Groovy Movies

Action Women, schwing (Point Break, American Psycho, Wayne’s World)

• Lily Austin and James Brailsford • Season 4 • Episode 15

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This week on our season finale we look at three box office and critical successes which you might not know were directed by women. In the hot seat is Kathryn Bigelow’s Point Break, Penelope Spheeris’ Wayne’s World and Mary Harron’s American Psycho. We also almost (but not quite) dodge the Blake Lively controversy and talk about the films we’re looking forward to this autumn. See you for season 5!

References
‘Warner Brothers to put a studio in the dessert’, by Brian Welk, indiewire.com
‘How American Psycho became a feminist statement’ by Trey Taylor, dazeddigital.com
Penelope Spheeris on Wayne’s World, Pat Saperstein, Variety.com
‘Point Break is a feminine perspective on toxic masculinity’, laineygossip.com

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Edited and produced by Lily Austin and James Brailsford
Original music by James Brailsford

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Lily:

It's literally heat on surfboards Welcome to Groovy Movies. My name is Lily Austin.

James:

Schwing! She's a babe and my name's James Brailsford.

Lily:

Very good, very good. Nice, nice alluding to what's coming in this episode.

James:

I've been, I've been saving my break from the format. I've been saving it for an occasion. I thought this is the time.

Lily:

Because this is actually our, our final episode of the series, guys. Thank you for sticking with us through series four.

James:

it's been a bit of a change up for us trying to get this Uh, well, fortnightly release schedule going. So thank you for sticking with us. We've, we've got some ideas when we come back, how we might change things up again.

Lily:

Yeah, I'm excited about it. And actually some of the films that we're talking about today, perhaps may return in a later series, but I'll, we'll say no more about it yet. It's still, we're still in production hell. That's right. We're still in the production phase of the next series.

James:

There we go. There we go. Well,

Lily:

kick off with the, with the main body of the episode, as it were. James, I know that you've been dying to talk to me about the recent Blake Lively controversy around her new film, It Ends With Us. But we're thinking maybe we should sidebar that particular controversy, Latest Cancellation, right?

James:

it's interesting how, even though I've got no interest, I say that, we all love a bit of juicy goss, but in general, juice, just like none, nothing to do with the actual making of the film, like more just tittle tattle interpersonal stuff usually doesn't interest me, but it's interesting how I couldn't avoid it because YouTube still recommends me videos to do with it. Yeah. With the issue, and then the resolution of the issue, it seems that basically Blake Lively was a bit shitty to a journalist a few years ago, and I think now, that same journalist has re interviewed them, so I suspect the narrative arc is they're now besties or something, I don't know, but all I know is I can't avoid it, even on my YouTube feed.

Lily:

Yeah, it feels a bit Johnny Depp, Amber Heard, She's like a gristle for the gossip mill, but that on social media, you just can't avoid. I keep seeing. hot takes on Instagram when I, I honestly have not, like, I think shown any interest I'm not really aware of the film that this kind of all came out from, because you know, but I was in this new film, It Ends With Us. I never read that book. I know it's a big deal for fans of the book and people love it. it's weird because it's been so successful, but anyway. We're now, we are actually getting into the conversation, which we had made a very distinct decision not to discuss.

James:

we've talked about how, how we're fed up. We're not getting into this. Instead, we're going to bring you the good stuff. what I'd like to start doing is start giving you the tasty, more sorts of news that I often send you, but that we don't talk about. And then they end up becoming a big news story like bloody Barbenheimer. And it's all well and good to say, Hey, we were talking about it. We didn't put it on the pod. So I think this is decent enough to put on the pod. Might not mean much right now.

Lily:

Okay, before we get into that, can I just say, there is a link, I think, with Barbenheimer. You mentioned how, well, we discussed how it could have been, the story could have been, oh, it's interesting that it ends with us, but obviously the movie has toppled or is competing with Wolverine, Deadpool, Wolverine, Deadpool and Wolverine. Um, uh, which is a film with her husband, Ryan Reynolds. And there was a big mess with them not releasing it on the same day. Could have been a fun Barbenheimer married couple fighting it out thing. Hasn't happened in years.

James:

She does have a cameo and dead pull em. INE spoilers, but.

Lily:

Mrs. Deadpool or something like this.

James:

Lady

Lily:

Lady Deadpool. Well, the thing that I clucked was apparently some of the criticism that she's received has been about the fact that the subject matter of this film is quite serious and that she's been taking it quite lightly by making it about the fact that the main character works in a flower shop and she's wearing these floral dresses to all the press events. And I just thought, my god, you know, Margot Robbie and Barbie made that a thing for the red carpet, that you dress to reflect. I mean, of course people have done it for years, but Barbie really made it into, it's now you, every single

James:

Now it's a thing.

Lily:

Yeah, it's a huge thing. And she's just following that trend. So it seems a little bit, Harsh to me, that's all I will say. That's my only take on the Christmas myth. give the girl a break. She's just doing what everyone does on the red carpet, she doesn't even have a stylist. How is she going to pick all these outfits? Just send me the florals, send me the florals.

James:

I can't believe we've talked about a story. We're not going to talk about for so long. Let's skim over the important news then.

Lily:

Go on, go on.

James:

Well, I I'm just kind of following with just cause it's, I guess, loosely the industry, I either work in. Or I'm interested in is just like what's happening in Hollywood. You know, what's happening to the provider of for decades. What's been the kind of Western diet of film production. And so long story short, it's kind of imploding because the studios chase streaming and they've all made lots of losses. So now they're hurriedly trying to cut costs, save money, tighten the belt. Just get back to profitability and they're way off. But Warner brothers announced, last week or the week before that they are investing, nearly 9 billion in a Nevada based Warner brothers studio, which I think is a direct consequence of them losing lots of money in streaming and the new contracts that were created with the actors due to the strikes. Increasing production costs, they're just looking to decrease the bottom line. So get out of Hollywood where everything is expensive, move to a new state, where they're not well known for, making TV and film, but I guess they've got some kind of infrastructure there that they can grow. But the point is they're moving there for tax breaks and cause the cost of living is cheaper.

Lily:

Right. And when you told me about this, I thought, that sounds great. Cause to be honest, I'd just been reading more about the investigation into Matthew Perry and his death and all these arrests. And, the takeaway, if you, if you know anything about that, it seems to be that my God is Hollywood and incredibly toxic place and the culture around celebrity. Celebrity. It's so bad. Okay. That's a bit extraneous, but my just feeling was like, you know, when, when, yeah, when an industry is so concentrated in one place, I don't think that helps. And it's, you know, you look at places, was it in Wales that Game of Thrones was filmed

James:

was in Ireland

Lily:

Okay, cool. Well, I know that the impact on the local economy was huge and amazing. so to my mind, that sounds like a good thing, but I know you have some reservations about this move.

James:

My reservations are purely when it comes down to it as a consumer is the quality of what I'm going to pay money for in the future going to get better or worse. Getting out of Hollywood is no bad idea, but I don't think these moves are made for any kind of, mental health, wellbeing, I just think they're bottom line. My suspicion is that they may be doing a shift towards what they call non union crews. Cause when we talk about these strikes happening in America, they're very much just for union crews. And just to make this very clear, there are union and non union crews in America. The main thing is you can't have non union crew. On a union shoot that they can't mix. So it's almost like there's a tiered system. To get into the union requires many more hoops and lots of sacrifices to get into, to get sponsored, to get nominated, to get access. Non union, you don't have to go through that, so the idea is that a non union, whether it's true or not, may not be as the same quality, but certainly they don't have as good pay and they don't have as good conditions as the union crew in California.

Lily:

that's terrible. If that is part of the reason they're moving for sure.

James:

They haven't said that, by the way. That's me reading between the lines. That's me kind of figuring out what's going on.

Lily:

But this is news to me because I thought the unions are to support any person working in the industry, right? Don't you just pay, you just pay to be a member?

James:

Unions are only negotiating for people within the union.

Lily:

no, no, no. But what I'm saying is in order to join a union, I was under the impression that, you need to prove that you are working. But this idea that you have to go through these hoops and you have to make sacrifices. What do you mean by that?

James:

well, I mean, again, if anybody's in the industry, you can give us a clue, talk us through it. I would love to know, but my understanding is to get your union, like, I don't know your permit or your pass, you have to, you have to have worked on a number of union shoots, not non union shoots. So to get onto a non union shoot, when you're not a union member means you normally have to take internship roles Whereas you don't have to do that to get into a non union crew.

Lily:

Interesting. Well, it will be interesting to see it. Look, I, I understand what you're saying, that it's concerning what is the cost to the production if you're doing this cost cutting. Staff, but I will say that if your money is able to go further, then actually you hopefully would have more money for things like good writers and, and, you know, so I think, I don't think it's bad for the quality of a film if you film somewhere cheaper, you know, low budget movies. are often the best movies, you know, for, the more money there is in a film, often the more control there is from the studio. And obviously this is Warner Brothers. So it doesn't automatically mean. It's going to make bad quality films, but I hear what you're saying about in general, the quality of crew and experience and Yeah, it doesn't bode well.

James:

I just get the feeling that the Nevada studio will be there. Like the, we're going back to almost like the A pictures and the B pictures. You have your Hollywood studio where you make the expensive big ones. Then we're we're making this TV show and you've got to do it on the cheap. Off to the Nevada studio, perhaps. And maybe that'll be good incubator for new talent. You can't just up and shift an industry from one part of the country to the, it looks good on a spreadsheet to know that you're going to save 25%, but the reality is do people want to move their careers there? Are you going to get the talent to move there and all that kind of stuff.

Lily:

It will be interesting to see, but just guys keep an eye out for that. Let's see what Warner brothers does over the next few years.

James:

Let's see how that all plays out.

Lily:

Well, Let's get into it then. So for this episode, we've got an interesting subject matter that was actually James's idea. So I'm going to let you introduce it. What are we talking about this week, James?

James:

We are talking about films directed by women directors in, in the Hollywood system and films that wouldn't classically be called quote unquote women's films that, you know, they're films that you could, you could imagine a male director would have directed, I, in my head, I categorize it as like, they're getting to play with the boys toys. And this is kind of what connects them together. And I've been looking to try, because we like to do films, when we do these things, we look at three films usually. So I just wanted to find three solid films that have definitely passed the test of time. they're still relevant and important films for differing degrees now. And films that I think made money or did well, you know, so I think by any metric, you can say these were successful films.

Lily:

Totally. Yeah, I love it. It's a very, it's a very good subject. So this week we are talking about Wayne's World, American Psycho and Point Break. Now you probably know that Point Break was made by Kathryn Bigelow if you've heard of this film, but I, I think most people would probably be surprised to hear that American Psycho and Wayne's World were made by women. So.

James:

Yeah.

Lily:

So stick that in your pipe.

James:

I, you know, I gotta say, I think this might be, for me, the most enjoyable three films we've watched. They're all, in different ways, very good films.

Lily:

Yeah, it was totally, and all very different. So it was quite fun trio to watch. but yeah, I think that generally, women aren't really allowed, like, are rarely given the opportunity to make these kinds of films. And so it was hard for us to find because the point was you wanted it to be blockbuster films or super successful and films that are very well known mainstream movies, you know,

James:

They've passed into the pop

Lily:

exactly because yeah, that you know, there's so many great women directors who are lesser known, and have made amazing films that perhaps are less recognizable. But I think most people have at least heard of all these films if they haven't watched them. So let's get into it. So we're starting off with the, with the funnest one, I would argue, Waynesworld, which can I just tell you, James, I love that you chose that because actually this is like, this was one of my favorite films as a teenager. So me and my best friend at school, Amy, we watched this movie and became obsessed with it and loved it and quoted it, watched it many times. Yeah. We, we were like, we are, we are Wayne and Garth, you know, we are this duo.

James:

It wasn't really part of my childhood. It was big when I was a kid, but it was the classic case of everyone loved it at school. So I didn't, I mean, it was simplistic and as stupid as it always is. But yeah, so I think I might've watched it when I went, when it was like on a house party, but I've never sat down and give it my full attention. So yeah, this was a first. I was more Bill and Ted than I was Wayne's World.

Lily:

Right, which links us with Point Break, but uh, but we'll, we'll come back to Keanu Reeves later. So Waynesworld came out in 1992 and something I didn't actually know was that it was based on a SNL sketch and they'd, you know, I've done a few of these movies based on sketches, and it was a big success with Blues Brothers, but most of the others haven't really worked, but Wayne's World was huge, it is the most successful film based on a sketch,

James:

There was like Coneheads, I think was another one, um, and something like Two Nights at the Roxbury, I'm not sure, but yeah, there was a few films around that time where they tried to take a sketch and turn it into a film, but most of them just don't work because, The problem is how do you expand into a 90 to two hour feature, like a five minute weekly sketch. And I have to say with Way Into World, they nail it. They absolutely managed to take those characters, which not really having watched SNL sketch, but you can tell from the film that it's them in their basement, like a cable TV free little access show, but they managed to make it the world around them. The characters come out of that bedroom and they still feel like the characters, they do things that they, I don't know, they feel a little bit rounded, there's enough to sustain a film.

Lily:

Yeah. And I think a big part of it is that, the story is about two friends, Wayne and Garth, who have a public access TV show. So it's kind of, it's, it's sort of poking fun at this particular moment in, American culture and history in the kind of late eighties, early nineties, when this, you could make, your own TV show. I mean, it's sort of a precursor to what we have now. It's kind of wild.

James:

This never really took off in England because the way our TV landscape is, we don't have this kind of free to air public access where there's no budget for anything and people are essentially encouraged to send them free content. So it's, it's something that's very uniquely American, I think. But nowadays, you, if you were going to make this film again, it'd be two YouTubers, wouldn't it?

Lily:

Yeah, but I think the genius of it is sort of laughing at them for being a bit shit and people liking them for being shit. And I think, you know, the way YouTubers and people on TikTok create content now, it's, it's too good. It's too good to work. but I think part of what worked, why it kind of expands so well into a full film is because a lot of it is making fun of the content. It's like a mockumentary where the Wayne, Mike Myers character Wayne is kind of talking to the camera as his Garth and they're kind of poking that, light of all of that.

James:

they're aware that they're in a film. And I have to say, I do love the fourth wall breaks. Wayne and Garth both do the fourth wall breaks differently. With Garth, he's much more nervous and more of an introvert. He's much shyer. there'll be moments where you realize he's trying to get your attention as the viewer, as Wayne's much more confident, he will directly address the camera. So even those moments of like breaking the fourth wall, they're all done very imaginatively.

Lily:

Yeah.

James:

spin on them.

Lily:

Yeah. Yeah. But let's talk about the director. Let's talk Spearis. So, so she got her start in. rock documentaries.

James:

Yeah. She was tapped to direct the Spinal Tap movie, but she turned it down. She's got this rock documentary background, which means she spent time with real life rockers, rock fans, you know, but you know, she was immersed in this world.

Lily:

Yeah, and that was why they chose because that's the other aspect of Wayne and Garth's characters is that they're heavy metal fans, they're musicians themselves, and really part of this whole world is a kind of a This is a documentary about these two music obsessed TV makers. So we want a director who understands the reality of that in order to poke fun of it. It's quite clever.

James:

it is quite clever because it means their world is treated with respect, we see the world as they see it, they're really into this rock music and this lifestyle, you know, and, and I think, That that is part of what Penelope Spheeris brings to the role as a director. there's an element of, yes, we're having a laugh, but We're respecting their world

Lily:

Yeah, yeah,

James:

And just reading about Penelope Spheeris background. I mean, her mother and her father both worked in the carnival. the, the father was almost like the master of ceremonies and the mother worked in the box office. So she spent her early years traveling around America as part of a carnival. I think that that was. Killed in some dispute. So she lost a father at a young age. So very, very unconventional, background as a director. She was raised by a mother, basically, uh, with her and a sibling. So she did not have much money. She worked as a waitress while she put herself through film school. So she's self funded her directorial career.

Lily:

I've read in interviews, her talk about what a struggle it was up until this point, was pushing through, but It was really tough going for her until she got Waynesworld and then after that really, and that was, I think she was like around 46 at that point and that really kind of catapulted her career. But, and we have to talk about the fact that she wasn't asked to make Waynesworld 2 despite the fact that Waynesworld was a huge success, which apparently was down to the fact that Mike Myers didn't like her final cut of Waynesworld and so blocked her from doing it. working on the second film because they already had started working on it before they finished the first one. Test screenings had been really successful. Mike Myers wasn't there for the test screenings. His father sadly died at that point, so he had to leave for his funeral. Didn't see the test screenings, had loads of notes, loads of changes. Penelope Spears pushed back on that and said, No, no, we've got to keep it as it is. It's done really well. so he blocked her doing the second film and second film is really not as good as the first.

James:

Classic sequel

Lily:

Yeah, I've seen it and it's fun. it's got all the same elements, but it just doesn't have that sparkle and it's just not as smart. You know, I, I do think, obviously Mike Myers is a very talented comedian and super intelligent, but I think actually that combination really. Made that first film work. So well, it was so tight. It was so funny. and I think, it was a huge loss to that second film. It could have really done with her.

James:

Yeah, I was reading it. I mean, in general, he's a difficult man to work with, seems to be the gist of working with Mike Myers. And yeah, he didn't help her out or her career at

Lily:

Yeah. And I think, okay, big stars who have sway and obviously he was the writer as well and the creator of Wayne and Garth. So of course he would have sway, but I do think that often with Male directors, other people support them more at the studio, you know, so if someone's trying to get them pushed out, they often get more backing. Whereas so often it's the case that women directors have just dropped completely

James:

he could have been supportive for sure. he would not have been unaware of how unusual it was to have a woman director helming these projects. So it's a shame that he didn't use that in any way because the film is good. The film is clearly well directed. Whatever issues they had with each other, it was personality clash. There was no quality issue. I don't, I don't think.

Lily:

I think it's a perfect funny film. It just zips along. you know, I've watched this movie. I don't know how many times. So, and re watching it again, I was completely engaged, you know, I never looked at my phone, which these days tells you a lot,

James:

I, I loved Wayne's World. I had a hoot. I was saving it for like, uh, an evening. You know, I wanted it to be a night time viewing because that's the time you're meant to watch it. My feeling is that, these three films is almost like a, of an excellent example of this kind of genre. So this is an excellent example of like a goofy, stupid comedy because I've seen Terrible examples of this. as much as it's silly and goofy, it's really well done. All the choices are like the best choices you could make. I noticed that with all three of these films.

Lily:

It's very difficult to pass out who contributed to what in terms of the tone of the film. But what I really like about it is that it's a very intelligent comedy, but it's very kind and soft. A lot of the jokes are about the fact that both Wayne and Garth are pretty kind of beta men who are very soft and cute about the women that they fancy, you know, okay, there's this like swing thing, but it's pretty it's pretty in it. It's so ridiculous and silly. And they're like, oh, my gosh, she's amazing. Oh, you know that they're very, very cute. There isn't this feeling of leeriness about their attraction to the women in the film. The women are, well, Garth's love and interest is perhaps not fully three dimensional. But, Cassandra, played by Tia Carrere, She is a very well, fully formed character. A much stronger character than Wayne's character in many ways. what I think is quite nice is that, You know, they date, and it's quite easy, them getting together, but you don't, there isn't a sex scene. There's only one kiss, briefly, at the end. I, like, that

James:

Well, there's the gratuitous sex scene where it comes up with the title

Lily:

But they literally, you don't, you know, they're not even kissing in it, you know, they're just sort of weirdly like that. it makes light of everything, but without this like harsh misogynistic edge, which to be honest, a lot of comedy does have. And I do wonder if a male director had made that film, if it had been different. He might've pushed it a bit more, So I really appreciate that in the direction, I think.

James:

Yeah, I, I was thinking that when I was watching the film actually, especially with Garth, cause, I've maybe only seen this film once. I only know the very basic outline of what they're like as characters. And I hadn't appreciated that Garth's very clearly much more of an introverted character. He's much more of a quote, unquote, like technical nerd. He's like into building things. And, I like the fact that they, yeah, you said they're very kind to me. It's not. Cruelly done, I can't quite put my finger on it, but we're not really laughing at him so much. The fact that he's a nerd, he happens to be that kind of character. And he's treated with a bit more kindness. nonjudgmental really.

Lily:

I think that's partly why these films endure. you end feeling good about it. And you're feeling warm about your reaction to everyone in the film because you like them. And I, I think actually this does, link with Point Break. Because. Similarly with Point Break, which we're going to speak about, There is a definite kind of softness to how Keanu Reeves and Patrick Swayze's characters react to each other, right? It's more than just a bromance there is something in their dynamic, like a little bit more, do you know what I'm saying?

James:

I know what you're saying. I mean, with, with Point Break, it's, it's much more clear that it's homoerotic subtext. But when I was watching this film, I was thinking, this is the closest that subtext is to text.

Lily:

but I wonder if someone else had done the treatment on this film, if that would have been so at the fore, and I think that is partly why Point Break has endured so well, the weird complexity to the film, even though so much of the film is kind of simple and almost a little bit stupid. But we'll get on to that in a moment. Okay, so before we get to point break, because we have a lot of thoughts on that, we're going to save it to the last, like it's pudding. American Psycho, James. This was my contribution to that. Had you seen it before?

James:

I've seen it once before and it was quite a few years after it come out. It was a stupid thing where, ah, this is so stupid. I was like, oh, it's a psycho killer film. I'm not interested. Blah, blah, blah. Of course, it's not that at all, but it is that. it's a very, it's a much more interesting film than if you just think it's a film about a serial killer and that's it. You kind of missed the point. So that was why it didn't come up on my radar. Then I watched it and realized how great it is. But it's one that I haven't watched since. So I was really looking forward to rewatching it. And again, a film that's aged incredibly well, that's got a lot to say it's very violent, but only in an incredibly short burst and the violence has a point, you know, which is if you're going to put violence in, make it effective as in it's violent, but also make it have a point in the story.

Lily:

This is my kind of horror film. If you can, if you can even call it that.

James:

To me, this is like, Study, an absolute, one of the best antiheroes or antagonists. One of the best absolutely unlikable characters that you are forced to watch a film with There's no, there's no getting away from him. They are the main character of the film.

Lily:

Totally, totally.. So it came out in 2000, which, with all these films that we're talking about, the other two came out 90, 91, 92 and 2000, but I'm, sort of counting 2000 in the same decade

James:

Yeah. I mean, it was made in the nineties and it was developed throughout the

Lily:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's still, I do think 2000, you know, pre 9 11. I think of that time period is the same before, you know, when there was, when we were interesting time, I think, for film, but I mean, we've talked about the 90s, an amazing time for film interesting things are being made on a big budget,

James:

This was kind of like classic indie style American budget, wasn't it? So it's under 10 million, made 35 million. Everybody's happy there. Um, yeah. the evolution of the project as well. It was considered an unfilmable book and it got passed around a bit. Mary Hannan, the director, got involved quite early on and, that included a writer Guinevere Turner to kind of work on the script, but then, the producers wanted Brad Pitt or something ridiculous. Mary Hannum was like, no, I'm not doing this. I want, I want, um,

Lily:

DiCaprio, I think, or maybe

James:

sorry.

Lily:

coming off

James:

It was

Lily:

off the back of Titanic.

James:

That's right. And, and, and so they, they wanted Leo the man of the moment. Mary Han absolutely did not want you to stick with Christian Bale. So she left the project. Oliver Stone came on board to direct it now. Ditched the script that they've been working on. This all didn't work out because those are not good reasons to get somebody on board your project. Mary Hannan came back and, uh, they still didn't want Christian Bale, but she knew that they'd asked her back so that she eventually she'd be able to win them round. watching Christian Bale in that, film, you can see that Christopher Nolan was like, yep, he looks good in a suit. He can be my Batman. But he's born for the role of American Psycho.

Lily:

Absolutely is. But he, at that point, wasn't that well known. So the studio was looking for a bigger name. Because the thing is that American Psycho, the book by Brett Easton Ellis had come out in the eighties and it was. A hugely well known book because it was incredibly controversial. Feminist groups and scholars, really took against it. It's a very, very unfeminist book. And it's interesting because Brett Eason Ellis has said that, no, it was a feminist book. The point of it, I was trying to write a feminist book. And I haven't read the book, but from what I hear, it's, again, the, the violence is, very graphically described. And I do think that, yeah, and I do think that books get into your bones more than film. I don't know why, but there's some way you can kind of tune out of something you're seeing, but when you're reading words,

James:

And the words are in your head.

Lily:

exactly. So I can imagine that. He may have, I won't want to say fail, but maybe didn't quite succeed in what the film absolutely, I think does succeed in like to be, this is an incredibly feminist film and it was smart of them. Okay. it was a battle for Mary Harron to get it, but only really a woman could have made this film. Well, made the film that we have that, you know, it makes sense for her to have made this film because. You need, I think, that distance from the subject because really, I mean, again, I haven't read the book, but what this film is about is male vanity and what it is to be a man in kind of late 80s, late capitalism, you know, it's, it's so much of it is about this culture in this world that he is a part of as a guy working in finance and in that world, how, Women are completely sidelined and, disposable. And I do think it really helps that a very smart and very feminist filmmaker. I mean, she, she directed I shot Andy Warhol before that. So,

James:

which I remember that coming out at the time I shot Andy Warhol and was, I thought that's a, it's a great film, that

Lily:

yeah,

James:

feature film. but it is a takedown exactly of that time and of toxic masculinity, but it is also just. The, the satire, it works so well because I think right now I've just happened to be going through a true crime, um, hyperfixation, so I'm reading lots of stuff about psychopaths, and, I mean, again, what can I say,

Lily:

you and Mary have a lot in common because apparently she's very, she was always very preoccupied with psychopaths.

James:

Because, because, because what you're seeing on screen, um, is, is just, The textbook psychopath of the unadorned psychopath and what I think the film really highlights is that he doesn't even have to hide. He's there in clubs telling the barmaid he wants to, you know, kill them, rip their skin from their bones or something. He'll mention it in passing but nobody's listening. And in fact the whole point of the film is he literally cannot even get people to arrest him, And it only just clicked this whole thing about the murder of Paul Allen. There's a character amazingly played by Jared Leto, who I understand was originally in the ring to play Patrick Bateman. So perfect casting is essentially this Patrick Bateman clone. But the whole thing, I'd never noticed in the film that paul Allen is mistaking Patrick Bateman for somebody else, and I didn't realize in the film that, that Patrick Bateman has mistaken this guy played by Jared Leto for Paul Allen. It's not Paul Allen, and I don't think anybody in the film knows who Paul Allen is. I think the whole joke is, because somebody says to him, I had dinner with Paul Allen in Spain last week. Everybody thinks somebody else is Paul Allen, so whoever Jared Leto is, he was just some guy. And that, that clicked, it made me realize the facelessness of it all. But. The fact that an unadorned sociopath can run around in this environment and essentially he can't even turn himself in.

Lily:

I watched an interview with Mary Harron where she talked about how she felt like she slightly failed with the ending because a lot of people interpret the ending as basically it was all a dream and he wasn't really doing these things And And that was not, that was definitely not the point she was, but I, thought that maybe was what they were trying to do. I definitely get that impression from it, but it's not totally clear. It is a bit ambiguous, but I get a bit, it does it set points. It does seem that way because he really, really cracks up at the very end. And I thought that was quite interesting because yeah, no, it wasn't meant to be that he absolutely did do the violent things that you see. It's just ambiguous about what exactly is going on in his world, but she didn't want it to seem like it was all a dream. And he's, not the psychopath that we see him to be in that film. And similarly, part of the reason. Mary Harron really wanted Christian Bale for the role, besides the fact that he's an incredibly talented actor. And I have to say, I find him a little bit irritating in general, but watching him in this, I'm like, God, no, he is an absolute, he is probably the best actor out there. He is amazing. part of the reason she really liked him was because, They had the same dark, sick sense of humor, but also he did not like Patrick Bateman. He thought he was, a sick man and there was nothing redeemable about him. Whereas a lot of the other actors that married Harren. auditioned quite light Patrick, or at least thought he was cool. I thought that was very interesting. And, and I got that impression in the same interview, which talked about the, Christian Bell's also being interviewed and he was asked, you know, what did you, what did you like and what did you relate to in him? And he was like, absolutely. Nothing, you know, he was very interested in paying someone who was just a, a complete monster. And that was why he didn't want any backstory. He didn't want any context to this guy. He just, you know, he's just a monster acting in this very fucked up world that like you say, you can just live in if you've got money and no one will stop you doing what you want to do.

James:

I read an article where she was talking about the same thing there's this idea that there needs to be backstory to motivate a sociopath and as she says in this article, the words, the effect of, it doesn't need to be one, there's many, many sociopaths who don't have any backstory that you might say, aha, that's why they did it. It's not important. and I think that, um, choice that Christian Bale does where, yeah, he doesn't see Patrick Bateman as a hero. He despises him, which I think allows him to really play him as a despicable character. You know, within minutes you don't like him. I love the fact that, uh, the first kind of group chat we have, where he's with his guys mates. He's the guy saying, Hey, uh, leave off the antisemitism. You know, he's saying the liberal things that a good guy might say. Then he goes to the bar and, Tells the barmaid he's gonna fucking murder her and that's brutal, know, it's it's unforgiving there's no anything to take the edge off. It's it's it's horrific

Lily:

That tone of voice he uses where he says that line about cool it with the antisemitism. It's the same tone in which he talks about how, Oh, we've got to help this planet and cure poverty. And, you know, again, he always has this, whenever he's saying anything that the words are correct, he says it in this weird, Delivery this like robotic almost, you know, hi, I'm a guy on the TV selling you something. Yeah, he's completely cold underneath and the only time you ever see him feel anything is when he's been given someone's card and it's better than his. And he's literally breaking out of the sweat and like devastated, you know,

James:

and

Lily:

the level, this is where his

James:

like, with most on film serial killers, they'll usually have some patter or some rehearsed lines or some ritualistic behavior before the kill. And I love that With Patrick Bateman, it is discussing the most vacuous pop, be it Whitney Houston, Huey Lewis and the News. His pre kill ritual is to discuss the merits of some really empty American pop. And I just, again, just sums him up. Here we have a very mundane, no real insights, just very surface level discussion of pop music.

Lily:

And it's always the wrong thing, right? who thinks that Genesis was better after Phil Collins moved to the front of the stage?

James:

yeah, I forgot that.

Lily:

It's iconic. Totally.

James:

he's totally buying into the 80s, isn't he, I guess.

Lily:

Because he is to completely surface and

James:

Mm.

Lily:

This is a kind of 80s, this very moneyed, 80s where surface is everything, you know, his girlfriend is just the same who he disposes, you know, she doesn't, she doesn't care who he is as a person. She doesn't know him. She just likes having an attractive, wealthy fiance. It's all surface in that world. It's so, it's so perfect. And even in this, in our kind of setup of this, of course, There's a certain implication, I guess, about what a woman versus a man can bring to a film. And of course, I mean, it's like, that's such a limited idea, you know, people are people, but I just really love that. Mary Harron just really, I think got those sorts of material and got how to make it into a really, really successful film. And apparently Brett Easton Ellis in recent years has been quite critical American. It's like, even though at the time he loved it, he was really pleased with it. It was one of the first adaptations of his books that he actually liked. But in recent years, he's being a bit critical and I do wonder if it's because the film succeeded where he failed, you know, what I said before about him wanting to make a feminist story and maybe it doesn't work quite so well in the book form, but the film I do think works perfectly. And even like you said, with the violence, yes, it's there. It is violent, but sort of like with Chex's chainsaw massacre, which actually referenced in the film, he's watching it in one particular scene while he's doing his workout. you almost see it, but you don't ever actually see the violence. It always cuts just at that moment, and it's very contained. It does what it needs to do to tell the story, but it isn't, I don't think it's gratuitous ever.

James:

It has the intended effect, I think, that the movie violence is meant to have, which is meant to shock. It's meant to hit you, but you, you know, there's a reason for being shown as much as you need. And then it finishes.

Lily:

Okay, right, shall we move on to Point Break?

James:

Yes. Our, our Oscar winning director. I didn't realize until researching this, uh, Catherine Bigelow was the first woman to be awarded the Oscar for best director. Didn't realize she was the first.

Lily:

And that was for Zero Dark Thirty? I believe that she had been married to James Cameron. And, thank you, and that year he was nominated for Best Director for Avatar, and she beat him, which I, I mean, hopefully they have a very, they had a, You know, amicable breakup and, and they were happy for each other, but still I, I appreciated that.

James:

I think they do actually, I've just, I mean, only just from bits I've been reading research in this, but, the only film I think I've seen of Catherine Bigelow's before Watching Point Break was, uh, Strange Days, a science fiction thriller 1995, and that was an idea that, uh, James Cameron presented or gave to Catherine Bigelow as saying, hey, would you like to make this? So, uh, I imagine there must be some level of amicability you wouldn't make your ex husband's idea for a film six years after, or five years after you're divorced.

Lily:

Yeah. No, yeah. That's a good point. Oh, well, I love that for them. Good

James:

Heh heh. And also, Watching Point Break. I mean, I haven't seen it before because again, back in the day, it was like a cheesy action film. I would have labeled it. So not interested. Then I realized it was Catherine Bigelow. And I just thought, yeah, one day I'll watch it. Well, you know, now is that one day there was, I'm glad I saved it for you because, I was watching it thinking you could have told me this was directed by James Cameron, by one of the kind of bigger male directors of that period. And you, you wouldn't even hesitate to agree. Of This is a direct who loves directing these big. Muscular Hollywood films with action scenes, with car chasers, with foot chasers, with over the top characters spouting ridiculous dialogue, all of it lands. This is somebody who's gleefully playing with all the toys of making a big American film.

Lily:

The thing with point break, right? When it opens, you're kind of slapped in the face with all the tropes of big box office boys movies. You have a young upstart who's very, very good, but he's been given a tough time at, at police training because he's training to be in the FBI and it's, and then he gets into a kind of, um, Buddy dynamic with the older, cynical FBI guy who doesn't give a fuck and he won't, but he cares and he's, he's, he wants to make a name for himself and there's just a lot initially that seems So tropey, it's, it's a bit intense, but actually it's very, first of all, it's very watchable. So like it, it hits you, it it's a lot, but it's, it's, you can't deny it's entertaining to watch, but actually as the film goes on, you see that there's this like weird combination where it is, yeah, big budget and this plot is kind of ridiculous and stupid. I mean, we're talking about,

James:

It's like the highest of high concepts in a movie. Really

Lily:

so we're talking about Keanu Reeves character investigating a group of surfers who do bank robberies with these dead presidents rubber masks on their face and suits. So, very good look. I mean, it's super clever. That apparently was James Cameron's idea, by the way, the dead presidents. great working partnership them two before and after the divorce. Um, and yeah, just about him kind of infiltrating that gang and then trying to take them down and that even as a concept, you've got this like, dual narrative of these surfers who are at one with the wave and, and that's the thing, that's what's interesting

James:

Yeah, there's lots, there's lots, lots of talk about the philosophy and the mindset of a surfer.

Lily:

that's the thing that I find interesting. On the one hand, you've got the kind of big, dumb, over the top, high concept film and then also running alongside it is this interesting philosophical musing that both Patrick Swayze, you know, the leader of this gang and, you know. And Keanu Reeves characters are very infatuated with and that's where you get into the kind of the homoerotic element is that they both on the mental level. They really, really connect. They're both looking for this. They're trying to catch these where I don't really get the philosophy fully, but they want to be free, right? They want to be

James:

It's very much, cod philosophy, isn't it? It's all like about freedom, man, and against it. It's just like, just buzzwords. I don't quite follow it either. I was hoping maybe you would, but I was like, I don't quite get it. But it sounds very surfer doody though, doesn't it? Like a lot of hot air, really.

Lily:

A little bit, yeah, but I do think there's something, the way it's done is very smart and like, whether or not you really buy into what they, like, I think as a viewer, you are a bit cynical about what it is that they buy into, but I believe that they believe it, do you know what I mean? And it's, it's done in a smart way, like it all zips along, you're like, I'm there, I'm with it. it's, it's impressive.

James:

The whole film zips along again. This is a really well made high concept action film. It's one of the very best from this like late eighties, early nineties period, like no, no contest. the opening sequence where, um, kind of Reeves goes into the, the police agency's offices and he's chatting. He's been introduced by the kind of, uh, the, the captain who doesn't like this young upstart. And it's, it could have been out of Michael Mann's heat. It's like a one continuous. take and we see everything the camera zips around it like the choreography is immaculate. You know,

Lily:

A lot of it is like heat,

James:

yeah, it

Lily:

that dynamic as well between

James:

that like the bank robberies as well. Yeah, the, the two, the two antagonists, I hadn't even, God, why I didn't even thought that, but yeah, and even the, even the way that the bank heists, I mean, they're, they're, they're very kinetic, they're beautifully directed action sequences. Again, you

Lily:

Yeah,

James:

it.

Lily:

yeah, it's yeah, it's actually so like heat. It's literally heat on surfboards

James:

That is the pitch. God damn it. And it's a few years earlier than he, Oh my God. It's like four years before he,

Lily:

No, is it? Oh

James:

let me

Lily:

god. Yeah,

James:

sure he's 19, uh, 95. Yeah. And this is 91. There we go. I think somebody got some inspiration,

Lily:

god Catherine Bigelow isn't given enough props I know in the way she is, in a way she is because she, she's kind of the only really well known big blockbuster woman director,

James:

Yeah.

Lily:

but still, I mean, God, yeah, it's like, I was thinking it came after Heat. Oh my God,

James:

So did I when watching it. I just thought, oh, she's taking a few cues out of heat and then, no, no, as we're talking about it, absolutely, uh, uh, uh,

Lily:

Amazing, amazing. Yeah, but, but what I was gonna say was I think there's something about, I don't quite know, because as we're talking about it, the philosophy, the surfer philosophy does sound a little bit ridiculous, but I do think something about that gives it a bit more weight. It's not, like, more so than something, than like Top Gun or something. I know that that's also a big hit, but it just, It makes it have a bit more substance. You get more on board with the ridiculousness because I mean, there are points where they're jumping out, they're skydiving, like the set pieces in this film are completely absurd.

James:

If you like action films, this has got some of the best action, full stop.

Lily:

I'm just looking at my notes and I've put, I've, one of the things I wrote down was a quote. You've got to go down, Bodhi. This is what I mean. That was right at the end of the film. Some of the dialogue is course, you know, it's, it's

James:

love

Lily:

it's

James:

it. It's There's all these quips are going around like, which I can't even remember them. I just think these are great quips. Everything's just solidly done. It just suffuses the film with a bit of an extra, what the hell is going on here? But it, you know, like you, I might not be able to ex, express it clearly, but there's just something a bit extra that adds to the film all the way through it.

Lily:

Because I think there's a contradiction there, right? Between, you think of a surfer, you think of a surfer lifestyle. The idea is, it's, you're at one with nature. It's kind of thrill seeking, it's perhaps a little nihilistic, you don't really, you know, life is very much just about getting that thrill, being in the water, and generally the vibe is that this community doesn't, doesn't need for much, doesn't want a lot, so the idea that they are also bank robbers when, you know, very materialistic, But okay, there's a connection there because both things are thrill seeking and also both are quite realistic because if you want to make money bank robbing, it's a short term plan, you know, and a very high stakes, you know, it's not, it's not the smart man's strategy. Yeah.

James:

From watching Heat and Point Break, we've learned a few

Lily:

Exactly. On balance, I'm not sure I'm going to take it up as a, as a late life career, but you never know who knows. I was trying to find where this concept came from, where this idea, because I think it was an original script that was kind of doing the rounds in Hollywood point break with a different, I think at a terrible name, like,

James:

Johnny Utah

Lily:

right. Yes, yes. Rubbish. Because that's in Keanu Reeves character's name. But, rubbish tells you nothing. And then they change it to Riders on the Storm, like the Doors song. Which, I think is actually kind of good, but it's nothing on Point Break. Point Break is perfect. Point Break's perfect.

James:

doesn't sound action enough, does it? You

Lily:

And it also, again, like, it's a bit, there's not that much of a connection to the doors, there is a bit of the doors vibe, I have to say, to their apartment, like the surfer's flat, but I mean, whatever. Um,

James:

all the candles that have been lit

Lily:

exactly. I've had the exact same thought. Why are their candles unsupervised? It looks so dangerous in there. But

James:

kind of risk takers they

Lily:

that's it, they're thrill seekers. We like

James:

Yeah, man. Mm hmm.

Lily:

We get in the water. But I think, so basically, so this script was around, but then Catherine Bigelow and I with the help of James Cameron and her husband at the time, they rewrote the script and got it to where it, to what it became. And I think figuring out how you connect these two things, how you resolve that contradiction. And actually it's not really resolved as such, but it's an interesting thing that these guys are so realistic. They give So few fucks about society that they're happy to just, you know, risk hurting other people and themselves to get money in order to keep going with their lifestyle, with with their thrill seeking life. And ultimately, Bodhi is so near less so that he doesn't even care about his own life. I will say no more about that because I don't want to spoil it for you guys in case you haven't seen it. But it's, I think it's interesting that that is the heart of the film. It gives

James:

Yeah,

Lily:

weight.

James:

It makes it stand out a little bit from its contemporaries. Uh, this isn't directly related to Point Break, but it was more about, James Cameron and Catherine Bigelow's working collaboration when they were working on Strange Days, which was James Cameron's ideas. Catherine Bigelow made it into a feature in 95. They split the tasks between them when they were developing the idea. And it was James Cameron who concentrated on the central romance of the film and Catherine Bigelow who developed the action sequences, which, you know, is a slight inversion of what you, where you might imagine, each task might be assigned.

Lily:

And that is clearly Katherine Bigelow's talent. She's so good at action sequences, even just that chase scene when, Keanu Reeves character is like running. Yeah, exactly.

James:

chases are notoriously hard to do because you can't run that fast, right? Cars, you can swing around corners, but to get a foot chase looking good on cinema, there's not that many. I'd say this is right up there with Baby Driver by Edgar Wright.

Lily:

And to be honest, I find a lot of foot chases quite boring after a while. I'm like, just get where you want to go.

James:

you've really got to work hard directing them to make them feel exciting.

Lily:

yeah, but it was interesting when doing my research about this film, I saw quite a few articles talking about how, um, this is the female gaze on toxic masculinity, or this brings feminine, a feminine perspective. And I have to say I don't agree with that at all. I feel like this film is male gaze y. This film is very much in keeping with every other action movie. You know, there's a bit of gratuitous nudity of random, you know, Sexy women and like that there isn't, I don't, I don't think this film is like feminist in that sense,

James:

I think it's the male done well. It's as classy as the male gaze can do. I think it's Catherine Bigelow going, Okay, I'll give the boys what they want, but I'm doing

Lily:

I'm not saying that so much as a criticism. It's more of a, an observation about what we imbue women directors with even when that's not really what they're doing. Like, I don't think that's what she's after. She wanted to make an exciting. Thrilling action movie,

James:

money that made bank, baby!

Lily:

She wasn't looking to do away with all of these classic elements of the genre, but she does them in a very good way. But mixes in this interesting additional element, like we talked about the philosophy of the whole thing and these contradictions. So she like takes it to another level. But you're right, yeah, no, it doesn't. The action is always the center of it.

James:

you is, yeah, it's an action film. It's a high concept action film. It never forgets. That's what it is.

Lily:

All right, well, to conclude, as I mentioned at the show, this is our final episode of the season, we, don't worry, we will be back. We will be back. TBC when exactly, but we thought we would finish off by leaving with you a few recommendations for the autumn because there are lots of exciting films coming out that we, we're not going to be talking about, unfortunately. Well, maybe we will, maybe we'll come back to them. But anyway, James, Why don't you start us off? What are you excited about that's coming out in the next couple of months?

James:

Uh, well, I have to be honest with you, it was pretty slim pickings when I was looking at what's coming up. We're, so, so, these are just, uh, The ones that I could find that I think, uh, I'm definitely going to be seeing, watching. So the first one is Joker Feuille a Deux, uh, The Madness of Two, as it turns out, which is a French term for a kind of a particular kind of sociopathy. Um, anyway, the Joker, the Joker sequel, um, I'm interested in seeing it because I liked the first one. Didn't love it. Like the first one. The fact that this is a sequel with Lady Gaga as co lead. Very interesting. And the final thing that I was like, okay, now I'm a bit excited. I went to see another film at the IMAX and, uh, the trailer came on and it had sequences in the full height IMAX format. And I was like, oh shit, they've shot this specifically for IMAX like Dune part one and two. So my question to you, Lily, is where's the only screen in London you could see it in this 1. 43 full IMAX. Don't rush into this. It's 1. 43, which is the square like Oppenheimer. It fills the entire square frame.

Lily:

BFI, but is that wrong?

James:

It, it is, yeah, because the BFI has only got a 1. 9 IMAX. It doesn't go, it goes more widescreen than it goes high. So the only theatre in London that has the square IMAX can project. You, I, I don't think you

Lily:

Oh the, Science I was gonna say I was gonna say that next Actually, I have been to the science museum. IMAX when I was a child. I watched something about dinosaurs I

James:

for Joker part two, the science music, which is not great seating. I've got to be honest. I'm not going to push this one that hard. The seating is a hard sell in the science museum, but I will. Second recommendation, skip the 1. 43 sequences, go straight to Dolby Theatre, because the music will sound phenomenal in Dolby Theatre.

Lily:

But just be careful about your choice of Dolby Theatre because some of them are absolutely huge and you'll end up being really, really far away from the screen like I was when I saw Dune Part Two for the second time.

James:

That's, that's only one Dolby Theatre in the entire world, I'd say that's the only one that's out of spec. So yeah, Leicester Square, Dolby Theatre, no, no. And my other film, um, is, uh, The Substance, which is, I keep seeking scene advertisements for that on my Mubi. It seems to be some kind of body horror about some serum that makes you younger, starring, Demi Moore.

Lily:

oh, oh, I love Demi Moore. She's so cool. Okay, I have not, I don't, I want to be served that stuff. Why am I getting all this bollocks about Blake Lively? I want to see what's coming out on movie.

James:

You don't want to see what's on my recommended list, Lily, you know, I'm selective in what I'm telling you comes up there.

Lily:

Okay, so for me, I'm very intrigued to see the new Beetlejuice movie, Beetlejuice Beetlejuice.

James:

Oh yeah.

Lily:

I'm not sure the site says, I'm not sure about it, but I do think it's quite cool. I've seen that there's been this guerrilla marketing around London. I was on the tube the other day. And there was this poster that looked like it was a flyer from the 80s that said Bealschutz, Bealschutz. I think it was like, like very reminiscent of the first film. And that was all it said on it. It kind of had this like, you know, illustration and, and I just thought that was quite cool. They've been quite thoughtful about the way they're doing this reboot. I know it's like yet another, um, you know,

James:

Reboot, sequel,

Lily:

thing,

James:

blah.

Lily:

especially because Michael Keaton and Winona Ryder are reprising their roles. So.

James:

And Tim Burton's back directing. So it's, it's got the best chance of it not being disappointed, but I, I've never seen the first one. I just, so my feeling is just where we are right now with the industry. I, I don't have great hopes.

Lily:

Well, yeah, I'm, I'm not sure but I, I, I'm going to go see it and I'll be interested to see. Um, the other thing that's coming out in September that I'm quite interested to see is called In Camera. And this is a debut film by a director called Nakash Khalid. And It sounds really cool. It's like a, it's like a satire about the casting business. And kind of looks at that and also the treatment of actors of colour. It's meant to be really, really brutal but kind of quite smartly done. So, I, I really want to see that. And then the other film that I have to say I'm excited to see is, Mm, uh, whatever, whatever. Gladiator

James:

Just a wild guess. No,

Lily:

yeah.

James:

no, no, absolutely no.

Lily:

Yes! Come on. You know that I enjoyed Napoleon last year. Okay, look, I have my misgivings about Ridley Scott, of course. He is questionable at best. But, it's Paul Mascow, it's Denzel Washington, it's Pedro Pascal. I think it'll be fun. I'm up for a big blockbuster. I'll see it in IMAX, why not? I'm getting some popcorn in. It's gonna be great.

James:

Until I saw the trailer, that's what I was thinking. I was thinking. Exactly that. But then I saw the trailer and that actually put me off just, I just didn't realize it. It's just Gladiator one. It's just that they've just changed some of the casting and,

Lily:

They did that with Terminator and Terminator 2 a

James:

I know

Lily:

come on.

James:

I, I bloody knew that to You're gonna terminate me. Yeah, but come on, gladiator. I mean,'cause the, there was an original concept for Gladiator two, which was gonna be following Maximus. In Hades in hell. That sounds interesting, but this is just, so I'll, I will leave you to go see it. And if you say it's good, I will go see it, but I suspect it'll just be blah.

Lily:

Yeah, I'm, I don't have high hopes, really. But, I'm still looking forward to seeing, I'm looking forward to seeing Paul Metzger with a, with a, With a sort of RP accent, because it sounded from the trailer like he does, it's a bit shaky. And I always enjoy that. I enjoy a shaky accent. You know, in a, in a silly blockbuster, that's entertaining. Obviously it's distracting in a film you actually care about being believable. But for this, I'm excited about it.

James:

So, so when's that coming out?

Lily:

Uh, in November, I'm not sure the exact date. But yeah.

James:

I, I feel almost gladiator two might just become the, the, the moment that the audience said enough, enough. Now you've got to stop just

Lily:

No way. No way, no way, no way. The, bolted. It's too late, James. We're never going back. I'm sorry. All right.

James:

Because

Lily:

Why do we always end on this note? I feel like every episode we're like talking about the doom and gleam of the industry. God, it's just

James:

sorry. And on that note

Lily:

And on that note, guys, thank you so much for listening to another season of Groovy Movies.

James:

Bloody hell, season four, absolutely. So if you could just leave us a like, or leave us a review, just to help get the podcast out to a bigger audience.

Lily:

We'll be back in a few months time. We'll, we'll trailer it so you'll know when we're back. But until then, have a lovely autumn. Enjoy those films. Let us know what you think about Gladiator 2 and we'll be back before you know it.

James:

Bye!

Lily:

Bye.