Practice in Action: Holiday Cheer or Jeer

It’s the most wonderful time of the year… or is it? The Psyched to Practice Podcast has its first holiday episode covering the joy they bring to some and pressure to others. Ray and Paul talk on the hard truths of the holidays: how they often carry unseen baggage for many of the clients we see and some valuable ways we can offer support. We hope you enjoy this Practice in Action episode, Holiday Cheer or Jeer. 

To hear more and stay up to date with Paul Wagner, MS, LPC and Ray Christner, Psy.D., NCSP, ABPP visit our website at:

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Transcript

Practice in Action: Holiday Cheer or Jeer
Welcome to the Psyched to Practice Podcast, a podcast designed to blend information, resources and collaboration to energize your practice and your life. I'm your host, Dr. Ray Christner, and we are going to take a deep dove into all things mental health. My experience, passion and a bit of luck has provided me with incredible opportunities. Of these, what strikes me the most are the many conversations where you hear not only the information that others have to share, but their passion behind it. On this podcast, I'm looking to bring you the same experience. We'll talk with experts, practitioners, each other, and most importantly, you. Now get ready. Let's get sight to practice. Welcome everybody to the Psyched to Practice podcast. Paul and I are back with another duo episode and this time we're kind of talking about preparing for the holidays. You know, it's that time of the year and, you know, just as much as there can be this idea of holiday cheer. There's kind of a deer that comes along with it as well. And it's not always a great time. And, you know, as hard as we might try to make it to be there. And so, you know, we were able to go in depth today just about the different dynamics that come along with the holidays and some of those ones that you're not going to see in the Hallmark movies, right? Yeah, Hallmark came up a lot in this episode. And yeah, I, I really think that, you know, the important part for me with this is, yeah, we all want happy holidays. We want that to be. And I think a lot of people want that. And the reality is we set ourselves up sometimes where that doesn't come true or maybe our circumstances at the time impacted. But this this was good. I think it was nice to kind of talk through it and just throw out some ideas of maybe what we can do to help people. And what do you think some of those ideas were that they feel like they can be the most helpful? Yeah, I mean, there were I mean, really, I think we covered a lot of ground. But, you know, two things for me were we used the words basically preparation and management, which doesn't tend to be holiday happy words but this idea of maybe thinking ahead about what some of the frustrations may be and being prepared with how we can do something different and really managing our own expectations and behaviors in a way that might create a more positive experience, whether it's a happy holiday or not, maybe at least we can say that we're striving for a more positive holiday, and that that, I think, is a good takeaway for most people. How about for you? And I think trying to make stepping away from this idea of obligations and pressures with with the holidays and being able to be more connected with what feels genuine or authentic for us. I think so often we kind of get lost in this trying to meet all of these expectations. And if we really kind of slow it down, we're able to identify what's most important. And then when we are able to do that, I think it helps out with that. You know, that that idea of of management and preparing for that. And I think that those two or I guess these three ideas really align where if we are able to recognize what we're wanting it to be, then we're better able to direct it and better able to help manage what what our responses are that take us further away from it. Yeah, I guess great point. And, and with that, I hope all of you that are listening can share with us your thoughts on our social media platforms. Please join us and give us some takeaways that you have from these episodes. And with that, we hope you enjoy this Practice in action episode. Holiday Cheer or cheer? Well, Paul, it's now the holiday times. And, you know, I think it's time to talk a little bit about both, maybe the the good and bad that may come along with those a different kind of holiday episode maybe, than some of our listeners are used to. Right. Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, we're all kind of getting jazzed up in some ways. But with that, you know, there's it's not always jazzed up. There's some other, you know, difficulties that maybe we all experience, some more than others. I think that's kind of what we're hoping to capture for today is maybe a broader view of the holidays. And, you know, for as positive or uplifting of a time it can be for some, it can also be a really challenging time for others. And or as you're saying, it can be a mixed bag. So being able to kind of explore what that's like and you know, what this true experience of the holidays are and especially you know, what the implications that that has with in the therapy session. Yeah. And you know, I think how do we help guide people through it? You know, I mean, I think that's that's part of the interesting piece of this is trying to figure out how do we help people navigate it. And, you know, it's we're recording this right before Thanksgiving coming up. And I know my sessions have reflected kind of what that looks like for people and what their expectations and concerns might be. So timing's good. It absolutely is. And speaking of like Thanksgiving and really, I think just about every major holiday, I feel like it has a familial component to it in some way, maybe Halloween maybe being one of the exceptions there. But even that, you know, it can be seen as families getting together and going and trick or treating. And so rating your experience, what are some of those family pressures that you hear in your sessions and like how are those getting expressed? Yeah, I mean, I think that's probably the big one, right? The whole idea of family and just social pressures that come with with holidays and you know, I think this is it's changed for me like over the years. You know, I think before you would hear kind of the minor concerns lately for me, most of you know, and this happened for the last few years is the fear of politics coming up. That's I mean, it's the the stressor that everyone has. And, you know, I just already this week, I had two people who came up and they were like, how do I avoid this? Like, I know it's going to come into play. My opinions are different than my family's and it just hasn't gone well for them in the past few years. And so that's been a big one. Like I've heard that I think quite a bit it what about you or you know, I hear, you know, along with politics and I think that that has been one and I think it's just been kind of the volume has been turned up on it more and more. And so noticing that it's kind of it's pervasive more so now than ever. But I'm also hearing about family conflicts and, you know, whether that is unresolved conflicts or whether that's this idea of I'm in the process of forgiveness for someone for something that maybe happened a long time ago. But I'm not at a point where, you know, I, I am okay with sitting across from this person. And yet it's expected that I sit across from this person or, you know, I feel like I'm obligated to sit across from this person and act like everything's okay and then nothing ever happened. And so this idea of having to become an actor while, you know, during the holidays and not really being able to to fully be themselves. And so I think that's been another common thread that I've heard for quite a few individuals that I've talked to, either, you know, this upcoming season or in years past Yeah. I mean, I, I think just in general, you know, gosh, since before Thanksgiving, you know, you start seeing the messages and the movies of, you know, this idea of being with family is this peaceful, loving experience. And I'm not sure that's true for everyone. I mean, and that's you know, we're some families, you know, unfortunately, are unhealthy. And so, you know, I've had patients who, you know, one, there's this conflict of this is how it's supposed to be. Like every Hallmark movie, these bad family experiences turn into something wonderful. And that's just not been their experience. And I think that's that's hard to navigate. Know what I think? Truly, even in some unhealthy family situations, I've found patients want that experience like they want to spend time with family. But how to do it? Where it doesn't go awry? And you know, I talk with families all the time. I mean, one or two are with patients all the time where one is I think we do have a choice. Maybe maybe it's not the right thing to do to spend time with with certain family members on those days and working maybe through guilt that comes with that. But knowing that sometimes we we do have to take care of ourselves if if we can't be put in that situation right now. And I think the other piece for me that I work a lot on with patients is, you know, how do we pick and choose our battles? You know, we don't have to get baited into conversations. We don't want to. And so, you know, I find myself starting, you know, with patients now going, how are we going to respond to this? You know, when Uncle Joe asks you this question that he's asked you for the last few years. And it becomes a problem. What can we do differently? What can your response be? And and helping people have some canned responses. Yeah. And I think, you know, and this is following suit, but one of the questions that I really like to bring up when we're talking about something like this, it's how do we have a successful family gathering or how do we have a successful holiday and what is success? You know, what is our measurement of success? Is it conflict avoidance? Is it, you know, feeling like I got to speak my piece? Because those are going to be two very different things in my engaging or am I am I diffusing, right? You know, am I am I removing myself, as you know, is successful family gatherings. I send a text message or, you know, a card to everyone. And is that know is that going to be my successful family interaction? So, you know, Hallmark, you know, hopefully don't strike me down for this. But trying to take a break from that Hallmark Perfect's, you know, family idea and being able to meet people where they're at, but also not wanting to say what is the goal? And if you are wanting to interact with family and let's do that, but, you know, try to make it successful in as many ways as we can. I love that idea of helping people set realistic expectations because, you know, whether we call them goals or however we want to define it. You know, I think we all do that. I do that. I mean, I'm lucky. I do enjoy time with my family over the holidays. But, you know, I'd be lying if I didn't say there's stress that comes with that. And so there is a preparation, I think, and knowing that and kind of going like, okay, like these are some possible things that could happen, what's the realistic view? It's not all going to go perfect. Something's going to happen. It just the nature of having a bunch of people together, I think that's important. I love that idea. I use that, but I don't know if I've explicitly said that with people to say like, yeah, let's, let's really talk. What is your expectation of a good holiday? And I think from that is really getting people to also pay attention to their own behaviors. Yeah. That, you know, we can blame all the other family members in the room. That's the easiest thing to do. That's all their fault. It's always their fault. But, you know, I think two things that I say to people often is you have to watch your own criticisms and how we approach people and paying attention to our own behaviors. And and also sometimes we just have to effect to accept family for who they are. And if we believe that in the last 12 months, people who irritated us that we haven't seen since then changed that dramatically. It's a false hope. Yeah. So let's let's sit back and kind of go, hey, you know, they are who they are and we can love people's quirkiness. That's okay. And being able to view it as their quirkiness and not an attack on our beliefs or. Right, you know, holding a grudge or a conflict over, you know, oh, you did this to me and letting that be, you know, that was for them. How do I make this for me? And I've been doing a little bit of reading on forgiveness recently, and I love that idea of forgiveness as it can be for us Brand forgiveness can ideally be like a selfish act that we can take for ourselves that lets us just let go of that pressure. And it doesn't have to be the you know, everything's fine, everything's good. I'm, you know, I say I forgive you. So that means, you know, blank slate later that we're able to to just kind of have these interactions where they're going to be messy and we can acknowledge that they're messy. And viewing that idea of forgiveness as a process and not just, you know, an action. Yeah. Yeah, I, I think this is a maybe that's the the great message of in holidays is this idea of forgiveness. This is a good time to try it and see how it. Works for us. And, you know, I you know, I think we all we all could do better at that piece sometimes. You know, maybe this part I kind of end on, you know, my saying that I say every year for all of my patients is our goal should be a perfect, imperfect holiday. And and if we can achieve that, then then we're okay. That is great. And that's that's the ideal. Well, that's the perfect ideal. That's right. And it's but it's going to be, you know, I mean, there's there's no chance. And despite what people may post on social media or what you see in Hallmark movies, the idea that there's not something that happens, it's just, you know, it's just not a it's not a it's not a realistic expectation and let's kind of plan for that ahead of time and let happen what happens. Right. And I'm wondering, you know, we're talking about the holidays and I think one of the biggest pieces, the gathering. But there's so many other different pieces that go along with the holidays that really are unrelated. And I'm wondering like, what are some of those that stand out for you, whether that's, you know, as an individual, you know, or in the therapy setting. What about the holiday stands out that maybe isn't all that you know that joyful. Yeah yeah I. I think for me, something I hear a lot and I think maybe even personally I have felt a lot is just I think sometimes that we have unreasonable expectations in the holidays. I mean, you know, there's all these Christmas parties to attend. There's gatherings with friends, there's, you know, white elephant gift exchanges, whatever it might be. We have all of these different, you know, holiday expectations that start happening. And it's a lot. And I think that it becomes overwhelming. And then that doesn't even put into the fact that for some people, we're buying presents and maybe we can't afford those presents, but we still feel this obligation that we have to do it. So the I, I for many years thought there is an unrealistic expectation of the holidays in general were pulled into so many different directions. And we try to meet all of those and then we're exhausted. We're kind of setting ourselves up for failure. Right. Right. It's I mean, it's just too much. And, you know, I think that for me, that that goes maybe in the in the therapy room and things I work on with people is we have to have boundaries. You know, it's it's okay to have a budget for the holidays and it's okay to not attend every party that exists. And it's okay to say, no, you don't have to send out 150 holiday cards to people. Yeah, I think there's there's these, all of these things we need to need to have a good boundary with. And, you know, I kind of start that with people now and just kind of talking about, you know, how do we set those? When is it okay to say no or to modify it? You know, I have a conversation with a patient this week who is just a. Honestly freaking out. I'm going to use that as the one over holiday card. And she's like, I have 300 and whatever number of holiday cards that I have to sit down and sign and write and put the address on and meld them out. And I when she said that, I got overwhelmed. I'm like 325 holiday cards. And so we said, I like. What other options can we like? Let's process. Let's brainstorm. Like. What else could you do? Like you could start and go. Okay, I'm not sending anybody a holiday card. We can we can start with that. And it was interesting. So we you know, long story short, we kind of got down to she went, well, really, there's there's only 25 people that I really want to send the cards to these other people. You know, I want to wish them a happy holiday. So we went, Hey, how can we do that? You know? So she's like, Well, you know, all of them are on my, you know, Facebook page or I have emails for them. I'm like, Wow, what if we use that? Like it's the same message. Like, can we, can we personally send something, you know, in through those means? And it was interesting kind of processing that with her and and seeing that she went like, wow, that expectation doesn't have to be me handwriting and he and signing 325 cards and I have to start now and do so many every week to get them all out before the holiday season. So I think we have to help people change that. There's expectations and I think. And use the word earlier, but moving away from obligation and moving into something that feels a bit more genuine or authentic for ourselves and you know, does it feel genuinely authentic to send no holiday cards doesn't sell, but it's 25 genuine ones, right? It's 300, you know, wishing you a happy holiday and that you only send something to at the holidays. Right. And being able to really kind of get in touch with that. And I think that's you know, that's one of the challenges for us as clinicians is hearing like kind of hearing between the lines and being able to hear, you know, when someone's saying this. But they're saying it with dread. And why are we doing it at all? So there's such a conviction there. So there's meaning and even the parsing out there doesn't have to be all one or all of the other. And we can break it down and make it more achievable and really more genuine. Yeah, I like that. I like the idea of genuine ness. And, you know, even maybe maybe that that's the word that's a main focus with this because how do we make the holidays in general more genuine, not just with with even more? We're talking about gifts and we're talking about all of these things. You know, how do we bring that human personal experience into the holidays where it does really feel like this genuine? Bill. Good type experience. Because it doesn't have to be that you're spending a fortune. I'll say my my probably favorite gifts that I've gotten through my life as nothing to minimal but there was a a personal touch behind them there was a somebody who took a moment to just really think about me and about why, you know, why that gift was important to me. So if we help people get there, it can create a better holiday for them, because then it really does feel good. And there's personal touches that I think, you know, maybe that's what the Hallmark movies are based on, you know? Right. Was not a sponsor. But, you know, I think that's kind of what they're trying to capture. And the way that they go about doing that is maybe portraying this family in turmoil and then coming together for these, you know, really connective moments and trying, you know, as we're working with clients or even, you know, mental health professionals trying to establish these boundaries that say this don't have to be one of the same, you know, Hallmark doesn't have to be a roadmap, but rather how can we help to evoke more genuine moments for those who, you know, we're working with, as well as setting those boundaries or those realistic expectations with families. And those moments can happen separately, but can be equally as important. And I think what's right for each person individually is it's not going to be the Hallmark movie, you know. I mean, we all have different budgets that we're going to work from and different time commitments that we're going to be able to commit to. And but thinking and being, you know, thinking about it and being thoughtful in that I think is is helpful. And again, it is, I think, a boundary that we kind of set and and know what we're able to do and what's going to be the most meaningful. So yeah, it's, you know, maybe the Hallmark movies aren't all that bad then, but it's it's getting it's really trying to get at that core of maybe what the thoughts behind it are instead of, you know, we're not going to have a mansion in the south with a big tree that goes up three stories, if only before we write it. And, you know, as we're talking about the holidays and the different personal moments that can be attached to it. And another thing, you know, or maybe common theme that I hear come up in in sessions surrounding the holidays are just kind of like a time of remembrance or even a kind of a pulling on ideas of loss. And, you know, holidays, I think, are built on this idea of tradition and really, I think, have a lot of nostalgia to them. And so when we experience loss, whether it's throughout the year or especially if it's a loss around the holiday times, it can come as a really hard reminder of of that loss And I can speak of personally. My grandmother a few years ago passed away, you know, right around Thanksgiving. And so it's a time in which, you know, I'm pulled back into those memories of, you know, Thanksgiving spent with her and her cooking and all of those experiences. And then now it's also another reminder of her not being there and fine trying to find ways to to navigate that. And I think a lot of times for, you know, for our clients who are maybe experiencing mental health concerns in other areas, that becomes one more thing that's added on top of their maybe struggling to process or don't know what to do with it. Yeah, it's a I agree. I hear that a lot. And I think combined with that is, is loss and loneliness. I mean that you know, some it you know, we all probably know someone who you know, they've lost most of the people close to them. And I think of some of the older patients that I have who, you know, are just at that stage of life where family members have passed on and friends have passed on. And so yeah, that, that loss and loneliness is yeah, I think really for people and, and maybe one of the, of all the things we're talking about, maybe that's one of the hardest. Certainly is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's one where it's, you know, we can give some suggestions to people, but it's, you know, it's a lot to process. And I, I, I, you know, I have this conversation often with, with people is, you know, the other thing is, like, I have, I have a patient whose spouse died. Oh, gosh, several years ago. And holidays were tough. It's, you know, never remarried, not in a relationship. And, you know, a lot of people tell him, you know, she died a few years ago. Like, you know, you haven't you know, she still kind of the holidays are still upsetting you. And yeah, it's there's a lot of people I think are on sensitive to that. Like we expect people to grieve and handle loss on some timeline and there just isn't one. You know it's and these times are are difficult. You know he and I spend sometimes you know our sessions around this time not not really grieving but we we really use it as a remembrance like, well, you know, let's talk about what we're great about the holidays and and then looking at maybe what are the alternatives to do this year. I think, you know, for some people, I think it's harder and harder every year to to find, you know, where they fit in. If you don't have kids or you don't have family close by, it's not the same experience. You know, it's it's tough. I think our role there then, you know, going from that, you know, let's let's have like a solution focus. We're giving, you know, giving these this idea of guidance. And, you know, that's when it's especially important for us to be listeners and to hear and, you know, the that that word remembrance, I think, really hit home. And finding, you know, finding the ways to honor, you know, honor those loved ones or on the other side of that, if it's loneliness, because there was never acceptance and, you know, a different side, I think, of where, you know, I was never close with my family. I was never married, I was never doing it. And the holidays become, you know, this this pressured time. And we have movies about that, you know, with Ebenezer Scrooge, you know, comes to mind. He's then, you know, visited but. Realistically, there's no three ghosts of Christmas that are going to come in. You show like, oh, hey, you know, change your ways. And maybe there's no ways to really change, maybe circumstance and not really forming connections and just feeling really that sense of isolation and loneliness. And so how the holidays become just an even different reminder or a pressure of, you know, hey, this is going to be a time when and this is felt really hard and how can we here and honor and value that? And I think in those situations, giving some ideas of support. But yeah, no, this is just a really I think it's a challenging topic. It is. I mean, you know, and again, it's like, you know, everybody's getting ready to go do all their shopping and we're bringing up, you know, I think some hard I think that's a hard topic. You know, I think this idea of loss and yeah, I'm going to go back to a couple episodes that we have had. You know, you just used the word is, you know, how do we help create connectedness for people as as therapists, as as human beings? You know, how do we increase that? And I love mentioning that, you know, patient before we we, you know, we've worked really hard at finding places where you can spend some time volunteering and talking to other people. He's found just a great experience in he goes on his He's Christian celebrates Christmas on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day He visits nursing homes and visits with patients that maybe don't have family. And so to have conversations now, Koven put a little squall on that, but it seems like it's coming back and something, you know, he's able to do, but that's been extremely fulfilling for him to connect to other people and, you know, volunteering and creating a different purpose. So I think there's there's ways we can help people get there. The other thing I do and some people I know probably would disagree with this, but I have certain patients that I know, I know where they're at in their life and kind of their situation. And I prepare an email that I send out to them that I send out usually on whatever holiday they're they're celebrating, you know, based on their beliefs. And they just say, hey, I'm thinking about you today. And, you know, you know, I hope you you have a day that is peaceful and, you know, a good day for you and just something simple. Yeah. Two or three lines of just, you know, and I can't tell you. I mean, I've done that for, gosh, four years. And how many people that that simple message is a boost for them on that day and you know, it doesn't take but yeah. A few minutes for me to do but again connection you know it's something where just that little reach out that no one else would have been able to do or wasn't going to do made a difference. Yeah. And I really, really like, I'm just kind of sitting, sitting with that. Yeah. Know, and thinking of just how profound that can be and you know, whether that's thinking of previous episodes. Melissa Reaves You know, in talking under threat assessment. Kristy Mulligan Talking about sexualized behaviors in youth, those who are really suffering. Oftentimes feeling that isolation. So if we can if we can extend that connection even just a bit, it can go it can go the distance. Right. You know, it's a little kindness always goes a long way. And I think it's that we see that proven over and over. And yeah, like I said, it doesn't take much to do it. So we're talking about these emotions. Let's talk about maybe the next emotion, which is what are the things that make us angry? So we have this loss and sadness. But to know, are there some things that you hear of experience that that maybe create that kind of an emotion? I think a lot of times I hear it surrounding a pressure or game, whether that's pressure with the holidays and for some individuals that just don't ever really feel that that sense of holiday connectedness and it just gets pushed and pushed and pushed. And, you know, the radio stations they listen to or now, you know, holiday stations, the the area, you know, they're moving things around in the stores to accommodate for this. And you've been doing that since July. And, you know, for as many individuals that that just connects and they absolutely love it. There's individuals that I think feel like I'm a slighted or that feels like they're like, why or why is this getting kind of shoved down my throat? And I'm just wanting to continue on with my day. Right. And I think I hear some anger and frustration from those individuals and how to how to try to adapt with, you know, with this because. I like it. Right. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's this is one for me, and I'm truly not an angry person. But I will say that my frustration, tolerance gets pushed around the holidays. You know, I don't love a lot of crowds. I don't love sitting in traffic. And, you know, I've already had those thoughts, you know, before Black Friday coming up here. That. Yeah. That. That's the reality of what I'm going to live for the next year. Stores are going to be busier. Everything seems like it takes longer and it's easy to get really frustrated. Yeah, and and I know I feel it. And so I, I'm sure there's some other of my patients feel the same thing. And, you know, I yeah, I share with them. I, you know, I, I really start prepping now for these things. Like I know that my grocery shopping trips are going to take probably 25 minutes longer around these times. And I know I'm going to sit in traffic between appointments longer. So, you know, I, I, I look at this as like, okay, instead of being frustrated about the traffic or sitting in line, you know, I carry my headphones with me everywhere so I can connect up and I download some good books or good podcasts or whatever I want to listen to. And I take that extra time to use it to just let myself listen to something different, which is good. And so, I mean, I tell people that all the time to give that a try. I, you know, also for me, it's, you know, sitting in the car, I get myself into habits that I use my extra time to maybe call somebody I haven't talked to for a while, reach out to an old friend, a call your mom or a call dad. Do something where you can sit in the car and use that time to think about other people. Because I think if we just sit there and. Think about the traffic and look at the long lines and see all the brake lights in front of us. It just builds this tension. And if we divert that to say, Hey, I can use this time to connect with somebody, to reach out or or to educate myself on something different. I don't know. I think those are good strategies. What do you usually talk to people about? Cognitive restructuring keeps coming to mind and how to how do we have to reframe that thought process to then shift the emotional and the behavioral responses there? Yeah, and you know, when when we're talking about those those situations being able to then look at, you know, what are one, what's the ideal outcome? And most of the time it's for them not to experience that. So it's okay. We can't change that. So what's the thing that they can control? What's the thing that falls within their realm? And how do they then, you know, try to make something out of this? Right. And so if it's, you know, those forms of, you know, exploring new media or finding more connection or if other times it's, hey, this is going to be my excuse to to stay in or this is going to be my push to, you know, when I would maybe walk around my neighborhood or maybe like around, you know, more urban areas. I'm going to go I'm going to go for a hike out in the middle of nowhere. And I'm going to try to kind of get away and remove myself from some of those triggers that I know that are going to be more frustrating. And I think when individuals are able to, it's phenomenal. It's not always ideal. And so I think finding then what's the best I can make out of this? And it's not trying to make it diminish that, you know, that hardships that they're experiencing, but rather trying to say if this is if this is the reality that we're in. You just want to sit there angry or is there something better we can do with the time and energy? Yeah. I mean, I, you know, it's definitely there's that cognitive piece and the behaviorist part of me, you know, I oftentimes say, you know, this is a good time for us to also think about how we can change our behaviors to lessen that frustration. You know, I don't grocery shop at noon on a weekend because it's going to be a madhouse. Yeah. So the store opens at seven. I might get up early and be there at seven when there's maybe only ten other people in the store. I think you use the word control and. That is really the root of a lot of these things. Like it is like traffic's out of our control, crowds are out of our control. We're going to go and want to buy something. It's they're not going to have it in stock and all of those things. So if we manage our expectations and manage our behaviors differently, nothing isn't a positive outcome, but it can be a different outcome. Yeah, I know. I don't want to be in a long line standing in the store, so. Having my headphones that I can listen to things and then also going to the store earlier. Those are two things I can control that might make that situation better. I think the more we have conversations with people about that, the easier I think managing the holidays can be. I like, you know, how to manage it. Manage it, right? Yeah. I mean, we can't change it. Like, I mean, I. I can yell and scream and kick and do all these things. But at the end of the day, if traffic's going to still be there, I can honk my horn. I can do all of the bad behaviors at the end of the day, then I just feel negative. Might help out with the crowds and. And they make it seem like there's enough other people out there screaming and yelling at stores. But. Yeah, no, I mean, I do. I think maybe that's the key to all of this is management. Like, you know, we can try and control family. We can't control all of these things, but we can manage how we enter all of these situations and and help other people do that. I mean, I think that's where therapy can be beneficial to brainstorm with people. And I can't tell you how many people when I mentioned that, you know, when I'm in traffic, I'll I'll flip through my phone and I'll just randomly call somebody I haven't talked to for a while and they'll go, Oh my gosh, that's a great idea. And I'm like, Yeah, I mean, honestly, my and my schedule's busy and on a given day, I often don't have that time, even if I want to. So why not use 20 minutes to connect to somebody I who I want to connect with? And, you know, I couldn't even tell you how many people I've seen who are like, oh, my gosh, I do that. It makes such a difference. And and they've extended it not just to the holidays, but even if you're traveling and you're stuck in traffic, all of a sudden now we have some ideas of what to do rather than focusing on the negative of it, to say, Hey, I can do this or I can, you know, I have a playlist of five great songs that I love to listen to. I might just put those songs on so yeah it holiday management that's that we should market that well and there's one other piece that you know, sadness and anger and and kind of fear, fear and anxiety that comes along with the holidays as well. And whether that is through, you know, the pressure that comes with like, hey, I have to be at this social gathering and you know, what about like it's a maybe some individuals maybe have dietary restrictions that really make them feel a little bit more isolated from, you know, the holiday parties that they're going to, whether they're feeling like I'm going to go there and I can't eat anything or I'm going to be the only one who brings something, or am I going to be the one who requests people make things to accommodate? And there's a lot of I think a lot of pressure that comes along with that. And same with individuals that are trying to maintain a certain diet or trying to create different, healthier lifestyles. And the holidays can then be a time in which it throws that and it throws a wrench into that and says, how do we maintain healthy habits while also trying to interact with the expectations and obligations of of the holidays? And I think that's bring a lot of fear and anxiety for individuals and saying, I don't know what to do. Yeah, I agree. I I've heard many people talk about just that whole everything you kind of mentioned, like whether it's that their dietary dietary restrictions are due to something medical, maybe the candy gluten or something of that nature. And then at work, you know, everybody's bringing in holiday cookies and all of these things. And how do you how do you manage that? How are you the you know, you're the person that's not involved in that activity. It can create some maybe some isolation, I think, for people. But I think on even a a simpler note, like the holidays do change our routines. You know, we do eat differently, you know, and not in a good way sometimes, you know, it's, you know, we eat more, we don't eat. Maybe it's healthy, maybe our exercise routines change. And, you know, we all know, you know, exercise and wellness go together. You know, it does definitely kind of impact us. And even sleep routines change, you know, maybe we're off doing more or again, going to different events or kids concerts, whatever it might be. Yeah, all of those things change and and, you know, I that makes us feel out of control and so helping people do you know, navigate those I think are good I. As you were saying, those I if there's a podcast called The American Glutton, Ethan's who plays the the host who's an actor, people probably know him from Remember the Titans, but he was was at one point, I think, over £500. And now he's, you know, looks like a bodybuilder. Is he a very healthy guy? I remember hearing an episode that he did that, you know, talked about what it was like to be that guy that went to Thanksgiving dinner. And he only eats chicken. He eats chicken breasts and steamed vegetables. And you know how to manage that and how to be comfortable enough with himself to be able to say, hey, look, no offense, I'm just going to bring my my food that I'm eating at this point in time to help with my well-being. And, you know, hearing his story was really fascinating. And I think that's something we can work with people on, though, you know, and, you know, I have some patients who have gone through bariatric surgery and, you know, their meals are going to be different this year and being able to to, again, kind of empower people to say hey, this this is kind of where I'm at. This is why I'm doing it. No offense to the fact that you're making, you know, this fancy meal, but I have to make sure I'm sticking to my routine. I think that I think that's okay to empower people to do that. And maybe, you know, maybe not empower maybe help them be assertive is maybe the word I'd use and then advocation, you know, for their needs and well-being. Right. And the one other piece I think that connects well with this idea is individuals trying to maintain sobriety and holidays. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think about that, right. And it's it's something where whether there's an individual who I didn't think about that you're sober and I'm offering you a glass from offering you a shot or, you know, and trying to then have those conversations ideally to help, you know, our clients prepare for that. And also maybe to clients who other family members are trying to maintain sobriety. I'm to give them those reminders of, hey, we can be mindful and we can try to then make that as beneficial in experiences for others. And so if there are individuals who we know who are going through recovery, how can we help advocate and support the recovery but also being genuine and being mind? You know, and I think a lot of it can come down to being mindful and intentional with our interactions. And so whether we're the ones helping to know them advocate or the ones helping to be mindful, I think, you know, we we can really play an important role on both sides during the holidays. Yeah, well, this was great pie. I think just kind of talking about, you know, the idea that holidays have a bunch of things that come with it and, you know, different emotions and good and bad. And we hope even with people that this is, you know, maybe they they're struggling at times. There's ways to help them have a more positive experience during these times. Absolutely. You know what I mean? Say happy holidays and it's okay if they're not. That's right. That's right. And with that, we we hope that you have the happiest of holidays. And if you don't, that's all right, too. But that's all we have this week. Listen in. Next week for another episode, we will stay sight. The information contained in this podcast and on the site. 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