Bonus Episode: Reflecting on The Problem with Men

In this episode of the Psyched to Practice Podcast, host Paul Wagner reflects on the recent episode, The Problem with Men, and shares how it has helped in addressing emotional intelligence, particularly focusing on alexithymia. He shares practical insights and strategies for therapists to help clients articulate their emotions and cope with anxiety, emphasizing the need for safe environments to express feelings and the value of psychoeducation in therapy.

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“Be well, and stay psyched"

Transcript

Hey everyone and welcome to the Psyched to Practice Podcast, your one stop for practical and useful clinical information, masterful insights from experts in the field, and a guide to daily living. I'm your host, Paul Wagner, and just me today, Ray and I, we've been having a great time doing some of these bonus episodes and really wanted to take an opportunity to kind of expand on some of our recent episodes and being able to talk about kind of after the conversations we're having.

we're taking some of this information and really going and applying it. So not every bonus content is going to be directly related, but certainly we didn't want to miss out on an opportunity to really kind of expand some of these conversations that we're having and hoping to give some different ways that you can use this in your practice when you're working with clients. So today we wanted to recap our recent conversations. We had Ron on just such a wealth of information and he really had a

great story. He dropped in so many useful pieces within that story. actually, mean, between reading the book, having the conversation with Ron and actually going back and editing the episode, I found myself each time pulling away something different. And so I want to just kind of share some of the insights that at least for me, it's helped to spark in different ways that

you might be able to use this. So after this conversation with Ron, it really had me going back over my caseload and identifying some men who struggle with alexithymia. And the episode ended up being a great talking point to bring up with some of my clients and working to discuss what alexithymia is and how it can really be challenging for them and create this disconnect.

between what they're experiencing and being able to verbalize their emotions about it. So what I found was a lot of the conversations were focusing on expanding emotional vocabulary through recognizing emotions in others, really. Another way that it came up in session was identifying some of the physical manifestations that these emotions have, but really some of the difficulty with naming that physical sensation as that emotion. And also being able to talk about the importance of creating

Paul Wagner (02:07.362)
different environments and safe environments to express emotions, especially at a young age. And so one of the first ways that I found myself able to use this was working with a young kiddo. And he kind of presents with some flat affect and can really be resistant to sharing his emotions. But what I found myself doing was really trying to engage him using different media. And so him identifying his own emotions, even emotions for those around him.

wasn't super comfortable and he wasn't really all that interested. So actually we were able to take a video game that he's really interested in and starting to break down certain scenes in that video game. So I happen to be familiar with it, thankfully. And I was able to kind of go through and just talk about like, hey, in this cut scene here, let's talk about what's going on first and really breaking down that just what is occurring within the scene, setting the tone, setting the environment.

From that, we were then exploring and saying, okay, based off of that information, how can we infer that these characters are feeling? And we weren't just going off these core emotions. I actually, in the session, I had pulled up an emotion wheel, so we were able to look at the comfortable emotions, the uncomfortable emotions. And I was really challenging to have some depth within that wheel. And he did a great job with it. And we then made sure that we went back and provided evidence. So it wasn't just,

Hey, let's describe the scene and what really stands out about it and just naming it, but rather also coming back and saying, hey, why? What was it about that scene and what you know about this character that led to that being your takeaway, your experience of this? And I think that was the piece that was most helpful. It wasn't just this quick answer of, you know, they're feeling isolated or they're feeling, you know, a sense of despair. was they're feeling isolated.

because, and then we're going back and giving the supportive evidence. And so really, it made this process, I think, a bit more tangible for him because he was able to go back and really kind of having to show his work a little bit. And as we're going through, I think I also got a little bit of street cred because I was bringing up video game scenes from memory. So we were able to connect there, but more so just this idea of being able to take something that he's interested in, that he's really invested in, and really being able to take that and using it as

Paul Wagner (04:34.03)
tool here to improve his emotional vocabulary and recognizing these emotions. A different way that it has come up was really working to review just kind of psychoeducation around emotion. I was recently working with an elementary age boy and he was struggling with school avoidance and kind of a relatively new dynamic that was going on for him. as we were talking about and discussing, just kept naming it as, I feel sick.

I have a stomach ache. I don't feel good. I feel like I'm going to throw up. And this was happening same time every morning that he had school on weekends. Wasn't happening. And this has been happening for about two weeks. And so we were kind of going through and I was like, hey, like I hear that. And certainly I don't want you to feel physically unwell. And gone to the doctors and doctors were really kind of shanty. Hey, this we're not really seeing anything. And we were really able to kind of go back and hone in and saying, hey, it seems like it's a manifestation of anxiety. And

really trying to inform him of some of the physical symptoms that are there for anxiety. So when we are feeling this way, it's not always anxiety, but it's also certainly can be. initially, like he wasn't super thrilled with it. He was pushing back and challenging it in part because if not wanting to go to school, physical symptoms are a great way of not being there. But then after a bit of time, parents had caught on and had brought it up in session and it really

turned into this valuable conversation where we are expanding this vocabulary form. So really kind of educating and then being able to put a name to it. And one of the things that I think I valued the most out of that conversation was that really trying to focus on this idea of empowerment. So once we're naming it as anxiety, what can we do? How do we not feel this way anymore? And recognizing avoidance as, you know,

very much like one of those prevalent symptoms of anxiety and recognizing what it does and how it serves just meeting that short term need and really didn't allow for there to be this long term skill development. And we were talking about how he can feel a sense of control for himself through challenging anxiety, through exposure. And, you know, it's hard to sell someone on exposure, but he,

Paul Wagner (06:55.586)
He heard it. And since then, I've gotten an update. And at the very least, it seems like there's been some attempts at integrating coping mechanisms and grounding techniques to help make that transition smoother. And it's not easy. it hasn't been 100 % successful from the report I got. But it did stop and just kind of say, hey, we're acknowledging this, and we're recognizing this. And let's do something about it.

that actually works to address this, but we need to kind of put away the pretenses of it's just a stomach ache and really getting down to this, no, it's this physical manifestation of anxiety and it's avoidance and here's what we're gonna do about it. One of the other ways that really I found that it was a valuable conversation was after a recent experience where I was talking with a parent who was really struggling with having their child just shutting down and not allow.

themselves to cry after something that really really heavy had happened. It was a significant loss and so they were denying themselves this opportunity and in part they well they literally said I'm not allowed to cry. So you know that really kind of rung on the radar so in bringing it up into this conversation both with the parent as well as with the kiddo we were talking about the importance of crying and you know I love that Ron calls out one we all have tear ducts so we're all

made to cry and also how crying releases oxytocin and other neurotransmitters actually has us feeling better. And one of the most important pieces, I think, in having this conversation and trying to bring about this awareness of the value of crying is being able to acknowledge that, it might not be safe or it might not be comfortable to cry everywhere. But being able to create a space at home where it is or

around trusted friends or trusted individuals, where we can really allow those emotions to be expressed and the value of it, because the stoicism isn't doing us any favors. I love that in the conversation, being able to really bring it into the therapy room. I know in the episode, we talked about how Ron's book is a memoir in his life, but through his life and through his work, maybe some things you can take away and really work to bring into your session is really trying to have some of your clients breaking down

Paul Wagner (09:16.75)
and identifying, I'm gonna use Ron's quote from the episode, who's doing what to whom and how does that affect me? And then being able to pull out that vocabulary list or that emotion wheel and really trying to connect that observation to their own experience, the emotion. Another way that I think can be incredibly helpful is really working to improve that education and intelligence on.

What are just the variety of ways these emotions can manifest and working to bring it more into awareness? So that way we're not just mislabeling it because then that can really lead to a sense of helplessness. We're stuck. Nothing I can do about this. But being able to tie in some of these interventions after the education, increasing that buy-in, helping to increase that sense of empowerment, as well as really working to give space. So just want to thank you for listening. I know again, kind of a shorter episode.

but really just wanted to share how I've been able to take some of these conversations and apply it. I know Ray has also done some recordings for some bonus episodes, so I'm excited to hear it, because I haven't been privy to it yet. But being able to just share these little snippets with you, taking some of these things that are talked about in our episodes, and distilling down some of the practical ways that we've been able to use them. Thank you for joining me today. We'll be back next week. But until then, be well, stay psyched.