Scenic Route, Social Change and Mental Health for Tired Perfectionists

Something's Off And It's Not Your Vision Board: The Capacity Conundrum

• Jennifer Walter • Season 7 • Episode 114

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You've done the vision boards. Set the goals. Showed up with discipline. And still – something feels off.

If you're a high achiever who's done all the things and still doesn't feel like you've arrived, this one's for you.

Jessica Eley breaks down why smart, driven women stay stuck even when they know what they want. Spoiler: it's not your vision, your strategy, or your discipline. It's your capacity – your ability to handle not just what you want, but everything that comes with it.

We talk about:

  • Why "I don't know what I want" is about being unpracticed, not broken
  • The real reason you might be more afraid of success than failure
  • Why labelling things good/bad keeps you small
  • How your nervous system determines your income ceiling
  • The balance between owning what you want and having the capacity to handle it


This Episode Is For You If:

  • You've done the vision board thing and you're still stuck
  • You hit your goals and felt... nothing
  • You want more but can't seem to let yourself reach for it
  • You're tired of being the strong one but don't know how to be different
  • You keep trying new strategies but the same patterns keep showing up
  • You're doing everything right and still feel like something's missing
  • You're starting to wonder if the problem isn't your plan — it's something no one's named yet

This isn't about manifesting harder or the next manifestation hack. It's about meeting yourself where you are and building from there.

Guest: Jessica Eley: coach for high achievers creating success on their own terms Connect: @iamjesseley

Send me a DM

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Visit jenniferwalter.me – your cosy tree house where tired perfectionists and those done pretending to be fine find space to breathe, dream, and create real change.

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Jennifer Walter:

You're doing everything right. The goals are set, the strategy is solid, and you show up with discipline. And still, yeah. Something feels off. Maybe you hit your targets and felt nothing, or maybe you want more, but you can't really seem to reach for it and go on it. Or maybe success feels like it's always just a teen tiny bit out of reach, no matter how capable and smart you are. So here's what nobody really tells high achievers and high performers. And what Jessica Eley is really about to spell the beans. It's not your goals, your strategy, or your discipline. Because you got all that. So what's left? It's your capacity. And that changes everything. So let's go. There's a different way to think about mental health. And it starts with slowing down. Sometimes the longest way around is the shortest way home. And that's exactly where we're taking the scenic route. Hi, I'm Jennifer Walter, host of the Scenic Rad Podcast. Think of me as your sociologist, sister in arms, and rebel with many causes. Together, we're blending critical thinking with compassion, mental health with a dash of rebellion, and personal healing with collective change. We're trading perfectionism for possibility and toxic positivity for messy growth. Each week, we're exploring the path to better mental health and social transformation. And yes, by the way, pretty crystals are totally optional. You ready to take the scenic route? Let's walk this path together. Hey, thanks for having me.

Jessica Eley:

I'm glad it finally worked. Yay! Um we took the scenic route to getting to oh we are so on theme.

Jennifer Walter:

Like we're so bloody on theme. Like it's I mean, it's it's almost kitsch, like, but yes. Like, okay, so if if you've listened to the scenic podcast before, you've for sure heard me mention Jess at one point or another. Um, but let's let her introduce herself um in her own words. So hey, Jess Rush. Like, well, I mean you don't have to give like give us like the the elevator pitch, like your story. How how did you start? Like how how did you got where you're today? Like the pivotal crossroads and the big moments.

Jessica Eley:

I don't have a pitch, right? Because I think the thing that I had to learn to do for myself is to learn to be really honest about where I was and then make a very conscious choice about where it was I wanted to go next. And that sounds like stupid obvious, but if you are like a high achiever kind of person, you have like a predefined path, right? Like I had my entire life laid out for myself when I was like 18 or something, right? Probably even before that. And I thought I knew everything that I wanted, and I was just gonna like check these boxes and like it was yep, it was gonna be great. And and then like I checked all my boxes by the time I was like 24, and I was miserable. And but here's the thing is like I still thought that there was like a checklist somewhere, right? I was still looking for this thing outside of me that would give me like this prescription for a good life, right? And so part of why I don't have an elevator pitch is because I meet people where they are, and everybody's in a different place. Like I have I have been truly in the bottom of the shitter, and I have worked with people who are at rock bottom, and then I've worked with people who are like at the top of their game compared to where they've ever been, and still feel like there's more to give, right? And and they've never experienced rock bottom. And when I talk about some of the things that myself or others have gone through, they have no sense of what that is. But learning to meet myself and then, in extension, my clients where they are, and helping people make a really intentional choice, like yes, this is actually what I want. Because I can guarantee you, if you're not getting what it is you want, it's either because you don't actually want that thing, or because you think you would lose something that is actually more important to you in getting it, right?

Jennifer Walter:

And okay, so pause Jassica Ely because I hear everyone go like dick dick dick dick process, process, process, right? So let's let's let's quickly break that down. So you can get what you want. Yeah. Premise number one, if you know what it is. Yes. I feel go ahead. I feel that's already like a trick trick question. No, I mean, I I mean, I like okay, so for those who don't know, I Jess is my coach, I coach with Jess. Um, so she knows. I was at the point one time where I'm like, but I don't know what I want. And I have loads of clients who also like when asked what do you want, they're baffled for a lot of reasons. They have absolutely no fucking way, no fucking idea what they want. So how can we get to what we want? And then yeah, like we don't want to lose that that but one thing at a time.

Jessica Eley:

So, okay, yeah, how can we figure that out? Here's the thing, you definitely do know what you want in that case, right? So when I talk about um knowing what it is you want, there's two people. There's the ones who are like, I have no clue, and then there's the ones who are like, Yes, I know exactly what it is I want. It's just not happening yet. And it's like, yeah, you don't actually care about that thing. That's why it's why it's not happening yet, right? Like, um, you know, for instance, I have talked with people who are like, I really want a million-dollar business, and they have all these like logical reasons, and there some of them are extremely compelling, right? But then I talk to them more, and it's not actually the thing that they care about, right? Or the million dollars was the way to get the thing that they actually cared about, right? But in the example that you give, where you're like, I don't know, the first thing is to stop telling yourself you don't know because you do know something that you want, okay. Um, you may not have like a 10-year plan or even a 10-month plan or a 10-week plan. That's fine. But like get as granular as you need to, right? If you are so out of touch with yourself that you're like telling yourself this story of I don't know what it is that I want, then okay, like start playing the yes-no game. Like, do you want to sit outside? Do you want to sit inside? Do you want to eat this or do you want to eat that? Do you are you thirsty? Are you not? Break it down to like moment by moment, right? Like, what do you want in this particular moment? Like, yes, right. Because that's the thing is like you're probably where I often run into this is people who have been caregivers. Um, so like moms of young children, people who have taken care of someone who is sick or elderly. Um, anybody where like you have to give up what it is you want because someone else or something else needs you more. So this can also happen if you work in like a highly reactive environment, right? If you're in a career where like you're always um like putting out fires or you're just at the whim of a boss or something like that, you will be unpracticed at hearing what it is you actually want. And then the tendency is to just kind of like pick something out of thin air that like once upon a time you wanted, or something that your family wants for you, or something that your friends want. And so, like, yes, I might as well want that too, right? But you don't actually have any sense of what it is you need right now because you've been so busy tending to the needs of others around you.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah. And that can also like happen totally unconsciously, right? Like, yeah, I mean, like everything can, right? I just thought, like, when you said, like at the whim of your boss, like that could also totally be, and that's the mean thing if you're at the whim of your parent or your close caregiver, right? That really fucks you up for good. Not for good, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Not for good. That's true. There's hope. There's hope.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, otherwise, I would might just, I don't know, jump off a bridge. But no, we're not gonna do it. There's hope. But yes, yeah, okay. So okay, so we we stop telling that bullshit story to us, reframe it, and we go granular to okay, what do I want in this moment until we kind of like learn how to tune into ourselves again, yeah, and be like, oh, okay, and then maybe you go from moment to moment to day, week, month, quarter, whatever. Yes, yes, okay. So the the second part I thought was really interesting, right? Like you are afraid to lose something that you actually want more. Yeah. Okay. So that that seems like a total mind fuck. Tell us more.

Jessica Eley:

Um, some people refer to this as like a values conflict. So yeah, um, you like okay, I have four little kids, right? And a lot of my references are mom references. Um, so that's cool. For for a lot of people, for instance, it could be the kind of thing of like, I want to be there for my family, or it's like really important to me that I be present when my kids are really little, or something like that. Um, but like I also want money, right? Or I want um, or even like I want the mental fulfillment of like a stimulating career or something like that, right? And what happens is just basic self-expression. I mean, yes, there's not much self-expression of little kids. Let me be my own person, that would be great.

Jennifer Walter:

Let me go have a shit on my own, please.

Jessica Eley:

Yes. So what tends to happen is that unknowingly, we have made an assumption that one thing comes at the exclusion of the other, right? So if I get this, it will cost me that.

Jennifer Walter:

So if I get a lot of money, I cannot be a good mom because I'm not spending time with my children.

Jessica Eley:

Right. And it'll usually be more sneaky than that, right? Because anybody with like any form of self-awareness is probably gonna catch that. Um, but what it'll be is something like, well, I'm making X amount right now. This amount would actually be better. Um, but I'm working this much right now, and I'm not really willing to work more in order to reach that amount of money that I want to. And so then you start thinking about like all these squirrely ways that you could raise your income without spending more time on it, right? And you start like putting it out in your own shop front, like no. Right. But and like before you know, or or you're doing things, you're trying out things like pricing structures that feel like gross to you, or you try a sales script that makes you want to vomit a little bit so that you can close a sale, or you um sell into an industry that you have no interest in and it makes your soul die a little bit, or something like that, right? And all of this is because you think that you want the more money and you think that it's going to take more time, or that you have to do something that you don't actually want to do, right? It's always like this roundabout, like when we have made a decision about how to get a result that we want for ourselves too quickly, then we tend to minimize the options or the opportunities that are available to us. And then we run into things that are more important to us, and we're like, nope, sorry, I guess these things can't just happen at the same time. So I must be screwed.

Speaker 1:

I mean, that's the only logical conclusion to everybody.

Jennifer Walter:

Obviously, like I mean, obviously, like, I mean, yeah, don't need a coach to tell me that. But so I mean, it seems like so. We're kind of caught and in that black with white duality, it can only be this or that, instead of flipping the script and be like, why why cannot why can't it be and right, right? Like, why can't it be like more revenue and less work? Yes, people, right? So I I have a hunch, we're going now into very juicy topic, that is like one of my what is on my online business bullshit bingo list, like number one, which is abundance. Yes. So like let's give give us give us the tea about abundance. I mean, it there is there is all the life and reason behind the broad term of abundance, I feel it gets there's n well. I mean, the scientist in me wants to bring in like there is no real definition of abundance that's generally accepted. And that's causing a lot of problems, yes. Um, so how how do you approach um the whole like theme of abundance in a sense of like it's not this or that, it's and and how do you define abundance uh for yourself?

Jessica Eley:

I think of abundance as my ability to choose what it is that I want and the capacity to handle anything that comes along with that. Um, and I think it is both of those pieces that are important, and it's usually only the first piece that gets attention because it's like vision boards and fancy vacations and dollar bills. Um and like I'm down with that. Like I want you to have whatever the hell you want, right? Um, but again, if you're not getting it, it's probably because you you're not certain of your ability to handle everything that comes along with this. Like a lot of people have heard this expression of like more money, more problems, right? Yeah, and if you're thinking of it that way, then that shows me that you haven't expanded your capacity. You're expanding your ability to ask for whatever you want, and that's fine. But you don't get to cherry pick the parts that come with having more money, right? And so if this is this would be like me saying, like, I want to have four kids because like then we make a basketball team, and that's fun, right? We can do big family things together, but I don't want to deal with the fact that now there's a lot more laundry. Now I have to make four times as much dinner as I did for my husband and me, because kids eat way more than adults. Um you don't like you don't get to cherry pick the in air quotes good part. And I say that in air quotes because that is the very thing that indicates to me um how developed someone is in their actual sense of abundance, right? Because if you are still labeling shit good and bad, if you are still thinking in terms of like, want this, don't want that. This is okay, this is not okay. Um and again, it won't be that straightforward. You'll swear up and down, you're not doing it, but I'll catch it when you say something to me.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, right.

Jessica Eley:

But she does. Um if that is the line of thinking, then you're going to hold yourself back from getting, ironically, the quote unquote good things, right? Because there will be things that come along with that that you can't possibly anticipate now, right? A part of um the entire notion of a fear of success is because we don't know how life is going to change when you are successful. Like failing usually implies life stays the same. Life or or maybe you revert to like a step or two ago, right? But you already know how it's a familiar step, right? Like right. So if you fail, like not much has changed, you know how to deal with that, right? If you succeed, life changes in ways that you cannot conceptualize right now because you're not there. And with that will come again, air quotes, problems that you can't foresee right now. And so the more that you have expanded your capacity to just see those things as like something that comes along with the package, the more you will be able to welcome in the things that you want for yourself. And the narrower your idea is of what is acceptable, or what it is you can handle, or what it is that you are willing to experience in your life, the harder time you will have dealing with anything outside of that and consequently allowing yourself to grow.

Jennifer Walter:

Okay. So far, I I I follow and it makes sense, right? I mean, no cherry picking. Like that's probably the first thing you learn in kindergarten. No, not possible. Um but like So I I already hear, like, if this would be like a radio live show, I would already hear people calling in with like, oh, okay, so I'm ready for the money. Um, so how do I expand my capacity then?

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Jennifer Walter:

I get the non-cherry picking part. Okay, good, fine.

Jessica Eley:

Like there's a lot of aspects to this, right? Um, this is not the work that I do, but I'll tell you right now that if your nervous system can't handle it, you're like you will not uh experience more than what you have right now, right? Um because it will be perceived as threat, basically. Yeah. Yes. Right. So I mean, this is why we hear about you know, lottery winners who um are broke two years later, kind of thing, right? Because all they had the capacity for was what they already had and they revert back to that, right? Um, so I mean, there's so many prongs that you could come at this from, but I think the the thing to pay attention to is, or maybe one indicator of how well you're doing is how much are you labeling things as good or bad. And and I mean that in like the broadest sense possible. Um when when COVID started, I had some friends, right, for for much of Europe and the US and stuff, um, things kind of shut down like March-ish, right? And I had friends who were already optimistically making their plans for June, right? When this was all going to be over. We were all so young. Um, and I remember immediately telling people, like, oh no, mentally, like, I don't, I am pretending that this is lasting until 2022, right? And they were like, oh my god, Jess, I'm going to lose my mind. And I was like, no, like just assume that it's going to be shit. And if we're out of this by June, then like go on vacation. That's fantastic, right? And and like in doing that, I made completely different choices, right? I and and I set myself up for long-term success because I didn't have a need for things to be different than how they were right then. Right now, I have the exception.

Jennifer Walter:

Like, so basically, you can say I just put on my absolutely fucking pessimist goggles and expect everything to be shit. So I get pleasantly surprised. Yeah. So I get pleasantly surprised all the time.

Jessica Eley:

So, so the thing is, there are actually people who will be more comfortable um becoming abundant in that way, right? Where they will have like almost no expectations and and will just allow themselves to be pleasantly surprised. And in their being pleasantly surprised, they will come to expect that more and more, right? Yeah. That is one possibility. I don't encourage it or advise it. You kind of need both, right? Because if you just focus on let's have a ton of capacity so that we can deal with whatever awful things come our way, that's still not you claiming what it is you do want, right?

Jennifer Walter:

No, it's basically just like putting like make wrecking havoc on your nervous system because you're always prepared on like the next bad thing is gonna happen now.

Jessica Eley:

But this, I feel like this is an excellent point to point out that Jen is an Enneagram seven and I am an Enneagram four.

Speaker 1:

And this was not totally obvious to you anyway.

Jessica Eley:

You may see the differences between us. Yeah, but it's not demonstrando, yes. Yes, so to get back to your actual point, it wasn't that I was being pessimistic, it was that um I needed to tell myself, like, what would I need to do to accept things the way they are right now? Yeah, so I can tell that a person is labeling something good or bad when they fail to accept their present circumstances, right? So by that I mean like when you have the kind of attitude that says, this is unacceptable, this has to change. I I will not stand for this. Um it shows a very narrow capacity, right? Because you need things to be just so in order for you to believe that you will be okay, right? And the more you can practice saying, okay, I don't have to like this, okay. Even I, like introvert, homebody, doesn't like getting four kids up and ready for school, did not like the idea of being home with them 24-7, right? But being able to say, like, this is where we find ourselves, this is what is true in this moment, enabled me to carve out a realistic path to make that reality go the way that I wanted it to go. And what often happens is because we don't want to be low vibe or because we do want to practice being abundant, right? Yeah, we're not. Um, we refuse to accept what is. And what might be right now is actually I hate my job. Actually, I'm PMSing. Actually, my kid was a complete turd today, and I'm questioning this decision to have a child to begin with. Um, what like whatever it is, that is not low vibe. That is that is where you are right now. And this is your truth in that moment. And the in this moment part is the important part. Like, can you we're not encouraging wallowing either, right? It's not about like telling some big story about how like you had always questioned whether you should have a child or not, but your partner was really down with it. And so you caved. And this is just one more example of all the ways that you have not listened to yourself. Like, no, no, no. The story is not necessary and is not serving you because you done had the kid, okay? Or you scrapped the offer, or you did whatever the thing is, or you find yourself where you find yourself, right? You're PMSing because you ate like crap all month and your hormones are a little screwy. Okay, but we don't need those details. What is true is that right this second, I'm off. Right this minute, money is not coming in as easily as I would like it to. Right this minute, um, this client fired me, or nobody's opening my email, or I can't make XYZ work. Yeah. Okay, fine. So but get to a place where that's okay.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah. Okay. So in that, like we still need, I I feel we still need the pieces of why you your PMS is worse or your cli or your money's not coming in, but to a later point in time. Right. Some degree, right? Like as a like a healthy dose of reflection of like, hey, those are things that contributed to me feeling like shit because I haven't slept, I haven't eaten properly, whatever.

Jessica Eley:

This is the difference between making a story about something and looking at something factually, yes, right? Yes. So are you making it mean something, or are you talking about it the way, like, I don't know, but the way a police officer would write his report, or the way an attorney would talk, and well, they try to be persuasive, but right, like something very insurance expert. Insurance expert is this is what happened, yeah. Yes, and it's just this is what happened, and we don't need to like make it mean something, right? And that's not just how though, but how though practicing being okay regardless, noting your okayness, yeah, regardless of what's going on in the moment. Yeah, I'm breathing, I like this room, I have a friend that I can bitch to about these things. Um, like find your okayness in the midst of the in air quotes not okayness.

Jennifer Walter:

So going back to what we said before, like, oh okay, I am PMSing right now, or money is not coming in right now as I want. We stay like the money example because we're abundance and shit and shit.

Jessica Eley:

So like so the first thing then would be in that very moment to regulate your body, to regulate yourself, you're not getting anywhere without well, but here's the thing so uh because because this uh whole like notion of just sell band-aids does in fact make people money, but rarely actually works. Um, part of why it is so vital to be able to be really honest about where it is you find yourself is because you will continue to hose your nervous system if you cannot be honest about it. So people often do this with anger and um they will they will feel angry and they will try to like breathe through it, right? And you like you can't make that shit go away. And if you do, it will just keep coming back, right? If you um just try tiles on the rock will just get bigger and bigger and bigger. Yes, right, and and so you you can do the same thing with shame or with well, all primary big emotions, right?

Jennifer Walter:

I mean, yes, shame is one of the most damaging ones, the one that lingers the most even longer than anger.

Jessica Eley:

Yes, I mean shame is perfect for that example, and I find that like we often don't want to deal with those emotions because we feel that their origin is illogical, right? So um we this uh what did my I just like I just had an example from my husband. I was like, he did something that pissed me off, and but like it wasn't it wasn't actually that, right? And it wasn't actually him, and some piece of my head knew that, but I still felt the anger, right? And so, yes, the key was not taking it out on him, recognizing that what I think is the thing is not actually the thing, but the anger is here, and so what am I going to do with it, right? Um, I don't know why, because I haven't been PMSing recently, but I keep using that example. Like that it can be a gift to be made aware of such a raw emotion, even if it because it doesn't make sense, right? Like you just, I don't know, watch a dog being saved on an Instagram video and you're bursting into tears, and you're like, this doesn't even make sense, and and it doesn't, and yet, like if you can sit with that and let it be okay that you did in fact have those feelings, and I'm just going to watch what my body is doing, right? I don't need to change this. Part of the problem is that we label shame or anger bad, and again, if we can drop the label, good bad, well, happy good anger bad, right? So, like, let's make it go away as fast as possible, and we're gonna breathe and do like a calm meditation, and then we'll be okay again, yeah, right. And that still indicates a belief in good and bad, right? Yes, absolutely.

Jennifer Walter:

So I'm curious, let's circle a bit back to the the thing like oh the the the the doggy, the YouTube doggy, the sad YouTube doggy. Like, yes, I feel it. I mean, I don't know. I'm I'm a TV show crier, like I mean, I'm uh like I the whatever. I just did it yesterday. Yeah, I'm like so anyway. I mean, great outlet if you use it at that, but like I feel a part of that, like if whatever, it's kind of like a a little, I don't know, trigger is a silly word in that case, but it's kind of like a trigger that opens up, let's say all your emotions are in like a style in a cupboard kind of style, and each drawer has like emotion, shame, anger, sadness, whatever. And that little doggy makes the like the drawer of sadness go a bit open, yes, and everything that is inside and is on processed spills out like the box of Pandora. So it's not actually the doggy, maybe, but every like all your whole fucking history of sadness up to this point. Yeah.

Jessica Eley:

So see, but if you give meaning to there being a lot in your sadness drawer, why am I like this every month? This is ridiculous. Yeah, why can't I just be happy? Like my seven. Right? It's giving meaning to how you are, and the thing is, it's not that I don't want you to have less sadness in your proverbial cupboard. I would love that for you, right? But you don't need a change in order to be okay. And the more we can like step into that, the more we can recognize I can handle whatever it is that comes along with me watching YouTube, with me watching a show that's going to make me cry. Well, I mean, the thing is, right? Like, how granular do you want to get about this? Because you could get to the point where you're like, nope, can't do YouTube because every once in a while I bump into a doggy video that makes me cry and I'm uncomfortable with my sadness. So we're just not doing anything over there, right? But we that would sound ridiculous to many of us, but we do the exact same thing, just at a uh at a different application, right? Where it's like, oh, I'm not going to like let myself make more money because then my mom is going to say, it must be nice that you could buy yourself clothes, or because then my dad is going to be like, Well, your mother and I always wanted to go to Switzerland, but we couldn't, right? And yeah, right. So we hold ourselves back.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. So I'm like the the avoiding the doggy video. Yep. That I I have to give a bit of the backstory. I think it's it's it's interesting. I was watching the Instagram stories of someone, and I'm I don't know, I must say, uh, it's one of the three people I probably should unfollow, but I sometimes like to hate watch them.

Jessica Eley:

I'm just gonna let that go.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, I mean, yeah, you can mox me later and be like, Jan, what the fuck? But anyway, like so she's she's uh a business, business slash life coach, whatever. Um, and she says some great things. Not all of them, but some of them are pretty smart. Anyway, um, so she posted something about yeah, not watching the news because it would dysregulate her nervous system and stuff. Um, and it's kind of like doggy example, right? Like you're not watching that because it makes you super sad. And I'm like, yes, I get that to a point when you really feel this is not good for you, then don't. But at the same time, I'm like, bitch, you gotta know what's going on in the world. Like, I mean, or at least that's my projection, right?

Jessica Eley:

So my first question there was like, to what end? Like knowing what's going to do the world. Yeah. Well, see, here's the thing because you could watch it because you are used to making yourself miserable. You could watch it because you like the anger that it stirs up in you when you see people of a certain political persuasion doing shit you don't understand. Yeah, right. Or it confirms that nothing is changing, so you also don't have to change or whatever. I mean, for a million different reasons.

Jennifer Walter:

You could watch it, or you could watch it to be informed and like grateful that you have, I don't know, you're not currently living in Sudan, or you don't have any relatives there, or like yes, or you could use it to advocate or to know where it is you want your philanthropic efforts to go or whatever, right?

Jessica Eley:

This is the thing, it's like I can't tell you that a thing is going to be in air quotes good or bad for you, because only you can discern for yourself if you've practiced it, if it's a good thing I'm doing or a bad thing I'm doing. Yes. Are you doing it to just confirm how it is you are, or are you doing it because it's shaping you into the kind of person you want to be?

Jennifer Walter:

Okay. So if I mean, if you cannot tell me, thanks very much, like you should know that in this story. I know, I know, I know, I know. I've been on the receiving end of like, I cannot tell you, yeah, I know, god damn it. Um, like, um, but give us a few pointers so we can distinguish for ourselves if this is actually good or bad. Because I I mean, I I'm I'm I mean it takes one to know one, right? Like there are a lot of things who maybe in a moment feel good to you. Um that if you look at it long term, may not.

Jessica Eley:

So how that's why you said good and bad, and I did not. That is very true.

unknown:

See?

Jennifer Walter:

Oh, damn it. Okay. I'm go, I'm I'm bumping down a level from my master's splinter level awareness. Damn it. I feel like in a Donkey Kong game of the 80s, you know, where Donkey Kong is upstairs and it's rolling his barrels, and you're like chomp, chimp, chum. Yeah, okay. I'm knocking down to level one. Thank you very much. Okay. How can we distinguish for ourselves if we label something?

Jessica Eley:

Like, this is not like better or worse. I am not like sitting on some kind of high horse over here. Like, I mess this shit up all the time. I'm just particularly skilled at noticing it in other people, right? Um, I'm particularly skilled at catching the words of others. Um being raised by narcissists has its advantages because you start catching every word.

Jennifer Walter:

You gotta be you gotta be good with clues and hints and vibes and right.

Jessica Eley:

So, um, to your actual question, what do we how do we know, right? Yeah, let's erase the let's let's leave the erased narcissist part for another episode. That's a different episode. So are you reacting to your body? This is why we can't use good and bad, right? Because you could just be reacting to your body. My body feels sad, tired, so my body feels stressed. I will go eat the tub of Haganda's, right? Um that's not necessarily what is good for you, right? Because it is a reaction rather than an intentional choice. And the thing is, like you can make intentional choices that actually hose you, right? But if it was intentional, you will understand why you did that thing and you will be able to make an intentional choice to pivot out of that thing that is not actually what it is you want. So rather than good bad, I think of it more like: are you being proactive? Are you being intentional? Are you conscious of what it is you're choosing and why? Do you understand the underlying motivation for your decision? Or is it just like, this is what I felt like doing. This is what seemed right at the time. I'm not even sure why, right? I read this thing and it seemed like the thing to do. I watched the news. I any I mean, we can react to anything. I can just as well sit down and eat a tub of hot and does because it sounds delicious and it's been a hot minute. Yeah. Right. This is why I can't tell a person, but you have to start feeling like what is the reason behind my decision? Um, in prep work, which you are obviously familiar with, I talk about asking yourself why over and over and over and over. Why are you doing or why are you making the decision that you're making or the choice that you're making? And at some point, you're either going to kind of why yourself into a circle and you're going to understand that like you're doing this because someone else said so, or because you've been conditioned to think this is the right thing to do, or because like it just seems right, but you can't really put your finger on it, or because there's some kind of underlying fear, right? If I don't, well then blank will happen, right? Or you just don't know any better. Yes, exactly. Right? You've been I haven't considered any other option, so I guess I've got to, right? The other possibility is you start asking why over and over and over, and eventually you get really annoyed with me asking why, and you say, Because I want to, okay? Like I just want to, and that's when you know, like, oh, okay, well, you just want to, then like go with my blessings, right? Yeah, you're just choosing to do the thing, as opposed to being driven by something you don't want.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, that's the whole of like why your kind of like energy or vibe you're bringing into the situation matters. I feel like there's another layer like as well to this, right? Like, if you know you did something in a situation, it's kind of like you need to know that this was the best you could at the time. Yes, right. Like, I mean, it took me quite a while to figure out that since I haven't learned or I haven't been modeled regul like nervous system body regulation as a kid, yeah. Thanks, mom, thanks dad. Um dad also society at large. Society at large, but thanks narcissistic parents. But um, like I used food to regulate myself, yes, right? Like starchy food, carbohydrates, woo, doo, ooh, feeling good. Yeah, um, so that kind of and like I need to I I had to or I was in the process of accepting that that was the best I could at that time, otherwise my whole body would have giggled like and that again if you see certain things happening over and over again, like sometimes there is also like like a real biological reason for things. Yes, yes, of course. Like I mean, I recently learned like I don't know, I might also be in HDHD club. Woohoo, who knows? Like it's still ongoing, the church's out. So that would make total sense. Then that obviously that you have you needed some sort of self-regulation, and that's harder, and you went to something else, like it's really yeah, as you said, like looking at that and then knowing, and I feel that's another conundrum mindfuck to not like shit on yourself for the things you did, right?

Jessica Eley:

So, I mean, we've all heard like what got you here won't get you there.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What you got to do, your first 10k will not get you 100k much, blah blah.

Jessica Eley:

Like it's we have got to stop centering everything around money.

Jennifer Walter:

Like, no, no, I I was just I was no, I I get it.

Jessica Eley:

That is exactly how people use it, yeah.

Jennifer Walter:

Exactly, yeah, right.

Jessica Eley:

I mean, I was just like, I I I have to like it was the silver platter was there, and I just but yeah, it's it's oh okay like the this means that we can also use this retroactively, though, right? Is that like the strategies that you have now weren't necessarily available to you then, right? Like in the example of you being a kid and finding safety in food, right? Well, if I'm not going to be hugged enough, I can at least have a full enough belly that my body won't die, right? Well, that's not how you think of it as a 20, 30, 40-year-old, right? Because you understand you could feed yourself no matter what, but when you're a little kid, you don't depend on your food source, which is your caregiver. Like, yes, right. And so we when we are learning to give ourselves grace, it is understanding that the level of thinking that you are reflecting on your choices in the past was not available to you then, right? And on the same token, the level of decisions that you will be able to make in the future, you cannot possibly conceptualize right now. And so the things that you are doing right now, the more you practice not giving those things meaning, the more that you practice understanding that those things are just serving a purpose, right? The easier it is to let go of those things. So if you are overly married to podcasting, right? Because like, oh, this is how people hear about me, and then this is this is my magical silver bullet on better, like better fucking work. Right. Or else, but then and and if it does right now, that's great. And in five years, when the landscape has completely changed, if you are still married to this idea of like, yeah, but I'm a podcaster, right? You're either not going to allow yourself to do the thing that does work to get the result that you want, or you're not going to allow yourself to just do the podcasting because you enjoy it and you want to do it.

Jennifer Walter:

Or whatever other thing you want to do now, right? You're also kind of like crippling your own change, your own possibility to change.

Jessica Eley:

Yes. Right. So this is the thing, is like this all relates to this meaning making that we've been talking about, is because the more significance we give to our decisions right now, the harder it will be in the future when those decisions are no longer serving us, right? And the more meaning you have given to your decisions right now, the harder you're going to be on yourself for the decisions that you've made in the past.

Jennifer Walter:

Enneagram seven disclaimer I need a mean, meaning making machine mug.

Speaker 1:

Okay, we can do that. No, it's possible.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah. Which which uh that's was also a bit of an insider because um in Jess's uh online course, work, school, prep work, we have an entire imaginary merch shop. So it's true. It goes into the merch shop. Um so I feel kind of like we we have come like beautifully full circle with not making meaning, not trying to pretend we have any fucking idea what's gonna happen in the future. And instead of having an outside in definition or definition building way, we gotta go flip it and be inside out. And having the knowing that whatever like gets thrown at us, we can handle it.

Jessica Eley:

Yes. And here's what I'll say you need both, right? But part of why I talk so much about the side that I'm talking about is because the flip side gets talked about a lot. You could go buy a few hundred different workshops on your vision boards and how to manifest and and and and and to some degree that is true. Like to some degree, those things will work. And to some degree, you do need the skill set of being able to say, like, this is what I'm going for, this is what I want for myself, this is where I'm heading. Um, this like the ownership piece is just as important. It's just that the ownership piece is already emphasized for most of us, right? And and so, like, it's not just about that. Yeah. Right. Um, and the more we can weigh, right? Like, am I having an ownership problem or am I having like an uh a capacity or an attachment problem, right? The more we know which way to lean, right? So, like you labeling me pessimistic, I it is harder for me to own what it is that I want. I am naturally just really comfortable with shit, right? I naturally tolerate a lot. Um, and so I know that about myself. And that means that I have to stretch myself in the direction of like allowing myself to say, yeah, but this is what I want. Yeah, this is what I'm going for. No, I don't know if it's going to work. I don't know if it's going to happen. But if I've really like decided that that is what I want, then I will work it until it works. Right. And because I have such a tremendous capacity, I should be able to do that. Like I should be able to get knocked down 20 times and say, yeah, I still want this thing. And so here we go, 21. Right. And like, but that's the trick is knowing which way you lean and then making sure that you're accounting for that.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah. Which yeah, which always starts with I don't know, either get a big top of Haganda's or a big bottle of red wine and start figuring shit out.

Jessica Eley:

That is certainly one method.

Jennifer Walter:

I mean, not say that's the recommended way to do that. Right. So I mean, one way for sure that I could recommend going at this is working with you. So where can people find you? Lexi, like I'm like, I am it's very slick. I know, right? I'm like, ooh, I'm impressed by my sometimes, like some days I'm impressed myself, and other days, I don't know. I I put shit in the oven and like I don't know, whatever.

Jessica Eley:

You don't know what comes out, yeah.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah. Or I don't know. I some some like last maybe that was also that maybe that was my kid, but I found like keys in the in the oven, and I'm like, oh, I don't, I don't, I know, I well, I don't know. Miss it's whatever. But how can people find you online, chess?

Jessica Eley:

Okay, so the best is to go to my website, jessicaealie.com. Um, I have a resources page there. It also like links up to all of the other podcast episodes I've done before. Some people enjoy binge listening to me, so I've been told. Um, I am also an Instagram stories person. You can also find the very diagram that kicked off this entire conversation um on my Instagram, which is I am Jess Ely.

Jennifer Walter:

And I always feel like it just needs a disclaimer because Jen uh Jen's Jess's stories are they're they're good.

Speaker 3:

They're a handful of blog posts.

Jennifer Walter:

They're it they're fucking substacks or medium posts. Like, I don't know. Um, so you're you I don't know, Instagram should invent like an a feature where you just have to press the like this the Instagram story once and it just stays that way because yes, you're pressing in Jess's story for like five minutes until you read and processed the entire fucking post, and it's like you know, I hear that some people just take a screenshot. Oh, but those are the very smart people. Damn, true. So Jess, thank you so much for being up. I always have I almost forgot. I always have one last question. What book are you currently reading?

Jessica Eley:

Um, wait, what am I reading? Well, I'm reading a few things. Um, I'm reading Harry Potter again. Um which one? Uh I'm on three. Um no reason, no particular reason why. Um, I also recently dusted off a course in miracles again. Um, it's probably actually where I really learned this whole like and by learned I mean like picked up very slowly over time, right? There's no like the book is a lot, the book is a lot.

Jennifer Walter:

Like it cannot be, I'm just gonna sit down and read this book.

Jessica Eley:

Like, oh god, no. Um, but I I a lot of my like learning to not make things mean things probably came from there. Um, and then just like some smuddy books, because you know, I have like the headphones on, and it's how I pretend that I'm not taking care of my four kids. Though if I read too many smuddy books, I may end up with a fifth kid. So maybe I should stop that.

Jennifer Walter:

Yeah, okay, yeah. That well, I mean, depends on where you want to go, right? Like true, true. Four is a good number, I think. True. I mean, I would always ask, is five the not that that number where you need like a bigger car, or could five squeeze in the current car? Or do you need like to rebuild your house? Because, or would five fit in? Okay, five, you gotta go live in the basement. I'm sorry. You were not planned. Okay, well, we're gonna banter off now. Um, yes, thank you so much for being on the scenigroup podcast. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. And just like that, we've reached the end of another journey together on the scenic root podcast. Thank you for spending time with us. Curious for more stories or in search of the resources mentioned in today's episode, visit us at scenigrootpodcast.com for everything you need. And if you're ready to embrace your scenic group, I have got something special for you. Step off the beaten path with my scenic root affirmation cart deck. It's crafted for those moments when you're seeking courage, yearning to trust your inner voice, and eager to carve out a path authentically, unmistakably yours. Pick your scenic root affirmation today and let it support you. Excited about where your journey might lead? I certainly am. Remember, the scenic road is not just about a destination, but the experiences, learnings, and joy we discover along the way. Thank you for being here, and I look forward to you. Work to seeing you on the Cine group again.

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Jennifer Walter | Swiss Sociologist & Mental Health Advocat

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