Women in leadership and why they need the pause. | Louise Knutsson on JDV Talks

In this episode of JDV Talks, hosted by Yara Mazen, we sit down with Louise Knutsson to explore the deeper purpose behind her business retreat in Italy. 

We go beyond traditional leadership conversations and into the heart of human connection, energy, and transformation. 

Louise shares her vision of creating immersive retreat spaces where people are not there to be “fixed,” but to pause, reflect, and reconnect with themselves and others. 

From corporate leadership to entrepreneurship, she breaks down the invisible divide between the two worlds and highlights how both face the same core challenges: pressure, decision-making, and energy. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Hi everybody. This is Jora Mezin from Anacona, Italy, with um Luis, who is uh Knutson.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Yeah. Uh hi. Hi. It's lovely to have you here. Um, this is my second year here hosting in Olivetto. It's beautiful. And we're in La Marque in Italy, which is the region on the east coast opposite Tuscany, which is quite unheard of. And as you can see, it's unspoilt.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

It's unbelievable, it's magical.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Yeah. And actually capturing it, I always say we've, you know, the images and the the that we've had previously, it's very different from when you're here. And I think you're experiencing this this time because you've seen the images and actually here the views are breathtaking.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

No, it's just I feel like it's it's truly uh a space to retreat, you know. And um I think what attracted me, um so welcome to this episode of JDB Talks, and we'll be talking about business, retreats, and uh masculine and feminine energies in business. Um, first of all, I would love for you to introduce yourself. Who are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

I'm Louise, I'm the founder of Matches Talent. I've been in business for nine years now and launched a business when I lived in the UK. But there's history before that because I started my career in Japan, in Tokyo. So I've had experience across markets and borders with people. And the retreat was an expansion of my business because I felt there was a need. I've worked in the corporate world for global businesses for a long time in different international markets. And coming back from Asia to Europe, I had realized that I'd been exposed to understanding beyond the surface and beyond the language. So whilst there was an requirement for me to understand, um, and it was from a headhunting talent perspective, I was working in sectors that were traditional that we had to break down boundaries of how do we create something new from people and evolving that. So when I came back to Europe, it felt very transactional to me. And I realized that there was something to bridge the gap between what was happening in corporate busy lives to personal development and allowing people to be heard. And that journey that I'd been on made me realize I now understood it was about 360 about somebody, not just what you're presented on the surface. And all I've done as I've grown and built the business is challenge that in a positive way.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

So when the majority of our business is a search practice, we go into organizations that are going through transformation change, whether that be financially or whether a structurally or from a people perspective. And we go in and we we question and we support and we try and well, we don't try, we successfully get the gems and raise them. So all of that experience with people in different markets made me feel that was something was missing. And actually, it was an experience that I went through in the pandemic where we had stopped starting international markets, and suddenly my world became very insulin that it was back to the UK and I'd always operated globally. So I took myself out of that environment and I'm a firm believer of changing environments. Um, and then fast forward six months later, after I went on a business retreat actually in the in the States, and that was very much about coaching, because we have an executive coaching onto the business and it had grown quite quickly. And an opportunity came up where this beautiful estate that we're on now in Italy, they were hosting well-being retreats. And um, my very good friend Amanda, who who is responsible for this, she said to me, I'd love to do something more commercial. And actually, that's where this was born. And for me, it was blending that bridge between how do we, we don't, you know, we all need well-being, we all love it. And we look, we talk now about the longevity space and it's growing and it's expanding, but bridging that gap to create business retreats. And and this is a second retreat I've hosted here, and it's very much women in business, but actually, this goes beyond that. It's more about how do we bridge those gaps that we're seeing all the time in between technology, between people, between cultures.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

Yeah. Um actually you are um spot on because my experience here, like um, I think I'm a little adventure bunny there. So when we connected a few months ago, I thought it was really uh interesting to hear of a business retreat. Because I've done the well-being retreats, I've done the logo retreats, and uh and that's not the space where I'm in right now, right? Um I don't feel like I want to um because part of joie de vivre is actually enjoying your life while you're living it, so you don't need to retreat from it to to to regain that balance. But what felt very compelling is to be in a in a space with a group of women or men uh and be centering around that conversation, about conversation of business, of strategy, of finance, and of cultures uh or company cultures um um without the pressure of a wardrobe or without the pressure of an networking event. So it was it's for me that was that was the opportunity, that was the new window. Because I felt you know, and I'm sure a lot of people would feel this way, you know, I felt that uh global markets are are right there. They're not they're not far away because like in a world of connectivity and AI and technology, it's not it's not like maybe the barriers in our minds. But here we are, we have the language and we have and we came together with different groups of women with different cultures and different groups of women, and it's just exhilarating to be part of a conversation like this. So I think the bridging that you're talking about is very much happening. Very, very much happening.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

And there's something in that as well, uh also it's the psychological safety of creating their spaces. And and I wanted so you're right on two points, you know, it's that blend of actually this doesn't need to be sector specific. This doesn't, and I I wanted to bridge it also corporate and founder, business founder owner-led, because I think that isn't done enough, it's separated, and the more we blend, the more we can learn from each other.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah, it's brilliant, you know, because there's always that uh true, the separation. Let's let's like put it in words, this separation, because it might be clear for both of us, but might not be clear in general. And no, people in the corporate world would always feel like entrepreneurships or or people who have their own businesses is having a field trip and the other way around. Like people into once they get out of corporate and start working their own businesses, they're just overwhelmed by the amount of decision making that entrepreneurs and risk taking um the entrepreneurs need to take. So both spaces are very much they're very challenging. And they're at the end of the day, they're about security and about financing and about like basically the same things about business. Yeah, you know. So when those people they come to see eye to eye, I think this would bridge also the the collaboration environment where an a corpor a corporation can can actually facilitate with with smaller, smaller and medium business businesses. You know, so I think that the m the the benefit from this conversation is massive.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

It's and it's also it's that clarity, isn't it? It's a clarity of individuals. I think we all live very busy lives, and it's taking that space also to work on that. And and we spoke about it earlier. It's about individuals not leaving it. We've had some returnee guests this year as well, and integrating it. So what you and I may practice or or you know actively work on because we're both, I think, very self-aware individuals. Um, especially on the corporate side, they don't necessarily have the time because they become so stretched. We hear so much now about burnout, and it's not that this is to prevent burnout, but actually incorporating time to pause. Um, we've had a number of guests on this retreat who've said, I just knew I needed to because I feel I'm I'm getting to the point where I have no time to do that. And it's that space.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Yeah, and I and I actually see that vividly uh through actually I see both. I see the the the the founder obsessed, and this is where I relate to them, the founder obsessed um with their business where you you eat, sleep, and think uh your business, right? And there's that uh those women in corporate that are, as you said, they're they're spread very thin and they're really they need to work on their boundaries. So like I feel like both they both need a break. Like, and both because once you step back, and it's not it's not retreat to fix anything, it's just a retreat you take a step back to see. I think this is what you said, to see like a bird's eye view of where you are and where you're going, and is this is is this how you see your trajectory? And just recalibreating. And it's such a beautiful face.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah. The other important thing for me as well was you know, we we live in quite a hard world where we're constantly driven to push for what's next, and you know, that that can take its toll over time when you're constantly doing that. Um, and this is where it is very much about women. I think women have had to keep driving, keep pushing. And whilst I'm a firm believer and I teach my children, you know, you have to learn through mistakes, you can't hand hold fully and protect. But actually, I would rather people are sharing and people will only share and open up when they feel safe. That doesn't happen in networking because then there's that competitive edge. So you have to be able to be in a space that relaxes everyone, where they feel comfortable to open up. And actually, you know, some of the most like rewarding moments are seeing people just connect and saying, actually, will you show me how to do that? Or can I can we talk about that later?

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Yeah, um, you know, actually, this is what I found remarkable because um usually the dynamic of retreats is having like an expert uh and um and that expert is administering the the the uh the space, you know. But what's beautiful here because I I completely believe that every person has this journey and every person um like in I don't mean it that way, but we're all we're old women, right? We're wise women. So everyone has and everyone hears that everyone has their own uh learnings and wisdom and they love to share it. And this is the beautiful thing. And no again, like the motto of the motto, my motto is always we're walking each other home, and I could actually feel that sense being here. And each and everyone is helping one another, of course, if if someone is open to receive, because that's and that's a whole different thing. Like you have to be open enough to actually receive that kind of uh help. It's it's I think it's a big thing and it's sometimes a big block. But but to have this conversation and to have this natural conversation between like a group of 15 women that are all uh high profile, skilled, that and they have the experience is just it's such something else.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

You see so many things come out of it as well. So you see some that need to soften and uh you never quite know the experience, and obviously we can't you can't control people, um, so they've got to exactly what you said, they've got to be able to lean in, and that looks different for each individual. And you know, as business owners, we always have that perfectionist hat or controlling and and that again boundaries, you know, so there's always elements of control, rigidness, and you see individuals that are very much in that space really soften, and then you see others that actually are quite content, and they're the ones that struggle ventilino. Yeah. So it's we're not here to fix anybody. And I say in all the sessions, this isn't a this isn't a counselling session, this isn't a quick fix. This is just letting yourself pause in an environment that can be as stimulating as you want or as relaxed as you want. And the the joy of the actual space, and and I I often think, and I've described it a few times this week, when I arrived on Sunday before the guest arrived, I sat inside and the sun was shining through and actually just taking a moment and trying to capture that feeling. And we all know what that feeling is like, we all do it have different moments, but when you are the beautiful, yeah, so it's a bit exactly that. And I you know, I I messaged Kate who who's here to support me, and and amazing, and I just said to her, I just need five more minutes of this because you can feel yourself re-energizing. And I talk a lot about energy, and I'm not a spiritual person, but energy is so important, and anyone that's in a senior leadership role, we give so much and we've got to be energetic, but we have to refill 100%. We have to refill and and riding those waves on this retreat, um, you feel it, you know. And and I say all of the sessions, I want them to be immersive. Coming from corporate environment, you know, we go, we have exec days, corporate events that we attend, and and we all know that when we go home, that sigh of relief when it's done, you've got something out of it, and you've seen somebody on the space stage that's a phenomenal fit speaker. But ultimately, I wanted that interreaction. I want people to feel that when they leave the retreat, they've got the connection and it's a lifelong connection. Yeah, that that's another really important factor about these retreats.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

I think this is I think you're actually nailing it very much like I'm bestie's with my roommate now. But uh, and I'm going to Mexico probably visiting her and the Mayans, and it's just it's it's been it's incredible seeing those um match Luis indeed.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Like what's the talent. That's you know, that's the years of understanding and and just having a radar for actually I get how we connect people and cultures. And it's not just the and this goes back to executive search, it's not just about a brief, it's not just about I'm looking for a CFO or CMO, it's understanding the cultural environment.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

You're looking for the fits, get the right person at the right place, and I think this is what makes a very successful um team player. Like you can bring the most skilled person and put it in a put them in in a space that will that will they will really not thribe in it, you know. So especially at executive levels, because they're already honed out and they already have their ways, so it's like it's um I'm sure you're doing a fantastic job at that.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Uh one thing though, I would like to ask you in terms of the question on that topic, because we hear a lot about um leadership development, yeah. It's really important in all or well, in development is important, leadership and personal, but in the corporate world, you know, you hear about close cohorts, you're going away with your colleagues, so there's a way days. I think I want to touch upon that slightly because what I do here on the retreats is we blend experiences. So we have leadership development workshops. This week we did one actually that Mel hosted, which is about building Lego. I'd like you to talk to me about what you experienced in that and how that impacts, in your opinion. I have my opinion on it in terms of what how the corporate world would react. Talk to me about that and and that exercise versus how you it made you feel and and what you think things like that bring to the table.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Um I like for me, I thought that was again, it was brilliant because it it helped. I'm I'm a firm believer of like when you're working with your hand, and this was her premise, right? Yeah. When you're working with your hands, your mind is cleared. And this is like in the pasta making yesterday, you were discussing that. But with the with the Lego exercise, it wasn't only that you were using your hands so your mind was relaxed. It was actually you're using your hands, and your mind was stimulated with a certain question or a quest.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

And it was that push-pull, or wasn't it, as well?

SPEAKER_02 16:48

So there was that blend. It's not, it wasn't a relaxing exercise as pasta make it.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

And actually, we saw a lot of people feel quite uncomfortable in a moment.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Yes, at the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

But then when you when you dive into when you let go, and this is part of a process and pream work, when you open yourself up and you kind of let go of your which is usually the most beautiful things come out when you do that. Like I was just talking to you about the resistance coming here that was within me. But once you push through a little bit of that resistance, like the floodgates open, and it's such a such a beautiful experience. How you can like visualize and build and um and imagine like imagine how things are both with your mind, with both the mind and intuition. You know, and that's this, I think this is what was very special about this workshop, and this is what I the feedback I gave Mel, that it was concise. And I I think everybody knows that. I love things to be precise, I love precision, I love clarity, I love because like when I'm always thinking of energy, I'm I'm like I'm always thinking of in terms of energies because I have felt having very scarce energy. So as opposed to being younger, like there was abundance, there was like always energy to do things. But once you feel the feel the restraint of that, you become very conscious of where you put your energy. And this is why I love things to be concise and precise, and this is how I felt exactly on that with that logo workshop, because and then I think I posted the picture on my Instagram, and I could truly visualize what I'm doing. And three days in now, we're going to have that workshop on clarity. And I truly feel clear. So like I'm walking in there, like I don't like I'm gonna be like tweaking a little bit of things in my mind, but I'm solid. Yeah, and that's a feeling I think for any business owner is an exhilarating feel at the target.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Yeah. Well, it's re-energizing, isn't it? It's resetting, and and I think that's so important on that jour journey. I've heard people say, you know, we are on a journey, it feels a very spiritual word, but actually it's not. It's just next stages. Stages potentially, you know, because I work a lot.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

I wouldn't use the I I don't like, yeah, I I use the word trajectory.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

But if you think, I guess where I challenge that is if we work a lot also on business coaching and stages of business growth, yeah, and actually not necessarily knowing what's next. So sometimes you can be in control of that and other times you can't, and actually having uh and we talk about being in the detail versus stepping away from it.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

So I think there are parallels to this 100% but I would challenge back. Yeah, uh 100% because yes, there are stages and there are stages within us, and they're and we come we usually and it's usually the cyclicate. So you repeat stages and this is how growth happens. But the word, the difference for me, why I use trajectory most of the time, as opposed to journey, journey feels um open and unguided and uh and kind of with no destination, like which is beautiful if I'm on a spiritual search, yeah, right? But when I'm uh when I'm aware that I have bills to pay, I have k kids to raise, I'm quite aware of the turbulence that's happening in the world. Yeah. So I'm not on a mountain somewhere trying to find my soul. True. And I'm I'm here in this world, quite conscious that this world requires a certain set of skills and a certain uh, I believe, more compass that's uh that that needs honing down and needs that. So so here comes the word trajectory. Trajectory means I have a place that I know that I'm going and I'm flexible enough to know that it might change. So it's a trajectory, it's not like a goal, it's trajectory, it's like it's like a direction. And at the same time, you're going through that within the flow of things, within the cycle, the cycle that you're talking about. So that's why I think trajectory is what I would be using to balance the idea of being super goal-oriented as opposed to being so journey-oriented.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

But on that though, one of the things that I do with individuals and when we're working through clarity, or if they say to me, actually, I I want to, as many will use the word goal and say, actually, I'm not clear, or I want clarity on where I'm going in terms of short, mid- and long-term goals. And actually, I think an important point is identifying your goals, but working backwards from it rather than that trajectory. So it's important. So then actually you've got a two-way thing, haven't you? And then we're becoming cyclical again because it's that proposition of actually, yes, we need to push forwards unless we yes, we've got a trajectory. But actually, we don't always want to push that direction. We want to be clear on where we want to go and working backwards. Because if we don't do it that way, then it's it's that uphill climb, and life shouldn't be an uphill climb.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

No, it's not an uphill climb, it's um like I'll get um for me, it's always about uh finding yourself. center like you're always you're centered and you're grounded in your steps like I was I was talking to Cecilia in the morning um and no um steady uh steady strides like this is this is like if I'm going to search for my trajectory that is flexible I'll go by it with steady start strides with clarity and centeredness yeah you know so I'm always like I know what my message was yeah and this is where clarity comes in I know what I'm doing this I'm not doing it whatever the reason everyone has the reason but you know why you're doing something and you have a direction of where you want to move this yeah be it scalability and global standard or be it boutiqueness and quality whatever it is it doesn't matter but it's your trajectory that is aligned with your own message and your purpose and then and you're just moving forward with sturdy steps sometimes you'll need to run or or sprint and other times you need to lean back and that is I think I think we're gonna move now into the masculine feminine to kind of like I see you exuding with exuding with what people because I think as you're describing that that feels very lonely and actually um people need support 100% it's very lonely at the top in corporate world um it's very lonely as a business owner and a founder so as you're describing that journey I think what you could feel from me there is like you need that support.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Whether it's practical support, emotional support and you know in the executive coaching arm of our business we see that time and time again on the on the business coaching we see at that stage they don't know what the next stage of growth is so it's looking for input and support to get to how do I operate again working backwards. What does the next stage of growth look like when I don't know it? How can you help me go get to that stage because I don't know and I'm too busy in it. And from the corporate side it's well actually I've I've led huge teams across countries, global teens but actually it's quite lonely at the top because I'm restricted to what I can share. There are boundaries everywhere you know and then how how you process when you're then in your personal environment protecting your loved ones your your family and your friends versus them no longer understanding your world so then that comes very introverted.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

So that support and and last year we had a guest um also who's returned again who incredibly successful with a global business and you know and her biggest reward was that she said I I've met my people I didn't have that support I've been on a journey with men and women where I I've had friendships the friendships and relationships have moved on broken down and it's felt like that was missing so I think that wait when you're talking about this trajectory all I think well we're people ultimately here yeah but the thing is and we need people 100% and we need people to guide us to our trajectory and we need people to guide us to how centered we can become and we need people to guide us throughout the cycle we are social being and maybe some of the environment the business environment unfortunately I'm not talking about the general environment but business environment specifically has created this alienation because trust has been very questionable and support has been very transactional and I think this is something that I'm figuring out here but I come wounded. Yeah you know I come from the business world it's been 25 years in the business world that I quite we're both coming from those environments and we've got both aware of the trauma and I'm quite aware of my own wounds that would would actually inflict a little bit of lack of trust a little bit of doubt and I'm quite aware of that and I'm I'm I'm living here hopeful. And I think that for me is a life changer because what you're saying when I was explaining that kind of closed off this is how I protect myself and I protect my vision and my my business personally but finding the right people and again that's your skin finding the right people it will only help personally lift me up and I'm quite aware that we are social beings but then sometimes when you're when you're when you're coming from a wounded or betray betrayal kind of series you find that closing off and protecting is much better for you than compromising and like draining your energy but if you can actually have that trajectory and have that support I mean Allah Allah Allah and and then some I you were I mean I want everyone to have that that was the impact and drive having going back to again back to Asia cross continents the markets that you feel need this more and I would love that to like spread that and share and see that and how where we've got very different individuals from different countries and seeing that magic happen it's phenomenal. Yeah um I'm not how I'm not sure how far how long we've been recording but um this is another thing that I've been feeling very um uh very intensely but I usually feel this way when I'm immersed with with with humans and I love calling them humans rather than women and men honestly and I think maybe this is this is something that we can discuss a little bit further. But um we are really all the same Louise I agree I think at the end of the day across of religions cultures political inclinations geographical differences I truly truly truly believe that we are all the same.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

I fully agree like and it's and it opens my heart so much to know that we are all the same and it breaks my heart at the same time to see this this this like the state of world really and how like narrow minded and convoluted I talk about in blinkers you know that um again it's it's in organizations it's the silo function you know insular markets and and going back to you know as a mother as well for my children um we've recently moved and relocated to the UAE and they're in an international school with 87 nationalities and I love that because we're all people right and and they're they're learning and they've got friends and they're learning different cultures and and and it's only when you've operated globally and you've had that experience firsthand that you realize how important that becomes.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Yeah so you're right you're absolutely right it's about people yeah uh like we have I have uh like it's um le short like this is it's not east and it's not west it's human like it's not this separation it doesn't exist it is like it's one it's really it's truly one it's it is one uh DNA well there's no boundaries I didn't move to the UAE thinking that you know it wasn't preempted that on this retreat we'd have guests coming from we'd be sat here today you're from Cairo um I'm I'm Swedish British I'm married to an Italian we're living in the UAE you know global citizen yeah global citizen the world it's our world yeah I I hope so I hope so so now we were talking about uh and I would love to to discuss to play around a little bit in that space the the feminine energy versus the masculine energy in business uh and men and women because both are different because like uh to clarify like this maybe a little bit of knowledge energetically we a human has both masculine and feminine energy and they have access to both and a whole a whole human is a is a person who can master both and this is where we have maybe a little bit of conflicting um and or maybe we had a little bit more to learn about this and how it unfolds but putting that like just a kind of a ground for the conversation um why were you inclined first to have a have a woman women retreat and what are you feeling about what's coming next and why so many questions I think you're smart coquill to answer.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

I'm gonna work backwards from the last one. I think I would love to be in a space where we've got retreats that human mix men women um together because I think we can again learn from each other and that is the next I've worked more with men actually than women um I've been environments as a woman that have been very male very traditional very hard at times um so I can I'm very aware of my own masculine energies in that and actually leaning into feminine energy of what the retreats bring um and I'd and it's that blending of that isn't it I said to you earlier I would love to see some of the CEOs male CEOs here and female CEOs and unfortunately it's not equal yet you know but having both here and for the women breaking down their masculine energies because I I think we've and I I include myself in that we start to mirror we start to mirror masculine energy and that's where in certain markets as well and as I'm working in the Middle East and learning more in the Middle East um in Saudi and doing a lot of work in Saudi currently and we talk about men and women and allies and men being allies for women but actually then breaking down the women women um competitiveness or where they've lent too much into masculine energy and vice versa. So I think it's really important.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

I think it would be very interesting and I'm not big on the women women movement. Like I think that's something I speak of most of the time or like it's an inclination because um personally I have been betrayed by more women than I have been uh from men both actually like in business not big betrayals but like those little things you know and um and I find that business has been dominated by the masculine energy women in women and in men and and it created a lot of very fierce uh women which is fantastic but then they and that was my personal experience when I didn't balance that with my feminine energy I became aggressive I became angry and I hit head first with burnout and then I realized that oh my goodness I need to what is that feminine energy you go people are talking about.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

I don't understand what that is and then I started leaning when and that was the the five year trajectory where I was discovering how you can do this and and I think more and more women now are craving to move back into their femininity that because we're because we're challenged for so so many times in the business world you know a challenge for being so kind being kind is seen as being a a weak and actually it's not but and it's not in the right environment.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

It could be weakness if it's held to you as weakness. Yeah and and this is why the environment needs to change a little bit but again as a woman in business that is protecting both her masculinity and femininity and tapping in both I need to honor that vulnerability and I need to honor that kindness you know without being afraid of using it. And if it's used against me I need to have that space where I can actually forgive and that's what makes a woman woman then she's nurturing and she has the emotions to the emotional capacity to actually do that. But at the same time for men I think um I can't like there is something so beautifully grounding about having masculine energy by your side rather than within you. You know it's something it's it's something beautiful and it and it brings you back to yourself this way and like femininity will not be able to flourish without that masculine energy. But the thing is it has to be healthy masculine energy. You know and I'm sure like in and talking about all of this in a business um setting I think will be a brilliant conversation and it will maybe take away from the drama of a relationship of like romantic relationship or friendship relationship like in a business because businesses are clear so you can actually create that conversation with more boundaries than you can actually create it from a social culture point of view. You know but it's um if like I can't wait for you to bring those CEOs and and sit sitting them in with female CEOs and men like just blending those two energies bean I would love that.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Watch this space we're working very hard behind the scenes you know to because it it needs to happen and it's not happening. I think it's very much needed and that and that's what I felt there was a missing piece to it and that's what I want to create and that's and again it it it it's super rewarding it's super rewarding to see the result to see the output and we're going to we're on day three now we we finished the retreat tomorrow we close and we we did a clarity session where it was where where are we now and the shifts and it's not that there's a solution or that we've got an immediate output but actually just being aware of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

And I think what's um what I find very refreshing because I'm a person who's who's serious away from the I understand that I I like my company is joy of living and it's it it insinuates wellness and wellbeing but I I cringe a little bit from the your typical uh wellness uh commercialized wellness basis right um for one very specific reason because it carries a fixing mentality and you said that in the beginning of the podcast and no nobody can fix you nobody can fix you but we can present ourselves we can make better decision and better decisions every day we can make the decision where I will come here be part of this conversation and I'm sure I will come out I'll come out of this have learned something about myself and about the other it's a self-awareness isn't it it's working on the self-awareness and that is uh um it's it's daily progress that's it doesn't there's no end to it is that and I don't I I'm my intention to coming to this retreat was never about fixing one problem but to maybe shine lights on certain things that in me that I know that I still need to work on and how this is reflected within other people and how this is guided by you and guided by other women in this in this space. And and I love the sense of empowerment in this because again we're not we're not 18 and 19 anymore. Each and every one of us has the ownership and the and the and actually the self-responsibility to kind of see what they can get out of this and at the same time can also have the block of not allowing them it's a choice isn't it it's a choice and and if there is a block then then it even it may be the self-reflection of acknowledging that block.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yes and and that the silence highlights that then for them themselves.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

And I think just the choice of booking that retreat and being here I think that is a massive step on its own.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Like for me and for everyone else and for anyone who's willing to book a retreat I mean you know and I'm so grateful for that you know I don't take it lightly that people get on planes to come here and take the time out and those journeys and actually where we are here it's not an easy journey to get here and navigate and the belief in you know the end vision the end that actually it this is and even when we talk about your journey you know you flew into Rome and it's not an easy train journey to get here.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

It I mean you know I think each gets because there is like so we we like I don't want to to uh to make this seem like this is a hard place to reach but my choices of the journey like reflected that and for me it's my own internal movement has been my struggle like I find I find my home to be very kissan and I love to be being in my own space. So movement in itself and moving moving to a place that is unknown to meet people that I don't know has really uh has has been truly the challenge and for me that was the challenge and how can I trust myself enough to navigate uh an adventure with curiosity and to navigate other people that are coming from all over the world with curiosity not fear because that has been my trauma and I know when that when I was stepping onto that plane I know that I have started my retreat and I have started my journey into a new um a new space for myself really and um and I wouldn't have done that without you like holding the headlight I'm like I need to hear I think you'll be love I think you'll love it here you know and you were pretty persistent about it and I'm really grateful for that truly I'm so grateful that you're here and I've said it so many times during the trip um and it it really is great to connect in person because that energy was there and it's continuing so we've got some exciting things to come haven't we that we're I believe we're going to continue. I believe so so anyway um I'm so excited to to air this episode and it's actually should we and thank you for capturing it.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Thank you for capturing it.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

It's my joie de vie this is my joy and I think making conversation across the globe has become like my my sweet spot but uh thank you for listening and I hope you benefited and I hope you booked that tree uh mindfully of course uh to your bat to your benefit and no we'll reach out it's not about booking the retreat reach out explore you know if anything in this has been interesting I think either of us are we're both open to that you know reach forwards 100% the door is open yeah 100% and thank you Louise thank you for so many things and I'm like I'm so looking forward to whatever that comes next well we've got a day to enjoy haven't we've got a day three to enjoy ahead yes I was so excited about that and tomorrow is my Bridzi yeah thank you guys thank you