Groovy Movies
Weekly deep dives into your favourite films with Lily Austin and James Brailsford.
Groovy Movies
Sad girls on holiday (Lost in Translation, Swimming Pool, Shirley Valentine)
Between the weather and the state of the world, it’s been a pretty sad summer, so we’re sticking with that theme as we look at some of the best sad girls on film holiday. We discuss Charlotte Rampling in Francois Ozon’s Swimming Pool, Scarlett Johansson in Sofia Coppola’s Lost in Translation (and Bill Murray too) and Pauline Collins as Lewis Gilbert’s Shirley Valentine.
References
Peter Dinklage discussing the live action remake of Snow White on Marc Maron’s podcast in 2022
‘Todd Haynes’ Joaquin Phoenix Gay Romance Pic Not Moving Forward As Actor Exits Set’, by Anthony D’Alessando for deadline.com
-----------
If you love what we do, please like, subscribe and leave a review!
Edited and produced by Lily Austin and James Brailsford
Original music by James Brailsford
Instagram
TikTok
Email us
I may be exaggerating, you know I like to do that for comic effect
Lily:Welcome to Groovy Movies. My name is Lily Austin.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:And my name's James Brailsford. Hello.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Hello James. How are you?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:I'm all right. Thank you. Yes, as like last recording there's been quite a bit going on in the world of film news and goss So yeah, you know some choice bits to kind of pick over I think
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:All right, without further ado, what are you picking over this week?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Well, it's like my favorite subject of the moment, which is just just Disney, Disney's and their, their disconnection between what they put out and the audiences giving a shit about it, like, like, you know, they've really just had a string of misses and Deadpool and Wolverine, congratulations, a huge hit for them, but that was a project they inherited from Fox. So it doesn't really count in my mind as Disney. Disney produced it. that film was already well down the development pipeline and then Disney bought Fox. So they inherited the project. So it made money, I think, because Disney didn't have much to do with it. Um, anyway, so,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Shots fired. We're not even a minute into the show.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:anyway, Snow White, there's a live action remake coming,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Yes, next year, finally. I feel like this has been on the cards for forever. They've
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:and I'm going to say that I think the intention was for it to be released for the 100th anniversary, which was last year, but due to the constant delays, like it was the original release date, I think was early last year, but it's now in March of next year. So there's been. Lots of reshoots, just, it seems to me remarkable that for what is essentially the, the prestige, the Rolls Royce of Disney films, the kind of, the motherlode, that they kind of rather haphazardly went into production on a film which they hadn't really thought through, and then they've reshot it all.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:it all.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yeah, because they originally didn't have seven dwarfs in it, I would say check out the images online to see what they originally had in, it wasn't seven dwarfs, and then obviously, surprise, surprise, not having seven dwarfs in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs caused a little bit of a backlash.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Wait, what do you mean? You can't, you can't just tease us like that and not tell us, so what did it originally have? Just no dwarfs at all? oh, was, but, but I seem to remember, wasn't it because originally there were going to be dwarves, or, or, is that even the PC term these days? little people, I think? Right, and then that was considered a touchy subject, which I already, I, I'm feeling right now, I feel like I'm on touchy ground, I don't want to upset anyone. Wasn't that it? So now they've gone back?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:No, no, that, that was part of it. Peter Dinklage, did an interview with his take on
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:What was his
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:no. Ah, you know, again, again, it is like we're stepping, stepping on eggshells here. I would say just read the interview. Like, because, because.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:we'll put it in the show notes.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Put it in the show notes. Read the interview. We'll have a look at some behind the scenes stills of what was originally shot. And, um, and then test screenings have been disastrous after the reshoot. So they've had to reshoot it again. And there's rumors that
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:So it's a re re shoot.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yes, third set of re shoots. apparently audiences didn't really, connect with, uh, Rachel Ziegler's modern spin, on Snow White. You know, obviously, doesn't need no man. It's not gonna be a romance about the prince. She's gonna self actualize and she's gonna take, command of her own destiny, you know, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Okay. Yeah, that does seem, uh, Snow White was my favorite of the Disney princesses. I think mainly because she, I'm also pale. whatever, whatever you can find to relate to, right? And hey, I like a modern post-feminist take on. Like, why not? But it does seem like the, the story is so much predicated on her getting a snog off a guy. Wait, no. That sleeping beauty, what happens with Snow White? She just had the whole point is a man, a man rescues her and lots of little men rescue her and there's an, yeah. What, what else is there?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:it's a question of, I get that you want to do a modern spin on things, but also why remake the story if all you want to do is change the core elements of
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Yeah, what's the point? What's the point? Leave that artifact where it is. Do something else.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:This is the Disney model at the moment, right? It's just reshoot things. So they're reshooting a lot of films, which like Indiana Jones, the budget for that was nearly 400 million. you know, just'cause of the amount of re-shoots. And same with this film. I don't know what the budget is, but it's certainly a hugely inflated budget, which you will have no chance of making back unless it is one of the top 10 grossing films of all time.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:maybe it will be.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:may, maybe it will. I mean, nothing says success than the film that's been re-shot three times.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Well, On that note, we can, we can compare and contrast with a movie that doesn't look like there's even going to be one initial tape because I'm devastated to learn that Joaquin Phoenix has just walked off his own passion project. he approached Todd Haynes, my, one of my favorite directors, icon in gay cinema, and wanted to make a film about a gay romance with Joaquin Phoenix in the lead role. And he has now. I think it's five days into filming, has walked off the set, and that's the end of it.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:five days, before filming. I think, I
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:No, apparently, well, maybe, maybe they hadn't started filming, but he was definitely there. The man was on the ground.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:I heard he was in Los Angeles, when he said he wasn't doing it. But I think,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Okay, maybe we, I may be exaggerating, you know I like to do that for comic effect, but the point is, the film is dead, and there was a bit of controversy, kind of, you know, keeping with this topic of controversy in film, about the fact that Working Phoenix would be playing a gay character and he himself isn't gay. I mean, I have to say the fact that Todd Haynes is directing it, I think surely, you know, they wrote it together once, once Joaquin approached him with the story, and Todd Haynes loved the story, loved the concept, and they worked on it together, so I kind of think that if that is the reason why he left, which it sounds like it isn't, but he might be using that as a, as an excuse to walk away, who knows? But all I know is I'm sad about this.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:when you look at Christine Vachon, who's the producer, uh, at Killer Films that was producing it, who's done all of Todd Haynes films, she, we did a great book in the late 90s about producing in Hollywood, anyway, Christine Vachon, she, she's come out and said, you know, it was his idea, He approached us, he's been the driving force behind it. So they got all this funding together. The impression I'm getting is that this was done at some speed. I could be wrong, but, um, he kind of developed the script idea. it's not as if, Joaquin Phoenix just suddenly read the script for the first time. It was like, Oh my God, what is this? I'm not doing this. It's like, it's. He was intimately involved. And yeah, they've now got people who they need to cut checks for because sets were built. All of the heads of department were hired. You know, the whole thing's a go. So people need paying.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Okay, now I'm looking at a deadline article now, and Phoenix reportedly stormed off the set, two weeks ago, but in Mexico. So they were on set at the time. And production paused, they were hoping to get it back up and running, but now it's official. It's dead. It's over. We're not going to see this movie. And I always want to see Haynes movie and the fact that he was so excited about it. He'd been
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yeah, so they've got some stuff in the can. That's interesting. I wonder if that will ever suddenly see the light of day. So it sounds like he got cold feet once they started filming. I didn't realize that. I thought it was before they'd even set foot. So it does seem that like there was the classic creative differences once they were on set,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Yeah, it sounded like an interesting project. So it was going to be him and Danny Ramirez, who you might remember from Top Gun Maverick, playing two men in the 1930s who get into It sounds like a road trip love affair. They travel from Los Angeles to Mexico.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:a detective detective story it said as well, which sounded interesting
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:love that. Sexy, sexy gay detective story. Sounds perfect.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:And very violent apparently, lots of violence in it. So, yeah, you know, what more do you want from a trip to the cinema, you know? Hehehehe
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:guys, so, sorry, sorry that we even spoke about it really, forget that ever was an idea, it's gone, it's over. But, we do have three films that were made, and you can watch.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:What a
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:that a good, was that a good segway? No, I think, segways have never been my strong suit. I think everyone listening knows that. But moving on swiftly, this week We thought, as it's coming to the end of August, and I think we can all agree, it's been a bit of a rough summer. In the UK, it's been rainy, it's been cold, we've barely seen any sunshine. On the continent, it's been a heatwave, it's been unbearable. And I'm not even going to get into the politics that have been, like, the global politics is just an absolute shitshow. So With that in mind, we thought, why not kind of lean into it and talk about some movies where people are sad. Sad girls on holiday. Sad girls on holiday.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:I was watching these films, the genre of film I was watching just seemed to slowly materialize. Like, oh it's Sad Girls on Holiday, I think. I was trying to think of, have I seen films like this where it's a sad guy? And I, I'm sure there are, but none sprang off, uh, sprang out of my head. So please let us know if there are sad boys on holiday.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:well apart from Bill Murray, of course,
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Sorry. Yes. Within this film. Yeah, yeah,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:because that's a little hint. This week we're going to be talking about Lost in Translation, Swimming Pool, and Shirley Valentine. So yeah, predominantly solo ladies. But there is also a sad solo man. So
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:But I would, I would argue though, that Bill Murray's certainly the, the big actor, the star actor in Lost in Translation, but it feels like the film pivots. Well, it's equally balanced, I guess you are right. But, I feel like I was following Scarlett Johansson's character a bit more than I was Bill Murray's.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Really? I kind of felt like it was built a bit more tipped towards Bill Murray actually. It's probably even in who you're relating to on the, on any given watch perhaps.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yeah.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Well, I mean we're diving right in, but but shall we start with swimming pool? Cause I was feeling we should start with the most bleak and depressing and kind of move our way up to the, to finish on a feel good note.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yeah, absolutely. That works for me, yes. Um, So yeah, it was very mysterious, this swimming pool film. I think maybe I'd seen a poster for it, but I didn't really know much about it. And, it certainly seems to have been, you know, you had to really dig it down into the internet to extract a copy of it. It wasn't easy to find.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Yeah. So I watched it a year ago on Mubi. and I think I have seen it sort of about, it's definitely been on iPlayer before, but right now, hopefully, yeah, it's it's really hard to track down, which is a shame because it's, I think it's worth a watch.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:and it is one of these things that we, that is starting to happen with streaming is what we call digital black holes. So it's like, well, if you want to watch, if a swim pool is a film you quite like and you want to watch it, there's no way you can instantly, easily watch it now. Although I guess you can buy physical media, but yeah, it's, you know, we get so used to things being just available streaming that when they're not. You know, you realize, oh, oh, right, yeah, there's, there's no guarantees any of these films are going to stay on those sites.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Yeah, I mean, I think for anyone other than very strongly identifying film buffs. I don't think anyone else has DVD players. So if it's not online, it's like going to be hard for you to find for you to watch. but yeah, so swimming pool, it was, it came out in 2003, same year as Austin translation, actually, which we may get onto. And it was co written and directed by Francoise Ozone. And it stars Charlotte Rampling as a writer, a woman called Sarah Morton, who's not exactly suffering from writer's block, but she's sick of this detective character that's made her very successful as a writer and she wants to do something different. So her publisher sends her off to his beautiful house in France where she encounters his daughter and it all goes from there really. What did you think of the film, James?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Well, I didn't know what, uh, what I was watching, really. I didn't know the kind of where it was going to, I didn't know where it was going to go, but I remember early on, I was like, oh, it's got some like thriller, unsettling music, which I wish they hadn't done that because that cued me up from the get go that this was going to go in a slightly more mysterious angle. I wish I'd been a bit more twisted, but that was, that was the only thing that cued me up really, because it was, it was looking like a fairly. straightforward drama, but then, you know, things, things kind of evolve.
Lily:Yeah. I guess we don't need to spoil it too much because actually I think for our purposes what's interesting is Charlotte Rampling's character being depressed and the action and the twist happen in the final third when she seems to be in a better mood. So it's kind of okay but you're right it's strange because The first two thirds of the film, you're very much following this character who is not very happy in general. She's kind of unkind to everyone, and particularly this woman who's arrived at her house unannounced. and it's sort of a character study of her and, and her interactions. With this girl Julie and then yeah, it kind of suddenly all changes in the final act and becomes more of a thriller But you're right. The music keeps keying you up. You're getting all nervous like what's gonna happen the music spooky And then suddenly it all goes down in the final act and it's like, oh, oh, okay. Cool. Fine. All Right,
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Right, yeah. But watching it, I, I did think that this film, Especially the first two thirds of the film, because it's, there's not a great deal in the script for Charlotte Rampling to kind of, you know, as far as the words that she speaks, it's more her expressions, it's more the vibe, you know, this is very much a vibe film, along with Lost in Translation, I think, it's more about the atmosphere, and so it's a lot of her walking around, it's a lot of her just kind of taking things in. And I think it needed to be somebody like Charlotte Rampling who can do, who's got some kind of gravitas when she's not even saying anything.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Yeah, totally, totally. But I was really kind of entranced by this character, because she's so good at being really, really uptight and repressed. You know, she's, she's so stiff. There's this bit where she's dancing with Julie towards the end of the film. And it's the most amazing, awkward dance you've ever seen. Like you, it literally makes you want to crawl up inside yourself and die. It's like so awkward. But even before we get to that kind of, that was almost like, the nadir. And then, and then we move up again. And finally she loosens up after she kind of expels all her ness in this crazy dance. But before all of that, from the get go, she's so kind of rude with people so unfriendly. And the thing I was really into was the fact that she doesn't really eat real food. She just eats huge quantities of yogurt most nights and occasionally like a dessert and Coca-Cola. She's sort of doesn't want to treat herself exactly like she doesn't want to be kind to herself. She wants to be as practical and quick as possible. But then every so often she can't cope with it anymore. And she needs to indulge. So she needs to eat those profiteroles. She, you know what I mean? She needs that hit of sugar.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:picked up on that. Yeah,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:That was because, because then when the minute Julie goes out, she's bought that nice food. She can't resist. She has to eat some of that foie gras and the sausages that Julie bought. And, and sort of simile this. that a big part of the film is kind of a sexual thriller, psychosexual thriller is that she's kind of fascinated by Julie having sex all the time and her kind of promiscuity. And it's kind of the same thing, right? Of her. She's so uptight, repressed and like, doesn't seem to have any, you know, doesn't date or have relationships. And there's this girl who every night is bringing about a different guy and clearly loves sex. And she's like fascinated by it. until the final third, I was just really into just being in this beautiful location. They're in this amazing house in France with as the time suggests, the swimming pool. And you're just watching this woman. you know, she's come here to escape so she can focus on her writing and instead she encounters this, this young woman who's the opposite of her. You know, she's so, she could not be more different from her and it's making her kind of face up to all her neuroses basically.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:yeah, absolutely. I was more engaged with the character study part of it. And then it kind of became like a lot, I don't know, there's a lot of French filmmakers love Alfred Hitchcock. So it became a kind of, you know, a Hitchcock esque little thriller towards the end.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:And then it goes, it just ruins it. The ending ruins everything. I, I, I, like, we won't say what the ending is, but how did you feel about the ending, James?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:like, you know, it's like along the lines of it was all a dream,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Exactly! I literally wanted to kill, I wanted to kill, Flan's ass. I was on in that moment. I was like, what have you done? You've just spent all this time creating these really intricate and interesting characters and you're trying to tell me like, fuck it. Like, I don't want to spoil it too much, but I just like, yeah. Cause for me, the character study bit was the best bit. And then we get into this crazy, you were right, Hitchcockian thing at the end and then, oh, nevermind. That's not real anyway. Fuck off. What are you doing to me?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:I'm glad it wasn't just me. I was, ah, yeah, just cheap. Cheapened it all a
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Well, the funny thing was, right, I, I said I watched it last year. I, I didn't remember. I didn't remember the final act at all. I didn't remember anything other than, yeah, this character study element, the fact that Charlotte Rampling is this cold like complex character. And then there's this young, sexy girl who comes in, who kind of shakes her up. And, uh, it's almost like my mind chose to just like, forget the final half an hour because, like, come on, it doesn't work for me. So I still enjoyed it this time. I think, as long as you don't know about that rubbish ending, it's a great movie.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:There we go. Stop before the third act. That's our advice. Soak up the vibes. If you want, just imagine it's like the chief. Is it the head sister of the Bene Gesserit having a holiday? There you go.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:my god, I forgot she was the
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yeah, she's just taking a bit of time out, having a two week's annual leave. Then she's going to go back plotting the creation of the Ikezak Sadara.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Yeah, perfect, perfect. Okay, well, should we, should we move on to Lost in Translation?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yes, the only one of these two that I've seen before. I mean, it's a bit of a classic, isn't it, really? I think if anyone's got even an inkling of an interest in films in general, I think this is one of the ones most people have seen.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Yeah, you've probably seen it, but we'll still give you a quick overview just in case came out in 2003 As I said, Same as Swimming Pool, directed by Sophia Coppola. We've had a real run of Coppola. We've had two, two Frances Fords and now a Sophia. that's nepotism for you. and it stars Bill Murray as Bob Harris, a kind of fading actor. Successful, Scott Johansson plays Charlotte, this very young, married woman, and they're both staying in the same hotel in Tokyo, feeling a little bit disconnected from the world, a bit lost. I mean, it's a perfect title, you know. They say that a good film title needs to have some irony in it. And it really, it does It It nails it.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:it's spot on.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Um, yeah. And, yeah. This film was an absolute smash hit. I think the budget was four million. But it made a hundred and ninety, nearly a hundred and twenty million at the box office. It's pretty good for an indie movie,
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yep.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:again nepotism, but it's a fantastic movie. I think watching it again, I was like, this is, it's not original, but it's definitely one of my favorite films. It's again, vibes film, vibes all the
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yeah. Vibes film. I mean, very different from a film that her dad might make, this is like a very small, very improvised feeling, character study, low budget, it's very much the opposite of what dad does, but exceptionally well done.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:And I guess that's the secret, isn't it? To being a successful nepo baby. It's to go into the same field, but do your own thing. Plow your own field.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yeah. And, and there was, it was interesting to see how she got, um, Bill Murray on board. she could spend a year trying to persuade him because I don't know if you know how you get Bill Murray on board for a project,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:You phone his, uh, his, his line. He doesn't, yeah, he fired his agent like 20 years ago or something, didn't he? Yeah,
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:You basically give you a picture guess onto his answer phone. And if he likes the idea of it, get us back
James:in touch. was saying that she didn't know until, she wasn't sure until he actually turned up on set whether he was going to do it. It all sounded a little bit, with a, with a, wing and a prayer.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:he, he's a man of his word. He came and, and made this film. And, It's interesting, right? Because I think this film really, uh, to me sums up that saying, uh, wherever you go, there you are, or I'm paraphrasing slightly. I was trying to look at where that phrase originates from. And some people say Confucius, but others say that's bullshit. But anyway,
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:I've never even heard that
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:you've never heard that phrase. Wherever you go, there you are. I think it whenever I feel a bit down when I'm on holiday.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Oh, okay.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:that's kind of the thing is that, you know, we go on holiday to escape and to escape whatever is we're feeling down about, right? The idea is you go somewhere new, exciting, that's completely different. And it will give you a chance to feel like a new person or have a change. But often I think what happens is rather than Distracting you when you're away from the, day to day habits and monotony of your life. In fact, all you're left with is yourself and your thoughts. And that's when you have to really face all the issues that you have. I think that is the through line in these movies. Because I think that's kind of, for the first two acts at least, what's happening in swimming pool with Charlotte Rampling's character, you know, whoever this Julie character is. it brings to the fore these neuroses that are in her mind that maybe she wasn't having to think about when she was at home looking after her mother and writing her detective novels. And in Lost in Translation, Bill Murray and Scott Johansson's characters, they both have got a lot of dissatisfaction in their life. They're feeling very disconnected from their partners. And then they come to Tokyo, a place where they don't speak the language. It's very different from. The country they're from and so they feel even more disconnected and more lost and more isolated and it's only when they find each other and this is where we start to get into more optimistic territory that they start to connect and then connect with the people around them and actually start to enjoy Tokyo and appreciate how amazing it is in the city.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:I love that. I love that sequence where they both kind of sneak off for a night out, you know, and they go kind of clubbing and then they kind of get a taxi back. You know, it just, the, the way that it's shot, it feels kind of like you're in the moment with them. It feels like excitement of just kind of in a new city, going for a bit of a wild night out. You know, it really captures that feeling very well.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Yeah, it does. And I feel like that karaoke scene, the pinnacle of that night out is them ending up with these friends of Charlotte's, Scott Johansson's character in a karaoke bar. And it is definitely the fantasy of what karaoke is. I mean, the reality of karaoke is everyone's screaming at the top of their lungs. singing together. And if one person sings on their own, everyone finds them a little bit obnoxious and annoying and don't care for their choice. But in this, everyone is given their turn. It's sort of, you know, metaphorical for how they're feeling. when Scott Johansson sings beautifully, Brass in Pocket, The flirtation between them is starting to, fizzle.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yeah,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:a, it's a perfect scene and I, I can only dream that my karaoke nights are like that, but I, I know that they never are.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:think the film really captured that, that ennui feeling you might have when you are on holiday, which is meant to be this exciting adventure, but you actually feel quite sad and lonely. I mean, most of my holidaying and travel is by myself, so I experienced it quite a lot. And I like that. I like kind of that you have this kind of slightly sad, lonely time somewhere else with yourself, you know, you just have to hang out and hey. You know, yeah, you feel a bit lost and isolated, but let's work through this and let's just enjoy that feeling whilst we're somewhere else. I don't know, to me, that's a holiday.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:James that is why we are friends because we both like to Indulge in melancholy feelings from time to time because I know I know what you mean I remember once I was very sad and depressed on a holiday I was in Chamonix which is a very beautiful French town in the Alps. Well, you've got the Alps all around you. But I was there in, in the summer, kind of en route back from a rather challenging trip to Italy. I won't divulge the details, but the point is I was in a swimming pool, having just cried, looking up at the, Alps and I got to really indulge that God to be so sad and such a beautiful place.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:we're such tortured souls, aren't we? You know,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:It was very much. It was very snow white going, Oh, Oh no.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:One of my magical creatures can help me
Lily:Literally, it was definitely of that vibe. So yeah, I know what you mean. There is something, it feels like you're really at your most core human emotional self, right? When you're just like. It's just purely feeling the feels, you know, be they happy or sad when you're just with yourself, you know, so god It's indulgent as fuck. But that's yeah, if you're into that kind of thing This movie is definitely it because that yeah, you're right just perfectly captures that kind of vibe. I think like it's so different from Hans Fogh Coppola's films. The plot is so minor There really isn't much plot all those scenes Could be switched and it wouldn't make any difference. and so it's mainly just long, long shots of them going about their days and they just hold for a long, long time. And so, yeah, you're just, you're just very much there with their emotions
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:And apparently there wasn't much of a script. It was quite a loose, quite a thin script. And it feels like that, because it feels like, well, there's a lot of comedy improvisation there, and you know, if it didn't have Bill Murray, then it wouldn't be as funny a film as it is, because he's throwing in clearly a lot of improv and a lot of kind of humour just all the way through it, which didn't feel like it was scripted. It did feel like he was improvising, which gives it a nice naturalistic, documentary, kind of you're almost there feel to it.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Yeah, totally. and speaking of, I thought something, it's very interesting, watching it this time. And, the first thing I think, the first shot of the film is a, iconic close up of Scott Johansson's bum and some like, sheer knickers. And my thought was like, God, why does this film start like this? It makes no sense. It's got no narrative. You know, you have to really think what, first of all, James,
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:dads! Something for the dads!
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:what you think it is? Well,
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:meaning. That was just for the lols for the dads, you know,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:what I thought was quite interesting, right, was that, having done a bit of cursory Googling, I learn is like, has, has, has sparked so much critical debate amongst film scholars. You know, what is the meaning of the bum shot?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:right?
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:and apparently Scarlett Johansson, I mean, bloody hell, she was only 17 in this film, which is like definitely a weird vibe, very strange. and also baffling cause she's playing a recent graduate from university who's been married for two years. So I'm like, how old is she meant to be? You know? The other part of the film that has, that causes so much debate is the very, final scene when Bill Murray and, and Scott Johansson are reunited for a moment, kind of on the streets of Tokyo. And they finally hug having not really had that much physical contact throughout the film, even though they do seem to kind of have a somewhat romance. I mean, it's amazing. I love it. It's almost like an anti love story, right? Because they're kind of friends, but there's a bit of a vibe, but that, and I feel like that's so true. That's so true of life. It's so opposite rom com, you know,
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:it's it's yet another film that shows the horror of monogamy ruining another potential romantic relationship
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:is it, or is it, I mean, I think it is definitely a film about monogamy because it's a film about the, the proliferation. of affairs, you know, it's, it's impossible to stay monogamous and never have any kind of emotional affair. I think, sorry, sorry, mom and dad, maybe not impossible, but it's certainly a challenge.
but the point is, in this final scene, when they hug and Bill whispers something into Clara's ear, it's been this ongoing thing, almost like a conspiracy theory about the film.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:What is it that he's saying? And there have been these videos have been posted on YouTube where they've enhanced the audio and then they've put subtitles over, but there's still a lot of debate. I So far I could find like four different translations. One is I have to be leaving, but I won't let that come between us. Okay. Or tell him the truth. Okay. Or, when John is ready for his next business trip, go up to that man and tell him the truth, okay? Okay, so all variations. Or,
promise me That the next thing you do is go up to that man and tell him the truth. So there are all these different ideas about what this quote is. So much emphasis has been put on that. But in interviews, when Sophia Copp has been asked about it, she said to herself, Well, I'd never figured out what that final line would be. In the script, it was blank and I was going to add it in later, but just never got around to it. So in the end, they'll marry Adlip, the quote. So I, I don't know, and she isn't really that bothered about it. And similarly, the bum shot wasn't planned either. That isn't in the script. It was just something that Sofia Coppola came up with at the end. And in both cases, she's kind of saying, well, I, you know, I don't really know. It's whatever you want it to be. I'm not really trying to say something specific or hugely significant with either.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:And I, I quite like that. I like that, we can call it the bum shot and be kind of cavalier about it, but it's ultimately just a very beautiful, beautiful shot. There's this thing in the film where everyone moves quite slowly, right? Johansson's character is kind of language and a little bit sleepy and you know, it kind of seems like, you know, she's just feeling a bit down and that's manifesting in how she moves and Bill Murray's character's kind of the same. And there's also this slowness to that scene. You know, initially you think it's a still. And then suddenly she kind of moves and she's clearly kind of getting up after having a nap or something. So you're right, it does set a nice kind of vibey tone.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Maybe as well. She's asleep in that shot that we see at the moment. It's somebody rousing from slumber and the whole film has that, like we saying, it got a slowness to it. There's a dreamlike quality. It's almost like this is a dream of a romance that happens when you are in, in, Tokyo.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:You know what's funny, right? It's the first time I watched this movie, I think I was about 17. And I absolutely loved it, but I remembered it up until I watched it again a few years ago. As a film about platonic connection,
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Mm-Hmm.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:I didn't see it as a romance whatsoever. And I remember even watching seeing a clip of an interview of Bill Murray, where he talks about this film being about, you know, finding connections with people when you're in other relationships and you know, what do You do about that? How do you proceed? And me thinking, God, Bill Murray, what a perv. He's projecting, he's reading that into the film and that's not what it's about at all. When clearly, that for me, that was what I was reading into. I was like, I don't want to think of this as a 17 year old and a 50 something year old man, getting together. I'm going to see it as something completely platonic.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:friends hanging out.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:But there is something, okay, you know, yes, this is part of a long lineage of movies about older men and younger women, but I do love the fact that it is really a, their connection is, is friendship and, and something, a little less like cut and dry than like the romances of most movies.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yeah. Yeah.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:more complex portrayal because I feel like that is much more true to life of how, connections often are romantic connections. Like it's there a bit, but then there's other stuff around it, you know?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:It reminded me a little bit of, uh, the worst person in the world, the party scene where the, she meets the guy and they do this thing where they get as close as they can do without technically cheating. Don't they? And it's, it's, it's not quite that intensity in this film, but it's, it's that kind of thing, isn't it? It's the we've not done anything technically wrong, but you know, it's is it an emotional affair?
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:And speaking of affairs, should we move on to Shirley Valentine?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Oh, yes, I have to confess, Lou, this has been on my list of films I never wanted to watch ever. Let me give you my reasons for it. They're nothing to do with the quality of the film. Yeah, I can see, but just let, let me just explain myself here is that the time period that it was made in 89, I just remember 1989 so well, just from being a kid. And I just didn't like the eighties. I didn't like the late eighties. It was a grim, miserable time. And I didn't like the fashion, the hairstyle didn't like any of it. And so Shirley Valentine for me represents the ultimate film that was made in 89 that reflects 89. I wanted to escape from reality. I wanted to watch Indiana Jones at the cinema in the eighties. So this Just represents for me. I don't want to experience the eighties English working class eight. I was just like, no, no, no, no, no. So those are my reasons for strongly avoiding it.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:So you are basically Shirley Valentine about Shirley Valentine. Because she wants, all she wants to do is escape the working class northern 80s. Which, I, watching this film I somehow thought that it had been made in 1978. And when, when it was brought to my attention by James that it was the late 80s instead I literally could not believe it because it feels so real. Oh, long ago. It's like such a completely different world. It's amazing.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:like watching, It just, it just jangles all my nerves. I don't like, the eighties. I didn't like, didn't like being there and living through it, so, so watching it, and it's very well recreated. That's exactly what it, looked like. The kitchen, the house, the production design, it's all spot on, but like, it just took me back, Lily, in a way that I didn't enjoy.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Oh, really? So you were having a bad time watching Shirley Valentine? I thought you'd have loved it, honestly.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:having said that, now I've watched it, I have to say there's nothing at all, you know, all of my aversion to watching it was nothing to do with the actual film itself. It was more to do with what it was representing for me personally. So sitting through the film, I actually say I was pleasantly surprised at how good it was.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Oh my God. Thank God. Well, yeah. So Shirley Valentine, as we said, made in 1989, directed by Lewis Gilbert. And it was written by Willie Russell, who he's already on my radar because when I was growing up, my mom made me watch Educating Rita, which was his other screenplay. Both, both these films were originally, Plays and then were adapted for the cinema after being big hits and I don't remember thinking this with Educating Rita, which is by the way an amazing film guys strongly recommend Michael Caine at his best But in this film you can really feel that it was a playwright. it's so a play She kind of she's talking to the camera for a lot of it. She breaks the fourth wall and and she's and you can, you can feel that this started as a play. But once you get into that, because initially when that started I found it a bit, a bit kind of just combobulating, you
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yeah. A one, one woman play. It's meant, obviously when you go see the play, it's just Shirley Valentine. Mono, it's a monologue.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:And yeah, you can really tell. But once you kind of settle into the cadence of the film, becomes brilliant, I think. I think it's an amazing movie, actually.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:before we get too into the weeds of the film, I'd just like to just a quick, quick quiz, Lily. Um, can you name the other film by Lewis Gilbert that we've discussed on this podcast?
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Oh
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Don't you go clicking, Don't you go clicking, Just, you got, you got, just for fun. I
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:he
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:the hand, I can see the hand. Just, just for fun. Let's go for fun. And then,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:can you ask me a couple of questions? Can, can I ask you a question? Couple of questions. Is it a British, is it a British film? British, cast. British set.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yes, but it's more it's a British made film, but it's international in scope. Nope,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:in scope. Christ Alive. What is it? What did it come out in the nineties, late seventies. Ooh, what have we talked about from the late seventies? That's international in scope.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:You know what I'll do, Lily? I'll give you, I'll, I'm going to do your, I'm going to quote your quote from the film itself.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Okay. Hahaha Is that Moonraker? Oh my god. Wow. Wow.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:You
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Many strings to Lewis
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:You gotta say, you can do big action films, even though Spy Love Me is my favourite, which he also directed. Moonraker's one of the weaker ones. But Yeah. but also you can do like, kind of dramas.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:The connection I see, the correlation I see is that both films are funny. I think he's good at directing comedy. Do you think? That's all I can say about Moon mind you, I don't know if Moonwreck is almost meaning to be funny.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Moonraker is a kind of a mixture of unintentionally funny. I don't think they set out to make it as ridiculous as it was. But, but what I think I, I, never saw him as a comedy director. I think he just got a good light touch. I think he can, and clearly going from like the Spiral of Moonraker to something like this. He's clearly got a lot of range, you know, so.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Well, anyway, back to Charlie Ballantyne, we should probably explain why, why this is another sad girl movie. So basically this story follows this woman with the best name in the world, Shirley Valentine. Well, that's her OG name. She is, married to a man whose name is Bradshaw, I believe. and she's really unhappy. It's so, it's so like encapsulates a particular time until quite recently in the UK because she's a, a homemaker you know, she doesn't have a job and she just spends her day basically talk literally talking to the wall. She's talking to the wall. The men, they're very subtle with their last words in this movie. And um, and she's really unhappy and she always wanted to travel and instead she dropped out of school. She was kind of made to feel like she would never amount to anything. Teachers really didn't believe in her at school and, and she always felt that she was lacking. And it's funny because it's really what's so great about the film is the characterization of Shirley, who's played by Pauline Collins. she's she's such an amazing cool woman, like you want to be friends with her. She's super funny. She's super kind of this big personality, but not in like an annoying way. She's just like got, she's got it, you know, she's got something. And yet she hasn't achieved, well I don't want to say she hasn't achieved much, but she feels very unfulfilled by her life because she really wanted to travel and explore the world and she hasn't had the chance to do that. And encounters all these women around her who she feels probably think that they're superior to her because she herself feels inferior. And so she basically just doesn't really like herself. And then this film, she basically says, fuck you, because her husband is abusive and leaves him and goes for a two week holiday in Greece. That's all it is, a two week holiday. She's going to come back to him, but that is enough to kind of give her the chance to really find herself and decide that she likes
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:you know.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:So what did you think of it, James, once you got over the, um, how triggering it was?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:yeah, once, well, I never quite got over it. There was everything. I was like, Oh, bloody hell. Those hairstyles. Oh my. Oh,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:The hair was amazing. when she jumps in the water and she's got big wet hair, like a shaggy dog, it's amazing. Sorry, carry on.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:I really enjoyed everything. I thought it slowed down for me. Once we got to Greece, I really enjoyed the build up, um, which I, I think if they were making it now, they'd probably get them to Greece much quicker, but I like the fact that we spent a lot of time establishing the kind of, the life that Shirley Valentine has and the fact that it's not quite worked out for an, I didn't realise there was going to be like flashbacks and there's different scenes, so, as much as it's very clear it was a one person play, they've done their best to kind of broaden it out and to kind of give it a bit of scale.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Yeah, I mean, Alison Steadman playing her feminist friend and Joanna Lumley in there as well. You know, they've done good things with the cast. Tom Conti playing a Greek, a sexy Greek man she has an affair with. Interesting accent.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Alba Einstein himself from Oppenheimer, it's Tom Conti.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:I think of him as Elizabeth's dad and friends. So we've all got, we've all got our Tom Conti and he was also the dad in Wimbledon. Do you remember that? Yeah, Tom Conti, A Scottish man with Italian roots playing a Greek man called Costas. Sure. It
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:It was the 80s, you know, he
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:was the 80s.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:he could do.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:did Greeks differently then. yeah, I, yeah,
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:but how old were you when you first saw this? Is this a film you saw when you were younger or is this more you came to as an adult?
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:no, no, this is my first time watching it too. I'd seen Educating Rita and I, you know, it was kind of on my radar because of that. but I'd never, I basically, I shoehorned it. I really wanted to watch it. So we, here we are, here
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:it. was interesting reading about Willie Russel's writing process cause he said, For the first time writing it, it was almost like, he said it must be like a method actor. Acting is that he just started thinking like Shirley Valentine and so He would stay in his mind in character, Shirley Valentine, while he was talking to his neighbors and his friends. Cause he said, Shirley Valentine was much wittier and funnier than he is. And so he, so he adopted that persona and he kept, and he said that when he tried coming out of the he couldn't write Shirley Valentine anymore. So he said for the process of writing the script, he was Shirley Valentine. Then when they performed the one woman play uh, cause they didn't have much money when they first staged it, he actually was the understudy to the female actress playing Shirley Valentine. Cause he just figured, well. He's now, who's going to one member of cast, they just need to not get ill. But she did end up in hospital and the show had become a sellout. It'd become a huge success, but then she got hospitalized step in for one night. But he actually did like nearly two weeks, I think, or at least a full week of him on stage as Shirley Valentine.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:I mean, the optics are terrible. This is a play about a working class woman and, and this guy comes in and plays a part, but I love that. That's so cool.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:plays in a, in a, in a suit, you know, he's not trying to pretend that he is Shirley Valentine. It's more a reading cause he's not an actor. So it was very interesting. Apparently he got some good notices for it.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:That's amazing. I love that. just the same as with Educating Rita.
Both these movies are about women who have amazing personalities and are very intelligent, but haven't been given the opportunities to do all the things that they could do and want to do. But then they find a way to do this themselves through each of these films. Um, be it through higher education as with Educating Research or with a holiday and a holiday romance as it is with Shirley Valentine.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:you know, it's, it's so cool that she, does have sex with Costas. She does cheat on her husband, And and of course, you know. a few people are a bit shocked about that in the film, but it's, the film isn't judging her for it. It's not the biggest deal. It's not really what the film is about. And also She doesn't end up with him. The film really isn't about him. It's very much just about herself. It's amazingly contemporary film because it really isn't preachy. There's this feminist character that I said, the Arsene Stubman plays. And you know, she's got this very strong stance on men and what, what's right and wrong. And then she turns out to be a really rubbish friend to Shirley. And Shirley herself is like, oh, I'm not a feminist, you know. She doesn't identify with that, you know. Again, late, late 80s, different attitude to it. But I like that the film shows her going on her own journey. That is quite, quite, interesting. Feminist. The film is very feminist, but without being like, overtly politicized, it's a lot more kind of just like normal, normal people finding happiness that I quite like,
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:And I think at the end, I mean, is she just going to go back with her husband? They left it at least a little bit open. Like there was possibly a question mark. I w I would hope not. Please don't do it Shirley.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:I've got to believe that she's, like she's, she's so well embedded in that cafe she's working at, you know, the, the tourists need their egg and chips. So I hope not. God, It's amazing isn't it? Cause if that, if that scene at the start of him putting the egg and chips in her lap, like that is just, that is abuse. And I mean, for that to be, you know, Just the thing that could, the catalyst for her to leave, but then, you know, she's, she hasn't left him or whatever. It's like really, you know, contextualizes that film in a particular time period, doesn't it? How things have changed. It's kind of
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:And I. and and also at the end, you know, the power dynamic has shifted. You know, he, he sits down to share a drink with Shirley, the husband? who's come to Greece to visit her. So any, you know, he's a stooped man. He's clearly got no power in, in this relationship anymore. I think, I think that's the kind of final note, isn't it. That she's kind of reclaimed authority over her own life to an extent. So I think she's dictating the terms now that he's come to see her and he sits at her table.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:Yeah, I mean overall a very uplifting film. I'm glad Shirley Valentine her happiness
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Yeah, and I'm glad, I'm glad that she doesn't just go back home at the end of the two weeks. I was like, please let it have something more interesting at the end, which it did. So that was good.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:But what a heartbreaking thing to watch now, post Brexit. We can't just go on holiday for two weeks and then decide to stay.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:God, oh, you brought with crashing back down to
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:I'm sorry. Sad girls on holiday. I'm always sad now when I'm on holiday because I know I have to go back.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:cannot stay no more. God damn it.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:no Okay, I'm sorry. Well, on that note, we have a very fitting film pharmacy entry. Hi Lily and James, the summer in Britain has been crap. Any film recommendations for when the next downpour inevitably strikes to help me forget about this gloomy island? Thanks, a soggy listener.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:The, first thing that comes to my mind just because it's rain themed, but also a beat is singing in the, rain. A favorite of mine. Now that, that lifts my spirits. I feel like I might've given that as an answer before the film pharmacy, but that's my immediate response. I
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:You might have done and we have also discussed it on the podcast. I know it's tricky because all the ones that came to my mind, you know, call me by your name. That's all I can think of off the top of my head right now. But there are a few that came to mind were all ones that we had already discussed in the podcast. So I was
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Oh no, we're doing, we're doing too many episodes Zilli. We've got to the point now where we're,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:I know, we need to watch more movies, but it came to me just before we started recording. My suggestion is Orlando, the 1992 film by Sally Potter. Um, have you seen that movie?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:It was a very, very influential film for me when I was getting to filmmaking, there was like Peter Greenaway, who was inspiration. And one night I saw Orlando, which, um, yeah, similarly to Peter Greenaway's work, uh, opened my mind to the potential of cinema. I rewatched it recently as well, a couple of years ago,
Lily:I, love it. Similarly, I was advised to watch it at university and it really was BAM! Amazing. eye opening So, it's based on Virginia Woolf's novel, um, from 1928. Also a very good novel, would recommend that. Wilde's story, but in the film adaptation Tilda Swinton plays the titular Orlando, who's basically a man who lives for 400 years and turns into a woman halfway through. And Billy Zane is her like hot, sexy bit of eye candy. That's literally his function in the film, is just to look pretty. And Quentin Criss plays Queen So I mean, all, it's literally like Queer Nirvana, it's like perfection and not just because of the casting but because because we're going through these 400 years You get these incredible sets incredible costumes. It's pure escapism but also it is like stimulating like it doesn't feel like you're watching crap, even though it's just Such a pleasurable watch. So that's an escape for you from time and space, as well as like, current location, if you know what I mean. You know, we're going back in time. We're not just going, going warmer.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:I like it. I like it. An interesting choice. I think I'm going to then offer up, um, an alternative, which is just more, let's just go for straight out comedy. If it's gloomy, let's just go for lol. So I'm going to, you know, a bit of it. It's a very, very obvious choice, but you know what? I rewatched it. for the first time in years. And I had a hoot, uh, Austin Powers, international man of mystery. There we go. It will transport you, transport you back to the sixties, transport you back to the nineties, it will take you away from your problems here and now.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:you think Orlando and Austin Powers would be friends?
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:There's a question I never thought I'd be asked. I did it. I mean, shall we shag now or shall we shag later in the middle ages?
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:I think, I think, yeah, I think as sexual partners, I can see it. I don't know about
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Well, on that note,
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:That's my, that's my take on the subject. Okay, well, this was our penultimate episode for the series. Next week is our finale, So guys, get excited. It's going to be special. We've got some big plans to discuss the things we're excited about, so you'll know what to look out for in the next couple of months.
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:And if you could leave us a like or a five star review, we would really appreciate it. It helps get the podcast out to a wider audience.
S4 E14 SAD GIRLS ON HOLIDAY_LILY:So we'll see you in two weeks time. Bye!
James Mic S4 Sad Girls:Bye.
Sorry mom, sorry mom and dad, but the point is, in this final scene, when they hug and Bill whispers something into Clara's ear, it's been this ongoing thing, almost like a conspiracy theory about the film. And there have been these videos that have been posted on YouTube where they've enhanced the audio and then put subtitles over the top, but there's still some debate about what is being said in these videos. Some people think that it's one of us. One is, I have to be leaving, but I won't let that come between us, okay? And one is, Tell him the truth, okay? And one is, when John is ready for his next business trip, go up to that man and tell him the truth. And another is, promise me that the next thing you do is go up to that man and tell him the truth. So there are all these different ideas about what this quote is. So much emphasis has been put on that. But in interviews, when Sophia Copp has been asked about it, she said to herself, Well, I'd never figured out what that final line would be. In the script, it was blank and I was going to add it in later, but just never got around to it. So in the end, they'll marry Adlip, the quote. So I, I don't know, and she isn't really that bothered about it. And similarly, the bum shot wasn't planned either. That isn't in the script. It was just something that Sofia Coppola came up with at the end. And in both cases, she's kind of saying, well, I, you know, I don't really know. It's whatever you want it to be. I'm not really trying to say something specific or hugely significant with either. That's amazing. I love that. Both these movies are about women who have amazing personalities and are very intelligent, but haven't been given the opportunities to do all the things that they could do and want to do. But then they find a way to do this themselves through each of these films. Um, be it through higher education as with Educating Research or with a holiday and a holiday romance as it is with Shirley Valentine. And I love that, you know, it's so cool that she, she does have sex with Kostas. That's amazing, I love that. And, you know what, that's what I love about this movie. And, that's amazing, I love that. And you know what I love is that both these movies are about northern women who have incredible personalities and are really intelligent, but haven't been given the opportunities to achieve the things they want to achieve or have the adventures they want to have in life, but, but find the way to do that themselves, you know, whether it be through higher education and educating Rita or with a holiday and a holiday romance as it is with Shirley Ballantyne. And, you know, I'm so glad that she has sex with Costas. That really, And you know, it's so cool that she does have sex with Kostov.