The Sober Butterfly Podcast

Wake-Up Call to Wellness: How Sobriety Transformed Melissa McGovern's Life

• Nadine Mulvina

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In this episode of the Sober Butterfly Podcast, host Nadine Mulvina welcomes guest Melissa McGovern to share her transformative journey to sobriety. Melissa recounts how her heavy drinking, particularly during the pandemic, led to various health issues. Despite initial attempts and setbacks, a wake-up call from her doctor finally motivated her to commit to a sober life. Melissa delves into the benefits she's experienced, such as improved health, clarity, and a renewed sense of purpose. Now a certified alcohol-free coach, she helps others navigate their paths to sobriety. With poignant anecdotes and practical advice, Melissa illustrates the profound changes sobriety has brought to her life.

We also discuss:

  • loss and grief
  • overcoming limiting beliefs
  • finding clarity in sobriety
  • asking for help
  • inner knowing 

Watch the full episode on YouTube

https://youtu.be/RuHB94xdUX8

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the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Hello, hello, and welcome to the Sober Butterfly Podcast. I am your host, Nadine Mulvina, and today we are joined with a very special guest. Melissa, welcome to the show. How are you today?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Nadine. I am doing so well. Thank you for having me on today.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

I am so honored to have you on today, and I kind of just wanna jump into your story because I know that you have so many gems to share with us. And I wanna start with the beginning. Is that okay?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

sure. There's a lot to cover.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

There's a lot to cover. Let's get into it. So I know that you mentioned that you were never a moderate drinker. Same. Same. I don't even know what that word means, that your drinking really escalated during the pandemic. So I would love to learn from you, what did drinking look like before versus during that time?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Well before the pandemic, actually, right before I was four months sober,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

yeah, you know, probably about 20 17, 20 18 was when I really started to get very sober, curious, and, know, started hearing podcasts about it. That book came out by Ruby yet? Well, no, actually sober Curious by Ruby

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

yes.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

And I heard. One year no beer was a, an English campaign. Andy Ramage was on the Rich Roll Podcast talking about his new book, the 28 Day, remove Alcohol Experiment. And I thought, know, this is something that is calling me to try. I had periods where I would see my doctor. And my liver enzymes would be slightly elevated she would recommend removing alcohol for a few weeks and come back and retest my blood.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

the first time she did that, it was, you know, over Labor Day weekend and I thought, oh my God, you know, not drinking over Labor Day weekend. does that mean? What does that look like?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Okay. But I did it and in those three weeks felt amazing. Like it was a real glimpse of what life could look like and feel like without alcohol, and it was really beautiful and amazing, and I felt so good. I lost some weight. I slept better. just felt revived. There was always a part of me that not imagine it not in my life for the long term, so I would always dip my toe back in and try to moderate my drinking, and 2019. were, you know, especially ramped up in the fall of that year. I had my niece's wedding out in Colorado where I just, you know, went, went for it big time. Almost didn't make the wedding. Honestly, if she would've gotten married at noon, I probably wouldn't have made it because I was a wreck from the night before, you know? And you blame it on the altitude? The altitude, right. Ooh. Yeah. It had nothing to do with all those shots from the night before. But in, in November of 2019, I just had one of those days, one of those nights where I, I woke up the next day and I was like, I am done. This is enough. I am so sick of my own shit. And I snapped a selfie and I leaned into that program that one year, no beer and.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah, it involved like a daily email and a video and a Facebook group.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

oh, wow.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

So, you know, there was some, there was some accountability

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

y.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Accountability and community it sounds like.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

you know, you could lean into it as much as you wanted. You could

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Okay.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

as often as you wanted to. And, and I did, you know, some people did often and, and quite a bit. But, you know, I, I formed relationships on there that I, that I felt held me accountable. But then on March 12th, 2020 in New York, I'm sure

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

I was there. Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

No one knew what the hell was going on in the city.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

End of the world as far as I was concerned. Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

And

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Felt like it.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

and I went out for dinner that night and I, it was exactly four months to the day and I said,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Whoa.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

I think I'm, I want a beer. Like something said to me like. I don't know what's going on. This feels out of control and crazy and weird and you know, can I just have a drink to forget about it? And

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Take the edge off the.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah. he did say to me, have a beer. And then the very next thing he said was, do you think you can have just one?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh, wow. He shoulda opened with that part.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Right.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

beer like he shoulda been. Do you think you could just have before, but yeah, I get it. No, that's, that's powerful. Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

And I, you

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

What did you say?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

night, that night, I did have just one,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Okay. Okay.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

and then, you know, the few days after that I probably didn't have any.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

and then, you know, like it does, it just slowly creeps back into your life. And I started a side hustle in the pandemic.'cause I, I lost my job. I was working with. An elderly woman at the time in her, in her building that was, you know, for residents of, you know, seniors and they locked down. So she, she got whisked away upstate with her son, which was a good thing. And. I was outta work. My husband was home. My two teen teenage children were home. You know, it was, it was not normal. And, I started making, making cloth face masks, which was

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh, cool.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

a cool little side hustle that I, I had an old sewing machine tucked away, and it kept me really busy, and it kept me creative. But you know what? It also kept me deserving of. open a bottle of wine at five o'clock

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

after sitting

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

you worked hard. Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

you know, seven hours a day. So, and then we had, we had some real personal loss. You know, I, I know a lot of people had loss in the pandemic. A lot of, a lot of it was COVID related, but we lose sight of, of, of regular loss during that

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

My, my mother-in-law in. And July of 21 was diagnosed with a cancer. She had a tumor wrapped around her spine and

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh man.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

gone 10 days later.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

you.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

tough. That's very hard. Were you able to see her before she Oh, that's

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

all had

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

heartbreaking.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

down to see her, and it ended up being her memorial that we were there for. It was, it was a huge shock. And, and, you know, and she had gone through, it was uterine cancer that she had gone through, like, you know, six months prior and she had clear scans and the last scan she had was maybe two months before she had this. So it, it came out, came outta nowhere and she just woke up one day and she couldn't, she couldn't move her legs. And she was, you know, 82, 83 years old and she. you know, treatment would've just her maybe a couple more months and would've left her miserable for the last few months of her, her life. So, so she, you know, she went with her family around her in, in the end, her siblings, and, but it, it, it was a big blow to our, our whole family to lose a matriarch. So suddenly

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

And at that same time my best friend. My t Scott, someone who I moved to New York with in 1995, I, I was a theater professional years ago. That's what brought me to New York originally. And he was as well, and he had struggled with alcohol use abuse for years and years, and. He also was HIV positive and it was around the same time that we lost my mother-in-law where he telling me that his, his liver was failing him, his organs were failing him, and he wasn't sure how much time he had left, but that he was gonna try to be on a transplant list and, you know, really gonna. Try to as long as he could, and he wasn't living in New York at the time. He was living in Ohio. So it was hard for me to judge what kind of shape he was in. We spoke on the phone a lot, but he didn't really want me to see how he looked because he was embarrassed about. he looked. He was very vain. He was a,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

he was a gay theater guy, so you can imagine.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

that, yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Exactly. So we kept in touch and in, in April of 2022, at this point, he was, he was going into the hospital regularly to have his, I forget the name of the procedure. Yeah, well, not to had drained, you know, his,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

drained. Okay. Okay.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

from his

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh, I see. Okay.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

needed to be

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Okay. Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

build up it. He, his, his and livers liver and kidneys were not filtering anything. So

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Was this, was this a related, sorry, to ask Melissa, but was this related to complications around heavy drinking? Or his HIV diagnosis.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

know, it was a combination. It didn't, it didn't help that they coincided,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Okay. Okay.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

the medication he was taking for his HIV needed to be filtered

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah, yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

on top of that also needed to be filtered. And

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

know, and any kind of you eat, like it all goes through organs. So. It, it just wasn't working. And by the time he found out that this was happening, it was too late. You know, so when people, it's really hard, like it, I, I've turned into a, a bit of a zealot with don't wait too long.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Right.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Because it can be too late. Don't wait till you wake up and see that your eyes are yellow or your, your skin started starting to turn yellow because he, he was a year sober Bef.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Was he

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Before

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

yeah before I lost him, he went in, in, in April of 22 into the hospital to have this regular procedure and he was admitted to the emergency room because he had sepsis and pneumonia and he, he never left the hospital. He, he passed away in the hospital six days later and he was 54 years

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

I'm so sorry. It's young. I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. So like you have these two prolific losses of people that meant so much to you back to back.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

And how did you cope? How did you deal with that?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Well, I didn't start training for a marathon,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Fair.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

You know, no. You know, when t was in the hospital and I said, I even said to myself, I was like, do I go see him? Do I go and see a person means so much to me dying of this horrible condition looks like do I, do I go and witness this with my own eyes? Will this Get through to me that I need, need to make major changes in my life

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

because he knew I struggled. He knew that, that I had stopped drinking those four months before the pandemic, he had asked me about it in the pandemic. I told him no, that I, you know, was kind of back on it again. I wanted to tell him before he passed away that I, I felt I was drinking too much and I couldn't, couldn't tell anyone. That I, that I felt like I was drinking too much. when he was in the hospital, I, I, you know, part of me thought like, will that make it click?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

I couldn't go, I couldn't do that to him. I know he wouldn't have appreciated me seeing him in that state. And I

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

don't think that that's like the last picture that I needed to see my head of him. I didn't. And when he passed it was, it was a huge blow. And it didn't kick me into any kind of, let's get sober right now. Action. In fact, it just pushed me into let's do everything that he couldn't do because he's dead now and you're not. So let's live it up. Let's. Drink whatever you want. Let's eat whatever you want.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Let's do whatever the fuck you want.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

that's exactly what I did for next 15 and a half months. And by the summer of 23, I. Did not like the way I looked. I did not, I would see myself in pictures and I hated the image looking at, looking back at me. what was even worse than the image was the thought in my head of that maybe this was just the way my life was supposed to be.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh man, that's hard.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

You

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

That's tough.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

this was just, maybe I was meant to live a mediocre life being heavier. A lot of people do, right?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

around with a, with a smile on their face and we, you know, we don't know how, what they're carrying inside.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Absolutely.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

maybe I, maybe that was supposed to be me and, and that was scarier than the actual image. And when I started waking up in the summer of 23, feeling like wondering if you know what would happen if I didn't get out of bed that day.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

it was definitely time to start addressing what was going on. And I knew exactly why I was feeling that way. I knew that alcohol is a depressant. I've never felt that way before.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Never. I've had

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

my mom, I've had close friends deal with depression a lot.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

always been the kind of, you know, come on, what's your problem?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah. Rally. Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

got it. Never got it. And I was like, holy shit. This must be it. This has gotta be it. I couldn't believe it. And so when

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

I made an appointment with my, with my doctor. In mid-August I had to see her, I had to have a medication refilled. I couldn't like telehealth her anymore. You know, doctors were like, sorry, you gotta come in and see me now.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

only get away with that stuff for early in the pandemic. And I went and saw her and, and she had, you know, she remembered my, my stuff. She remembered that group I was with and enzymes that had creeped up. And, and I don't know what it was about my doctor, but I could, I could tell her, I could tell her that I thought I was drinking too much. And she is the kind of doctor that hurt me. She didn't judge me.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

That's important.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

She didn't

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

me. She didn't blow it off. You know, she didn't undermine it. She really heard me. She talked about different options. You know, aa naltrexone, I'd never even heard of Naltrexone.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

And Naltrexone for folks who may be unaware, is that a medication used to help people scale back with their drinking? Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

It's used to curb your, your cravings for alcohol. I had gone in there knowing that semaglutide, which are

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

much in the news

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

those cravings,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

know, 18 months ago. They weren't as much, but I had heard something and, and so I brought that up to her and she said, yeah, that's true, but it's also a diabetes medication and you wouldn't be able to get it because you're not diabetic. Anyway, she said, let's take your blood work and see what happens. And I knew I was heavy already'cause I,'cause I could see that on the scale. I knew my blood pressure was really through the roof. So when I got the blood work back the next day I remember exactly where I was in the park, you know, ready to go in. I had resumed working with my senior lady downtown at her residence. My blood panel was just horrific. It was really. Shocking. I wasn't really shocked by it though because I knew exactly what I was doing to my body.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

right.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

My liver enzymes were. Through the roof. And know what, I like to say this number out loud because Keeps me accountable. You know those, those two numbers, there's an A ST and an A LT

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

between five and 40, I think are are the normal range. of those numbers with me was 1 95.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Whoa.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Wait, it

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

That I'm not, I hope I'm, that's my actual reaction, like, whoa. Okay.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

the other one was three 11.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

And so when your doctor saw that. What was her response?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Her response was in an email. These are the highest liver enzymes you've ever had.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Okay,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

And

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

whoa, like what I just said. Okay.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

My cholesterol was also the highest it's ever been. My, like I said, my weight, my, my A1C, my glucose. I was pre-diabetic. I had been for nine years. what I went in to get my prescription refilled for I was veering on the range. I was at a 6.6. Diabetic is 7.0 and. She said, you need to make drastic behavioral changes. I swear I'm gonna get this tattooed on my arm one day. You need to change your diet, right? Re refine carbs. Need to get scaled way back. You need to move your body more. Try to stop drinking drastic behavioral changes. I want to see you again, no less than three months. So I made an appointment. 11 weeks. I gave myself 11 weeks and I, I said to myself, Nadine, I was like, I'm not going to be another American statistic of being put on a statin, put on a blood pressure medication being com diabetic at age 51 years old.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

was like, fuck this.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

I said, I am not a moderate drinker. I never have been. I'm never gonna be.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

I swear to God. I like, know, if you believe in Jesus or whoever, I gave it up

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

right then and there.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Wow. That's powerful. It sounds like you were kind of scared straight and felt motivated. And I kind of wanna backtrack a bit to the depression piece because depression really, once it sinks its claws into you, like will you wanna talk about, I. Control. Control over how you feel, your emotions, your state of mind, your physical, like sometimes viscerally in your body not being able to get up. And it sounds like a big part of it that was driving that depression and that period of that fuck it moment. We've all been there, right? Where we're just like, fuck it, I'm just gonna do what I want because life is short. But it sounds like a big part of that was grief and you grieving extensively for your friend and for your mother-in-law and. I think you just get to that place of despair where it's like, well, what's the point? But fast forward, I think to your point, like you knew that the numbers were gonna be high. You knew that a change had to happen, but sometimes it's super motivating to have like, I don't know how you feel, but me personally, Melissa, I'm like, gimme a project. Like I need a will. I need a will to like go on. Sometimes I need something to pour into. If someone. Doubts me or someone tells me I can't do something that fuels me sometimes. Especially if you're in a low place, like you need a reason or you need something to project into the future that you can work towards, even if it's not like the true healing that needs to get done, like you're not there yet. Like it gives you something like a goal to work towards. So it sounds like, I could be wrong, but it sounds like what I'm hearing from your, your story or parts of your story right now.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Yes. I

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah. Yeah. Relatable.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

fucking go.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

was. And I, I, I put the pedal to the metal and I started. Walking, I started going to my bougie gym that I belong to

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Equinox.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

You know it,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yep.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

you know, I paid for this gym that I would go to like three times a month to take a, a dance class and tell myself this limiting belief that I'm too old to work out and not have fun when I do it. Like

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

You go get your eucalyptus towels,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

right.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

take advantage of

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

those amenities.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

But I got moving. I came home and I, I changed my diet. I moved out a lot of dairy, refined carbs, all that bullshit went, I just ate more vegetables and proteins and just, just the simple act of moving my body. I walked every day. I was up with the sun I mean, there was a time

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

I love that.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Park. I, I live right on Riverside, drive

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

And

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

in the summer of 23, I took a walk, tried to, you know, I walked to about 96th Street and I was so gassed when I was coming home that I took a bus home and,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah, we've been there. We've all been there.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

and now, and I think about that all the time when I'm like, you are never gonna see me taking a bus home again.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mostly when it's cold, I'm like, okay, forget that. But yeah,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Well, I

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

it's like, no, I get it.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

I was, I was, I was

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Tired. Yeah. Gassy. I, I got you. I got you.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

So I, I really like, I got busy and I noticed change immediately within three weeks.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

That's beautiful.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

losing weight I think at six weeks. You know, I remember it was my birthday six weeks into it, and I thought, okay, you know, and I visited friends down in Florida. knew he had a bottle of my favorite wine in the fridge out in the garage. I never once went out in that garage and opened up that. That refrigerator,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

I love.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

you know, I had to move my daughter into college. It was not an easy, you know, stressful things pop up. I stayed focused. I planned for the future. I, I looked forward to some things. I put some things on the calendar. I went back and saw that doctor 11 weeks to the day, and honestly thought I was getting ozempic on the black market when she saw me.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Sorry.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

It is true story.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh my gosh. She's like, who is your connect? I I'll not report. Just tell me the truth. Oh, that's so funny.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

no,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

And, and I couldn't wait to give her my blood. I was like, here, open my veins, take

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Wow.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Liver enzymes were all back to normal. Those

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Whoa.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

those super high liver enzymes. 11 weeks, no alcohol. Cha switching your diet, moving your body back to normal. My cholesterol dropped 50 points,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Whoa.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

zero points. My, my blood pressure was down my A1C I was, I was at a 6.6. It came down to 5.5. It was below pre-diabetic.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Crazy. What?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

I lost 27 pounds.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

That's incredible. That's incredible. And this was all healthy. You weren't over restricting. You were just living your body. You stopped drinking. Okay. That's insane. In the best way possible. Whoa.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

And I felt so good. And I walked out of there and I was like, there was, there was no part of me that wanted to pick up a bottle of wine and celebrate that night. I just wanted to keep going. I wanted to keep learning about myself. I wanted to keep exploring sobriety. I wanted to find community. I wanted to just see where this, if this was gonna be my life,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah. Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

was gonna be my life.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

That's incredible. And at this time, because you mentioned that, you know, going into that appointment prior to the 11 week transformation, you disclosed to your doctor, like, I, I think I have a problem with alcohol. And she gave you, he or she gave you great resources. You also confided in your friend who passed away that, you know, you also felt like you had a problem. Kind of backtracking a little bit here, but in the pandemic, you also mentioned both your kids were home, your husband was home. Close quarters. I'm imagining New York like, you know, everyone's home essentially. So did anyone pick up on, oh, I think Mom slash Melissa, she's drinking quite a bit, or was it something that you were hiding or able to give off this level of control with those closest to you?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah, the last answer,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah. Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

ever. I would've loved people to sit me down,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Suspect. Oh my gosh.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

It

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Really?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah. And it never happened. And actually, you know, I have my own podcast and I interviewed my husband. He was my first guest

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh my God, I have to listen to that. Okay, cool.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

to ask him

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

like that,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

you close to talking to me? Was

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

What did.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

going to happen? And he said he was close to it.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Oh, okay.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

you know, I've got a husband that like. Lets me have to figure my things out.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

wanna, it's a fine line between pushing and pulling.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

You know, there, there are people, there are women like us

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

their shit together,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

right To a fault sometimes.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah. To a fault, to our own, at our own detriments or sometimes wellbeing. Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

I mean, it can be, it's a really good thing. But when then, and I think it's harder in that circumstance to then ask for help

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

because,'cause then we come off looking than we appear.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Needy. I'm not married, but I've been in relationships and I get afraid of feeling like I need someone to, to help me. Like I, I'm very self-reliant. I'm very independent. I've always been that way. And so of course like I connect with people, but I like to feel like I have a level of control. And I don't know if that's healthy, but like I relate to that. Yeah. So. He was close to, but he didn't. That's interesting. And was it part of that, like a byproduct of just the times, like, because everyone in the pandemic, it felt like

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

sure.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

copious amounts, right? It wasn't weird, like it's like, oh yeah, like

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

No.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

is the rite of passage. This is unprecedented. Like all the things, right? Mm-hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah, I think, I think it was very normal and we're, we're figuring that out right now. You know, like women especially, I mean, you're younger than I am, but women my age forties and fifties are coming to terms with the fact that the pandemic was super rough for

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah. Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

coffee cup was full of coffee. Kept getting, you know, change. You know, the, the coffee kept changing, you know, wine was going in the coffee earlier and

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

in the day.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah, absolutely. I'd be on, oh, I don't wanna expose myself too much, but let's just say I was not waiting until 5:00 PM to start drinking in the pandemic. You know? Only because I, I'm a public servant and I wanna keep my job. But anyway, yeah, I very much relate to that. Like, yeah, it was, but it was also like I. Maybe celebrated, it is a strong word, but it was very much like on social media. I would constantly see funny content, which that's the thing about humor. I love humor, but like oftentimes you can, you know, sway people, disarm'em convince them, manipulate people through humor. And so I would relate heavily to like different. Drinking accounts and sober or not sober, very opposite influencers who were not sober, who were promoting this idea that like, these are dark times and we have to do what we have to do to get through them and it's okay. Like to drink out of a Yeti mug. To your point, you know, wine at 9:00 AM and that's toxic.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

It, it

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

it's just.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

it is. And you know, in New York and all of a sudden restaurants were delivering wine with your takeout. You, you could walk up to a, a takeout and get a, a, people were drinking on the street like it was Mardi Gras, you know?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

I wasn't actually in the pandemic for the beginning or New York for the beginning of the pandemic. So going back to that March 20th, once school shut down, I was like, oh, I'm out of here like that is, I know what's about to go down. Like schools are out of session for an undisclosed amount of time. So I went to Florida where my family lives and. You can only imagine, I'm talking Miami here, like in the pandemic. What pandemic. That's how it felt. So like liquor stores were open, that was considered an essential place of business or whatever they were called. Like I was drinking, I was drinking in the pandemic.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Right.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

but yeah, it, it's crazy to think that that was our normal, that was our every day.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

then on top of that, to add like to the other stresses of life and not being able to say goodbye to people who have passed, whether it was related to covid or not, it's, it impacts us on such a deep level beyond just like the grieving and the loss, like. Psyche. It's like, I'm not, okay. How do I get through this? But it sounds like you were able to do some deep healing and it sounds like you had to have that major wake up call those high numbers from your doctor to hear that, to motivate you. So I'm, I'm just so happy that you got there, Melissa, and I'm sure you didn't stop after the 11 weeks. It sounds like you were motivated to keep going.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah, I've maintained, you know, I've, I've maintained, I've gained a little weight back, but but you know, when you, your, your face changes so much when you've, if

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

to like a bloated red face,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

it, it's just amazing. Like, even, you know, people that remove alcohol, even if they don't lose weight, their face changes.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yes. That part.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

inflammation goes down almost instantly. And, you

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

pictures, old pictures, and, and believe me, I keep those pictures. I have a, I have an album on my phone, old drunk pics, and I keep those pictures. I want those pictures. I wanna keep reminders of those because I don't ever wanna go back to those. Let me tell you.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

I don't ever want to go back. And I, I like that you brought up the point because I've, I was pretty much the same size when I was drinking and actually when I got sober, I. It was triggering for me in the beginning because I was craving so much sugar because as you probably know, like when you drink in excess, the way I did, your body metabolizes the alcohol and it converts into sugar. So when I stopped drinking, I was like, why do I have all of these cravings for sugar? And so I started to overdo it and eat junk food and. The, the weight gain was actually like very triggering for me as somebody who has struggled with body dysmorphia and like disordered eating, and I, it almost pushed me back to drinking because I was like, I could maintain my weight when I was drinking. Like as bad as it was like that cycle I was in, like I knew how to maintain my weight and I didn't like losing that control. But obviously I recognize with time everything has evened out. I've learned to manage, like you can't have. Five donuts, like that's okay. You can't eat a whole pint of ice cream every day. Like, you know, I've scaled back and adjusted. But to your earlier point, like the face, like yes, like I'm not inflamed, I'm not puffy. I had. Really like, this is a humble brag, but like my whole life I had amazing skin up until around 30, and when I hit 30, I just experienced the worst breakouts and I could not figure out what was happening. I was so vain too, like I was just like. my pride has been my skin, even though I didn't take care of it, didn't deserve my skin. I would drink and pass out and have makeup on and the whole gambit. But long story short, that was something that I experienced as a positive effect. Of quitting drinking. My skin cleared up as well. Like I was no longer ingesting poison. Right. So that was something that like, because I could not figure it out, I was like, I've changed nothing in my life. I'm doing the same thing, and all of a sudden I'm having like adult acne. what is that about? But maybe my body was just tired, Melissa.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_2_02-26-2025_183738

Maybe.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_183738

was just like, look girl. Like you can't keep this up. Like something has gotta give. So thank you for sharing all of that. It's a good reminder Yes. That like you. Your whole, everything transforms when you quit drinking.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-08-2025_164227

And now a quick word from our partners.

the-sober-butterfly_5_03-05-2025_172219

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the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Welcome back to the Sober Butterfly. So Melissa, you were talking to us about what life looked like before sobriety, in the midst of the pandemic, and you quit drinking alcohol in August of 2023.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Since then, it sounds like everything has changed. So I would love to hear what have been some of the most positive aspects in your life since going alcohol free? I.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Oh, how much time you got Nadine?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

We have time, Melissa, get into it. And I know as well that you're an alcohol free coach, so I would also like to see, hear that evolution, like how you became a coach. So in any form, how has sobriety changed your life, Melissa?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Well, yeah, the coaching is has been amazing and that was something I was thinking about in my first stint actually. I remember hearing about it through this Naked Mind and I actually like

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Hmm.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

with someone over there, but. And that was right before the pandemic, but I, I wasn't so comfortable with my sobriety at that point. I wasn't ready to pull the trigger yet with the investment this time around though, I, I thought about it almost immediately. I was always this kind of person, the kind of friend that people call when they are going through something. I've just always been that kind of person.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

That's a good trait. You're a good listener.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yep. I, I, yeah, exactly. And you know, I've always been this mother figure, this caretaker, which, you know, and sometimes is like, okay, enough already, like, you know, and sometimes it's nice to be taken care of as well,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

love too.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

right. But I, I knew that it's something I would be good at. I know that I can listen and I can help and I can guide, and so. About you know, like seven months into it, my sobriety, I started a certification process with a program called Euphoric af AF with Carolina Ska. And it was a 10 month process with, you know, five different modalities and then a business training on top of it. And and I've been coaching now for about six months and. I currently have a roster of six badass women that I'm working with, and you know, when they hit those 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, like it's, there's nothing more satisfying than to to see them accomplish that, to see them bust through those limiting beliefs that they come to me with on day one saying, am I going to have fun without drinking?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah. Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

remember being there. I remember being, having those, I never said them out loud, you know, I, I, I wouldn't have

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

thought about saying them to, to anyone. I've said them in my head over and over, so that is a huge part of my life. You know, as far as other things, I just think the. The clarity, the connection, the, the peace of mind

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

that you have with other people. The, the patience. I mean, you know, you live in New York like

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

I,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

not a patient person by default. I'm not gonna lie to you, but I find that I have a lot more, I'll say, grace to

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

right?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

I've given myself grace. I can give other people grace,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

yes, living in New York and it can be very stress inducing. I'll

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

It can be hard. It can be tough, but don't you find that you can more easily step back and, and wonder some what's going on in that person's life? That's,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Okay.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

you know.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Yes. That part. I thought you were gonna say something like when you said patience, I was thinking like slow Walker in front of me, like I am like. Slow walker, especially if you cut off when I'm walking. Okay, we're on the same page. Yes. I,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

I'm talking more, I'm talking more like the, you know, the people that have real, like anger issues in New York, right? Like the p Yeah. People that stop dead in their tracks right in front of me when you're walking Full speed. Yeah. I, no, that's, that's hard to overcome.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

I, I get what you mean. Yes. Yeah. I think in general, like back to the clarity piece that you mentioned, like I have so much more clarity in all aspects of my life, but I, I noticed that before, like I used to say I was an observant person, but like, I actually don't think I was very self-aware or aware of others so much. And in New York, you kind of have blinders

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Mm-hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

yeah, you're aware of. Potential risks and threats and danger, but like for the most part you're like tunnel vision. Like, where am I going? Get out my way now. I find that I have a lot more like sense of awareness just around like what's going on around me. So if I'm on the subway, like I'm looking at people and I, I think when you had mentioned like. Thinking about what someone else may be going through. Because on the outside you can never really tell. Like, that is something that I do a lot of. Like, I literally, people watch, not in a creepy way, but I'm like, I pick, pick up on social cues.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Mm-hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

you know, I smile at people. I don't say hello'cause I'm still a New Yorker, but like, I, unless they speak to me, but like, I think sometimes that can scare people if you're just like, hello, hello, hello, how are you? But like I definitely, I definitely give people eye contact. I think I'm seeing people as human, right? And when you said before. If someone's angry or they're yelling, like, I, I'm not gonna lie to you or to anyone listening, like, I'm not gonna engage with that person and be like, what's wrong? How can I help?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

No.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

I pay attention and I'm like, I wonder what is going on in this person's life, or what they're thinking or what they're going through. That would incite such a reaction.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Right,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

And I don't know if I can help. Just like this idea of like, I'm aware I see you as a human. Like

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

right.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

like going through the motions. I'm in the matrix, like get out my way. Like I really do see people and engage with people I feel like more often than I did before.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I agree with all of that. And just you know, in the, in, I mean, in New York, like I used to be in such a hurry to get home and sit in my couch

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Oh,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

drink my wine

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

yeah. Wine, of

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

and, and just not leave my right, have any excuse to not leave my apartment and. I find myself getting outta my comfort zone more often,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

yeah. Sure.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

as you age is a thing that is really, can be really challenging. So sobriety has offered me that and, and I feel like my motto is, if it's scares me, it means I should do it

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Ooh. Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

I'm gonna learn something from it. It doesn't have to go. It doesn't have to go well. And a lot of times it won't. I'm, I'm always gonna learn something from it. And why not take a risk? What do you have to lose? Right? We're already growing and learning just by being sober in a world that's obsessed with alcohol.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

yeah. Truly.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

So, just, I, I feel like I'm taking more risk. I'm putting myself out there more. I'm just trying to embrace growth and I, I don't think I would be doing that if I, if I was still sitting on my couch drinking and doom scrolling and watching TV v.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Of living vicariously through others and then right there with you. And what a great full circle moment, Melissa, because like. When you had that low point where you were grieving and you were in the throes of your drinking, you were kind of like, yeah, like what's the point? Like, what am I doing this for? What is the purpose of this? I'm gonna do what I want and look at this full circle moment. Like the progress right now it's like, yeah, like what do I have to lose? But in the best way possible, you're like, I have nothing to lose outside of my comfort zone exists. Growth,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Right.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

that's where I wanna tap into. So like, I, I just love that because I. What do I have to lose? Can go very different ways. Like what do I have to lose? I don't, is like, I don't give a fuck. It can easily just be like, I'm gonna do whatever, because what is the point of all of this versus what do I have to lose? Like I want to, I want to push myself because I wanna grow and I wanna optimize my life, and I wanna see what variations of self I can tap into. And I'm not afraid to fail. I don't have to be perfect to everything because there's a lesson somewhere along the way.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah, why not?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Why not? I love that. so as we kind of wrap up here, can we play a little game?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

I love games.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Okay. I'm experimenting with my game. So this one's just for you, Melissa.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Great.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Mom, coach, or chaos.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Oh.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah, I, I made this up, so okay if it doesn't go well. we won't do it again if it doesn't work. Melissa, you, you are my Guinea pig for this one. Okay. So, mom, coach, or chaos, I'm gonna give you a scenario and you have to tell me if you handle it like a mom. So tapping into it like. Nurturing, practical side of you, coach thinking you're alcohol free. Coaching like motivational, tough love approach or pure chaos. AKA, maybe like your pre sober self. Okay, So mom, coach, or chaos.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Okay.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

this is your first scenario. Someone hands you a glass of champagne at a wedding and says, just one won't hurt. Are you handling it like a mom, a coach, or for chaos?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

I would say a coach,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Mm,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

you want a response?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

yeah. Give, gimme a response. I'm like, Melissa, oh my God. I have this bottle of Dom perignon for you. Or class, it's Let's toast one won't hurt.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Well, if it's a party and it's do pier, chances are I'm dressed up and looking. Very snatched for my 53-year-old self

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Yes.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

say so, and I would say, oh, no, thank you. I'm a non-drinker. That's why I look so good.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Ooh, snap. love that. Quips, like quick, like little comeback lines for people who are trying to pressure you to drink. And that's a good one because it's not rude to the other person. It's like you're owning it. You're like, yeah, like why would I ever want to, like, you think I can look like this if I were drinking? No,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

that. That is, I love that. That's a good one. Okay.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

You could use that.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

what'd you say?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

You could use that

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

I

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

all,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

yeah, like

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

all the time.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

this. So this next situation, going with mom, coach, or chaos, you're out with friends, the drinks are flowing, and someone drunk, well, you're not drinking, but you're out with friends. Drinks are flowing, and someone drunkenly, confesses a wild secret to you. How are you handling that? Are you giving them the practical, nurturing responses? Mom, motivational, tough love as coach or pure chaos. pre-sober self.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

I would say, mom,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

it in the moment'cause you're drunk, or would you like wait till the next day or both?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

would probably approach it in the moment and say, come on, come here for for two seconds. I know you're, I know you're a little drunk right now, but I gotta tell you, we can't do this right here. You need to, this can't happen right here. You're probably not gonna remember this. I just need you to know we can't talk about this right here.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

We can't tell all

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

I'm gonna

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

strangers you're having an affair with

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Right,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

physical therapist. Like, we're not

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

right. I'm gonna text you right now. You don't know me. I'm going to, I'm gonna send you a text. You're gonna read it in the morning. You're gonna wonder who the hell this is. Just trust me. It's a mom looking out for you.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

I love that. Okay. That's a good one. This last one is someone comes up to you, the, someone doesn't matter, but let's just say that they felt the need to confide in you. I think I have a drinking problem, I don't want to quit completely. How would you respond? What hat are you wearing? Mom, coach, or chaos.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Oh God, I would, I'm sorry. I can't give you a chaos answer. I feel like I haven't,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

like lys really

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

I mean, I feel like maybe the last one could have been chaos, but I'm not, I haven't been in a chaos mind in so long.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah. Where you're just like, yeah, tell all your secrets, tell the whole group everything about you, every dirty little secret. No.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

I,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

that's, that's what you would do to an enemy, not a friend.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

no, that, that last one. So they come up to me and say they, they wanna quit drinking, but they,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah. But well, they're, they're saying no. They're saying I think I have a problem, but I don't wanna quit.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

right. Oh, that's all Coach. Yeah. That would be, yeah. You know. Tell me what your greatest fear is around quitting. You know, that's all limiting beliefs. Yeah. What's holding you back? What? What do you think is the worst thing that would happen if you quit? You know what, what kind of walls would come tumbling down? Yeah. It's just, that's where you ask just a barrage of questions of, you know. What, what, what, then what now? How this and that. Yeah, that's a coach. That's often how a first coaching session looks like. It, it can look like, yeah. Like what brings you here? Why now? What? You know? What, yeah. What do you wanna, yeah. That's, that's all coach.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

I love that I tell people because you are a sober coach, like. Maybe you can give me feedback and I'm not a coach and like I don't pretend to be, but if people ask me like, oh, like what do you think I should do? Or like, how can I approach this if I'm thinking about quitting and I can't or whatever. I, I often tell people to treat it like a social experiment in the sense that they don't have to commit to anything. Like you can take it day by day,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Mm-hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

collect the data, and then discern whether or not you want to continue on this path or you know, you can always go back to where you are now.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

that good advice?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

That's great advice. Get curious about it.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah. The more you know, the more you

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Exactly. And, and is it, is it adding to your life?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

yeah,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Is it adding to your life or is it not suiting your life anymore? Are there too many things that it's destructive and, you know what I mean? And how's it making you feel at the end of the day?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

I think oftentimes we have an inner

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

I.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Anytime someone thinks like, do I have a problem? Chances are it doesn't need to be defined. Right?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Right.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

you're asking that question.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

It's like, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

you're asking me, like, even if you're getting curious to your point, like you're looking at sober accounts, like,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Right,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

life look like? There's something

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

right.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

maybe alcohol is playing, or the substance is playing too large a role in your life, and you need to change that.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

It's like when you're playing a game, like, a board game, if you have to ask yourself, am I cheating? You're probably cheating.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

that's so good.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Okay.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

that's.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

you, if you have to ask yourself, do I have a problem? You probably have a problem. I,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah, I love that board game analogy.'cause I'm so competitive, so

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

you know.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

I'll, I'll win at all. Like, so like I've, I've been the person like it doesn't feel as good to cheat and win. Is this

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

No.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

And if you've ask, then yeah,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

honest. And same with sobriety if, or drinking, if you have to ask. You're not being fully honest with yourself. Like, yeah, there's

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

there's something going on there.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

It's like moderation. If you are drawing boundaries around your drinking, then you probably have a problem with your drinking. Normal people.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

have to do that,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

No. Normal. Exactly. Normal people don't. Some people, a lot of people just go out and have a drink and they don't think about it. Not me,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

how you know, that's

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

not,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

know

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

not me, girl.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

from my first, like I've never been like, yeah, this is great. One is good.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Nope. Not me either.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

done one because I've tried to prove myself, to prove to myself that I don't have a problem,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Right, right.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Who are you fooling? Anyway Melissa, this has been so insightful, so enlightening. I've ha I've laughed, I've gotten chills from hearing parts of your story. I feel like you just have so much wealth in terms of knowledge and I don't know if you believe in spirituality or whatnot, but like, I can feel your energy from over here and like when you were speaking about. The losses that you experienced and when you were speaking about like just that place of hopelessness, because I've definitely been there,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

been depressed to the the extent of like, what is the purpose of all of this? If this is how I feel and it's hard to see past that, but then you get to the other side like is so beautiful

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

would love to just kind of wind down with this final question for you. If you could give any advice to your younger self your younger self. Could be yesterday, it can be Melissa back in 2020 at the start of the pandemic. It can be Melissa and at any point in your life, but if you could look back and give yourself one piece of advice, what would it be and why?

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

I think I would say it's gonna happen. You're gonna figure it out because I always have Nadine, I always have thought that at some point I would remove alcohol from my life that I knew that deep down. It would not be sustainable for me whether it was forced or I would want to, or a combination, I really do feel like deep down that at some point I was going to live a life without it and I guess I would say that it is going to happen and it's gonna be okay, and it, it actually, it's gonna be better than Okay. It's gonna be really beautiful.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

That was actually one of my favorite answers. Got chills, like I realized. In this moment, like, it's funny'cause you, you, you tend to have these like unconscious or subconscious knowings or inner knowings. But when someone says it, if it hasn't come to your conscious mind yet, like it just something inside of you lights up. And that's what happened to me just now because I think, to be honest with you, I always knew from the first time I ever tried alcohol H 13 blacked out that it was not it. If I wanted to live, if I wanted to survive, and of course, I wasn't thinking that long term at that young age, but like I always knew that like it was gonna be me or the alcohol. Like I, I knew that it was not sustainable to

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Right.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

live the life I was living. And I, I so grateful that I chose, I chose this life, this path I always knew alcohol was a problem for me.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Same.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

insane to like how much we live in denial or we try to protect our ourselves or protect our precious mechanism. For me it was, and just all of the things but I always knew, I always freaking knew. That's the the crazy part. Like we always know what we need,

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

wanna deal with it or not.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

So thank you for sharing that. Like, I, I needed to hear that today.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

a good reminder or just awakening for me,'cause I, that was something that was dormant that I now realize true for

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Yeah. You're welcome.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Thank you the Melissa, and

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Oh,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

people connect with you? Can you us know I.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

absolutely. You can find me on Instagram at the sober New Yorker, and that's also the name of my podcast, the Sober New Yorker, and my website, the Sober New Yorker. If anyone is interested in connecting with me there or hearing more about my coaching or signing up for my newsletter, that's the place to do it. And thank you Nadine. This has been absolutely incredible. I love to sit down with people. It's been a while since I've chatted about my story, so I really appreciate you giving me the, the time and the space.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

And I feel very grateful to have heard your story and been able to share it with my audience as well. So guys, make sure you check out the sober New Yorker. Everything is plugged below in the show notes. And if you ever want someone to come on the show, I'm here. I'm in New York, I'm happy to chat

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

I would love that.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

an open book, so whatever you wanna talk about, I am here.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Excellent.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-26-2025_191532

Alright, thank you Melissa.

melissa-mcgovern--she-her-_3_02-26-2025_191532

Thank you, Nadine.