Dune: Part Two (spoiler-free!)

It’s been out for a week but we’re not taking any chances. Here is our painstakingly spoiler-free discussion of Dune: Part Two, plus our thoughts on Madame Web and a sexy addition to the Film Pharmacy.

References
Denis Villeneuve on Dune: Part Two and dialogue v. cinematography for The Times
‘Dune: Part Two’ Star Stellan Skarsgard Laughed Seeing Austin Butler as Feyd-Rautha: Butler ‘Really Enjoyed Being Evil’ by Michaela Zee for Variety
Dune: Part Two’s box office success and what it means for the film industry by Anthony D’Alessandro for Deadline

Film Pharmacy
Bound (1996) dir. by the Wachowskis
Black Narcissus (1947) dir. by Powell and Pressburger
Unfaithful (2002) dir. by Adrian Lyne
10 Things I Hate About You (1999) dir. by Gil Junger
Fish Tank (2009) dir. by Andrea Arnold
Love dir. by Gaspar Noe

-----------
If you love what we do, please like, subscribe and leave a review!

Original music by James Brailsford
Logo design by Abby-Jo Sheldon

Follow us
Email us

Transcript

James: 0:00

Remember this? Here's a bigger one.

Lily: 0:12

Welcome to Groovy Movies. My name is Lily Austin.

James: 0:15

And my name's James Brailsford.

Lily: 0:17

Hello! Welcome back, everyone. This week on the podcast, we are talking, of course, about Dune Part Two.

James: 0:25

Yeah, so something that you were fortunate enough to see last week.

Lily: 0:31

The week before last, well, it depends what you count as last week, but a little while ago, we were very kindly given a couple of tickets to a press screening at the IMAX in London, which is very exciting, but very unfortunate for James being a Manchester based

James: 0:50

man. I was busy educating the next generation of filmmakers, you know, Lily, so

Lily: 0:56

unfortunately needs must. Yeah, it's very important, very important work.

James: 0:59

Absolutely, absolutely. So Lily, um, you've just been to see it a second time, haven't you today, as we record? Hot off the press?

Lily: 1:07

Well, yeah, because I loved it so much. And also I was aware that by the time we were going to be recording, um, it would be like a couple, like over a week. I needed it to be fresh in my mind. And what about you? You saw it last night.

James: 1:21

I saw it last night at a completely packed out screening at the Viewprintworks IMAX, like the second biggest IMAX in the UK. And, uh, yeah, it was, it was a blast to see it with a full house

Lily: 1:32

really. And what was the audience like? What was the vibe?

1:35

The

James: 1:35

energy? Oh, uh, unfortunately a little muted for my taste. And I have to say, I've been to the Viewprintworks quite a few times where it's been busy and very full. And it's quite a restrained crowd, you know, quite a reserved crowd, which is a shame really. Right.

Lily: 1:50

Cause, so when I went to see it the first time round, there was so much energy. Everyone was so excited. I think the fact that it was an audience of people seeing it early, there was so much. excitement in the air and the audience were so responsive to everything. Every joke Javier Bardem made, everyone was like in hysterics. There was a, there's a bit later on in the film where someone is slighted and everyone went, Oh, and there was another that went. Well, something kind of dramatic happened and everyone, but, but it was kind of a double cross and you're surprised. Can you tell that I'm trying very hard not to spoil anything, guys. It's going to be spoiler free, just like the title says. And, uh, and everyone went, Oh, they kind of made these like really, it was hilarious cause they were interesting noises. They weren't just like, Oh, it was like, there was like a lot of meaning behind them, you know, but then when I watched it today. It was just like, in your experience, very subdued, only a few giggles. People weren't laughing the way they had been and reacting. I don't know what that's about. Yeah,

James: 2:59

like when I, when I was watching June last night, I remember thinking, these are clearly moments that, I mean, I actually thought they were funny and I, I was kind of half chuckling to myself, but it didn't. Translate across to the room. I remember thinking this is clearly meant to get a laugh. This whole moment, especially like say Stilgar is much, you know, he's played slightly more for comedy than, yeah, by Javier Bardem. Yeah. He's clearly got moments that are funny, but, uh, yeah, the room, the room wasn't really biting for it or wasn't taking the bait.

Lily: 3:28

I wonder if that's because they weren't expecting it. Because I think my big takeaway from June part two was that in this film, they're trying to do a lot. A lot more different things than in the first one, I feel like in the first one, it was played quite straight. The focus was on setting up and kind of establishing this as a very different kind of movie to like David Lynch's June back in the 80s. Yeah. This is a classy movie. This is epic. This is chic and stylish and let us introduce you to this quite complex world of these different planets, Arrakis, et cetera. Whereas in this one, it was like, okay, we've done the setup. We know where we are, let's have a bit more fun with it. Let's crack a load of jokes. Let's have the romance. Let's have kind of BDSM inclined Harkonnen vibe that I absolutely was obsessed with. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So I think maybe the audience just weren't prepared for

James: 4:23

that. Possibly. Yeah, it could be that as well. But I just, I just find, like I say, I've been to a lot of different films at Viewprintworks and just think it's a tough crowd at the Viewprintworks IMAX, you know.

Lily: 4:32

They have very exacting standards.

James: 4:36

So, so, um, um, yeah, so shall we get into the, what we thought of it? I mean,

Lily: 4:41

Please, James, I'll, let me, let me throw the question back to you. What are your, what are

James: 4:46

your, what are your thoughts? Like a Benny Jesuit using the voice on me. Give me your thoughts. Ah, yes. Sorry.

Lily: 4:58

I would love to be a Benny Jesuit. They've got it down.

James: 5:02

You are, Lily. You are. So, um, so yeah, so, uh, what is it? I mean, I, I loved it, but, um, I would, there was, I had some reservations that I couldn't put my finger on. Oh my God. I knew

Lily: 5:13

it. I knew that there was a hot take coming because you were notably silent today on WhatsApp. Yeah. Yeah.

James: 5:20

Oh, I was saving it for the pod, Lily. Saving it for the pod. I know, but

Lily: 5:23

you're, in general, even though you save it, you will, you will give me some kind of enthusiastic nod when you've had a good time at the cinema.

James: 5:32

I had a good time. Oh, sorry. I had a great time at the cinema. This is, sorry. Sorry for having any kind of opinion that isn't just sputtering praise. It's like, no, I had a great time. It's a, it's a superb film. One of the best sequels. Of any kind of film ever done, you know, it doesn't drop the ball too much, but I was trying to put my finger on what I was missing, Lily, and you've basically, in our little chat just now, you've kind of summed up the thing I was missing, I realized I actually missed the world building, I missed discovering all these places, because then once there was a lot of time on the desert, I was actually like, I want to get away from the desert, but you know, it's all Paul's training and him getting, becoming a better warrior, but that's not to the detriment of the film, it was just almost, it was The scene's been set now and I enjoyed discovering them in the first film. I think, and there's no way they could replicate that. I can understand

Lily: 6:17

that. I actually really didn't feel that way. And I, I love a bit of world building because I really enjoyed learning more about the kind of underground layers of Arrakis and the, and the world that unfolds there. That I found quite, the way that was shot, I found very moving and atmospheric, especially in IMAX.

James: 6:37

Yeah. Oh yeah. Beautiful cinematography. Well, oh, Lily mentioned the IMAX. So I remember a couple of years ago was talking about Doom part one and you very casually said to me, and by the way, I need to be careful how I frame this. This is no, this next conversation isn't to the denigration of small independent cinemas. I love small independent cinemas, but some horses for courses, certain films made for certain places. And he said to me, Oh, I went to see the Genesis. I think you said there's something like that. And he said it was fine. I was like, Oh, Something of that ilk. Am I misremembering it, Lily? Am I misquoting it? Well, I'm

Lily: 7:08

only shaking my head because it wasn't the Genesis. It was a, uh, an electric cinema. Okay. But I mean, equivalent, equivalent, much, much of a muchness, um, but that was before we had a podcast, James. So I didn't know, I knew nothing then. It was like the equivalent of Paul on Atreides. I think I know about life and film and what is good for me, but until you get on, get into the correct kind of cinema, until you're on Arrakis. You, you figure out, Oh, I, I knew nothing before. And now I'm really, I've with the guidance of wise Fremen,

James: 7:47

I've found my calling. Now you've drunk the blue juice. You've seen what cinema can really

Lily: 7:52

be. You know what? I actually have because my hot take from seeing it at the Dolby today was I preferred IMAX.

James: 8:02

There we go. There we go, ladies and gents. Tell me why, I'm interested.

Lily: 8:07

Well see, I don't know if it's just because of where I was sat, but the Dolby I saw was in Leicester Square, and it's a very big cinema with two layers of seats, and I was, I didn't know any of this, I just picked what looked like quite, the one good seat like in the middle kind of thing, but it was, it was very near the back. You're so far away from the screen. I didn't like that at all. Um, I don't know if being closer up would have been better, but then you're kind of on the ground level, right? So I was like, I actually peered down at the end. I went to the front of the balcony and peered down to try and get a sense of whether or not that would have been better. Do you think it would have been better?

James: 8:47

Maybe, yeah, I think so. I've sat on both places and like, like, uh, the best place I think is the Royal Box because you've got a perfect sight line straight across the screen. Uh, but you are quite far away from the screen because, um, I don't want to be that far away. Yeah, exactly. I'm completely with you. That's, that's why I recommended the other Dolby Theatre, as we, as we since didn't realize, you

Lily: 9:12

know, it's so

James: 9:13

annoying because it is not very, it isn't clear at all on the websites, what, what's going on there.

Lily: 9:21

So yeah, just for clarity, for anyone who cares about this stuff, hopefully some of our listeners, as it is becoming the dominant part of our conversation, but, uh, there are, there are two Dolby's on Leicester Square and I got confused or I misread. I just didn't remember this, this quite important, but yes, things that it's not made clear on the Odeon website. Cause they're both Odeon. Dolby's, right?

James: 9:44

And they're both in Leicester

Lily: 9:45

Square. Ridiculous. And so But separate buildings. Right. And so the one I went to was this, yeah, massive one. And so, so what the, so is the other one, the West End one, that is what it's called. Yeah. Is that, is that a smaller,

James: 9:57

you'll be Much smaller, much smaller. Damn it. Yeah. With nice, with nice raked seating. So you've got a really nice seat, you know, cause the other one, the one you went into is a beautiful picture palace, but it's like really, the building's spectacular, but it's an old building that wasn't designed for like high tech cinema experiences, you know.

Lily: 10:17

Yeah. And you're right. I was so annoyed because despite it being such a big cinema. My view was blocked by the guy sat in front of me a bit. I had to sit at a bit of an angle. I was like, are you kidding me? So, okay. So maybe I will try this other Dolby because the seats were very comfortable. I will say that more comfortable than the IMAX, the View IMAX

James: 10:36

from last week. Oh, they're super duper comfy. The ones in the West End aren't as comfy, I'm afraid, Lily. Oh God. You can't have everything.

Lily: 10:44

Oh, I hate this. I hate, why can't they just give me what I want?

James: 10:48

You know, you have this game where it's, where, where it's like somebody's head. Midriff and legs and you can interchange them all, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lily: 10:56

I think that's called, is that called consequences? I'm

James: 10:59

not sure. I'll take the seat from the Leicester Square and the screen, anyway, sorry. Back to June, back to

Lily: 11:04

June. Yes, back to June. So, but tell me more. So, so that was the thing that you were missing, but, but overall, were you riveted?

James: 11:12

Oh, yeah. I mean, I was completely gripped. I was, I was completely into it. Sorry. It is hard to say the only thing that didn't quite work for me is something that there's no way on earth they could have replicated, which is that feeling of exploring the universe for the very first time. But I loved how they opened it up. Like I loved seeing the Harkonnen military base of operations. And I loved seeing that. Yeah. And I did. I absolutely loved the black and white. Arena battle and I, and I love the delicate, the, just the little touch of the fact that anything that's under the sunlight is in black and white. And then anything that's out of the direct light of the sun, the color comes back into it. So it's like, oh, it's just, it's the light from the sun. That's making everything black and white. And then just, you just see color fading back in as things recede away from the sun into the background, which was beautiful. I didn't even

Lily: 12:00

notice that James.

James: 12:01

Oh yeah. I spot, but I was obsessed with that.

Lily: 12:04

That is art. When that scene came, came back around as it were, when I was watching it the second time, I was like, yes, here it is again, because I was so kind of in rapture when I watched it the first time around, like in IMAX, that was just epic. And, and it was just such a, so this is when we're introduced to Austin Butler's character, who is the Baron's nephew and. I was so happy to see him in this role because I read an interview with Stellan Skarsgård who plays the Baron and he talked about how the first scene he did with Austen Butler he couldn't help but laugh because he seemed to be enjoying playing this evil guy so so much like he was relishing it so much it was kind of funny and you really get that sense and he apparently even he like He studied the first Dune and studied how Selin Skarsgård spoke so he could replicate that, which I didn't even notice when I was watching the first time. He was just such a good character, but I was, I really noticed it the second time around. And it's so true. He is, you know, we laugh about him and his, his Elvis impression that, you know, hung around long after the film had been made and come out, but he is very, very good at voices. Cause he really, he really. does seem like a relative of the Baron. It's really impressive.

James: 13:17

He was excellent casting in it. I mean, I thought all the, all the new cast additions, I thought Lea Seydoux in a very small role, still like, like such a

Lily: 13:25

great screen presence. And just to bring it back to that scene. I, I think we talked about this with the first June, but the way that the cinematography Is used to like, color each place, the way that each planet has its own kind of color scape and how that echoes the characters, the people who, who lived there, like we said, this world building, you know, the black and whiteness of the Harkonnens, you know, is it, it, it carries through to everything, the, the things they wear, the fact that there are these like, hairless women who stand around with like, black mouths and get killed arbitrarily, like it all follows through. I love

James: 14:07

it. Yeah. And one thing about the, how they shot that arena sequence, I was reading about it, that a Greek Fraser, the cinematographer, he shot it using a camera that was made for filming infrared light. So it was picking up light on the infrared spectrum, which we can't see with our own eyes. And that's why you've got that ghostly white look to everyone's faces. It's picking up lights that we don't see in the infrared stuff. And our faces, I think, reflect quite a lot of that infrared light that we wouldn't see it, but the camera picks it up. So that's why you get this. So it's almost like this translucent kind of ghostly white glow that's coming off everyone's faces when you, in those black and white sequences. So

Lily: 14:47

good. So, so clever.

James: 14:50

Absolutely. Yeah. But I love that sequence. That was, that was a standout part of the film for me, for

Lily: 14:54

sure. Yeah, definitely. And gave you a nice break from all those desert scenes you were sick of.

James: 15:00

Absolutely. Get me off planet. Get me to some crazy new planets, please. There we go.

Lily: 15:04

I did actually, as someone who doesn't particularly enjoy that kind of thing of a long time watching someone train to become a good Fighter or whatever.

James: 15:12

Yeah. That, that sounds like totally not your thing. Yeah, it's not

Lily: 15:15

my thing, but I, I felt like they didn't actually spend too much time with that, those scenes where ostensibly that was what was happening. Were actually being used for other things. So love story with Zendaya, which very cute, very happy to see that adorable and the kind of stuff that's going on with his mother. You know, the, the thing I really wanna talk about is the, um, again, no spoil, but the. kind of ongoing question that's toyed with about this notion of a messiah versus a false prophet and yeah and the idea of you know having faith in something external that will save you or being self reliant and your own savior i thought that was a very interesting subjects to be considered throughout the film.

James: 16:00

Yeah, oh yeah, I mean, that's the fascinating core concept of the book, is that how much is he a genuine messiah figure, how much is it just the path has been laid by the Bene Gesserit, and also Maybe that's just how these kind of Messiah figures throughout history have worked to some degree anyway, that it's essentially like a PR campaign or it's people behind the scenes trying to orchestrate some power. But yeah, I love it. Those are the bits of the film as well that I found particular highlights whenever, whenever we were getting into that territory.

Lily: 16:29

Anytime we were with the Harkonnens, I was happy. I was having a good time. Um, loves them being so disgusting. Because they were like, they were like brutal, but in this like, like I said, it was this kind of BDSM y, they're really savouring it and it's all, and they're all in like this black harnesses and stuff, like

James: 16:48

leather harnesses. They're sadistic, aren't they? They're sadistic people. And I love, I love that they did this in the first film and they did it in the second film. They have a shot of when Robin's walking along and it's like waist height, the camera, and you see these coiled up whip and they do the exact same shot in the second film as well. It's almost like. It's just a nice quick symbol of like, they're so brutal. They carry whips around with them.

Lily: 17:11

I love it. I absolutely love it. But that aside, the other thing I really enjoyed was seeing Lady Jessica, who's mother, um, Rick Ferguson, plays her, uh, kind of devolving into this, like, quite. Dark character that kind of journey that she goes on in the film is like very, very enjoyable to watch. I mean, it was quite a dramatic change from how she was at the very start of the film to what she becomes, but I loved it. She was equally as weird. Like it was, it was almost quite camp, you know, like it was so theatrical, so over the top and yeah, it just made me very happy to see that. I was like, this is why I was here for like the first, you know, really enjoyed, but the way it was so stylish and. minimal in a way. It did always, I felt like, teeter on the edge of becoming quite dull. And I'm like, yes, now we've got some real weirdness. This is all coming through. Yeah. So there was an article I read where Denis Villeneuve is quoted as saying that he, he's not into Uh, script writing. He wishes he could make films with, with no dialogue at all. He thinks that film is all about cinematography. Yes. I wanted, I wanted to hear your thoughts on this James and what you thought of the dialogue in Dune 2 Part 2.

James: 18:28

My thoughts are, I couldn't agree with Denis Villeneuve any more than. It's humanly possible. I, I completely agree. You know, not every film is, is, should be a cinematic experience where it's all about the pictures and the sound and the feel of it. That's not what I'm saying, but certainly I, I totally get it. For me, it's way more interesting to either be involved with making or with watching something where the focus has been on the experience of being at the cinema, um, less so than just what is the dialogue. I mean, I found the dialogue to be okay. I didn't particularly You know, like with the first Dune, I thought the dialogue was, for me, it did the trick. It was neither, neither particularly amazing, but also I didn't, I wasn't pulled out of the story wondering about a clunky line. I

Lily: 19:12

felt that there were a few lines that were edging being a bit clunky, but everyone, it's such a good cast. So everyone delivered them with the. gusto that they needed to get away with it. The requisite gusto. I, I think it particularly, um, with particularly Timothée Chalamet's performance, I felt like he of everyone had some quite difficult lines to deliver. And he just, he did manage to just about get away with it, you know, cause when he's becoming a bit more grandiose, it's like, oh, oh, okay. Um, but that's always the challenge with these kinds of epic movies because you can't speak normally when you're, doing things that are so grand. Yes, exactly. I'm glad you mentioned the riding of the back of the worm because I want to just touch on that for a moment as well. I felt like the thing with the riding on the back of the worm was that that loomed quite large in the advertising for this film and the kind of marketing was like, you're finally going to see Paul Atreides riding a worm. I don't think any of us really were here for that. Like, I don't think we came to see him ride a worm. That, to me, is like the least significant moment in the film and yet it's given so much weight, you know? And then he did it and I was, I mean, don't get me wrong, I was very happy for him. Okay, that is, that, no, that's not a spoiler. We saw that in the trailer. It's not pertinent to the plot, right?

James: 20:35

Yeah, they showed the six minute sequence where he rides his first worm as a promotional thing throughout the past few months as well, so. Yeah. Maybe it's just because it's a good visual to hang the film on. It's like, hey, look, here's a big worm. Remember the big worm from the last film? It's like a fairly just like, remember this? He is a bigger one.

Lily: 20:53

Yeah. I think, I think you're right. I think you're right. And also actually when thinking about the first film and, and what we were saying about it, it being less weird, um, that was probably the weirdest element, the campus thing that came in, right. It was the reveal of the big worm. So I guess it was quite nice to like. Follow it through. That's something quite, I have to say, this is like the most wonderfully built world, like kudos to the author of those books. Tell me his name. Frank Herbert. That's it. Thank you. Kudos to Frank, because there is a kind of. Continuities throughout every element that I find incredibly pleasing, like the internal logic of how the Fremen live their life and how they conserve water and what that means for every, everything they do, how they live their lives is just so satisfying to

James: 21:39

see. Yeah, and the tech is so nicely done, all the, all the different devices, like the, you only see it for the first time in this film where they extract the water from dead people. Uh, dead people so they can take their water and yeah, just it's, it's fascinatingly realized. Totally. I, I loved as well with, with Princess Irulan, uh, the Emperor's daughter, that she's making like a little, uh, like a recording of a diary and it's like a very old school, it's almost like a wax cylinder affair, you know, it's like. Steampunk version of future

Lily: 22:10

tech. That's, yeah, that's what I love is that everything looks very ancient and, um, and that gives it this gravitas and yeah, it's all very high tech.

James: 22:20

Well, it's, it's in the story, in the books, uh, it's made very clear that AI has been outlawed. So we do have this kind of hybrid high technology society, yet it seems very basic. To

Lily: 22:31

me, it didn't seem basic, it seemed very, very advanced. I just, just didn't. No, it's,

James: 22:36

but the technology, but the, the computers behind it are very utilitarian. Things are, it's more about switches and buttons. You never have a computer going, here you go, sir. You know? Yeah. Yeah, it's like this analog, analog version of technology. Okay,

Lily: 22:50

I love that. I love that that isn't actually ever explained. That's just like, I, like, that's quite cool to, to go into it and not know that. And just, cause it all makes sense. You don't need that explanation, but that was an interesting element. Absolutely.

James: 23:03

That's what I liked about watching the film as well. Oh, they haven't actually spelt out what's going on here. It's just like, it's just a texture to the world that, you know, you don't need to know that to appreciate the world and it still feels pretty solid.

Lily: 23:14

Totally. Um, so as someone who's read the books, how, In general, how do you think this film stands up as a, as an

James: 23:22

adaption? Like near flawless, basically, like as far as the spirit, what I imagine the characters to be like, how it should all go, how it should all be presented on the screen. Yeah, it's like an incredibly Well realized adaptation of a book you can, and you can see, you can see that everybody involved loved this source material. I mean, Hans Zimmer said like it was his favorite book as a child was, was Dune, you know, so like, you can see that there's a lot of the core creative talent absolutely love what they're doing. And, you know, it comes across on the screen.

Lily: 23:54

Absolutely. The only thing that I did think was a little bit of a shame was again, no spoilers, but there are certain elements of the film that. I think would have had a bit more gravitas, a bit more power if it wasn't for the fact that Star Wars came before. And obviously that story and that film is so influenced by Dune, right? Like George Lucas was a big fan. Yeah.

James: 24:17

There are parts that feel a bit like, Ooh, this feels a little bit like a, um, like ripped off from Star Wars or like a. And a more primitive version of Star Wars, then you realize, well, actually it came first and Star Wars was definitely quote unquote inspired by a lot of it.

Lily: 24:31

Yeah, exactly. So there were a few things where I thought, God, it might, you kind of almost don't even need this because it doesn't have the same oomph that it would have done because we're so used to certain tropes in these kinds of films. But once I reminded myself that I'm like, Oh, well, you know, that's. That's a shame, but what can you, what can you do?

James: 24:49

Yeah, but it's almost like, because it's been done to such high quality, that to me makes me not worry about it too

24:56

much.

Lily: 24:56

Yeah, I think because this film aesthetically looks, it could not be more different from Star Wars. It's a world apart, that I think it's actually, it's fine, because yeah, they're kind of, the influence is clear, and you know, they're kind of in conversation with each other in certain senses, but The

James: 25:12

execution, very, very different, very different.

Lily: 25:15

Yeah, and even, and also with the dialogue, there, there are these funny lines, and I, I do like that. pulls time with the Fremen. You get to feel like this, these are real people living in a community rather than archetypes and these big powerful characters that are doing stuff in the universe. So that, I think that was done well, but there isn't the same kind of like zippy humor that there is in like a Star Wars movie, say that, you know, they don't have the same quips and stuff. So there's a very different

James: 25:39

feel. Yeah. Star Wars definitely feels like space fantasy, feels like a slightly fantasy world. And even though. I'm not going to say Dune feels real, because it doesn't, but it almost has a bit more of a grounded quality to it. Like, if I fell into Star Wars world, even though obviously it would be bad if Darth Vader was coming after me, I think in general, it might be quite fun. If I got dropped into Dune world, I'd be like, this is fucking awful, get me out of here.

Lily: 26:08

Yeah, it's very true.

James: 26:09

It's like, it's quite bleak. I mean, Caladan looked nice, but even then it seemed a bit basic. I don't know. You know, it's less of an aspirational fantasy world.

Lily: 26:17

In a way, but also seeing how the Fremen have learned to deal with the environment they live in, they clearly have made the most of their life, which is very reflective of like, You know, humankind on this planet, right? People have lived in lots of adverse conditions and people, human beings find a way to live there and enjoy their life, the built community. So I really love seeing that in the film because you're right, that feels very grounded and real to me. That's just how human beings are.

James: 26:49

Yeah. And I, I did like, I did like the Fremen tribes actually, like just, just the, the kind of interplay and the banter between them felt quite natural, very well directed that I thought. Definitely.

Lily: 26:59

Definitely. Yeah. Big thumbs up for me. I, I have had such a good time watching this film. Oh,

James: 27:06

I'll definitely be going to see it another three times minimum for sure.

Lily: 27:10

Can we just talk about, clearly there's going to be another film, right? It's inevitable. I believe that Denis Villeneuve has the rights to the whole Dune back catalog. Oh, I

James: 27:23

didn't realize that. I, I'd read that he said, he said on record that he's only got one more film that he's interested in doing for Dune.

Lily: 27:29

Yes. I know I've heard that, but I do believe he has, he has purchased the whole franchise. I might be wrong, but that's what I read. So I think he may have one more in him, but maybe. The studio that he's working

James: 27:42

for. Warner Brothers. So maybe it'll be the exec producer and he'll produce the other directors work. I don't know. Yeah. But, but,

Lily: 27:48

but I hope that doesn't happen. I want him to do them all, but then it does get a lot weirder, right?

James: 27:54

Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember if I'm on book four or book five, but, uh, after book two, it just cut your losses. It's sad because all of the potential of the first book just kind of gets squandered. The second book, it's more like a coda, the second book. So rather than it being like another. Big Dune esque epic narrative. It's a smaller story. And then from the third book onwards, the writing's not very good. The plots aren't smart. You know, it just, it just really made it special, which is a shame.

Lily: 28:21

Yeah. Oh, no.

James: 28:23

Oh, yeah. And I can see why Denis Villeneuve. Um, would say he'll do the second book and then that's it because I don't think there's much of a spoiler, but from the third book onwards, there's a time jump, which means that all of the original cast just history.

Lily: 28:39

Oh, I wish he'd do his own thing with it rather than sticking to the books thing, because I love this world. I want to carry on. Like I want to explore, because there was definitely a hint. Well, they are

James: 28:48

making a Benny, they're making a TV series of the Bene

Lily: 28:51

Gesserit. Oh no, that all, that sounds rubbish. Now that, that

James: 28:55

I'm well interested into. A

Lily: 28:56

TV show though. Of the

James: 28:59

Bene Gesserit. It's like, yeah, great. I want like a kick ass Bene Gesserit detective going around looking at, trying to track down rogue versions of the Lizhan El Gaib. And she does karate as well and she uses the voice like.

Lily: 29:11

I would happily follow Lea Seydoux around with her, her version. So would I. But I don't know if I want it in like TV form. I wish I would make another film of it. Cause you're right, the Bene Gesserits are the most interesting. That's not true, I love them all. I want a film on each planet. Just like, the comings and goings of each of these tribes. It's fascinating. All right. Well, I feel like we've discussed you insufficiently. Do you say, is there any other points you want to make?

James: 29:43

I feel like maybe there is, but I might have to get back to you on that. Cause it's, you know, for me it's been last night, so I'm still processing, I think, but overall, this is a great film. A very worthy sequel to the first one and, you know, and the first film in a long time. Oh yeah. Great. You know, a good film at the cinema with a packed, packed auditorium.

Lily: 30:02

Yeah. Which is such a relief given that. After last year's strikes, there's been this huge knock on effect. There aren't going to be as many big book buses coming out this year. So studios are very concerned about profits. And obviously there was this huge flop with Madame Webb recently. Did you see it? I wasn't sure. No. Oh, so you haven't actually seen it. You're just very aware of the flop.

James: 30:25

Very aware of it, listened to and watched lots of reviews online and also talked to some of my students who have seen it. So I can confirm without having seen it, I'm almost 100 percent sure it's absolute hot garbage from what everybody, including film school students, who, they actually enjoyed it, they actually enjoyed it, but, but because it was so shit, you know. Oh

Lily: 30:46

my god. Well, yeah, I read that that grossed around 70 mil. Worldwide and this, and June part two has grossed 80 mils in its opening weekend. So that just, that just says it all really. But anyway, but it's a relief cause yeah, it's, we need, we need these films to be a success.

James: 31:07

We need good quality. Studios need to remember about making good quality things that there is an audience for, which Dune is a classic case of fulfilling that on both counts. Absolutely. Absolutely. Madden Web was the opposite. There was no audience for it, and it was made really, really badly. So how, how can anybody, a studio, think that'll definitely do

Lily: 31:29

well? Yeah, you're right. It's just not thinking about who the audience actually is, but just having this vague idea of like stats and what might appeal to a demographic, right?

James: 31:40

Like, like, like, it's like, what was it called? The four, five, one, one, the four, one, seven or something. Like there appears to be zero audience, as has been proven, that wants female centric, female led. C list, or not even C list, D list, like, have you heard of Madame Webb before? Who's heard of

Lily: 31:56

Madame Webb? I thought you were about to say Dakota Johnson's D list. No, she's a great actor. How dare you, how very dare you.

James: 32:04

Not at all, completely, you know, completely underserved in this, massively.

Lily: 32:09

I mean, if it was well made and a good story, I don't think it needs to be, it doesn't need to be a well known, I don't know, I mean, it's not, I'm not the, I'm not the market for it,

James: 32:20

but. Well, that's what I'm saying, you're not the market for it, but it was aimed at women, wasn't it? It was aimed at kind of, you're probably a bit older than their market, but the point is like, nobody wanted to see this. That they made. They completely misunderstood, I don't know, who they thought they were making this for. But, um, but yeah, if it was well made, if Madam Web was well made, I probably still wouldn't go to see it. Because I'm like, it would have, it wouldn't have to just be well made for me to go to see it. It would have to be one of the best comic book movies of all time for me to go to see it. Especially because it's of a DEF list character who I've never heard of. In superhero films, there has to be some brand recognition. I only give a shit about the big ones that everyone's heard of, like Superman, Batman, Spider Man. Like, you know, maybe Iron Man Thor, but once it Madam Web! Like, you know, they thought, I think the studios just thought, Oh, it's any old comic book character who gives a shit, people go and see it. You know, when the audience is saying, we won't just go and see any old shit.

Lily: 33:13

For me, the most interesting part of, of this film's run has just been seeing the red carpet looks of Dakota Johnson and Sidney Sweeney, because they were both in Webb esque dresses, and I thought, God, the impact of Barbie. A marketing of movies, you know, like everyone now is, is leaning into the, to the look of the film, although I see, you know, cause obviously Margot Robbie replicated every kind of Barbie for, for the press run for, For the Barbie movie and, and yeah, they obviously were doing the

James: 33:47

same. I hadn't clocked that the dresses they were wearing were webbed quite. Yeah. Yeah. And

Lily: 33:51

with, and with June as well, with the, with June part two, the, the red

James: 33:55

carpet. what Zendaya was wearing, it was

Lily: 33:56

amazing. Yeah. And one, yeah. And one of the red carpets Zendaya wore this robotic style, like metal body.

James: 34:02

From 1995 or something.

Lily: 34:05

Yeah, so you know your fashion and then on another red carpet, her and Timothée Chalamet were wearing matching jumpsuits. They're very much echoing the look of the film again on these red carpets. And I like that. I like that kind of extension of the universe into fashion. I think it's quite fun. I'm here for

James: 34:22

it. So will you be rocking your June inspired outfits this weekend then, Lily? Yeah, babe. I

Lily: 34:27

mean, I'm, I'm always doing that. I, I want

James: 34:30

to be like, No, no, no, sorry. I keep forgetting you're not, you're not. I don't know why I'm messing with my own image.

Lily: 34:35

Yeah, I, in my mind, I'm, I'm the, uh, the Florence Pugh in the, of the, I like that little beaded head thing she wears. Yeah. You know, she looks

James: 34:46

cool. It looks really cool. I was like, that was a beautiful piece of eye candy as I was watching it. Just all the little things going around. Thank you. Well, no, they were like dangly bits. They were the beads that made it the main thing.

Lily: 35:00

There's still beads that were dangling. Maybe crystals? Were they crystals?

James: 35:04

I don't know. They felt like they were little bits of metal. Like they felt

Lily: 35:06

like. Yeah. Okay. You're probably right. Tassels. I'm going to keep throwing words out. Yeah, you're right. They were more like tassels. Yeah. Guys, look out for that. That's a strong, strong point. Yeah. I mean, for me, the, my favorite thing of course is the Bene Gesserits. Box headwear with the, with the kind of cape, all the cape y things. Oh, it's just all good stuff. The chicest known universe ever created.

James: 35:32

Absolutely, a very stylish cinematic universe.

Lily: 35:35

Okay, well, before we wrap up, shall we take a trip to the film pharmacy?

James: 35:44

Yes, we're back. It's our first film pharmacy of series four. And we've got an interesting question here from a long time listener. They say they have an incredibly shallow Me and my girlfriend are both bisexual and to beat the winter blues, we gave ourselves a treat for the eyes by watching Closer, starring Julia Roberts, Jude Law, Natalie Portman and Clive Owen. I wanted to know, what are your go to eye candy films to get through the long winter nights?

Lily: 36:13

I love this question. Can I just say, you skipped over her saying, wow, in brackets after Clive Irwin, which I do

James: 36:21

apologize. I didn't mean to edit out the intention behind your message and misinterpret what you said.

Lily: 36:27

It was just, I just really enjoyed it because it was brackets, wow, full stop, close bracket. Real emphasis there. And a very, very good choice. Yeah, Closer, I've, I, Closer is a very interesting film, like, I think we should probably do it at some point on, on Never seen it. It's, it's very interesting. I have very mixed feelings about it, so there's lots to talk about. But it is definitely a very sexy film. What are your, what is your? Wait, hang

James: 36:53

on, hang on. You, you just turned that turnaround back on me and now it's turned back around. Okay, wait, yeah. So what am I just, so I have to say it did, it was a tough one for me to think. So I, I don't have a category in my head of eye candy films, although maybe I do, but I've classified it as something else in my own head, you know, like you do a folder on your PC. Anyway, um. So I had a bit to get into, I've got two because one of them we've already covered and I'm sure our listener will be very familiar with the film if they've listened to our podcast as much as we think they have. Which is Bound, which is a very, uh, very sexy film. Great choice. But I was thinking of something that we haven't covered before, which is a little bit eye candy and I was thinking, oh yeah, yeah, here we go. For me, it would have to be Black Narcissus, the 1947 Powell and Pressburger psychological drama.

Lily: 37:42

Oh my gosh. That is A very interesting choice. I love the choice. Now explain why this is an eye candy film for you. Maybe just give the listeners a very quick overview of what it is. A logline. It's

James: 37:57

about a group of nuns in a convent in the Himalayas and one of them goes completely nuts.

Lily: 38:03

Very hot, hot,

James: 38:04

hot, hot. Yeah, absolutely. That's, that's, that's the, uh, that's the book. The up upshot of it though. Very sexy

Lily: 38:10

Nuns. Is that what it is? Sexy nuns? I've seen it, but I, I just don't really remember being aroused.

James: 38:17

Well, I mean, you know, what can I say? We very different people, Lily,

Lily: 38:21

but are they meant to be sexy? Is that the intention? You just find them sexy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that for you, James. Love it. That's great. Okay. Cool. So we're learning a lot about you today. Maybe too much. Um, okay. Well that's it for film part. Wow. Just kidding. Just kidding. I have, I actually have quite a long list. Um, so I'll rattle through them because some of them I've mentioned before. So unfaithful, the Richard Gere, Diane Lane movie, it's like an erotic thriller that I find very sexy. Not Richard Gere. He's like the cockled. husband at home. He's not, he's not that hot in it. He's fine. But the, uh, the guy that Diane Lane gets with, who I think the last time I talked about it, I also didn't know his name. So sorry to that guy, but he's this very sexy, I believe French, maybe Spanish. I think it was French and they have a very hot time together. So I love. That was always a go to when I was younger. The thing I realized when I was thinking about this was these are all films I would watch quite regularly when I was, yeah, in my like, sort of early 20s at like, uni and stuff. I think I need a new one, basically. It's been a while, but we will later in the series be talking about 10 Things I Hate About You. And definitely, Heath Ledger's smile in that film, and the way he tucks, he kind of tucks her, Julia Starr's hair. Behind her ear. I think I, I think I'm repeating myself a little bit that I find so, so hot, but then also in contrast, I find that movie Nymphomaniac by Lars Von Trier quite

James: 39:56

hot. Wow. I find it quite bleak, kind of hot, but

Lily: 40:00

bleak. I feel, I feel very ashamed of that because I know it's like very bleak. There's a lot of unpleasant things happening. And similarly, I have to say that, um, Michael Fassbender. In the film Fishtank, there's a sex scene in that which is like, the circumstances are terrible. terrible, terrible. I can't help it. The way he is filmed his body. Oh my God. So, so hot. And it was so, uh, that movie love, I guess, but no, I got such a

James: 40:30

long list. I struggled here.

Lily: 40:33

I did have a minute of being like, Oh, I don't know. I haven't, I can't think of the last film I watched that I found really sexy and like good eye candy. And then it just started flowing out of me. Cause I've used, you must've seen that movie love. The Gaspinori film about the love triangle and surprised we didn't talk about it for our love triangle episode actually. It's got Carl Gluzman in who is. I think probably the most beautiful man ever. And then also these two really beautiful women, Aomi Mewak and Clara Christen. There's a

James: 41:01

threesome scene that's just Oh,

Lily: 41:03

okay. It's a controversial film because they, they actually do have sex in it. And when it was in cinemas, it was love in 3D. And there's like a, there's a shot with a bodily function. A male bodily function, which really makes use of the 3D camera. It's, it's naff, almost camp really. It's kind of

James: 41:23

ridiculous, but Would you say it's up there with gravity for its use of 3D for storytelling purposes?

Lily: 41:29

Absolutely. They're the two pillars. I think you need to watch it and then we can discuss because everyone watch it. It was a controversial film for sure. Gasparini loves a bit of controversy. Um, but I did find it very sexy. So, so yeah, I, I, I have others, but I'll stop there. I'll, I'll leave it at that. Okay. Well, yeah. Thank you to that listener for the, uh, for exposing us for the. Perverts that we are, I feel very exposed now.

James: 41:59

I think you're going to have a lot to, a lot, a lot of choices there, to be honest. Take your pick, please.

Lily: 42:05

All right. Well, that is it for another episode of Groovy Movies. Thank you so much for listening.

James: 42:10

Thank you so much for listening. If you wouldn't mind leaving us a like or a five star review, all of those things help get our podcast out to a bigger audience.

Lily: 42:18

So we'll see you next week. Bye guys. Bye. Follow us on Instagram at groovymoviespod or email us groovymoviespod at gmail. com Groovy

James: 42:27

Movies was produced and edited by Lily Austin. Music

Lily: 42:30

Browsford.

James: 42:32

Our logo was designed by Abby Jo

Lily: 42:34

Sheldon. For references and more information about the films discussed, check out the show notes.