeah , what sent me to the doctor is I was , I'm heavy guy , I'm a big guy , I'm six foot four , I'm really heavy and I'm trying to get back on the bike , trying to lose some weight , and I was just had some discomfort down there and I had a doctor visit coming up . So I mentioned it to the doctor visit and she's like well , let's do a PSA test . So she drew a PSA test and it came back just a little above four and she's like , well , that could be an infection or something .
Speaker 2So she says , let's wait a little while I'll give you , I'll put you on an antibiotic .
Speaker 2And so I went on an antibiotic for five weeks to prove flaxen or something , and came back in the sixth week , did another test and it came back six . And I was like , hmm , all right , now , what doc ? She's like , well , I'm going to refer you to a urologist . And throughout that waiting time things started to get more uncomfortable down there and so I had our time sitting . You know , I started to notice changes in how hard it was to pee , how often I was going , stuff like that . And the urologist he got me and he said , ok , well , let's do another PSA test . And I'm like , holy crap . So we did another one and it came back even higher . It was in the upper sixes , and he's like , all right , now it's time for the biopsy and that's where they go in and they do the 12 core samples .
Speaker 1We'll return to the podcast in just a moment , but first hometown hero outdoors would like to thank the following companies that support HHO and our mission Relentless Defender , apparel and Gear , silencer , central Suppressors , best Defense Armory and Range in Forest Lake , minnesota , and Tito's Handmade Vodka . We thank them for their support . Now back to our podcast .
Speaker 2But , looking back , what I found is those symptoms I was having . I was rationalizing as one . I'm , at the time , 52 years old . I'm starting to get older . I'm starting to . I'm a supervisor of training , so I'm more sedentary now than I've ever been , and so I'm sitting on my butt . I've put on some weight . This is what's going to happen . This is what happens and this is what it feels like , and so I didn't get checked out earlier .
And the really sad thing about it , looking back , is back in 2017 , I had a really good friend there in Monticello . He lived in Elk River , but we worked together at the Monticello plant . He passed away from prostate cancer . He found out when it was really late and they went after it really super aggressively . But there was just no hope for him and a bunch of us went and immediately got our PSAs tested .
Speaker 2So PSA is prostate specific antigens and what that is is the blood tests , All it is . They draw some blood and they check for these antigens in your blood and it says that there's all that tells you is there's something going on with your prostate , because if there's any trauma to your prostate whether it's cancer or an infection , or you got kicked or you're riding a bike , those levels go up . They release these antigens into your blood stream , and so mine came back 1.59 . Now a normal male in their 40s at the time should have been 0.6 to 0.8 . But before 2019 , the standard was if it's below 4.0 , they just tell you you're within range and you know , that's it . They don't tell you to monitor it . They don't tell you hey , it's slightly elevated , so you should do this every year . They didn't tell me anything .
Speaker 1So in 2017 , you were possibly already slightly elevated Yep .
Speaker 2I likely had this prostate cancer growing since through 2017 .
Speaker 2Wow , and because the doctor said , well , it's less than four , you're good to go . And that's what I want . One of the things I want to make sure biological males 40 years or older , every year , every September September prostate cancer awareness month go get your PSA tested , because what matters is the trend . Some men have PSAs that are normally 2 , 3 , 4 , even . I know a guy in the prostate cancer support group on Facebook who's six . His he doesn't have cancer , he's fine , and his PSA is just six point something .
Speaker 2And so what's important is you do more than one test and you track that trend , and it's good to do that , like every year , every September , and as soon as it starts going up , you get with the urologist , you check it . Now , you're checking it every month and you're treating it before it breaks out of the prostate . Because what's happened since , from 2017 to now , is it's been growing , what's likely been growing , and eventually it just turned the corner and became aggressive , and that's where I started to have the symptoms . It broke out of the prostate , it's formed a primary , another tumor on my spine , on my L1 vertebrae , and once that happens , the prognosis changes significantly . In fact , if you catch it while your PSA is a little . While it's still contained in the prostate it's almost 100% curing , and once it breaks out of the prostate it's your palliative , not curative . And that's scary . I forgot what question I was answering . I started babbling there for a bit .
Speaker 1No , no , you're good . I wanted to make a comment that because you first told me about all this going on , I believe in August . Initially , I had a doctor visit coming up to get reevaluated for my life insurance and they did a PSA test and that was the first thing I checked and luckily , like I mentioned to you in a private conversation , is that mine was like 0.4 or 5 , which is great .
Speaker 1It's really low and very , very happy to see that . But I tell you what it was definitely top of mind after our conversation and listening to what you've been going through , and so that's definitely something that I've been preaching as well as you just mentioned , that biological males above the age of 40 need to get it checked , and especially when you look at , as you also mentioned , that all men at some point , regardless of if they ever die of it or not , will probably have prostate cancer and most men don't die of it but will probably get it somehow before they die .
Speaker 1Yeah , and so I found that very interesting , and so it does keep it more top of mind , and so let's talk then about so , once you found out and , as you said , it metastasized into your L1 , what was that like ? I mean , you were waiting for treatment . What was that period of time like where you were between the diagnosis and a treatment plan ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I was scared , I was worried . I started having dialogue at work like , hey , I don't know what's going to happen , I don't know what this looks like in the coming months . I started looking at what is my option to take some time off . Fortunately , I've got a really good job here and they let me take a couple months off . I'm actually going back to work tomorrow morning After two months off . I've been off since August 20 , 8 , 7 , 6 , 5 , or 4th . August 24 was my last day . I'm going back tomorrow . So because my radiation treatment's done , and yeah that that time is .
Speaker 2That waiting really sucks , Because now it's now you know . Now you know you've got a tumor or multiple tumors , in my case growing and it's aggressive and they're they're working on scheduling this and they're scheduling that .
Speaker 2You're waiting for a call from this person and a call from that person and nothing seems to be happening fast enough . I wanted to just go straight in the next day and get zapped . I just chewed me with some radiation . I don't care , I'll give me some chemo pills , I'll take all of them . I wanted , I want to start dealing with this right away , and it was tough waiting .
Speaker 2So I channeled and that's where that short story I wrote the tumor . That's where that came from , as I started channeling all that frustration and fear into , because that's why , that's why I write . I write for emotional reasons , it's an outlet for me , it's therapeutic , and so is in talking about this . So that's also where so I was working on the short story and then I also had this idea of I'm going to start telling people . I want to let people know , because when I turned 40 , nobody handed me a book and said here's , here's what you need to know about your prostate and how to , what to look for and what to check for and what it means . Yeah , there's , there's nothing out there . You know , my dad didn't know because he didn't experience any issues . I have an uncle that just went through prostate cancer or two years ago , and just you know people don't talk about it's an embarrassing thing to talk about , for one sure .
Speaker 2Fortunately I was in the Navy on submarine so I have no Boundaries . I'll tell anybody anything . So I want to buy up ?
Speaker 1see , I'll tell you so I want to I want to bring that up as Giant some light on what is possibly one of the elephants in the room . That was my first initial thought when I first found out you worked on a nuclear submarine . You also worked at a nuclear plant , and so I already know the answer to this question . But I want you to answer is there a connection ?
Speaker 2So there's no way to know , right ? I don't think there is . We are really super safe . Andy will tell you . You probably were a TLD on so .
Speaker 3I only had to wear one when I went into the Spaces , but , yes , we were issued them . If we were ever and , like they said , a commercial flight gives you more radiation , then what connects to the radio or the reactor ?
Speaker 2so , yeah , so I'm not concerned that that was what my Source was . I did have a week I spent in Abu Dhabi . That apparently was near a burn pit when it was active , and there's a Recent that's called the packed act . Va just came out with the packed act and they finally admitted the exposure to the air over in the Middle East during certain times is what they call a presumed condition for some cancers , and so Maybe that's it . I don't know , and that's the scary things . I'll never know .
Speaker 2What I do know is we , my doctor's really good , my radiation oncologist . He says , hey , let's find out that we can do this genetic test , find out number one if it's genetic , because that changes our course of treatment , and then , if it's not , we can still look at some genetic markers and maybe there's , there's some treatments that are better for some genetic markers . And so we did that . There was nothing special about my prostate cancer . It was just naturally occurring . It wasn't genetic , it's not family-based it's . It's just it just happened for some reason . So Externally caused , likely , but why I don't know .
Speaker 2But there's , we do so much , we had , we take so many precautions at work at the nuclear power plant and the Navy I got . Like Andy said , I got less radiation Underway on a submarine . Then my family did sitting in a , you know , sitting in the house in Hawaii on Volcanic lava , lava beds , concrete houses on near asphalt roadways all these things admit radio . You know , they have radioactive decay from the minerals at them , yep , and so now I don't think that was it , but I'll never know what I did do . I'm gonna , you know , you the right . What you should do is make the VA figure out . If they can figure out what it was , yeah , so I did submit a claim . I think the most telling thing is that week I spent in Abu Dhabi . So I had a little write-up on that and we'll see . We'll see what they say If they make a service connection grade . If they don't , then I'll just keep not knowing .
Speaker 1Now you mentioned that you just finished your treatments , so what's next ?
Speaker 2well , sort of . So I'm on two different treatments . I was supposed to be on three . So when we did our the CT scans , they said you got it's in your prostate . It looks like it's broken out of your prostate in the local area and you've got this tumor on the L1 and you have something showing up , something lit up on the scan on your 11th rib on your left side . I'm like holy crap . So what we want to do is Androgen deprivation therapy , adt , along with radiation therapy , along with chemo . I'm like so what's the timeline ? Oh , all three all at once . Like holy crap . So . But before my radiation oncologist , dr Brian Luinda fantastic doctor out here he said before we do all that , let's do one more scan . And it's a highly specialized , very expensive scan . The Navy covered , the VA covered it , fortunately , and it's called a PSMA PET scan and if it doesn't show up on that , it's not cancer . And so my rib didn't light up . So it was just my L1 and just the prostate . And so he said with that let's skip the chemo , let's just do the ADT and the radiation therapy . So I did 28 doses of radiation to my prostate and then I did five doses of radiation to my spine and Then that
was all .
Speaker 2While I'm doing ADT , this , these drugs , and it's two drugs . It's called Zytiga and Lupron . So I get a Lupron shot once every three months . I'm two months into my . I got my first shot on August 21st and I took my first Zytiga pills on August 11th . And I do the pills every day . I do a thousand milligrams of Zytiga every day and then every three months I'll get this Lupron shot and that's . I'll be on that for at least a year . I think that's the worst part of all the treatments . Radiation treatment great , kill the cancer .
Speaker 2But the ADT , you know , because it's temporary , there's a start date , there's an end date and you're done with it . Adt is different . This is it's a little emotional for me , because you know when they give , when they castrate chemically , castrate like pedophiles and Rapists , they give them two drugs . They give them Zytiga and Lupron . So yeah , for them it's permanent . They have to take it the rest of their life , except that eventually your body figures out how to avoid it , and so your body . And so the reason you're doing those is prostate cancer is a hormone-fueled cancer .
Speaker 2It feeds off of testosterone . So if you know men who have low testosterone , right . That's a thing where you feel the fatigue and lethargic all the time . You don't have any energy , no motivation , your mood goes through the floor , you just feel like garbage and don't feel like doing anything and you feel like crying all the time .
Speaker 2And that's what they're going for with this is , they're trying to take my testosterone down to zero , and so I'm on that .
Speaker 2My PSA went from 10 at the last test to Because they did one right before I did the start of the treatment down to zero , down to four and then down to zero point eight , and I will get another test for about another three weeks , which is I'm in that fear phase again , like I don't actually know if this radiation therapy worked .
Speaker 2We're not going to do a scan and find out . All we're going to do is monitor my testosterone to make sure it stays at zero , and we're going to do that for another eight or ten months and then they'll look at my blood work and if I'm a candidate for coming off , they might wean me off of the adT , see if my testosterone comes back up and Then watch my PSA levels . So , as your testosterone comes back up , it should . Mine was 400 and something before all this started so pretty healthy for 50 something years old , not too bad and it was down to zero . Now it's , it's undetectable and so should start going back up . And as it goes up , my PSA is going to come back up . But my PSA should come up to like point six , point eight , maybe one point oh , and then stabilize and as long as my Testosterone rises to normal levels Well , almost normal .
Speaker 2It'll never go back to completely normal . My , but my , my PSA stays low , then that's showing that there's no active cancer . That's growing . As soon as I have active cancer , it's growing , my PSA will start to rise again , and so I'm just going to be . The rest of my life will be monitoring , holding my breath between PSA tests , mm-hmm .
Speaker 1So you obviously started a podcast and you wanted to talk about it , and I know part of the reason you wanted to talk about it was it was therapeutic for you . You want to tell us about your podcast , how you started that , why you started that and how it's going and where people can catch it .
Speaker 2Yeah , so I was when the pandemic hit . I was teaching classes at the college and the pandemic hit , and then I had to start teaching from home . So I had to get a microphone , which I'm not using , but I had to get a microphone . I had to get a camera and a little setup . So I just set up a little something here in my craft room where I do my leather work and five million other hobbies , and so I had all this gear sitting around and this diagnosis hit and I was telling some people about it and I was .
Speaker 2It was kind of a roller coaster of how I felt each day I'm dealing with it a lot better now and I can just talk through it normally , but at the time it was a little tough to talk through and so I thought you know what ? I just need to record this . I need to record what I need to sit down and just say it and record it . And I did and I turned it into episode one and it's a prostate cancer road to recovery . It's on YouTube , it's on Spotify , it's on iHeartRadio , Apple , it's on all the normal podcast stuff , but I primarily publish for YouTube .
Speaker 3And .
Speaker 2I've done . You know that first one's just kind of . I got a lot of good engagement , a lot of good feedback and I met a couple new people Harry Ian from Australia , and he's two years ahead of me . He's been , he's going through this journey and he just last month just eased off . They kept him on the ADT for two years , so they just eased him off last month and so he's climbing back up and he's holding his breath , hoping his PSA stays low , and so he and I start chatting . And then I just met a bunch of good people through this and so I did another episode and then another , and then I said , ok , I've had this little plan on that . When I sat down and did that first one , I was like , if I'm going to do this , what is my goal , what am I going to try and talk about ? And I realized it was too much for one video , so that's why I decided to break it up into a podcast . There's still a bunch of people I want to talk to .
Speaker 2My sister-in-law went through breast cancer several years ago and prostate cancer and breast cancer are very similar because they're both hormone-fueled cancers and so there's a lot of similarities in what you do in the treatment and she was able to do a different treatment . She was able to do the surgery , and so I want to get her on there and do an interview . My brother had cancer on his neck . We'll talk about that . I just had an interview Friday , two days ago , with a friend from work who went through prostate cancer 12 years ago and then , because of my diagnosis , he was like you know what ? I haven't checked my PSA levels . They removed his prostate 12 years ago , but that doesn't mean that you will always get a recurrence . So that's what sucks about prostate cancer is you get it and you're cured , but you're cured for so long until you get it again , because all it needs is one cell , one prostate cell , not scraped off of the bottom of your bladder or something . And sure enough , he went and got his PSA tested and it was slightly elevated again .
Speaker 3So they waited .
Speaker 2They did another test and they waited . They did another test and then they were referring to urologist and they're like yep you have cancer again .
Speaker 2And so he's going through this again and he wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been doing this . So a lot of people are getting their blood checked . A lot of people are getting their PSA tested . Most of them are good stories , like yours . Most of them are coming back .
Speaker 2I'm getting lots of texts saying , hey , it came out at 0.8 . Hey , got it back , it's 0.6 . And then this one you know , he just came back higher . So he's going to deal with . He's got to decide whether he can do radiation , whether he's going to do ADT , whether he can do both . But once again he's facing this and it just sucks . So I like doing this . I've done , was he ? I think this was episode nine or episode 10 . I've done nine or 10 episodes so far and we're going through a gambit of not just my treatment and my diagnosis , but what are the other options and why would somebody choose those ? I've got an episode I'm just trying to schedule with my doctor . I want to sit down with my radiation oncologist and get some right from the doctor info for people to . You know , this is what you know , these are the questions people are asking and have him answer those . I think that'll be good .
Speaker 2So I think overall , it's really good .
Speaker 1No , it is good , and I've been listening and I've been encouraging others to listen , especially people that are in our age group . You know that it is important . There is a history of cancer in my family . I don't believe it was prostate cancer , I guess . Actually , I had a grandfather who had prostate cancer , but that's not the cancer that killed him , because it ended up in his colon , I believe , and so there was other things going on there . But it does make it again , like I mentioned before , it makes it top of mind , especially for those of us who have crossed the 50-yard line . Let's just say , and yeah , I want to thank you , jason , for what you're doing for bringing awareness to cancer .
The last thing I want to ask you about is because , obviously , the mission of Hope Town Hero Outdoors is mental health awareness , and so tell me about the mental health aspect of what you're going through and what you're doing to keep yourself in check .
Speaker 2Yeah , because I'll tell you I wasn't always doing healthy things . It's easy to just sit on the couch in the dark and think about it and keep thinking about it , and that's not good . That's not a good loop to be in , right , I have to keep myself busy , I have to go after the things , and what sucks is , once the therapy starts , the motivation to do anything just goes away . So I am constantly just forcing myself to do things that I know I used to enjoy that I'm now not enjoying as much , but when I do the podcasts and I'm meeting people and I'm seeing that it's helping , that brings some of that motivation back . I'm just fighting against .
Speaker 2I'm basically fighting against a chemical issue , a chemical balance issue with my body , where that testosterone gives us the energy and the drive and the motivation and helps us think , clearly helps our short-term memory and all that's trashed and my body's trying to re-figure out how to do things , and so you have to do things in order to allow your body to figure it out . I dug an old hobby out of the closet . I don't know how well this is gonna show up . I used to make fishing poles and so I know you did a segment recently where you had some guys on there doing some fishing poles .
Speaker 2So I'm putting together this nine-foot casting rig for my brother to do some salmon fishing .
Speaker 3There you go .
Speaker 2And yeah , it'll be double guide feet and they'll have their base wrap . So it's got this base wrap underneath the guide feet so when the pole flexes it's not scratching the graphite . It's got a nice cushion there . It'll be a high-end pole . I do the writing . Of course . I do a lot of writing . I do leatherwork . Of course I don't have it . That's the one thing I'm trying to get back into that I'm having the hardest time going getting back into . You can see a lot of my supplies and stuff here , but I do like little bags . I got just need something for I tie flies .
Speaker 1So Now you made me a really nice knife sheath for my hunting knife .
Speaker 2Oh , yeah , thank you yeah yeah , I do little sheaths for knives and this one's for a skiver . I got a couple knife sheath project requests so I'm trying to get back into doing that stuff . One of the things I'm gonna do with the fishing poles . I bought a , so light blue is the color of prostate cancer awareness , so I've got a light blue blank .
Speaker 2Once I'm done with my brothers , I'm gonna do this light blue fishing pole and it's all blue . It's gonna be everything , the threads , light blue , everything on it is all prostate cancer awareness pole . And then at work , every year we have this . We support the United Way auctions and so I'm gonna donate that and some leather goods to give away to raise some money . And then , if that goes , if I'm able to build that pole I want to . What I wanna try and do is build another one or two of those and maybe raffle them off to raise some money for prostate cancer , for an actual prostate cancer charity .
Speaker 2But we'll say I don't know . The thing is you gotta plan for things , you gotta keep things your calendar , you have to have something to look forward to , because sitting on the couch in the dark is not something to look forward to , and one of my friends reached out to me for Minnesota . He lives up there in Zimmerman and he's like . He's like Stone . I used to go fishing with him up at Lake of the Woods every May and he's like Stone , you're going fishing with me .
Speaker 3It's like I don't know if I'm gonna be he's like I don't wanna hear it .
Speaker 2you're going fishing in May . I'm like hurry . So I guess I'm coming back out to Minnesota in May All right ?
Speaker 1well , I expect to see you when you get here , you will , you will .
Speaker 3What's a good friend right there ? Absolutely .
Speaker 1Absolutely it is . We're rolling up around an hour here and so we're gonna start wrapping it up , and , as I listened to the Mike Rowe podcast , he always says this is when he lands the plane . I like that analogy . And so , andy , do you have any last questions or last words as we wrap up ?
Speaker 3tonight . No , phil , I just wanna repeat your sentiment to Jason , like thank you for what you're doing and getting this awareness out there . I don't again , I'm only 34 , but I'm getting close to that time when it's time for the oil check and all the PSA talk and I don't know anything about it and I don't know if I would be told about it . So I appreciate you spreading that awareness to me and then to your followers and the people you're meeting . So keep doing what you're doing . It's awesome work .
Speaker 2Thank you . Thank you very much . I've turned out . I've got a YouTube channel you can watch to learn all you want .
Speaker 3There we go Next subscriber right here .
Speaker 1Yeah , jason , any final words and you wanna pitch your podcast again or any other way ?
Speaker 2people are gonna hold you up If you're a biological male , 50 or 40 year old , or even go get your PSA checked . Next time you check with your doctor say , hey , I just want my PSA checked and then trend it at least every year . That's important , hugely important . It would save so many lives if you just did that once a year .
Speaker 1That's all right , well , thank you . Thank you very much , jason , thank you Andy , and from all of us here at Hometown Hero Outdoors , just a reminder again we are here for mental health awareness . If you are struggling in any way , we have members that are assist , train , applied suicide prevention training and you can call anyone at any time . If you are unable to do that , the national hotline you can call or text 988 for suicide awareness . And so with that , I am Phil Ewart , along with Andy Kraft and Jason Stone . Have a great week , everybody . We'll see you next time , take care .
Speaker 2See y'all Love y'all .
Speaker 1Thank you for listening to the Hometown Hero Outdoors podcast . For more information , visit our website at hometownherooutdoorsorg .
Speaker 3Course seal .