Saltburn: Are we really eating the rich? Ft. Culture Colander

This week we are joined by Audra and Elisa from Culture Colander. They bring an American perspective to a very British class system as we dissect Emerald Fennell’s new film Saltburn, i.e. The Talented Mr Creepley.

References
Listen to and follow @culturecolander
Interview with Emerald Fennell and the cast of Saltburn
‘The sons and daughters of The Talented Mr Ripley’ by Manuela Lazic for The Ringer
The New Yorker Radio Hour episode where Emerald Fennell talks about her upbringing

Film Pharmacy
Friends Best Thanksgiving Moments
The Greatest Showman (2017) dir. by Michael Gracey
Dan in Real Life (2007) dir. by Peter Hedges

Gimme Three - A Series For Cinephiles

Gimme Three is a love letter cinema. 3 films. 1 Theme. A hell of a lot of fun!

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Transcript

Elisa: 0:00

what if we just destroyed these evil men

Lily: 0:13

to groovy movies. My name is Lilly Austin.

James: 0:15

And my name's James Brailsford. Hello.

Lily: 0:18

And this week on the podcast, we have a very special episode because we are joined by Elisa and Audra from the podcast Culture Colander. Woo!

Audra: 0:28

Woo!

James: 0:28

Woo! hello, welcome.

Audra: 0:30

James and Lily.

Elisa: 0:31

Hi!

James: 0:31

Hello, glad to have you on here.

Elisa: 0:33

So good to see you guys again.

Lily: 0:35

So good to see

James: 0:36

lovely.

Lily: 0:37

Yeah. So because we were on your podcast a little while ago, actually, I can't, I couldn't believe how long it's been.

Audra: 0:43

It was before the Oscars this year.

Lily: 0:45

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, we, we came on your podcast to talk about the whale and we basically ever since been looking for an opportunity to have you back on to talk about a film, so yeah,

James: 0:58

Where best can we use your expertise?

Audra: 1:01

We've been, we've been keeping a very close eye on our inbox, wondering when we might get the invite.

Lily: 1:06

when you get the call up and before we get into, into the film, actually, why didn't you tell us a bit about Colch Colander?

Audra: 1:12

So hi, I'm Audra, one of the co hosts of Culture Colander, where we hosted Lily and James earlier this year, and I'll let Ellie or Elisa fill in the gaps. But one of the, I think, things we really try to do with culture colander is model conscious consumption. So I, I think often we have more questions than answers. So I'm not exactly sure how, many like thesis statements or takeaways we tend to have, but we just like talking to our smart friends and bringing in sometimes smart British friends.

Elisa: 1:47

The idea with the podcast, I would say our structure is each episode one of us brings a topic that the other doesn't know what we're gonna be discussing. So one of us brings the research and the other serves as a proxy to the audience. Gets to ask questions rather than both of us being very well informed and talking down to someone. There's an entry point of, I have no idea what you're talking about, please walk me through this. And it really is any cultural or social phenomenon that we learn about that we want to... Discuss. It feels kind of like if you read a crazy article and then go to dinner with your friend and you're like, I need to tell you about this that I read about. Um, it, it, it kind of feels like that.

James: 2:29

I listened to your latest episode about YouTube and I loved it because it's kind of friendly and it's fun. It's very kind of got an informal feel to it, but there's lots of information there, which is my, my favorite combination. It's like, I like to have fun, like to learn some stuff.

Audra: 2:41

I know, you're, you're almost, I feel like Ellie, she's the one who hosted that episode. She does a good job where you're laughing so much you don't even realize how many facts she packed in. You're like, oh my

James: 2:51

Sneak them in, sneak them into the brain box.

Lily: 2:54

For me it was the Taylor Swift lyrics episode. That was very close to my heart and I thought I knew everything, but I learned a lot from that episode. So if any, if any, if any of our listeners are Swifties, I would say that's a very good entry point as well.

Audra: 3:11

Okay, well, that's the permission I need to do another Taylor Swift episode, so

Lily: 3:15

Yes, more, more. Definitely, definitely, I will, I will be listening. Okay, so I think we have a good, framing for this episode because we thought this would be a good one to have you guys on for because we're talking about Saltburn, Emerald Fennell's new movie. And as you guys may be able to tell from... These are in Orge's accents, they are American and we're obviously British. So I thought it might be quite fun to discuss this film because the, primary theme is about class and I guess class infiltration. So I thought it'd

James: 3:50

Yeah. And it's just.

Lily: 3:50

to hear about it from, from. Yeah,

James: 3:54

The kind of assumptions you may have about the English and the class system through films and media and how that's portrayed in films is an interesting perspective, I think.

Lily: 4:02

yeah, and how it compares with the U. S. Sprite, because I feel like both have very, I think, well established class systems, but they're slightly different,

Audra: 4:11

Yeah, and I think the perceptions are different too, which I'm sure we'll get into as well. I think that there's a great amount of perceived social mobility in the U. S., and maybe we don't have as formal a class system or one where we actually talk about people as being part of this family of land barons or in this elite class or anything like quite so formal. But is our social mobility really accessible? To be debated, for sure.

Lily: 4:39

Okay, well, shall we kick off James?

James: 4:42

I saw that I going through the listing of the running orders like oh my god I see what you've done here. You got in there first Lily. Okay. I'm doing the plot synopsis. Yes So yeah, Saltburn. It's the second film by Emerald Fennell. First film was Promising Young Woman, which we're big fans of on this particular podcast, a brilliant debut feature So I was fascinated to see what the follow would be it's, a very different story from her first film, but this time we are following, a young student who starting his life at Oxford and he appears to be like a working class kid. quite a bit of a nerdy character, quite a loner, and we follow him as he befriends and gets to know a very clearly upper class person from money called Felix, who he befriends. And then they get to know each other and Felix kind of takes him under his wing. so he gets invited to the family estate for a summer, which is of course the titular Saltburn. And then, I don't know, I'm sure we're going to have to spoil the

Lily: 5:40

We're going to have to spoil it. I'm so sorry, guys.

James: 5:42

Yeah, sorry, but, but, but,

Elisa: 5:43

Listen at your own risk.

Lily: 5:45

Yeah,

James: 5:46

we'll spoil it as we talk about it. So this summary won't particularly spoil it, but then things Unravel, the plot thickens, things take twists and turns, once we're at Saltburn and we realize perhaps things aren't as they first appeared.

Lily: 5:58

so I thought following on when we discussed the whale on your podcast, I thought it was a good, it'd be a good starting point to each go around and say a pro and a con, something we liked and perhaps something we didn't like from the film. Uh,

Audra: 6:12

and I'm prepared to keep it to just one sentence this time, unlike when I hosted you. I'm, I'm

Lily: 6:17

I was the same! I remember! Yeah, okay. Audra, hit us with a

Elisa: 6:21

Audra in front of a microphone. She, she gets excited.

Lily: 6:25

ha

Audra: 6:26

why I have a podcast. Okay, so one pro, or one thing I liked, is just how... Stunning. The whole thing is from the set to the shooting itself. I thought it was an absolute delight, even during the more kind of heart racing scenes. It's just so fun to be looking at. I never wanted to tear my eyes away. So I think that that's, at least part of what made it so gripping where maybe the plot or not the plot, but the believability seems to be lacking. I was still eyes glued to the screen. For my dislike, I might've just alluded to it, I just didn't find a lot of the twists believable, which we can get into later, but I just, going back and re litigating them, I don't know how feasible some of that stuff really was.

Lily: 7:19

totally. Elisa, do you want to do yours?

Elisa: 7:22

also I loved the aesthetics of the film, but to give a different pro, I really liked the attention to detail for having like high and low elements in the house in Saltburn and it really being so 2007 with certain elements and I think the treatment of this beautiful place but having um, Um, Like party hats on the marble statues and random little kind of crappy elements was really, really great. And I think my con, I wanted a little more explanation or showing more of Oliver's motivations. Like where does this guy come from? Why does he have this weird evil twist? I understood more the obsession and the crush, but then suddenly becoming this like, Murderer was a little out of pocket. I was like, wait, what's, what's up with this guy? So, I, I wish I had a little more insight into his background.

Lily: 8:27

James.

James: 8:28

I have to agree with you both as far as my positive, which is just the aesthetic, the visuals, know, the cinematography was absolutely wonderful and I, like you, I was well, very much appreciating the use of top to bottom cinematography. I thought the square aspect ratio, the shape of the frame really lent itself to. Cause widescreen films are horizontal, which means it favors left to right composition. Whereas a square frame you notice above and below, which I think was used all the way through the film to signify power and shift in dynamics. So, so I, I loved that. you know, that, that was, I was watching that and noting how they coded into it, this idea of who's, who's got the upper hand, who's superior, and I think that square frame helped that. My negative, um, maybe it was the plot felt a little bit meandering in the middle, perhaps.

Lily: 9:13

Sounds quite positive on the, on the whole, James. I, uh, yeah. Okay. I, I have to follow all your guys as pro Daphne, the look at the film. So I'll try and think of something different. Um, one thing I really liked was I liked the humor in it. I liked the slightly over the top characterization of, Felix's family. The, his Sir Catton played by Richard E. Grant and, uh, an Ellsworth Catton played by Rosman Pike, his parents. I, I really enjoyed all of the humor. In those moments, I feel like the, the representation of, of this class felt fairly accurate in a way, like that read to me as quite believable, the absurdity and the kind of the shallowness and I don't know, the kind of obliviousness. I quite enjoyed that. But then on the other side, the con was that to me, there didn't seem to be much underneath any of that. Like, I'm pretty sure I, uh, Emerald Fennel characterizes this as like an eat the rich type film along the, like, which is so on trend right now with like White Lotus and Succession and then, you know, Triangle of Sadness and all these

Elisa: 10:28

It felt like a British parasite. Mm.

Lily: 10:31

Exactly. Exactly. But for me, I was like that. I don't think it like, I don't think it went far enough with that. It didn't, it didn't really go anywhere with it really. It felt very, um, surface

Elisa: 10:43

eat them. Really?

Lily: 10:45

No. Yeah. Well he, he did, but we were all like, you're gross for having eaten then. maybe we should, on that note, we should kind of get into it. What did you guys think of the, like, the depiction of class in it? As Americans, how does that read to you?

Audra: 11:42

I think, to Lily's point, the callousness really comes through in a way that, yes, is played for humor, but it's also interesting to hear that it was so believable, because there were some super cringey moments. For example, the mom, Elspeth, complaining that she has to go to London. Just for us to find out that she's going for her friend, Pamela's funeral or in the same breath saying she doesn't ever want to learn anything. I mean, there is a lot going on with Elspeth and I think that the callousness, those beats just hit home and they feel believable. I mean, maybe me reiterating the script. It doesn't sound like it sounds maybe drummed up, but no, in the moment you're like, I believe Elspeth 100%. And that was a crazy thing for her to just say. So I thought that was interesting. I guess another thing that is different or I'm, I'm trying to wrap my mind around is sometimes the class resentment that crops up here feels a lot more in the U S like someone. Is actively exploiting the lower class, and it feels like an action being taken, they're doing, like, they're treating people poorly, and they're running a business that they know they're profiting the most off of in a way that is It's really morally icky, but I think, I don't know. I'm wondering if in Britain, it just seems like the sort of inevitability that they all live in this manner. And that's just their life. And I didn't see the parents working

James: 13:11

Oh no, it's inherited. No!

Audra: 13:13

No. So I was like, wait, yeah, that's really, to me, that feels, that felt different. I was like, normally we have, if we're talking about a mega wealthy family, if we're talking traditional, we're talking like the dad has a suit and tie on and he's going to the office and he's flying to Tokyo for business meetings and then to Europe and then back and, and that's more like what we're talking about this. I was like, they're all just sitting around.

James: 13:37

Watching Superbad. Which

Audra: 13:40

Yeah. Yes, exactly.

Elisa: 13:43

I

James: 13:43

love that they're just watching trashy comedy. You know, well not trashy, but just watching any old stuff on the telly. They're not watching Art House documentaries about like period paintings.

Audra: 13:52

no,

Lily: 13:53

that felt completely plausible to me. I loved, I loved

Elisa: 13:56

yeah, I feel like the depiction of class here was very much, old money. And I think that what you're kind of describing of American wealth feels more of the new money kind of aesthetics, where it's kind of beating you over the head with the wealth and making sure everyone knows that you're rich. So, you wear it externally a lot. And while I feel like... The, old legacy families in Europe don't have to prove in that way. So they have this huge manner, but they're like wearing casual clothes and it's just so the background of my life and I'm so used to it. I don't even notice it and that really the in group out group stuff are these like little rules that you would never know unless you were part of it. Like, Oh, we're super casual, but we do dress up for dinner. And you better, you wouldn't know unless you were part of that group while like with the over the top wealth in front of you, you're like, Oh, I just need to have a brand name on and I'm in and the, those like sneaky rules, I think are a lot more about like the class aspects of like, you can't buy class, you, you don't know unless you just part of it. Like this osmosis kind of thing.

James: 15:16

Absolutely. You can't buy your way into the upper class. You know, you, you have to be born, born into it really, or marry into it perhaps.

Lily: 15:23

Yeah, the money is actually not a direct coordinate at all with it. Which I thought was, I felt like that was the one element, well not the one, there are a few elements, but I think one thing that seems to me to be a An interesting element of the upper class is often, these are people without a lot of money, but they have, there are big houses and they, and because it's such a closed world, there's a lot of favors being done all the time. They know a lot of people with Other fabulous places they can stay in the summer and they're able to maintain this fabulous lifestyle despite not having actual any cash And also not and they're not wanting to work, you know

Elisa: 16:01

Yes.

Lily: 16:02

But I think that's probably a different film altogether. I guess

Elisa: 16:05

No, but I completely agree. I was like, I don't think these people are very liquid. Everything is tied up in this real estate. And it's exactly what you're saying of, we're, we'll just, yeah, I'll just go to your house, you'll go to mine. We never have to exchange anything, really, monetarily. That, it was probably great great grandfather that built the wealth, had all these, big homes built or whatever, and you're just benefiting from it, but you're not. working to preserve it in the same way.

Audra: 16:35

Cause even in the U. S. there's this idea, even with old money of, well, surely like you'll take over your father's company. Or there's this sort of like, ew, he's a trust fund kid. He doesn't even work. There's like, there is even, I feel with those families that have had generations and generations of this like massive amount of wealth, there is this. It's sort of expectation that you work for it or like you pretend you work for it. This felt like all bets were off and they were just chilling in the summer playing tennis in their tuxedos. And that's how it is.

James: 17:08

yeah, and I think the film really plays into the fact that essentially they live in this bubble, which is a privileged bubble, and, but it's evolving. The fact that now a lot of these estates don't have much wealth. I mean, I did work on a documentary once where we were filming at a stately home and they didn't have much, much cash But you do have a privileged lifestyle, so I think that explains why the characters do just seem to have a response to the lack of emotion or empathy that we expect them to have, because their entire set of priorities are completely shifted from what any of us would have in our lives.

Lily: 17:39

so what do you guys think the film is trying to say about class?

Audra: 17:44

What I was taking away, whether this is what it was trying to take away, or trying to have me take away or not, is that the British upper class is so unattainable that it becomes this, like, it becomes this fetish, like this thing that you want so badly that you can't have, that it becomes a point of obsession. And in that way, I feel like they kind of merged Some of A, Oliver's actual attraction and sexual attraction, and then B, his just sexual manipulation. I feel like they merged that with his feelings toward the, like, upper class in general.

Elisa: 18:26

I think it was very much the idea of you can't buy your way in, and your proximity to power is, you're still some, somewhat ornamental. I think Oliver doesn't fully understand that, for a while in the film, that he thinks, Well now we're brothers, we're best friends, like, I can share an opinion, or, I matter here, I'm part of the family. And, I forget his name, the other friend that's like,

Audra: 18:53

Barley.

Elisa: 18:54

Farley, yeah, is like, kind of looking at him like, Know your place. You're absolutely a guest and you can be dropped at any moment. Like, don't bite the hand that feeds you., you're here as a, as a prop and a, like, a guilt that They feel for like, Oh, we'd have to have our token poor friend come for the summer, but that doesn't

James: 19:18

to the previous one or something like that.

Elisa: 19:20

exactly and that the second that, you know, he is kind of a more three dimensional person, there's like distance in their friendship. It's like, okay, well, you know, maybe, maybe this isn't working out. And those, references to the last one or last year's one seems to have had a similar course where it's like, all right, well, then he seemed to participate a little too much. So we're not going to be friends with him anymore. Yeah. Although

Audra: 19:48

Yeah. But it totally, it totally seemed like you

Elisa: 19:51

poser.

Audra: 19:52

have to murder a whole family if you want to have social mobility. Like that's the degree to which you like, you, you have to want it because otherwise it's not happening.

James: 20:02

to really want it.

Audra: 20:03

Yeah.

Elisa: 20:04

You can murder them all, and you can steal, but it won't make you one of them. There's no way. There's just no access point.

James: 20:12

I was thinking what is it trying to say about class? And, and I haven't quite figured that out yet. I'm still in flux, but I, I certainly think it makes a, an argument that, that both being. From, like, a middle class or a working class to be an upper class. There's... I don't know. Oliver's attempt to ascend to the upper class seems utterly without point. I think it's just money based. I don't know. Because he's not, he's not trying to change class, is he? He's trying to chase the money? Is that right?

Lily: 20:43

Well, okay, I think that's interesting, right? Because it seems to from the beginning with the film opens with these kind of homoerotic shots of Jacob Elodie looking amazing. And I feel like with that, it's really playing on this, this desire that Oliver has for him. Um, and That seems initially to be what the film is about, right? I read an interview, Emma Fennell said she was really interested in the Kind of crossover between desire and disgust and you see that in the film, right? There are all these like shocking very visceral Moments often like sexual moments are also so gross and that everyone in the cinema was a horrified

Audra: 21:27

Mm

Lily: 21:27

Moments and I think so it seems initially for the And until the final third that that's what the film is about is about his desire for Oliver being tied up in his desire to be part of this world that he's on the outside of and looking at. But then you're right, James, like then when the actual kind of thrillery stuff all kind of ratchets up and it's all everything. Unravels and we find out the twist that he'd planned everything all along. It does seem like it was just about getting hold of Saltburn as a place and becoming, but I guess, but I guess that's more about the, perhaps the like status of the place because there's no, well, I mean, of course there is money in that place. I mean, he'd make a killing if he sold it, but you know, it's like, I feel like it's about just being in that world, but he's so isolated. He ends up isolated. It's.

James: 22:17

the film obviously the twists are revealed that Oliver's not who he's meant to be and there's a, there's a key moment where, where, um, where Felix takes him on a, on a road trip, surprise, surprise, and it turns out he's taking him to his family home. Now, At what point did you realize something was up? Because to me, as soon as he's getting close to that village, it's like, This is middle class. This is not a working class environment. And then, as soon as you pull up the estate, as, you know, It might, was that twist working for you at all, or did that not read? I was, I was curious when I was watching it to think, What, if, if that, if that made you realize, Oh shit, he's been lying at that point.

Elisa: 22:50

I totally caught on quickly. I feel like that he was taking him to his family home. I, and it felt very believable that that character would not think about real repercussions. Was just like, but you know, it's your family. Let's go. You're like, I'm your friend. I'm going to take you. And all of that. I didn't even clock that as a twist. I was like, oh, this is just a, a slow unraveling of the next scene. But it didn't feel twisty to me.

Audra: 23:21

I clocked it as a huge twist. Like, even when When Felix was driving Oliver through the neighborhood, I was like, I wonder when we're going to get to the neighborhood where Oliver lives. Like, at no point was I was like, this nice ass neighborhood is where Oliver lives. I was still waiting. And then, yeah, I'm like, okay, and? Like, next street, huh? Next street? And even when they get out of the car, and Felix is walking over the threshold of the front door after Oliver's mom answers, Felix is holding the gone fishing sign and he has this sort of knowing smile and kind of closes his eyes and nods his head as if like classic poor people thing and then walks into the house. So I'm still like, I'm still with Felix. Like I'm still believing it until the mom says, Oh, your dad's in the garden. And then I was like. Oh, something's amiss, because we've been told that his dad is dead. So then we find out his dad's alive. We find out that he has sisters he's never talked about when he's previously said he's an only child. He claimed that both of his parents were drug addicts, and the only way to describe them in this scene is... It's not strung out and like very

James: 24:28

mean, they're the,

Audra: 24:29

So

James: 24:30

they're the most middle class family. I mean, this is the thing, as soon as they pull into that, for me, like, growing up in the UK, it's like, immediately, like, oh my god, this is like a middle class neighbourhood. This is, so that I was immediately, everything unravels. And my, it's interesting to say that, Audra, my reading of him picking up that sign and looking, I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but I had a different reading. I thought, oh, he's realised he's being played, because for that character, the upper class character of a Felix, Immediately, he knows that's the middle class. He knows that as soon as he sees the house, let alone meet the parents. So I thought he played that out like gone fishing. That's what Oliver's done. He's gone fishing and he got a bite and Felix was the bite. You know, that was my read on it. But, but please leave a

Elisa: 25:11

Oh, Clever. Clever.

Lily: 25:13

I don't, I felt like when he saw the house, he was like, Oh, she's cleaned up his act. I think he thought, Oh, it's a nice house for, for you. But I could still believe that this is working class. I, for me, it was the minute he saw, yeah, that, that the sign was like, well, that doesn't seem to track with someone who's got their life together, a little sign like that. And then the parents opening the door. But I mean, none of it was a surprise to me. Were you guys,

Elisa: 25:39

I wasn't, I wasn't surprised at all. I feel like it made total sense because it's way less of a sexy story to be middle class than it is, Oh, I was working class and my mom is a drug addict and all this, like, that is, I think, Oliver sees that as, like, pure rich person guilt fodder. Like, oh, I'm totally gonna loop this guy in because he's gonna feel so bad for me, but being fine is just not interesting.

Audra: 26:11

no, I think in retrospect, I 100 percent agree. I'm like, oh, I get it. Well, I sort of get why he lied. I don't totally get why he felt the need to, because I'm like, you're actually just fine. Like that's. A really nice life you started with, if you're coming from a lower class, maybe there's more of a class indictment in the movie, but this just felt like, I don't know, killing for what sake that said, I do agree. It is a sexier story to kind of lie, but no, I, I believed him. I believed him wholesale. I was shocked to my core. I was very confused. I also think part of the problem was a friend before I went told me that this is plotless movie, which is not true. And I don't know what they confused this with. Like every twist and turn, I was

Elisa: 26:59

There's a lot of

Lily: 27:00

I'd say.

Audra: 27:01

There's, there's some might say too much plot. And so I was expecting just vignettes and more and more vignettes and more of their relationship this whole time. And so. No, I was taken

James: 27:11

there was another little layer to when he gets taken to see his real parents, is that not only are they middle class, but they have a very clearly English accents, middle class English accents, and Oliver, Oliver has a, still has his Irish tang because Barry Keown is an Irish actor. And Oliver still has that, which, which is clearly a deliberate choice. Cause then that in my mind was like, so not only is he middle class, but his parents appeared to be British in a way that he's Irish now, obviously the whole family could have moved to Ireland when he was younger and he picked up the accent. But, but that to me is another layer of who the hell is Oliver? Like, you know, what, what is it was.

Lily: 27:51

really? I thought that was just him not being able to do a good accent, which I, which he's a very good actor. So

James: 27:57

it, it, could, it could

Lily: 27:59

make sense and it's not difficult to do an English accent.

James: 28:01

He's done an English accent in Dunkirk. That's all I will say. So

Lily: 28:04

Though I thought, were they, are they not Northern,

James: 28:06

they are northern, but it's not like Irish.

Lily: 28:09

I thought he was trying to do a northern accent and just kept accidentally slipping

James: 28:13

maybe, maybe it could, it could, I could be overthinking

Lily: 28:16

Mate, I don't know.

Audra: 28:17

Speaking of these accents, though, that's something I totally couldn't pick up on. And I'm curious, how did... Because I believe Jacob Elordi is Australian. So how did he do with the... Yeah,

James: 28:30

Like, sounded like

Lily: 28:30

He had the best accent.

Audra: 28:32

so.

James: 28:34

Like that

Lily: 28:34

I, I was like amazed because I didn't know he was Australian. I knew he's obviously going to be, he's in Priscilla, which hasn't come out over here yet, but I'm very excited to see that. And so I'd heard his accent. So I was like, is he American or is he British? I just kept being like, he must be British. It's

James: 28:51

But then he does an incredible... What sounds to me like an excellent American accent when he's in, uh, Euphoria. You know, it sounds completely convincing.

Elisa: 28:58

In Euphoria, I totally

James: 29:01

Right, right, so very good accents we're discovering here, Jacob Elody.

Elisa: 29:05

Yes. But I was gonna, yeah, I was gonna say that I feel like the, um, what you were saying earlier, Audra, why are you doing all this? I think it makes more sense him coming from a middle class upbringing because I think it speaks more to the power of class instead of money, That element of wanting to, go up in the ranks of class, that a lot of times at, especially at like upper, upper class levels, the differences are so marginal. Like, I don't think rich people are looking at poor people, they're looking at other rich people, like, but I'm richer than you, I'm more powerful than you, the difference between my, kind of family and your kind of family and it's all between like really similar people And so I think that added more believability to me than if it was just like this guy from the streets who's like I'm gonna like Who'd a wink my way into this whole wealth? It's like no I'm I'm close enough and I just don't have these certain elements and I'm competing about this like minutiae,

Lily: 30:12

It's funny. You should say that because I, I think you're totally, totally right. The reason I was so excited about this film was that Emeril Fennell's directing it. And I knew, and she went to Oxford. She went to a boarding school in the UK. That's like for the elite, Kate Middleton went there. And so I knew she was in this world that she was seemingly going to be satirizing or, portraying. So I thought she'll, she'll have a very interesting angle from being on the inside. But then, I listened to an interview with her where she talked about, she was quite clear to say like, Oh, well, I'm not the, the Catons that I rep, that are represented in the film that kind of landed gentry. aristocracy background. That's not my background. Her father was a jeweler, like a high end jeweler. He was apparently known as the king of bling in the tabloids. So she's, so she was kind of saying I felt like a bit of an outsider. My, my family aren't that level. We are in the like class system. There's like There is, within them, the upper class, she would consider herself a slightly, an outsider or lower, to the, and, and I thought it was fascinating that she, she wanted to very much, To make that distinction right, which, which should actually add, I feel like, okay, that, that isn't, that is an interesting thing to feel in yourself. And that would be, that's an interesting thing to bring to this film. But interestingly, I don't feel like, the film I think is actually, it, the, it's portrayal of the upper class. they're nice, ostensibly, but then say these quite callous things and are unkind and possibly not good people underneath, but they're not monsters. They don't deserve to be killed, right? Whereas the monster in the film is the middle class guy who comes in and tries to and succeeds in taking everything. I feel like What should have been, actually, from Emerald Fennell's perspective, quite an interesting, take on this world. I feel like, ultimately, she, she loves the world that she's in. I feel that. I feel like, you know, it's ultimately a favorable portrayal of the upper class.

Audra: 32:21

and I even feel like In her first film, Promising Young Woman, there's, yes, a degree to which our protagonist, Cassie, is similarly revenge driven and, not someone that you can full throatedly or whole throatedly root for. But you do get to see throughout the movie distinct points where the college could have done better, that dean could have done better, where the onlookers at a party could have stepped in. They, they, They could have done better. The women who heard Nina's story of being raped, they could have believed her. They could have done better. The men at the bar who fancy themselves nice guys and then take home drunk girls and take advantage of them, they could do better. We're seeing these moments where the people in power are perpetuating this problematic structure and doing bad things alongside Cassie being kind of hard to root for sometimes. In this, yes, like you're saying, we see. The rich family being really callous and really off putting and ignorant and all sorts of cringy things. But there's no point at which I'm seeing kind of like structural ways that things could have been done better I just don't know really what we're indicting besides just making fun of these silly ignorant rich people at the same time that the protagonist is so much more loathsome.

Elisa: 33:42

I had a question, actually, that I wanted to ask about the class dynamics. Is therE, because thinking about the American perspective, is there a version of the American dream in the UK? Cause that's something that we're really pushed, that's really pushed on us, is this like, ultimate capitalism and that really you can start from anywhere and America's the land of opportunity and you can build wealth and create a legacy for your family if you just work hard enough. Is there a narrative that's similar to that, that's kind of told to you as you're growing up in the UK? Mm

James: 34:21

not really, or at least it wasn't part of my childhood, really. That feeling of, you work hard. You can get any anywhere. I mean, times might've changed, but, but certainly just from my upbringing.

Lily: 34:32

Think it's part of the national or the British identity. Like I don't think, it's so drummed into us that, The class you were born into is the class you'll always stay in and even if you make money, it's like, and it's also, I think, a point of pride. The way our system, our class system is, you can't really fake it. There are all these like invisible tells that. mean it's slightly impossible, but there is, it's, there's always this like move towards like infiltration, I think. The like kind of upper class or whatever. It's such a small group that it wouldn't remain if there wasn't constant infiltration from people with wealth, trying to maintain it. Like the new money comes in and keeps things going, There's this weird thing that is so ingrained in us, that like, this is the class you are. Even if you make loads of money, you're still, you're still, middle class, if that's what you're born into. And vice versa, like the Africa, like what I said before about, you know, the upper class often not having much money, it, but it's, it's a weird and like very, I think toxic thing.

Elisa: 35:37

mm hmm,

Lily: 35:38

And it's something I even see in like dating, like class is often something that will come up on a day, like what class you are. Oh, you seem like you might be this class. And it's like the most, yes, it's the strangest.

Elisa: 35:51

That's so, like,

Lily: 35:52

It's so, yes, and it weighs, it's embarrassing. It's like, I think the least attractive thing about being British actually, this preoccupation we have. But you know what I mean, James? Do you think that,

James: 36:04

Yeah, I'm trying to think have I ever been called upon my class during dating? I don't know, but you kind of very quickly make some like, I mean, I think my northern accent immediately plugs me into like The assumption that you work in class because I've got a northern accent.

Lily: 36:18

I think that's part of perhaps why in it, Oliver, Barry Keoghan's character is Northern, perhaps, is that like, if you, if you're a Southern, English person, I think, and, and of that kind of elite, I think there is often an assumption, yeah, that anything Northern or not, or not RP sounding, not received pronunciation, but pronunciation sounding is just working class. So that, so he could pretend to be very, from a very, very impoverished background and hard up because, because that would scan for Felix, wouldn't, wouldn't be able to, to him that makes perfect sense just because he's got a Northern accent.

Elisa: 36:57

Yeah, I think in the I think the U. S., because it probably because it's a younger country, is far more preoccupied with wealth than class. That I think people care more about. How much money you're bringing to the table at the end of the day and so there does feel if you can build wealth, then you will access certain spaces and there are fewer kind of legacy names like the Carnegie's and the Kennedy's and families that have a longer legacy, but even so it's, you know, a couple hundred years instead of this thousands and these castles or whatever. And, and so I think here it feels more, the promise feels more alive, that if you just make money, you will be, you'll be fine, I think it's so interesting to talk about this because I do think that, like, class occupies, like, a different area of my mind, like, it doesn't have that much to do with money, and, like, we were talking at the beginning of this, like, I don't know how much money this family even has, they might just have this beautiful castle.

Audra: 38:08

in the US there's any way by accent to really distinguish where someone sits. Like that, that, I mean, there's definitely a lot of language attitudes. If in a movie we wanted to code someone as sophisticated. Because we have mommy issues, we give them a British accent, and then if we want to, but like, I wouldn't know what kind of British, and none of us would know, like, we could give them the working class accent, and we would still code that as sophisticated, and then if we wanted to make someone sound stupid, because we're, I don't know. I guess still elitist to a certain degree and also misogynist, we would either give them a valley girl accent because that makes them sound ditzy and, and, vapid, or we would give them a southern accent to make them sound like a hick from who knows where. That's sort of like the way our language attitudes show up, but I really think that beyond that, it's, there's no way for us to tell where you fall, wealth or class wise, by how you talk.

Elisa: 39:05

Yeah, I think it's much more aesthetic because even a southern accent, there's some wealthy people in the south.

Audra: 39:12

Well, yeah, they had slaves. Yeah, they made money.

Elisa: 39:15

um, make a

James: 39:17

you get, you guys, I guess you guys don't really have received pronunciation because of course, if you are, um, upper class in the UK, then you are kind of from birth, you are given, or there's the idea of elocution and that you speak the Queen's English, which is what received pronunciation is. So that's a very strong coding for your class system is how well you adhere to, uh, this kind of, uh, this received pronunciation.

Lily: 39:39

So there's a lot that's comparable to The Hands of Mr. Ripley, right? It's a, it's a similarly, a thriller in which someone Not only infiltrates a class, but then ultimately like kills off the people that they've, that they've become ingratiated with in order to maintain this lifestyle. And that, yeah, and that was one of the things that struck me when it turned to Mr. Ripley is that his way in initially is that he borrows a Princeton jacket. And then because of that, it's assumed that he went to Princeton and then he falls in with this crowd. So he could get away with that, even though that wasn't the world he was from at all. Um, because there aren't those obvious signs, whereas in Saltburn, he, he couldn't have gotten away with that. There wouldn't be this assumption that he was of this world if he was just wearing a jacket because of, yeah, class, I guess, and clothes. And so instead he goes the other

Elisa: 40:30

It doesn't matter that you're at the same school

Lily: 40:33

Yeah, exactly. That's not

Elisa: 40:34

same education. It doesn't make us the same.

Lily: 40:37

Right, so he, so he goes the other way and instead tries to, to, he pretends to be of a lower class. He like emphasizes that way because it's like, oh, okay, if I can't, if I can't fake it by being one of them, I'll like really emphasize this like slightly glamor, glamorized, story that might seem interesting to them as like an exotic oddity, right?

Audra: 41:00

Right.

James: 41:01

it's a novelty value, isn't it? It's a load of life experience that they don't have because of their closeted, comfortable lifestyle.

Lily: 41:08

Yeah.

Elisa: 41:08

How did you guys feel with both films, with Townsend, Mr. Ripley, and Saul Byrne, the, homosexual element of it? I was like, when will the gays know peace? What is this? Like, what is going on? Like, why were they both, like, I felt kind of strange about the, like, almost weaponizing their sexuality

Audra: 41:29

I felt that the talented Mr. Ripley was much more graceful about it. I felt like Tom's homosexuality seemed earnest and like, some but not all of his mistakes stem from genuine heartbreak. Whereas in Saltburn, I just feel like they are entangling, too much for my comfort, any amount of queerness or homosexuality with Really bad intentions. Or this, like, weird obsession fetish, like, this psychopathic fetishization of this person, whether for his body, personality, wealth, whatever it is, it just felt too entangled with his, like, perverse violence for me to be like, wait, wait, let's not pair those two together too closely.

James: 42:20

I hadn't considered that take on it, actually, Audra. I just took it that this is a man who will use every... Technique that he has available to him, where you're quite right, and tell him, Mr. Ripley, this Tom is clearly a man struggling with his sexuality and is a homosexual man, but whereas in Saltburn, that, I don't think that's the case at all, and it's not even presented like that, it just seems to be somebody who's, who's using every technique to manipulate

Audra: 42:43

even in the privacy of, like, an empty bathroom he's drinking cum filled bath water, or like, he's fucking a gravesite by himself, like that, who is that for?

James: 42:55

Yeah, yeah, fair enough, fair enough, yeah, yeah, you're quite

Lily: 42:58

presents it as him wanting him. Like, we, we, we are showing, we see everything from Barry's perspective, pretty much. Barry, Oliver, Barry Keoghan's character, Oliver. We see everything from Oliver's perspective and he, he definitely wants him. And so you're right, he does, he's sort of, he does weaponize his sexuality because he, he uses, he, which to me seemed very odd and implausible. I have to say him like coming on to everyone. Like I kind of was like, I don't know. I,

James: 43:29

you know, you know, I have to say just listen. Sorry to interrupt you but I've just realized I stepped out to just have a little break at the cinema and I've realized it was when Jacob Elordi was having a bath and I clearly missed that sequence and now that explains a lot I didn't miss the bit where he's having sex with the grave But I did see that and I didn't quite look but but that bit Wow. Okay. I definitely missed a key bit.

Elisa: 43:50

How did the audience react to those scenes in your theaters?

Lily: 43:54

It was fascinating because the bit where he is seducing, Venetia played by Alison Oliver and, and she's on her period, everyone was, I heard someone say, that's disgusting the horror in the audience was like, I found slightly offensive actually. And, And, then they seem to, and I mean, everyone was horrified by him. Yeah. grinding against the grave as well, but slightly, but definitely that, that, that particular scene, the period scene was the one that the, my, my audience was not coping well with. How, what about for you?

Audra: 44:28

we saw together and our audience didn't cope well with, um, I, I felt like it was the bath scene and the grave scene, maybe more than seducing Venetia, although that one viscerally for me, I feel like because he had just basically called her out for having an eating disorder and was like, Now you're going to do what I say. And also starts hooking up with her. And she's like, no, no, it's not the right time of month. And he like forces it anyway. I was like, this is such a manipulative person who is making her more vulnerable than she already is by outing her for having an eating disorder, demanding that she obey him. And then after she says no finger fucking her anyway, I was like, what is happening? I, so that is why I was like. viscerally taken aback by that scene, but we did have some, we had quite a bit of gasps in our audience there too.

Elisa: 45:24

I noticed was people laughing a lot more than

James: 45:28

Oh, I, yeah, we, I, I noticed the laughing a lot,

Elisa: 45:30

there were all the times that people laughed. I was like, am I missing something? This is really sad. Like, I didn't find it funny. I know that there's supposed to be like dark comedic elements to the film and I found it much more in. Like, Rosamund Pike, her character, like, the parents, I found to be the most, comedic element of just how, like,

Audra: 45:51

Hmm.

Elisa: 45:52

out of it they are. But the, the bathwater scene and the grave, our audience was all laughing, and I didn't have, like, a humorous reaction to it. So I was curious if it was, like, a grotesque reaction from folks in your theater, if they were laughing, or if people, I, I found it, like, really sad.

James: 46:12

The scenes which, like I said with Rosamund Pike, the scenes which seemed to be clearly more comedic were getting laughs, but the other bits were kind of

Lily: 46:19

I, I, yeah, I think there was some laughs in those more gross out, I guess, scenes as well from my audience, I think. But, but just to bring it back to this, to the kind of the queer element of it. Yeah, I feel like what I think is so well done in terms of Mr. Ripley is that I feel like it's quite, there's a subtle, uh, Negotiation going on for, Tom Ripley of him. It's like set in 1950, right? And I feel like a lot of it is about him struggling with being closeted, having to be closeted, and then, and that kind of mixing with desiring, uh, Jude Law's character, and um, But also want it like desiring him but also desiring his life and his world and that kind of those those two things are being closeted And who you are and and wanting someone who's so free like all of that is going on and then the extreme that that goes to it's like it's not all Figured he's not he clearly doesn't plan any of it, but he also doesn't stop any of it He like he's he's both ruthless, but also doesn't, very lost and, and, and sad and doesn't, doesn't really, I think, know who, who he is. That's his whole thing, right? Well, he's, he's a great mimic. He's lost in who he actually is because he can't, he's not allowed to be himself. So then every, this moment of extremists like feels like it's been earned in a way because we've kind of led to that point whereas in this to me it was all very predictable because right from the get go Oliver says to basically to camera like he makes it known that he's an unreliable narrator so you know you can't trust him and everything is going to be there's going to be twists along the way. So I was almost disappointed that it wasn't more twisted because it was exactly what I thought, but it was like, it's unsatisfying then because yeah, the, the queerness is just a weapon to like, to get him, for him to get to where he wants to go. There doesn't seem to be anything, any more depth or complexity to it, which is, does feel both problematic and unsatisfying

Elisa: 48:23

yeah I think with, with, Talented Mr. Ribbly, I felt more Um, I wasn't necessarily rooting for him, but I felt more like, oh no, like I felt bad for him, like, oh God, he's going to get stressed out again because he's caught in a

James: 48:38

Not again,

Elisa: 48:39

he's going to kill someone. God damn it, Tom. And there was, there was, it was like vicious acts that didn't feel, Like they were coming from a vicious place. It felt like they was coming from an anxious place while all over the fact that it was all calculated, which didn't feel particularly earned to me. It felt a little like gimmicky, like, ha ha. This whole time I was plotting everything that just happened. And I liked that in Mr. Ripley, it was more like, this is just unfolding and he's, he's caught in this line, he doesn't know how to get out of it. And. So the actions feel more believable, but murdering everyone and then like wanting to, I don't know.

James: 49:21

my reading of the whole film, actually, and it's to touch back to something you said in the start order about the, the actions and things not being quite believable, the motivations, and for me, my overall take from it was this was like a bit of a, uh, like a fairy story, essentially, more like a fantasy of Eat the Rich, So motivations aren't realistic. I, I'm not reading the film as a real commentary, no, like, it's, it's all a heightened thing. A little bit like Promising Young Woman was, it kind of set the story in a very heightened world. It kind of had a rom com, neon look to it. And this is, it feels like an evolution of that. It's like she's taken kind of the things that she's done with The Promising Woman and just trying them out on a different form. So I didn't take the film as I was meant to be wrapped up in the reality of it, but I enjoyed the, the exaggeratedness and I think the visuals, uh, the, the kind of stylized visuals put me in that world a little bit more.

Lily: 50:14

But it was so implausible though,

Audra: 50:16

it was so implausible

Lily: 50:18

idea, like, it's just, it just felt like such a cop out at the end. Oh, he planned for the, I'm sorry, if you're, if you're, if you get a dead tire on your bike, you would just like walk the rest of the way. It wouldn't like, you couldn't predict that this guy would be so amazingly lazy that he'd just sit about going, Oh God, what do I do now? Like, so even, even if it's like, and the problem

James: 50:38

He could be going around doing multiple things every day and that was the first one that worked for him.

Lily: 50:43

Maybe, but then show us that, like, do something to show us that, but it, but the, but the thing is, is that with Promising Young Woman, yes, it's heightened, but there is this, like, absolutely, I think, true thing that, that film is exploring like the treatment of women and these, like the grares are played upon and there's something very true that the film explores, whereas in this, like, I don't feel like there was enough characterization of what was wrong with the rich for it to be justified for Oliver to kill them off so all that we end up doing, I think, as a viewer, is thinking, Oh, I'd love to be in that class. I'd love to live in that house. Like, I want to be that, it's, like, it's not like they deserve, you know what I mean?

Elisa: 51:24

yeah,

Audra: 51:26

because they like luxuriate in it so much, you can tell Emerald Fennel is having fun there and is like also susceptible to thinking, this is so beautiful, this is so cool, wouldn't it be cool to have this more than like, let's completely indict it. The people who are a part of this system, especially because she apparently is trying to even distance herself from that. I just, if she, if she went to Marlborough and she went to Oxford and her dad was the king of bling and all of these things, I, I just don't believe that this is, like, If that is true and she still doesn't see herself as a part of the upper class, I'm not sure. Maybe she's fully tapping into everything that's wrong with wealth inequality.

Elisa: 52:14

I don't think this film was about eat the rich in the way that we think about like revolutions. I think it was more about the feeling of hating the rich because we want to be the rich, not like I'm part of an exploited class. Screw you, we've taken enough. I'm, you know, seizing the means of production. Like, it didn't feel like a, propaganda film about, class revolution. It was more about, like, to me it felt more like we're commenting on the proximal power of I hate you because you have something I want. And that, like, I think you said earlier, Lily, of like that kind of line between love and disgust and, like, hatred and that, all of those big emotions. You care. You care so much and that's why you have these feelings. You're not indifferent. You're like, I, I resent you and I want this. And I think that's like an interesting thing to explore. So I wasn't like putting this film in like a eat the rich category but more just obsession and, and desire for like the next little inch.

Audra: 53:20

I think I just liked that in promising young woman, She does a better job highlighting where the people in power could be doing better. And like we just don't really see that here. And I think that I was like darn. I I would have loved to see

Elisa: 53:33

Yeah, but I just don't think that's what the movie was about. It wasn't about, like, the rich don't do enough for us.

James: 53:39

that was more the setting, wasn't it? It was more a dramatic setting rather than it being a being directly what the film's about, perhaps?

Lily: 53:45

So for me, the most interesting. Relationship in the film was between Oliver and, Farley. So Farley is the, is the cousin of, Felix. And he's mixed race and American. And so he himself is also like in an infiltrator in a sense, you know, and he clearly feels himself to be an outsider and he sees. He sees the threat of Oliver as someone else trying to take up a position. But it also doesn't really take him that seriously, right? And, and I thought that that bit was where it got a little bit more parasite y, right? It's like the two, the competing outsiders knowing that there's not place for both of them or feeling like that. And rather than bandying together, they're very much opposed to each other. and I, felt like I wanted a bit more of that really. I'd have loved to have seen more of. Then, like, I almost feel like we could have done without the stuff with the sister because that did just seem too Too extreme really and like I wasn't invested in Venetia at all Farley was an interesting character But I also feel like the film didn't quite know what to do with With race as an issue that they touch on for a second and then don't really, I don't know what you guys thought of that

Audra: 55:01

I was gonna ask you guys, I I I was going to ask, does this scene feel like it deals with race? Cause I didn't really know almost what they were trying to get at. I had seen Farley making eye contact with the black servers at Saltburn. And then a few scenes later, basically saying he knew them better than Felix clearly did, because at least Farley knew their names. And then they got into this, I don't know, 10 second tiff about, Oh, don't make this about race. And then it was over and we never revisit it. So I, I didn't even know what to make of it, honestly.

Elisa: 55:34

hmm.

Lily: 55:35

to me, felt quite plausible, honestly, because I feel like that is often how race is dealt with I feel like often, white privileged British people will just avoid talking about it or will say, don't make this about race and not want to have the conversation at all. But then the film itself didn't really go there either. So I don't know. I didn't really know what to make of it, honestly.

Elisa: 55:57

It's also in 2007 where, I mean, I, I was not privy to conversations about race in 2007. I mean, I was in lower school anyway, so, but I feel like the, the kind of cultural narrative of talking, it being a thing that we discuss is more of a recent phenomenon. I feel like. I, I didn't, I wasn't hearing people, it was more of like a, like you don't talk about money, you don't talk about race, you don't talk about politics and religion, like all these things, like why would you do that? And now we're, we're more open with that, so maybe there's also an element of just time, like period peace

Audra: 56:36

speaking of it being set in 2007, I, I could have sworn when Oliver arrived at Oxford, the banner behind him said, welcome class of 2006.

Lily: 56:45

Yes. But then a year, it's the, they then go in the. The, the, it's the following summer that they spend

Audra: 56:50

thought, okay, I don't know, maybe I'm, maybe I, I don't know how that works in the UK, cause in, like, I was the class of 2018, which meant I arrived in the fall of 2014. So when I saw Welcome Class of 06, I was like, okay, got it. So we're in 2002, but then they're playing the songs like Low by Flo Rida and wearing Livestrong bracelets. And I'm like, wait, was that out in 2002?

Lily: 57:16

okay. So I think, I think the, the reality is that signs like that do not exist in the UK, definitely an Oxford kind of place. So I think they were just trying to let everyone know it was 2006. So then we'd all know that the summer they spent together would be 2007, but actually that's not something I picked up on because. Such, because those signs don't, but you're right, it should have of course been like 2000 and 2009, but we don't, those signs are never a thing anyway, so.

Audra: 57:45

Okay, good to know. I was like, wait, what's happening? But no, we, I mean, we plaster those signs all over the place. So it didn't seem out of place to me. I was just doing,

Lily: 57:55

were completely thrown.

Audra: 57:57

yeah.

Lily: 57:58

That was one of the things I enjoyed very much about the film. It was obviously so much fun to have a film set in like, the early 2000s, and then really like, I've seen so much criticism of the film, actually, for it being like, like, a Instagram bait kind of film and then really, like, unsubtly putting it in the music from 2006 and, like, leaning into that, which I, I feel like is slightly, reeks of, some sexism because, to me, she's just trying to make it a great film and, like, build this world set that, and, like, I, I really enjoyed that,

Audra: 58:31

Right. Why would that be a criticism anyway? Because by saying something is so it's tick tocky. It's Instagrammable. And, like, okay, so she chose, so she chose fashion and, like, music that we're all excited to dive back into.

Elisa: 58:45

She's trying to sell a movie, people.

James: 58:48

Right, exactly, exactly right. I mean TikTok's taking over, so you may as well try and work a bit of that into your film if it gets people to enjoy it.

Lily: 58:55

And like all, a well made film will look good on TikTok or Instagram. That's like, that's just, that's, just making a something that looks good. Like, isn't that the

Audra: 59:04

yeah. It's not like it only works on TikTok

Elisa: 59:08

One part that I Wanted to see what you guys thought about that. I really liked was the tour of the house like the scene where Felix's

Lily: 59:20

Hmm.

Elisa: 59:20

him around and like we're going so quickly and we're it's so tight and it's just like you basically just see Felix walking around and Everything he points out is like things that are important to him. I'm like, oh, this is where I finger my cousin Not like look at the beautiful art.

James: 59:40

dismisses two Reubens, two crap Reubens, or something along those lines.

Elisa: 59:44

I thought that was such a good example of the class thing of like this is just the backdrop of my life and I'm just showing you my tour of the house is not going to be what you would care about and like Oliver's just looking around like oh my god this place is incredible and he's just rushing through

James: 1:00:02

Oh, I loved that scene,

Elisa: 1:00:03

yeah. and that then at the end we have like another walk through the house when with the music and he's naked and it's so much slower and like you get to see The house more. I thought that was really cool.

Audra: 1:00:16

With music, specifically, Murder on the Dance Floor.

Lily: 1:00:20

Yes, so good.

James: 1:00:22

It was a wonderfully done because with the initial sequence where it's Felix going through the rooms It's a continuously moving camera and he's rattling off all the different things. So it's very breakneck It's got a kinetic energy to it. But in the later scenes, we're now essentially Oliver Owns the place. It's now his. The camera's static and it is wider, so you can take it in more. It's almost as if he appreciates what he's got more than Felix

Elisa: 1:00:46

Yeah. He's like relishing in it.

Lily: 1:00:48

Can we just talk about the final scene? What did you guys make of Oliver dancing naked around the house.

Audra: 1:00:54

Frankly, if I had a mansion, I would do the same thing. Like, I, I thought that was hilarious, and, I guess he really does enjoy it more than the Catons ever did. I think What About That scene really, Made me feel uneasy was him having fished all of the rocks with their names on it out of the river and put it on top of that puppet mechanism, that like puppet apparatus. Because I knew that like Puppet had been a motif sort of throughout the film like Farley had earlier at Oxford. told Oliver you're getting closer to being a real boy. And I was like, real boy? Are we talking about Pinocchio? And then later, of course, Farley makes Oliver sing, that song, like about you pay my rent during the karaoke scene. And then it ends with Actually, Oliver's been the Puppet Master all along, but it just felt very, oh, it just felt so eerie and impossible to want to let him enjoy that moment

Elisa: 1:01:48

i, I kind of loved it. Just because I felt like if we were gonna get this sort of implausible back to the fantasy Idea of I planned it all along then it seemed fitting to end in this kind of campy

Audra: 1:02:03

Yeah.

Elisa: 1:02:05

I really liked it because of the comparison to the first time that we get a tour of the house and that it felt like slower and like we're milking it and look at all this beauty and it just felt like delicious and indulgent um, and the fact that he's naked and he's just like this is my house now and and it feels very commenting on that class thing of, that family would never do that. But he does because he's like, look at me and my big house. And that's like the difference he's still from a different world and I, you know, sucker for a great song at the end of a movie, you know?

Lily: 1:02:38

I mean, obsessed with that song. saw Sophia Spexner at Glastonbury last year. It was my highlight of the festival. So. And I, yeah, I love that ending. It is like, horrifying. Chilling and all, but also like, and yeah, I think there is something in the house feeling when they first, well, throughout the scenes with the family there, it feels both impressive, but also really oppressive, right? These, it's quite dark and it's, clearly an incredible building and home, but not like homely so I think that kind of the uncomfortableness mixed with the joy of seeing him dancing naked I was I was into

James: 1:03:19

But also there's like a note, the fact that the, the house is now empty. It's not full of life. Like it was with under, under its previous owners. And now it's just him alone in rocking around this house, which doesn't sound appealing at all.

Elisa: 1:03:32

Yeah, how much of Saltburn was attractive because it's a cool big house and how much was the allure of the family?

Lily: 1:03:40

Mmm. Yeah. Well, overall, would you, would you recommend, we don't really do stars, but let's do it, what would you give it out of five stars? Would you recommend people to go see it, guys?

Audra: 1:03:52

I guess I would give it, if we're doing out of five stars, I guess I would give it a three. I really felt like it was gripping. I really felt like I personally was surprised, even if I don't think the twists were plausible. I think it's pretty. I think the acting was really good. But I just think for it to continually be marketed as a, an indictment of class or a satire of class, I think is inaccurate. I don't know that it accomplishes what it's trying to do. And there were some moments that I just, I don't think worked.

Elisa: 1:04:25

would, I would certainly recommend it. I think I would also give it a three., I thoroughly enjoyed my viewing experience watching it.

Lily: 1:04:31

Yeah.

Audra: 1:04:31

Yeah.

Elisa: 1:04:33

and I, I do think that it's a satire on class. I just don't think it's an eat the rich kind of movie. I didn't watch the trailer. I haven't really been privy to a lot of the marketing cause I wanted to go in pretty blind. So I don't know if. The marketing is really pushing that if so, then it, that feels inaccurate in, you know, how promising young woman was very much like a fantasy of what if we just destroyed these evil men and this, um, didn't do that, but I do think it's a satire on class.

James: 1:05:08

I think it's a solid three out of five for me as well, and I would recommend, I think we've all appreciated that it looks great, and I think it's well worth taking a trip to the cinema for, because, you know, there's a lot of films where you could just see it on a laptop, you could see it at home, and maybe you're not going to miss out, but I think it's a beautiful looking film, if you are going to check it out, try and see it at the cinema, um, you know, see it on a big old screen,

Audra: 1:05:27

Especially when the, like, they, they do a lot with the score. Like, when the score cuts out during the grave scene, having to sit there with a huge audience and just all bear witness together. Oh my God.

James: 1:05:40

It's, it's excruciating, isn't it? Cause the, the mu, the music, to begin with, when the music plays over that graveyard scene, that gives you a distance from what's happening. And then that fades out and you've just got the rain sound and the atmosphere. You're like, oh my God, it's suck. Suddenly you are sucked into what's happening and it's like relentless.

Lily: 1:05:56

this is obviously an emerald fennel signature because she does the same thing in Promising Young Woman when, Carey Mulligan is being, I don't want to spoil it, but a terrifying moment in that film, which is also excruciating to watch. And my friend literally was like trying to cover my eyes to stop. And it goes on and on and on and just the same way. Right. It's like, she's very good at doing that making you really sit and like. Witness something that you really wish you didn't have to

James: 1:06:23

Yeah, I mean, I have to say throughout the film, the craft involved, the quality of the direction and there's like all the departments, the costume, the cinematography, the score, it's all like top tier even if it doesn't work and I think we've gone through the things that perhaps were a bit flawed or missing, I still think overall as a nice cinema experience, I, I, yeah, I rate

Lily: 1:06:42

I think emerald fennel is an amazing director I just think the plot needed to be worked out a little bit to like I want to I wish i'd been more surprised But it's an amazing looking film and i'm like excited to see

James: 1:06:55

How many stars, Lily? How many

Lily: 1:06:57

three three as well three as well Uh, yeah, it's definitely No, I'm so sorry. I think three is the right number. It's like so fun to watch and worth watching. I just, yeah, just, would have liked to, to have had something unexpected happen, like Oliver and Felix ending up together or something like that would have been a

Audra: 1:07:17

Uh, yes.

Lily: 1:07:20

Okay, cool. Well, shall we end with a trip to the film pharmacy?

Audra: 1:07:24

Absolutely.

Elisa: 1:07:29

I wanted to ask, how does one submit to the film pharmacy? Is there a

James: 1:07:35

Oh, great

Lily: 1:07:36

Alvarez, that, yeah, that is a very good question, thank you for answering that. You can submit two ways, you can send us an email, groovymoviespod at gmail. com, or you can DM us on Instagram,

James: 1:07:48

whIch is also groovymoviespod message us there or leave us a comment asking a question. We will pick it up.

Elisa: 1:07:53

Okay,

Lily: 1:07:53

Yes, but having said that, for this week, we're, we're the ones with the questions. We're submitting a question to Culture Colander, because we're recording this a few days after Thanksgiving, which I think as a Brit is a slightly like unknown entity, right? I feel like so much, so much of American culture. has been exported to the rest of the world. But for some reason, I guess they just think it's, this one is a bit too specific to America to make sense.

James: 1:08:24

If we want to get Thanksgiving and what it means to, to Americans, what might we watch?

Elisa: 1:08:29

was thinking about this because I don't know if I've ever seen a movie that I can think of that's about Thanksgiving which is so weird because there's so many movies about Christmas and Thanksgiving is just completely not it. I can't think of a film, but I would watch All of the Thanksgiving episodes of Friends. Is

Audra: 1:08:54

recommendation. okay, I was going to say, I have two. The first is more of a cheeky, kind of cynical, I guess, recommendation. But I was going to recommend The Greatest Showman, because like we do with Thanksgiving, really whitewashes the reality of the history. So I think that if you want to be equally blissfully ignorant, go ahead and watch The Greatest Showman.

Elisa: 1:09:22

There's no Thanksgiving there.

Audra: 1:09:24

No, just, the only connection is whitewashing

Elisa: 1:09:28

Okay, I see.

Audra: 1:09:29

Then in terms of something that I feel like approximates what we actually do in Thanksgiving is this movie called Dan in Real Life with Steve Carell. I think it probably came out in like the late aughts, but it's this basically family trip or maybe all of these, um, relatives coming together in one of the family's homes and having to spend a weekend together in close proximity it's not about Thanksgiving, but it, it captures what Thanksgiving feels like. But I think the way we as Americans think about Thanksgiving is it's really like family and food. You're going home to just like eat a lot with your family and say the things that you're grateful for. What we do learn about in elementary school is how it was this beautiful friendship between the settlers and the Native Americans. That's what they always tell you. The pilgrims learned so much and we were all just getting along and they completely ignore what actually happened. And so it's now become this holiday where we're just, oh, we're just thankful for that gorgeous friendship and the knowledge they shared. And none of us talk about what it actually is.

Elisa: 1:10:38

yeah, there's like an image of, there was a, it's like the Last Supper, like there was a, there was a dinner and on one side of the table were Native Americans, on the other were pilgrims and they ate corn and everyone was happy.

James: 1:10:51

got on and it was lovely. Right. Right. Okay.

Audra: 1:10:54

Yeah. Yes.

Lily: 1:10:56

Well, thank you guys so much for joining us.

James: 1:10:59

Yeah. Really appreciate your perspective on things. And maybe before we give our outro, perhaps you'd like to just let our listeners know how they can find you and where they can track you down.

Audra: 1:11:08

Yeah, for sure. They can find us on Instagram at culture colander. We're also anywhere you get your podcasts. So feel free to listen. We're in our third season right now, which is really exciting and, um, hopefully many more to come. And then I guess you could also email us if you have any questions or maybe you also want to collab. James and Lili have set a high bar, but if you, if you want to try to clear that bar, you can email us at culture colander at gmail. com.

Lily: 1:11:38

Well, that's it for another week of Groovy Movies and uh, we'll see you next week.

James: 1:11:43

See you next week! Goodbye!