It's the 30 year anniversary of Dazed and Confused (1993), Richard Linklater's ode to 70s adolescence. And he wasn't alone - many of the 90s greatest films were set in the last vinyl decade. Besides the dramatically pointy collars and avocado bathroom sets, what was the appeal? To answer the question, we take a closer look at Linklater's coming-of-age breakout hit, Cameron Crowe's career-defining Almost Famous (2000 - ok not quite 90s, but as good as) and our favourite Paul Thomas Anderson movie, Boogie Nights (1997).
References
An Oral History of Boogie Nights
‘Almost Famous: The Oral History of a Golden God’s Acid Trip’ by Ilana Kaplan for the NY Times
‘Dazed and Confused Was the Definitive Movie About the '90s, Not the '70s’ by Stephen Marche for Esquire
Philip Seymour Hoffman on Acting
Film Pharmacy
Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom (1977) dir. by Pier Paolo Pasolini
Fame (1980) dir. by Alan Parker
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If you love what we do, please like, subscribe and leave a review!
Original music by James Brailsford
Logo design by Abby-Jo Sheldon
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It's the 30 year anniversary of Dazed and Confused (1993), Richard Linklater's ode to 70s adolescence. And he wasn't alone - many of the 90s greatest films were set in the last vinyl decade. Besides the dramatically pointy collars and avocado bathroom sets, what was the appeal? To answer the question, we take a closer look at Linklater's coming-of-age breakout hit, Cameron Crowe's career-defining Almost Famous (2000 - ok not quite 90s, but as good as) and our favourite Paul Thomas Anderson movie, Boogie Nights (1997).
References
An Oral History of Boogie Nights
‘Almost Famous: The Oral History of a Golden God’s Acid Trip’ by Ilana Kaplan for the NY Times
‘Dazed and Confused Was the Definitive Movie About the '90s, Not the '70s’ by Stephen Marche for Esquire
Philip Seymour Hoffman on Acting
Film Pharmacy
Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom (1977) dir. by Pier Paolo Pasolini
Fame (1980) dir. by Alan Parker
-----------
If you love what we do, please like, subscribe and leave a review!
Original music by James Brailsford
Logo design by Abby-Jo Sheldon
Follow us
Email us
Very, very groovy.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Welcome to Groovy Movies. My name is Lily Austin.
James:And my name is James Brailsford. Hello! And today we are going to be looking into films, from the 90s that were set in the 70s. Because there did seem to be a bit of a spate of films around that time that had like a nostalgic look back at the 70s. And dig into why we think that was and discuss the classics of this kind of genre.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, why are 90s filmmakers so obsessed with the 70s? Get over it. It was like 30 years ago.
James:look forwards, not backwards. Right.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, and I say that's on who is obsessed with the 70s also and I would, if I, if I were to be a filmmaker, that would definitely be my era of choice. Yeah,
James:There's something about the seventies, like watching these films back and listening to the music, there's something that's very warm and inviting and kind of the music sounds good. The fashion's pretty groovy,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:this is actually our grooviest episode of groovy movies.
James:Very, very groovy. It's completely on brand. Yeah. There's a certain escapism to the seventies that somehow is missing certainly from the eighties,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Do you think,
James:period. Yeah.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:as an objective truth, or in the way these films...
James:Well, more, more just my general feeling towards the 80s, perhaps, because I grew up then. But, let me just put it this way. I always imagined the 70s as being very analogue. All the records were recorded on, tape, and released on vinyl. So they have this warmth about them and this richness. Then you get to the eighties and everything starts being shot on video. Everything starts being recorded on digital and released on CD. And there's a coldness and a sterility suddenly creeps into, uh, entertainment and media and kind of society as a whole. Whereas the seventies had this warm golden analog glow. That's how I see it.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:You're really
James:But is it an objective truth? No, of course it's not. It's my clouded vision, Lily.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:But I think that's the vision that a lot of directors feel, and that perhaps you're getting to one of the reasons why. It's an era that filmmakers like to recreate, but I think in
James:a rich, a rich seam.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:it's exactly, it's the richest of scenes. Okay, well, let's, should we get into it? Should we talk about our first film?
James:Yes, yes, enough of this introduction. Let's get into the meat of it. This is what you came here for. None of this, like, us chatting. You just want the hard facts. You listeners, you ain't got time to mess around. You're busy. Come on, let's get down to it. Yeah, absolutely.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Oh. wait, but that does make me. that remind me of the fact that I wanted to say, Hey, it's good news about the strikes, right? That they've, the writer strikes have, they've come to an agreement.
James:Absolutely,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:I, I, I fully intended to be very topical this week and be like, ah, let's discuss film news. And then I completely forgot, but that's good, right?
James:No, absolutely. And we've now snuck it in now, just as you thought we're going to talk about the good stuff. Ha ha ha. Here's some topical news. Yeah, no, it's great. They've, they've got pretty much all the demand, all of their demands are met pretty
Lily S3 E10 Audio:See? So, I mean, that's they always cave in the end. The Hollywood unions are so powerful.
James:Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, also the, the studios need stuff to make and, uh, it's, you know, they're running
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Well, yeah, that's why they have all that. It's amazing.
James:I wonder what it's going to be like in a year's time. Are we going to Have a bit of a black hole of, uh, of entertainment?
Lily S3 E10 Audio:no, I don't think so. I think it'll be fine. I think it's been great. Okay, right. Back to the topic at hand. So, should we start with our first film, Dazed and Confused? 1993 movie directed by Richard Linklater.
James:It's like a slice of life, isn't it? It's the last day of high school. In 1976. And I was like, Jesus Christ. I was born in 1976. Um, yeah.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Oh, my god, I'm gonna write that down. So, I know for your birthdays. Good, good to know. Good to know.
James:When I first saw this quite a while ago, um, I didn't particularly, uh, engage with it. But then, you know what I was like back in the day, pretentious, like, you know, only like super arty films that are, you know, hyper stylized and, and I don't know, this is like a traditional film. It's a story about group characters. The way it's shot and presented isn't hyper heightened or stylized. There's no clever tricks with the plot. But as I've aged out a bit, I can, I've managed to kind of buy into it a little bit more.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Oh, interesting because, even though I, I chose it because it seemed like an obvious choice for this theme. I, I, I didn't like it particularly when I first saw it and I, I still don't really like connect with it very much. Um, which I guess which in a way is kind of funny to me because I love, I love the before series. I like other films of Richard Linklater's. Boyhood I wasn't that keen on, I should have to admit. It's basically just The Before series that I like of his. Maybe, uh, School of Rock is pretty good too, actually. I don't know.
James:I guess my natural film interests are not really gravitating towards real world set stories where it's basically characters talking to each other. Um, I kind of got into days of confuse this time around because I'm getting more into accepting that some films are just vibes and this is like a, it's got this sun drenched, lazy, not a lot happens, you know, it's certainly not, um, a must watch film for me, but I enjoyed it more this time around, what can I say? But watching it again, like the cast, that's what blew me away with this.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:You're right. That I mean, that's why you watch this movie. Because yes, as we, as James just said, it's a film that sat on the last day of school in 1976. And it follows the soon to be seniors, as they initially haze the incoming freshmen. And then you go on to kind of follow them on their night out as they're just basically like driving around town and hanging out and drinking. And you're right, it's definitely vibes, not content. It's like the plot is Basically non existent, like there's some kind of, there's a plot where they're like the main football star is wondering whether or not to sign a pledge that he won't take drugs, but like the, the dramatic tension of there is pretty much non existent, um, but you're right, what you're really watching for is, it's a load of star actors in their very first roles because Richard Linklater, he wanted to use all known, unknown actors, so he and his It's casting team just like apparently like drove around America kind of appealed to like middle America because it was set in Texas where he grew up and they just like got all these like young wannabe actors in their first roles.
James:Including the first theatrical, uh, role for Matthew McConaughey, do you know how, how he got cast.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:I have read into that, but you tell the story, James.
James:Well, you know, it's just that he was in a bar one night and the barman told him that, oh, there's a guy over there who cast Sean Penn in a film. And so Matthew McConaughey was like, right, I'm gonna talk to that guy. Went over, didn't talk about films at all, just got drunk with him and had a laugh. And, uh, Don Phillips, the casting director, was like, This guy, this guy's gotta be And the part that he was cast in was originally going to be a very, very small part because of the, you know, the, the magnetism and charisma of Matthew McConaughey. The part kind of got, got blown up. But he doesn't appear in the film until quite a way through it. That's what surprised me watching this second time. It's quite a way, way into the film before he makes his first appearance.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah, and Ben Affleck was in it as well, playing basically the high school bully. Um, Parker Posey is in it, who I, know as the wife of Tom Hanks in You've Got Mail. she's so great at playing, like, a slightly crazy person, you
James:I mean, I, I
Lily S3 E10 Audio:a slightly eccentric person, I should say. Okay.
James:Yeah, she's been lots of indie films that I haven't seen, but I did see her in Superman returns, which I'm sure isn't her, uh, best work. But, um,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:and Joey Lauren Adams, she's in it, who was in Chasing Amy. She's like the main woman in Chasing Amy. If you know that movie, it's
James:and Rene Elwes got a non-speaking role, which I didn't even spot her in
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, yeah, I know. I read that too. Then I went back and it was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just a fun movie to watch, like, tick off all these pieces. A lot of them are like, oh, I've definitely seen you in something. What, what is that? What is that? So it's fun for that game.
James:Why don't you think it particularly resonated with you? Either times Really?
Lily S3 E10 Audio:It's a great question. I think because The reason this movie is made like Richard Linklater. I mean, he was pretty young. I think when he made the film, right? Like it was his he made slacker first, I think and then this was his follow This is kind of his his big film having had some relative success with that He was like, you know this new hot director, but he basically was making a film about his childhood, right? It was set in the same kind of place where he grew up and was inspired by the kids that he knew growing up. And so this is a film very much about Richard Linklater for people like Richard Linklater. And I'm just, my suspicion is me and Richard, Richard Linklater, we are aligned on some things, but I feel like the before time of his life. It was very much in keeping with, some part of me, but the teenage boys who are obsessed with tits and drinking and like, it's not like I'm that strongly against any of that stuff. And I think the film, it is a bit. misogynistic in ways, but actually you, you do get the sense that these guys are just kind of like teenage idiots and the girls are a pretty, I mean the girls are barely in it, that's the main issue, it's not even about the dialogue for me, but like the women parts aren't very, like, they don't get a lot of screen time, they're not very well The script isn't strong. Like, I think, well, no, I think, I think, actually, I will say, I think the cast members are all really well rounded. Apparently, Richard Linklater, like, he really encouraged the cast to, figure out your character, who they are. If you don't like the part, like, change it. You know, he was very supportive of them going the way they want to go with their character, and I feel that. Like, I think all the characters are really well rounded, actually, and the girls are, too. It's just they don't get a lot of time on screen, and we don't really, they don't really have many... plot point. But to be honest, I don't need every film to have lots of women in it. It's kind of okay, all it just means is that I'm not super interested in what they're getting up to, basically. I have a bit of a thing where I don't really love movies about teenagers in general. Like, I'm just not that interested in them as as a people. But, so, yeah, just something about the vows that didn't really resonate with me, but... everything about it being in the 70s did. I think it looks so, so, good. The music is so good. So,
James:Like, I, I engage with it this time as more like a very nice, just chill out in the 70s. There's a bunch of what we would consider low stakes drama. Nothing too extreme happens to any character, really. And, and I was watching an interview with Richard Linklater, and he mentioned that. He said that was deliberate. There's no, not really any high stakes drama, except... That in your own life, everything is high stakes. so being chased by a bully, who's going to smack your ass with a, with a cricket bat, that's high stakes when you're a kid, even though dramatically in a feature film, it's not a big blue laser about to blow up the world at the end of a Marvel movie.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:That's my preferred kind of film. Like I love it when it's low stakes, I like getting vested in someone's small, important thing to them. And of course, like remembering what I think living is because of my experience of school was. Not really like that at all perhaps that I just didn't really fully connect with that maybe but more because you know We didn't kind of like all drive around town or whatever, but I don't know I mean, there was a lot of drinking I guess and like parties. I don't know.
James:I wouldn't want to watch a film that reflected my school life because it was goddamn grim and grey and rubbish and just like, you know, whereas this is like, when I was a kid growing up and you would hear about America or you would watch films about America when you were a kid, this is the dream, this is what, this is like, you were amazed that young people, uh, in America, this was their lifestyle. It was like very romantic. So this film is almost the romantic ideal of what, I imagined, like a school, you know, it's, it's very cool, everyone's doing drugs and making, there's a lot, there's
Lily S3 E10 Audio:I don't know if it's cool, they all seem like lame to me, but,
James:compared to going to a school in Sheffield in the 80s, put it that way.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah, no, I, yeah. And like the way they get to just like drive around and the kind of open space of, of the place that they grow up is quite, there's something very evocative about that. So that's good. I mean, I just think it's interesting, like it makes sense, right? If you're a filmmaker. Early on in your career, every filmmaker must draw on their own experiences, at least any filmmaker who's good. And yeah, and so I'm, I like seeing a film which is So clearly drawn from his own experiences of being a teenager. Um, and I get, and I think that is what all the films that we've looked at for this topic kind of get at. These are all people who are looking back and trying to recreate something from their childhood, capture something. And that's, I think, and that is what nostalgia is, right? It's like idealize.
James:sure. I'm not sure that's entirely sure for all of our films, but we'll get to that later, Lily.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Ooh. Intriguing. Very intriguing. Okay. Well, but you know what I mean, like nostalgia is all about looking back with like very stic glasses on, on this time that is basically imagined in your own mind and not, not actually objectively as it was. And I like, I like watching a film that feels like that, that I've gone in, I've crawled into a director's memory, like their nostalgic memory and, and we are looking back together like, oh, that's, that's, if only, that's what it was like. Like I like that. I like that feeling. There's an element of it that is like fantasy, but I think what it does capture very well, which I do remember from teenage years and is that like the timelessness at the start of summer and the feeling of just like they're just being endless time to. Have fun and just like, and also just like lament your life and, and wonder what's to come, you know, and, and I think that perhaps is part of the appeal of, of filmmakers, making these films, because like, God, like looking back now, I'm like, oh, to have had all that, that time You know, it's just spending all your time hanging out with your friends. Oof, I miss it. So that was all I would say. Hmm.
James:This is, this is a very rose tinted view and like you say, you know, the Classic is right what you know. So in the 90s, early, career directors looking back to their childhood, looking back to the 70s, there is a rich seam of Americana. You know, he said that his pitch for the film was like he was doing, American 70s, which it clearly is so clearly influenced by that. It's
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, American Graffiti is set in the 50s, right? If anyone hasn't
James:by George Lucas in the 70s. So yeah, um,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:it's a very good
James:and it is, it's great. But Days and Confused is very rose tinted. However, I have to say it's like just one set of rose tinted glasses, whereas we're watching Almost Famous and that's like put another set of rose tinted glasses over the top of your rose tinted glasses.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:As in that one is way more race centered, do you
James:Oh my God.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, yeah, nice. Okay, well that's a nice move, uh, segue into, into the next film. So, Almost Famous, um, made in 2000. So, okay, we're slightly stretching our 90s concept, but my just
James:and produced and made in the late 90s, surely.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:you go. There you go. And, and my full justification is that, you know, that concept of our collective cultural, vision of what a decade is, isn't actually aligned with the decade So when we talk about 70s, what we're really talking about is from 73 to like 81. And when we talk about the 80s, we're really talking about 82 to like 90. So that's my
James:Takes a few years for each decade to get going and to find its feet.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Exactly, exactly. So stylistically, the 2000s were very much, I feel like it's kind of that cut off of 9 11, you know, before that we had the 90s and then we go into the noughties from that. That's, that's my justification. So yeah, so made in 2000, directed by Cameron Crowe and another semi autobiographical film, it follows a teenage boy who goes on the road with a band called Stillwater. Clear water, still water. And, um, I said, I've seen this movie a million times, but yeah, who is writing an article for Rolling Stone. And, and that's what Cameron Crowe did. He was a teen music journalist.
James:I'm guessing from what you just said there, this is a favourite of yours from back in the day. Is it still a favourite? What's your connection to this movie, Lily?
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, it was very funny watching this movie because I, I watched it a lot as a teenager. I think I very much wanted to be Kate Hudson in that movie. She plays Penny Lane, a, uh, an essentially a groupie though the girls are very clear that that is not what they do. Just
James:Uh uh. Blowjobs only.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:But it was, she's kind of based on, she's a composite character of an actual socialite called Penny Lane, Trumbull, and then a couple of other like famous. groupies. They, they had a, apparently in the 70s, Penny Lane and a few others had this group called the Flying Garter Girls, and they would travel, travel around with famous rock bands. So she's kind of based on those sorts of people. And interestingly, Sarah Polly, the director of Women Talking, She, was originally meant to play the part of Penny Lane. But madly,
James:she stopped doing it because Brad Pitt was originally cast as one of the silver, like, um,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah, so yeah, Brad Pitt was meant to play the kind of the, the lead guitarist, Russell Hammond. And I mean, I wonder why the real reason he stopped, apparently him and Cameron Crowe just agreed together that it wasn't quite the right fit. But I wonder if they had like some kind of big bust up because it doesn't seem to make sense to me.
James:like classic creative differences, doesn't
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, but having said that, I mean, I think that's right. I cannot Brad Pitt does not have like, rocker band energy. Like, I can't imagine him being like, you know, he's a cool, rebellious guy and like, can play that part quite well. But the idea of him being in a band, I just don't see it. So what did you think of it, James?
James:Didn't like it the first time I saw it because I thought it was way too saccharine I thought it was far too saccharine and like just just not gritty, but now watching I'm like, yeah, it doesn't need to be gritty It's like a fantasy so taken as like an absolute ridiculous fantasy of like this is the most idealized version of the 70s where nobody's been really that exploited and nobody's been really hurt and and the rock stars are all really nice and they're not that bad then fine i'll buy into this fantasy because i know it's all bullshit but as a bit of escapism i i really enjoyed it this time round
Lily S3 E10 Audio:What is happening? I feel like we're going on some kind of weird like switcheroo situation because yeah, I, I, I used to watch it loads and, and I, I do feel like even when I was like, was about to watch it, I think part of me did know that there was something to not like about it. But yeah, watching it this time, it's exactly that. It's so saccharine. You're right. There's no, everyone is so nice. These are meant to be like. You know, rock stars on the 70s when really there are no rules and like tools are being figured out and, and women are being used. And yeah, a woman is used in it, but in, in a way that is also so sort of weirdly innocent, like she gets swapped for beer. And of course that's like slightly insulting, but the swapping is just that like, she goes with a different group of guys on beer. Like, there's, it's not, it's like, yeah,
James:it's it's everything's sanitized. You're just going on tour. You're not sleeping with somebody else when, or at least we're not saying that it's just, you're just going on tour with them. Yeah.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah. it's just got No, teeth, this movie.
James:it's got no teeth and you just think, and this, yeah, this was written and directed by the guy who was actually there. This is his semi autobiographical take on it. So he knows what it was really like. But the thing is, I suspect, you know, you wouldn't have watched it over and over. was a teen, if it had have been this really quite realistic, gritty, you know, that would have been, it wouldn't have been as popular, perhaps, or it wouldn't
Lily S3 E10 Audio:wasn't
James:an
Lily S3 E10 Audio:though. it
James:Yeah, I know. As I, as I said that, I realized it fucking, it didn't make its money back. Sorry.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:it's, it's a funny one because Cameron Crowe won the Oscar for best screenplay and it had lots of, like, it had lots of
James:I didn't realize it wasn't
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah. And it had lots of critical acclaim. The critics loved it, but it didn't find an audience, and I swear that should, that's wrong. That's completely, that should not be correct because is a very watchable, soft, easy film.
James:It's a piece of fluff
Lily S3 E10 Audio:a real piece of fluff.
James:really reflect anything what it must have been like at the time. But if you approach it which I did this time around, it's like a fantasy with really good music.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:But I think this is just Cameron Crowe's, like, personality, because if you look Towne, Jerry Maguire, Vanilla Sky, like, these are like, these are all, like, none of these films really have much teeth. Especially, definitely not Elizabeth Towne, Jerry Maguire. You know what, it's very odd with Almost Famous because I remember the first, like, seeing it at Blockbuster, and there's this really provocative picture of Kate Hudson on the cover, like, in her underwear, and I was like, ooh, intrigued by that, but it must be like an X rated film that I won't be able to see so actually I don't even feel like at that point I even got it, because it was like, Too much when it first came out, um, but then a few years later I watched it and it's like that that front cover is like no way reflective of what the film is like she is like you never she doesn't do drugs. She like barely drinks like there isn't anything like that going on
James:Her character and the posse of, of, of kind of women or girls around it,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:the band
James:quite appealing. band Aids, God, Yeah, it seems quite appealing. yeah, you know,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:And they're very much in control. They're the ones who deflower the main character. He's kind of the innocent one, but they all take him under their wing and look after him, and it's all very cute. I guess, again, I mean, it's just nostalgia, isn't it? An idealized I think the 90s people were starting to feel very cynical about life, so it's maybe just about, like, tapping
James:back at the good old days and this is the ultimate the good old days like you know you can't if you if you were to look at almost famous and say is that what it was like wow it seems great you know it was rock and roll everyone was kind of nice but it was all a bit sexy and free and you know it's the most rose tinted of the three films by far
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, but I mean, again, a brilliant cast. We're getting to a few other areas of commonality between these films is that, yes, seventies, yes, amazing music, great needle drops, but also incredible ensemble casts in all three films. I feel like the nineties was a really The peak of good ensemble casting, again, like whilst you could still make films with the budget to get this kind of huge, strong cast.
James:It's probably just at the cusp before film stars were demanding such big paychecks, you know, the nineties was the rise of the, you know, like Arnold Schwarzenegger getting something like 25 million for a movie, but, I think you could still package a movie and have, and also a lot of these actors, not only could you get an ensemble class, but a lot of these people, of course, it was either their very first film roles or very early days. Yeah. So in hindsight, it's like an amazing ensemble at the time. It was, it was a cast of relative
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah, Exactly, exactly, yeah, so as we said, Kate Hudson plays Penny Lane, Frances McDormand plays William's mum, William is played by Patrick Fugit. Anna Paquin is also in there and Zooey Deschanel as William's sister and Philip Seymour Hoffman plays Lester Bangs, this rock critic who's the, uh, the mentor of William. He's incredible.
James:Always watchable.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, he's So, so, perfect in this film.
James:You weren't so enamored with it this time around, but what did you enjoy about it when you watched it in your teen years? And what, what made you keep going back?
Lily S3 E10 Audio:The main thing is just that. Kate Hudson looks so great in the wardrobe. The costume is fantastic. And that definitely, if you've seen some of the things I've, I've worn over the years, it's definitely, yeah, do you know the big like 70s suede coat with the fur? That was like, A lifelong mission to try and find a coat like Kate Hudson's in Almost Famous. So the main thing is the film and the music. I think watching this film was also very formative in like my music education. I mean, most of the songs in it are pretty well known, I'm like, wow, like their budget must've been insane for music, but lots of fans I hadn't heard of before I was introduced to through this film. So it's, it's amazing for that. And you know what? I think probably the other reason it wasn't just Kate Hudson's great. Styling. I think that when I was watching it, as a teenager, the idea of like freedom, like
James:Running away with the rock
Lily S3 E10 Audio:running away of a rock band. Yeah, I think that the film does paint a great picture of that. And that's all you want when you're a kid, right? Is to have that kind of freedom, but in a very safe, healthy environment where everyone's really nice.
James:But like the one that's kind of essayed out in Almost Famous.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, I have one other thing to say. I think like.
James:it, Lily. Preach.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Okay, well, William, the character, the Cameron Crowe character that we're following through, this teenage boy, like, Is he or is he not a bit of a sociopath? Because he loves Penny Lane, he's obsessed with her, like, as any, like, sensible person should be. But there's this weird moment towards the end where she's, like, OD'd on Quaaludes, and he calls a doctor to come and save her. And as she is being, having her stomach pumped and you see kind of a side shot of that. So you, it's kind of, you don't have to confront the full thing, but it's quite uncomfortable to watch. He has this serene half smile on his face. And he's just like staring at her sweetly because he kissed her for like a second, a few minutes ago. And that's clearly all he's thinking about. I just, I was like, I don't remember this. I mean, I remember the scene from watching it before. But I didn't remember his expression. I thought, my god, this guy's a psycho. Like, you should be horrified. No one wants to see someone having their stomach pumped.
James:so if we're looking at the traits of a sociopath, you're saying lack of empathy, he should be more horrified, whereas I think it's more teenage boy can't believe his luck,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, and doesn't give doesn't give Who cares wherever or not she lives? I finally got my first kiss from the love of my life.
James:I think I, my, I'm, I'm on that take. And he's just like a, like, he's the most horrific thing ever, but he's just like, hooray. I kissed a girl.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, no. Alright, well, shall we, on that note, shall we move on to Boogie Nights? Finally!
James:Finally. Yeah. I bloody love this film.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:love it, it's one of my favourite films. Definitely top 50, maybe top 20. It's definitely my favourite Paul Thompson movie.
James:Yeah, I think it might be my favorite, Paul Thomas Anderson as well. And I think like you, I think it's definitely top 20. Top 20 might, it could even at times circle around the lower end of the top 10, you know,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:I would love to see, we should make a little Venn diagram of our top 20 and see, are there any other movies that are in Bofar that
James:'cause it is, it is. It is a, it's a rarity where I think where we get one, we're both like, yep, this is a great
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, it's great because unlike those other two films, this does not give a completely idealized painted picture of, of the, of the 70s,
James:I think what it very cleverly does, one of the many, many great things about the film is that it lures you in like the other two films with this kind of rose tinted impression of the 70s you know, it kind of idealizes a little bit the porn industry, uh, then everyone's friends and gets on but it does that. It's a D. It's a D Everyone's having a great time. It's all lots of fun the sun's shining, everything seems to be going well And then then, you know things take a turn and then we I love how it goes from the 70s. Sorry The film is about the um a young Mark Wahlberg who plays uh I can't remember his non... Well, that's his porn name. I can't remember his non porn name.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:It's Ed, it's Ed something, who cares.
James:Is it?
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Eddie, he's like Eddie Eastern or something. I dunno.
James:It's like a classic, like, it's like Star Wars. You've got your Luke Skywalker, your Innocent, who goes into a bigger world. Dirk Diggler. And Innocent goes into the bigger world of the porn industry. Um, you know, and it shows he's a... He's his rise and fall and then he's somewhere in the middle at the end.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, Here's rise and fall, which echoes the rise and fall of the porn industry from the seventies to the eighties, or at least the, the evolution of the industry for people who are involved in it, because as you mentioned earlier on, like it's a, it's a time when we. We go from recording on film and showing straight in cinemas, right, to like becoming tapes.
James:That's the turning point in Boogie Nights is we go from this, cause even looking at the, the kind of in the film, the pornos that are made shot on film, they have a certain like look to them. That's kind of appealing. The, the, the aesthetic of them. And then when you go to the stuff that they shot on video, it just looks horrible. And that, that reflects like. everything changes when we get to the 80s because the industry changes and Burt Reynolds, um, as Jack Horner, who's like the impresario, um, who produces all these porn films. And, you know, he, he was obviously in his, um, in his Peak during the 70s and the film era and then he's trying, he's struggling to keep relevant in the kind of the 80s and with tape it's still even watching now It breaks my heart when we get into that 80s section when we've set up all these characters and it just gets so dark
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, it does get dark, but it's... I mean, it's interesting, right, because the porn industry, how it evolved, it was still, even though you're right, the production value diminished. It was still a very lucrative industry with the change to tape. So what was heartbreaking for me watching is Jack Horner, like refusing to change, refusing to evolve. Because yeah, I'm thinking about this film being made in the 90s. So at that point, we were moving into like DVDs and we know what's going to come with the porn industry, which is like the advent of free porn and how that has completely destroyed the porn industry and destroyed it for the people who. Everyone is enjoying that they're not being paid. So it's like the heartbreaking thing for me was watching this man not take the opportunity to still have a good career in this industry when we know that in 20, 30, 40 years time, there is going to be basically no like business at all for the people who are doing the work in
James:But Lily he want,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:this industry.
James:director and taken seriously he wants to shoot on film He's an auteur porn director
Lily S3 E10 Audio:God, and it's so interesting reading about the making of Boogie Nights with that in mind, because there's a really brilliant, uh, oral history, um, of Boogie Nights that you can read online. I'll put a link to it in the show notes. It was basically the writer, he's, he did some interviews, but he also compiled, like, quotes from, other interviews. And he talks about, because some of the... uh, cast were actual porn actors. So for example, the judge in the scene where, um, where Julianne Moore's character goes to try and get custody of a child, the judge is played by a porn actor and they talked about on set how there was this real, like, split in the cast between the, the, The porn actors and the non porn actors, like, most of the porn actors wouldn't really engage, and most of the, I keep wanting to say real actors, I'm so sorry, not the real actors, the non porn actors didn't want to engage with the porn actors. Julianne Moore, like, barely looked, looked at Nina Hartley in the eye, according to her. It really, that really, like, gutted me to hear that. Well, Nina Hartley, and she didn't play the judge, but she plays, um, Bill's wife, you know, the one who, I won't spoil it, but, uh, the one who keeps cheating on him. Yeah, yeah.
James:I didn't clock that.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Also, I'm sorry. I didn't know who Nina Hartley was until I did my research. Is she a very well known porn actor? Or just a favorite of yours, James?
James:She's, no, she's just like, there's like only a couple of names I could think of from the 70s. Like, you know, when you read any articles that touch upon the porn industry, Nina Hartley is one of them. I
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so just like in the movie itself, where these people who are trying to be taken seriously and they, and in their own little world, they're happy and at least initially, but actually in the outside world, like they're treated very differently and it's kind of the same thing, like in even the making of the film.
James:I mean, there's a wonderful bit where, where two of the characters, Don Cheadle's character, who's a porn performer, he, he and his partner try and get a business loan and they get refused it because they are porn stars. So they, they're almost ghettoized. They can't escape the life that they're in because they've kind of destroyed their credibility in society at large.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah. And that's still, that's still very much the, the same today as, you know, probably most of our listeners know. But yeah, but it's again, incredible, incredible cast, loads of actors at the start of the career. This was Mark Wahlberg's first film, uh, and he's since, I think, or at least his first Big film. He was basically coming straight out of the music. I mean, he's since said that he really regrets making it, which really upsets me. I'm like, babe, you should be bloody grateful.
James:I don't really watch Mark Wahlberg films, you know, in general, because most of them aren't my kind of thing, but he's amazing in this. And he's also great in I Heart Huckabees, which is another untypical, uh, kind of film for him to be in.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:I haven't seen that film actually, I really need to.
James:Oh, that we, maybe we should save that for a pod that, that I I'd love to chat. I'd love to chat to you on here about I Heart Huckabees.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:a divisive film, isn't it?
James:Absolutely.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:no more about that But yes, we'll get back to
James:Anyway, I had one of my best times at the cinema watching Boogie Nights because I saw it in 1998 before it. was released in the UK and I was, I was studying at Bradford University and part of the degree was, um, actually There's a media and film museum in Bradford and so one third of our teaching was in the museum and they actually have one of the best cinemas in the world is in Bradford it's called Pictureville Cinema go check it out it's got the only Cinerama screen left in the world which is the Only place you can see 2001 Space Odyssey as Stanley Kubrick intended. Anyway, it's wonderful. And we were having a lecture there and they just said, okay, we're going to show you a film, um, today's class rather than do a lecture. We decided to show you a film. We've got the print here because I think there was a film festival showing in a couple of weeks time. He said, so it's not even out yet. So I mean, so we didn't know what we were seeing. It We'd never heard of Paul Thomas Anderson because this was his second feature. I sat back in one of the best cinemas in the world, 35mm film print, Boogie Nights starts, that very first, uh, scene, which is a close up of a neon sign that says Boogie Nights, the camera swoops down from the logo. Onto a street scene, cars go past, it's like night time in, in L. A. And then we go through the doors of a nightclub and there's disco everywhere. We get in, it's like a continuous take. And I was like, I am completely into this film from the get go. Like, It's one of my favorite cinematic experience because I did not know what we were going to watch. I didn't know anything about it. And I was blown away.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:That is amazing. Yeah, that first scene is great. I mean, it's, it was a punchy thing to do, right? Because it was like, obviously, like, copying Goodfellas, which has only come out like a few years before, um, but done so, so well. The perfect introduction to this world where you, yeah, you weave, you follow one of the characters as he's walking around his club and interact with all the people that we're soon going to come back to. It's like, really whets your appetite for what's to
James:it, and it draws you in, it's, it's, it's another part of the seduction, you are immediately from the get go drawn into this very seductive world of disco and seventies and it looks fun and I want, and you want to be part of that gang, you want to be in the middle of that world and, and, and also that opening shot. It's, um, you know, I do think Paul Thomas Anderson is a master of blocking, which we've discussed on, on here a few times about blocking. Like you, you watch all those scenes, like, you know, when they go to Jack Horner's house for the first time and Mark Wahlberg meets everybody. It's another continuous take. And we go to the cocktail bar. We follow a girl into the pool and go underwater. And these long takes are just quite immersive. They allow you to kind of get a feel of the environment and pull you in
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah, paul Thomas Anson said that he wanted the film to feel the way he felt when he was watching these kinds of porn films as a teenager, some bits are quite titillating, some are very funny, and then other bits are quite depressing and grim, and I really feel that in this film, that's why I love it so much, is that it is really bleak, it can be quite violent, it's definitely, like, not a Dory's Tinted picture, but there's also so much about it that is very alluring, like, you do want to be friends with these people, the clothes are amazing, there is, there is something kind of sexy about it at certain points, and then predominantly there is a lot that is really, really funny, like, laugh out loud funny. So just that balance, that's what I want for a movie.
James:Yeah. Oh yeah. And you get, you get it in spades in this film you get drawn into the warmth of the seventies, but you get kind of put through the ringer in the eighties. Like you really feel it's like it's quite merciless to all of its characters, which then gives you that cathartic release when right at the end, things kind of just turn around a little bit for our Mr. Dirk Diggler, uh, Mark Wahlberg's character.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad for that.
James:When I was kind of doing a bit of background research of this, I was like hang on a sec, I'm pretty sure that Paul Thomas Anderson is, give or take a few years, about my age, which means there's no way he remembers the 70s. So this is the only film out of the three that isn't based on his childhood me or not, well, his growing up memories of the 70s. He, he must have been born in the 70s, but I'm, I'm gonna Go out on a limb here and say, you probably can't remember it. So it's beautifully realized for someone who wasn't there
Lily S3 E10 Audio:he was, okay. Yeah. He wasn't there in literally the seventies when this film was set, but he grew up in the San Fernando Valley. His dad was a filmmaker, so he was very much in this world and he was, he was living where in, like in the heart of the porn industry, like that. That's literally the place where it was. So I think, yeah, okay. He chose a fan, like the most interesting moment really in, in the porn industry's history, that, that switch there.
James:a bit like singing, singing in the rain is about going from silent to, to talk is here. We've got going from film to video,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Exactly. Yeah. Those, those two would be a fantastic double bill. But, you know, but yeah, it was still, I still think it's definitely like drawing on, it's a world that he very much knew, like, okay, it's not as overtly, autobiographical as licorice pizza, but I think, you know, it, it's definitely drawing on something that he's very, I'm sure very, interested in part because he was growing up in that world. Like he, he has talked about like watching those tapes when he was a kid, you know, so like it's definitely informed by that. In fact, he actually, this. this. was a story that he, he came up with as a teenager. Like he, he first wrote and filmed the Dirk Diggler story when he was a teenager.
James:in 1988.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, he made a mockumentary short about this porn star character using friends of his and, and real actors. Like, so, you know, it was something that He'd been like, maybe he wasn't in that world exactly, but you know,
James:He'd been thinking about it for a long time, or it'd been in his mind since 88. So like 10 years, it had been kind of bubbling around.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah, so you know the story itself he was making a story about a story that he that was from his childhood So it's like a meta
James:good point. I hadn't thought of it like that. Yeah, actually, very interesting. And also, I just think as a filmmaker, like you look at his films since then, there will be Blood and, um, Phantom Thread. He's a master at period. You know, like, especially on Not Much Money. You know,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah the master as well.
James:Oh God, yeah. Sorry, I keep, I've forgotten how many great films he's made. I think this might be my favourite. It's possibly a tie up with, um, There Will Be Blood, but I think Boogie Nights gets it just because There Will Be Blood, it's a pretty grim setting. It doesn't have, it's got no romance about it. It's got no, like, warmth.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't really That film does not excite me in the, in the, in the same way I have to say, but, but can we just, I want to just quickly circle back to the cast because, Again, such a, such a good ensemble cast. We mentioned Mark Wahlberg and Bert Russells and Julianne Moore, but also Heather Graham, John C. Reilly, Philip Seymour Hoffman, again, In one of
James:what a,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:that he's ever played, like it's so
James:so good. I feel awkward every time he's on screen. His awkwardness just kind of oozes out of the screen.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah, and he, and there's something, you know, he wears all these very tight, small clothes, which apparently that was, you know, deliberate choice because it wanted to be like, he's kind of a man child who isn't yet, he's wearing the, literally the clothes of like a teenage boy when he is, It's a grown man, and it just perfectly ties in with this vulnerability of this character who like, yeah, isn't really comfortable in his own skin, like you say. It's so well done. I'd like, but that's what's amazing. Oh, and also Alfred Molina playing that. Yeah, he's amazing. He played, I don't want to spoil it, so I won't say any more actually, if you haven't watched it,
James:I'd like to say that sequence with Alfred Molina, that's an incredible set piece that you don't expect in the film because it's like a, a, a tense thriller sequence. I won't spoil anything, but like it's, it's, it's an unexpected little treat and that yanks you as well because suddenly you are in this. sequence that the tension in that sequence, it like, it ratchets up. And like, Oh, right. I remember at the time at the cinema thinking I am in the hands of a master filmmaker because he's suddenly kind of swapped genres for a little bit. And I'm suddenly like now on the edge of my seat.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah. And he was only 27 when he made the film. It's like crazy. Yeah. cause you're right like that, that scene, I sort of hate it as much as I love it because I don't wanna spoil it, but, but the, the noise in it, it's so, like, it's just perfectly like, puts you on edge. Everything about that film, it just anxiety inducing. You are so there with the, with the characters. And apparently that, that, that long shot of Mark Wahlberg just staring off, PTA just asked the, like, one of the cameramen to just focus on him during the, like, three days of filming, just to, like, Yeah, that wasn't, like, him acting. That was literally just him.
James:Cause that is quite, like, watching it this time round, I really noticed that shot. Like, I was like, he's just, like, yeah, he, he just he doesn't, he seems to come out of nowhere.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, well, he's definitely kind of disassociating because It's almost like I can't cope with this stress that I'm in, and then it's, like, suddenly breaking, like, okay, we gotta go, we gotta go.
James:Yeah.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:good. So good.
James:And like, like, it's the least glamorous portrayal of cocaine use, you know, it just, it's just a horrible, like, you know, the eighties gets tangled in everybody starts getting hooked on cocaine. It
Lily S3 E10 Audio:But still also so funny when that guy is like, This is, oh, I can't believe this! This is the second girl in two weeks who's OD'd
James:Really?
Lily S3 E10 Audio:on me! Apparently that to That's like master filmmaking, though, when it can still be funny, even though you're absolutely like horrified by everything that you're seeing.
James:That's it, like, look, the fact, it's very mature, that's the thing, it's like, he can juggle these different tones and it not seem like a clashing car crash, and it just seems so, like, I don't know, yeah, I remember watching it thinking, God damn it, he can really direct. It just feels so, like, because like you say his dad was a director and since he was a kid he'd been directing things and when you watch some of the footage of like the Dirt Diggler story, even though it's shot on video handycam, you can see he's good,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah. Well, Yeah. apparently that film was kind of doing the rounds. And like, there was like, it was sort of known in LA is a good film to see. Like he said that everyone who knew him thought it was awful, but anyone who didn't know him, like thought it was pretty good. Um, but I think it's, it's just that he's so good at creating very Fully formed characters that are very ambiguous, but still have a lot of heart. I remember the first time watching it as a teenager and being like so confused about how I felt about Julianne Moore in that part because I really loved her and was so taken with her maternal instinct. But then she is also someone who is complete, like, is not a good mother to her children and like really struggling with this with a severe drug abuse. Addiction and, and clearly some like mental health stuff and it's like, it's just so well done and with, you know, every character is like that. Yeah,
James:you you you care, you care about these very, very flawed characters, you care about all of them, you know, by the end of it, you know, you are, you are invested and you care about them, even though you are shown that. they are not perfect at all, and they have got many, many issues, yeah.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:and I think that's, that's what makes this, to me, like, a much more engaging film because it's almost famous, there really isn't that ambiguity, it's not as complex, so I think Dazed and Confused, funnily enough, is actually a little better at
James:Yeah, oh, oh, I completely agree. I like, like, if we're going to, on Rose Tintedness, it's almost Famous Days and Confused then, then, uh, Boogie Nights. Yeah,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah, yeah, Boogie
James:but, and also, you know, just one final thought for me is, is that in the film, he, you know, one of the big transitions is going from the 70s, the 80s, going from film to videotape. And Paul Thomas Anderson is a filmmaker who is one of the very few who still, Shoots on film and make sure there's a film print available in his film so you can enjoy them in this analog method. So he's, he's on the 70s side of the Boogie Nights story still. He knows, he wants to maintain that magic. He's not, he's not moved his films over to digital yet.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, so watch this film and be, be buoyed by the fact that at least Paul Thomas Anderson is still on the right side of history.
James:Exactly.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:do you think it is about the 70s That appealed to 90s directors
James:you know, films go through trends, for example, we're coming off the back, thank God, of like a superhero trend that's been going on for a decade, And I think that there's something to do with every decade we get directors looking back to either their youth, like they look back 20, 30 years, like I went to the cinema last year and I went to see Pirates, which is set in 1999 about these kind of UK garage, uh, kind of little drama.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Right. and the mid 90s, Jonah, Jonah Hill film came out a few years before that.
James:I think every decade we get this little, um, spurt of films that were set when the directors were growing up because it's something that they can, they, they've got some lived experience with. So, you know, for the one that I'm thinking of right now is of back to future, you know, from the eighties, but set in the fifties. So I think every decade that the new generation of directors coming along. Look to their childhood. Because it's a rich scene to draw on. even though the story itself might be fictional, they can set it in a world that they can... can make feel authentic. So as a newer director, it's probably a safer bet to stick to something within the last 20 years of your life.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Maybe. I don't think that's the whole story, though. I think that, because we, we chose films that are kind of, I think, without even realizing, we chose films that were pretty much all, to some extent, like, drawing on the filmmakers childhoods. And they're all ensemble cast, all kind of our chosen family. There are all these, like, coincidences between them. But what I think is that also it's just like a war, a cultural thing, right? In that looking back 10 years feels just like, in our collective understanding of previous decades, that isn't yet fully formed. It's like you need that 20 25 year gap to like kind of crystallize this like general understanding of what this era is. And then to draw on that because these film appeal because they all do. Yeah. They all fit with our collective understanding of what the 70s was. They all hit on this, that they all use music from that era that we are all familiar with, actually. None of them are that used particularly niche choices. It's quite deliberate. It's like very much trying to evoke this nostalgic feeling in us. So it has to click with that, what we already understand the 70s to be. And I think, so I think that's a big part of it too, is just like, We get this, like, 25 to 30 year cycle. Yeah, exactly. But, but look back on something that we already have, have, have formed, that culture has formed as, like, the collective understanding of what that time period was, you
James:Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that makes sense. Yeah. So, so hopefully mishmash our thoughts together there. And this, there's something I think,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, I feel like that was a real, real mishmash. I'm not sure if I fully got what it is, but I'm happy. I'm happy for that. I feel like the 90s very well, and I'm looking forward to more movies set in the 90s. God, it's soon going to be like the early noughties. That is like the next thing,
James:They're coming though. They're coming.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:And we never actually said, but the whole reason we wanted to talk about this subject was because it's the 30th anniversary this year of Days Unconfused being made. And it is interesting to look back 30 years. In the past. At the films being made then, I see that the films being made then were about the 30 years before that.
James:I'm asking the question now, Lily. I wonder if Richard Linklater is thinking, ah, maybe we do a sequel to Dazed and Confused set in 1993.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Oh my god. That would be so good, wouldn't it?
James:Yeah. A bit of a catch up. Yeah.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Or would it? They'd all be in their 40s.
James:The thing is, because they were all at school, that was the reason they're all in the same space. Whereas now they'd all be disparate. What would be the reason for
Lily S3 E10 Audio:would have to be some kind of school reunion, but who goes to school reunions? Only Romy and Michelle did that well.
James:A film I have never seen, but maybe one day.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Oh honey, it's coming. It's coming for you.
James:Well, on that note, shall we take a little trip to the film pharmacy?
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Ah, yes, let's do it. so, this week we have a very positive entry to the Film Pharmacy. We were asked, is there a film you wish you hadn't watched?
James:Yes, definitely. I've definitely got one. And, and the thing is, Lily, I wish I hadn't watched it, but I don't talk about it because I don't, what I don't want to do is for people to be intrigued enough to watch it. So this is like the opposite of a, this is the anti film pharmacy. This is the dark film pharmacy. This is a not recommended, do not watch, do not be intrigued by my suggestion, by my film.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:The more you say the word intrigued, the more I want to watch it. What is
James:ha ha
Lily S3 E10 Audio:everything.
James:Ah, it's, it's by, um, I can't tell you everything, it'll, it'll tear my soul apart. It's, uh, by Pier Paolo Pasolini, Italian director, and it's called Salo. Which is, uh, based on the Marquis de Sade, um, story, uh, but it's, uh, moved to, I think, the 1940s, fascist Italy, and a group of locals in a village are rounded up by the, kind of, the upper class, and they are, uh, Subjected to, uh, it just, I don't really want to go into it. It was just, just horrible, horrible, horrible. I felt like my soul had been scarred coming out of it. It's the only film I've ever been to where I would say there was about, maybe not a half, but maybe at least a solid one third of the audience walked out as the film was progressing.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Oh my god, that
James:And I, and I was like, shall I join them? And I was like, no, I think, I think I should stay. But, uh.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:my god, James. That, yeah, that sounds... full on.
James:Yep.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:You know what, I mean, how old were you when you watched that?
James:Oh, I was like a, I was a grown ass man. I was like 24, 25.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:24.
James:I saw it at the cinema in Manchester.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:The film that always comes back to me as being very disturbing is when I watch the I'll never forget, I came home and it was on TV, so I kind of joined it halfway through or something. And then we get to this, like, horribly disturbing, like, creepy scene with a guy and a camera and that was it for me. I was like, I can't, I can't be doing with this. This is too much. And it's always stayed in my mind as being horribly disturbing, um, but it was fame.
James:What the hell? What the hell, Lily? Fame.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:know! Same!
James:how can anybody find that, like, the most disturbing, whatever, film that you wish you hadn't watched?
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Because there was, because that's the thing, when I, being a child, that film, if anyone's seen it, it's like a perfectly run of the mill, like, Coming of age dance school drama, but then for, for no reason, there is a scene in it where like, there's a very small plot line where one of the characters is like approached by a filmmaker who's like, Oh, you're brilliant. I want to, you know, I would love you to be in my next movie. And then it's just like the most creepy thing where he makes her take her clothes off and she's crying and he's like, put your thumb in your mouth. It is disturbing. And it's just like so bizarre because the rest of the film is not really For my mind, as a child watching it, I haven't seen it since, of course, so I don't know. It felt really at odds with everything else and what I thought the film was going to be. Like,
James:If we'd have played, you describe the scene and I guess the film, fame would have been not even on the list of films it could have been.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:I don't disagree. There are far worse films out there than Fame. But the thing is, it's all about the context, isn't it? And being a very innocent, lucky child, like, that was just like, you know, so chilling blood curdling.
James:I have to say that there's no context where Sailor would be a context where, oh, this was quite a pleasant watch. Not at all. Avoid, please, please.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, you, you make a, yeah, you make a good point. I mean, there are those films that are very deliberately trying to scar your soul, as you say. I feel like, I don't know what that one was about, really. I mean, I just, I hate that kind of films, like, film inconsistency, you know, tonal inconsistency, which I can't,
James:in Boogie Nights, the tonal shifts worked. Whereas in, it sounds what you just described in,
Lily S3 E10 Audio:yeah, and I felt that way in Almost Famous as well. Like, I do think there is a bit of inconsistency in the tone during the film. We go to these quite dark moments when the film is actually a more lighter thing. And I don't think it always, you know, like the, the moments of emotional intensity. I don't feel I really earn in that film.
James:no, not at all. And that, that's, that's the sign of like a really good filmmaker is being able to kind of get you to go with these tonal shifts or you don't even notice the tonal shifts.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Yeah, but having said that, I think all the films Bar Silo that we've mentioned are worth a watch if you want that hit of 70s nostalgia and particularly 90s The 90s version of 70s nostalgia, which I think is particularly special. Give them all a watch.
James:Absolutely.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:All right. Well on that note We're gonna wrap up. Thank you so much for listening guys
James:Thank you very much. And if you could, uh, find your way to leaving us a like or leaving us a review, it all helps get the podcast out to a bigger audience.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:Absolutely. So we're gonna be taking a couple of weeks off But we will be back in a fortnight for the second half of the series. So don't miss us too much
James:Please.
Lily S3 E10 Audio:And we'll see you soon. Bye!
James:Bye.