Jennifer Walter (00:00:01) - Hi, and welcome to the Scenic Route podcast. This is the show for building a successful and sustainable business on your terms. My name is Jen, and I'm a rebranding sociologist with a soft spot for rhubarb pie. Each week I'll strive to expand your branding, business expertise and mindset capacity. I am so excited you're here. And now, let's get into today's episode. A former celebrity personal trainer and elementary school teacher just turned her once cute side hustle into a multimillion-dollar business in just 18 months. Since leaving her teaching job in 2017, Jess has hired a team of incredible heart-centred leaders, served hundreds of clients, and helped them generate over $20 million in revenue as a result of donations and the awareness she and her company, the Digital Business Revolution, have generated. Jess was able to fund the building of a school in Ghana, Africa with Pencils of Promise. Jess has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Yahoo Finance, The Day Show Good Day, New York, The New York Post, and Shape magazine as well as good as evident through her business life and philanthropic endeavours.
Jennifer Walter (00:01:11) - Chess's mission is to cause a ripple effect and inspire change for generations to come. Making a massive impact along the way and leaving a lasting legacy beyond her singular actions. Jess, Welcome to the Scenic Route podcast. I'm so excited to have you here.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:01:30) - Jen, Thank you so much for having me. I can't wait. I love podcasting.This is literally my favourite thing.
Jennifer Walter (00:01:33) - So true. Like I'd never. I've always loved listening to podcasts forever since they were around, and I've always been like, Yeah, yeah, podcasting. It's not for me to have my own podcast. I don't know. Not so sure. Yeah, maybe not like huge imposter syndrome or whatever was going on. And sometime last year, I was like, I really should do a podcast because chatting with people and asking them all kinds of weird stuff is kind of like my love language. So I'm like, This would totally make sense. And then I asked, like, my business call, like not ask like I boxed my business coach saying like, Oh, you know what? I'm going to do a podcast.
Jennifer Walter (00:02:13) - And she's like, Yeah, I know. Okay, cool. That's awesome. Then, Yeah. And then I like boxed my like capacity energy. I don't know, spiritual culture. However, I want to call her. And she's like, Yeah, I see. That's a big that's big sacred energy for you. Yes. Like podcasting. And I'm like, okay, cool. So everyone knew. So thank you for letting me know.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:02:38) - Yeah. Late to the party.
Jennifer Walter (00:02:40) - Yeah. As always. Like, I'm not an early adopter, so. Hey. Yes, I feel like we're already, like, smack in the middle of a cool conversation, but give us, like. For anyone who is listening and doesn't know you yet. Like, can you please briefly walk us through your journey, how you started, how you got where you are today? Like what were your pivotal crossroads and big moments?
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:03:02) - Oh my gosh, I could talk forever. So buckle up. I know the easy one at the beginning.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:03:08) - You know, it's interesting when people read my bio, oftentimes, it just sounds so it's so impressive. And like this overnight success that happened, and that's not the case. So we're recording this at the beginning of January 2023, which is pretty crazy, which means that I just crossed ten years online. So nothing that you see. Thank you. Yeah, Nothing that you see, though, has happened overnight by any stretch of the imagination.
Jennifer Walter (00:03:29) - Never does.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:03:30) - Right? No. And we're up on now six years as a full-time entrepreneur since leaving my teaching job. So I'm going to take you back for just a moment to ten years ago, in 2012. Actually, I started online coaching totally by accident. I was a full-time elementary school teacher. I was a personal trainer. I actually was a personal trainer for 18 years. But I got into the coaching space accidentally because, at the time, I was doing bodybuilding competitions, and I know my coach lived in Massachusetts, and I lived at the time in New Jersey, and I was paying her through email, and she would send me my workout programs.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:04:05) - And so, at that time, I had been a trainer for probably 12 or 13 years. And so I had this light bulb moment back in 2012 of, Wow, I can email all my friends from high school and college who don't live in the same state as me, and I can offer to help train them online because they're always asking me to help train them. And I can tell.
Jennifer Walter (00:04:22) - I mean, they're asking you anyway, you're doing it anyway.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:04:25) - Yes. Yeah. So back in 2012, I was receiving checks in the mail, like actual checks in the snail mail, $79 for a month of training with me. And I never sought out to be a business owner. Honestly, I don't come from a family of entrepreneurs. I already felt like a failure because I come from a family of doctors, lawyers and accountants, and I was a teacher who had dropped out of my doctorate program.
Jennifer Walter (00:04:46) - And so some choosing as dear, I'm sure. Okay, go.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:04:50) - On. Yeah. So I just honestly was doing it twofold.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:04:53) - One, to fulfil a need, a gap that I felt in my heart like I'd get home from school at 325. My husband would get home from commuting to New York City at 9:00 at night. So I had a lot of time. Yeah. And I just, I, I felt a void. The other thing was we literally were living paycheck to paycheck. The American dream is completely house poor. And I needed to do anything that I could to make ends meet. So I was doing it for those two reasons, never thinking it was going to turn into anything. Fast forward very quickly through 2013, 1415, I got into network marketing, I got into blogging, I started selling ebooks. And again, this was just a side hustle. I call it my cute side hustle. I never had a coach. I wasn't trying to be an entrepreneur, or I wasn't. I wasn't trying to leave my job in 2016. This is really important because it was a pivotal moment. I was driving to work.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:05:41) - It was October of 2016 and I was on Route two 87in New Jersey, driving to work, drinking my coffee, listening to a podcast. You and I both back in the day, listening to a podcast. I know this man was interviewing a woman, and she was a teacher, so I'm like, listening.
Jennifer Walter (00:05:54) - Yeah, like, okay, okay. Similar.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:05:56) - Okay. Okay. She was selling jewellery on Etsy. I didn't tell you I was also doing that. I actually went to fashion school, so.
Jennifer Walter (00:06:04) - Okay, like, what did you not do online? Like back in the day when, like, online business was, like, gloriously easy?
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:06:10) - Yeah, I tried it all. I tried it all, but never to build a business, just to keep myself busy. So after I dropped out of my doctorate, I actually went to fashion school, lived on my brother's couch in New York City for a year, did the whole like, Devil Wears Prada thing for artists? Yeah, it was awful.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:06:25) - So anyway, she's selling jewellery on Etsy now. I'm perked up even more because I also made jewellery and sold it. And so he said to her, If you gave yourself one year to go all in on the jewellery company and it didn't work, what would be your worst-case scenario? What would happen? And she said, Well, I've been a teacher for a decade. I had been one for eight years when I was listening. So I've been a teacher for a decade. I'll go back and get a teaching job. I might have to go to a different district, but, like, I know I can get a job. And his answer changed my entire life. He said, Oh, how does it feel to wake up every day and live in your worst-case scenario?
Jennifer Walter (00:06:59) - What?
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:07:00) - How does it feel to wake up every day and already be living in your worst-case scenario? So I pull the car over. This is October 2016. Yeah. I would.
Jennifer Walter (00:07:07) - Like. I need to stop and hope as Starbucks smells like booze because, like, you need like you need something strong after that, right?
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:07:16) - So I'm crying.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:07:17) - I text my husband, Mike, if I say his name again, that's who he is. And I'm like, I can't do this anymore. Teaching a six-minute commute, living in a beautiful home, paycheck to paycheck like it's not my worst-case scenario, but it's definitely not my best-case scenario. And if I left and whatever I wanted to do didn't work, if I was just going to come back, then why wouldn't I just try? So that night, I went home, and we started to play with numbers. We were looking at what it would look like if we just lived off of his salary. How long can we make it? What do we have in savings? Do we have to sell the house? And just about six weeks later, right after our holiday break, I walked into my principal's office on January 2nd, 2017, and I just resigned. I walked in, and I resigned, and I had no plan. My cute side hustle was making like $300 a month. I did not.
Jennifer Walter (00:08:04) - Realize if you need, like, an extra couple of bucks to go have dinner out. Right? Right. It's not sustainable.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:08:09) - It wasn't 50,000, right? 50,000 was my teaching salary. And so, it was not replacing my income. Not even close. And I really had no plan. My only plan was to remove your ego, Check your ego. Right. Because ego is our biggest overhead. It costs us the most time, energy and money, and you might just have to do things that you think you're above. I was like 32 at the time, so I was an adult. I had a mortgage. I had multiple degrees. You might have to do things that you think you're above, and you just need to do whatever you need to do to make ends meet. Ask for help, Raise your hand, get in the room, try things. Don't be afraid to fail. Get the job that you think you're above. And that's what I did. And so when you read that, I built a multiple seven-figure business in 18 months.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:08:49) - Yeah. From the day that I quit my job, but not from the five years I had already been teetering and toying playing online.
Jennifer Walter (00:08:57) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's. That's so crucial, right? Like, you always hear the stories of, like, someone who went to, I don't know, an online course, and they had this big success, and it's like, Yeah, they did. And it helped them. But it's also because they had something already in their backpack. Yep. That was helping them. Yeah. Getting to that point, being able to receive whatever knowledge that wasn't in that course and apply it and go do it. Yeah. And that's completely different as when you're just like, Oh, guy, completely new, completely doing something completely else, which often. Right. It's not the case. Right? Like most, I don't know. Most of my clients are service providers, and they come, they, they kind of like accidentally fall into the online space, right? Like, oh, I've been writing copy forever anyway, so.
Jennifer Walter (00:09:49) - And like, or I was like at an agency and it was a copywriter. So I started, Hey, I could do this on my own, like that kind of journey. So. You're like, you already have so much experience in your back. So the whole kind of like overnight success kind of like changes anyway. Yeah, but it's. Yeah. Oh my God. I'd still kind of like it. How? Like, that's that podcast interview. Yeah, I mean, I get it. That was kind of like. PW Okay, kind of like nod want to be like living my worst nightmare or like just nod something that I be like, Hey, okay, No. Um, but then I also love that you said, okay, you went home, you kind of did the homework. You crunch the numbers, right? Because it's yes, there is so much room for listening to intuition, taking the leap, whatever, following the bliss, whatever. But kind of like being smart about it.
Jennifer Walter (00:10:49) - Yeah. And. Right. Kind of like, hey, like if I want to go all in for a year. Let's actually, like, be smart about it. So.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:11:01) - Yeah. Let me look to see if I have a safety net. How can I create a safety net? What? How big is my safety net? And I never claimed to do anything alone. I was very fortunate that my husband had a job and a salary, and we could live for a couple of months off of his salary and our savings. And you know, we didn't want to touch our savings, but it was it gave us a clear picture of what I would need to do or create and how quickly I would need to do it in order for us to feel comfortable or safe. And so what we started doing that was that was January of 2017, which I still had, you know, half of the school year left. At that point. We lived in New Jersey, and two, three, four times a week, I would take the train into New York City because we knew we were going to be moving to New York because that's where he worked.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:11:41) - And for me, I was in the fitness industry, and that was where I wanted to be, to be in the fitness industry and really grow that business. So months ahead of time, I started taking the train into New York after an entire day of work at school. You know, I'd be at school, I'd train 2 or 3 clients after school and then take the train in at 7:00 at night. I'd pay $40 to go take a class at some, like, cute little studio in New York. And then I'd take the train all the way back home by myself. It'd be ten, 11:00 at night, and I'd wake up at five in the morning to get to the gym before I went back to work. And so I sort of put in the work building relationships, showing my face, meeting people. And so when we finally moved into New York a couple of months later, the whole fitness industry, they thought I lived there. They had no idea that I had been like commuting in and testing places.
Jennifer Walter (00:12:27) - Oh my God. Yeah, yeah.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:12:28) - I had job offers left and right. Not because I'm amazing. I had job offers because I was putting myself in the room and making myself known. Yeah, because we checked the finances. Yeah, but we checked to see, like, what does this look like? And, you know, I'm not going to just sit behind the computer all day and try to launch programs. I'm going to have to pick up some shifts at a gym or train clients and get in person and network and meet people and make money. And so that's what we did.
Jennifer Walter (00:12:53) - Yeah. And that's another thing. I'm like, Oh, I'm so happy you say that, right? Like we tend to. I don't know. Or I see so many people kind of like tending to, Oh, okay, I'm going to do a course like I have knowledge I want to do. Of course. Yes. Brilliant. Like nothing against that. But I often get the impression when talking to them that they kind of see this course as like a band-aid of, like, not showing up, Right?
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:13:22) - Like or like a ticket to freedom.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:13:23) - Yes.
Jennifer Walter (00:13:24) - I take it to free or like, Oh, okay, I can do this course I can run ads. I can do like as if they're kind of like hiding behind it and. It's not really working that way, does it? No, it doesn't work that way.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:13:38) - No, it doesn't work that way at all. It's one of the biggest mistakes I see new coaches and online entrepreneurs make is that they slap together a course. First of all, they make it before they sell it, which is the number one mistake. You should not be creating anything. If you haven't sold it, you should sell it first and then go make it, which we can talk about. But okay, so we'll come back to that. But also just, yeah, creating a course and then thinking that it's just going to magically sell living on your website that no one actually goes to or putting a ton of ad money behind it like you're saying when you don't actually have proof of concept or client results or clout or authority.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:14:13) - And so now you're running ads to really kind of a dead space, and then you blame the ads and say that ads don't work, they're underperforming, True, underperforming. You might have the wrong audience dialled in. You might have the wrong messaging, you might have the wrong transformation, the wrong price point. So there are so many things that you could be missing. Where I'm a huge advocate for live coaching, at least at the beginning of any program that you put together. So I'm a I'm a veteran in the industry, right? For ten years, I still will not put a program out without running it live first. So if I want it to be an evergreen course, I'm still going to bring a coaching component in for the first round or two or 5 or 8 because I need that client feedback. I want to be in the weeds with them, having conversations about what's working, what's not, and What do you need from me? How can I better message this? How can I better launch and market this? And let me collect the testimonials and the data, and the feedback.
Jennifer Walter (00:15:05) - Free market. It's paid market research.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:15:07) - Yeah. They're actually paying you.
Jennifer Walter (00:15:09) - Exactly like that's that's the beauty of if you're doing like, even if it's just a small beta or whatever and they just paying you a couple of bucks, right? Instead of like the full and the full final VIP price, whatever, it's paid marketing. So if you're leaving that out, you're just doing your course into the void, and you have no idea what's actually happening. If people are taking the course of what people are doing with it and so on. Hey, before we kind of like I'm I absolutely want to talk about like the don't sell before you like don't make it before you sell it. Yes. Or the other way around. But before, like. And circling back, you've mentioned such an important point, and it's kind of like where also we have our ego coming in, right? Like when? We start out usually like because we know, as I've said, like we are great at writing copy, and then we're like, Oh, okay, I want to. I'm going to do this business.
Jennifer Walter (00:16:07) - And then even like, Oh, I'm kind of I can do a course on how to write your like about page Yes, you can do all those things. But it's, as you said, you don't like, you have to be. Willing to do things that you feel are below you. Yeah, because you are, I don't know, a certain age, or you have a PhD, or you have a doctorate or whatever it is like.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:16:33) - But aren't those the best leaders? I mean, when you think about like true leadership, like my brain just went to like military for some reason, when you think of true leadership, a captain, a sergeant or whomever, someone steering a boat, a captain, like what do they do? They jump in, and they do the things that maybe are below them, Right? I'm supposed to be flying the plane, but when something is going awry, I might have to jump in and now help out with something else that I wouldn't normally do. Yeah, that's leadership.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:16:59) - Yeah, that's.
Jennifer Walter (00:17:00) - Absolutely. Yeah. And similar. I mean, if someone is a real wolf nerd, they might call me out. But I once read that if a pack of wolves travels, the leader of the pack is actually the last wolf.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:17:16) - Walking? Sure.
Jennifer Walter (00:17:19) - Exactly.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:17:20) - Take that book. Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:17:21) - So they're kind of like moving past. You see there, there's no one left behind that if there is anything coming up, they're clearing the way, right? Like, I love that. So we already said our own worst enemy is our ego most of the time. So how can we bring our ego to either quiet, not quite enough for long enough for us to do the things that we feel are below us? Or how can we shift the script? How can we flip it?
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:17:50) - Yeah, ego is funny. We could talk about this a lot. So there's a lot of different variations of ego, and it's not bad. There's no good or bad. There's no such thing as good or bad.
Jennifer Walter (00:17:57) - It has a place. It has a purpose.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:17:59) - Absolutely. And most of the time, it's just trying to keep us alive because that's its job, is to keep us safe and to keep us alive. So what we want to do is we really want to lean into building the relationship with our ego. We want to fall in love with our ego. We want we want our ego to be our best friend so that we can quickly discern why she or he is showing up in that moment. Like, are you here to protect and serve and save me from something that's dangerous? Or are you here because you think something is dangerous? But really, it's not a saber-tooth tiger. It's just a new investment I'm going to make, right? Like it's just something you do.
Jennifer Walter (00:18:29) - So you say, oh, uncertainty, but it's just new. It's not uncertainty. It's not unsafe. It's just new.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:18:35) - Yeah. So an exercise that I love is to really start to learn your ego and learn yourself because it's all about self-awareness.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:18:41) - Is this visualization? I love analogies and metaphors, so I visualize like a boardroom, you know, high up in a New York City skyscraper with the big table and all the glass windows and sitting at the table, there's six, seven, eight, nine different seats at the boardroom. And it's your inner child. It's the it's the child version of yourself. It's the older version of yourself. It's your highest self. It's your not-so-highest bidder self when you're not being your best self. And all the.
Jennifer Walter (00:19:09) - Difference a little bit.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:19:11) - Yeah, right. All the different seats at the table are different versions of you. And this is your ego. This is a board meeting with your ego. So when you're coming to a place of uncertainty, of decision, of trying to listen to your own intuition, can you quiet yourself for a second? Like literally just close your eyes, take maybe three deep breaths, walk away from the room that you're in, shut the phone off, Get into a new physical environment to get yourself into a calm state once you're in a calmed central nervous system state.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:19:38) - And it's not about doing an hour and 20 minute meditation. It's just take a breath or two, close your eyes and envision this boardroom meeting and then go around and simply ask all the different versions of yourself. You know, why are you here today? What would you like to show me? What is your reason for being here? What do you want to tell me? Thank you so much for being here. I love you. I see you. I appreciate you. I'm moving on to the next version of myself. Why are you here today? What are you here to show me? What do you need from me? How can I support you? Right? Right. And you just. You sort of have this conversation with all the different versions of yourself, and you can sort of quickly start to navigate your own ego and really build a partnership like Build. My hands are clicking together like the little lobsters from friends, right? Like building a partnership with your ego. Not it's not about pushing it away, resisting it.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:20:22) - That's not going to work anyway. It's not going to work. You have to listen to him or her. She's screaming, or he's screaming at you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Jennifer Walter (00:20:30) - I love that visualization. It just reminded me of, like, I have a similar one, but with we were all driving in a car. I don't know more about the scenic route of travel, so that's probably, yeah, I approach, so it feels like it's a huge clown car, and everyone is in. So I can always be like a brain. I know you like the steering wheel, but it's time to get in the back seat now because we got to let someone else drive now. Yeah, yeah. To kind of really be like, Hey, who is calling the shots right now? Is it the brain? Is it the inner child? This is a Wounded Child. Is it like, who? And then be like, Oh, interesting. Well, thank you for driving, but I think someone else can take over now. Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:21:06) - And just be like, Really? Yeah. And it doesn't need. I mean, at the beginning, when I was really new to kind of like the whole self-empowerment or self-discovery journey, it was like, Oh, I got to make the time, you know, for like an hour-long meditation. And like, at one point, it was like, you know, I can wait another year to have enough time to do like a whole eat, pray, love thing or just do. I don't know. A minute. Yep. Five minutes. Whatever is there, whatever bucket of time and just start. Actually, start doing it.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:21:45) - It. Just start there. Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:21:48) - Oh, I love this visualization. It's it's much more a sea level, boss. Energy level.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:21:54) - Yeah. No, like your scenic route. Like back in the car. Listen to the podcast.
Jennifer Walter (00:21:58) - Let's go. Let's go to the cloud car. Are we there?
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:22:00) - Yet? No. Oh, God, yes.
Jennifer Walter (00:22:05) - No. No, not by a long shot.
Jennifer Walter (00:22:08) - But that's actually also the beauty of it. Right? You got to be comfortable with it. Not being there yet. And that's what you said, right? Like what? That you feel like other people see the online course as kind of like the quick ticket to escape. And you're like, well, a be really clear what you're escaping from and kind of like the whole. You're moving with a different energy if you're trying to escape from something. I'm deciding I want something better, and I'm moving towards that.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:22:41) - Yeah, but the joke's on us because the destination is in the doing. I mean, the only way you get there is when you die. So, like, where are we all rushing to get there? Like, there's the end of the journey. Yes.
Jennifer Walter (00:22:54) - Oh, my God. I love that you said that. Yes, it's so true. That was one of my like; that was actually the moment when the scenic route was born.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:23:01) - Really? Yes.
Jennifer Walter (00:23:02) - I was on a call with my coach and manager at the time, and I was like, you know, I just just want to, like, reach that next level, like, just whatever fucking done with this shit, right? And he's like, okay, but then like, what next? I'm like, Well, then there will be another, I don't know.
Jennifer Walter (00:23:22) - There'll be another layer like the Tower of Babel. It just always is another. And then she's like, Well, okay, but let's imagine for a second you reached all like all the staircases. You've reached everything. You're on top of the tower. What are you going to do? I'm like. Yeah. Well, honestly, I'd probably jump down because I would be bored. Yeah, exactly. And she's like, Yeah, that's the point. I'm like. Set. Then I really had to be sitting with that uncomfortableness because I'm like, It's never done unless you're done.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:23:59) - Yeah, but this is something that I think runners do really beautifully. So I'm not a runner. I'm not a runner at all. I'm a meter jogger. But I heard that analogy too.
Jennifer Walter (00:24:07) - Yeah, apparently, runners do this well.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:24:09) - Yeah, well, because the thing is, if you've ever gone out for a walk, jog, run, and I think we all have, at some point, you're like especially if you're quote unquote, not a runner, you go out and you're like, All right, Jess, I'm just going to make it to the end of the street.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:24:20) - When I get to the industry, I'll allow myself to walk. And so you go, and you get to the end of the street, and you're like, I still have gas in the tank. I actually feel, okay, okay, I'm just going to get to the fire hydrant. And when I do.
Jennifer Walter (00:24:29) - Five more minutes, I can do five more.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:24:30) - Minutes. Go to the tree and.
Jennifer Walter (00:24:32) - Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt Like I can do ten. If you can do 10s, you can do another 10s. Yeah.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:24:37) - Well, and you keep moving the finish line. And so the joke is on us because that is it. Like we're all going to continue to move to the finish line, and that's beautiful. That's growth, that's evolution, that's what we want. So there's no end to the race. The end is when you're literally no longer here when you can enjoy the process of the next tree, the next fire hydrant, the next road sign, and realize that, like, this is it. This is not a dress rehearsal like this, is it? We're in it right now.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:25:03) - It's not a race to the finish, and it's not a race to the fastest. It's the destination is the doing and the doing, The journey, the unravelling, the unlearning, the relearning. Like, this is it. This is the best part.
Jennifer Walter (00:25:15) - Yes. This is the scenic route. We could. Yeah. I mean, can we record this again? Like, maybe we should just have this snippet so I could use it for advertising for the studio? It is.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:25:24) - It is the scenic route. It is the scenic route.
Jennifer Walter (00:25:26) - It just. Is that right? And I think I feel that that's also such a powerful reframe of if whenever you're realizing you're hitting another block, maybe, I mean, first it was like maybe the five months, and it was a ten K months, then it was maybe the 20, 5000 K months, whatever. We're always kind of like, Oh, now I'm stuck again where you can use it as a reframe. Be like, Yeah, you're stuck. Stuck Now because you've levelled up, right? And, you're given another opportunity to be like, Hey, how can I do this again in a way that feels fun and exciting and expensive to me and not like I'm burning myself to the ground?
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:26:08) - But this is literally the name of the show. It's like you're taking the scenic route, and then all of a sudden, you hit a roadblock because there are a tree has fallen down, and you could no longer go that way. So you don't just quit. You don't just sit in the car and turn it off and sulk. You're like, okay, well, we're going to go a different way. And hopefully hopefully, the navigation will help me because I'm just going to turn down this street and hopefully find it. And the next thing you know, you end up going down a street that you wouldn't have gone down. You see something even more beautiful, and there's a store that you wanted to stop at that you didn't know you wanted to stop there. Right. And so it's like when you don't, when you come up against that upper limit, when the tree falls down when it starts raining when the scenic route all of a sudden turns into a.
Jennifer Walter (00:26:43) - Dead, no more gas in the tank, You just.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:26:45) - You just figure it out and you go somewhere else. And then it takes you on a different journey. Yes.
Jennifer Walter (00:26:49) - And it's also like you just gotta be willing to. Really kind of like ditched the whole blueprints, whatever idea, right? Like, and it's also not about, like, there is no path in front of you, and it's not about you forging a path and you seeing the path ahead of you. Right? It's just really do one step up the other and see, well, do like this enough to keep going on. Or, like, will I get more if I change directions or not? Or how can I what can I do to like it more? So I'll keep on going. Yeah. I love this. Ooh, yes. Also. God. Okay. But I want to come back. And I feel because I feel I already here, like all coaches listening in screaming, like, can we talk about this cell before? Like before you have it? And I'm like, yes, let's, let's, let's switch to D&D before we have like a whole, um, his whole like, song of worship dedicated to the group.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:27:54) - Like I was not paid, by the way, that just came out naturally. Yeah. So this idea, this idea of selling it first, you know, disclaimer, this is what I believe, and this is what works for myself and all of my clients. So I do believe that is a complete and utter waste of time, energy and potentially money if you create something first. Now, when I say create, I don't mean come up with an idea, and I don't mean talk about it. I mean, like literally filming videos and making PDFs and playing on glossy.
Jennifer Walter (00:28:23) - Glossy sales pages.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:28:25) - Yeah, fancy sales pages, like any of that stuff. What I believe is you should sell it first. And when people pay you, then you start to create it. So what do you need in order to sell it first? Number one, the understanding that this is not bad, wrong or manipulative. This is Kickstarter, this is Kickstarter, this is Indiegogo. This is literally you saying, I have an idea.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:28:46) - It's going to yield this transformation. It's going to help you in these ways. This is who it would be for. This is who it would not be for. If you're interested, pay me. Yeah. When you pay me, it tells me that there's market demand. It tells me that you want what I have. It tells me that I have nailed the messaging of it. Once you've paid me, I'm going to go rush, and I'm going to hustle, and I'm going to get my booty to work, and I'm going to start creating the assets, the deliverables and those little shiny things that feel like the most important part. But they're not the most important part.
Jennifer Walter (00:29:16) - No, I mean, seriously, no one is buying your course because you add another bonus.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:29:21) - No, they're not. And most of us don't add bonuses the right way. Anyway. For the record, side note bonuses should be handling an objection or creating a transformation to get someone ready to buy the thing that they want that you want them to buy.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:29:33) - A bonus should be some weird thing in the arsenal.
Jennifer Walter (00:29:35) - Step in a client journey.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:29:37) - Yeah, exactly. It shouldn't just be some like thing that you have collecting digital dust from four years ago.
Jennifer Walter (00:29:42) - I have this exactly right. Maybe frozen to yes.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:29:46) - That's not going to work.
Jennifer Walter (00:29:47) - No, we're working with smart people, and they'll see through your bullshit. But this is so true, right? Like, I mean, I. I mean, I'm not. I know I've invested in similar ways, right? Like, I mean, I remember back. I mean, I jumped into, like, a program with a business coach because she sent me a link to a Google doc. And it was like really like just a doodle dog. And the fonts were all wanky. And I'm like. Uh, the brand expert in me is dying a little bit, but.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:30:20) - I know, but it's permission.
Jennifer Walter (00:30:22) - Let's hang on. Let's hang on for a second. Um, and then she. Then she had me, right?
Jennifer Walter (00:30:27) - Like, it was just really like. Yeah, as you said, like, is this the idea? I don't really yet know in what form the deliverables will show up, but. This is the first time I've run this. Are you with me? Cool. If not, you're happy to join in a year or two when it's all, like, shiny and glittery but totally. And mean you can always do like. Of course, she had like a pricing incentive because it was the first round, and she figured everything out, which is great. But I mean, she had money in the bank, whereas if she would have done a glossy sales page, got a copywriter, got a designer, go whatever. She might have not.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:31:11) - Right. You need that proof first that people want it, that you've locked in on the messaging, that they understand the transformation and also run it a couple of times, get feedback, make it better, get testimonials that you can add to your fancy sales page, like get the results from clients that you could then speak to in your marketing about the case.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:31:27) - Studies of Jen came in here on A and left on Z, you know, and I think it's really important. This is another huge mistake that a lot of coaches make is when or every entrepreneur when you are selling something, most of us are too heavily focused on the deliverables, and the deliverables are the vehicle. So the vehicle is your framework, your proprietary method, your program, your course, your e-book. We're selling the vehicle rather than the destination or the island. So if we again go to a visual and I call you up, and I say, you know, Jen, do you want to go to Greece with me? It's going to be amazing. We're going to pack our suitcases. We're going to go to the airport. We're going to wait. We're going to go online. We're going to check our bags. We're going to sit at the gate for 45 minutes. We're going to take a seven-hour flight. Oh, God. It's going to be incredible. Are you in? You're like, I mean, Greece sounds cool, but, like, maybe.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:32:10) - And then if I call you, really.
Jennifer Walter (00:32:12) - Stressful.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:32:13) - Right? I said, Jen, do you want to go to Greece? We're going to, like, hang out on the beach. We're going to go to that Skorpios place where everyone dances on the tables. We could smash plates during sunrise. We're going to have.
Jennifer Walter (00:32:21) - To wear white.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:32:22) - Tails and wear white. We're going to do that cool like photo shoot with the big dresses on the white rooftops with the blue water. Are you in? You're like gold.
Jennifer Walter (00:32:29) - Sure, I'm already on a plane.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:32:31) - Right? Exactly. So what we're doing, most of us are selling the aeroplane. We're selling the 12 modules, the 75 videos, the whatever, blah, blah, blah. Instead of. A transformation of a disease. Listen, you've been here on Island A, where it's raining and cold and gross, and you want to go to Island B, where it's freaking incredible, and we're partying on the beach. Let's go to Island B, not I can get you there with my seven-step modules, my 52 videos, with my 14-page workbook.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:32:58) - It's not about the vehicle. It's about the transformation.
Jennifer Walter (00:33:01) - Yeah. Yes. And, uh, it just reminds me of, like, that quote. I have no idea who said it, but it's kind of like if you want someone to buy it to buy a ship, you have to, like, ignite his desire for the sea. Right? It's really like, hey, and we're. And, like, we're moving away. And I'm so glad I've seen it. I see this more and more, and in the coaching industry or across the online world, we're moving away from like pain, more pain point marketing and B and like triggering like, oh, you know, you're like, but more of like, hey, you know, just imagine how cool it would be if we're in Greece together and not like, Hey, you're missing out. If you're not, then and then so. I really love that reframe on value. And it's also kind of like, hey, how do we if we're starting out, we have this idea of like, Hey, okay, this would be really cool.
Jennifer Walter (00:34:01) - How do we how do we navigate that? How do we how, how do you suggest people go about if they have an idea? They think it's kind of cool. They have gotten some feedback that, yeah, this is cool, but it's still a long way from Yes, this is cool too. I am actually going to buy this. Yeah. So if we're like at the very early stage, if you're listening and you're at that stage, what is the advice you would give people to be like, This is how you proceed in actionable, actionable terms to see if there's a market fit. Yeah. For what you want to do.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:34:35) - Yeah. So there are really three phases here that I teach, whether it's in your social media content, email marketing, or really anything that you're doing. So the three different phases will break down, and then I'll go down a little bit further in each. So phase one is to validate, validate that your offer idea needs its messaging, and marketing verbiage is all spot on.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:34:52) - The second part is the teasing of it. So you first validate it, then you tease it. That creates that Hollywood hype, right? It's been 14 years since Avatar, and now it's here. And we've had all that hype and that promotion coming to Memorial Day, right? So it's like the hype. And then the third part would be promotion, of course. So in the promotion, the doors are open. Come here. Okay. Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:35:12) - Four more days until the car closes.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:35:14) - Totally. Yeah. Apply call whatever. In the in the validation phase is where market research would fall. Market research is a huge umbrella for a lot of different things. So first and foremost, it's putting content out and just seeing how your audience reacts to it. Not once. That's not valid market research like dozens of times in dozens of ways. Short form, long form reels, carousels, hard posts, TikTok posts, Facebook posts. You know, like you have to test the waters and get a really good sample size.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:35:42) - So putting out content and asking at the end of it, the CTA, it's like if I were to do a training on this, is that something you'd be interested? Comment Yes, Below. Yeah, that's a good CTA, right? Like I'm thinking about putting together a training, a free training on XYZ. What do you want to know about it when it's available? That's all you need to say.
Jennifer Walter (00:36:00) - So you already got people on like and very early bird list that you can like nurture and be like, Hey, you know, this is a treat for you.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:36:07) - Sure. So you can do market research through your content. You can also, if you're in something like a free Facebook group and it's allowed, you can ask questions over there, not poaching clients, just asking if people are interested. More importantly, listen to what people are saying. So don't even post in the group. Just read the comments. What are people posting? What are they asking for help on? What are they saying is hard? What are they? Where do they feel stuck? Use that as market research.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:36:30) - Another place that I love that I don't think a lot of people use is Amazon.
Jennifer Walter (00:36:35) - So I was like, I'm your Thunder Steeler jazz. I'm not renaming, you know, because I was just like, you know, for my branding sales page, I read I read all like the branding reviews, reviews on Amazon. That's what we were like. That's like that branding book was like, man, because. Blair And I'm like, Right, Noted.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:36:56) - Exactly. Yeah. So Amazon book reviews are a good resource. Yes, they're great, and they can't pay. It's not like Yelp. So they're, they're, they're real comments from people that say, I love this because I wish it had XYZ. I didn't like this. Yeah, it's a great place. The best place to do market research. So we've said content, we've said Facebook groups, we've said Amazon book reviews. And the best place because there are a lot of other places ready, drumroll, real conversations with real people. So whether they're a client of yours or not, if they're a past client or their friend, a family member, it's literally getting on the phone, phone people, not DMS, getting on the phone with someone and actually just talking to them.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:37:38) - Don't sell them anything. Don't try to pitch them anything. Just listen to them. You can do that in the form of a survey, you know, Google Forms or SurveyMonkey. Get them on the phone though that is so much more powerful. You can see people's emotions if you're on Zoom; if you're on a call, you can hear the inflexion in their voice, the trembling of how badly they desire this thing, how long they've tried by themselves getting people.
Jennifer Walter (00:38:02) - On how they do you have the wording of how they talk, not how they write, which is completely different? Yes.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:38:09) - And you want to be writing that down. So whether you're recording it and they know that you're recording it, tell them, or you transcribe it after, or you just take notes while they're talking. It's so important.
Jennifer Walter (00:38:17) - Oh, you'll make my social researcher hearts so happy. Like, no, but seriously, like when I do like. I'm always kind of like, I mean, I do brand strategy. So yes, we talk about client avatars that we talk about like client journeys and client pain points, whatever.
Jennifer Walter (00:38:36) - And. I'm always kind of like, look, there is merit in those exercises. If they're not desktop research in your head, projecting onto other people exercises when you're actually doing the legwork of talking to those people. Absolutely. And maybe you do it if you're making conversations, do 5 to 7. That's totally cool. If you're going for something qualitative like qualitative research, if you have conversations, 5 to 7 is perfect. And yeah, and then also, as what you said, beginning, if you're doing different posts, you got to do that more than once. Yeah. Yes.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:39:19) - And polls and quizzes. We can use all the feature boxes, and yeah. Something like Instagram, you can have exact stuff, but.
Jennifer Walter (00:39:25) - Also not.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:39:26) - Screenshot the results.
Jennifer Walter (00:39:28) - Yes.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:39:29) - Don't just put up a poll and then like forget about the answers. Like screenshot them, put them in a photo album called Market Research and then circle back when you need to see what those people said.
Jennifer Walter (00:39:39) - Yeah. And like also don't, don't change.
Jennifer Walter (00:39:43) - And that's what I often see is like, don't change all the variables in one go, right? Maybe test the same message on all different channels. So you see if it's a channel and channel issue or a messaging issue. Yep. Like, and just kind of like, see, So that way, you know. What worked and what didn't? Otherwise, you just know something worked, something didn't. So and just like to kind of like, like put the final nail in the coffin of how many times you should do this to reach statistical significance, you need to do it at least a thousand times. So that's that, you know, no one does it. It hasn't timed, which is cool, but just, you know, just like have the nail in the coffin. If anyone asks, like, how many times do we have to do this? It's at least a thousand times. So there you go.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:40:32) - So more than two.
Jennifer Walter (00:40:36) - So, phase two.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:40:38) - Yeah. Hype. Okay. So that was all part of validating.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:40:41) - And really what we skipped over here is, is really validating that the offer and your messaging has locked in because most of us are teaching things that we once went through. So most of us are future versions of our ideal client, aka we were our past client. At some point, as the gap gets bigger, the way that you speak about it, that gap gets bigger too. And so what you think they need is not necessarily what they need, or how you speak about what they need is different than how they spoke about it and what they think. Give you an example.
Jennifer Walter (00:41:10) - What they think they want or what they think they need is not necessarily what they need.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:41:14) - Yeah, so we work with a lot of health and fitness professionals and a lot of times they'll use industry jargon like they'll talk about macros or they'll talk about functional training. And it's you have to remember, if you are talking to the past version of you a year ago, five years ago, £120 ago, before bodybuilding competitions.
Jennifer Walter (00:41:34) - Make any sense, it wouldn't make.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:41:35) - Any sense. At that time. You wanted to lose weight; you wanted to build muscle. It was very simple, like you wanted to be consistent for yours.
Jennifer Walter (00:41:43) - Grand gym, whatever it is. Exactly.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:41:45) - So they're not worried about macros. They don't even know what macros are. Macros are intimidating. It's just I don't want to die it. I don't want to die it. That's what they're saying. I don't want to diet, right? Like I've fallen off every diet. So really doing the research again and validating that the way that you're speaking about it has locked in on how they speak second-grade reading level, like bring it, bring it all the way down. So phase two is the teasing tease phase, excuse me. And during the teasing phase, you're letting them know that you're now actually working on the thing that you said that you were thinking about working on when they said that they were interested in it. So this could literally be you filming Screenshotting and Boomerang and you working on the back end of it.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:42:22) - Maybe you're working on Canva. It's really important when you're doing this to get them to buy in, to have skin in the game. So if you are doing something like creating an image on Canva, allow your audience to vote on the colour or the font or the picture. Now, based on what they wrote.
Jennifer Walter (00:42:38) - On.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:42:39) - You don't have to choose what they voted on. But them doing that, number one, is a micro commitment from them because they're already committing to being involved and they're pushing a button. So you're getting them to take action. And then number two, when you do get to the promotion phase, whether they're actually interested in purchasing it or not, they're interested to see ego. Hello. Did she or he pick what I want?
Jennifer Walter (00:42:59) - The colour? I said.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:43:00) - Exactly. So there's buy-in. So during the tease phase, you're letting them know that it's coming, you're working on it, you're telling them a little bit more of the details.
Jennifer Walter (00:43:08) - Just basically, you're documenting what you're doing, right? Like, I see people overcomplicating this all the time, or they're like, Oh, I don't know what I should like.
Jennifer Walter (00:43:18) - I don't know what I should put out on social media. It's actually just that just documents what you're doing.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:43:23) - And as it gets closer, the teasing becomes more detailed. So again, going to Hollywood. If you think about back in 1997, right, Christmas of 1997, we saw the Titanic cruising down the ocean, and all of a sudden, the screen went black, and then Jack was on a door with Kate Winslet. I forgot her name, Rose. And then it just went blank, and it said Titanic was coming in May of 1997. But then, over the next couple of months, the trailer got longer. We saw more details. Now Leonardo DiCaprio's dancing in the basement of the Titanic. I'm obviously ageing myself here as it got closer. Now all the main characters are on all the different talk shows, and all of a sudden, they're getting interviewed by Oprah and Ellen and this one. And so what once was just like the name of the movie. Now it's a three-minute trailer, and now we're seeing the actors and actresses, and now we're learning more about the costumes and the idea of what's going on in the film until the day that it finally comes out.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:44:20) - By the time that it comes out in May and they first told us about it six months earlier, you kind of know everything, but now you're dying to go see the movie because you need to know how it ends. And the funny thing is something like that, it's literally history, so you don't have to see the movie to see how it ended. But we're so bought in. Yeah, we're.
Jennifer Walter (00:44:38) - So emotionally invested in all this. So we have met, right? We just want to be like, Oh, what's going to happen to her? What's going to happen to him?
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:44:44) - Like, But we didn't meet the people on the first, the first trailer. It was just like, boom, Titanic, 1997, you know? So that's the teasing. That's the teasing. And then the third and final is promotion. And this is the place where most people just go directly to. They go right to the sale without warming up the oven. Right? They go right to asking for the date without buying.
Jennifer Walter (00:45:01) - You a drink. Frozen lasagna into the oven, and, like, we'll see.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:45:05) - Yep. So we want to make sure during the promotion phase we're not just skipping ahead without the validating and the teasing, but we're actually doing our due diligence. We're taking the time. It's a slow play. And then when we get into promotion, this is where you can have fun with. Do you want to have bonuses? Is there urgency? Are you creating any sort of FOMO or scarcity? Are there discounts? Are there is there a launch vehicle? Are you using something like a master masterclass or a webinar, or a challenge to launch the thing? How long are our doors open? How long? How quickly do they close? All of that gets played with in the promotion phase.
Jennifer Walter (00:45:37) - Yeah. Oh, thank you so much for breaking that down. That is super, super incredible. Valuable. I'm now curious, though, like we had the Hollywood example with the Titanic. And I love it because it's really visual, and you're like, Yeah, everyone has seen the first trailer and then the last trailer, you're like, Whoa.
Jennifer Walter (00:45:59) - Um, so I mean, you said it yourself like that first, the time frame between first and last trailer with Atlantic, I don't know, three months, six months, whatever. That's not our coaching. Like, like our launching window in the online sphere.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:46:17) - It can be easily.
Jennifer Walter (00:46:18) - It can be it depends what.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:46:19) - You're launching.
Jennifer Walter (00:46:20) - Exactly. It can be. But what I don't know is it is kind of like there is a rule of thumb for how long each window should be.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:46:30) - Well, that's a great question. Yes, but it's relative to how much space you've given yourself. So we always start with the end in mind. So starting with the end in mind and reverse engineering, if a program is going to start on a certain date or doors are going to close on a certain date and you know you want that the doors to be open for five days, you start with the day that they close you back out five days. That tells you when they're open from there.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:46:54) - Are you doing a launch vehicle, a conversion event, like a master class? If so, what date is that? Then back out from there, How many days do you want to promote it? So if it's a free event, maybe you only promote it for a week because anything longer than that, people probably will forget about it because it's free. So then you back out a week from that, then you continue to back yourself out, and you might give yourself, depending on where you are today, because all of a sudden you've backed out, backed out, backed out, and you're actually at last week and you're like, wow.
Jennifer Walter (00:47:17) - Like last October. Exactly.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:47:19) - So now you have to just take what you have and break it down into the three different phases. And you might go through phases faster as you become more seasoned, as you really know your audience, as it's a similar type of product or transformation, that validation phase probably will shrink down as your programs get more clout and credibility.
Jennifer Walter (00:47:38) - You have more testimonials.
Jennifer Walter (00:47:39) - People like, Oh, okay, yeah, I bought the previous course. I know everything she puts out. I'm like, it is golden.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:47:44) - So so my opinion is never rush validation because that's the most important part. That's your message. Yes. But maybe the teasing can get a little bit rushed, especially if they already know, like and trust you or it has a lot of legs to stand on. So like our signature program in power, we're in our 17th round. We've been running it for four and a half years. It's had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of clients. People that typically are interested in it already know about it, so don't have to do too much teasing. Plus, I'm teasing it all the time anyway. Like every week when I'm on a coaching call, I'm teasing the program even if I'm not in a launch.
Jennifer Walter (00:48:17) - Program while you're on the podcast.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:48:18) - Yeah, exactly. So the validation for that is going to get shorter because we've pretty much nailed that messaging, and we know people want it.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:48:27) - The teasing is going to get shorter. So we actually get to put a little bit more energy into the promotion, which then means we get to make our launches a little bit more robust, and they're really fun, and we get to add more sales emails and more. Yeah, different things to it. So yeah, it just kind of depends.
Jennifer Walter (00:48:41) - Would you say there is kind of a relation between how long it should be and how long each phase should be in relation to the investment client side?
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:48:53) - That's a great question. So. The logical brain wants to say yes. However, I know that's not true. Here's the thing. If something is free, it probably doesn't need as much time. That just is true. They don't need as much runway when something's free. I mean, how many times have we come across something free that we didn't even know we were interested in that we sign up for anyway because we're like, it's free? So you don't really need a lot of runway for free. But that does not mean that the bigger the investment needs a bigger runway.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:49:20) - At the same time that we have our signature program, we also have a very high-level elite mastermind, which is four times the investment. But that person, that level of entrepreneur, a seven-figure entrepreneur, are the people in our mastermind high six and seven-figure entrepreneurs. They don't need a lot of runway. They just need to know that it's available for them. So it does need to always equate available.
Jennifer Walter (00:49:40) - It's it has maybe a certain start date.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:49:43) - Close and like they're ready to go. It's not their first investment. They have tons of overhead. They're profitable. They know it's where they want to be. So I do think it just depends on, again, knowing your client, our avatar that we talked about, where are they at? What are they struggling with? What do they need to overcome? What type of objection might be coming up for them limiting belief and mindset stuff, something that's coming up for them, or are they like so far beyond that they literally just need to know what day the calls are? Okay, cool.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:50:09) - It fits into my schedule. I'll be there. Yeah. So I think it just depends on, really, like what is who is the person that you're selling to and then think about their journey. What did they need? What did they need? It's going to be different, but free probably is less Higher ticket is going to be a little bit more runway, but it's not always the case.
Jennifer Walter (00:50:26) - Yes, it's not. I love that. Like we're just kind of like have that demystified. It's not always the case. It doesn't. We often think that a high ticket needs more work on our part, which is yes and no. Right. We have to. It might require more work on ourselves, sure, but not necessarily more work in like, Oh, I have to do no more free webinars or Right boot camp. Well, it's.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:50:53) - Interesting. I've been in high-level elite masterminds for eight years, and I've been running them as well. And like there's no webinar, there's no master class to join my mentor's program, like the actual Masterclass, the mastermind.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:51:05) - Now his signature program that's priced like our signature program. That's a whole big launch with all these mastermind-like webinars and whatever like we do. But funny enough, the thing that's three, four, five, six times more of an investment, there's no funnel. There's no like.
Jennifer Walter (00:51:19) - More like kind of like a speakeasy. I feel right now like, hey, you know, it's here. I know you've done it. Other program, like, we vibed really well, you know, like, here's my mastermind. How do you feel about it? Yep. Yep. I love it. So it does get to be easy and fun.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:51:38) - It does. Systems and structure create freedom.
Jennifer Walter (00:51:42) - I love it. That's such a good word to kind of end this podcast. I couldn't have done it better. So I have two final things. So you don't hang up now. Who's listening? Like we have two final things. You brought something with us for anyone who's listening in today, Jess; what did you bring?
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:52:00) - Oh, I have so many different things that I can gift.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:52:02) - And I was wondering.
Jennifer Walter (00:52:03) - Access to the vault.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:52:05) - I know. I was wondering what would be the most powerful. And I started this episode by saying how much I love doing podcasts, and this is just so much fun. So we actually have a really cool free training to help you land more speaking engagements, whether that's on physical stages, virtual stages or podcasts. So that way, you can gain exposure fast and for free, and you get to borrow other people's audiences, right? So we have a really cool free training there. But my favourite part about the free training is that we actually have pitch page templates for you. So we're teaching you how to create one sheet or a pitch page, and then we're giving you templates that are all different vibes, and you can just sort of change the colours and change the font and add your own stuff in there. So I'd love to gift that to you. We can give you the link in the show notes, but it's.
Jennifer Walter (00:52:46) - Going to be.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:52:47) - Jess glaser.com/pitch page templates.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:52:49) - So that would be my gift.
Jennifer Walter (00:52:51) - Oh, that sounds amazing. I'd feel free. If you're listening in, feel free to use this and send it to me. And if I'm like, Yes, love it, you're going to be in a Scenic Route podcast next.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:53:02) - Oh.
Speaker 3 (00:53:03) - Oh, my.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:53:04) - Goodness. You heard it here first.
Jennifer Walter (00:53:06) - Yes. Yes, you did. So love that. Where can people like you already said we're going to we're going to link it? So where do you hang out online? What it's like you already had the website. Jess glaser.com. Sure. Like, where are you? Are you a TikTok? Are you on Instagram? Where do you hang out? All of the above.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:53:21) - We're literally everywhere. I hang out most on Instagram. My handle over there is my married name, so it's a little different. It's I am Jessica DeRose. So that's where I hang the most. Come say hi. DM Me voice memo me there. Same thing on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook; I love it.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:53:37) - All the places YouTube. But definitely come listen to our podcast. We do two episodes a week. We have lots of business strategies, some mindset stuff, lots of guests. So digital business evolution is our podcast and our YouTube but come say hi.
Jennifer Walter (00:53:50) - Yay. Yes, everyone, please do. So before I let you go, just one final question. What book are you currently reading?
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:53:58) - Oh, gosh, I'm actually reading a few. I'm a huge.
Jennifer Walter (00:54:01) - Book. That's that's my that's my staple there.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:54:04) - Like you're reading all of them at the same time.
Jennifer Walter (00:54:06) - Uh, well, not all six of them, but four of them. Wow. Yeah, I'm maybe weird that way, but. Wow. Good. That's what I started was, um, the book of Limp.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:54:21) - Oh, I don't know.
Jennifer Walter (00:54:21) - That It's actually, I just, um. I've just started, and it's showing you, like, how to do self-massages to kind of, like, improve your lymph system and, like, all those things.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:54:33) - Very cool. Yeah. So I'm currently reading two books. One is I'm rereading it. It's called Ask by Ryan Levesque.
Jennifer Walter (00:54:39) - Oh, yes, Good one. Very good book.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:54:40) - And then I'm also reading. It's right here because I'm actually interviewing her on my podcast in just a minute. But Wealth Codes by Candy Valentino or I'm Sorry, Wealth Habits by Candy Valentino, which is a really great book. And I just committed this year as it's the first couple of days of the year I am committed to. While I have no issue reading 30 to 50 bucks a year, I'm committed to ten of them being fiction. I don't know the last time I read a fiction book, so very excited.
Jennifer Walter (00:55:05) - One of them is a fiction book, so one of them is.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:55:07) - Very excited to do that. My girlfriends and I have kind of committed to hold each other accountable. Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:55:12) - Yes, that's so that's so important, right? Like, I feel we're always reading so much business books that were kind of like, when did you actually just like read like a novel or a poetry? Just something for, like, just something.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:55:23) - Yeah, Yeah. Fun and creative.
Jennifer Walter (00:55:25) - Yes, I love that. Hey, Jess, thank you so much for listening. Pleasure talking. Thank you so much. I hope you're enjoying the podcast and take something from me at all. Your knowledge bombs. Thank you. So grateful. Thank you so much.
Jess Glazer DeRose (00:55:40) - For having me. I'm such a.
Jennifer Walter (00:55:40) - Pleasure. Guest with others. Head over to the route podcast to check out all the links and resources from today's episode. Oh, and while you're there, don't forget to download my free email course Intuitive Branding invitation to teach you how you can successfully tune into your own brand frequency and rediscover your brand's unique gifts, strengths and talents. So thanks again. Talk soon.